This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Steven Ferezy: Take one.

[0:01] Dana Craig: Knock knock.

[0:04] Steven Ferezy: We're Steven and Dana.

[0:05] Dana Craig: We can't believe you.

[0:10] Steven Ferezy: We're so bad you're listening to.

[0:12] Dana Craig: We would never listen to.

[0:13] Steven Ferezy: But I don't even want to listen to it to edit it.

[0:15] Dana Craig: I don't even want to wake up anymore.

[0:18] Steven Ferezy: Steven and Dana.

[0:20] Dana Craig: In the room.

[0:26] Steven Ferezy: Dana, you haven't seen Pippin.

[0:30] Dana Craig: And here's how I know you haven't seen Pippin. While we were texting about like what shows we're gonna do and kind of making our list, every time you spelled it P-I-P-P-E-M.

[0:44] Steven Ferezy: Right, because I know Scotty Pippen from the Chicago Bulls.

[0:49] Dana Craig: A famous basketball player.

[0:54] Steven Ferezy: Listen, I know okay, fine.

[0:56] Dana Craig: Okay.

[0:57] Steven Ferezy: Great.

[0:57] Dana Craig: Okay.

[0:58] Steven Ferezy: It's spelled differently.

[1:00] Dana Craig: I also know a couple songs from that, and I have seen Andrea Martin's incredible performance.

[1:07] Steven Ferezy: Oh my god.

[1:08] Dana Craig: Of what is it called?

[1:12] Steven Ferezy: I wrote it.

[1:13] Dana Craig: I have to admit I missed this revival.

[1:16] Steven Ferezy: I did not see it.

[1:18] Dana Craig: And I regret that.

[1:19] Steven Ferezy: And I have to live with that for the rest of the city.

[1:22] Dana Craig: Oh, it's called No Time At All.

[1:23] Steven Ferezy: Please, yeah.

[1:24] Dana Craig: No time at all.

[1:26] Steven Ferezy: She is doing some acrobatic stuff in the air.

[1:31] Dana Craig: What is she? 65? Like I don't want to be able to do it.

[1:33] Steven Ferezy: What do you think stage earnest?

[1:36] Dana Craig: What do you think Pippin is about?

[1:39] Steven Ferezy: I know it's like circusy and is it Steven Schwartz?

[1:44] Dana Craig: Yes.

[1:45] Steven Ferezy: And it's Fossey.

[1:47] Dana Craig: Yes.

[1:48] Steven Ferezy: Correct.

[1:48] Dana Craig: Okay.

[1:48] Steven Ferezy: And it's a little circus-y.

[1:50] Dana Craig: I know there's like a.

[1:52] Steven Ferezy: What is it? The lead character.

[1:56] Dana Craig: What is the leading player?

[1:58] Steven Ferezy: The leading player.

[2:00] Dana Craig: And I know they're all in their active wear.

[2:02] Steven Ferezy: The leading player.

[2:04] Dana Craig: I know Ben Vereen was in it.

[2:07] Steven Ferezy: The original.

[2:08] Dana Craig: Yeah.

[2:08] Steven Ferezy: I know Tatiana Maslani.

[2:10] Dana Craig: No.

[2:11] Steven Ferezy: Um Tanya Pinkins.

[2:12] Dana Craig: No.

[2:16] Steven Ferezy: Patina Miller.

[2:17] Dana Craig: Patina Miller was the new Ben Vereen.

[2:21] Steven Ferezy: Did you know the leading player? Did you know that that casting makes them the first actors to win best leading actor in a musical and best leading actress in a musical for the same role?

[2:36] Dana Craig: Uh uh, I want more of that.

[2:38] Steven Ferezy: Thank you.

[2:39] Dana Craig: I want more of that.

[2:40] Steven Ferezy: Oh, that's awesome.

[2:42] Dana Craig: Well, it's a gender neutral role, is it not?

[2:47] Steven Ferezy: Yeah.

[2:48] Dana Craig: It's like the narrator or something.

[2:50] Steven Ferezy: Yeah, it's a smart choice.

[2:53] Dana Craig: It's a smart role to cast interchangeably.

[2:58] Steven Ferezy: So yeah, Pippin. I don't know why I've missed it.

[3:03] Dana Craig: Uh-huh.

[3:04] Steven Ferezy: I don't know why I didn't run to the revival.

[3:08] Dana Craig: I can't answer that for you.

[3:11] Steven Ferezy: Um.

[3:12] Dana Craig: Is Steven Schwartz my favorite composer of all time?

[3:17] Steven Ferezy: I don't know.

[3:20] Dana Craig: I don't know.

[3:21] Steven Ferezy: Are you a fan of Pocahontas?

[3:25] Dana Craig: I just, I can't tell you why.

[3:28] Steven Ferezy: Um love Fossey.

[3:31] Dana Craig: Sure.

[3:31] Steven Ferezy: Love Patina Miller.

[3:32] Dana Craig: Well, listen, also love Andrea Martin. Let's think about opportunity. Like, I lived in LA, and like once in a while, some theater would do a Pippin, and that's how I saw it.

[3:42] Steven Ferezy: It was by no means a Broadway caliber production of Pippin.

[3:47] Dana Craig: Um has ever done Pippin in my world at all ever.

[3:51] Steven Ferezy: Yeah, like who's doing Pippin in Wisconsin?

