This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Joe Carroll: Well, old friends, dump tenant, Seth, old friends.

[0:05] Dan Tracy: We are old friends, old friends, we are old friends, and we're friends.

[0:11] Joe Carroll: Just massacring my ears.

[0:13] Dan Tracy: Jesus.

[0:14] Joe Carroll: Come on.

[0:15] Dan Tracy: Welcome to Guys Who Like Musicals.

[0:20] Joe Carroll: Welcome to Guys Who Like Musicals.

[0:18] Dan Tracy: I'm Joe Carroll.

[0:19] Dan Tracy: I'm Dan Tracy.

[0:20] Dan Tracy: And we are the guys who like musicals.

[0:22] Joe Carroll: So an actor is saying his lines.

[0:25] Dan Tracy: And then out of nowhere, he just starts singing.

[0:30] Joe Carroll: Boss Eximity.

[0:38] Dan Tracy: Don't cry for me.

[0:47] Joe Carroll: And we're old friends.

[0:49] Dan Tracy: And this week we're talking to an old friend.

[0:51] Joe Carroll: Yes, we are.

[0:51] Dan Tracy: Our friend Ashley Park.

[0:53] Joe Carroll: Tony nominated Ashley Park.

[0:56] Dan Tracy: Which is insane.

[0:57] Joe Carroll: We didn't even get to really ask her about that.

[0:59] Dan Tracy: I know.

[1:00] Joe Carroll: We were like, we covered a lot of ground.

[1:03] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[1:04] Dan Tracy: But I was trying to lead her slightly with one question about, you know, how musical theater changes your life and to see if she was gonna maybe go into the Tony Awards, but it was like actually she just skipped over that, which is totally fine.

[1:15] Joe Carroll: Right.

[1:15] Dan Tracy: This was really fun.

[1:17] Joe Carroll: She's really funny.

[1:19] Dan Tracy: We have known each other since college.

[1:22] Dan Tracy: We've known each other for a million years, and she was at my wedding, and we have this habit of going to each other's closing night performances.

[1:33] Joe Carroll: I saw her last performance of Grand Horizons, which I absolutely loved.

[1:37] Dan Tracy: She has done a million things, most notably obviously Mean Girls, for which she was nominated for a Tony Award.

[1:43] Dan Tracy: The King and I, little known fact, you know, that she made her Broadway debut in Mamma Mia, which we didn't also get into, which is amazing to think back on now.

[1:54] Joe Carroll: She's currently working on a show.

[1:56] Dan Tracy: I think she was in the closing cast of Mamma Mia.

[1:59] Joe Carroll: Oh, that's right.

[2:00] Dan Tracy: That's right.

[2:01] Dan Tracy: And she's working on a show right now called Emily in Paris for Paramount TV.

[2:07] Joe Carroll: She was in the Sunday in the Park with George revival.

[2:10] Dan Tracy: I mean, it's just like her resume is stupid.

[2:12] Joe Carroll: She originated the stepsister in the Cinderella tour.

[2:17] Dan Tracy: I mean, like, if you just look at the stuff that she's accomplished in what is actually a very short amount of time, it's pretty remarkable.

[2:26] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[2:27] Dan Tracy: But we talk about all sorts of fun stuff this week, and I think it's a real insight.

[2:33] Dan Tracy: It got kind of emotional, and we talked about our friendship and we talked about the things that make her tick.

[2:39] Dan Tracy: One of the things that I'm always fascinated about with funny people is just why they are funny and how they are funny and when did they discover they were funny.

[2:46] Joe Carroll: Talking to Ashley about the transition truly from The King and I, which can't really get more dramatic than "I Have Dreamed," to Gretchen is pretty fun.

[3:02] Dan Tracy: Yeah, and she's kind of one of these people who, like, is— I mean this with the utmost respect—she sometimes is a bit unhinged, and her ability to harness being unhinged has been the thing that I think makes her sparkle.

[3:18] Dan Tracy: She gets into that a little bit, where it's about following these gut impulses.

[3:23] Dan Tracy: She's one of those people who just kind of doesn't hold back and just throws paint on the wall, and that has really always worked for her.

[3:29] Dan Tracy: I think is a lesson that I take away from being friends with her and from this episode.

[3:36] Joe Carroll: Yeah, yeah.

[3:37] Dan Tracy: It was so—yeah, we hope that you like it.

[3:40] Joe Carroll: She compliments our show for like the first ten minutes.

[3:43] Dan Tracy: We always like that because our egos are ridiculous.

[3:49] Joe Carroll: Yeah, this is—I'm trying to think of other favorite parts, but I think—any other things we should touch on this week? Is there anything happening in the news?

[3:49] Dan Tracy: She's actually performing at the Drama Desk ceremony this weekend.

[3:49] Joe Carroll: Yes, so if you're watching this kind of concurrent with its release on Friday, May 29th or whatever, you can check her out in that performance.

[3:49] Dan Tracy: But also there's a bunch of cool online performances coming up.

[3:49] Joe Carroll: Broadway World is doing something the night which would have been the Tonys.

[3:49] Dan Tracy: The New York Times is doing an event which Julie has been working on that is Broadway-centric and performance-centric.

[3:49] Joe Carroll: So there's a lot of cool stuff kind of coming up that you should all check out, and let us know what you think about that.

[4:39] Dan Tracy: It's just like another one of these— we're a professional Broadway insider podcast because Ashley's performing this weekend, and here she is on our show.

[4:47] Joe Carroll: That's right.

[4:48] Dan Tracy: Not a big deal. How great is that? Thank you for listening.

[4:53] Joe Carroll: Yeah, I think without further ado, we'll get into our friend Ashley Park.

[4:53] Ashley Park: Let's hop in.

[4:53] Ashley Park: Throughout this time, I started listening to like Daxes, and then when you guys asked me, I was like, I've listened to snippets of your guys's, but like I really listened to a few episodes.

[5:30] Ashley Park: Guys, I think the best compliment I could give anybody, like when you go watch someone's show, it's like I forgot you were my friend.

[5:36] Ashley Park: Like, guys, I started crying when I was like—I said this to you in the text, but really like because I forgot like you guys are like Broadway guys, and like the things that you were saying and like how you put things and like you're just so articulate and like real.

[5:36] Ashley Park: I was like really, really proud and like moved.

[5:57] Ashley Park: I was like, oh my god, this is like Joe and Dan, and like I would listen, I would listen to this.

[6:02] Ashley Park: Like, I don't think we really had podcasts when we were younger or whatever, but like, oh yeah, oh my god, everything you're saying is so valuable, the things that you share and like your perspective, and you're not like bullshitting it.

[6:14] Ashley Park: It's like you've earned this perspective, and like we've all—like you've really done it, and like it was just—I'm like I was really, really happy.

[6:24] Joe Carroll: Thank you.

[6:25] Ashley Park: I think, you know, for us, it's like we're also tracking our own journey, you know.

[6:30] Ashley Park: Like that's been the coolest part is like we're learning as we go while we're hosting too, which is really fun.

[6:36] Ashley Park: But it's like the perfect balance of it all, you know.

[6:39] Ashley Park: Like you really like are using this platform in such a good way to like—I feel like everybody who shares something, it really is helpful.

[6:47] Ashley Park: I found myself being like, oh right, oh yeah, right.

[6:50] Ashley Park: Oh my gosh, yeah, oh yeah.

[6:51] Ashley Park: Speaking out loud to myself as if I was in a conversation with you guys, not just listening to your podcast.

[6:59] Joe Carroll: But here you are.

[7:00] Ashley Park: That's actually great.

[7:01] Joe Carroll: Yeah, well, here you are, and you decided that my question is for you guys, not to like turn it on you guys, but just for me, like when did you guys—why did you guys decide to do this?

[7:10] Dan Tracy: How we do most things, I was sent Joe's—I sent Joe about 14 text messages in a row, like simultaneous dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot.

[7:18] Dan Tracy: I was like, I have an idea for a podcast, you're gonna host it with me.

[7:18] Dan Tracy: It's called Guys Who Like Musicals, it's gonna be us, but it's about musicals.

[7:24] Dan Tracy: We're gonna do this and that.

[7:25] Joe Carroll: And he's just like, great.

[7:28] Dan Tracy: That's how I remember it.

[7:29] Joe Carroll: I don't know.

[7:32] Ashley Park: I love that it's like, oh, then they sing, and then like all the things.

[7:36] Dan Tracy: And I was like, yeah, what—who did that already?

[7:40] Joe Carroll: Dan did. Dan does everything technical, and I'm technically inept.

[7:44] Dan Tracy: So he made the—yeah, so he made that.

[7:46] Dan Tracy: So we'll make sure that you're recording because I screw up the recording about once every two weeks.

[7:52] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[7:52] Dan Tracy: But I remember it, Dan.

[7:54] Joe Carroll: I remember you saying, like, you had all the gear and you were like, I want to do something, because you had all of this video equipment and all of this stuff, and it was like, let's do something with this.

