This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:07] Jeff Malone: Welcome to Half Hour with Jeff and Richie, which is now on the Broadway Podcast Network.

[0:12] Richie Grasso: I'm Jeff.

[0:13] Jeff Malone: And I'm Richie. And on today's show, we have very excited to have two very special guest artists with us today, Vanessa Bell Calloway and Heather Alicia Simms, who are both starring in the 2023 Broadway revival of PURLIE VICTORIOUS.

[0:25] Jeff Malone: And before I hand them the mic over to them with some questions, I'm gonna give you all a little bit of info on them. Vanessa Bell Calloway is currently playing Adela Landy in the Purlie Broadway Revival. Vanessa is an eight-time NAACP Image Award nominee and has starred in the original Broadway production of Dreamgirls, which is like so cool. I feel like that is a whole nother podcast right now. As well as numerous other productions, and she stars in The Black Hamptons on BET and the Vince Staples show on Netflix. Heather Alicia Simms is currently playing Missy Judson in the Broadway revival of Purlie. She's appeared in Broadway productions of Ma Rainey's Black Bottom, A Raisin in the Sun, and many other numerous Broadway shows, off-Broadway shows, television and film roles, film roles and appearances as well. So Heather and Vanessa, welcome to Half Hour Podcast, and thank you so much for joining us today.

[1:15] Vanessa Bell Calloway: Thank you.

[1:15] Heather Alicia Simms: Thank you for having us.

[1:16] Jeff Malone: How are you?

[1:16] Richie Grasso: Yay, thanks for being here. So before we dive into your awesome performances in Purlie that we caught a few weeks ago, can you give us a little background about yourself and how you got involved in the production of Purlie? And maybe Heather, you want to go first.

[1:35] Heather Alicia Simms: Well, um, you know, often in this business, the way that you get a role is often like, wait, how? What happened? So I did this play at the Public called Barbecue, and Jeffrey Richards, our producer, um, we were filming it during the pandemic. You know, we were filming all of these plays, and then he lost an actor for the next um show that he was filming. And he was like, Oh my gosh, would you do me a great favor and do this play online? I was like, I'm home. So as we all were. And so I did it. And he was like, You saved me. You saved my life. Would you do this reading of this play, PURLIE VICTORIOUS? I was like, I would love to do a reading of PURLIE VICTORIOUS. And then after we read that play, he was like, Would you like to go to Broadway? And I was like, sure. But people say that all the time. And then you go, yes, of course. And you don't really expect to be there. Right. And that's how it happened.

[2:37] Jeff Malone: That's awesome. Awesome. What about you, Vanessa?

[2:40] Vanessa Bell Calloway: Well, I guess mine is kind of similar. Um, I literally got a text from Kenny Leon in April. A text, not a phone call, a text that was like, hey, uh, did your people call you? Because I need you to come to New York. Uh, I want you to do, I'll be doing this play. And he had the dates like this fall on Broadway. And I want you to do it. And but I need you to come to New York real quick and read. It was like next weekend or whatever it was. It was like soon thereafter. And I looked at the text like, you know, then I rubbed my eyes, like, am I reading this correct? And um, I had no reason to, I had every reason to say yes, and I couldn't think of one reason to say no to Kenny. So of course I flew in, they flew me in, and um Heather was there, and we did we did a couple days of reading the play, and then he just texted me like that after I think Friday was our first day of reading, and then he says, uh, see you on Broadway, and I was like, okay, I'll be there. And that was pretty much that.

[3:40] Richie Grasso: That's awesome. That's so awesome. And and I feel like it's it's so great to hear those stories because so many people some people will really ask all the time like, is it an email? Is it a phone call? Is it an in-person controlled? Is it a letter? You know, everyone has a different way of being notified. So we always like to ask that.

[3:56] Jeff Malone: That's a really great question. And and and kind of piggyback on that, we know this original production of PURLIE VICTORIOUS, it premiered in 1961. It was so groundbreaking for its time. How do you both feel that this revival connects with contemporary audiences today? And what aspects of the show do you think resonate most today? We haven't seen a revival of this yet. So how does this play affect the contemporary audiences today? Maybe we'll start with Vanessa this time.

