This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:21] Dan Tracy: Welcome to Guys Who Like Musicals.

[0:24] Joe Carroll: Welcome to Guys Who Like Musicals.

[0:25] Dan Tracy: We're gonna try 2.0 Wi-Fi contingent.

[0:30] Joe Carroll: How you doing, David?

[0:32] Dan Tracy: I'm doing great. We are very excited to have Mr. Jason Gotay here today.

[0:36] Joe Carroll: Jason Gotay is here.

[0:40] Dan Tracy: That's my cutest speak, right? What's up, guys?

[0:42] Joe Carroll: He's a stud. He's a stud now.

[0:45] Dan Tracy: Oh, it's clean.

[0:46] Joe Carroll: Okay.

[0:47] Dan Tracy: Oh, I was gonna say high school heartthrob.

[0:50] Joe Carroll: He is on our podcast. Spidey man.

[0:53] Dan Tracy: If this is how things are starting, I just can't I simply can't imagine where this is gonna go.

[0:58] Joe Carroll: You know what we should do, Joe now? You should get on insert out now.

[1:02] Dan Tracy: No, he's stuck. We should insert his um between the lines right here.

[1:07] Joe Carroll: Oh my god. Yeah, yeah, it's something to hold on to is just going right here.

[1:13] Dan Tracy: Hold on to me to me.

[1:38] Joe Carroll: Oh and just because it's fiction doesn't mean it's not real guide the wheelhead right now.

[2:07] Dan Tracy: Nothing can ever undo this our something to man, I forget that you guys really do research.

[2:24] Joe Carroll: Like y'all really know.

[2:26] Dan Tracy: You really know this.

[2:28] Joe Carroll: Yeah, I mean, because we know you I guess that's true.

[2:31] Dan Tracy: And Dan and I both auditioned for that show and didn't get it.

[2:33] Joe Carroll: That's true.

[2:34] Dan Tracy: So, you know, didn't didn't end up happening. I hope I hope one day it does.

[2:38] Joe Carroll: Um guess who was after Jason.

[2:41] Dan Tracy: Dan was.

[2:42] Joe Carroll: Dan was after Jason, running from his um, I think you were in tech for Evita.

[2:49] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[2:50] Joe Carroll: And I saw you in the elevator, and you were like dripping with sweat, and you went in there and absent sweat.

[2:56] Dan Tracy: You absolutely was I think it was in the summer. You absolutely laid it down.

[3:00] Joe Carroll: They laughed the whole audition.

[3:03] Dan Tracy: And you came out, and I was just like, well, that went well.

[3:06] Joe Carroll: Yeah, except I had to go.

[3:09] Dan Tracy: Yeah, I'm glad you're gonna die.

[3:10] Joe Carroll: Yeah, but you crushed, man.

[3:12] Dan Tracy: You're very sweet. It was one of those things where like you have no time to think about it, no time to worry about it, you're running on adrenaline, you're already warm, go in, do the thing, get out.

[3:21] Joe Carroll: Um, you know, it's the blessing and the curse of you have three seconds to fit it in, and and there's no time to worry. You just gotta do it.

[3:30] Dan Tracy: So my gosh. That's so friggin' cool.

[3:33] Joe Carroll: Um, well, we have a bunch of those stories. Um, you know, I think I I know that I I went in after you for Moulin Rouge.

[3:41] Dan Tracy: Oh, yeah, yeah. I went after you for Miss Saigon.

[3:44] Joe Carroll: And if there's anybody you don't want to sing after, it's Jason Gotay.

[3:50] Dan Tracy: That's a fact.

[3:51] Joe Carroll: That's true. That's that's something we can all agree on.

[3:53] Dan Tracy: That's true.

[3:54] Joe Carroll: Well, I don't agree with the voice they hear after.

[3:59] Dan Tracy: Oh my gosh. Okay, well, we'll stop. We we'll we'll just we're gonna nerd out about you for the next 45 minutes to an hour.

[4:04] Joe Carroll: But here, let's just do your let's do some credits real quick and make you super uncomfortable.

[4:07] Dan Tracy: Most recently, Che in Evita at City Center, along with Call Me Madam. We know the handsome man from Bring It On. Uh from this uh we can talk about Between the Lines because that was obviously a very interesting uh story, along with the Gossip Girl reboot that the man is currently filming Spider-Man on Broadway, as well as NBC's Peter Pan Live. Uh the uh uh Prince of Egypt, uh Freaky Friday, original cast recording originating the role of uh Collogero in Bronx Tale at Paper Mill.

[4:42] Joe Carroll: Wait, one more time. Collogero in Bronx Tale at Paper Mill.

[4:49] Dan Tracy: Went to Manhattan, Marymount, Marymount Manhattan, BFA, all sorts of stuff we're gonna talk about, a million things. Jason, thank you very much for honestly.

[4:57] Joe Carroll: You you truly read that off a page.

[5:01] Dan Tracy: I did. I did because it's credits.

[5:05] Joe Carroll: We're gonna talk about all of it, but we want to make sure we want to embarrass the.

[5:08] Dan Tracy: I thought you knew me.

[5:10] Joe Carroll: And then we want to.

[5:10] Dan Tracy: No, no, no. So you went to the city. I was trying to highlight.

[5:13] Joe Carroll: I was trying to highlight how hard it was for you to read it off the page, was all.

[5:18] Dan Tracy: I just had to kind of give you the tease for a moment because I understand.

[5:21] Joe Carroll: You made it a little harder for yourself than it needed to be.

[5:24] Dan Tracy: But I know enough about that.

[5:26] Joe Carroll: I know. Let's talk about Jason. We are so happy that you're here.

[5:31] Dan Tracy: You're in the middle of filming this not reboot of Gossip Girl.

[5:35] Joe Carroll: It is a new Gossip Girl, new storylines, new characters. Can you tell us a little bit about that experience and how that's going for you?

[5:46] Jason Gotay: Because you guys are what, like day 12 of filming or something?

[5:49] Joe Carroll: Yeah, we're about day 12. Um, I'm still figuring out how it's going because I've only had one day of shooting so far, which is kind of crazy. Um the schedule keeps changing, and uh not only is it my first TV show, the first one that I've ever been on, but it this the pandemic has kind of leveled a playing field for everybody because no one working on it has shot a TV show during a global pandemic before. So everyone's kind of figuring out um and if you have, I want to hear those stories.

[6:18] Jason Gotay: Um so everyone's kind of figuring out you're a hundred and fifteen years old.

[6:22] Joe Carroll: Exactly. So it's it's going great. I mean, it's um a constant battle trying to figure out how to make sure that people feel safe. The the PPE and all the safety rules and regulations are kind of crazy. I feel really taken care of, but it's still so new, and I've only had one day, and things keep shifting and changing, and we're shooting the first couple episodes and then taking an eight-week break, then we're back, and we're shooting all the way through August. So we're kind of just at the beginning of that journey right now. But but it's great. It feels so weird to talk about because it's been so piecemeal the experience between a zoom table read a month ago and a costume fitting a few weeks ago, and you know, my one day of shooting. It's um, you know, we're just really getting off the ground. So so far, so good. And I'm excited to be working. I can't complain. I'm thrilled that it's finally happening.

[7:12] Dan Tracy: Uh after the city. I would love to deep dive on that a little bit more. Uh yeah. You found out because sort of going back to the Between the Lines experience. You were cast in Between the Lines. You were supposed to take that show to Second Stage, and then you had to back out because you got Gossip Girl. How did that process come about for you with Gossip Girl?

