This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:02] Jennifer Apple: Hello. Welcome to this week's episode of the Empowered Artist Collective podcast. My name is Jennifer Apple, she/her, and this week is a super exciting week because I talk to Sarah Lampert, who is the writer, creator, and executive producer of the Netflix TV show Ginny & Georgia. If you had been watching Netflix when Ginny & Georgia dropped, you would have seen it appear in the top 10 for weeks and weeks and weeks on end. And Sarah breaks down with us on this episode her personal story as a writer, the journey of Ginny & Georgia specifically, some behind the scenes, the process in the writer's room, and most excitingly, she shares some incredible tools and tips for pitching generally and more specifically with her experience with Ginny & Georgia. Sarah's energy and exuberance is super contagious, and I cannot wait for you to listen to this episode. Enjoy.

[1:01] Jennifer Apple: Hi.

[1:03] Sarah Lampert: Hi.

[1:04] Jennifer Apple: Y'all, I'm with Sarah Lampert, who I went to college with. How, I mean, like, is it over 10 years ago now? Like I'm aging myself.

[1:12] Sarah Lampert: I know. I don't know.

[1:14] Jennifer Apple: I know. Feels like a hundred years ago.

[1:16] Sarah Lampert: Forever ago, and we're realizing we haven't seen each other in forever. Not that this is a visual medium, but um, I'm so pumped that you're here. And the world will know and kind of already does know who you are. But if they don't, who are you today for the audience listening?

[1:34] Sarah Lampert: Oh man, today, I guess today I'm still Sarah Lampert. I'm a writer. Um, I created Ginny & Georgia on Netflix.

[1:43] Jennifer Apple: Amazing. Um, I cannot wait to dive fully into that. I guess pre, like I wanna go back a moment to into the past many years that like we haven't known one another really. And just like before Ginny & Georgia became what Ginny & Georgia is, like how, what did you end up doing post when I kind of knew you? Like just like, uh, I knew just like short script.

[2:07] Sarah Lampert: Yeah, I mean, no, like because we went to college in Pennsylvania and like every, it was like a huge theater program.

[2:13] Jennifer Apple: Yes.

[2:14] Sarah Lampert: Um, and I knew I wanted to move to LA and I knew I wanted to be like a writer slash director, but what I didn't know like was the difference between TV and Broadway. I don't know, because I was 18 and a fucking moron. And also nobody taught, like nobody really like, yeah, like I didn't think about it that hard. Like I would, I was thinking like, oh, like what, like because I got into, I remember like deciding between Muhlenberg and Emerson and I got into, I ultimately went to Muhlenberg because they offered me a scholarship, but a big factor too was I was like, I don't know, like Emerson doesn't have a football team. I feel like I should be around like men playing football, even though I like never went to a game. My priorities were just different. That's all I'm saying. So anyways, like after graduation, as you know, moved to New York to do like theater. Like that's what Muhlenberg pumps people into.

[3:00] Jennifer Apple: Yeah.

[3:00] Sarah Lampert: And so I moved to LA and like I just like didn't know anybody. Did you move there because somebody had told you in like a little birdie in your ear, like this is where you go for TV and film, or was it something you always wanted to live West Coast?

[3:12] Sarah Lampert: I mean, I think that I kind of knew, like, I mean, you know, like LA, Hollywood, TV. Like, I think that was just like, oh, like I just didn't put it together that like where I went to school could potentially like help.

[3:24] Jennifer Apple: Yeah.

[3:25] Sarah Lampert: Like I just like wasn't thinking, like I wasn't connecting dots. It was just like, oh, where, like where should I go to school? Like, where has football players and whatever? It's too very stupid. And like of all, of all schools for football players? Like, like sorry, Muhlenberg, like this isn't, it's like degree.

[3:37] Jennifer Apple: Not even, no, also like I didn't go to like a single game and also like dated someone who I went to high school with the entire time in college. So really all of it very, very silly. Um, but I moved to LA um with, do you know Shera? She was my year.

[3:53] Sarah Lampert: I don't know.

[3:54] Jennifer Apple: She, uh, whom?

[3:55] Sarah Lampert: She Hoffman, no.

[3:57] Jennifer Apple: Sounds familiar, but also Jews.

[3:58] Sarah Lampert: So Jews, yeah, yeah, sure, sure. Um, anyways, I moved with her. We were roommates. She was like the one other person from, uh, LA. Now there are like a few Muhlenberg people out there, but my year, it was just the two of us. Um, and we moved out there. Whatever. Um, yeah, I just took, I had a bunch of jobs in the, in the eight years I was out there before I sold Ginny & Georgia. Um, I was a waitress. I was a, um, I did, I was an assistant for a few different reality TV producers.

[4:29] Sarah Lampert: Um, I worked in reality TV a lot.

[4:31] Jennifer Apple: Um, was it like, oh, this is a stepping stone, or what was that like?

[4:38] Sarah Lampert: Yeah, I didn't know like when you move out there, like I didn't know what to do. Like it, you just kind of do whatever is offered because it's not like it's really hard to find a job there if you don't know anyone. Um, so I kind of was just taking anything, but uh, yeah, I actually do really like reality TV. I mean, it's like primarily what I watch, so I was not bummed to be in reality TV, but I did know that it was gonna be harder to be a writer if I was in reality TV. That jump was hard to make. Um, I kind of had to start over again and be an assistant again, um, in a different avenue once I hit on that for a few years.

[5:14] Jennifer Apple: What did you major in at Muhlenberg?

[5:16] Sarah Lampert: Yeah, theater and creative writing or English.

[5:20] Jennifer Apple: As a, as an actor, like theater concentration as an actor, or did you not concentrate?

[5:24] Sarah Lampert: Theater, I honestly, I like don't remember. I knew it was, I was a double major theater and English with a creative writing minor. That's what it was. Did you take a class with David Rosen?

[5:34] Jennifer Apple: What was his name?

[5:35] Sarah Lampert: David Rosenwasser, my favorite professor on the planet.

[5:38] Jennifer Apple: Same because I also have a, I have a minor in creative writing as well. And I remember it was, I took one of his classes and I was like, oh, this is the most terrifying incredible experience I've ever been a part of. And I've never had to work so hard to get it like maybe an A. I am so curious as to what David Rosenwasser thinks about Ginny & Georgia because he's so like our sensibility, like I loved his class. He's one of the most brilliant men on the planet.

[6:02] Sarah Lampert: Um, but I just remember like our sensibilities are a little bit different. Like is he so anti?

[6:05] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, he's like so anti like sentimental, and he's just like so like, and I'm so like pop, like kind of tongue in cheek, kind of bullshit, like you know what I mean? So I don't know. I'm really curious to what his experience of the show was for sure. I love him. Oh my god, I love him. So good. That was one of the best, his classes were some of the best classes I remember ever taking in my life.

[6:29] Sarah Lampert: Yep.

[6:30] Jennifer Apple: Okay, so flashback forward to reality TV, and now you're assisting in a different domain. Are you writing in the process? What is happening for you in terms of your own creative process while you were doing your hustle?

[6:42] Sarah Lampert: Sure. Well, it's changed a lot. I mean, when I first moved to LA, I like didn't know what I was doing, and it was really challenging. And I had no idea how to write a script because as I'm saying, I didn't major. There was no TV writing major at Muhlenberg. I actually took two classes at DeSales down the street, which is like, which was a TV writing, whatever, whatever.

[7:01] Jennifer Apple: This is a lot of things.

[7:02] Sarah Lampert: While you were there?

[7:02] Jennifer Apple: While you were at Muhlenberg?

[7:03] Sarah Lampert: Well, yeah, and it wasn't something I like tried to do. It was, I got called into like the office or something. Like the, my second semester senior year, and they were like, Hey, funny story. Um, we like added your math wrong, and like one of your credits for your creative writing minor, like isn't or your English major. I honestly don't remember which, but they were like basically, you won't finish the major or the minor something. We've s, we fucked this up somehow. And I remember just being like at the time, like, oh no, well, I must finish the major or minor. Of course, now in hindsight, I'm like, that bullshit didn't matter. But right, but at the time, like I must fit whatever. So I like looked around and DeSales College, like down the way had two credits.