[4:20] Vanessa Bell Calloway: Uh just when we were having this conversation. I was having a conversation with somebody yesterday after the show, and we were laughing, saying, I'm sure that the response we're getting now that the way people connect is probably a little different than 1961. In 1961, I'm sure some people felt like their toes were being stepped on or felt like that, you know, how dare they, you know. But it I think it resonates today because we have grown, you know, intellectually and as a community, although there's still a lot of growth left to be had. We have definitely come um a long way since 1961. But the sad thing is, and in some senses, we have not come a long way in 1961. But I think because we have in a certain ways, that people are more open and honest about where the state of our nation is, where we are as people, black and white and other.

So you can look at this information that is given to you. We say uh of the show, a little spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down. So you can look at this um uh the situation and language and everything that's being said and done with different eyes in 2023, although you understand how things used to be, and we understand that things have changed somewhat. We also see a similarity of how things have not changed as much as they should have changed. So people are able to, I think, connect because they can laugh at it. They can be honest with themselves and say, oh my God, we used to be horrible, and but we still are horrible in some sense. But is that me? And I always tell people, if you can recognize yourself, your neighbor, anything on the stage, then it makes you feel really like this is ridiculous.

This is stupid. This is ugly. Because you know, you can you see the truth right before you. So I think audiences are connecting because of all those things because they see the truth, because they know from where whence we came, they know that we haven't come as far as we should, they know we still have a long way to go, and it's right there in front of you. It just is so blatant the language and the situation and the way the characters have to survive and act and react that you can't help but go, like, oh my God, people used to really have to endure this, and in a way they're enduring other ways, but we've got to find a solution. So I think that it connects to people in a lot of different ways for a lot of different reasons.

[6:34] Richie Grasso: Totally, totally. And what about you, Heather? What do you think on that?

[6:36] Heather Alicia Simms: I mean, I think I think Vanessa said it all. I would um I would only say that um the way that Kenny decided to um look at this production, he wanted us to really showcase the love that we all had for each other. Everyone truly loves something. We could have played this as, you know, high comedy, you know, uh a true farce, and it would have resonated differently. But he wanted us to get to the love, which was really important for him. And so, um, especially like my relationship to Gitlow, I could have been just the very um haranguing wife who's just nagging and doesn't like anything that uh my husband does, and that would have been a choice, but it would have felt one note. We would have felt like we were just staying in the same place, but there was so much more room that we had to show love in you know, all of the relationships, the love between um that Idela has for Charlie, the love that old Captain has for his son, you know, and so there's so many, you know, really elevating that I think helped us to crack open pieces of the play that um really resonate with the audience.

[8:03] Jeff Malone: That's interesting to bring all of that up, and because we kind of wanted to understand how the process kind of was working with Kenny on this show and what some of his intentions were for it. Um had either of you had the chance to work with Kenny previously to Purlie?

[8:21] Heather Alicia Simms: You want to go first, Heather?

[8:22] Vanessa Bell Calloway: We we both did.

[8:24] Heather Alicia Simms: Okay.

[8:24] Vanessa Bell Calloway: Oh, you both did, okay.

[8:26] Heather Alicia Simms: Yeah.

[8:27] Vanessa Bell Calloway: That's great. And one thing I was just thinking about actually we should we should tell you about this. I don't know who your director was, Heather, but we both were a part of an a very amazing um August Wilson. I guess I'm gonna say more than a showcase. Kenny put together and I think it was almost 20 years ago, Heather, was it now? Almost a long time ago.

[8:47] Heather Alicia Simms: 2008 or something, or something like that.

[8:52] Vanessa Bell Calloway: Anyway, he put together this beautiful um display of all of August's pieces from the very first one to the last one. And it was stage readings. We had these beautiful um leather uh folders with the play in it. I did Seven Guitars, but Kenny did not direct my Seven Guitars, but he hired me. Once again, I got a I think it was an email then because we weren't doing text messages, but I got something from him like, hey, I want you to do this type of thing. And it was really great. So we went to Washington and you did your play, and then everybody came back, like you did your play and left, and then you came back, and then they started from number one and went all the way to the end. So that's how I really my first time ever really working with them, but he wasn't my director.

