This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jeff Malone: Welcome to Half Hour with Jeff & Richie, the podcast where we explore the latest shows we see, sharing our insights and opinions on the performances, storylines, and everything in between. In today's episode, we discuss the new musical, THE GREAT GATSBY on Broadway. Whether you cannot catch the show in person or you want to expand your thoughts after seeing it, this episode is for you. And as always, we want to inform you that this episode will contain spoilers, so if you're ready to dive into this production, stick around with us. I'm Jeff.

[0:29] Richie Grasso: And I'm Richie, and we're thrilled to be your hosts for this episode. But before we start the conversation about THE GREAT GATSBY, a few words from our advertisers.

[0:39] Jeff Malone: Welcome, everyone, to a new episode of Half Hour with Jeff & Richie. Today, we're discussing the new musical, THE GREAT GATSBY. The party's roaring on Broadway. Transport yourself to the opulent world of the 1920s as one of the greatest American novels hits the greatest American stage. This is starring Jeremy Jordan from Newsies as the eccentric and mysterious millionaire Jay Gatsby, and Ava Noblezada from Hadestown as the enigmatic Daisy Buchanan. THE GREAT GATSBY arrives on Broadway after a record-shattering sold-out run at Paper Mill Playhouse in New Jersey. Directed by Bart Bruni of Beautiful the Carole King musical on Broadway, this story of extravagance and longing features choreography by Dominique Kelly of So You Think You Can Dance, a book by Kate Kerrigan of The Mad Ones, and a jazz-and-pop-influenced original score by Jason Howland of Little Women and Nathan Tyson of Paradise Square. Don't miss the party that The New York Times is calling lush, bewitching, and dazzling.

[1:41] Richie Grasso: They put a lot in that one, huh?

[1:43] Jeff Malone: Yeah. So, as always, let's start with our bold statement about the piece and then see how that unfolds into our discussion.

[1:50] Richie Grasso: All right. Bold statement on THE GREAT GATSBY. A grand musical that is luscious ballads, wonderful talent, but unfortunately falls a little flat in other areas, especially with some of the scene work. And I feel like this show met expectations but did not exceed expectations for what THE GREAT GATSBY could have been on Broadway.

[2:17] Jeff Malone: I'm going to read with you on this because I'm saying my bold statement has a really great opening number that was attention-grabbing, and then the rest of the show kind of left me wanting more.

[2:31] Richie Grasso: So now we really have to dive into that.

[2:35] Jeff Malone: Let's do it. All right. So talking about overall plot, I mean, listen, a lot of people already know this plot. A lot of people know this book. It's taken years to ever see something like this story on the stage at this grand level, right? And I look at something like this, we saw this in Paper Mill Playhouse, and there were some changes, although I will say I didn't notice too many. There were some, but it did look like almost the same, to me anyway, the same show I saw in the fall in New Jersey to here.

[3:05] Richie Grasso: And when you look at the overall concept, yes, obviously when you're bringing something this famous to the stage, you really have to stick to the story, the characters, the book. I get that. I wasn't expecting us to completely steer clear of different omit characters, change plot. I wasn't expecting that at all. I knew that going in it was going to need to be this. And in general, I think this concept and this plot, and what was told fine, this is fine. I don't think this is bad. I don't think this is like the best thing I've ever seen in my whole life. This is just fine. And I think what I have a problem with saying that this is fine is because I think our expectations should have been higher for an epic novel like The Great Gatsby to come to Broadway for the first time.

It should have been a whoa. And instead this was like, okay. And that's why I'm sitting here saying it's fine. I've seen much worse. There are some moments in this that I'm like, oh, this is beautiful. And then there's some moments in this that I'm like, um, so that's why I'm sitting here a little on the fence about it, you know, as a concept.

[4:18] Richie Grasso: I feel the same in many ways. I think my biggest journey for this Great Gatsby musical though is that this kind of was the first time we did something like go and see it at Paper Mill first. And we had no idea, was it going to come to Broadway? We know that it was eyeing a Broadway transfer. So going and seeing it now, what was that in the fall, October, right?

[4:41] Jeff Malone: Of 2023. Yep.

[4:43] Richie Grasso: We went in October of 2023. I feel like a musical like this in this season now, when we saw it in the fall, it hit me differently because there was a lot less that I was kind of going up against. And in many ways, I was appreciating the big, lavish, traditional musical that we were getting, as I do like to call it my checklist musical, because we were getting that over and over. And I was like, you know what, this is great. And I think I liked it better at Paper Mill. Okay. In an interesting way, because I'm like, I'm sitting here and I'm not feeling anything. And I feel like we have many people in our lives that say, you don't need to feel everything from a musical. You should just go watch the musical and have a good time.