So I like figured it out where like they would apply towards my whatever thing was that I was missing and I was able to take. I took like TV writing, like the half hour comedy and the hour drama down into sales.

[7:57] Jennifer Apple: Okay, so you had taken a small little like not actual amazing.

[8:01] Sarah Lampert: Okay, like one course there. It was actually really fun. And like it was fun to just like go to a different college. Um, plus like I think it's like a very religious college, like it's very like nuns teach classes and stuff. So I was definitely the only Jew on campus.

[8:13] Jennifer Apple: Amazing.

[8:13] Sarah Lampert: I remember and I started dating a guy down there, and I was like, Oh, like the hot rebellious, yeah, hot, hot Muhlenberg girl, like sweeping in to DeSales. I was like, That's not what it was at all, but that's like my in my head, right?

[8:25] Jennifer Apple: Of course.

[8:26] Sarah Lampert: Um, okay. So you had that kind of under your belt. You obviously had your English degree, whatever that even meant, but it wasn't specific for TV writing. How did you start to get into the actual structure of it? Was it just like trial by fire? Did you end up taking classes out in LA? What were you doing?

[8:41] Sarah Lampert: I mean, I was under the mindset with, again, like I didn't think about anything. Like I should have, like I didn't, like you're saying it now, and I'm like, Yeah, like I should have looked around me at some point in my college.

[8:53] Jennifer Apple: No, but obviously something's wrong.

[8:55] Sarah Lampert: But it'd been like, I don't know how to write a script, which is what I'm trying to do here. I just like that didn't, I think that was an option. Uh, whatever, it doesn't matter. But um, I think writing is writing, honestly. I mean, obviously they're different and they're kind of formatting. The math of it is different, like the format and the structure, and you know, you have to know, you know how to structure a scene, how to go in and out. But at the base level, writing is writing. And so I think that was just kind of my mentality.

[9:24] Jennifer Apple: And you just started from the fight that like the idea of writing is writing and the structural part of it just kind of you started learning as you went.

[9:32] Sarah Lampert: You are giving me far too much credit. No, these are like, like me like waxing poetic on my life choices, like now with like the power of hindsight. Like, no, I didn't think anything when it was. Well, like I guess the thing that I'm getting at is like you wrote these incredible scripts that clearly have profited Andorbin's soul, but like you wrote them with no actual structure, because this is blowing my mind if you have in the best way.

[9:55] Sarah Lampert: Well, no, because the first script I wrote was an actual nightmare, like for some unbeknownst reason to me, like all of I, I did the entire script in all caps lock. I don't know why I thought that needed to happen. It was a choice. I don't know. I think I like Googled one script, like Google Image, and like maybe it was in cat. I remember I remate, uh, dyslexia like turned it into cat, who knows unreal. Um, so no, I didn't know what the hell I was doing, but um, I just kept writing just because I love writing, and then I did take a, um, I didn't take many, but I took an online extension course at UCLA, and I really liked that. And that kind of taught me the, it was just like a spec writing script.

We had to like pick, this was like 2010, so I have many 12 years ago now. Um, and at that point, what you did to try to get like a staff writer job was you would spec a script. You would spec, you would just write a fake episode of a TV show. I think I wrote for like New Girl or something, and you write a fake episode of that TV show. Um, and that's how people would hire you based on that. That that's no longer the case now when we're staffing Ginny & Georgia, we just read everyone's original pilots. I do think there's something honestly very helpful about seeing like how people can adapt to different shows' voices. That was the purpose of the spec. So I took a spec writing course.

[11:13] Sarah Lampert: Um, and that showed me that you don't write all dialogue in caps, you moron. What did you think to do? Whatever. It doesn't matter. And then, um, there, I was just kind of like bumming around LA, like bouncing from like, you know, different assistant job. Like I worked at a bunch of different big reality TV companies um for a bunch of different executive producers.

[11:35] Sarah Lampert: So the, what that kind of did, which you know, again, hindsight's 2020, I didn't realize I was learning these skills at the time, but reality TV was a little bit more like the wild west, like back then, like it was just kind of starting its boom in 2010. So what that meant was there weren't as many like kind of rules in place. So it was a little bit freer in the sense that like I would go in with all my bosses and help them pitch as an assistant, which is just like I don't, yeah, which was awesome. Like all these reality TV shows. So like I would be the one, and I'm not an editor, but I'd be like cutting together sizzle reels of like found footage from YouTube, like for proof of concept, and like putting together these reality TV decks to like try to sell the show.

So I was like starting to kind of learn and think how to pitch, even though I wasn't doing it for scripted TV, just like, but thinking about things in terms of like, here's the world, here's the tone, here are the characters, here are like possible plot lines, and just starting to kind of organize and think. And also what reality TV helps you do is it's, there is no script, so you have to rely on painting a picture, right? And really like immersing in the world. Um, so yeah, so I learned how to be a good pitcher from working in reality TV as an assistant.

[12:53] Jennifer Apple: How did you end up getting those assistant jobs? Was it just like here's a Craigslist thing, or did you know people or so?

[12:59] Sarah Lampert: My first ever job, oh, I was a waitress first, and then Shira, my roommate, um, she had an in she worked at Paradigm, uh, which is a talent agency. And through that, she heard that like someone needed like a manager needed an assistant. So I was like this guy's assistant for like a minute, and then while I was there, I just like met people, like I don't even like it just like I don't know, like at bars, like ah, it sounds so terrible. But like I like made a friend.

[13:24] Jennifer Apple: Oh, that was, I kind of knew this group of people because they'd like gone to high school at like in my town, like a different high school, and they were older and cooler, and um doesn't matter. But uh, I started hanging out with them kind of, and then one of them was hooking up with this girl, and then I became friends with the girl.

[13:38] Sarah Lampert: Of course, and then she yeah, naturally, and then like ditched the guys, yeah.

[13:42] Jennifer Apple: Yeah.

[13:42] Sarah Lampert: Um, and this girl was like, Hey, my friend is looking for like we know someone who needs an assistant at their reality TV production company.

[13:52] Sarah Lampert: Like, would you be interested? And I was like, absolutely, yes. Um, so I got that job. I actually I remember I had that job, and then I forget I had I was between these two jobs, both assistant jobs, and I remember I took one instead of the other, and the job, and I won't call out who did this, but the job I didn't take. Um, I wrote like this lovely email, like it was so nice meeting you. Thank you so much for the opportunity. I'm actually gonna go in this other direction. And they wrote me an email back, like, How dare you? Don't you know who we are? You'll never work in this town again. And I just remember like forwarding it to my mom, like, what the fuck is LA? Like, what is this? Jesus. Yeah, so that was like a fun intro to it.

I hope you sent an email being like, Hey, remember that? Like, just to like actually like found that old email and responded to that, being like, Hey, um, I know you told me I'd never work again. I hope you're doing really well. I mean, I don't have to find it because it's like burned into my like traumatized brain as like an impressionable, like whatever, however old I was baby 22-year-old maid, like what? I'm not cut out for this. Like, um, no, I would never they it's fine. Okay. Um, but I yeah, I started working reality TV as an assistant. Um, and that was interesting because I wasn't on the creative side of it, I was the executive in charge um of productions assistant. So I had to do like all these budgets, which like he was like, Okay, like just like put together this like Excel grid of like all these things, and I'm like, Oh yeah, sure, no, definitely.

And I remember that was like, What's Excel? Like, that was the first time I ever opened the green squiggly instead of the blue W. You know what I mean? Like, I didn't so I'm like googling like how to add cells in Excel, like just totally figuring it out on the fly, but very quickly moved over to the creative side of reality TV where I was much more comfortable because I was just drama and I'm a messy bitch who lives for the drama.