[7:34] Jason Gotay: Well, it's a funny story that I love telling because it's such a testament to, you know, us as theater actors, how hard we work, you know, and and our hard work sometimes really pays off in these extraordinary ways. So Josh Saffron, who was the showrunner on Gossip Girl and who wrote Gossip Girl, he basically is Gossip Girl. He was largely responsible for the success of the original, and and he's back doing this new version. He saw Evita at City Center last year, and so did Cassandra, the casting director, and they both saw me and they were like, hey, I think that guy is a fit for what we're doing. And that's what inspired them to bring me in. And I went in really quickly on lunch break from rehearsals for the Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat concert at Lincoln Center that I was doing.

And I ran over on my lunch break. It was a very quick scene. I did it a few times and left, thinking nothing of it, because I'm a theater guy who's never booked a TV show before. So there was there was no way that, you know, uh going from having zero TV experience to doing a series regular on the Gossip Girl reboot was gonna be a thing. But I didn't know at that point they had seen Evita, which was great. So um I went in for my audition, Joseph happened, and then maybe a week or so later they called me and they were like, Hey, you're screen testing for this, but that's all we know. We don't know if it's gonna be in New York, we don't know if it's gonna be in LA, we don't know what material you have to do, we can't tell you any more about the character.

Hold tight. And um, it ended up being a little bit of a waiting game because in TV land, before your screen test, which is essentially your final callback, they have to negotiate your contract, and you have to sign it before you even have your final callback. So once they decide they want you to test, you have to wait for your reps and the producers to work out a whole deal, right? And in this case, it was a deal for potentially the next six years of my life. So it took a while to figure that out. And once they finally did, they got me on the phone and they were like, Okay, so you're flying to LA tomorrow, and here's the new scene you're doing, and here's what time your flight is. You know, they'll pick you up, get over there.

So that was all kind of a whirlwind. And then the screen test was amazing. I walked in the room and they were like, Hey, loved your work in Evita. They asked me questions about that. So immediately I felt like, okay, there was some context for me walking in the room. And it felt really easy and super collaborative, and they kind of hinted that I was the only one testing for this role. So I left feeling a little bit like, okay, that went well, who knows what's gonna happen. Um, and then a few days later, got the call, and then immediately had to figure out how was this gonna, you know, coexist with Between the Lines to bring this back, you know, to what you were asking. Again, took a few weeks to figure out if it was gonna be possible.

Ultimately, it wasn't gonna be possible. Um, and then none of it was possible because life was canceled completely for seven months. Um, yeah, that's the weird thing. And and kind of sad because I don't know what the future of Between the Lines is gonna be, but I imagine that by the time they finally get it off the ground, I might be done shooting season one. And you know, maybe I would have been able to do it, but you know, there's no predicting how things are gonna turn out that way. So I wish them well. I love the show, I love everyone working on it, and I can't wait to see what happens.

[10:50] Dan Tracy: So wow, god, that's such a cool story. It's it's like it had to be a bit of a dream, like a bit of a fever dream. Cause now, so you were you were done. Were you done with Joseph at the time?

[11:00] Jason Gotay: Yeah.

[11:02] Dan Tracy: When you or did you have to yeah, so that Joseph was done, and then you did the whole screen test thing.

[11:06] Jason Gotay: Yeah, exactly. It was about a week.

[11:08] Dan Tracy: And you where you you'd never screen tested before.

[11:12] Jason Gotay: I I had screen tested for one other show.

[11:17] Dan Tracy: No, you're back.

[11:18] Jason Gotay: You're back. Yeah, you're good now.

[11:19] Dan Tracy: Yeah, I I had done one screen test before. It was right around the time of Call Me Madam at Encores. Encores is kind of my good luck charm with TV stuff.

[11:27] Jason Gotay: Yeah.

[11:27] Dan Tracy: Um because that that too fell completely out of the clear blue sky. But yeah, they they flew me to LA for it was an it was a comedy on ABC. It was the uh the Hannah Simone project. She's an actress from New Girl, I think.

[11:41] Jason Gotay: Oh people should know this.

[11:43] Dan Tracy: But it was her TV show, and so I did I did screen tests for that. That was one other experience I had had, but uh every experience is different, and it all felt brand new to me. It's it still does, so yeah, it's kind of yeah, that's so sick.

[11:54] Joe Carroll: Where did they do it? Where did where was the test?

[11:57] Jason Gotay: Uh it was in LA on um oh god, what are the name of the studios? I think it was like Disney's Studios.

[12:04] Dan Tracy: Um got it, but some big fancy like like lot that like we would like like this very, very LA, very Hollywood, very fancy.

[12:14] Joe Carroll: Yeah in like Universal City or whatever, you come over there, you have to like wait on the long security line, and then it's like the golf carts driving people around from like studio to studio on this big lot.

[12:24] Jason Gotay: Um that's yeah, it was nuts. It was nuts. But when you find out the day before you're gonna be flying out there, there's any again, it's like there's no time to even be like, what am I doing? The material is so new, you're getting on a plane. Um it's all just like one big adventure. So it's I just tried my best to stay present and not get ahead of myself.

[12:39] Dan Tracy: That's so cool.

[12:45] Joe Carroll: Yeah, the reason I ask if you'd ever done it before is because I I haven't tested, but I have been on some of those lots, and your hands start to sweat.

[12:53] Jason Gotay: Oh, yeah, just being there and that kind of like how do you how do you rise to that occasion? How do you stay positive and stay kind of focused on what you have to do and like not let it get the best of you?

[13:05] Jason Gotay: Well, the first time, again, because I had no TV experience to go from nothing to testing for a series regular on a comedy, which was the first show I tested for. I was like, there's just no, there's no way. It's not gonna happen, right? Like, this is so far-fetched. So I might as well go in, show them who I am, have fun with this. Like, it felt oddly low stakes because I didn't feel like I had any sort of shot. So I walked in and I like very much played the role of like you know, new kid on the block. I was like, hey, when do I sing my 16 bars? Like being an idiot and like ask, you know, um kind of playing that up. And I let myself off the hook because I kept telling myself, like, there's no way, there's no way, there's no way, and that weirdly allowed me to to be more of myself, show them my sense of humor.

Um, and then the second time around, once I got there, I was super nervous for Gossip Girl, but I ended up having to wait like a super long time. They were running behind, and the casting director came out, and we were kind of shooting the shit for a really long time, and so all of my adrenaline kind of melted away by the time I got in there, it it just felt like I've been here for an hour. Let's do this.

[14:16] Dan Tracy: I don't know. Right.

[14:17] Jason Gotay: Wow.

[14:17] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[14:19] Joe Carroll: No, yeah, totally, totally.

[14:20] Jason Gotay: I mean, I I I have the same I Dan, that was an excellent question because like I've never been in that position.

[14:26] Jason Gotay: And I just imagine that you're just flying because also you know, like you said, you know what the contract looks like.

[14:31] Jason Gotay: Yeah. You know that's not it's not a small amount of money and it's not a small amount of time. And you're like, oh my god, my whole life could change. You know, I don't know. So, like, how how you step up to the plate and not blow it.

[14:46] Dan Tracy: Yeah, yeah. See, that's dangerous. I can't really like I'm like, I'm just worried, I'm putting it into the universe in a bad way that like I'm gonna blow that the first time that I get that opportunity. But like, you know, how you do that, it's just fat it's really interesting.

[15:02] Jason Gotay: Yeah, I think for like theater jobs that I get really close to, they feel so much more stressful for some reason because I, you know, it's like I've done this before, I'm ready for it. This is what I do. Like, come on, like give me this chance. But something like TV was so so new to me. So when it, I don't know, when you're such a rookie that way and you have no idea what to expect, there's nothing else to compare it to. It's easier to be like, all right, I don't know what this is gonna be, but um you have no choice but to kind of like navigate it moment to moment because you've never done it before.