[9:37] Heather Alicia Simms: What play did you do, Heather?

[9:40] Vanessa Bell Calloway: We'll be right back.

[9:44] Richie Grasso: Welcome back.

[9:45] Heather Alicia Simms: I did Piano Lesson and I did King Headley, and it was at the Kennedy Center.

[9:50] Vanessa Bell Calloway: Yeah, they all of them were at the Kennedy Center.

[9:52] Richie Grasso: That's all. He's he's really amazing. He's constantly working. We're always seeing his productions up, and he's and he's doing such different shows too. And it's always whenever I see his name, I'm like, oh, this is cool. I can't wait to see what's coming next, you know. And I think that's really special. Uh one thing kind of yeah, but I did want to say one thing that we talked about on our podcast uh episode was some of Kenny's directing. We when the show starts, uh, and this is kind of like a spoiler for I guess for people who haven't seen it yet, but it starts with them kind of taking the costumes off of the rack and like taking that photo. Is it kind of intended that you are the characters or you're playing the characters?

[10:32] Vanessa Bell Calloway: That we are the players and we're putting on these clothes and we're inviting you on this journey with us.

[10:38] Richie Grasso: Okay.

[10:39] Vanessa Bell Calloway: That's what we got. Everybody loves that part. That you know, it's interesting. Kenny had this vision, and he said, I don't want to start like the play, you know, most plays you see the opening scene set already in place. And then, you know, the characters come on and they start the scene. And Kenny talked to us and he's, you know, he had a lot of dreams about this piece. He would come to work literally every day and said, tell us the dream he had about whichever section. And he said he had a dream that there should just be a rack of clothes. And we all come and get one item off that, and we put that on. And that's like Heather said, that was inviting the audience, we're letting them know, especially because of the content of this material, to let them know, hey, we are these actors, and we are getting ready to do a play, but we are asking you to come along with us, and it's gonna be okay because you're gonna go for a ride right now.

So to kind of like break that wall where you just see the characters come in as characters, but you see us coming as people, as actors, and then you you go on this journey with us, and everybody loves that opening. I tell you, people ask about that opening all the time, and they get it. They know exactly just like you were able to say, This is what it means. They get it. So his dream was good.

[11:49] Richie Grasso: Yeah, that was one of my like one of the standout things for me after seeing it. I was like, oh, okay, I get this, and I just wanted to make sure, you know.

[11:57] Jeff Malone: So, yeah. And and in terms of what Kenny's bringing to the experience, what are how did you all approach developing your characters in this production? Like, you know, what aspects of their personality? You know, there's an original probably production from long ago. I know there's even a musical version of this from the 70s, right? So, like, what what did you personally bring to creating these characters for this new revival in each? I guess we'll maybe we'll have the first one.

[12:21] Heather Alicia Simms: Well, you know, for me, I wanted to step out of this idea that I don't want to say step out of it. I wanted to step into the love that she has for her family. And what she really wants. People keep saying, Well, what does she want? What does she want? She wants her family, you know. And if this family is around the church, or family is around um this young woman coming and maybe being the hope for a new generation. And so where can she solidify just the idea of having Gitlow and Purlie and Ludybell all in the same place? I think that's her dream.

[13:15] Vanessa Bell Calloway: Yeah.

[13:16] Heather Alicia Simms: To feed people and have good people around her.

[13:19] Vanessa Bell Calloway: I love that.

[13:20] Heather Alicia Simms: That's what I like.

[13:22] Jeff Malone: I was gonna say, do you feel like there was a particular moment or scene in the show that was personally impactful for you with your character?

[13:31] Heather Alicia Simms: You know, I think the moment where I'm sitting with Ludybell at the table.

[13:39] Heather Alicia Simms: You know, it's one of my favorite moments because I'm trying to get her, I feel like I'm trying to win her over to one thing, but she is so beautifully sweet and open that I'm like, oh no, of course I want you to stay.

[13:56] Vanessa Bell Calloway: And uh sometimes I'm like, even if you don't fall in love with Pearlie, please stay.

[14:01] Heather Alicia Simms: Yeah.