[8:03] Dan Tracy: But I'm pretty sure I came up with the name.

[8:05] Joe Carroll: Oh, I think that I came up with the name.

[8:09] Dan Tracy: And I'd like—we could go back to the record and figure that out.

[8:12] Joe Carroll: But the name is so Dan.

[8:12] Dan Tracy: So Dan thought of the concept.

[8:19] Joe Carroll: And then I might have to fight you on that one.

[8:25] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[8:25] Dan Tracy: It doesn't matter.

[8:26] Joe Carroll: Well, I don't really remember that.

[8:28] Dan Tracy: But I think it was coming out of this place like we wanted to make something, and we always have lofty aspirations to write movies and make TV shows, and it's like, well, actually, what can you do?

[8:38] Dan Tracy: We could make a podcast.

[8:40] Dan Tracy: We have a couple of microphones, and we have this vat of useless information that is, you know, stuff about Broadway, so like let's talk about it.

[8:47] Joe Carroll: It's not even information, it's experience, and like what we learn more and more in this business is like there's no black or white or right or—you know, like we all—yeah, we all—like that's what I think that's why I was so moved.

[8:59] Ashley Park: I was like, oh my god, like the experience is there now, you know?

[8:59] Ashley Park: Because every single person's perspective is their own, and you like—no one's will ever be the same, so you can just take little pieces from people and share them.

[8:59] Ashley Park: And, you know, that's what we're here for.

[9:15] Joe Carroll: Isn't it funny how like you kind of—everyone's experiences are so different, but we always kind of come back to like the same place a little bit?

[9:15] Ashley Park: Like now, like in the business, we run into—when I run into people, especially, I'm like, oh, they get it.

[9:27] Ashley Park: Oh, he gets it. Oh, she gets it.

[9:27] Ashley Park: It doesn't mean like, oh, he has this credit or she has this thing on—like it's like, oh, we get it.

[9:27] Joe Carroll: We know what it is now.

[9:27] Dan Tracy: Like we know the work.

[9:27] Dan Tracy: What do you think that is?

[9:27] Ashley Park: Well, and I was actually gonna say, like you've had—I feel like Ashley, you've had it right, and I don't know what it is, but I don't—you've had that it thing since the moment—

[9:27] Ashley Park: Isn't it like a scary clown or something?

[9:27] Joe Carroll: Okay, great.

[9:27] Ashley Park: Right, great.

[9:27] Ashley Park: Let's change the story.

[9:27] Ashley Park: But I feel like since I've known you, you've had this like—you know, like Ashley gets it.

[9:27] Joe Carroll: Ashley, you know what I mean?

[9:27] Ashley Park: And so I wonder, like, what is that to you since we've met?

[9:27] Ashley Park: You really think I knew what it was?

[9:27] Joe Carroll: Okay, well, listen, like I was about to say professionally, we just don't let each other be as profound as we can because I feel like this is gonna be—everyone's gonna be like, wow, I really thought Ashley's interview was gonna be really informational.

[9:27] Ashley Park: It's just gonna be a lot of, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[10:33] Dan Tracy: That's amazing.

[10:35] Ashley Park: Yeah, but no, I mean, I just—I do feel like, you know, from a work perspective, from a business perspective, from the industry, musical theater, for all of this stuff since we've known you, like you've been incredibly focused.

[10:49] Ashley Park: And so I wonder back to Dan's question, like what is it for you?

[10:52] Ashley Park: Like, what is that like when you see somebody who's like—they got it, they get it?

[10:56] Ashley Park: What is that?

[10:57] Ashley Park: Well, um, I think first of all, I think it's people who really, really take their work seriously, but don't take themselves so seriously.

[11:05] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[11:05] Ashley Park: And I think that's like hard to do when we're like trying to prove ourselves to ourselves a little bit still, you know?

[11:12] Ashley Park: And I think that like for me, what I found at least in the past, like it's—you know, and like in reflecting a little bit too, and you kind of find yourself in a place, you know, like we're still just living day by day a little bit, you know?

[11:12] Ashley Park: Like even in the business, yeah, sure, you've been on Broadway, you've been on da da da da, any of these things, like we're kind of living in the present.

[11:30] Ashley Park: And I think that like for me, I found that like what is definitive of like my life and my career is acting, and then when I meet somebody in the same vein, is the people who like really cherish the people and the experience they're with.

[11:45] Ashley Park: I really do think that like my priority has always been trying to find like a home and a family in wherever I work.

[11:51] Ashley Park: And that I—even if I wasn't like planning to make that a priority, that that's what I've realized has been my through line a little bit.

[12:01] Ashley Park: And I think that in that way, that's the standard of like the work that I do now and the people that I'm around now.

[12:10] Joe Carroll: That's something that I really like value.

[12:12] Ashley Park: Yeah, um, yeah, I love that.

[12:12] Ashley Park: And I think that that's back to like why we all started this nonsense in the first place.

[12:18] Ashley Park: It's like you're doing the high school musical, and you're like, oh my god, you know, where I found a community, I found a family, I've found a people who, you know, accept me and get me, and now we're just trying to recreate that, but have someone pay us to do it.

[12:31] Joe Carroll: It's kind of like, you know.

[12:33] Ashley Park: Right, right.

[12:34] Ashley Park: It's like kind of not that complicated, but it's also very—

[12:34] Dan Tracy: Well, I think we have to get it in our heads where like I think, you know, people ask, why you—why did you—or for like for me, I think we grow up thinking that like if something is fun, then it can't possibly be work.

[12:54] Ashley Park: Right.

[12:54] Dan Tracy: That's what's so crazy is that like we do this because when we are—like I think a lot of people tell young people, especially, hey, if you can do anything else, then do it.

[13:03] Ashley Park: And I actually think that's not great advice.

[13:06] Dan Tracy: Like I actually—and a lot of people told me that.

[13:08] Dan Tracy: And I actually think the people who are really successful in this business or this industry or in life can do a lot of other things.

[13:15] Dan Tracy: And I think that the real thing is you love it, then keep doing it.

[13:19] Dan Tracy: And if you don't—if you stop loving it, it's not that you shouldn't do it or can't do it, but like it's so—it's hard and so fulfilling what we do.

[13:27] Ashley Park: And like the only way to keep doing it is that if you really, really love it, you know?

[13:32] Joe Carroll: I think that's so valuable.

[13:34] Ashley Park: And I've always hated that advice too.

[13:35] Ashley Park: I've always hated the like if you can't do anything, you know, if you can do anything else, go do it.

[13:40] Joe Carroll: 'Cause like I know for all three of us, it's like, no, I'll go do something else.

[13:44] Ashley Park: Yeah.

[13:44] Ashley Park: Like I would be like, yeah, look, you're doing this.

[13:46] Joe Carroll: I mean, yeah.

[13:47] Ashley Park: And like, but the thing is, it's like we also love—like I think the more and more we're in this business, we realize it's just so much about people.

[13:54] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[13:54] Ashley Park: And like navigating and like relationships and friendships and like also what we're doing, like as actors, we're like finding the truth in like another person and like empathizing as much as we can, you know, and then like doing it in front of a live audience of strangers every night and trying to relate to them in some way.

[14:09] Ashley Park: Yeah, and we'll never talk to them again, you know. And so like I think even though people say, "Oh, it's so hard," you know, like all of this stuff, like the reason we love it is because it's hard.

[14:19] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[14:20] Ashley Park: Or else we wouldn't be making it, right?

[14:22] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[14:23] Ashley Park: Yeah, I know I love all of that. I think we're gonna kind of just jump all over because we have, I know both of us, we have a million questions for you and we don't want to take you away from the Florida sun too much.

[14:35] Ashley Park: And whatever, because I just go back whenever I'm like with, you know, even with my own family. It was so funny because I was quarantining with them and like for two and over two months, you know.

[14:45] Ashley Park: And like at a certain point I was like, oh my gosh, I have to like also leave time for like to be with you guys.

[14:45] Joe Carroll: Yes.

[14:45] Ashley Park: Be with you guys. Like here I am like with all this time with you and then I haven't seen you in a couple days.

[14:56] Dan Tracy: But no we're totally fine.

[14:58] Ashley Park: We can talk as much.

[14:59] Joe Carroll: Well you need it.

[15:00] Ashley Park: Well I think because we are a super um we're a super insidery podcast and we always joke about that. We uh we found out that um that the uh that the Jimmy to your Millie was supposed to be Corey Cotton.

[15:16] Dan Tracy: Yeah is that something we can say?

[15:17] Ashley Park: Yeah he said it he said it on our show we broke the news so that was uh so oh okay see so here's the deal is like the mo like what was so fun and I'm sure I mean I I'm not trying to like talk about it you like brought it up you know but like I really was like the saddest part for me about all of that was that like they weren't even announced.