[15:34] Dan Tracy: So that kind of helped, I think. So it was completely new to you, and you find yourself in this situation where you're like, you know, Gossip Girl is a job that you know, I'll call it right here. You heard it here first. The hot take is this job will probably change your life in a major way. If nothing more than just getting you a lot of people are gonna recognize your face, we'll just call it as it is, because that'll definitely happen.

[15:56] Joe Carroll: But do you feel um did you did you feel any necessity to kind of change anything about what you do as a performer or how you worked on the material to like work on TV? Is that do you find any any difference?

[16:11] Jason Gotay: It's all still very new to you, so it's probably an early question to ask. But do you find any difference between how you prepare material for the stage as opposed to how you prepared this, or were you thinking about Joe and I are like avid students of acting in pictures and all of these like film coaches and all that stuff. Are you doing any of that stuff too, or are you just kind of being true to yourself and trusting the process?

[16:32] Jason Gotay: Oh man, wow, that's such a good question. I mean, I've taken a few TV film classes that were really challenging for me because you know, you always get to watch yourself back, and we're so so critical of ourselves. And the course that I took was really about different genres on TV and film, how you navigate that, how you make choices. So I've I'm thinking about that a little bit, but if I'm being completely transparent, even my first day on set, which I ended up feeling more comfortable than I thought I would, a lot of what I'm doing. This is not like the you know the politically correct answer, but anytime I'm doing anything TV film, I have this voice in my head telling me, do less, do less, stop trying, just relax.

[17:12] Jason Gotay: Um and that is uh I've found to be a real barrier between me and the work. I haven't, to be completely honest, found my way in yet, because I have always been super conscious of coming from musical theater land and having to um, you know strip down what I do so that it doesn't come across as being too much or overcompensating. And so that is kind of sadly, that's the overwhelming thought right now is coming into this world, you know, really strip away. Um, you're feeling like you have to prove yourself or make big choices, just let the words carry you, stay present, listen to the other person, all of that like very basic um building block acting stuff that you learn.

[18:02] Jason Gotay: It it's yeah, it's going back to the beginning with that stuff for me has been really helpful. And I'm hoping to like continue to find my way in because right now it I'm I'm nervous that I'm gonna come across as you know, being inexperienced or bringing too much energy. It's hard, it's a hard line to to find.

[18:23] Dan Tracy: Yeah. That's that's that's super interesting.

[18:26] Joe Carroll: Yeah, because we talk a lot about like on TV and in film, like you can be big. Right. You can be big. It's just a different, it's it's behavior that is, you know, Dan, what does Bob Krakauer always say? It's like, you know, your behavior has to be organic and it has to be true.

[18:46] Dan Tracy: It can be large.

[18:48] Joe Carroll: Right, right. It doesn't, it's like this, it's this misconception that like you know, you have to be small on TV. It's just that your behavior has to be true to the character. We have to believe it to be true. We have to believe it to be spontaneous, and we have to believe it to be um genuine, surprising, you know?

[19:04] Jason Gotay: Yeah, yeah. So like it doesn't necessarily have to be less, it just has to be real. So a lot of times when I'm pushing, I'm trying to create something that isn't necessarily real. So the idea that you have to like not push and do less is like accepting kind of that you're enough and whatever you're doing in the present is right, you know, and then just like doing which is kind of how you approach those two auditions, which is probably why they worked out so well, you know, like just kind of being present is is the thing, but you know, it it's something that Joe and I are trying to crack, so it's a question that we're constantly asking.

[19:38] Joe Carroll: Honestly, I'm like writing all this down. Um, and you're right at the beginning of it too, which is so interesting. Like, how much of the character do you know?

[19:47] Jason Gotay: I mean, because one of the things that we that I read was like, you know, they're they're very hush hush about what the what the series is gonna be, but very close, you know, guarded about like what the storylines are gonna be, who the characters are, what all of that stuff. So, how much do you know?

[20:01] Joe Carroll: And it does that make sense, like right now.

[20:03] Jason Gotay: I I always wonder that like TV wise, like if you're gonna be doing this for six years, they obviously don't know what you're gonna be doing five years from now, or maybe they do, but they know what you're doing in season one, they they know what you're doing in season two.

[20:13] Jason Gotay: Not a ton, Joe, not a ton. Um I know a little bit, really largely based on the two scenes that I did for the screen test, and Josh was in the room and obviously, you know, was in the writer's room for the whole first season. So he was able to fill me in a little bit on where things were going, and there were two scenes I had to do, and one scene was at the beginning of a relationship with another character, and the second scene was you know, a few episodes down the line. You got to see how that relationship evolves.

[20:39] Jason Gotay: So I kind of have a feeling I know where things are going. Um, but even the first day on set, it was me and a few other characters, and we had that was the one of the most surprising things about that first day was there was no real conversation beforehand about what the relationships were like, what is the dynamic of this group?

[20:54] Jason Gotay: I was in a scene with five other actors. Um, and I was able to draw my own conclusions about it based on the script, but there were no conversations about it. And in theater, hopefully, you get the opportunity to sit and crack all of that stuff open. So I was the kid in the holding area, like, hey guys, like, what do you think? Like, how long have we known each other? Is this a thing that happens? Are we close? Are we comfortable touching each other? Like trying to ask all of those like actory questions because there's no real time for that.

[21:18] Jason Gotay: But then throughout the day, you're doing like 30, 40 different takes, and every few takes a director comes over and is like, I think you guys are really close. I don't know if you're normally out with these people, so take a lot of your stuff to this character. Um, so the process kind of unfolds in a very different way.

[21:33] Dan Tracy: And so I forget what your question was.

[21:36] Jason Gotay: How much do I know? Not not a ton.

[21:38] Joe Carroll: Yeah, you're learning about it as it's happening, right? Like after take 10, when your director is like, hey, I think you and this character are really close friends, right?

[21:46] Jason Gotay: So maybe you can take a lot of your stuff to her. It's like, oh, cool. That's something that I didn't know beforehand. So a lot of the homework that you're used to doing, you can't really do until you're very much there in the moment, able to ask the questions in real time.

[22:00] Jason Gotay: It's different, it's really different. And that I have to highlight is what makes it TV, right? Like not doing that homework and doing that because in life, we don't necessarily know what is happening between us and our groups of friends. It's helpful that they say, Oh, in this circumstance, like that's your best friend, that person's not cool. Okay, I know I'm gonna talk to this person, but like figuring out what those relationships are in the moment is what makes it real, right?

[22:26] Joe Carroll: And what makes it spontaneous and new and fun, and because in theater, we have to we have to know everything that there is to know and then make it appear real.

[22:34] Jason Gotay: But in TV, it really has to be real because you can't lie because the camera's right there, and that's really interesting. Because as you're explaining that, I was like, Well, that just kind of seems like life, like that's real, that's exactly how it would be.

[22:45] Joe Carroll: No, so smart, so smart.

[22:47] Jason Gotay: And we like the three of us, like our theater, like, you know, our friends, we love that. That's where we thrive. It's being in the process, being like, Oh, hey, here's something that I think might make it more interesting, right? Or something that might complicate it for you. Like, we're so process driven.

[23:01] Joe Carroll: And TV is very process driven too, right?

[23:03] Jason Gotay: And you get the opportunity in the next take to like play with something a little bit differently. It feels so much like rehearsal. And it helps it to feel more alive, more spontaneous.