[15:37] Jennifer Apple: So um while you were working there, were you writing on your own?

[15:43] Sarah Lampert: So, yes and no. That was definitely the plan, but I definitely got swept up in like the LA ness of it for a while. Um, I did end up writing two scripts, like it was eight years. I should have written more than two scripts, and so actually, the reason I wrote Ginny in Georgia is because I was so I had just gone through a really bad breakup and I was just so frustrated with myself. And at that point I had moved, I was the assistant. The company that I was at the longest was Madaka Productions and my boss, Jeff Toller, who's awesome. Um, he brought me in because his background was like movies, mostly movies and also scripted TV. And obviously my background was reality TV, and it was just kind of a two-person company for a while.

Um, and he is actually the one who I gave my finished script to after I finished writing it first. And he's the one who ultimately got it to Netflix. So he's a producer on Ginny and Georgia, yeah, which is awesome. But I love that. Yeah, that was really nice. He like bought me final, like the latest final draft for like my Christmas gift one year. Once he knew I was a writer, yeah, he was really supportive, which is really, really special. Um, but so I wrote Ginny in Georgia in an online UCLA extension course because I was so frustrated with myself that I'd kind of gotten comfortable in this like development land and I hadn't written anything in a while. So I signed up for this course and I wrote Ginny in Georgia during the UCLA extension course. Yeah.

[17:09] Jennifer Apple: The whole was it just like a pilot episode or was it like a digital?

[17:13] Sarah Lampert: No, no, no, just the pilot.

[17:15] Jennifer Apple: Just the how did you I guess let's talk about it. How or what inspired you for this particular story? Was it brewing? Was it like let's just fuck around? Like what was it for you?

[17:25] Sarah Lampert: Well, so it's really interesting because this is again where like you never know where your path is gonna take you, right? And like what things are gonna help you get to ultimately where you want to be. And it doesn't always like make linear sense. Like, you know, a lot of my friends are writers, and their path was was very different than mine. And they're they're, you know, they're very successful, but they just did it differently, where they were a writer's or assistant or a showrunner's assistant, and then they got a script, and then they got a staff writing job, and you know, and they work their way up, um, which makes more sense, and you kind of learn how to do it. Um, which makes more sense, and you kind of learn how to do it.

And I do I do think that there's a lot of merit in being in a writer's room uh before you're the creator of a TV show on Netflix. Yeah. But um how I did it, which actually I think really helped me ultimately just sell it, was what I'm really good at, and what I had to learn to learn how to do because I worked in reality, was just really come up with like short ideas, like kind of just all the time. So this was when I signed up for the UCLA extension course, they were like, Okay, you're gonna write an original pilot, so just come up with a log line. And I have, I'm sure a lot of writers have this, but just innumerable amounts of log lines just kind of backlogged and ready to go of just like worlds in characters dynamics that interest me.

Um, and the reason I decided to go with Ginny and Georgia and write that in the class was because I am always really interested in a mother-daughter dynamic, and specifically Ginny and Georgia, because there was something just so fascinating to me about like two women who have really the strongest bond that two women can have in the mother and daughter relationship who will never fully understand each other for various reasons and love each other dearly, but have great propensity to hurt one another. Um yeah, so that was kind of what sparked that the dynamic between the two women is what I was interested in.

[19:16] Jennifer Apple: Wow. And in this class, as you created it, was it something that was easy for you? Did it like come out of you very like willingly?

[19:22] Sarah Lampert: Yeah, it it was easy. It helps to have a deadline. That's kind of why I wanted to take the class. Um, it helps to have a deadline and it helps to write something that you find fun. Like, I love, I love drama, like I love high school, like I love murder. Like, you know, I was just like, was having a good time. Like on your epitaph, like Sarah Lampert loves murder. People are like, oh no, no. Yeah, no, yeah, I was just having a good time. Like I they were just, you know, they were just they were it's it's a wild show. Like it jumps around in tone quite a bit. It it is a wild ride. And I yeah, I was just having a good time. So from that class, you had this pilot, then what?

[19:59] Sarah Lampert: So I had this pilot. Um is that when you gave it to your boss and was like, read this, or was that I need to create more episodes? Was it now I know I like this, and this is can be his whole thing. Let's make a pitch deck, and this is what like where were you at?

[20:13] Sarah Lampert: So I had this pilot and I gave it to my boss, and he was like, This is actually good, thank God. Um so he ended up giving it to another scripted uh producer that he knew, and they had just had lunch with someone over at Netflix, um, an exec over at Netflix, and uh read like a year before um the Gilmore Girls Revival, A Year in the Life had just come out, and that had done really, really well for them. So they uh were kind of looking for a mother-daughter show that they could make for cheap, which I feel like is the log line of Jenny and Georgia. So um so they were really interested in it. So they brought me in to pitch it. I came up with this 20 minute pitch. I did the pause, pause, pause, pause, pause.

[20:58] Jennifer Apple: Before you even asked him to look at this, were you just like, hey, I have a pilot? Would you read it? Yes. Or was it like, hey, I have a pilot? Do you know all your friends? Can you give him this material?

[21:09] Sarah Lampert: No, no, I I gave it to him to read. I was like, I have a pilot, can you read it? I'm sure he had some notes or something. And I did the notes and then he started sending it out.

[21:18] Jennifer Apple: Wow and that was on his own accord you weren't like please send this he was just like this is great it needs to be no I never would have asked him to do that if yeah he had to lead the charge on that I mean I would have tried to sell it regardless but yeah I I you know have a good relationship with him and knew he had my back and that's so incredible gave gave it to him first for sure.

[21:37] Sarah Lampert: Wow okay so cool now I'm getting back to where we are okay so then they were like we're gonna pitch this because or we need to have this type of thing is this the first pitch you've ever created for your own work yes pitch deck sorry yes definitely it wasn't a deck it was me talking for 20 minutes um which I'm like pretty good at pitching I will say that is like what I learned from reality TV.

[22:00] Jennifer Apple: What are your strengths in the pitching land? Like why own that please own that and why are you good at it?

[22:04] Sarah Lampert: Every pitch is like a 20 minute performance essentially where it's like yes you're getting the main points across but for me because the show jumps around in tone a lot and it goes really light you know really light happy funny but then it also like deals with some very deep very intense subject matters. So you yourself have to be able to um navigate through whatever the tone of your show is so there's like a formula to pitching whereas you start the pitch by kind of talking about yourself why why you were interested in creating this project you know whatever. But then you go into the world of the show and then you go into the characters and then you summarize the pilot and then you pitch out um the full season and then you spend like a little bit of time just doing and then season two and then season three just like a sentence or two on each and then you kind of finish it up with you know the themes of the show and like kind of the bigger broader picture of the show.

Yeah that's where my English major came in handy no but I mean I I would argue that and also I mean you know I don't want to give me Limbert the credit but like I would imagine you having experience as an actor and also in performance generally like standing up there for 20 minutes by yourself stare being stared at about something that's creative on your own like I don't imagine that was as daunting if you were just somebody who was like only been in your room writing all the time.

[23:18] Sarah Lampert: Totally no yeah you but you become the storyteller. So you're you're almost like telling a bedtime story to the execs across the table where it's like then you're in a scene where like this happens and this and this and you have to like do the whole thing.

[23:29] Jennifer Apple: I love it. What is the difference between a verbal 20 minute pitch versus say like a pitch deck or why would one do one or the other when is one requested um so a pitch deck is only ever really supplemental to the pitch itself uh in the sense that like I recently just pitched um another TV show and because it's Zoom you just have to assume that people are like less engaged in what you're saying. So it's really helpful to have like a visual pitch deck during your pitch where it's just like nothing. It's just like here's you know all the actors that you've cast your fictional TV show for and like their names so like they can just like have something visual to grasp onto as you kind of go through it. Um yeah.

[24:10] Jennifer Apple: Got it. So when you're in there in this 20 minutes how are you feeling leading up to it? How are you feeling post what was that experience like?