But I think that Gatsby technically should be a musical that you feel something in. I mean, it deals with money and it deals with sex and it deals with death and big parties that oddly enough, I don't even feel like that's a party that I missed going to.

[5:53] Jeff Malone: Well, in the book, the way the parties are described, it's like next level. And I feel like here, we'll get into some design choices in a little later, but I feel like this was a little G rated of A Great Gatsby. And it was a little, and someone in one of the reviews called it a theme park version of the show. And listen, I've seen some pretty cool theme park shows. I've also seen some not great theme park shows. When we talk about things as like a cruise ship entertainment or a theme park entertainment, I guess what that ensues is that it's not Broadway level. And there is a part of me that looks at this and it's like, yeah, some of this is a little safe. And I think the book is not necessarily safe.

We are dealing with affairs up the wazoo. We're dealing with really lavish, the musical on stage lightly hints at, well, there's certainly affairs, cheating, non-monogamy. That's definitely addressed quite often here. It looks like there's uses a lot of drinking. It looks like there's use of drugs at some points. And I mean, I definitely think that a version of this could go darker. This was the kind of squeaky clean, like bring the field trip of kids to go see it from the local school. And I don't know if maybe that's what Broadway needed for a first run of this. This is in the public domain. We could see 10 more versions of The Great Gatsby on Broadway. You know what I'm saying? And we already know that there's another one in the works that this summer in Boston doing an out of town, a big commercial version of this. So, but talking about this, it's like the next Alice in Wonderland or Peter Pan or Cinderella, where we hear very many different stories of this happening and coming in the works.

[7:41] Jeff Malone: One kind of question that I have for you on this story in general is what do you feel like needs to come with a show like this?

[7:51] Richie Grasso: See, to me, I think, you know, I said we'll talk about design in a second, but when you have so many projections and the stage still feels empty and bare, it's like in the parties, we should have tons of furniture and tons of food and drinks and people and show us different rooms, move a set, have a revolving, I don't know, it seemed like pieces were moving on and off. The set was kind of lavish in that way. It was lit really well, but it was projection heavy. It just feels like I felt like the parties weren't party enough. And I liked the ensemble numbers. They were dancing, but yeah, there was, and also I was feeling things for Jay Gatsby and I was feeling things for Daisy. I was feeling their love.

I did feel that in the ballads. I actually think the ballads are the strongest part of the show. The act one finale is stunning. I feel like we're getting gorgeous musical theatre writing like we did a long time ago with swooping, gorgeous love ballads. I haven't heard that on Broadway in a long time with the rock and folk scores that we hear lately. I haven't heard full orchestral ballad in a long time. So I'm feeling that. But then I wasn't feeling for any of the supporting characters. I wasn't feeling for so much of what the supporting characters were going through. I really only felt for Jeremy and Ava and they were a standout for me because I think Jeremy and Ava are extremely talented. And I think they stood out for me and their character development.

[9:23] Jeff Malone: Yeah, I think I'm going more for like, if you're looking at something in terms of plot and concepts here for an American classic like The Great Gatsby, if we're adapting this work now into the musical form, movie form we've seen with Leonardo, and next there will be a TV show and then next there's going to be a roller coaster themed after The Great Gatsby, like who knows? Because it's all going to come out. But I'm thinking a little bit more along the lines of what could have helped with this. And I find that there are so many characters in The Great Gatsby that are underutilized, that there are stories around them that we could have developed even more, or maybe the story could have even just been about one of them.

And very similar to like Wicked, where they pass in through Gatsby's party at some point, but that the show is not actually a fully about Gatsby. It's more about like Myrtle, or Daisy was the real focus in this piece. And I just don't know if we got there. I think we got close. I think there was some nice moments. But I think there was also, like I said, some filler and things like that. And that's why I know, I think this would be an appropriate time to now kind of go into some of the direction, character performances and some of the design choices as we've been talking about a little bit here. But before we get into that, here's a few messages from those that make the show possible.

[10:53] Jeff Malone: And we're back here talking more about direction, character performances and design. So in general, like I was talking about design, costumes, top notch. Lighting, yes. Set, like we had a staircase. Okay, we had some cars, drivable cars. That's very cool. There was some aha moments there. The projections were nice. Like it almost looked like a backdrop at times behind them. There was a lot of moving pieces, you felt like we were moving through. I thought the stage was very bare at times. I'm kind of getting sick and tired of that Broadway of constantly seeing these bare stages.