[14:03] Vanessa Bell Calloway: And same question for you, Vanessa. A moment in the show maybe you've connected with or what you've gone through with your personal development of your.

[14:08] Vanessa Bell Calloway: I want to ask I would like to answer the first one first if you don't mind.

[14:11] Heather Alicia Simms: Yeah.

[14:12] Vanessa Bell Calloway: Of course. Uh, about the process. Uh actually, I didn't really go in there with the process. I didn't read the play, other than when they gave it to me to read it, you know, before we um started to read it when we did our read throughs in New York. I never looked up the movie. And I didn't see Pearly, the musical, just because of the timing of my life getting to New York. You know, I was still in college when it was playing here. So I'm totally missed that. And I I'm glad I didn't. Because I did not want to come in there with any preconceived ideas. I wanted to be open to whatever Kenny's uh vision was. And I wanted to discover her on my own. I didn't want to like, I love beer riches. The fact that I'm even doing this part to me is, you know, I'm just I'm I'm like, honey, if it's good enough for her, is good is great enough for me.

And just even, you know, we have Evan and I both have pictures of uh Helen Martin and be in our in our dressing rooms, and we have the picture of the original play bill. And every day I look at that and I'm just like, oh my god, this is such an honor. So I'm glad that I didn't like see her performance to try to copy anything. Because I want to just to, especially because we're doing it in 2023. You know, I didn't want to go in as a, you know, the black mammy of 1961, you know. So I I didn't really I didn't prepare. I just, you know, I we had things that we had to look at, like for the era, you know, um, documentaries and things that we started reading. I started reading that type of thing, just to get them feel, and and then of course our dialect coach taught us things of like the the way they spoke, but I didn't want to go in there with any preconceived ideas, so I just kind of showed up and started from scratch. Cool. Answer to the first question. And what was the second question?

[15:54] Heather Alicia Simms: The second question was a a scene or a moment in the show that you really connect with. You know, one of my favorite moments in the show is we are all at the end, right when Pearlie is getting he realizes that he's got the D. And I have just taken the money from Charlie Catchapee, and he's asking to join the church. And all of us are hugged up in this joyous moment looking at him, knowing that you know we are gonna accept him. And I dela's happy because he's coming to church. But it's it's something about just the connection. But I look at all these beautiful faces every night, and it just brings me so much joy. I'm just like, and then every night at that moment, I just go like it's like it's a pinch me moment for me.

I go, Oh my god, I am on this beautiful stage doing this beautiful piece of art with these beautiful people. And I mean, really, and sometimes it almost brings me to tears. It's just something about that moment where we're all happy and joyous and hugging each other, and you know, we've taken this audience through this whole journey, it's the end of the play, it's coming up, and it just brings me so much joy in that particular moment.

[17:07] Vanessa Bell Calloway: And and to kind of reflect on that, I especially that I totally know what you're talking about at that moment because I remember that moment, and then at the end, too, when they're at the the funeral, I guess. I think that's so funny when that casket comes in standing up right. Like all the comedy goes through to the very end. And I'm I'm on this like good emotional roller coaster of like sometimes shows are a little exhausting, or sometimes shows are a little flat. This was like a I'm laughing, I'm gasping, I'm sad, I'm like all these emotions, and I get to the end of it. I started crying during Leslie's monologue at the end because I'm just so moved by like that. His monologue at the end to me is like one of my favorite moments of the whole thing.

And so I can understand what you all are feeling up there eight times a week because I'm sitting there once and I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm on this roller coaster and I feel so good and sad and I'm laughing and I'm crying. It's like a great mix of emotions in a couple of hours. This is my reflection on it.

[18:02] Heather Alicia Simms: And with that too, I feel going back to what we were talking about earlier with Kenny inviting the audience into earlier on, you hear around us as an audience member different sounds coming from different groups of people around you. And like we were very sitting in the center of the orchestra, so you could hear like these people laughing behind us, or someone next to us was like tearing up, or another person was like, Oh my god, did that just happen? So it was cool to see that. And that kind of like leads into this next question, too, because theater has the power to spark conversations and provoke change. What conversations or discussions do you hope the audience will have after seeing Pearlie? And what impact do you think this show can have to the broader social context?

