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[0:00] Tim Rice: Hello, this is Tim Rice, and this is episode 61 of my podcast, Get On to My Cloud.

[0:18] Tim Rice: Before I wade into the gripping topic featured in this episode of Get On to My Cloud, episode 61, I think I should repeat a sentence from episode 60, which was the story of the Society of Distinguished Songwriters, or Sods.

[0:33] Tim Rice: I listed, I thought, a complete list of my fellow composers and lyricists whose company and artistry I have enjoyed so much for nearly 50 years.

[0:43] Tim Rice: The sentence I must repeat is, quote, I'm terrified of missing any sod out, as I love them all equally, but my lawyers are primed to field any complaints. Unquote.

[0:56] Tim Rice: Well, before the lawyers leap into action, I must apologize profusely for not including Guy Fletcher, the late Doug Flett, Eddie Sigo, and Steve Booker in the list of runners and riders.

[1:07] Tim Rice: They've been far too polite to complain, or more likely never listened to my podcasts, but others have politely and rightly hauled me over the coals on their behalf.

[1:17] Tim Rice: Mike Batt also had a go at me for bad grammar, but I can live with that.

[1:21] Tim Rice: I just hope a list of sods I forgot to mention won't become a regular feature of future podcasts.

[1:28] Tim Rice: And now, get on to my cloud 61 proper.

[1:35] Tim Rice: The extraordinary success of the Jesus Christ Superstar album in America in 1971 meant that the first time Andrew Lloyd Webber and I had a show presented professionally anywhere in the world was on Broadway in October of that year, when Robert Stigwood's production of Tom O'Horgan's staging of the work opened at the Mark Hellinger Theatre.

[1:57] Tim Rice: Andrew and I had been hailed as marketing geniuses for issuing an album of a new show's score before the actual show, which I'm afraid we were not.

[2:07] Tim Rice: Not marketing geniuses, that is.

[2:09] Tim Rice: We'd only done this because no theatrical producer had shown any interest in the work.

[2:14] Tim Rice: When it became a number one album, the best selling album in America that year, quite a few theatrical producers got in touch.

[2:21] Tim Rice: Robert Stigwood beat off rival opposition, and David Land, our manager, did the deals to give the Stigwood organization the rights to produce the show worldwide.

[2:32] Tim Rice: Although the album had done pretty well in many other countries besides America, it hadn't made a great impact in the UK.

[2:39] Tim Rice: So it made total sense to launch the next phase of the rock opera's life on Broadway, rather than in our home patch of London's West End.

[2:48] Tim Rice: However, the Broadway show, which I described in some detail in Get Onto My Cloud episode 11, was a bit of a curate's egg and never came near matching the phenomenal impact of the Superstar album, neither critically nor commercially.

[3:04] Tim Rice: Nonetheless, by early 1972, even in those pre-internet, pre-mobile phone days, interest in Superstar had trickled back across the Atlantic, and it seemed that a West Ending would be a good bet.

[3:18] Tim Rice: A reasonable one anyway, but not Tom O'Horgan's version.

[3:23] Tim Rice: In the meantime, other stage versions of Superstar were emerging around the world.

[3:27] Tim Rice: Rather than hold them back in order to let London have the first non-American crack at the show, we were quite happy to let them rip as A, this prevented pirate versions, the theatrical equivalent of bootleg albums surfacing all over the shop, and B, someone might come up with a version that would be right for London.

[3:46] Tim Rice: For some unknown reason, the first European version to emerge was in Denmark.

[3:51] Tim Rice: The show was in Danish, so I was not sure whether my take on the immortal story was fully appreciated or not.

[3:57] Tim Rice: But it was well staged, energetically performed, and very successful.

[4:02] Tim Rice: The highlight of my trip to Copenhagen to see the show, however, was finding myself sitting next to John Fogerty, legendary leader of Creedence Clearwater Revival on the plane out.

[4:13] Tim Rice: I recognized him immediately, but could not understand what he was doing on a flight from London to Copenhagen.

[4:20] Tim Rice: It was clearly not a business trip or a concert trip, as there was no one else on the Creedence payroll on the flight.

[4:26] Tim Rice: Once I found the nerve to introduce myself and confirm that it really was him, we had several turbulence calming glasses together, during which I asked him, rather rudely, really, whether he ever resented criticism that Creedence were a three-chord group.