[15:38] Dan Tracy: Like it wasn't about me you know like I was like more like oh my god I wish people would have known that he's gonna be this and like all like the other the the different changes in the different casting and stuff like was really really exciting and it's like they didn't even get to like kind of share that with the world.

[15:50] Joe Carroll: So I'm so glad he shared that and like yeah that was such a full circle thing too.

[15:54] Dan Tracy: And it's gotta be that had to have been one of the biggest bummers I mean not even you we we don't we would never compare like what's actually going on in the world to like people not being able to do their plays you know uh you know but it we do we've we feel for everybody who's lost jobs and shows that didn't happen and shows that didn't open this season or whatever but like not being able to do Thoroughly Modern Millie not being able to play Millie and Thoroughly Modern Millie at City Center that's a that must have been a serious bummer right?

[15:54] Ashley Park: Yeah I mean you know what was interesting actually though was um I think I was the one who called Lear and Encore and was kind of like before even when it was just that we were all gonna go back on April 12th right and we weren't even supposed to start until like later in April.

[16:37] Dan Tracy: So like we adjust you know like um and I wasn't and I and I and I will say this in you know people have reached out a lot and I I was never like actually like sad about it.

[16:48] Ashley Park: This is gonna sound so weird I'm actually just saying this out loud for the first time.

[16:51] Ashley Park: I think for me a couple things like I don't think I had even processed that I was actually going to be able to do this. You know it's like and for me at this point in like life and I I'm sure you guys feel the same way I really do believe like every single thing that has I don't I don't know how to say this like it's not that things happen in the hard way but like when all of that like even when they asked me to do that like all of this stuff I was like this is not this is not the story this is not gonna happen in the way that I think it's gonna happen because every single part of my career everything has come in such like a side way you know and like every time I feel like oh my god I have the exact plan I know exactly what this is like every everything's in it like something completely wild happens and it always turns up for the better you know and so like when when it was like really officially announced that it was postponed canceled whatever I was like oh yeah that makes sense.

[17:44] Joe Carroll: Yeah which is like such a weird you know and not and of course I'm bummed but like I also think at this point like we we trust our gut and like I know it's going to happen right in some way I know that the work that we had done with it and like the the changes that like it that Janine and Dick and Lear and like everybody was like going to be making and like me too you know like I think that it would be very exciting when it does happen and it was kind of like I I don't know like this this this like I I don't know yeah it I I think it I hope it does.

[18:20] Ashley Park: I hope it I really that was what we were saying talking to Corey about was like it's gotta happen like it will happen I th I hope I I hope that it's almost the story of Millie a little bit it's like it's very much like like now like when it does happen it's like we're here and we're gonna do it.

[18:36] Joe Carroll: You know hi Julie look at her shirt there's Julie and Julie's wearing it to a Guys Who Like Musicals shirt.

[18:42] Ashley Park: Julie's wearing a Guys Who Like Musicals shirt yes you want one Joe has them he can send them to you and Teddy.

[18:47] Joe Carroll: Yeah oh my gosh I love it.

[18:50] Ashley Park: Okay great great yeah that that's awesome um yeah I mean I just I know that we we all wanted that to happen so desperately like it's just I think that was the most moving part for me though was not even that like I I was like so moved that so many it meant so much to like different kinds of groups of people yeah um and that felt like they were taking the hit a little bit more you know and so like that that's what was like really really moving to me about that that whole thing.

[19:17] Dan Tracy: But um yeah but like I but then now I'm like I guess I do really have a not it's not so much a positive outlook but like I lost something really really big too like an opportunity too and like I just know it's gonna like when when the next it's all gonna make sense at first.

[19:36] Ashley Park: You know like whenever we've gone through a hard time whenever like something doesn't go our way or whenever even even in like life like whether it be like heartbreak, not getting a part, like not having a show like any of those things, like when the next good thing comes around or like being in a in a position or a cast or a part where you're not happy you know like when the next thing comes it is always like that much more beautiful and happy and like that's what we hold on to because we're like oh yeah it makes sense.

[20:03] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[20:04] Ashley Park: Totally totally we never know when it's gonna come until after it's already gone.

[20:09] Dan Tracy: You know and then you think there are not I think that's what like life experience is you know that's like when when something's kind of like going a certain way you're like okay I'm just gonna like it's so scary and also liberating to like really let go of the reins.

[20:22] Ashley Park: Yeah.

[20:23] Joe Carroll: Right.

[20:23] Ashley Park: Yeah.

[20:25] Ashley Park: And it is kind of this time for all of us. Like I mean I'd I I was thinking about this a lot this past week and stuff like actors are really good at being unemployed.

[20:31] Joe Carroll: Um that like this time is for us like we are actually positioned to take care of ourselves a little bit right now.

[20:38] Ashley Park: You know and I think there's a lot of people who aren't you know a lot of people who lose their jobs and that's like the the biggest that's the the biggest thing that's ever happened and for us we deal with that all the time.

[20:48] Dan Tracy: So we're kind of it's so it's biz it's bizarre actually it's not like and no one is ready for this but we're actually emotionally like okay well I I know what I have to do.

[20:57] Ashley Park: Like I was I you know I I was left frozen and I'm like I'm not planning on working for six months.

[21:02] Dan Tracy: That's kind of what what happens, you know.

[21:04] Ashley Park: So right.

[21:06] Ashley Park: But like that's it's it's it's so weird because it's like we have the we're equipped with the tools already because we're so used to constantly being like our future is unknown.

[21:16] Joe Carroll: Like let me in like a month at a time or like a year at a time.

[21:19] Ashley Park: Like maybe I know what I'm doing this next year.

[21:20] Dan Tracy: Crazy I know where I'm gonna live.

[21:22] Ashley Park: Oh my gosh can you believe you know like we're we we're we are equipped to be resilient in that way but um it is really bizarre to have like the whole world kind of being in that same headspace that we like not thrive in but we're like kind of forced to survive and thrive forced to survive and also like yeah right yeah yeah yeah it's crazy it's crazy.

[21:43] Joe Carroll: Um all right where do we want to go Joe?

[21:45] Dan Tracy: Yeah well I I we can just it's one of these weird ones where like when we talk to people we don't know very well I think kind of go through like their whole thing.

[21:54] Ashley Park: No let's just shit guys.

[21:57] Joe Carroll: Because it's kind of awesome where we like you know we get we know you so well so it's like all right well what do we want to talk about and frankly like per uh for myself I just want to know what's happening with Emily in Paris.

[22:06] Ashley Park: I don't know do you know what's well that's weird but we yeah we should get to that but I do like I do want to say like that I think it's very this exact that exact thing that you just said in terms of like it's just I hope your listeners know like this is crazy like we we were like like we were 18 we were like just like kids who like got into a BFA program and like wanted to do theater and now we're like doing you guys are doing you guys are the Guys Who Like Musicals podcast and I'm like talking to you guys and like we don't we're like great like how do we even like it's so crazy.

[22:40] Ashley Park: It really is it is it's funny it's like really magical like this is like this is these are like the magic moments a little bit where you kind of just get to be like, yeah, we're all in quarantine, but like, oh my god, guys, like we're here, like we're doing the thing.

[22:53] Joe Carroll: Yeah, for sure.

[22:54] Ashley Park: I I I love that.

[22:56] Joe Carroll: Yeah, what's going on with this Paris show?

[22:58] Ashley Park: Because I I I've never been more jealous of anything in my life.

[23:02] Joe Carroll: Jesus, Joe.

[23:04] Ashley Park: No, I'm serious.

[23:05] Joe Carroll: I'm like going and shooting a television show in Paris.

[23:10] Ashley Park: I know it's yeah.

[23:13] Joe Carroll: But I'm also like, you have a beautiful wife in this apartment, not the victim.

[23:16] Ashley Park: Alex, Alex, we don't, she's she's over there, she's she's great.

[23:16] Joe Carroll: She's great.

[23:20] Ashley Park: She's over there.

[23:21] Joe Carroll: She's great now.

[23:22] Ashley Park: But I really wanna I really want to go to Paris and shoot a TV show because the it's the Instagram content and then like our friends are going to visit you, and it was just like it was horrifying.

[23:32] Ashley Park: It was really horrifying.

[23:34] Joe Carroll: Oh my gosh, Joey quiet.

[23:36] Ashley Park: No you know what's interesting is like because you know, I never like studied abroad in school.

[23:40] Ashley Park: You didn't, you know, and I like I've always loved traveling and stuff like that.

[23:44] Ashley Park: And also, like, I'm so grateful, but I really had been doing like eight shows a week for like a long period of time.

[23:50] Joe Carroll: Yeah, yeah, a long time, you know, and which is awesome.

[23:53] Ashley Park: Like, I love that, you know, and any TV experience I had, I was like Tales of the City, I was shooting, I was shooting all day, and then I would go and do Mean Girls at night for the entire thing.

[24:04] Dan Tracy: So I just wasn't sleeping for a few months.

[24:06] Ashley Park: And then which is very you.