[24:14] Sarah Lampert: Honestly I was really feeling like I was ready for it. Like I I had a lot of confidence um I knew that I could do it. I I don't honestly like looking back I would have less confidence because it's so hard. It is so hard uh to make a TV show but at the time I don't know I just I I had been out in LA at that point for eight years and I just felt confident.

[24:47] Jennifer Apple: Yeah I love that I love that you also are owning that I feel like so many people are like no it just like happened it's like no like I I knew what I was doing or even if I didn't I felt like I could or I like I think there's something really really empowering and wonderful about like a knowing your worth but also B not apologizing for like the way in which you show up like I think that's I mean yeah I'm gonna come off as a pompous asshole.

[25:10] Sarah Lampert: No I mean it's look there once it started that's where I had quite a bit to learn but I knew I was a good pitcher and I knew that I I was ready to do that.

[25:21] Jennifer Apple: Yeah. So after you pitched what was the reception like or what happens after a pitch and like in terms of negotiation decisions like all of the logistical parts.

[25:32] Sarah Lampert: I can't explain it other like God I like hate everything that's coming out of my mouth right now but like do you ever just feel like you're in the right place in the right time doing the thing that like you've been led up to do like that is what it felt like it felt like everything I can't explain it. Like it also it happened during August which is my birthday month which like I also always feel a little extra magical God I literally can't um I love I love um I don't know like it just I just knew it I can't explain it. I just remember emailing my agents and my manager and just being like hey I have a pitch at Netflix coming up like and then they you know they called me after obviously and they were like you know how did it go?

And I was like they loved it. Like I I did it I did the thing and they were like okay well like don't get your your like doing a good job of of being reps, which is like trying to manage expectations. But what but I'd been in development for for for eight years at that point. I'd been in, you know, over 50 pitches, like not mine, but I I knew when it was like gonna be a go and when it wasn't, and I don't know, I can't whatever. I can't explain it. I just I just knew I it's so silly. Whatever.

[26:34] Jennifer Apple: It's great.

[26:38] Sarah Lampert: Um anyways, uh can't say I've gotten that feeling again since then, but it it all did just feel something. I don't know. It felt something in the air. But and then they get back to you after they tell you in the like immediate, like what happens.

[26:54] Sarah Lampert: They called me two days later and they said that I needed to find a showrunner. Um rightfully so, because I had again never set foot in a writer's room. Um, and then pending finding a showrunner, they were gonna pick it up for 10 episodes.

[27:06] Jennifer Apple: Wow.

[27:07] Sarah Lampert: Which was great. And so this is where Deborah comes in.

[27:09] Jennifer Apple: That's where Deborah comes in.

[27:10] Sarah Lampert: Yes, correct. I love that you know Deb.

[27:12] Jennifer Apple: Yes.

[27:12] Sarah Lampert: I mean, I follow you. I feel like I know you. I don't have any real idea of your life, but I feel like you and Deborah's relationship is wild and and you need to write a show about that alone.

[27:20] Sarah Lampert: So I'm ready for it. I tried to pitch Netflix to let Deb and I have this like online content, like two first timers making a show, women, friends, dancing, la, whatever. Um, and it did they were like, why don't you just make your show first? Like, oh yeah, that's fair. Like we're paying you for that, not for this.

[27:38] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, yeah, good point, good point. Um, no, so yeah, I met with a bunch of showrunners.

[27:43] Sarah Lampert: Um how? How do you find them? How did you go about it? So once so part of the development process for a script, especially for a first-time writer, is you will always get paired with a showrunner. Um normally you try to do that before you even take it into pitch somewhere. Um the fact that my script got into Netflix's hands at the exact moment that they were looking for a low budget mother-daughter show, uh, was again, like I don't know, magic in the out of the air. Whatever. Great. But typically what happens, and and you know, I I went through this a lot in development is typically you try to pair the young writer with a showrunner, and then you go in with like a sexy package, and then you try to sell the show that way.

Um which is very hard to do because showrunners or writers are they typically want to do their own stuff, right? So it's just tricky to do. And so um, but where that changes, where that becomes a little easier is once you have the if you get a showrunner, we're gonna green light 10 episodes. That makes it obviously more attractive. So it was very easy to meet with showrunners because a guaranteed 10 episodes is a very, you know, that's a rare thing. So it was a more attractive package than like join this project and then we'll take it out to pitch, which I've tried to do with other projects that never, you know, whatever. So how it works is the producers uh reach out to all of the showrunners they know who they think would be a good fit, but then also agents um submit their clients to who they think would be a good a good fit.

Um there is there like a breakdown that goes out to showrunners in this kind of way? This is like the kind of like networky stuff of the industry where it's like the producers will reach out to all the different agencies, like the big the big agencies and be like, hey, we have this project at Netflix, we have this young writer, we have I was young at the time. We have this young one. Still young, still young. Whatever. Um we have this young writer. Um, she's very green. We have this project, it's gonna be this low budget Netflix show. They want 10 episodes. Like, which of your clients um do you think would be a good fit? It's a mother-daughter show, murder, yada yada yada. Um basically I I met with all these showrunners, and I ultimately Deb and I, I mean, Deb's brilliant.

Like Deb is amazing. I can't say enough good things about her, although she's kind of yelling at me via text at this moment, but not really. So I met with Deb, and we just like really hit it off. Like there was a lot of just kind of mutual respect and ideas and creativity and flow and all of that. Um, and I just really felt comfortable um with her as the leader of the show, honestly. Um, and so from there. So then what happened is Deb and I had to put together a pitch to go back into Netflix and and pitch out because what I did when I went in is I pitched, you know, the characters, the world, and and a lot of season one. Um, and then what Deb and I did is we went back in and we really built out season two, three, and four, just as like a this has a lot of legs, and also look at us, don't we go well together?

And like here's here's our package, here's us, here's the four seasons of the show. Um is that how many you've been greenlit for? No, that's just how many are in our little heads. Cool. Yeah. So after we did that, then um we got a call like an hour after that, and Netflix Greenlit the show, which is crazy to Greenlit for 10 episodes. Um what did you do when you got that call? I was so I was actually in a meeting with a lawyer when because I didn't have a lawyer because why why do I need a lawyer? Um so I was meeting with lawyers because I could tell I was going to be needing a lawyer because they they're the ones who put together your deal for Netflix and all of that. So I missed it because I was in a meeting feeling very like important in Beverly.

I was like in Beverly Hills meeting with a lawyer, like ha ha ha ha ha ha. I think I was like hungover and whatever. Of course. Um great. So I was driving back from that and I get the call, and uh everyone was freaking out. Like when I turned on my phone off silent after this meeting, my phone it was like lit up like a Christmas tree. Like literally everyone was trying to reach me. It was really wild. Um, and the first person I called was my mom because I guess a little sidebar that probably isn't funny unless you know my family. But my mom had been in the uh sprint store and the Apple store all day in Boca Braton with my grandmother, trying to help her sort out her technology, which is the actual seventh circle of hell.

So she had just been checking in with me all day. Like, is there any news? Is there any news? Like, but yeah, so um the entire Boca Ratan uh sprint store celebrated, and my mom, like they were all like clued in to what was going on to the news we were waiting for. Like she was like, Oh, here, you know, here's Brad on the desk. He wants to wish you well. Like, this was uh November 2nd of 2018. Wow. Okay, okay. So wait, I have want to double back. I only know that because it was Halloween, and I love Halloween. That's I was gonna say you only know that because this is like a massive day in your life, but you're like, no, it's surrounded by costumes. That's literally the reason. It's the Halloween too. That's it, yeah.

[33:00] Jennifer Apple: Have you been using the same monologue for years and could use a new piece? Are you applying to BA, VFA, or MFA programs? You need a monologue for that process. Are you someone who simply has no idea where to search for monologues? Well, lucky for you, I do what is called monologue sourcing, in which I find monologues specifically chosen for you. So many artists use pieces based off external labeling for types and roles rather than find pieces sharing who they really are and what speaks to them. So we'll meet virtually together. You share who you are as a human, what you love, your dislikes, your values, beliefs, family, friends, love, politics, you name it. I will help guide you through this.