[23:11] Joe Carroll: And so in that way, that's that's what's fun about it and what's exciting for me.

[23:16] Jason Gotay: And that's why I'm excited to do it more, because you're just playing and you're doing it a million different ways. You got to do the same scene 30, 40 times in a day, right?

[23:25] Jason Gotay: And they'll kind of piece it together in the way that's gonna tell the story most effectively, in their view, right? But that that playfulness, right? And learning in in each moment is part of what makes it exciting.

[23:36] Jason Gotay: So yeah, it's been cool. It's been cool.

[23:40] Joe Carroll: XOXO.

[23:41] Jason Gotay: Exactly. Holy holy cow. This is just it's gonna be so I can't wait to watch it.

[23:46] Dan Tracy: I know it's gonna be it's gonna be a while, but just to check in with you over the course of this process, and you know, it's just we love we love when the good people get the good jobs.

[23:55] Jason Gotay: And I remember I think I texted you that exact thing when the deadline article came out. I was like, oh my god, the good, you know, the good people won today. That you know, that Jason is gonna be on this show.

[24:06] Dan Tracy: So congratulations, we can't wait to watch it.

[24:08] Jason Gotay: I appreciate it. And then we'll let's let's do some theater, let's talk about some theater shit because that's what we you know, we obviously love that.

[24:17] Joe Carroll: Um and one of the things that I I wanted to just kind of jump into bay off of what you were talking about was sort of the development stuff. We I think we met really the first time doing that the first reading of Bandstand, right?

[24:28] Jason Gotay: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Had we met before that?

[24:30] Joe Carroll: I don't think I remember that because I remember that process, you know, it was the very first reading down at the public that I had done.

[24:37] Jason Gotay: I think they'd done one more.

[24:38] Joe Carroll: They had and and we were in that together.

[24:41] Jason Gotay: And we went out for lunch, yeah, that one day, and and like talked about what a weird guy Jeremy Jordan is.

[24:49] Joe Carroll: And uh, and and we're like we're like talking about this show, and you know, that so it talk about talk about poking holes and trying to create something.

[24:58] Jason Gotay: Um that was a very cool process. And I remember do you what do you remember from that first reading?

[25:03] Joe Carroll: I mean, that was so long ago, and I know that you know you didn't play the saxophone, so that was kind of the end.

[25:08] Jason Gotay: Indeed, not indeed not. Well, I I remember that week being the week that I fell in love with Joe Carroll. Um, first and foremost. Um, not kidding. But uh, you know, I I remember first of all, I had done Bring It On the Musical with Andy Blankenbuehler.

[25:23] Jason Gotay: And Bandstand happened, I think it was a couple years after that. But after that experience and and seeing his brilliance and really wanting to work with him again, when he called me to do the Bandstand reading, I was like, oh, amazing. Like, here's another opportunity to work with this this friend, this man that I really admire and and respect.

[25:39] Jason Gotay: And I really fell in love with the piece that week. Um I loved the team, I loved the story so much. I love those characters, I loved all of the things they were trying to say within it. I really loved watching the other actors in the room.

[25:54] Jason Gotay: Um Jeremy Jordan is a little weird, but I I was kind of obsessed with watching his process. He's like a comic book kid who became a Broadway heartthrob. Totally, you know, he's like totally like a quiet introvert, but then now he's like thrust into the spotlight and he has like the best voice ever, but all he really wants to do is just that.

[26:10] Joe Carroll: Like, don't bother me otherwise, you know.

[26:12] Jason Gotay: Totally. I mean, he's just yeah, but but it was this thing, it was it was and I I I feel bad if I misspoke about the word weird, but it was like he had this like that he was like a creature of musical theater, and we sat down at like some some sandwich shop at the at the public, and we're like, What is the he was but he has this star quality that was like and I remember us sitting behind music stands and he somebody made a note and he was just like as the lead of this this reading was like no that that would not happen that way, it would happen this way.

[26:41] Jason Gotay: I think I would do it this way. Right. And the whole room is like, oh okay, yeah, I guess can we do it that way? Yes, okay. It was it was like, oh, this is this is a person who who, you know, I don't know. And it wasn't it wasn't even like jerky really. Maybe it kind of was, I don't know. I just remember like there was like, oh, this is the there's a star in the room and the star is gonna be listened to.

[27:01] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[27:02] Jason Gotay: That I think was the most interesting part of the week for me because obviously Jeremy was someone that I really look up to and someone whose career I wanted to emulate. And I was still so young at that point that I was still kind of learning for myself, what is it, what does it mean to lead a show? What does it mean to be the leading man? How do you really lead a company but remain gracious?

[27:19] Jason Gotay: And how do you um, you know, stand strong in in your beliefs, um, but also stay collaborative, right? I was asking myself all of those questions, so I was grateful for the opportunity to watch him um kind of workshop this new piece.

[27:34] Joe Carroll: Um, yes, to everything you said. I think that he was was, is at a point where he doesn't feel like he that he needs to be apologetic anymore when it comes to something that he thinks and feels.

[27:44] Jason Gotay: And he's that's that's what you hire some of these stars for, right? Is to come in and have a really strong voice and to be completely unapologetic about it. And as long as you're not being disrespectful, but I think it it was a little jarring for me, and you, if I remember correctly, like I think you were a little bit taken aback by that that sort of um I use this word uh, you know, uh hesitatingly, but that kind of aggression that right that he that he had in the room was a little bit um was uh unexpected, and I learned I learned a lot from that.

[28:17] Joe Carroll: Yeah, yeah.

[28:19] Jason Gotay: No, totally, totally, totally. Um, and you you mentioned it briefly, and I you know, we want to talk about Bring It On, obviously. I mean, that was that had to have been that was that was kind of break number one.

[28:30] Joe Carroll: Oh yeah, right. I mean, you were were you were you still in college at the time when you passed it?

[28:34] Jason Gotay: How did that how did that process come here?

[28:36] Jason Gotay: Uh I graduated in May and I auditioned for Bring It On in August. And at that point they had already had one out of town tryout at the Atlantic Alliance Theater in Atlanta. And so they were gearing up for their national tour. By the time I auditioned, they had cast everybody else in the show already except for my role. They had an open call at Telsey for the guy, and I went in and Rachel Hoffman, who's amazing, was like very much kind of mentoring me through that process because I think she saw like I think this could be you, but you're a little bit of a diamond in the rough.

[29:04] Jason Gotay: Right, right. Because I was such a baby at that point, and it moved so quickly. Um it was audition, callback, work session, final callback. Um, so that was definitely the break. Yeah, I had just left school. Wow. Yeah. That's crazy. And then it toured, it you went on the tour with it. It went all around the country and then stopped on Broadway for how long it ended up being a five or six months. We opened August and we closed on December 31st. It was a little less than half a year. Got it. Got it. Yeah, because I remember I remember seeing that. I remember being like, you know, it's like one of those, I think we were like 22, 23. I was when that came to route. Dan, did you see it on Broadway?

[29:46] Dan Tracy: No, I mean, you know, I no. I think I was still in school. I was still in the school. The answer is no. No, I did not see that. I was still in school. Taylor, Taylor Lauderman was on our class, so obviously we were tracking it. Um your song was one of the songs I had to sing in my showcase audition.

[30:03] Jason Gotay: Oh, amazing like thing to for to figure out what I was supposed to sing for showcase. I was gonna sing that for a long time. So like I knew the show, but I never got to see the show, and I'm bummed I didn't get to see the show because you know, that was everybody knew who Jason Gotay was after that experience. Everybody in my camp knew who Jason Gotay was after that experience. And we watched it very closely because of Taylor. Um what did you what did you learn being 23 years old starring in a Broadway show?