[24:09] Joe Carroll: We should just flag the fact that like the 6 a.m. to 9 p.m. hustle or the 6 p.m. to midnight hustle is like that has been part of you since since I met you.

[24:20] Ashley Park: I mean, that's my memory at least of like how hard you worked in college.

[24:24] Joe Carroll: Everyone says that I don't even know how to do it.

[24:26] Ashley Park: Your mom used to be like oh, she's just she's sick again because you know she's taking she's a double major and she's doing this and that, and so she's got a head cold because she doesn't sleep and like all these things.

[24:35] Joe Carroll: You were always working so much harder.

[24:37] Ashley Park: And it showed like anyway, I'll get into that later, but you know, it always showed.

[24:42] Ashley Park: No, but I well, I think I'm always like, am I like a morning person or a night owl?

[24:46] Ashley Park: Because I truly like love waking up in the morning, but then I will s it you know what it is is if once I get to my third wind in the night, then I can stay up all night.

[24:53] Joe Carroll: So when it gets to that point, so I really do I do I think I do operate on less sleep.

[24:57] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[24:58] Ashley Park: Then well, which is not like always great.

[25:01] Ashley Park: But anyways, so but Paris was my first time, like really like because I also this was crazy because like I I was doing uh Grand Horizons in Williamstown, and like truly like every job that this happened for me in the past like several years, it's all happened in a matter of like a day, and then it's like change, you know.

[25:21] Joe Carroll: Your life has changed in a moment.

[25:22] Ashley Park: Yeah, like me and girls, I got cast after like a 15 minute audition, and then the next week we were doing the poster pictures, and I didn't know those were the photos for the poster.

[25:31] Ashley Park: I was like, what is this for? And then the poster came in.

[25:33] Ashley Park: I was like, And now it's like all over the subway and like in Times Square.

[25:40] Ashley Park: But um the fair thing, like I think it was like on open like I it all happened like within like a week and I had already had because after Williamstown, it was gonna be my first time like really just being like open.

[25:54] Ashley Park: So what I did was I bought a one-way ticket to meet Jonathan Saxer because her and her sister were gonna be in Italy, and I was like, Great, I'm gonna buy a one-way ticket to Italy, I'm gonna go there after Williamstown the day after, great.

[26:04] Ashley Park: And then this Emily in Paris thing happened, and I was like, Okay, so I'm still gonna go to Italy with a carry-on, and then I I guess I'll just go to Paris for like a third of a year after that.

[26:14] Joe Carroll: So I went to Paris.

[26:16] Ashley Park: She got her one-way ticket to her first job internationally.

[26:20] Joe Carroll: If if that's not an Audrey Hepburn movie, I don't know what it was.

[26:23] Ashley Park: That's your Millie story.

[26:24] Ashley Park: I don't know, but you know what was natural Emily in Paris, like the the funny thing, like the joke with everybody was that Emily, the reason I like so believe in the show and the genuine nature of it and the storyline is because it was actually Ashley in Paris because everything that was happening to Emily, I was living in like my life.

[26:41] Ashley Park: Because and I've I will never forget too.

[26:43] Ashley Park: Like I actually I like landed in Paris.

[26:47] Ashley Park: I hadn't been alone in a while, and I was going through like a lot of personal stuff too, and like come to whatever moments for myself.

[26:54] Ashley Park: And like here I am, like I was in this like five-star hotel that Paramount had put me in.

[26:58] Ashley Park: I was gonna do my read the next day, like this whole big thing had happened, and I like sat there and I just like started sobbing because I was like, what a great opportunity.

[27:07] Ashley Park: But also like I felt like you know, you know, like I I built up my community so much in New York, and like especially like Mean Girls too.

[27:16] Ashley Park: And it was so hard for me to leave that show because I loved them all so much, and they were also doing the show, you know.

[27:21] Ashley Park: And now I was in Paris, like this magical city I've always wanted to go to, like this dream job, and I was like, wow, I've like the like I I'm starting from I have to build a home for myself here and a new family for myself.

[27:21] Ashley Park: And I was like so excited to do it, and what a great opportunity.

[27:36] Ashley Park: But it was just like I think it was shocking that I was like, who I just like loved it, and I'm gonna I'm I know I'm gonna be able to do it in the next few months, but it's like it's that again, it's like freshman year again, you know.

[27:46] Ashley Park: Like the weirdest.

[27:47] Ashley Park: Um and I I called Atlanta York actually, you know, like one of my like Michigan big sisters randomly, because I was just like, I feel like you've done this before.

[27:55] Ashley Park: I think like you like pick up and you go, you know, and like where you have to just like really be there for yourself, but also like be open enough to be there for everybody else that you meet, and also like still like I don't know, so it was it was but Paris was really, really, really um an important part of my life, I think that entire experience and not only because it was like the dream job of like a TV show truly but it was like I really think I found my like I came into myself as a woman there um or just like came into myself as a person and like really um and it it took like me just being plucked out and like being distant from everybody and everything and kind of being like what like who am I like what do I value about myself what do I value about my work what do I value about like what I bring to like new friendships new relationships and like new sets and stuff like that and like I also like just found out I just like love being a host that was like one of the things I I like I I never really knew well kind of but like I didn't like which is like such a funny who came to visit yeah no but like hosting parties too like I just I was like wow I really really like really love when like people I love are all together and I'm like and there they feel safe in like my space and that like just making a cheese plate and having everybody come and like it made me so happy and I was like oh this is why I love theater.

[29:18] Ashley Park: This is why I love, like I really love like that part of it, yeah, and that community of it. And I think that it's like some of my best friends from that TV show I'd never had a scene with in season one. You know, and it's because I was I realized and people are like, oh, you bring such a like a sense of community and like family. And I was like, oh, that's the theater world. I didn't even realize that that was specific to us because even if like we're not in a scene with people, you're still like when you're rehearsing, you're there 10 to 6, everybody's in the room. And then when even if you never see someone on stage, like when you're doing eight shows a week, you guys are sharing that space in that building, right, for three to four hours every day. Like that's really special, you know.

[30:01] Joe Carroll: Yeah, and you guys were like sharing that city.

[30:03] Ashley Park: And you know, for people who don't know, the film world is so different because you just like are in this trailer kind of by yourself in these like isolated moments, and kind of probably the more fancy your job is, the more isolated you are because you're in a bigger, more fancier trailer by yourself. And so you don't have those moments to like connect and like come together to actually be a family. So it's cool that you were able to create that for everyone in a foreign country, you know. How were there a lot of Americans in the production, or was it kind of a mixed bag?

[30:34] Ashley Park: It's just it was all French people, you know, and like the crew was all French too, which was, I mean, I remember our first camera test. They're like, we're doing, I was in front of the camera and then they're like, okay, say coupe. And I was like, Coupé! Like PK, because I was like, I was like, I was like, what is it? And then I thought I was like ballet brain. Oh my god, coupe means to cut, but I only know it's this thing that I do with my legs. And I was like, are you guys gonna be saying cut in French? Are you guys gonna be saying all the directions in French? Because like, what? Because no one warned me.

[31:07] Joe Carroll: Okay.

[31:09] Ashley Park: That's hilarious. I want the TV show.

[31:11] Joe Carroll: I want the TV show of the behind the scenes of Ashley shooting a TV show in front of you.

[31:16] Ashley Park: Well, you need to follow her more on Instagram, Joe. Like my ancestors, like that's guys, that's what it was. That's what it was.

[31:22] Joe Carroll: There was that content, yeah.

[31:25] Ashley Park: You know what's so funny is that people, like a lot of people are like, oh my god, like I'm living through your like insta, like all this stuff, but like I've never because I'm not really on like I'm not on Facebook, I'm not on Twitter. Like, I realize that, like, because my mom was such a scrapbooker growing up, and you guys know me. Like, I've been in like shows in like life with you guys. Like, I truly, it's not like I think I love pictures and videos so much because like when you go back and look at them or watch them, you're like, oh my god, like the feeling of that, like I truly try to capture like when something's joyful around me, yeah, and then like it all like and so it's like my own personal scrapbook.

[31:57] Joe Carroll: I love it.

[31:58] Ashley Park: You know, and so like when people find enjoyment in that or when they're a part of that, like it makes me so happy too. But it's just like I don't know, me just trying to capture like that joy around me.

[32:07] Joe Carroll: That is so cool though. And we talk about it a lot on the show, and Dan and I talk about it a lot in life, just about the good and bad of social media and like that is the good, like the scrapbooking nature that is so eloquently put, and like that's really fantastic. I love the personal journal, you know.

[32:26] Ashley Park: Yeah, yeah.

[32:27] Ashley Park: Yeah, because I'm like I should not, I love writing, but like I guys, I have I think like over 40 journals with the first three pages all written out. I just get to like I would just rather be in the moment and it's much easier to be like, great, okay, great, you know.

[32:41] Joe Carroll: Totally, totally.