And then I go off on my own and find you monologues chosen just for you that fit like a glove. I've been doing monologue sourcing for years as an extension of the coaching I do with artists. And I have found pieces in this way for over hundreds of artists thus far. So if you are someone who wants to feel empowered about the monologues you bring into rooms and use for auditions, I would love to help you find them. And because you are a dedicated listener of the Empowered Artist Collective podcast, I want to provide you with a custom link to an exclusive rate when you check out today. Head to Empowered Artist Collective.com slash podcast promo to register. That's empowered artists collective.com slash podcast promo right now. I cannot wait to help you find monologues you absolutely adore.

[34:35] Sarah Lampert: I want to double back to producer land, because you had you said you had these producers who were obviously reaching out to their people. How did you get those people involved? Or how did you decide who wants to produce how does that go? Well, my my boss, my boss is a producer, my old boss, Jeff, was a producer who um hired me, who I was his assistant for five years at Matica. Um he sent it to um Holly Hines and Elena Blechter, who were at they've since moved everyone moves around in the town all the time. But they were at um Dynamic and he sent it to them. Um also Jenny Daly, which it was called T Group, and now it's called Critical Content. Like this is what I'm saying. Like everyone's like, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But um, those are our producing partners, or those are the producers on the show. And how it happened was Jeff, Jeff and me. I mean, it was literally a two-person company within the bigger company of Sunshine Sacks, which is a PR firm. Now we're getting like really in the in the weeds, whatever. Um, but so Jeff sent it, he had an overall deal with Jenny. So he sent it to Jenny. Jenny was like, I like this. And then they were like, Great. Um, Jenny mostly does reality TV too. So they wanted to bring on like someone who's more in the scripted space, and that's when they brought in Holly and Elena at Dynamic. And Elena had just had lunch with Stacey Silverman, who was like heading up the low budget division at Netflix, which no longer exists, by the way, my show isn't in that division anymore.

We were one week into the writer's room, and we went back into Netflix to like pitch out our season one arc that the writers had like worked out with us. Um, because I wrote the pilot, but then from that point on, it becomes a it becomes a big group effort, um, which I can get into that too. But basically, we came in and Deb and I pitched what the writers' room had come up with for the season one arc, and we didn't realize that we were pitching to like still be a show because the division that we were in was no more. So we go but so we got absorbed into the um the young adult division at Netflix, which is where we still are. Wow. Okay, so those producers came on board, and honestly, I mean, what I'm hearing is that it's just all people who want to work with other people that they like. It's just really people wanting to work with the people that they enjoy.

[36:39] Jennifer Apple: Well, that that's how it worked for for me, but again, like they all knew me. Like I was in their assistant land for of for years, like so, you know, it was it was very it was a big supportive effort, which was nice. Okay, so now you've pitched with Deb, they've greenlit you, they've moved you around. How did you go about securing your writer's room how did you go about the casting how did you go about that whole how much of it is red tape with Netflix how much of it is actually your creative vision where does that all fall yeah for the writers securing the writers so what happens is now we have a show and we have to hire a writing team to write said show so we have the budget for a certain amount of writers at different levels of writing so we um put the word out that we were looking for writers first off and then um people started put the word out is there like a thing no so again you this is this is where it's helpful to have representation because you put the word out kind of to agents to the reps but honestly more than that I would say more than we used any agents um Deb has been working in the industry for 25 years and she knows everyone there is to know I mean she's written on shows for like so many different networks and genres and everything.

[37:59] Sarah Lampert: So she put the word out to kind of showrunners she knew she looks she looks at writer Twitter. A lot of people were hired for the show and it was like their first like first time being this role first time being this because obviously it was my first and it was Deb's been in the industry for 25 years but she's never been a showrunner. She's always been the number two this was her first time leading the charge. So she really wanted to like you know big on giving opportunity and all of that. So um I really let Deb lead the charge on hiring the writers because she does have all that experience. I mean, we would interview people together, we would read their samples. Um, and you know, writing a good sample is important, absolutely, but it's much more important, just like who you are in the room.

Like, are what's your vibe? Are you willing to be like a little bit honest, vulnerable, you know, like share stuff? Like, you have to be able to talk, right? Like, you have to be able to be engaging because that's the other thing. Like, everyone, like our writer's assistant, Deb's assistant, our script coordinator, like everyone kind of sits at the table, everyone is encouraged to pitch. Um, that was a big part of how Deb ran the room, which I don't think that's the normal. Again, I've never been in a different writer's room, so I don't have any experience, but um, that that was really important to Deb when you let me.

[39:16] Jennifer Apple: Is it that like you have people in a room? I guess this is like depending on and you just kind of said this, but like depending on the writer's room. Sometimes I know it's like a big collaboration. Sometimes it's like you take this episode, you take this episode. How did it end up working for all of you?

[39:29] Sarah Lampert: So it's actually both for most writers' rooms. It's usually a big discussion and a big collaboration. I can walk you through how you create an episode of TV.

[39:37] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, we'd love that gladly.

[39:39] Sarah Lampert: Okay, so basically, there's a writer of record for each episode, right? Um, but that being said, the the process is always kind of the same. So the writer of record will be the one to kind of organize the discussion around their episode, to be the one to kind of like write things on the board to kind of like lead the charge. I'm getting a little ahead of myself. So okay, let's start with an episode. Let's say, okay, 201 is written. Okay, we had the pilot. I had written it. That being said, it definitely needed some tweaks, some changes, some other voices added to it. So, first thing we did in our writer's room was we just blue skied. Like, what does everyone like about the pilot? What do people not like?

Like, what can we improve upon? What are people interested seeing going forward in it this season? Who are like the other characters that we haven't introduced yet? Like, what are the high school friends going to be like? Like, what are the arc? So you just kind of like talk, honestly. Like it's just one big game of make-believe. Like it's it's you just kind of and so um, and you throw all the spaghetti at the wall, and there's no dumb idea, and you just throw all the spaghetti at the wall. Um, and really where like Deb and I come into play is just like a little bit keeping like the reins going, like keeping it like keeping us moving forward. Um, Deb more than me. And then for me, it's a little bit more like, oh, creatively that makes sense to this world I've created, or oh, that's really interesting.

Like, let's go in that direction. So it's a little bit steering the ship, but but really in those first few days, weeks, it's it's a big group effort. Like it is, it is everyone kind of brainstorming and and and um starting to really feel ownership, I think, over the show, because you know, we this is our show now, like this is this is the room of which it will be created, yeah.

[41:24] Sarah Lampert: So that's what happens first. Then decisions get made though, is it like if you have all of these so that's that's Deb, and then because Deb is so respectful, like me too, but didn't have to be me.

[41:38] Sarah Lampert: Like she's the boss, she's the showrunner. She just like had respect for me, so it was the two of us, but really ultimately at the end of the day, it's Deb. She's a showrunner. Okay. Um, so that's how decisions get made. But I would say it's not often that it needs to be like such a frank decision in that stage of the game. This is more of just like, here's what we're interested in. There's no wrong answer. What are you interested in seeing? I'm not gonna be like, no, you're not, you're not interested in seeing that. Like, no, like you, it's a big, it's a big um, we call it blue sky. So, right? It's like the big blue sky. It's you're just throwing things into the sky. So that's how it happens first.

Then everyone got the pilot, everyone kind of like had a bit to like read the pilot, send us typed up notes on what they think about the pilot. Then we talked about the pilot, then we then I did a rewrite on the pilot. Then from there, then we enter episode. I'm gonna skip over episode two because Deb and I co-wrote episode two. I'm gonna go to episode three because uh David didn't, or two other writers wrote episode three, right? So, what starts for that is it's another, it's a blue sky day. So, okay, blue skying episode three. So that is okay. Here's where we left off on episode two, right? Um, this just happened, this just happened, this just happened. Now, here's here's what do we want to see in episode three?