[30:28] Jason Gotay: Everything, truly, that was like the crash course. There was the crash course in how to do this damn thing. I mean, Bring It On, I would never say a bad word about it because it gave me everything, like every bucket list thing that I ever dreamed of, the cast recording, you know, Billboard and Times Square originating a role, nominated for best musical of the Tonys, went to the Tonys, like it was one dream come true after another, but it was really, really hard. Um for a million different reasons. But I was so young and all of us were unknowns, and so I walked into that process so scared of everything, feeling like I had to prove myself that like you made the right choice going with me. And as a result, I had a huge kind of wall up socially, very much kept to myself.

Tried to like, you know, keep my feet on the floor and stay focused. And socially, that cast, um, to be completely honest, we weren't, I didn't feel like we were really a family. It was a little bit of it, it was difficult for me to kind of acclimate. About two-thirds of the cast had been with the show for its entire development, and then I kind of stepped in to replace somebody else, and it was kind of hard finding my way with the people.

[31:35] Jason Gotay: Yeah, and by the end, I mean, we'd been together for a year and a half developing this thing, and so I have so much love for every single one of those people. But it was really hard leaving home for the first time, being on the road for nine months, um and being in development for that long too, which was such a gift, but also, you know, had its own challenges. So I learned so much. I'm so grateful to that experience because it really jumpstarted everything for me.

[32:01] Joe Carroll: Yeah. Yeah, we talked to you Matt Doyle about this a little bit because he's a good friend of mine. And he was saying that when he did Spring Awakening when he was really young, it was like everybody was so young. Like how, you know, you guys were all that cast was all barely 20 years old, you know. Like, like, you know, you don't know who you are or what you're doing, and then somebody says, Hey, here's a bunch of money, and yeah, you know, go lead a Broadway show. Like, I can imagine that being just a bit of a, you know, almost like um like Drew Barrymore.

[32:33] Jason Gotay: Right, totally. Like, you know, like just being young and successful in that way, like and having a ton of pressure and a ton of responsibility must have been really hard.

[32:43] Jason Gotay: Yeah, it was for me, but I mean, I feel like in some ways I got off easy because my role was very straightforward and I didn't really have to do anything physical, and everyone else in the show was working so hard. And Taylor was completely incredible, and watching her and Adrian Warren together really lead to that show, and as young people kind of figure out everything you were just talking about. Who am I? What do I have to say? How do I sustain this? Um they really for me deserve so, so, so much credit. I mean, my role was the male lead, but it was like very much a featured supporting, you know, role with a couple great moments, but I didn't have to carry the show on my back like they did, and you know, Taylor being plucked out of school. Um crazy, crazy, and having to sing, dance, act, cheerlead. I mean, there was stunting. It was wild.

[33:30] Jason Gotay: It was wild. And I can't believe they did it, but they were so wonderful. And yeah, it was amazing to watch them.

[33:37] Joe Carroll: Yeah, that cast, all of you have gone on to like just absurd careers. Like, look at the opening night Broadway cast of Bring It On and everybody's doing well.

[33:51] Jason Gotay: Yeah, it's everybody's doing it. I mean great company. Great, great, great company. That's amazing.

[33:57] Joe Carroll: Yeah, um yeah, so we got a couple we got a just a bunch more stuff that we want to ask you. I mean, what one of the things that we always ask people, um, what is the greatest challenge of your career been so far? Because sometimes we talk about the like, you know, the happy stuff and you know, all the good stuff, but like what's something, you know, something challenging, something um I think the one of the biggest challenges that I've had to kind of navigate was the Bronx Tale experience. Um that role at Paper Mill, working really hard, um, being in development with that, and then not moving forward and not being able to go to Broadway with the show. That was really hard, and um I'm really grateful for that experience because I learned so much, but that was a challenge for me to kind of deal with, you know, any shame that I felt surrounding that.

[34:46] Jason Gotay: Um and it's something I love talking about now because I really want to dispel, you know, any notion that any actor should feel shame or guilt or you know, not good enough for not, you know, seeing a project all the way through.

[35:04] Joe Carroll: Yeah, well, it just happened to be in the spring.

[35:07] Jason Gotay: Um I just had the same experience, so I'm always like trying to give a voice to that because nobody talks about that.

[35:16] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[35:16] Jason Gotay: And whenever it happens to somebody, we all are kind of like, ooh, you know, I wonder what's gonna happen. And yeah, interestingly, we were talking about Taylor Lauderman too. And before she did Mean Girls, the same thing happened to her. She was replaced in an MTC show. She was playing the lead, she was replaced like I think like the night before preview started.

[35:36] Joe Carroll: Right.

[35:37] Jason Gotay: And Rachel Rockwell, who I've um, the late Rachel Rockwell, who's a genius who I love, talked about how sorry she was for having to do that to her and all of that. And you've had the same experience. So I really wanted to was hoping you would bring that up today because I want you to kind of highlight you were playing the lead role in this show, and the show goes to Broadway, and you're not going with it. But how did you find out that you weren't moving forward?

[36:00] Jason Gotay: Well, maybe six to eight months after we finished our run at Paper Mill, I got a phone call from my agent saying, Hey, Bronx Tale is moving, it's going to Broadway. Um, and they're putting out an audition breakdown, and your role is going to be on it. They are gonna see a few people, they're putting you on hold. It's unclear, you know, whether or not you'll be joining them, but they wanted to reach out and um and let you know that they're gonna be seeing other people for it and they'll keep you posted.

[36:27] Jason Gotay: And I got no explanation, no word from them, on um, no feedback really. And so yeah, so that was a little weird. And I waited, and you know, in our peers in the business, we always hear when, like, oh, are you going in for this? Are you being seen for this? I hadn't really heard about anyone else going in for it. And you know, everyone was kind of talking about it and asking me. That was one of the most difficult parts was everyone was like, Oh my gosh, Bronx Tale's going, like, congratulations. And I was like, Well, I don't really know yet. So it was like kind of weird to deal with that.

[36:58] Jason Gotay: Um, that was a little funky. And then, you know, I heard that they weren't, it wasn't going my way, and I heard that Bobby Conte Thornton was doing it, which I was totally thrilled about because I am a huge fan of him. And I do want to talk more about that because before the whole Bronx Tale experience, I'd seen him in a bunch of stuff, and I was like, damn it, he's so damn good. And um, and it came down to Bobby and I for Paper Mill. And in that whole audition process, you know, he was so wonderful, and you know, it was always great seeing him, and we were very supportive of one another. And so when I heard he was doing it, I was happy for him. And Ariana DeBose was also joining the company, and I knew her from Bring It On as well. So I was thrilled for her. Um so that was how I found out.

[37:41] Jason Gotay: And um, I reached out to Bobby right away, and I was like, hey, congratulations. And I wasn't completely through a through a like a Playbill article or something. And then didn't we? I think my agent called me.

[37:52] Jason Gotay: Yeah, I think Joe, I think you and I still maybe have the same agent.

[37:55] Joe Carroll: Oh yeah, yeah.

[37:56] Jason Gotay: Okay, so then oh yeah. Um, yeah. So Ben called me and kind of told me, and I again was given no explanation, no feedback, until a couple years later, it came up randomly, and my agent kind of said to me one day, You remember what happened with that? And I was like, Well, no, I didn't ever really get anything from them. And he was like, Wait, what? And so I found out way after all of this um transpired what the kind of feedback was.