[32:42] Ashley Park: Um, but Emily, like, did I, I don't think I've told either Joe, did I tell you like the like the audition story like that? Like the crazy thing that like that's, that's I'd love to hear this.

[32:52] Ashley Park: I'll send you guys a photo that goes along with it, but like long story short. Um, so I was up at, I was about to go do Williamstown and I was doing this like Solomon concert at um Lincoln Center too. And so I actually said I was like, can I self tape for this audition instead of going in in person? Cause I do not have time to like go in on like a lunch break. And I just like at this point, like I don't know about you guys, but like I don't, if I know because of my circumstances I'm gonna do a bad job in an audition, I'd rather not go in at this point. Like I'd rather not do a bad job in front of people I care about. And if I can do a good job and I even did that for Mean Girls. I was like I'd rather send in a tape rather than go in because I know that I'm coming in on a red eye.

You know, like I remember that story actually, that was that was another one of those moments where you said kind of said no, this is my career, I'm gonna do what I need to do because the tape is gonna be better than my, you know, and then if so, but that so my agent was like no, you like just go in, just go do it. And so I remember on like a lunch break it was the, okay, so I went, I was going down on the subway to this like audition and I like first for me, like I never read my sides on subways because I just think it's like I, I don't know, I don't like people can like see you think like, you know, and I've got conversations with myself like in the voice memos like playing scenes with myself in the mirror, you know, oh well that's why, but like holding an impression like I just don't like people in my business.

But like I truly had zero time so I was like great, I'm gonna just read this side like whatever. And someone tapped me from behind and this is like an F train, like a train that I never ride. I was also 15 minutes late so I was like oh my god. And so this lady tapped me and she was like the sweet girl and she had all these Doc Martens in her arm. She goes I'm so sorry I just like saw that your sides and um these are actually um shoes for Lee Collins to try on like I'm, I'm going to her fitting like right now and I was like oh my god that's so crazy like she was for Patricia Field and so like I wasn't even because I was so I wasn't even so we instead of memorizing my lines I just like chatted with her for like 15 minutes and then I was like shoot this is my son.

I was like oh my god well and she was like on it like she was like this is our like this role. Mindy is like our favorite role on the show. They haven't found like I hope you get it. I was like, Me too. Hey, I hope I got it too. I don't know how it's so let's do it. So, like, I truly, first of all, like, and it gets crazier after this. I was like, what a crazy, like, okay, great. Now I feel great about this audition because what are like a universe sign, right? So I went in and did it, and then I went back up to Williamstown, all of this stuff. And so when eventually, like fast forward through like whatever callbacks or whatever, and I'm in Paris, and I meet with Patricia Field and her team, and like I couldn't remember because it was such a f, you know, like when you pass by people and you like meet strangers, like none of them like seemed to be like, oh my god, I met you in the train.

So I was like, oh, it must have been like an intern or somebody who was just helping in New York with fittings. So I didn't think anything of it. And um, we go to the camera test where they said coupé, and um Patricia Field's like right hand girl Erica came up to me and she was like, Ashley, I was like, What? Because I had told Lily the story about meeting this girl who was holding her Doc Martens in the train, and um it was Patricia, like this girl Erica was like that was me in the train. I didn't say anything to you because I didn't want to be a person who was like, oh my god, I saw you in a train and it not be me. Yeah, like how awful would have that. So both of us hadn't said anything to each other, and she was like, Ashley, I need to tell you the reason that I looked, like looked over your shoulder at the sides and everything is she was like, I took, I was taking a photo of you and your outfit to send to Patricia Field, which I did as inspiration for your character's fashion.

[36:31] Joe Carroll: Whoa.

[36:31] Ashley Park: And so I have, I'm gonna find it, and I know you had some hat. Wasn't there a hat?

[36:37] Joe Carroll: Yeah, okay.

[36:38] Ashley Park: I remember this.

[36:39] Joe Carroll: Oh my gosh, great!

[36:40] Ashley Park: No, I saw it on your story or something.

[36:44] Joe Carroll: No, I don't think it's a lot of people.

[36:45] Ashley Park: Maybe you did tell me, I don't know, but there was some hat.

[36:47] Joe Carroll: Well, you did you did roll up to my wedding, Ashley, in like the most fabulous of hats and scarves.

[36:54] Ashley Park: So it may have been, it may have been like a hat moment for you.

[36:58] Ashley Park: Here it is. I'm gonna show you guys. And it's so funny because you can look, you guys know me. You can see how stressed I am. And like this guy in the back just being like, why is she so like they're all looking, but like cool she had and you can see those are the sides. That's my first scene that I recorded with Lily. And the fact that she's taking a photo of me as inspiration for the kid, like that was I was like, okay. Well, that's like those are the instances where I'm like, just like how could I even like try to manifest or hope for something in my groom when it's just like that kind of stuff happens. When you just happen to be in the right train car at the right time with the, yeah, it's wild.

[37:37] Joe Carroll: Yeah. Looking just stressed enough where she'd be like, oh, that girl's stressed. Oh, cute hat.

[37:45] Dan Tracy: That is so good.

[37:46] Ashley Park: That isn't, that's an amazing story.

[37:52] Joe Carroll: Thank you for listening to our show. As always, you can check us out on Instagram at Guys Who Like Musicals or on Twitter at musical guys. And we just started a Patreon page, which is the best way for you to support our show. If you love our show, check it out. There's tons of cool opportunities for listeners on there. So check it out. Thank you so much. Love you.

[38:21] Dan Tracy: But I do want to know, this is kind of the, the uh we're gonna get into the Mean Girls section, which I feel like is gonna be.

[38:28] Joe Carroll: I also want to talk about like your last show on Frozen and you coming to my last show on Grand Horizons, but you should ask your question first.

[38:35] Dan Tracy: Okay, okay, we could talk about both of those. Um, because I was also reflecting on Grand Horizons and how much I loved it, and how it just so yeah, we'll get to, we will get to that. Because we want to get into the Mean Girls section. I mean, this is that's a huge chapter of your life. That's a huge chapter of your career. And what struck me about it when I saw it knowing you is this is gonna sound dumb, but I was like, you're funny. Like, and like it sounds dumb now because you've played so many, you've done a lot of comedy, but when did you know you were funny? When were you able to harness you were your you were funny, you know?

[39:14] Ashley Park: You know what's well, you know, also I will I will say too, like, I so specifically remember when you and Alex, did you guys come to like a preview or something? Like very early on, yeah, and you were also like the most courteous because you were like, we're not gonna burden you, like we're leaving, and I was like, no wait, I'm like, I like stopped you outside of like another, I was like fangirling you guys. I was like, come back, I need to see you guys. But um, you know what's uh interesting is like after The King and I actually I don't think I could be seen in like a comedic room, TV, film, theater-wise, um, for maybe a year, like very legitimately, you know. Like, I just you know, and like I don't think I even understood. I think humor again, like whether it's that like any kind of show, really. Like, I think humor and agony are so closely aligned.

[40:05] Joe Carroll: Oh, absolutely.

[40:06] Ashley Park: But yeah, that's something that I like. I think Best Wall maybe said that, and like you can see that so clearly in her work, you know. But like I think that again, the more that like I like experienced life, and the more that I was like, wow, let's just laugh, let's just laugh at ourselves and like what is this, you know? Like the more that I was in tune with, like, oh, that's people laugh when they're either super, super uncomfortable, when they super, super recognize something and feel like they're the scene. It's that like when they like you sometimes, like the lines that got like the most laughs are sometimes like okay, period, because the situation and like for example, you can't sit with us, not funny out of context. Those are not that is not a funny line, you know, but it is like the relationships and it's the situation and it's the timing, and so like that craft and the mechanism of it like always has like entertained me.

[41:00] Ashley Park: And I like I've like especially like in doing shows like The King and I people will come out back after be like I'm sorry, I like can't put you with because I think I live in a world of comedy, like in life. Like I like I do think, like not even that like I mean, I truly do think sometimes I'm like, wow, I am 100% in a sitcom. Like, this is the Truman Show. But like, you know, but like I have found that like my internal motor is constantly wanting to make the people around me laugh, yeah. It means that they're comfortable, or that they um yeah, or they're comfortable in their own skin, they're comfortable with me, you know. And so, like, if I can make somebody laugh, that means that I'm doing my job as like a fellow human, right?

[41:46] Joe Carroll: Yeah, like I it really does bring me so much joy. So, like for Mean Girls, I think that like, and but that's also like a testament to like Tina and Jeff and Nell and like Casey Nicholaw, like they really were like, and and I I'm glad that that came like after me having a little bit more experience and like knowing how to like shape a character to be genuine for the character, but also for genuine for the story a little bit. Um like quality over quantity, and also just being like and knowing you know what, like this is something that I need in the spine of this character, and like I don't know how like I trust you guys to write it and shape it in this way, and like this is how I'm interpreting it.