[11:26] Richie Grasso: Well, I feel like we've seen Mark's direction now in Beautiful. And looking at this, it kind of feels a little bit like that.

[11:32] Jeff Malone: Yeah. Overall, I mean, it's both Beautiful and this like it has a lavish set, but does it at the same time?

[11:39] Richie Grasso: Right, right, right. And when you look at that, like that has to come from the director at some point where like, hey, like we need more and more like Gatsby's mansion is supposed to be over the top. Everyone's going to be at the party over the top. And, you know, yeah, I feel like it was just there.

[12:02] Jeff Malone: Yeah, it did. It did evolve a little bit from Paper Mill, though, I will say that.

[12:07] Richie Grasso: It did. I think there were some good changes made there. Also, when we talk about choreography, what the and you mentioned this earlier, the opening number roaring on, to me, I found the bookends of this show, the first five minutes and the last five minutes to be the best parts of the show. Did you not? When that show was starting?

[12:26] Jeff Malone: That's necessarily a good thing.

[12:28] Richie Grasso: Well, whether it is or not, I'm going to say that there is something about bookending it when that when that opens up in the ensembles there, the silhouette, they're moving and jiving. It's very rich man's fugue, sweet, charity-esque. It's like fossy, but elevated. And the ensemble is in this like amoeba and they're like moving across the stage and it's like, oh, and it's like, wow, we're getting like spicy choreo here and the ensemble kills it. I really think this ensemble kills it. Like they're dancing, they're singing, they're jiving. The huge act two number where the two of them are tap dancing like crazy. And like there's some great ensemble work happening here.

[13:07] Jeff Malone: And I thought the ensemble numbers, although the act two opener with the trench coats kind of makes no sense to me and I don't really get that song at all.

[13:15] Richie Grasso: But the ensemble and then when they're doing that, roaring on the parties, roaring on at the end, you're like, oh, so choreo, costumes, ensemble. Yes. Like this is totally nailing it for me in that way.

[13:27] Jeff Malone: I would totally get that.

[13:29] Richie Grasso: And then moving over to like the score a little bit here, because like Jason Howland's music, I just think sounds beautiful, you know, was really capturing a lot of that 1920 sound in there with infusing the pop sounds of today. I got it. I believed it.

[13:48] Jeff Malone: And there were some catchy moments. I do feel like, and listen, we got to talk to Kate Carrigan and Nathan Tyson, who both—Kate did the book, Nathan did the lyrics. So it was nice chatting with them because we wanted to really understand their process with how they kind of added to these characters, gave them depth, and what they wanted to bring there. And it was cool to hear their process of like how one might say, okay, well, I'm gonna write the song now or oh, well, I'm gonna write the book scene, you know? And I feel with some of the lyrics and with the music, like that's where we probably wanted it to go a little bit more risqué or like dirtier in a way that you could kind of feel bad for these people that they're so infatuated with wealth and partying and things like that.

And that's where I think the G-rated side of this came in. When I think of like Andrew Lippa's The Wild Party, and I think of some of the songs from that and the grit and the jazzy grit of the 20s and things like that, I think that was—yeah, I know what you're saying, like that edgier vibe. But I will say with Jason Howland, I love the Little Women score, and I love Paradise Square, and I love this score because I think the uptempos are fine. The filler songs are okay. The ballads, I am very, very, very impressed with Jason Howland's ballads. I think he writes a swooping ballad right up there with Lerner and Loewe, right up there with Rodgers and Hammerstein, right up there with Andrew Lloyd Webber.

His quality of ballad is stunning. I can like the Daisy, that whole song Daisy to me was right in my heart. I think Jeremy sang right through the heart on that and in that act one finale, and Jeremy's act two finale number, I think that is the strongest part of this, is the gorgeous orchestral. But then there's some filler songs. I think some of Myrtle's songs are really not hitting it for me. I feel, Jeff, I don't know if you agree with me or not, I feel like nothing for her, which is so sad, but I feel absolutely—I know when the car accident's coming up because we saw it at Paper Mill, I've read the book, I knew it was coming, and I'm like, oh, she's about to get hit by the car. She's about to get hit by the car.

It's coming in a minute. It's coming in 30 seconds. I should feel something right here, right? And instead I'm like, yeah, I don't know what she's doing singing in the middle of the street like this, and then the car hits her. I don't know, like her and her husband's relationship. Oh, the husband singing the song to the sign with the eyeglasses on the billboard, looking down at them. I don't get that at all. That was so filler for me. So filler for me. I would have rather a 90-minute musical than those songs. I hate to say it, you know?