[38:23] Jason Gotay: And I remember the way my agent uh kind of posed it was, you know, they loved you, they loved the work you did, they thought you were so sweet and so charming and so likable, and that is kind of what ended up working against you a little bit because they wanted someone a little tougher, a little edgier, um, and someone a little bit more, I think, just masculine, and maybe they wanted a straight actor in the role.

[38:48] Joe Carroll: Um yeah, to me, that sounds a little a little straight guy, you know.

[38:48] Jason Gotay: That sounds a little shady, you know.

[38:55] Joe Carroll: Yeah.

[38:56] Jason Gotay: I don't want to read too much into it, but to be completely honest, the role the story is steeped in this culture that is um very much about this hyper masculinity, right? It's about a boy and his two father figures, and they're kind of vying for his love, and it's a lot about that mob mafia culture as well. And so that's something that I understood because I was born and raised in Brooklyn, but for whatever reason, like the energy that I was giving them was, you know, not the direction they wanted to take it. And I completely respect that.

[39:24] Jason Gotay: Um, because for me as an actor, you know, vulnerability and sensitivity is kind of where I like to live, and that's very often the way I find um a way in to any character I'm playing, and I think they wanted something a little bit different, which I totally respect. Um, so it took me a little bit of time to come to terms with that, especially because uh Bronx Tale, the the process itself, the rehearsal process and the run was really hard. They were really, really hard on me. Jerry Zaks who is incredible and a legend, and I'm so happy I worked with him, and I learned so much from him. He was really tough.

[40:02] Joe Carroll: Were they pushing you in that direction? Were they like trying to push you tougher, tougher, tougher the whole time?

[40:07] Jason Gotay: Not really. I never felt like that was an issue. And um I was it was a really difficult process, you guys, because you know, without saying too much, I mean, it was this big commercial property, and there were a lot of cooks in that kitchen. Tommy Mottola and Dodger Theatrical, right? And Tommy had worked on the movie, and the show was co-directed by Robert De Niro and Jerry Zaks. But De Niro wasn't really very much involved, but had specific opinions that I was hearing about, but I never got to talk to him about it.

[40:36] Jason Gotay: Um, I would have people pulling me aside saying, watch the movie. Jerry Zaks was like, Don't watch the movie. I would be in touch with Chaz Palminteri, who was texting me, telling me certain things. Like it was I was kind of in the middle of this crazy storm. And um I've been through a lot of preview periods, but that preview period was very much like adding in a monologue that had to be specifically timed musically. It was cutting reprises, adding reprises, it was um throwing so many things at me, and I felt so proud of how I was handling it. You know, I was working really hard and I felt like I'm really delivering for them, and I feel like this is gonna pay off.

[41:09] Jason Gotay: Um, and then when it didn't, I was a little heartbroken. And it took some time to come to terms with that. But it almost feels like a rite of passage at a certain point, right? Like Jeremy Jordan was someone who I thought about him, and he did the out of town of Finding Neverland. I heard he was absolutely brilliant, and you know, they brought in a star to do it on Broadway. And for me in my head, I'm like, well, you don't really get better than him. And it happens to because I was, you know, looked up to him so much at the time and still do, and um, so that was it was easy for me to comfort myself knowing that it happens to so many people, and Dan, you're right, it's not something that's talked about, and there is weird energy surrounding it, but it yeah, it just happens all the time.

[41:50] Joe Carroll: So that was a big challenge.

[41:52] Jason Gotay: Because to me, just to highlight something about it, is like if they weren't giving you specific direction, right to change, then what that indicates to me is that they're looking for a pure essence coming out of a human being, and like their particular choice here of what kind of essence they were looking for may have a tinge of something that may be inappropriate, but they're still looking for what they're allowed to call a quality, and that's something that we can't really control.

[42:21] Joe Carroll: You can't control how genuine you are, you can't control how charming you are.

[42:24] Jason Gotay: That's part of what makes you you. That's part of what is gonna make you succeed in the long run. You have to just kind of own that that's okay. And I'm saying this to you because I'm actually saying it to myself.

[42:34] Joe Carroll: Totally.

[42:36] Jason Gotay: We all need a reminder, I guess, yeah. You know, it has been a long pandemic, and I'm trying to get myself to understand that like we're all enough, and there's nothing that you can do in a lot of instances to change what these people want from you.

[42:52] Joe Carroll: You can only be more yourself.

[42:54] Jason Gotay: Yeah.

[42:54] Joe Carroll: And the people who are, I've just was watching Killing Eve. I was just binging, watching Jodie Comer in that show. I read about her audition. Three lines in, they knew it was her because of something about her, not because of some voice she did or some, you know, way she said a line or whatever the, you know, noob actors think that that it should be, you know.

[43:17] Jason Gotay: So it just I had to highlight that for you and for me.

[43:20] Joe Carroll: Totally.

[43:21] Jason Gotay: We all need to hear it.

[43:22] Joe Carroll: Now we all need to hear it.

[43:24] Jason Gotay: Um, I've got a I've got another question here.

[43:26] Joe Carroll: Um I'm a big guy for thank you for sharing all that.

[43:30] Dan Tracy: Thank you for sharing all that, Jason. That was like that's a D that's a lot, right? So hopefully it's helpful for somebody to listen to because it certainly was helpful for me. So thank you for sharing all that.

[43:39] Joe Carroll: Yeah, we're gonna do that. Um for sure. I'm a big person. I have my backpack over here has 19 books in it. Do you have any books? Um theater or otherwise that were like very informative to you that other people like might be interested in look in taking a look at?

[43:59] Jason Gotay: Um doesn't have to necessarily be a book either. It could be a person or a researcher. Yeah, some kind of resource, some kind of class, some kind of like thing that kind of helped you at some point in your career.

[44:10] Jason Gotay: Yeah, this is really taken it back, but I remember last year of school, my senior year, and we were getting ready for our senior showcase. The head of the acting program who directed the showcase recommended a book on auditioning. I think it's called Auditioning by Joanna Merlin, who was like this, you know, amazing woman who lived this brilliant musical theater career and she became a casting director. It was written in like the early, maybe like mid-80s or early 90s. So it's you know, years ago, but it doesn't feel dated. It's something that I always recommend to students when I teach because it has a way of like breaking down how to look at um material and kind of break down making choices and working with text in a way that I always felt was very clear, very concise, um, and not too convoluted. So, yeah, auditioning by Joanna Merlin. That's one that I would throw out there, and it's one that I that I come back to every once in a while. I think that has been helpful for me.

[45:01] Dan Tracy: Cool, I love that. I'm just flashing to what because you you teach all the time and you you work with kids and you were weren't you what was remember when you were running a theater company?

[45:11] Jason Gotay: Yes, I mean Brooklyn and you had me come in.

[45:16] Dan Tracy: Yes, you came and worked with my kids.

[45:19] Jason Gotay: Yes, I totally forgot about it. It was during Cinderella or something like that.

[45:21] Dan Tracy: We were doing 13, I think.

[45:24] Jason Gotay: And you came and you know, funnily enough, I was doing a production of 13 with my theater company, and the kid who was starring in it was Andrew Barth Feldman, who it's later.

[45:32] Dan Tracy: Oh my god.

[45:33] Jason Gotay: That's right. Yeah, and he um yeah, you came and worked with us that day, and and we did a little QA and you watched a couple numbers from the show and gave us some feedback. I was so, so grateful um to you for doing that. It was such a fun day.

[45:44] Dan Tracy: That was like your hometown, like where you were from.