[18:45] Vanessa Bell Calloway: We'll be right back.

[18:50] Heather Alicia Simms: Let's jump back into things.

[19:00] Vanessa Bell Calloway: Why are these moments so poignant? There, they're there are times when when when the sheriff comes in and says, um, put down that gun, and Pearlie says, What gun? You know, it still happens today that black people are um people are coming into their homes and being told they're being told put down the gun. It's like, wait, what what we don't have a weapon here, so what is happening? And so there's so many moments like that in this play. And it was written in 19, he started writing it in the late 50s. And why is it still poignant? Why does it still resonate?

[19:49] Heather Alicia Simms: Totally, totally, totally. Yeah, I mean, I totally agree with Heather on that. It's like I and I always say because we have these talkbacks, you know, on Thursday after the show, and that, you know, this topic, of course, comes up quite a bit. And I always say it's like, as I mentioned before, if you're sitting in that audience and you see yourself, or you heard something you said, or your grandparents used to say, or your neighbor or something, then you need to and so you need to go like, this is ridiculous. This is just stupid and it's ugly because the truth is staring you right in the face. You know, so that's what I hope people are just really looking at how how crazy this is, and that is still going on, the people still have these thoughts. My my new joke is I said, I guess this play would be able to be seen in Florida because the governor would be like, we don't want it because it's gonna hurt some people's feelings.

[20:35] Heather Alicia Simms: Yeah, right, right.

[20:37] Vanessa Bell Calloway: Crazy. Yeah, it's it's so it's so interesting. And when you and I wanna kind of ask a question, what you brought up with you know, Ossie Davis writing this in the same late 50s and then premiering a brow in the early 60s. I I feel like Ozzy Davis's impact and spirit is deeply felt in that theater during that show, especially within the performance. And I just feel like there's such honor for that work of his. Um, do you I I would love to know, do you think he'd be proud of this revival? Would he have loved to see this on Broadway all these years later? What are your thoughts on just him and his spirit with the show as a whole?

[21:11] Vanessa Bell Calloway: I think he had a lot to do with it personally, if I had to guess. Um, because they've been trying, to my understanding, and Heather probably could speak on this as well. They've been trying to get this uh rebooted for quite some time. So why did it not happen? You have to stop and ask yourself those questions too. It's not like they just got the idea last year, oh let's do it, and it fell it just all came together. From my understanding, they've been trying to do this for quite some time, and it just did not happen. So why now? I think Asi had his fingers and hands all up in here personally. And the fact that his children are a part of the production, you know, vi they're very um embedded in the fabric of what we're doing.

Um, Guy Davis, his son, um, did all of the music. I love that. So it just feels like it is still on the continuum of you know the the Davis family and Aussie's, you know, Aussie's legacy is we're they're right there. And the other day, Hasan, did I say her name right, Heather? Asna?

[22:19] Heather Alicia Simms: Yeah, she um the daughter, she said something that was so beautiful. Um, I don't know, I'm sure you heard it too, heather. When we were doing a talk back, she was talking about how much they love coming to see the show because they hear their father again. Yeah, language, you know, because I guess they said they heard pieces of this growing up, you know, different phrases and different things he would say uh that were in the play, but they were young, you know, they didn't, you know, couldn't correlate that it the correlation was between what he had written and what he did to to their lives at the time. So she said they love coming back now because she said, You bring our father back to us. They hear their father's voice. I thought that was so special. So special.

[23:01] Vanessa Bell Calloway: That's so nice. And even at the end, like when you do when the moment just happens after the bows, and you're like, oh, that was just like another tearing moment for us that you see his picture and you're like, that's that's what it's all about here.

[23:14] Heather Alicia Simms: Yeah.

[23:15] Vanessa Bell Calloway: Special. Well, we uh it it is such a wonderful piece, and we know you're all so busy, and we're gonna get ready to wrap up here. But we have one more question for you all, and um, maybe you will wanna each have us answer this separately or together, maybe it's the same story. We always like to ask our guests a fun. It could be silly or funny, or just even it don't even have to be funny, just a moment behind the scenes story that maybe our our listeners would love to hear. I a lot of our listeners like to hear something that happens backstage.