Like blue sky. So it could be anything, it could be this, it could be that, it could be this. I oh god, I skipped a step. When we're blue skying the season, we do kind of break it into episodes and we do try to create some sort of a semblance like, okay, here's where we're trying to go. Here's our episode 10, here's what needs to happen. Ginny needs to discover that her mom is a murderer, and her and Austin need to run away, and Paul needs to get elected. Those are like those three big tent pole plot points that need to happen, right? Um, and it the plot points all stem from the relationship points. So it's like we need Ginny and Georgia to not be a unit, they need to be broken at the end of season one.

So that's what we're working towards. So once we have that, um then you stem off of that. Like, okay, well, if Ginny is broken away from her mom, we want her broken away from everyone else, too. We want her broken away from Marcus, we want her broken away from Hunter, we want her broken away from Mang, you know, um, really everyone except her brother and her father. So we we know where we're going in episode 10, and so now we have this whole season of TV to get there and to play around and to do this with all the relationships and to figure out like, okay, what plot points like interest us as a room? Like what relationships interest us as a room? What do we want to see? And that just gets thrown on the board.

So for ex I'll use episode three news example because it's a self-contained episode. It's an easy one to talk about because it's sophomore sleepover. Sophomore sleepover is something that happened in my high school. Uh my mom actually ran it. I love this. We had a conference call in the writer's room with my mom and everything that Ellen says in that episode, Audrey Lampert said.

[44:27] Sarah Lampert: Um, was your mom the happiest she's ever been to have been included? Or was this like she's just like, yeah. My mom. So the thing about writing, like this is not my story. Like I am not uh any of the characters that you see on screen. Like this is a true, like it's a it's fiction. It's it's it's you know, it's fiction. But that being said, bits of every single writer in that room and as well as me get put on screen, right? Sometimes it's personal stories. So there are definitely some moments that my mom, you can never you should be just be careful of being friends or dating a writer, because or I guess birthing one. She'll see things on screen and she'll be like, huh. Yeah. That happened, you know, just like so.

There are little moments like that, and and you know, that's every writer. So I also imagine too, like people in your life like can read more into things that actually are actually there, so that they're like, this had to have been me. And you're like, oh no, I literally you were not even on my mind when I did this. That was me. You're like, no, literally this came from another person. You're like, I don't believe you. Well, also, too, like you have to name a lot of characters, and like it like it sounds cool and fun at first, but then when you're like just trying to like get the work done and you're in the writer's room and it's like, uh frick, like uh, who's one of the moms at the school? Uh someone give me a name, like what's your mom's best friend's name?

Like, you just like start using names that you just know because you you're just in a rush to to do the thing. So, like my friend Samantha is like, why'd you name that character after me? And I was like, I don't know, like honestly, like I just thought of your name. Like you're not that character at all. I'm so sorry. And like, you know, and like Cynthia, that's like my mom's friend. I was just like, what's like a woman who's like, you know, my mom's age, who has a name, my mom's friend Cynthia, perfect. And like, then you're just like, oh, I don't know if I should have done that. Like, so but like there's a lot of like little things in there, everyone has different names that they kind of slide into the show, so that's fun.

So now we're in episode three. We have this like 10 episode like loose structure outlined of how we want the season to go. So we're in episode three. Dave and Danielle are the writers of record, and it's sophomore sleepover. So Dave and Danielle are writing their episode, and so what that means is blue sky, they lead it. It's like, what do you you know? They're they're kind of like the teacher of the class that day.

[46:47] Sarah Lampert: I was it that they were like elected to lead it, or were they like, we feel really compelled for this episode, let us do it? No, Deb decides who writes which episodes, and it's honestly that decision is made really before we even fully know anything about the individual episodes. It's just what it is is writers when they're negotiating their contract, because you get paid if your name is on the episode. So if you're a certain like if we're a co ep, it's often guaranteed in your contract that you get two scripts, right? So that's part of your contract. So if you're whatever, so um different amount of people based on your level get different scripts. Got it. They like different writers. Um and again, this is my first writer's room.

So I might be saying some of this wrong. And if I am, whatever. Um, so, anyways, um, the first up were Dave and Danielle. And so they were writing their episode. They were episode three. Um, and uh, so they do they lead the blue sky. So we all blue sky, we all contribute, you know, all of that. And then after the blue sky works, then you kind of have a day where you kind of really start to pull from the blue sky and you start to to really kind of give it some shape. Like, okay, this is what we're doing this episode, this is where we left off. This is where we want to go. So, what's going on? Like, what are the character arcs of the episode? And then you kind of just do kind of a sentence for each character, like the main characters, about um their journey of that episode and their like fun little writer sentences, you know. From lost to found, whatever. So it's you know, and so you you plan out like what each character is gonna be doing in that episode.

[48:27] Sarah Lampert: Um, I wanted that episode to be very lightly themed, Alice in Wonderland, with the idea that sophomore sleepover is going down the rabbit hole because it's like Ginny and George's like first real assimilating experience into this Wellsbury town. But then also I just remember when I was in sophomore sleepover and spending the night in the high school, there's this aura of like, even though it's your high school that you go there every day, something about being there after hours is a you it just feels naughty, like it just feels off, you know? So it you feel a little out of your normal element, anyway. Anyway, so I wanted that episode to have that. Um, it was a last, a truly last minute like add in to have the sunglasses moment with Joe and Georgia.

Like that was completely a last minute thing, which was kind of fun. Um, but yeah, different things get thrown at the wall. I mean, and things change. Like, I think originally in that episode, uh, the kids were doing like I think a harder drug than just like drinking in the classroom, they're maybe like tripping on acid or something, and everything's just like, no thank you. This is a euphoria, we can't go there. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And so I was like, got it, got it. Um yeah, so yeah, a bunch of people contributed like personal experiences to the episode and and other people that, you know, and then also just idea we're writers are coming up with stuff and personal stuff and just kind of a combination of of all of that.

And then once you have all of that, um, you kind of piece it all together. So then what happens? That's when Dave and Danielle have taken this kind of group think ideas and they and they beat it out. Where Deb and I come in is it's at each stage, they kind of bring it to us, and we'll either be like, yes, we love that, or like, like, is that really working? Like, can we think more about that? Um, and kind of steer it that way.

[50:18] Sarah Lampert: So then they'll be like, okay, here are our sentences for each character for this episode. Like, here's their emotional journey for the episode, like bing bing, bing, bing. And it'll be like, okay, great, or or let's think more about this. Like, what else? Like, let's where did this come from? Let's talk about it further, and then you know, whatever. Then they'll pitch out the um, then they'll God, I'm probably getting this wrong, honestly. Deb would always make fun of me. I don't know what it is. I'm like so bad at like all things like structure and math and act break. So I'm always just like, la la la. So she's like, Sarah, like you're forgetting the step that we do literally every single episode for two seasons down.

I'm like, oh yeah. So I'm probably forgetting a step, but then you kind of beat it out. So then you have your all the things that you want to happen to the character, and you start to organize it. So it's like this happens in this. I mean, we don't have acts, but this happens here, and then this and this, and it's it becomes um you do it for each character, right? And then the last step, and then they pitch it back to Deb and me. Sometimes we're in the room when they're actually thinking of all this stuff, and and sometimes we're not, like especially in season one. We had to go to castings, we had to hire our actual crew for when we were gonna be filming. There was just always a lot to do. We had to hire the directors and meet with all the directors.

So oftentimes the writers are in the room coming up with the story without Deb and I there. So then what happens is we um is they they have these things. We come back into the room and they pitch us that. And that's when that's when we kind of are like, okay, here's this is what's working, this is what's not working, like here's what we change. Like, you know, I'd rather see this there, I want this character to do that, and then we give it back to them. So it's kind of like a tennis match, a little bit, and then how long could that take?