[45:48] Jason Gotay: Yeah, I was born and raised in that neighborhood. So I'd been teaching and directing at different kind of community theaters in my neighborhood. And then after doing it for four or five years, me and my best friend were like, let's just start our own theater company because you know we're kind of working for these other people and we're under all of these constraints. And so we formed an LLC, exit to theater company. Um we are super small, and the the momentum has been, you know, slowed dramatically, not only because of the pandemic, but because I'm the artistic director of it, and you know, I have my focus elsewhere right now. But um, but yeah, that's been an amazing amazing thing for me to have these last few years in between gigs. And I love bringing my friends out to to work with the kiddies, so thank you for doing that.

[46:24] Dan Tracy: That was oh my gosh, that was so fun.

[46:27] Jason Gotay: Yeah, I forgot about it literally until this moment.

[46:29] Dan Tracy: That's awesome. Um I love that. Um we always ask, what is the what's the most influential musical in your career for you, like when you were when you were growing up? What anything like was there one that you fell in love with?

[46:38] Jason Gotay: I mean, of course there was, but like something, something that is the most influential for you.

[46:44] Jason Gotay: Sunday in the park with Sherry.

[46:45] Dan Tracy: Of course, stuff you love.

[46:46] Jason Gotay: Nice, me too.

[46:47] Dan Tracy: Yes, yes, definitely.

[46:49] Jason Gotay: I mean, it feels like a cliche answer almost. I mean, it feels like every every theater lover just there's something about that that musical that speaks to us as artists, right? It's so hard to talk about it without feeling completely cliche, but that's that's always been the one for me, 100%.

[47:04] Dan Tracy: How'd you find it?

[47:05] Jason Gotay: Well, my best friend in high school and I were both theater nerds together, and I was very much um like Jason Robert Brown world when I was a kid, and she was very much like Sondheim freak.

[47:17] Jason Gotay: And so she introduced me to all of that canon, to Sweeney and um and Sunday and Assassins and all the rest. So I kind of I because I went to a performing arts high school, we were always looking for material and always learning about different shows. And so I found that at maybe 16 or 17 and dug right in. And it's been one that I keep coming back to always because it's so it's so special.

[47:34] Jason Gotay: It's so special. It's so special.

[47:42] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[47:43] Jason Gotay: Oh my God. I love that.

[47:44] Dan Tracy: I love that freaking show. What advice would you have for somebody who's just starting out or for perhaps for your young self? What what did you what could you what would you tell yourself when you were your 16-year-old performing arts high school self? What would you tell him about where you are now?

[48:01] Jason Gotay: It's such a hard Or what does Dan need to hear right now?

[48:04] Jason Gotay: AKA, do you have any advice for me?

[48:07] Dan Tracy: Because it's real dark over here.

[48:09] Jason Gotay: Yeah.

[48:10] Jason Gotay: Oh Dan. Dan. It's gonna be all right, Dan. First of all, I am sorry that happened to you. I never got to say it's it's always just a shitty thing to kind of deal with. And I I don't know, I would love to hear more about what went on. Man, this is such a crazy thing we do. It's a really crazy thing that we do.

[48:27] Jason Gotay: Wow, what advice I get asked this question a lot because I, you know, I I work with a lot of theater companies and I, you know, do a lot of these Q and A's. And one thing I've been kind of on a kick about in the past couple years is there seems to be a change that I'm seeing in young people. I feel like such a grandpa talking about this, but um the kids these days.

[48:46] Dan Tracy: A little bit, a little bit, totally, totally.

[48:49] Jason Gotay: Um I don't know. I see it in a lot of the kids I teach who are excited and passionate about musical theater, but they never want to show how excited or passionate they are. There's this almost there's there's this too cool for school kind of layer to a lot of young people, and I think you know, social media has a lot to do with it and cultivating this image, and um, there's this level of detachment that I see in kids right now, and it's so refreshing when I meet a kid who like so fully loves their craft and is just so excited and ready to learn everything that they can about it, and so I always try to instill in kids, teens, young people like don't be afraid to you know love this fully, right?

And to um, you know, show your joy, wear it, uh wear your heart on your sleeve a little bit more. And there's you know, I'm seeing a lot of I don't know, um, yeah, just like detached cool energy from kids who sometimes feel a little bit over it. And my advice is like, no, be into it. It is cool to be excited about stuff, right?

[49:57] Dan Tracy: How is that manifesting itself? Are people like that's awesome? Trying, are they not taking notes, or are they just pretending like they don't like it to kind of keep themselves safe?

[50:09] Jason Gotay: Um man, I think it's all of those things. I think when you're a kid, you're just so afraid of judgment um from your peers, from other kids your age. Um, and and then because of social media, right? It's exacerbated all of these insecurities, and we're constantly comparing ourselves to one another. And when you're a kid, it's so debilitating to kind of like have to compare yourself to to other people, and we you know, we're we get trapped. Um, I feel like I'm not kind of putting voice to this idea very well, but I'm always just no, it makes perfect sense.

[50:41] Dan Tracy: I mean, like I work with high school kids all the time, and I find I find that there's just this hyper pressure that like I feel like we felt also to sound like a grandfather that like there's this hyper pressure now that I didn't feel in high school. I felt I felt like a nerd because I loved musical theater more than anything in the world. I felt judged by like the 15 people that were like in my sphere that were like, Oh, you're cooler than me, and you think it's stupid that I like music.

[51:01] Jason Gotay: Right, right.

[51:11] Dan Tracy: Now you could feel that judgment from 10,000 people, you know, or or you know, whatever. So no, I see it all the time. And I always say that high school kids don't smile enough.

[51:20] Jason Gotay: Yeah.

[51:20] Dan Tracy: I get all these high school kids that I work with, and they're just like, so they're like, they want to sing, they like, you know, they want to sing good kid from from Lightning Face.

[51:28] Jason Gotay: Right.

[51:28] Dan Tracy: And they're like, oh, everything's terrible.

[51:30] Jason Gotay: Oh man.

[51:31] Dan Tracy: And I'm like, yeah, but can you smile one time in your audition, please?

[51:35] Jason Gotay: Like God, that was four years of college for me.

[51:38] Dan Tracy: Jesus.

[51:39] Jason Gotay: Just take a look at it.

[51:39] Dan Tracy: Markama was telling me that personally so seriously.

[51:42] Jason Gotay: I just wanted to be a real actor.

[51:43] Dan Tracy: I just wanted to.

[51:44] Jason Gotay: I wanted people to think I was good.

[51:46] Dan Tracy: Same. You know, so it's like, yeah, I get it. But I the difference is this that I really loved it and I wasn't afraid to eat lunch alone and be the kid who loved musicals. Like, I you know what I mean?

[51:55] Jason Gotay: Like, yeah, there's something to be said for that because while your classmate may have 70,000 followers on TikTok, they may not know what they want to do with their lives. And you knowing that this is a career path.

[52:06] Dan Tracy: You can make feel yeah, that's about them.

[52:07] Jason Gotay: Yeah, is something that you should really hold on to because a lot of people wish that they knew what they wanted to do.

[52:12] Dan Tracy: Yeah, totally.

[52:13] Joe Carroll: Um Joe, what uh let's let's let's uh sorry, Joey.

[52:19] Jason Gotay: Go ahead.

[52:20] Joe Carroll: No, I have nothing.

[52:21] Jason Gotay: I have nothing.

[52:21] Joe Carroll: I thought you were gonna ask me a question.

[52:23] Dan Tracy: We have one more.

[52:23] Joe Carroll: Okay, great.

[52:24] Dan Tracy: Oh, yeah.

[52:24] Joe Carroll: Oh, yeah, okay, we'll let you go.

[52:26] Dan Tracy: So so this is the this is the transition that I'm not allowed.