[42:23] Ashley Park: And like the I found that the more truthful the character is, um, and the more honestly that it kind of lies on my own spine, the more funny it is. Like I of course I don't think that that, you know, and so like that's nice that you said that. But I I think like the first time I ever really did comedy was like in Sunday in the Park with George, you know, because again, yeah, that was kind of a cheating way to get a comedic role because like I could again couldn't be seen for anything comedic really, and that is a sound time revival, and like was not that funny of a role, you know, but like I I think that's when I found the magic of like wow, it's not like acting is not just saying the right lines at the right time, like it's all of the in between stuff.

[43:09] Ashley Park: Like there's so much freedom that we have, and like as long as like the intention of what we're saying is clear, like it's so much more fun that way. And I and it was fun to find it in like a like a sound time show that's already brilliantly written, you know, and to kind of just like that was just like a stepping stone and kind of learning like comedy on stage. So I was like, why is this funny to people? Like, why is when I do this thing is it funny? And it's like a little bit of a math problem that doesn't have any answers, you know. And so like I mean, like I remember like something in Mean Girls, I'd be like, do they think that they're at Angels in America across the street? Like, wake up, people, you know, and like it's they're just not laughing, they're not picking up what you're putting down, but it's just because it's a different, it's a different crew.

[43:55] Ashley Park: It was the days that when they were uncomfortable, and I was like, I have to like under I have to like uh totally understand that too, you know, because like the character I played in like Gretchen was like the the reason people were laughing is when they're in on the joke too, and that like this is like a it's very uncomfortable to watch a very insecure, stressed out, like teenage girl like share those insecurities, and like especially when you're either a teenage girl watching or a parent of a teenage girl watching, you know, like that kind of thing, and like sometimes silence speaks volumes too, you know.

[44:27] Ashley Park: But so often what you don't say, you know, and it's not yeah, and and it's it's a testament to I think like how you how uh you've always had sort of the analytical mind to take into a lot of this work, and you found this like idea that all of these characters and all of these shows are puzzles that you can figure out, and not only is the story a puzzle, but actually each moment is a puzzle and each audience is a puzzle, and then the the game of that is really like the thing that's so intoxicating about working on stage.

[45:03] Ashley Park: Oh my god, it's so fun. It's just like it's it's like dealing with a new thing every day, like it's but you know, when people say, like, how can you do eight shows a week? And I'm or eight shows every day, you know, like for like I did what over 500 of like King and I and over 300 of like mean girl, and it's because it's not it's like really never the same show, right? Like always a different like formula, you know, and um we're different people every day when we wake up.

[45:26] Joe Carroll: How did how did Gretchen come about then in that world of like you can't get seen for a comedy? Like how I mean, was it just an audition? Did you kind of go after it? Did you hear it was happening and you were like, I wanna be seen for it? Or no, I don't, you know, like I think that how did it because I I remember it was happening, and like I honestly was so because I was the last person casting this show, you know, and so like I think I had kind of heard that was happening, but I still again like it's it's we kind of limit ourselves. Like I I had already put myself in a different world of like not being not being in that world of musical theater. I I do King and I, I do Sontime, I'm a serious actor doing serious things.

All of those things, but I even like serious, but just like I don't think I even like it wasn't that I was like, you are not funny actually, you could never be a plastic. Like I just like didn't even like it didn't even occur to me that like I would exist in that world, you know.

[46:22] Ashley Park: And again, like I so I was doing like hood down in Dallas, and I just remember like I was so excited for my friends who were like Erica called me, like FaceTime me when I was in Dallas, and I took a screenshot of our FaceTime when she says she finally got the role of Katie because to post on her opening night, because I was so excited for her, you know, and like this, and I was helping a couple friends who were still auditioning for a like a role or two in that show, like throughout the summer and stuff. So I just remember this going down, but just like really never even thinking that that was like I like I wants to say specifically what it was because like it's not relevant, but I had I was very much like I already know what my next show is gonna be, you know.

[47:00] Ashley Park: And so like um that and yeah, so that that just like came it was uh what was the question? I don't know how to come about. But I wanted to piggyback what you're saying is it came it came out and it came out of nowhere. Like you said, uh a lot of the things that you are most, you know, your career has been kind of almost been built on in that way, like, you know, things coming out of nowhere.

[47:22] Dan Tracy: Did Dan, what were you gonna say?

[47:24] Joe Carroll: Uh no, I was just curious. Like, like you know, you seem to so that then you come in and you like capture everyone's attention with with something. Do you know, like, how did you go about kind of preparing to create this iconic role? How did you make it your own? What are the questions you asked of of what was how did you in that character's life?

[47:44] Ashley Park: Well, I think it's also like it's funny because you were saying that like we've always been like, I think all of us, like, we we really love the academic part of our brains too. And you said analytical, but like I think it's also because like the like I I think that I like work maybe sometimes to a fault, like very, very much from like my gut. Like just like like put it all out there, you know. And so sometimes I don't think before I do things, which is like sometimes maybe not great in life, but like really great on sometimes and like audition, but you know, but it but those only work when you have done the the um the preparation, the academic work of like knowing who the human is so that you can just like have the freedom to go. So that that preparation goes with it.

[48:26] Ashley Park: But I think that um when that audition came, it it was the week before the audition, and it was also our last week of previews for this hood musical. And I do think this is what like college prepares you for is like getting up at 7 a.m. doing ballet class and like having doing 800 different things at once, all in different worlds and whatever. And so when I got that audition for Gretchen, I also thought, and to be very candid with you, I was going through a phase of my life where I felt like I was being very I was so lucky that I was being considered for a lot of like cool different roles and like being brought into like a on a short list of people for rooms, but I would go in and being like, I don't think you're even considering me.

I really understand that I was the checkbox that you brought in an ethnic person. And this role. And like I do, but I also want to say, you know, like for me, and I've been thinking about it a lot because it's been a as I've been like teaching more throughout this time and stuff like that, a lot of people have asked me, the lot of young people especially, like, like, how did you get through like the obstacles and the challenges of like be like what what what was in your way or like obstacles being Asian or something like that. And I just don't think I ever saw it as that. Cause I was just like that's just like who I am and that can also be my power too, you know, and like watch Michelle Obama's documentary if you haven't. Like she's you know but like so I was just kind of getting I was like you know what I I myself was like why would they want to see me for this like I've never like Casey Nicola I've never even gone in for Tina Jeff like I think the world of them they don't know who I am.

[48:39] Ashley Park: So like for me when I got that audition I was like okay I'm already flying into the city on Monday after we had a five show weekend our opening night was that Sunday night and I was flying in on a red eye and landing at 8 a.m the next morning on Monday to do my final callback for a different show. And that was the show that I really thought was going to be the one what I was going to be doing the next year you know and I was like no I like I really want to like focus on that and like I already know I'm gonna be tired so I want to like really do well on that and when this when Gretchen came out was like first of all I think they already have this whole thing cast like all my friends are in it already you know and like I don't really know what the deal is but like um I if I've I had had a relationship with people who were already in the room I would have felt more confident being like oh maybe they're bring me in because they have a specific reason that they think it's what Dan, you're asking, like what what was it that like would bring would win me the role, you know?

[50:52] Ashley Park: So I was like, if I I would love to self-tape for it, and if they respond to it, then that's great, you know. Cause I also had never heard any of the music, like read the script or anything. And um when I got like the audition material, the audition material was um the song was what's wrong with me. Um, and the first thing I did, which was what we learned at school, you know, like I I remember like not listening to the song first, but like reading the lyrics first, um and being like, oh, I know exactly who this is. This is exactly who I was like, mama called me beautiful, don't believe her anymore. Like, now I'm listening to you what like I'm about to cry, like look, like, you know, I read it out loud, and like as I read it out loud for the first time, I started like you know, and I was like, and then I started laughing at myself. So I was like, that is crazy that that is like in me still, you know.

[51:44] Ashley Park: Um, and then, but then I read the some of the the scenes, and the scenes were a lot more in the world of like kind of what Gretchen is in the movie, a little bit um not conniving, that's the wrong word, but a little a little bit more um intentioned in like all of the things that she was doing. I mean, I was like, oh, that doesn't feel like what the song is, but like let me try to because so I I tried to figure out who like the Gretchen would be for me a little bit, and I did that on the tape. Um, and then they kind of was they responded to it. So like then I was like, great, so at least they've seen me. We have some kind of relationship because we've like they've at least seen it, you know. So then I was like, I'll go in and do it.

And I remember like landing and I like took a nap on Jane Jordan's like bed for like an hour, and then I went in. I like do not remember any of the audition from Chelsea because I was just like so tired, and also like, but yeah, I will say, like, it was the one of the first auditions where I was like, um, I I tried to like put on this new mentality, and I like tell this to people to do, and like I still have to like tell myself to do it, especially when it comes to certain things, but like where it's like I was like, you know what, whether I get it or not, like this is my like 15, 12, maybe 12 minutes where like I'm I get to play Gretchen. Like this is this is my performance of it, like I'm Gretchen.

