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[0:00] Tim Rice: Hello, this is Tim Rice, and this is episode 57 of my podcast Get Onto My Cloud.

[0:16] Tim Rice: Over the years, nay, decades, I've been lucky enough to see shows I've contributed to, or in one or two cases, originated, see the shows reach places I never thought they would, viz. foreign parts.

[0:31] Tim Rice: And in plenty of those foreign parts, English is, of course, not the first language. Although it might seem rather annoying for a lyricist to find his many long days and nights of creation slung brutally aside to be replaced by some total stranger's interpretation of his brilliant language, emotional acumen, and subtle rhyme and scansion, there is an upside. Two upsides, in fact. Well, three if the show's a success out there.

[0:59] Tim Rice: The first plus is a production of your show abroad is the perfect reason to visit the country where it's being staged, safe in the knowledge that your hosts will be delighted to see you and that you will receive VIP treatment from the moment you get off the plane. Or often in my case, get off the train, as the railways are a much saner, less stressful mode of travel, which I use wherever possible. Especially in the early days when so many places were new and exciting to visit, I was always confident that two or three days there would be fun. Sometimes seeing the show was the least exciting part of the trip.

[1:37] Tim Rice: The second plus of a foreign language version is that you see the show with fresh eyes, almost as if it had been written by somebody else. Even if the production is a faithful replica of a West End or Broadway version, the totally new vocals mean that other aspects of the work demand your attention. Take center stage, if you like. When I've seen, say, Jesus Christ Superstar, or Evita or Aida or The Lion King in Czech or Icelandic or Japanese, I'm unable to worry about my words. Sitting through one of my shows in English, there are certain lyrics or lines here and there which I've never been quite happy with. Not that many, I hasten to add, although I have had critics who have implied one or two entire shows needed a complete new libretto.

[2:22] Tim Rice: And every time, even decades later, I hear one or two of those weak lines. I wish I'd done something about it at the time. But even if a non-English show is in a language of which I have a tolerable grasp, such as French, I don't really worry about the lyrics. It may be pretty clear to me what's being said, but with the exception of French, I wouldn't really know if the translator or adapter is on a par with Keats or a Hallmark greeting card. And anyway, the most celebrated musical theatre translators, such as the superb Michael Kunze in Germany, the late Pierre Delano in France, or Martin Biel in Holland, have had such great success in their home language with original work, any English wordsmith can relax when their names are in the program.

[3:19] Tim Rice: Adios undankema Galdi. Dein Jopist Gitarr offenme kommt's nicht an, nicht für sie. Schreib dich noch schnell in ihr Gästebuch ein, das wär's dann fallsmann dich nochmal brauchen, kann, ruft man an. Doch das ist TOV. Oh, es ist traurig, wenn Liebe Vergeht. Am besten der Schnitt ist ganz knapp. Das heißt Hau ab. Satun Nigerinda.

[4:48] Tim Rice: So da Kudnayatsura. Alakita di tot Belassy und Mitsol. That was Good Night and Thank You from Evita in German, One Jump Ahead from Aladdin in Japanese, and I Just Can't Wait to Be King from The Lion King, Leon Kungen, in Swedish, I think.

[6:03] Tim Rice: So when I'm not worrying about the words, I concentrate much more on the music, the actors, the direction, sets, lighting, sound, and I'm reminded that they are all vital parts of the whole enterprise, and that I sometimes take that for granted. I may have had a few, not that many, issues over the years with foreign direction or casting or design, but the magic of the music of Andrew Lloyd Webber or Elton John or Bjorn and Benny will always shine through whatever chaos reigns elsewhere.

[6:35] Tim Rice: I hasten to say that chaos does not often reign elsewhere, but now and then I'm relieved that a certain production is unlikely to escape too far from its origins. The first ever foreign production of one of my shows was Jesus Christ Superstar in New York, on Broadway, which was unusual, if not unique, for unknown writers who at that point hadn't had an official theatrical presentation of one of those shows anywhere in the world.