[16:39] Richie Grasso: This is what's interesting because I find that Myrtle is one of my favorite characters because she is most of the drama in this overall piece anyway. Everything gets messed up from her, but also to her. And if there was any character that I really wish they had developed more, it was Myrtle to kind of see more about where she comes from and why she is the way that she is and acts the way that she does. And instead, she still is a filler character in this piece. But that ultimately changes the whole story by getting hit by the car and also getting pregnant and is the whole mess in this little circle to begin with. Why are we not getting those songs from her, though, is my question? And why does she come out and is not directed in any specific way, but to just come out and be like she is in the middle of the street, but we don't know she's in the middle of the street.

We're kind of just left there guessing, singing a song that we kind of don't remember, but should be gut-wrenching, terrible, because she is learning all of these things about herself. And a car then hits her, and boom, we're completely removed, but we don't feel anything. And why? And there's a lot of supporting characters here. Nick Carraway is the narrator. You feel kind of, but also he's the narrator. Jordan Baker, Sam Pauly's character, fine. I don't know, nothing really sat with me like Gatsby and Daisy. And so when we look at some of these—

[18:18] Jeff Malone: Right, and Jordan, Sam Pauly, and the—

[18:24] Richie Grasso: There was Noah J. Ricketts, there was Sarah Chase, there was a lot of supporting characters. Right, but when they're having their song together, I'm like, we don't care about this song.

[18:32] Jeff Malone: Mm-hmm.

[18:33] Richie Grasso: Right? We know that they're falling in love, and then they fall out of love so quickly, but I'm like, do we really care about them enough to have a song about love? Maybe those were not the characters. But then it makes me go back because from the narrator's standpoint in the film, which is Tobey Maguire, he's the important part there because that movie made it about him coming in and really narrating his time, and I think that actually kind of was missing from this. And in talking about some of these character performances, though, I will say, yeah, they were all fine. Everyone was well cast in their own role, but I still think this is the Jeremy and Ava show, and I think it's rightfully so. And I think I only got excited when Jeremy and Ava were singing or when the ensemble was dancing. That was the only two moments that I felt things in this whole two and a half hours.

[19:27] Jeff Malone: Well, my standout performance is the ensemble. I don't even know if it's Jeremy and Ava. They're great. They vocally are killing it, for sure. In the acting category?

[19:41] Richie Grasso: Well, I actually think Ava could have had more pulled out of her. I've seen Ava belt in Saigon on that exact same stage, and this was a little reserved. It was a little reserved of a Daisy. It was fine. I thought her second act 11 o'clock number was really short. It was like 90 seconds. And then I was trying to understand what she was singing about. This is after Jay Gatsby dies, right? And then her character just kind of fades into the background. I was like, oh, okay. But I will talk about something.

[20:09] Jeff Malone: Were she singing about the baby?

[20:11] Richie Grasso: Yeah. It was just a little off. Like, why is she singing about this right now? But I will say, Jeremy's... I've never heard Jeremy sing better. He is given—when you talk about just vocal, they're giving Jeremy a lot of vocal, and it is very clear he has a Tony nomination potential. And I do want to talk a little bit about some Tony nomination predictions and our overall thoughts on the show, but first, a few messages from our sponsors.

[20:38] Jeff Malone: And we're back. So talking about these character performances and just the piece in general, just so you all know, we're recording this before Tony nominations are out, so you'll be listening to this. Tony nominations will already be out, but we're going to make some predictions on where we could go with Tony awards with this. Jeff, what are your thoughts on where this could go?

[20:56] Jeff Malone: I think that Jeremy will get nominated. I think that Ava will get nominated. I think Score will be nominated, Costumes, Choreography. I think it is going to get left out of the Best Musical nominations.

[21:12] Richie Grasso: Really?

[21:12] Jeff Malone: And I also think it's going to get left out of Direction.

[21:16] Richie Grasso: Okay, it might get left out of Direction. I don't think it'll get left out of Choreo. I think it will be a Best Musical nomination. I really do. I think it will be nominated. I'm not saying it's going to win, but I can see it. I think that the mainstream, splashy, period piece musical, sure, this is it for Best Musical. And I'm going to say something.

[21:38] Jeff Malone: But that doesn't mean that the Tony nominators are going to put it there.

[21:43] Richie Grasso: We'll see. I think they will. So I guess we'll find out in a couple of days.

[21:49] Jeff Malone: They will, and I think they won't.

[21:51] Richie Grasso: But I will say something. Jeremy and Ava will both be nominated. I'm going to tell you something right now. I think one of them could win. That's another bold statement. I think it's time for Jeremy or Ava to win. And I think one of them could win. I'm not saying that one of them will, but it would not shock me in the least if I found out one of them won because of the vocals they're putting out in this. That is a very bold statement because we know Jeremy's not winning to Jonathan Groff. We don't know. We don't know. Maybe. But that's my thoughts.