[52:29] Joe Carroll: Um okay, you're not supposed to stay transition.

[52:32] Dan Tracy: I I know okay, so I but I keep we get now our listeners, God bless you. Thank you for sticking with us.

[52:37] Joe Carroll: Um, my mom, my mom gives us notes on the show.

[52:41] Dan Tracy: Okay, and so my mom will like text me and be like, okay, listen, you're you can't say transition. When you are ha transitioning between questions, you can't say, oh, that's a good transition to our next point. You can't stop saying that.

[52:48] Joe Carroll: Just do it.

[52:53] Dan Tracy: And I for some reason I can't.

[52:56] Joe Carroll: So now use the word segue.

[52:59] Dan Tracy: Can you be like, oh, that's a great segue.

[53:01] Joe Carroll: Is that a thing?

[53:01] Dan Tracy: No, it's about that.

[53:02] Joe Carroll: No, it's about the it's about the phrase.

[53:05] Dan Tracy: It's about like just ask the next question.

[53:10] Joe Carroll: Yes, you can't call attention to the segue.

[53:12] Dan Tracy: So now I've spent 10 minutes explaining wrong.

[53:15] Joe Carroll: And it's just like saying, Oh, I have to I have a funny story. Like it's not gonna be funny if you have to tell us that it's funny.

[53:21] Jason Gotay: I see what you're saying.

[53:22] Dan Tracy: Just do the damn story.

[53:24] Joe Carroll: Tell the damn story.

[53:25] Jason Gotay: Yes.

[53:25] Dan Tracy: Love it.

[53:25] Joe Carroll: Okay.

[53:26] Dan Tracy: Exactly.

[53:27] Joe Carroll: Exactly.

[53:27] Dan Tracy: Okay.

[53:27] Joe Carroll: So the question is what is your unre what is your unreachable star?

[53:32] Dan Tracy: It's our last question. It's the end, you know, you've accomplished so much. Is there anything on the horizon that you really would love to accomplish? It can be artistic, personal, whatever you want. Is there something something you're looking towards?

[53:43] Jason Gotay: Oh man, so many things, right? I mean, all of us have have so many things we want to do before we're before we're done.

[53:50] Jason Gotay: Um, this was not the answer I expected, but it was the first one that came to mind. Teaching and having a theater company, I've I've really gotten to um experience a little bit of directing. Artistic directing and directing has always been something really exciting to me. And I would I would really love to kind of dip into that world a little bit more.

[54:10] Jason Gotay: The idea of like being the artistic director of a theater company or being like the head of a musical theater program at a college, for some reason is kind of like it's uh, you know, keeping it in the back of my head for for later. Um so that's something I think I can see life going there. That's something outside of performing that I'm really passionate about. You know, arts education, as you know, that I've spent a lot of time doing that the last few years.

[54:31] Jason Gotay: Um so yeah, I think that that world is is something I'd like to experience more.

[54:37] Dan Tracy: That's very cool.

[54:39] Joe Carroll: And we need more people like you who want to do that, because I think that so many people get into teaching for the wrong reasons.

[54:45] Jason Gotay: Yeah.

[54:45] Joe Carroll: And so many, you know, they they they you know, so finding good teachers, passionate teachers, passionate directors, you know, that's we need we need more of that.

[54:45] Jason Gotay: We need more of that in in arts education.

[54:57] Dan Tracy: And um, you know, I uh yeah, I'd want to go back to school and and and be in you know a student in Jason Gaute's musical.

[55:04] Jason Gotay: Always welcome, always welcome, Joe Carroll.

[55:07] Dan Tracy: Um yeah, that's that's great.

[55:10] Jason Gotay: Yeah, because sometimes people ask it, like answer that question with something super micro or super macro.

[55:15] Dan Tracy: I love that, you know.

[55:16] Jason Gotay: Yeah, oh man, yeah, so many things, but yeah, I just kind of want to keep doing what I'm doing, tell stories that I think are important that I'm passionate about, and make a little bit of money because I'm uh almost 32 and uh I want to start, you know, buying some stuff.

[55:29] Joe Carroll: So that's like the boring answer.

[55:31] Jason Gotay: Um no, that's not boring.

[55:33] Joe Carroll: That's not boring.

[55:34] Jason Gotay: We want we want health insurance, we want savings accounts, we want like you know what I mean.

[55:38] Dan Tracy: It's it sounds silly, but it's not like that's fundamental right in track.

[55:43] Jason Gotay: Yeah, yeah. My new biggest thing is the longest the um like writing a YouTube video as we speak about like the best way to make it as an actor is to learn how to save money. Because if you can figure out how to support yourself, you can make it as long as you want, because the business isn't going anywhere. It's just a matter of how long you can depend on it for your financial stability, which we all know is harder than we thought it was.

[56:06] Dan Tracy: Right.

[56:07] Jason Gotay: Even as someone who's been in multiple Broadway shows.

[56:09] Joe Carroll: So I'm glad that you've got this Gossip girl gig because you uh you will get your your money.

[56:15] Jason Gotay: And hopefully that will continue for years.

[56:18] Dan Tracy: Is this the note we're ending on?

[56:20] Jason Gotay: This is awful.

[56:20] Joe Carroll: This is like not where it's not.

[56:23] Jason Gotay: No, no, it's the good thing.

[56:24] Dan Tracy: Like, yeah, it's a celebration of like your success.

[56:27] Jason Gotay: It's a celebration of the beginning of Gossip Girl running for six to ten years.

[56:32] Dan Tracy: Yeah.

[56:33] Jason Gotay: And you're gonna work.

[56:34] Joe Carroll: I don't we don't know what your character is.

[56:35] Jason Gotay: You're probably not even allowed to really talk about it.

[56:37] Dan Tracy: So we're just gonna say that like 10 years from now, the character is going to be running a theater company, and you're gonna be making a million dollars an episode.

[56:47] Jason Gotay: Love everything I'm hearing.

[56:48] Dan Tracy: And you know what I mean? There's nothing wrong with any of this.

[56:51] Jason Gotay: And in between gigs, you're like teaching children and then filming indies and shit.

[56:55] Dan Tracy: This is let's go.

[56:56] Jason Gotay: Yeah, that's let's that's let's what we want.

[57:00] Dan Tracy: Love it. Jason, we love you. Thank you for taking the time to chat with us.

[57:05] Jason Gotay: We can't wait to see what happens with the show.

[57:07] Dan Tracy: Um, everybody wear your effing masks.

[57:11] Jason Gotay: Yeah.

[57:11] Dan Tracy: So that you know, these shows don't get shut down.

[57:15] Jason Gotay: You know, and just you know, we're we're proud of you and we love you.

[57:18] Jason Gotay: Thank you guys.

[57:18] Dan Tracy: Thank you.

[57:19] Jason Gotay: Thank you guys so much for having me. Love you both. Love your podcast. Can't wait to listen to the next episode.

[57:24] Dan Tracy: It's it's the best.

[57:25] Jason Gotay: Thank you guys so much.

[57:26] Joe Carroll: Thanks, thank you.

[57:32] Dan Tracy: Thank you for listening to Guys Who Like Musicals.

[57:35] Joe Carroll: We are produced by Dan Tracy and Joe Carroll, your hosts.

[57:38] Dan Tracy: You can find us on Instagram at Guys Who Like Musicals or on Twitter at Musical Guys.

[57:43] Joe Carroll: For more information about us or our show, please visit our new website at Guys Who Like Musicals.com.

[57:48] Dan Tracy: You can find our merch store, our Patreon page, and more.

[57:51] Joe Carroll: Thanks for listening.