[7:02] Tim Rice: I was a little concerned that the only way we could go after that was down. But hey, I attempted to make the most of it on and off stage. This might have been our only shot on Broadway. There were a few illegal productions of Superstar in the US soon after the record was a whopping great hit there, which meant that our producer Robert Stigwood spent as much time in the summer of 1971 trying to shut the pirates down as he did setting his official legal production up in October of that year at the Mark Hellinger Theatre on Broadway.

[7:36] Tim Rice: By the way, I reminisced about that production, directed by Tom Hogan in Get Onto My Cloud Episode 11. Tune in when this one's over. Obviously, there were no translation problems on Broadway, and although the show was a bit of a disappointment following the truly astounding popularity of the album we'd released in late 1970, it still made its money back for the investors. Just. But they would have done better leaving it in the bank, although their local branch would not have thrown in a huge party in Central Park.

[8:08] Tim Rice: A determined investor can usually get a fair chunk of his or her money back via food and drink on the opening night. Superstar on Broadway in 1971 cost $800,000, roughly £320,000 then, well under a twentieth of the cost of some big musicals today. This was principally funded by the Robert Stigwood organization, the show's producers, and by MCA Records. But I undertook to raise a small portion, $50,000, by offering my friends and family the chance to buy a share in the production.

[8:43] Tim Rice: Here was a foolproof way to enable others to benefit from my good fortune. I took no investment share myself. Around 50 first-time angels, as those who finance shows are called, purchased a tiny piece of the action at $1,000 a unit. A thousand dollars gave a punter one eighth of one percent of the profits. And if and when these profits came in, they were paid out every three months to the lucky investors. Stigwood paid my group of angels' income to me, and Fiona Mackenzie, my PA, and I then divided it up, pro rata among our friends and relations, who would doubtless be called loved ones today.

[9:25] Tim Rice: Unfortunately, the loved ones did not turn out to be very lucky. The first payment was hefty and prompt, but as the show's box office wilted, the final instalments took longer and longer to materialize. Most of my investors were uncomplaining and reassured by my confidence that they would eventually see a positive return. But one or two, inevitably friends of friends, certainly by now not loved ones, got rather stroppy towards the end of the run and demanded to inspect the full accounts. Their disgruntlement was doubtless fueled by the fact that the statements they received revealed that I was personally making around £1,200 a week for the enterprise.

[10:05] Tim Rice: My royalties being a straightforward percentage of the weekly take and unaffected by the overall success of the show's economy, being based on income, not on profits. I was mightily relieved when I was able to send out checks to my supporters that took their payback over the 100% mark, but they never got more than a few pounds beyond that. Towards the end of the saga, I suggested that their modest returns should be reinvested elsewhere and included racing tips in the payout letters. A couple of these recommendations stormed home, turning a final 2% profit for my syndicate members into one of around 5%, at least for those who backed the selections.

[10:46] Tim Rice: As the vast majority of musicals dispose of angels' shirts, trousers, and most visible means of support, these Superstar virgins were in fact extremely lucky not to take a bath. I've generally followed the rule that one should never back one's own shows. After all, if they are hits, the creators earn anyway. If they flop, at least you haven't lost anything other than your time, effort, and sanity. I broke this rule in a big way when I sank, unwillingly, but that's another story, a small fortune into the Broadway production of Chess, an unmitigated financial disaster.

[11:23] Tim Rice: Chess in London did pay back, by the way. Frightened off by the Superstar Broadway experience, I failed to invest, or indeed ask my loved ones to invest in either the London show or in Evita in either London or New York, which followed a few years later. Needless to say, these were all huge hits. The anticlimax of Broadway was more than compensated for by the greater success in many European countries. Denmark was first off the mark, followed closely by Sweden, France, Germany, and Australia, all these major productions ahead of the London opening, which happened in August 1972.