[22:28] Jeff Malone: And this is not the role that I would want Ava to win for. She should have won for Hadestown. Did she win for Hadestown?

[22:33] Richie Grasso: No, she didn't. She was nominated for Saigon, and I believe Hadestown, too. I don't know if I see anyone else getting nominated in this. Costumes? Sure. I mean, there's some gorgeous costumes up there. A lot of the creative decisions in here will be nominated.

[22:48] Jeff Malone: And score. It could get a score because I think it's very original and very nice. I hope it gets a lot of these nominations. And I will say, being at one of the—I think it had just opened. No, it didn't. It had not opened yet. We were at a late preview. Tickets are definitely selling. I definitely think this is the appropriate theater for it. I will say that the audience is very touristy already. It's a mixed bag of teens, families. Broadway theater is very hard. We can tell over the last 10 years what has lasted fully in the Broadway theater. And it's a hard one to sell for some reason. It's uptown off the beaten path a little bit. But you would think. It's the Broadway theater, if someone's looking at something. But listen, this show is doing what it is set out to do. And like you said, it is packed with people. It is selling tickets. People love Jeremy Jordan, so it is not a problem there. And the energy in the room, you could tell, enjoys it.

[24:03] Richie Grasso: Yeah, people were enjoying it. I even knew a few people there just talking to people at intermission and after the show. You hear people enjoy period pieces, and this is a period piece. And like I said, I enjoyed parts of it. There were some parts of it that I was like, yes, choreo, yes, vocals. But as a plot-driven piece, as a storyline, yeah, I think it's tough. If you can't steer far away from the book, you're going to be kind of putting yourself in a little bit of a box. And that's why I'm sitting here saying I liked it. Would I see it again? Sure. I didn't hate it. I didn't hate it in Paper Mill. I remember leaving Paper Mill thinking it was ready for Broadway. I do remember thinking that.

But when you look at this extremely saturated season with tons of theater, this would have done better in a weak season. And I don't mean to be disrespectful. I just think this could have done better if there was half the amount of shows that there are right now. Do you understand what I'm saying?

[25:01] Jeff Malone: Yeah, but I think it also had the bones and the structure to do really well. And because of everyone kind of rushing to the stage, and I know like in The Wings, there are these other Gatsby productions happening, this one probably said like the time is now, let's just do it. I think it could have used like one more pass around before hitting Broadway on just making sure it was like completely ready. And hey, it's what they wanted to put on the stage. So they're doing it. They're having a good time. It will do well for now.

[25:26] Richie Grasso: Oh, yeah, it'll do well for now. And who knows how long it'll last. But I think there's plenty of people seeing it and the energy is there. So it's not hurting, you know, so.

[25:37] Jeff Malone: Oh my gosh, we're almost out of time. We're getting ready to wrap up. Let's give our final thoughts on The Great Gatsby, a new musical on Broadway. Jeff, go.

[25:50] Jeff Malone: It is the tourist musical, and it will have a lovely run for now. I think that, you know, Jeremy and Ava are doing some great things. And yeah, it was fun. I really enjoyed Jeremy and Ava the most. The score is luscious and gorgeous. The talent of that ensemble dancing like that is wonderful. And it was, like I said, it was fine. It was a nice show. I'm not sitting here raving about it, giving it every single ounce of my being. I didn't leave. I didn't hate it. I'm just sitting in the middle. And it was enjoyable for the most part. But I think that, like I said earlier, in this really saturated season, this is tough to stand out when you have very different works of all styles on Broadway right now.

And I wish it well because I think all of them are working really hard up there. And like I said, that roar—I can't wait for the album to come out just because that Roaring On song is stuck in my head. And I will say some of the songs get stuck in my head, which is a compliment to the score. Because a lot of times I leave shows and I'm like, what am I? I don't remember any of this. But it was nice. It was nice. So that does wrap up our discussion on the episode today. We hope you enjoyed our deep dive into The Great Gatsby. We're going to share the link with ticket information in our description here. And don't forget, we want to hear from you. Continue the conversation with us on Instagram at Half Hour Podcast and let us know your thoughts on The Great Gatsby.

If you enjoyed our show, please leave us a review. Your feedback helps us bring more theater to you. Remember, you can listen to past episodes and stay tuned for upcoming ones as well. Until next time, I'm Jeff.

[27:29] Richie Grasso: And I'm Richie saying tata for now. Bye.