[52:40] Sarah Lampert: That process. All of this takes like a certain number of days. So it's like blue sky is usually two days, maybe three. Then you have like each of these is like a couple of days worth of worth of stuff. So you're writing basically the whole show over the course of a bit like almost three months, two, three months. It's usually six months. Oh, okay. Because you have so much more time. Uh-huh. It's I mean, it's not a lot of time, but more than what's because so then what happens is then they do the weave. So that's like this happens here, and then this happens here, and then this happens here, and now all the characters are being we woven together. It's not just here's what's going on with Ginny this episode, here's what's going on with Georgia, here's what's going on with Marcus, here's what's going on with Mac. Now it's like, here's how they all interconnect and all of that.

[52:40] Sarah Lampert: Um, I will say something that I do too, is I will also just write random scenes, and I don't know where in the season I want them to fall, but like I will write like the hallway fights, like I will write a complete random scene that doesn't even necessarily belong anywhere, but I'll just know I want it to happen. And so then when we get to an episode where I'm like, oh, that's where that belongs, and then and I'll be like, okay, in this episode, I need us to get to a point where these two characters fight about this, you know what I mean? And so whatever. So things like that happen. Um so then Dave and Danielle, so they've pitched their whole, they've woven it, then they have to do a little story doc.

So they write like it's like a three-paragraph thing where it just explains like the very broad sense of the episode, and we send that to Netflix, and then Netflix either approves it or they give us notes, or like, okay, well, when you go to script, just make sure it's this, this, and the anyways. So then, but that's just like an overview, like in case they for some reason hated the idea of a sophomore sleepover. They were morally in against it, then we wouldn't do it. But but they're just like, okay, sounds good. You can't really tell much from a story doc. But then once that gets approved, we send the writers to outline, and that's when they go off and they write a usually 11-page outline where it's just every scene and it's just a small description of what happens in each scene so that you can really track all the characters and what's going on uh throughout the whole episode.

And then they give that to us. Deb and I will do a pass on it. So we'll change writing, we'll make it maybe sound like put in more voice for the show and and whatever, and then we'll send it to Netflix, and then Netflix will send back notes, and that's when we'll either have the um, we'll have a conversation with the writers, like, okay, here's what you need to think about for script, or here's what, you know, here are all the thoughts, and then we'll send them to script.

[53:45] Sarah Lampert: And that's when they take this approved outline. Um, Deb and I like it because we've we've put our stamp on it. Netflix likes it, they've given notes on it, and now the writers are sent off to go actually write the episode. Um, so they they write the actual episode, they give it to Deb and I, we'll give them notes, we'll send them back, they'll do another pass on it, they give it back to us, we'll do a rewrite on it or you know, an edit on it, we'll give it to Netflix. Netflix will give notes, they'll send it back to us, we'll address those notes, send it back to Netflix. That process usually happens about three or maybe four times, and then finally the episode will get locked. Wow, which isn't locked at all.

And that's where then when you start filming, everything changes all over again. Anyway, so it's a really really big group effort, like to create a TV show. How did you feel about I know this sounds like an arrogant thing of to say, but like, how did you feel about giving over this idea to other people? Obviously, you you chose these writers because you trusted them and you believe in them and you like them.

[55:27] Sarah Lampert: But what was that feeling of like, oh, now you have autonomy and like really building this out and doing that whole thing? Um, it's not even about trust and like, not I do trust and like them. It's it's more about like everyone, we need to have a lot of different perspectives to join the party because we have an array of characters, and you really need to have it be like it's just more brains are better than one. Like if I were to sit and write the whole season, it just would not be as good. And so you need to have everyone in there. Um, and that's how you're really gonna get like all of these different creative ideas, and they come from um, I mean, everyone, like that. Like that my favorite idea of season two, which obviously I can't say what it is, but is from our writer's assistant.

She knows it too. I've I talk about it all the time. Like, that was my favorite idea, and it did the whole season. It's so good. And when the season finally airs, I'll I'll give her credit for this idea, but I I obviously can't do a spoiler. But um, it's it's interesting because like you're giving over control, but you're also not because like it I do get to do a pass on everything before it goes. Like I do get to infuse, you know, my humor or whatever whatever it is, my voice to things if I feel like it needs it, if I feel like it doesn't, I don't. Um it's it's just it just is how it is, like it is the way to do it, it is the best way to do it. So it doesn't really feel like you're losing anything, it feels like you're you're gaining quite a bit. Amazing.

[56:50] Jennifer Apple: Oh my god, there's so much more I want to talk to you about. Uh once you get to Toronto or Canada, wherever you were shooting, and like what was it like being on set? What was it like doing this whole thing when you've never done this before in this capacity for a scripted moment? Like, what was that for you? Just as an overall.

[57:06] Sarah Lampert: Well, okay. So you know how I said that I always feel like a little magical on my birthday because I'm a Leo and also annoying, apparently. But um so the first day of filming season one of my TV show was on my birthday.

[57:20] Jennifer Apple: Was it really on your original birthday?

[57:22] Sarah Lampert: On my actual birthday was the first day of filming. And not only that, it happened. I did oh, I had they couldn't have cared less. I mean, not that they don't care, it was my birthday, but like this is like millions of dollars into making a TV show that they're not like organizing this around my birthday. So kiss it. Yeah, Ted Sarandos, you know, sure doesn't care.

[57:40] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, no, no.

[57:41] Sarah Lampert: Um, but um, although they do send me a bottle of wine every year on my birthday. Um, we love. Um, but that felt very kismitty, to be honest. Um, and it was also the day this also wasn't planned, it was the day the deadline article dropped. Because I had been like waiting and waiting and waiting to like tell people about this, and we like you kind of can, but like you kinda can't. So I was just so excited for it to like hit deadline or hit variety, and it hit on the first day of filming on my birthday. So that was wild.

[58:12] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, yeah.

[58:13] Sarah Lampert: Um, no, it felt it felt unbelievable because it's I mean, to create a show, like you you create the characters, like you think of them in your head, they don't exist, and then you think of them, and then suddenly there they are in front of you, yeah, existing, and it's not, you know, and I'm not sure a lot of people contribute to this a hundred percent, but there is just something so surreal and special about like seeing a work of imagination. I remember the first scene that we filmed was the was the flashback where young Georgia meets young Zion. Um, and that was the scene, the first scene that we filmed, and it was just like holy shit, like these characters exist now for the world's consumption. Like that is a wild thing to me. Like that not only do they exist, like they're not even mine anymore. Like they you know what I mean? Like it's really, really a very surreal experience.

[59:06] Jennifer Apple: Did you cry?

[59:07] Sarah Lampert: I was probably too busy like Instagramming and like being a brat to no, I definitely cried. I I cried, I I you know, I was just my whole family. I was just very, very connected to my family that day. Like I'm very close family, and I was just sending them all these photos, and I think they couldn't believe it either. Cause you know, they've known me since I was a little girl, and this is all I've ever wanted to do was tell stories, and you know, um, I love doing it, and so they were just like on cloud nine, couldn't believe this was happening, thought it was the coolest thing ever. Um yeah, it's amazing.

[59:40] Jennifer Apple: What would be a piece of advice that either you would tell yourself forever ago about this, or if somebody is starting out and listening to this and has a pilot idea or has written a pilot or is on a similar path of hoping to create something in this type of capacity, what piece of advice would you give?

[1:00:01] Sarah Lampert: Oh man, I don't even know. There's a lot. Um, I mean, I feel like I'm I could probably still take all of my own advice. It's uh all right, I'm trying to put myself back in that place in 2018. Um I would say that you really have to believe in yourself because um it's just so easy for other people to say no to you. After I sold the show to Netflix, I had sent out the show to different contests. Um I got one back being like this show isn't commercial enough, it'll it'll never sell. Unreal. It was definitely a very successful show for the platform. So okay, so back to advice. Um I have a lot only because I'm really struggling to be honest. Um, this is a really it's a really hard job. It's like a very work-intensive job.