[4:43] John Fogerty: Three-chord group? We're a two-chord group.

[4:46] Tim Rice: Indeed, many of his greatest songs, such as "Green River" and "Bad Moon Rising," were simplicity itself. But therein lay their greatness.

[5:39] Tim Rice: I know the end is coming soon.

[5:45] Tim Rice: I feel rivers overflowing.

[5:50] Tim Rice: I hear the voice of race of ruin.

[5:55] Tim Rice: Don't go around tonight.

[6:33] Tim Rice: Hope you have quite a fair today.

[6:38] Tim Rice: Looks like we're in for nasty weather.

[6:43] Tim Rice: One eye is taking it for an act.

[6:48] Tim Rice: Well, don't go around tonight.

[6:54] Tim Rice: There's a bad moon on the rise.

[6:59] Tim Rice: Don't come around tonight.

[7:02] Tim Rice: But it's finally take your deck.

[7:16] Tim Rice: The group, led and masterminded by John Fogerty, shot to worldwide popularity shortly before the release of the Jesus Christ Superstar album and had become one of my favorite acts.

[7:27] Tim Rice: I paid an obscure tribute to Fogerty and Superstar.

[7:31] Tim Rice: Caiaphas, the high priest at one point sings, not "I see a bad moon rising," but "I see bad things arising."

[7:48] Tim Rice: The Pharisees and priests are here for you.

[8:26] Tim Rice: A trick or two with levers, and the whole town's on its feet.

[8:45] Tim Rice: The man is in town right now to whip up some support.

[8:51] Tim Rice: A rabble-rousing mission that I think we must abode.

[8:57] Tim Rice: He's taken us.

[9:05] Tim Rice: He's taken us.

[9:10] Tim Rice: Look, I bass, they're right outside our yard.

[9:14] Tim Rice: Quick IFS, go call the Roman god.

[9:17] Tim Rice: No wait.

[9:19] Tim Rice: We need a more permanent solution to our problem.

[9:27] Tim Rice: What about Jesus of Nazareth?

[9:31] Tim Rice: Miracle, wonderman, heroes.

[9:34] Tim Rice: No riots, no army, no fighting, no slogans.

[9:38] Tim Rice: One thing I'll say for him, Jesus is cool.

[9:41] Tim Rice: We dare not leave him to his own devices.

[9:44] Tim Rice: His half-witted fans will get out of control.

[9:48] Tim Rice: But how can we stop him?

[9:49] Tim Rice: His glamour increases by leaps every minute.

[9:53] Tim Rice: He's top of the wall.

[10:05] Tim Rice: Our elimination because of one man.

[10:09] Tim Rice: Blood and destruction, because of one man, because of one man, our elimination, because of one man, because of one cause, a one cause of one man.

[10:25] Tim Rice: What can you do about this Jesus may?

[10:28] Tim Rice: How do we deal with the carpenter king?

[10:32] Tim Rice: Where do we start with a man who is bigger than John was when John did his baptism?

[10:39] Tim Rice: Who's you have no perception?

[10:42] Tim Rice: The stakes we are gambling are frighteningly high.

[10:46] Tim Rice: We must crush him completely.

[10:49] Tim Rice: So like jump before him, this Jesus must die for the sake of the nation.

[10:49] Tim Rice: This Jesus must die, must die, must die.

[10:54] Tim Rice: This Jesus must die.

[11:00] Tim Rice: So like jump before him.

[10:58] Tim Rice: This Jesus must die, must die, must die.

[11:05] Tim Rice: This Jesus must, Jesus must, Jesus must die.

[11:12] Tim Rice: The great blues man Victor Brox as Caiaphas with Brian Keith as Annas.

[11:16] Tim Rice: And I think I had a line in there somewhere with "This Jesus Must Die" from the original 1970 recording before any stage show was contemplated, let alone planned.

[11:28] Tim Rice: Following Copenhagen, in the first half of 1972, I went to openings of Superstar in Paris, in Munster in Germany, in Stockholm, and in Sydney.

[11:38] Tim Rice: Incidentally, in Stockholm, the cast included Agnetha Fältskog.

[11:42] Tim Rice: Both future ABBA stars, Agnetha and Frida, recorded Swedish language versions of songs from the score.

[11:49] Tim Rice: Because of the general lack of confidence in the O'Horgan version, all of these productions were brand new and none bore any resemblance to the Broadway show.