[12:01] Tim Rice: All were hits, with a notable exception of Paris. I loved the Paris version, but not many Parisians did. The French are not known for their support of musical theatre, even Les Misérables, written by their own countrymen, was not a massive success there. And the huge hype that surrounded Superstar in Paris, directed by the English actor Victor Spinetti, made the local critics even less disposed to like it. It ran for a few months in the Palais de Chaillot, a then modern hall near the Eiffel Tower, but despite all the efforts of the wickedly energetic French producer Annie Fag, one of Robert's closest chums, it never caught on.

[12:43] Tim Rice: Salvador Dali stole much of the opening night glory, preening his exotic garb and demeanour with wild satisfaction from the most visible box in the house. A brief encounter between Dali and Frankie Howard was alone worth the price of admission. In Paris, the cast had beautiful voices, and Victor's staging was simple, fluid, and sympathetic to the work, but this was not enough. Some of the songs were, however, big hits in the French charts, including singles by Petula Clark and Anne-Marie David, the latter playing Mary Magdalene in the show. Both ladies scored with the French version of I Don't Know How to Love Him.

[13:21] Tim Rice: Here is Anne-Marie, who incidentally won Eurovision a year later for Luxembourg with Tu te reconnaitras. You'll recognize yourself, although the official English version was entitled Wonderful Dream. Here she is with La Chanson de Marie Madeleine.

[14:08] Tim Rice: Dans ces quelques jours tout a bougé le monde est transformé, je ne suis plus la main, je me fais en problème et pourtant ce n'est qu'un homme et j'ai eu beaucoup d'homme dans ma vie tout au long de nuit pourquoi pas lui faut-il le choquer le scandalisé parler d'amour, le brutalise je me demande qui m'arrive je suis dépassé par être droit de me voir jouer ce rôle, moi qui n'est jamais de Jamais pleuré, jamais aimé, de non, j'attends le cœur battant.

[14:08] Tim Rice: Je suis dépassé me disait, je t'aime, j'aurais peur de moi-même, je partirai loin du pays et je ne pense qu'à lui tout m'a vivant, j'ai peur de lui en vie de lui, je l'aime.

[17:50] Tim Rice: Anne Marie David, the French Mary Magdalene in Jesus Christ Superstar Paris singing I Don't Know How to Love Him en Francaise, French lyric by Pierre Delano.

[17:59] Tim Rice: The opening line being, Dites moi, comment faire, tell me what to do.

[18:04] Tim Rice: It's a great lyric all the way through. Thank you, Pierre.

[18:08] Tim Rice: Interesting and successful though some of these European superstars had proved in the opening months of 1972. We were still searching for the ideal director to introduce the show to London, where the album that had stormed America had only done okay.

[18:23] Tim Rice: Robert Stigwood did not want to risk the Tom O'Horgan version in the West End, which not only for patriotic reasons, was the most important market of all.

[19:15] Tim Rice: And incidentally derived from Richard being one of the cast in Jim's London superstar. I was red hot keen to go to Sydney for the opening, not just to check out Jim Sharman, but because my long love affair with cricket had made me a confirmed Aussiephile.

[19:29] Tim Rice: Ironically, my first ever visit to a country I've returned to around 20 times since 1972 coincided with the arrival of the Australian cricket team in England. It was the start of the Australian football season, and the one thing I had no chance of doing there was to see some cricket.

[19:46] Tim Rice: However, I was not the slightest bit disappointed by Sydney. It is of course almost impossible to imagine anyone failing to be enchanted by this beautiful city.

[19:57] Tim Rice: The opera house was still under construction, and the cosmopolitan buzz that's such a characteristic of Sydney these days had barely begun to sound, but its matchless harbour and beaches, its relaxed and open people, its sun, its space, its architecture, mixing so many traditional 19th and 20th century English styles in both city and suburbs, with a twist or mantle of indigenous modernity and provision for a warmer climate.