[23:41] Heather Alicia Simms: I think we I think we have some I think we had some on the stage funny moments for anything you're willing to share, anything you're willing to share.

[23:48] Vanessa Bell Calloway: I think one of my favorite moments is after we get our clothes on, we go backstage, and Vanessa does a dance. Coming on, and every night is different because Vanessa Bell Calloway is a dancer, and she tells me which style it's gonna be, and she just does it. So we are having a great time coming on the stage, and as we go off, yes, we do. We have a lot, a lot of fun, and and we also have moments where we have to do that quick change and we're back there laughing, and and then we do we we have a choir, we have a song, we have a choir that you all have not been able to hear. And the choir sometimes, which is Tara, myself, and Heather. Yeah, we we are at the choir, we sing her song in our dressing while we're changing our clothes. We do our little our little number, and I let them know when choir rehearsal is next, the next choir rehearsal.

[24:44] Heather Alicia Simms: Wait, how are we gonna get to hear it then?

[24:47] Vanessa Bell Calloway: Yeah, right, right. Well, you'll probably you'll probably never hear because any won't let us know. As far as entertainment only.

[24:55] Heather Alicia Simms: Okay.

[24:56] Vanessa Bell Calloway: Oh my gosh. Well, it's lovely to hear stories like that. And I know you mentioned Kara and we mentioned Leslie. Um, you know, those those two are doing wonderful things in the show too. Everyone truly is.

[25:05] Heather Alicia Simms: They are amazing together.

[25:07] Vanessa Bell Calloway: They are just killing it, honey, every night.

[25:10] Heather Alicia Simms: Yeah, for sure.

[25:12] Vanessa Bell Calloway: As well as Heather and Gitlow, everybody's just it's just an amazing, an amazing cast. Such an honor. It was it, it's a it's a wonderful, wonderful opportunity to talk to you both about it. And just for your listeners, Pearly Victorious is playing at the music box theater on Broadway until February. Congratulations on your extension, by the way.

[25:31] Heather Alicia Simms: Thank you.

[25:32] Vanessa Bell Calloway: Um hopefully it keeps going strong for the holidays and even into the winter. Um, it's a really, really impactful piece. So thank you all for what you're bringing to the piece too. It's truly remarkable. So thank you.

[25:41] Heather Alicia Simms: Thank you so much.

[25:44] Jeff Malone: So that's all for today for our episode of Half Hour, everyone. We thank you all so much for listening.

[25:49] Richie Grasso: Yes, we hope you enjoyed our conversation with Vanessa and Heather. Uh Vanessa and Heather, where can our listeners find you if they want to connect with you?

[25:58] Vanessa Bell Calloway: Well, I'm on all the socials. I'm on Instagram, I'm on Facebook. I don't do Facebook so much, but and um yeah, I I was on the on the Twitters, but now it's the X. So Instagram, BK Jam Child.

[26:18] Richie Grasso: Instagram, okay.

[26:18] Vanessa Bell Calloway: Yeah, Instagram for me, Vanessa Bell Calloway at Vanessa Bell Calloway. And I got the little blue check, so you'll know that's me. And then um, I have a website, Vanessa Belcalaway.com, and then I have a site that has um some podcasts that I did. Well about a hundred podcasts that I did and some shows that I created, some web series that I did that I produced and created. And it's called in the company of friends dot TV.

[26:43] Heather Alicia Simms: Awesome.

[26:44] Richie Grasso: Awesome. Okay. We'll link those in the podcast description for everyone.

[26:48] Vanessa Bell Calloway: We will and to all our listeners you can connect with us on Instagram and TikTok at half hour podcast. And also if you'd like to check out our full review thoughts on Pearly Victoria's, you can go back and listen to our past podcast episode all about that, which is also linked in the description of this podcast episode as well.

[27:03] Richie Grasso: Yeah, so thanks so much for joining us today, Vanessa and Heather. We can't wait to see what's in store for you next.

[27:09] Vanessa Bell Calloway: Yay, thank you.

[27:10] Heather Alicia Simms: Neither can we and I'm Jeff.