[11:57] Tim Rice: It was extremely useful for us to see other ways it could be done before we set up in the West End.

[12:03] Tim Rice: Robert, moving at breakneck speed, determined to open the West End show at the Palace Theatre in August.

[12:11] Tim Rice: Having seen five different treatments of Superstar in a little over six months, it was no surprise to me that Jim Sharman, the director in Sydney, got the vote to recreate his Aussie success in London.

[12:23] Tim Rice: Except that he didn't actually recreate it, but improved upon it.

[12:28] Tim Rice: Robert Stigwood's amazing energy continued in full flow as he set to work in the spring of 1972 to bring our hit show home.

[12:36] Tim Rice: The American and indeed near global success of Superstar had at last penetrated British indifference to their two young countrymen's theatrical achievements, and we were not short of advanced publicity or bookings.

[12:49] Tim Rice: The album even lurched into the UK charts, selling consistently rather than sensationally.

[12:56] Tim Rice: Jim Sharman took quiet and measured control, and casting proceeded speedily.

[13:01] Tim Rice: The part of Jesus went to Paul Nicholas, then a young singer-actor, who'd made an impact in Robert's London production of Hair.

[13:09] Tim Rice: The less established Stephen Tate won the part of Judas, and the role of Mary eventually settled upon Dana Gillespie, after the original lady selected proved unsuitable, not untalented, but not right.

[13:22] Tim Rice: And Dana was promoted from the chorus at the 11th hour during previews.

[13:38] Tim Rice: Paul was signed as Herod and John Parker as Pilate.

[13:43] Tim Rice: Among total unknowns in the chorus was a young actress named Elaine Page.

[13:48] Tim Rice: The entire cast proved highly satisfactory and morale was high.

[13:53] Tim Rice: I do recall, however, a brief panic over costumes, which were changed radically from semi caveman to timeless desert chic about two nights before opening.

[14:02] Tim Rice: But all went pretty smoothly during previews.

[14:05] Tim Rice: The only other hiccup was when Andrew and I had a pre-opening panic and drove to Robert's mansion in Stanmore, under an hour from London, to beg Robert to cancel or at least postpone the opening night.

[14:15] Tim Rice: Andrew even convinced me that we were heading for irretrievable disaster if we didn't send Jim and his cast packing the next morning.

[14:23] Tim Rice: Robert dealt with our ludicrous quest with tact, calm, and a lot of champagne.

[14:29] Tim Rice: One of the features of the London show was that the cast were such nice people, or stoned at least.

[14:35] Tim Rice: Paul Nicholas is one of the most unpretentious and amusing characters in British entertainment, and I've never been surprised by his subsequent substantial success, doing well in almost every field of entertainment, as a pop singer, musical actor, TV star, and theatrical producer, even a tightrope walker in Barnum.

[14:56] Tim Rice: Paul sang Jesus like a bell, fortunately keeping his wonderfully filthy laugh for off-stage activities, sometimes difficult when one heard of the tricks played on stage during the show.

[15:06] Tim Rice: Paul shuddered every time he opened a chalice during The Last Supper, knowing that some inappropriate memento of backstage life would inevitably have been placed therein.

[15:17] Tim Rice: Dana Gillespie, who'd achieved a certain notoriety via her appearance in Bob Dylan's documentary of his 1965 tour of Britain, and it must be said via her voluptuous beauty, was wonderfully earthy as Mary and gave the song an edge that even approached Yvonne Elleman's interpretation.

[15:35] Tim Rice: She is, of course, now one of Britain's most respected ever female blues singers and has recorded well over 60 albums.

[15:43] Tim Rice: Stephen Tate was strong on anguish and in voice, a fine tormented contrast to Paul's ethereal Jesus.

[15:50] Tim Rice: Paul Jabara delivered Herod with extraordinary camp panache, white suit and tails, glitz and degeneracy.

[15:58] Tim Rice: John Parker expertly conveyed Pilate's anguish and confusion.

[16:03] Tim Rice: There were no weak links, even down to the humblest member of the supporting cast.

[16:07] Tim Rice: I wish I could state that Elaine stood out, but she was merely one of many great movers and singers.

[16:13] Tim Rice: No one watching the original London show would have named her then as the one to become the biggest star of all, but only because they all seemed capable of almost anything.