And it's also like a process, like I'm gonna hold my sides. I'm like, because auditions are like not what the show is gonna be. Like, we have no skin partners, we're not in costume, we're in front of like that's it's very weird. So if we can acknowledge like this is weird, great, but also like here's Gretchen. Like, I get to be her in front of Tina Faye for 12 minutes, great, you know.

[52:22] Ashley Park: And I think like I definitely, it was probably the worst time I've ever saying what's wrong with me. Just because I don't think I sounded great, you know, and like I remember too, like I had gotten a note from uh like you know, through casting, through agents, to do something, and so I brought it in different than I done on my tape. And Casey Nicola took me aside, like, and he was like, Hey, can you just do what you did on your tape, which was just sing like just doing it, just being you, and I was like, Oh, great, great. Yeah, like not trying to be funnier, like just being me great. And and then they didn't even have me do all the scenes, and the one scene that I didn't get to do was when I get to say fetch.

And so, like, I think the only thing I can remember is like on my way out. I was like, Can I just say fetch to Tina once? Fetch. Okay, bye, you know, as soon as I left, I changed clothes in the Chelsea bathroom to like a shawl and a period dress, and went and did my final clock for this other show that I thought was gonna be it, you know, and then like one thing that we learned when we were in school too was like I forget who told this to us, but they were like, you know what? Like I was like, I don't want to have flown to New York and I was flying back to Dallas that night just for two auditions, like that like I would even if I got the jobs like there's something like not fulfilling about that you know like in my soul so like I had dinner with Jenny Barber who is my scene partner in Sunday in the verb for you and who went to Michigan and who was such an older sister to me I'm so lucky to have so many great older sisters including Alex Fink you know um and she was she was pregnant like with her baby that she had had had been conceived during Sunday in the park and her husband had just been diagnosed with cancer again and I was like this is real you know like this is what like I want to see my friend and so like we went to dinner at the myth and I got a call during that dinner and like she'll never forget the face that I you know and it was like with my agents and managers which you know means that there's some kind of news and they're like we have good news we have bad news and I 100% in that moment thought it was the opposite like Gretchen's obviously not going your way through that and like this other yours and it was the opposite news like you'll be Gretchen and I was like and I meet you know but that it was just like such a moment of like oh wow like you you just have no idea like ever you know and like um I'm really glad you know and it was they was like crying of like wait I've been working so hard for this other thing for so long and then this is and then I also felt guilt of like wait but like what about all the other people who really want to like I don't even know you know but um but that like changed my life but also like the perspective of that experience like really changed my life too I think yeah and the perspective of letting go and the freedom that that can bring and and yeah, that's really amazing well oh no, I don't don't do that.

[56:09] Joe Carroll: Why?

[56:10] Ashley Park: Well, I guess we can. I can turn it on to you. I know I'm not holding a microphone, but whatever. Dan, when you go back to what you're talking about.

[56:18] Ashley Park: Like, me, I think me and Joe decided, but like maybe it's maybe it was just like a happenstance and won't be a tradition, but like we're we'll just always go to each other's last shows. Cause I will say, like, it was, but I think like the magical thing about that, and I will say, like it, I don't know, like it's it's really when we like start to realize like family in life a little bit. Um, and I think like a big marker for all of us, including like Teddy and like Dan too, was like you you and Alex's wedding. That's when we were like, wow, we're all like we're all still here. We're here and we like love and like we connect and like whatever, whatever we're like we're walking in with, like, we're you know, we're in the same place.

[56:58] Ashley Park: But like, I mean, like sitting by your mom, also like you aside, just like being in like the final show for any group of people, like even if I didn't know you, Joe, I would have still been moved by the fact that I was watching your last like show. Yeah, and like that kind of thing. And like with your mom too, like I that it was it's just like such a magical thing, you know, and it's like a different kind of pride a little bit. And then like just having you like the next week, like we are also next door to each other, you know.

[57:28] Ashley Park: There and like I was I was my first like uh uh I was talking to my mom about this randomly the other day, you know, like having you as like uh my friend there, my last show of Grand Horizons. Like, truly, I was like, Oh my god, I'm so lucky that I have like a brother here with me. Like he's my brother, and like he's here for all these speeches, and he's da da da da. Like it was just it was that was one of those crazy moments because like I came back to say hi to you, and like you know, that that's such a fun time, you know.

[57:57] Ashley Park: And then it was since it was the last performance, everybody comes in and they are giving toasts, and I was way too in the middle of all of this. I was like, I was like, No, but it's okay. Yeah, but I was like holding you, Joey. I didn't know Dan, like three times like I'm gonna go on that. I was like, no, Joe, come here, it has some champagne here. So I'm like holding champagne, like standing next to the writer and the producer, like people that I was like, I I know you guys don't know who I am because I'm not really supposed to be here, but I'm just I'm with her, you know.

[58:33] Ashley Park: I was just thinking about like the way that musical theater can change your life. You said that Mean Girls changed my life. And I'm like, did you ever think that musical theater would change your life that much? You know, well, you know, I mean, this is like real full circle, but like I think the reason I went into it was because of like Millie in high school, because that like changed my life, you know what I'm saying?

[58:57] Joe Carroll: Yeah, exactly.

[58:59] Ashley Park: Like I think what it allows you, I think what musical theater, like the magic of it, like is even like, you know, actors play characters, but like playing another person live in front of other people. I don't care what musical it is, you know, and like the thing that makes musicals different is that you're singing, right? And like singing is like the most vulnerable thing, and when like done right, you're like it's laying your emotion out for people to, you know, kind of like connect with like more than like it's like the most vulnerable thing, you know. And like I think that like every time you do that in like a different skin of a different person in like a different circumstance, like it's going to like completely like change you, and that is, I don't know. That's like I think that's like really, really magical. And like when you've when you get that at a young age or in any experience, like you want to keep doing it.

[59:52] Joe Carroll: I don't know.

[59:52] Ashley Park: Yeah, you kind of pointed to this earlier that it was like getting to kind of practice how to be human in a way. I had a teacher at Brown when I studied there for a summer who said that actors are the most blessed of any academic because you get to practice compassion and learn how to listen. And I was like, yes, it still gives me chills because I was like, yes, if I can do that, then I can justify this crazy business because I feel like I'm learning how to be a better human being.

[1:00:22] Joe Carroll: And yeah, well, that's why I think that this time is actually going to make us like I think the only way that we connect with people is like by empathy, you know, like that's what we're doing. Like we're empathizing with someone like to the core, core level. And like you empathize in someone when you like understand or try to understand like what they're going through, what their perspective of the world is. And right now we're all going through the same thing.

[1:00:48] Ashley Park: Right.

[1:00:48] Ashley Park: Totally.

[1:00:48] Joe Carroll: Not the same thing in like a very logistical way, but like we are all like that's it's when you when I walk down the street, I know that the forefront of every person's mind, I don't care what their background is or whatever, is the same is what we're totally, you know.

[1:01:03] Joe Carroll: And so like I do think it's gonna I hope that that is going to relieve like our industry and like every industry of like any like systemic, like archaic parts of it that like get in the way of like what we're actually trying to do, you know?

[1:01:22] Ashley Park: Um, and make that empathy and that compassion that you learned and that we learn about and that what makes us love it so much and like justify, you know, I don't think it's plain pretend I think it's like trying to play truth in front of people objectively so that they can like find it for themselves, right? Yeah, that's really like that's some good shit right there.

[1:01:44] Joe Carroll: That's it.

[1:01:44] Ashley Park: Let's put that on it doesn't even need any salt that's like seasoned just ready to snack ready to snack.

[1:01:53] Joe Carroll: We have two questions that we ask before you go that we always ask everyone.

[1:02:08] Ashley Park: I mean I just wondered if it was gonna come up at all I was gonna wait this is why honestly I thought about this is why I think I'm obsessed with this you can absolutely cut this off I think it's important and we should talk about it because I I think someone said to me like the other day like you can't buy old friends.

[1:02:29] Joe Carroll: Right.

[1:02:29] Ashley Park: Right? Like that's not something you can even if you find your best friend like today or tomorrow there's something about like old friends and like old those kind of things. And I do think that like I I don't know like we can you know like I think that a lot of especially young people in the business and people like date all the time or best friends with this person or don't like this person at first and whatever. And then like I think that what young people especially coming to the business that's so much like in order to do the business right we have to feel so deeply all the time and we blinded by thinking we're not able to like, I don't know like like grow as people, you know.

[1:03:04] Joe Carroll: And I think that like I I just sorry, I I don't think we're not to make you feel awkward, but I just it's one of the weird parts about and Joe and I have been talking about this a lot, like kind of what relationships transpire and then they kind of shift and pivot and how that all works in our business is so like incredibly complicated and something that's like important to talk about, but like at the end of the day, like we're all kind of we're all in a place where we need to like respect each other and and understand like the fact that you can see you know, we've known each other since we were 17.

[1:03:45] Ashley Park: Not many people know that, no not many people can like have those connection points, you know.