And I it's interesting because you feel like you can't really complain about it because it's your dream and it's what you've always wanted to do, and you're so grateful to be able to do it. Um that being said, like it is it's really hard. Like even filming, like all the actors, like we're on location for five months in the Toronto winter during a pandemic. Like it was it's really challenging and it it's a lot of work. So I would say to, and this is really advice for myself, but just know your priorities in life. Like it shouldn't be about success and it shouldn't be about a job. And that's something I'm kind of learning myself right now is like it's about your relationships and it's about your friends.

And if you are looking for some sort of like Netflix show or success or anything like that to give you some sort of happiness or some sort of feeling of being worthy, then it you're just it's not gonna happen that way. Like, yes, it it feels great. And yes, like I love doing it. I love storytelling. I'm very grateful. Um, but that that can't be it. That can't be the thing that you give everything else up for. Like it isn't. It's about the people. It's it's always about people and relationships and and you being happy is what matters the most. So I guess just prioritize yourself and happiness and try to do that. And uh yes. And then the other thing I would say too is advice I would give my younger self for when I was trying to be a writer out in LA, um is just it's so so hokey and cheesy, but like to really believe in yourself because it's just so easy for other people to say no, but no one else like knows you like you know you and if you know you can do it, you know you have something valuable to say, you know what you're worth in a way that others just never will, and that's fine, but you have to be your own strongest advocate and have to be on your own team.

So that that's my advice is don't be ashamed if you haven't hit that goal that you're trying to hit yet, or you don't have that thing that you think you should have, um, because that's all complete bullshit.

[1:02:43] Jennifer Apple: Yeah.

[1:02:43] Sarah Lampert: I think both of those things are real and empowering, but also it's like a it's a it's a check, you know, to like keep yourself in check with with what it is that you love. I also would I would imagine if you are somebody who is pulling, you know, inspiration, let's say, from your own life, whether it's things that you things that you've done or people that you've met, you know, arguably like prioritizing life stuffs that you can pull from things is only going to help the way in which you can show up anyway.

[1:03:13] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, you have to live your life to write your life.

[1:03:15] Sarah Lampert: You kind of have to stay nimble, stay humble, stay, stay all those things. But um, I think ultimately, like I do, I just go back to prioritize yourself, like know what you're worth and prioritize your own happiness and don't look for any kind of like external benchmark or accomplishment to give yourself that because that that's not a way to get it.

[1:03:34] Jennifer Apple: Yeah. I'm so grateful for the time that we had here. You have shared, I feel like dispelled a lot of the things that we think we know about how things are created. I actually could have talked to you for so many more hours. I wanted to know so much more, but all that you've shared already, I feel like for me has been really informative and clarifying about just the world. And I know how busy you are. And so I really appreciate you taking time to even just have this conversation and step away from the gazillion projects that you are in the midst of doing. Um, for the people who are listening, within your own boundaries, if you feel comfortable, what are the ways in which people can follow along with your journey or reach out or spread you elsewhere?

[1:04:23] Sarah Lampert: Oh God. Um yeah, I'm on Instagram and TikTok, God help me. Um, yeah, Slampy with double L's, so S L L A M P Y. Um, you Google Sarah Lampert, I'm sure it'll come up. There is a motocross, Sarah Lampert. There she's like this badass bitch who like does motocross. Have y'all ever connected?

[1:04:41] Jennifer Apple: No, no.

[1:04:42] Sarah Lampert: Maybe now, maybe now I could. I think I tried on like Facebook once where I was like, Sarah Lampert, and she's like, nothing. And I was like, that's fair, that's fine. I did that to this the other Jennifer Apple, who I think runs um like an interior design company in Canada. And she has never responded to me either. And I feel a little sad about it.

[1:04:58] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, I feel if you Google Sarah Lampert, like there I do show up. I mean obviously I've Google myself because you know Leo, but um yeah, sure. Uh but I do show up, but like way more interesting is this like very badass motocross girl. Like very cool.

[1:05:13] Sarah Lampert: So when we see a movie that's all about that, we'll be like, We knew why.

[1:05:16] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, yeah.

[1:05:17] Sarah Lampert: Um yeah, they can follow along like that. What do we have a time frame for season two of Jenny and Georgia?

[1:05:24] Jennifer Apple: Oh my god, I know.

[1:05:25] Sarah Lampert: I can't post like a photo of my dog without a hundred people being like, Where's season two? Yeah, I genuinely I'm so bad at secrets and I like hate secrets and I love sharing everything. I know. So I if I knew when season two was coming out, you would admit I would be the first person to be like, guys, gather round. Like I have no idea. I so I I can give a little insight into this into why I don't know. Um so we're still doing post-production, it's it's in the iterate, like the edit is all finished, the picture edit, but it's still doing um, I think two episodes need to be color corrected still, and then two episodes need to be sound mixed, and one episode is still being scored. Um with the composers and trade music.

Um, but it but it's wrapping up. But the point is is once all of that is finished, then what happens is because it's Netflix and because their their whole philosophy is everyone at once, so um, it will drop uh around the world at the same time, it'll be available on the platform. So what they have to do to prepare for that, first off, there's quality control that they have to do. They have to make sure that no noise is like poking out in a you know a way that like doesn't sound smooth for the show or like anything is whatever. They do quality control checks over the episode, which is like very technical, and I genuinely have no idea how that happens. Um, but then the thing that takes more time is they have to dub the whole show in all of the different languages that Netflix offers, which I did know the number at one point, but I obviously never remember any numbers ever, but it's an impressive amount of number.

And um they dub the show in all these different languages, and then um it it drops at the same time. And then also what they do is they they um they subtitle the show too, but um they'll ask for like last season. Our uh the writer's assistant and the script coordinator put together this incredible list, which just like basically summised like all of the like kind of slang that we use in the show, like just like teen, you know, teen how the teens talk. I know obviously we have no idea how the teens talk, but whatever. So like any like yeah, but like any kind of like phrase that's like very uniquely American that's in the show is they'll kind of summise it so that they so that it can be easily um uh translated to all the different uh languages.

So there's all of this stuff that's like going on behind the scenes that they that they do to all of their their shows, and that's why I have no idea when it'll drop because all of that takes a good amount of time.

[1:07:47] Jennifer Apple: That's nothing.

[1:07:48] Sarah Lampert: Follow along for Sarah's. Sorry, so the short answer.

[1:07:50] Jennifer Apple: No, you'll know, but like that the point is we'll know.

[1:07:54] Sarah Lampert: You'll know when you know, we'll know. Like when I know, you'll know.

[1:07:57] Jennifer Apple: Yeah, short answer to that is I don't know.

[1:07:59] Sarah Lampert: Great, great. Um anything else that is on your heart that you'd like to share before we wrap up.

[1:08:05] Jennifer Apple: Anything else that's on my heart? I don't know. Just everyone out there, just be well. It's been a hard few years and uh take care of yourself.

[1:08:13] Sarah Lampert: Yeah, yeah.

[1:08:14] Jennifer Apple: I adore you. Thank you for this.

[1:08:15] Sarah Lampert: Oh, it was so good to see your face again. It's been so many years.

[1:08:20] Jennifer Apple: I'm obsessed. Thank you so much.

[1:08:22] Sarah Lampert: You're so welcome.

[1:08:26] Jennifer Apple: If you have been sitting on a pitch, on a pilot, on an idea, perhaps this episode inspired you to take it to the next step, whatever that is for you. Now, if you like this episode, please like, rate, follow, and most importantly, review us. This allows us to continue having these types of conversations and reaching other ears who want to be listening in. If you did not like it, just let it all slide. If you have not yet done so, please follow us on Instagram at Empowered Artist Collective, on TikTok at Empowered Artist Collective, more on our website at Empowered Artist Collective.com. And if you are seeking some merch, we got you in the show notes. As always, I am so grateful that you keep on coming back, and we will be back again next week. Until then.