[16:24] Tim Rice: Jim's show was very different from his Australian production, which in turn had been a drastic contrast to Broadway.

[16:31] Tim Rice: The set was stark and bare, the central playing area a large box with a slightly raked lit floor, surrounded by three walls, wide and high, over which members of the chorus clambered throughout the evening.

[16:44] Tim Rice: A Piccadilly Circus type display of lights flashed up occasional words of information, such as Jerusalem, Sunday.

[16:51] Tim Rice: The simplicity of the basic staging generously allowed the words and music to become the main driving force of the story.

[16:59] Tim Rice: But there were many moments of great visual impact, primarily through the movements of the swirling chorus, with lights, dry ice, colourful banners, and artful choreography by Rufus Collins.

[17:10] Tim Rice: The technology, in particular, the merging of the rock section and orchestra had advanced hugely in the ten months since Broadway.

[17:19] Tim Rice: There was also a good deal of humor, which always helps.

[17:22] Tim Rice: The priests and Herod were both jokey and sinister.

[17:26] Tim Rice: The crucifixion was spectacular but restrained, as the cross rose from the depths during the final moments of the show.

[17:34] Tim Rice: It was particularly restrained on the opening night when a safety catch clicked into action for over a minute, trapping Paul on the cross in the basement.

[17:42] Tim Rice: This delay seemed like an hour to conductor, orchestra, and cast, all desperately holding on to one note of anguish, which anguish they did not have to act to convey.

[17:52] Tim Rice: Two panic-stricken authors standing at the back of the stalls wondered whether they should rush out onto stage to apologize or rush out of the Palace Theatre and their careers in musicals altogether.

[18:04] Tim Rice: But eventually, the contraption lurched into action, by which time most of the theatre had been filled with smoke that had been pumped up for much longer than intended.

[18:12] Tim Rice: If anything, the delay added to the dramatic tension of the climax of the show.

[18:18] Tim Rice: By the time Superstar opened in London on the 9th of August 1972, it was established in Britain as a cultural phenomenon, albeit a more middle-of-the-road one that it had been in the countries that had gone for it in a big way from record one.

[18:32] Tim Rice: Robert's opening night party at his home in Stanmore was a tremendous bash, complete with a couple of fights and mass skinny dipping.

[18:39] Tim Rice: It was clear that the show was going to be a massive hit, and by and large, the reviews were not too bad at all.

[18:45] Tim Rice: However, Superstar never won any significant awards during its initial spell of glory in the early 70s.

[18:52] Tim Rice: It missed out on Grammys, Tonys, and British theatrical prizes such as the Evening Standard Awards.

[18:58] Tim Rice: We were briefly miffed by this, but after David Land told us he could probably get the shows that had defeated us to give us their trophies if we gave them our box office take.

[19:09] Tim Rice: It didn't seem to matter so much.

[19:11] Tim Rice: Applause was the British Evening Standard Best Musical.

[19:15] Tim Rice: Two Gentlemen of Verona won the Broadway Tony for Best Musical, in which category Superstar was not even nominated.

[19:22] Tim Rice: Carol King's Tapestry beat us for Grammy Album of the Year, which was totally understandable.

[19:28] Tim Rice: My attitude to awards ever since may well have been fueled by these early rejections.

[19:34] Tim Rice: I'm unable to take any of them very seriously, although by and large, I'd rather win than lose.

[19:39] Tim Rice: The ones I had won over the years seem more often than not to have been for the wrong things or for just turning up.

[19:45] Tim Rice: But it's easy to say that when you've had more than your fair share of the trips to the winner's circle.

[19:50] Tim Rice: To close, here from the original London cast recording, are Dana Gillespie and Richard Barnes as Peter with a song that was not on the original hit album but written for Broadway, which gave Mary Magdalene something worthwhile to sing in the second act.

[20:06] Tim Rice: It worked well on Broadway, and it worked well in London, so it's been kept in all subsequent versions.

[20:12] Tim Rice: And the song is Could We Start Again, please.

[20:12] ♪ Musical number: "Could We Start Again, Please" — performed by Dana Gillespie and Richard Barnes ♪

[23:22] Tim Rice: That was episode sixty-one of my podcast, Get Onto My Cloud. Written and presented by me, Tim Rice, and produced with casual awareness by Peter Hobbes.