[20:22] Tim Rice: All this was more than what was needed to ensure my first taste of Australia would not be my last. I loved hearing pop hits from the 50s and the 60s on the Sydney's Oldie stations, which I'd never come across before, and which brought back many happy memories of a time I'd never known.

[20:40] Tim Rice: Cole Joy, Johnny O'Keefe, Slim Dusty. How is it possible to feel nostalgic for times and places one never experienced in the first place?

[20:50] Tim Rice: Sydney on the opening night was extremely warm. An exciting feature of the evening was an attempt at sabotage at halftime, when an unknown hand, allegedly that of an affronted Christian, cut the main cable linking the conductor to his orchestra via closed circuit television.

[21:08] Tim Rice: The Twelve Apostles and Jesus came out to begin the second act, unaware of this communications breakdown, and patiently sat at the table waiting for the opening orchestral notes.

[21:20] Tim Rice: After a few minutes, it was clear that something was wrong, unless Jim Sharman had decided at the last moment to include a biting attack on slow restaurant service.

[21:31] Tim Rice: Our Lord and his disciples eventually shuffled off, and the audience sat for another three-quarters of an hour before the main course was finally served. No one seemed to mind too much about the hold up except for a few critics, meeting deadlines, ho ho, although the Capitol Theatre did get swelteringly hot as the air conditioning seemed to have packed up in sympathy.

[21:51] Tim Rice: The principal result was extra column inches in the press next morning. The saboteur was never caught.

[21:58] Tim Rice: Sharman replaced the tricksy complex tacky elements of O'Horgan's staging by an almost Spartan space age set. Much of the scenery, dominated by a huge dodecahedron, was clear plastic, and the costumes from no identifiable time nor place.

[22:16] Tim Rice: Jim treated Superstar with considerable respect, in contrast with O'Horgan's apparent wish to emphasize brashness, vulgarity, and shock value. Not that these are not elements of the piece, but I never felt they were the most important ones.

[22:31] Tim Rice: Nonetheless, Sharman's version was highly innovative and very much of its time, very unbroadway. The cast was strong, led by Major Oz rocker John English as Judas and Trevor White as Jesus.

[22:44] Tim Rice: I took a great liking to Jim. Although I had a few reservations about some of his ideas, I was more than happy when Robert offered and Jim accepted the London job.

[22:53] Tim Rice: I still make a point of calling Jim whenever I'm in Sydney, which I hope to have the opportunity to do again before too long. Jim stated before the Sydney show even opened that he would not be simply repeating himself in the West End.

[23:06] Tim Rice: The Sydney show was a big hit. In London, Jim did not repeat himself, and it was even bigger.

[23:13] Tim Rice: Here's the late great Aussie star John English as Judas in the Australian original cast of Superstar.

[23:45] Tim Rice: And if you strip away the myth of the man you will see where we all soon will be.

[24:30] Tim Rice: Listen, Jesus, I don't like what I see. All I ask is that you listen to me And remember I've been your right hand all along For you I've set them all on fire They think they found the new sight of They are that you when they find the wrong Look I remember when this whole thing began No talk of God then we called you a man And believe me admiration for you hasn't died But every word you say today gets twisted round some other way Oh and they know that you think you like to your famous son Philip State the Great I know I guess all I would need a ring good Table stairs and open chest What else can they just Either calls nobody up No I alarm Listen Jesus Do you care for your race?

[25:43] Tim Rice: Can't you see we must keep in our place For we are occupied Have you forgotten how potential we are I am frightened by the crowds For we are getting much too loud They are cautious we go too far There we go Listen Listen Jesus the warning I give Please remember that I won't talk to me It was beautiful, but now it's down.

[26:48] Tim Rice: PS and for Sun Jesus. Please remember that I want us to live. Don't do this too bad. It's all coming.

[27:39] Tim Rice: That was episode 57 of Get On to My Cloud. Written and presented by me, Tim Rice. And produced, come to journey by Peter Holt.