[1:03:51] Joe Carroll: Right.

[1:03:51] Ashley Park: And what is like awesome is that the reason I think that I feel like in a different like familial way with like you two is like when we're at a wedding or at or doing a pot anything like that, it's that sure a lot of people in our lives like love us in the place that we are now, you know, but it like it's the people who allow like I'm a different person than I was when I was 17. I'm different than I was 18, 19, 20, one month ago, you know.

[1:04:17] Joe Carroll: We all were, and we have all seen different parts of each other throughout those parts, you know what I'm saying?

[1:04:22] Ashley Park: Yeah, so good and so bad.

[1:04:26] Joe Carroll: Like some of my best friends, you know, and like what I think is like really beautiful, and I and I think the point that I'm trying to make, especially for anybody who like listens, is that like never put yourself in a box, never put like a a person in a certain like in just keep supporting people as they grow.

[1:04:43] Ashley Park: Yeah, you know, you don't know you just don't know who's gonna be your biggest like cheerleader down the line. Like, why would you why would you um the more that you the more that you want good for like the people that you know, the more that they will like want that for you and like that that's such a I don't I don't know like I like I know that a lot of like I have a lot I value the friendships that I have in my life in the past few years but I value even in a different way the friendships with the people who have known me through all the different like not great versions of myself too in not great circumstances and like still love me today.

[1:05:18] Joe Carroll: Totally you know totally and I think it's our job to keep doing that a little bit for sure.

[1:05:23] Ashley Park: Yeah no I love that oh yeah I could say those same exact things five times over you know because we all just no have to leave room for each other to actually grow um yeah I I wanna I want to ask you the questions that we always ask what would your advice be for young Ashley what would your advice be to your young self?

[1:05:51] Ashley Park: Well I I I think that's tricky because I'm trying to think if I would have taken taken the advice and I think like I'm very happy with like all the mistakes and all of the great things that I've done in order to get to the person I am today because I'm like happy with the person I am you know so I don't know if I would have so I'll give advice that probably I wouldn't have taken um I think it the advice for sometimes is like some I don't know like when I'm like having a bad day um or a bad hour or something like that I like literally like pick up my phone and I'm like what May 28th, like May 28th of last year, like what was I super stressed about? Like what did I care about more than anything? What was like first on my to-do list? And does that does does that still feel do I feel as deeply about that right now? You know, and most of the time it's like, no, you know.

[1:06:50] Joe Carroll: So I think that like I don't know.

[1:06:55] Ashley Park: I think just like trusting more. I don't know. My young self, and also just like as much as people say this to us, like the there's like there's only one of you really. And like I think the journey is not trying to like prove that like you're that uniqueness in you is like worthy, but like really just like giving your space your time, like this yourself, like the space and the value to like find what it is about you that makes you happiest.

[1:06:58] Joe Carroll: I don't know.

[1:07:31] Ashley Park: Yeah.

[1:07:32] Joe Carroll: So vague.

[1:07:33] Ashley Park: No, no, no, no. It's actually it it's it's it's not at all. But I I love that like the the thing I get in that is the is the trusting element, you know, like that's a huge thing, trusting your young self to be like if you're if you're gonna be goofy, be goofy. If you're gonna be the way you are, be the way you are. Trusting that it's all gonna be okay.

[1:07:52] Joe Carroll: Yeah, yeah.

[1:07:53] Ashley Park: I think like I I think I would also say like just to listen to the right people.

[1:07:57] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[1:07:58] Ashley Park: Listen to whether that be like your own heart or like your friends rather than your teachers, your teachers rather than your friends or the director rather than your cast, and like just like really um listen, like respect everyone, but know who to listen to.

[1:08:13] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[1:08:14] Ashley Park: I love that.

[1:08:15] Joe Carroll: I love that.

[1:08:16] Ashley Park: And then my my little question at the end of it that I love to ask everybody is what's your kind of unreachable star? What is what I call it, which is basically like it's based on the song. Um like what's in my group. Like it's so crazy. What like on the on the you know, the five, ten million year plan, what's on the horizon, you know, something you're pointed towards now as like something you want to do, you know, professionally, personally, you know.

[1:08:52] Ashley Park: I think that I like made I I I was talking to my sister about this like last month, I think. Um, and I made this like um decision. Uh and I don't know if I I'll probably like I I'm still thinking of like things I want to do, you know. But I was like, you know what, I'm gonna stop making um specific career goals because every time I've like done that, yeah, I've gotten in my own way of letting something better come.

[1:09:18] Joe Carroll: You know?

[1:09:19] Ashley Park: Yeah. So there uh there's a bazillion things that I'm like, yes, I would love to like be in a Marvel movie. I would love to like be in a Disney musical, like all this different stuff, you know. But yeah, I think that like my like my goals, like I would love if I could I would love if I could buy like a great huge house with like a personal message for my parents. And I think that I would love if I could be in a place in my life where I had a very, very stable location and means and like um like just the stability to like foster kids. You know, like so I was like I I wanna st I wanna I want to start making goals that in order to do those things, I've gotta make money and I've gotta feel stable and I've gotta do da da da da, which also means that things in my career have to line up. But I was like, I have to stop like trying to um yeah fixate on like the thing, yeah.

[1:10:12] Joe Carroll: So I think so.

[1:10:12] Ashley Park: I think those are kind of and also just like honestly, like what I'm doing, like I'm like, why else am I like making money if not to like be with the people I love and oh my god, hi Alex? She saw that we were still recording and ran out of the background.

[1:10:29] Joe Carroll: Oh, that's funny in trouble.

[1:10:30] Ashley Park: You're not in trouble.

[1:10:32] Joe Carroll: Oh my gosh.

[1:10:34] Ashley Park: But um, yeah, I don't know. I my I think my like goal is to like um really really like keep having fun and like bringing joy to people in my life, but also but being like considerate to like everybody too.

[1:10:47] Joe Carroll: I don't know.

[1:10:48] Ashley Park: I really love I really love the fun element. Like we can all have more fun.

[1:10:51] Joe Carroll: I need to do roles that I don't think I'm gonna be I I don't think I should be able to do.

[1:10:57] Ashley Park: Yeah, like I'd be like, oh my god, too scary.

[1:11:00] Joe Carroll: No, no, yeah.

[1:11:01] Ashley Park: It's not too scary, you just do it, yeah.

[1:11:04] Joe Carroll: Well, unless it's like actually scary.

[1:11:06] Ashley Park: Yeah, like I don't want to do zombie thing, like that's although frankly, like your jump scream is probably the best jump scream that there's ever been.

[1:11:13] Joe Carroll: So like you probably could make a career just getting scared.

[1:11:17] Ashley Park: I know, but I would just pass out.

[1:11:19] Joe Carroll: Like, I like they've actually like I literally turned out audition to being like I I would not be able to be helpful with that making.

[1:11:26] Ashley Park: Like I actually couldn't, or I wouldn't be able to eat, which is like not that's amazing.

[1:11:26] Joe Carroll: That's amazing.

[1:11:33] Ashley Park: That's amazing.

[1:11:34] Joe Carroll: Um Ashley, we love you so so much.

[1:11:37] Ashley Park: I'm so grateful you're taking the time.

[1:11:40] Joe Carroll: This was this was amazing.

[1:11:41] Ashley Park: And uh do this with you guys, so funny.

[1:11:45] Joe Carroll: And I'll see you at your next closing night, whatever that is.

[1:11:48] Ashley Park: Okay, wait, are we done?

[1:11:49] Joe Carroll: Wait, don't go.

[1:11:52] Ashley Park: Wait, are you that's not from work because I'm gonna keep talking, wait, stop thanks for listening to Guys Who Like Musicals.

[1:12:00] Dan Tracy: I'm Dan Tracy. That's at Dan underscore Tracy on Instagram and Twitter.

[1:12:05] Joe Carroll: And I'm Joe Carroll. That's Joe underscore Carroll M I C H because I'm from the state of Michigan.

[1:12:11] Dan Tracy: And I went to Michigan on Instagram and Twitter.

[1:12:15] Joe Carroll: You can reach us at musical guys on Twitter or at Guys Who Like Musicals on Instagram.

[1:12:22] Dan Tracy: And for the first time, we now have a phone number.

[1:12:26] Joe Carroll: You guys can text the guys who like musicals personally. Our number is 203-900-7990.

[1:12:37] Dan Tracy: We will eventually make a bad song that has those numbers in it.

[1:12:41] Joe Carroll: Two found seven five three oh nine.

[1:12:44] Dan Tracy: But for now, if you have any questions or if you want to be involved in the interview process, maybe we'll make an option for you guys to ask questions to our guests as we're interviewing them.

[1:12:56] Joe Carroll: We shall see.

[1:12:57] Dan Tracy: Be part of our text community and shoot us a text now.

[1:12:59] Joe Carroll: Thanks for listening.

[1:13:00] Dan Tracy: Woo!