[3:55] Dana Craig: And we didn't have a revival until we had a revival in 2013, 14.

[4:03] Steven Ferezy: I think 2013.

[4:05] Dana Craig: Um, so it's one of those we that's just not done all the time.

[4:11] Steven Ferezy: So you can't always go see it.

[4:14] Dana Craig: Except on Amazon Prime.

[4:17] Steven Ferezy: Again, Amazon Prime is saving our asses.

[4:19] Dana Craig: I also want to mention Broadway HD has a lot of filmed broadcasts.

[4:24] Steven Ferezy: Yeah, which I believe is like a channel on Amazon Prime.

[4:29] Dana Craig: So if you subscribe to Broadway HD, you may be in with the primeness of it all anyway.

[4:36] Steven Ferezy: But if you don't have Broadway HD, you can rent it.

[4:39] Dana Craig: Something like that. I do want to say that I said Andrea Martin was 65-ish. She is now 74, and that revival was what, maybe five years ago?

[4:51] Steven Ferezy: Coming up on eight.

[4:54] Dana Craig: Really?

[4:55] Steven Ferezy: 2013 was eight years ago.

[4:58] Dana Craig: I am so old and everything's going so quickly.

[5:00] Steven Ferezy: But she did it in 2013 and 2014.

[5:03] Dana Craig: She did part of the tour in San Francisco and LA.

[5:06] Steven Ferezy: Okay, so she was in her late-ish 60s, swinging around in the air, being held by her ankles.

[5:14] Dana Craig: I can't. I can't with that.

[5:15] Steven Ferezy: She's great.

[5:17] Dana Craig: It's a queen. Get into it.

[5:20] Steven Ferezy: Uh, but yeah, I'm excited to watch that as well.

[5:22] Dana Craig: And I do know, you know, everyone's a little bit more. I am too. I'm gonna watch that one with you for sure because I could use a refresher on Pippin.

[5:31] Steven Ferezy: Hold on. Anyone who's done theater or reviews or had to like stand around in auditions knows Corner of the Sky.

[5:41] Dana Craig: Like every male has sung that in some capacity.

[5:48] Steven Ferezy: So I know that. Like which is the whole like mission song, right? Like it's Pippin telling us what he wants and what he's going to do and what he needs to do.

[6:01] Dana Craig: He will find that corner of the sky down there.

[6:05] Steven Ferezy: And I do know Magic To Do. Uh uh, did they do that at the Tony's?

[6:08] Dana Craig: That's the biggest thing.

[6:10] Steven Ferezy: Yeah, I imagine they did, if not like as their performance, as either part of their performance or as part of the opening number, maybe, and some sort of magic to do's at a lot of things as like a little bit of a tongue-in-cheek.

[6:25] Dana Craig: Um I remember it on Gilmore Girls. There's like a whole scene trying to happen while the kids in Miss Patty's dance barn are like trying to do their magic to do recital number.

[6:38] Steven Ferezy: No way.

[6:39] Dana Craig: I feel like, uh you don't come for me. Do not come for me. But I think here's it's like watching a trailer for a movie. Sometimes I watch the trailer and I'm like, oh well, now I've just seen the whole movie. That's what I think I've seen Magic To Do and Corner of the Sky and Andrea Martin flipping around in the air. Like, what more do I need to see of Pippin?

[7:00] Steven Ferezy: I will let you know that Simple Joys is one of my favorite songs from Pippin.

[7:05] Dana Craig: I love it so much.

[7:07] Steven Ferezy: I don't know.

[7:08] Dana Craig: I love Simple Joys.

[7:11] Steven Ferezy: Simple Joys.

[7:12] Dana Craig: I don't think I know that song. I'll have to re-listen to it.

[7:15] Steven Ferezy: But yeah, excited, because this is a fun one, right? Like it's a good one.

[7:18] Dana Craig: Yeah, and I'm excited to watch it again because it's like old filmed musical.

[7:24] Steven Ferezy: Uh it will not be filmed the same way that, um, you know, even Sweeney Todd was filmed or Hamilton or Shrek, any of these newer I'd say in the last like since Sunday in the Park Get into the Woods.

[7:40] Dana Craig: Um well, yeah, this this version on Amazon Prime is from 1980.

[7:46] Steven Ferezy: Yeah.

[7:48] Dana Craig: Uh Ben Vereen, William Cat, Leslie Denniston.

[7:54] Steven Ferezy: I'm excited.

[7:55] Dana Craig: I love Ben Vereen. My God.

[7:58] Steven Ferezy: Oh, and it should be noted that John Rubenstein, who did Pippin originally, came back into the revival and played Charlemagne, I believe.

[8:09] Dana Craig: Um, and also did that on tour. So that's cool to like play Pippin and then play Pippin's father all these years later.

[8:16] Steven Ferezy: So fun.

[8:19] Dana Craig: So funny. I think there's a perspective to the role that like is so unique. Do you have any more tidbits on Pippin?

[8:26] Steven Ferezy: Do I have any more tidbits on Pippin?

[8:30] Dana Craig: Um not really, because it's not as in me as Sweeney Todd is. I could kind of roll out of bed and have a discussion about Sweeney Todd on a panel.

[8:43] Steven Ferezy: I don't know that I could do the same with Pippin.

[8:45] Dana Craig: Um, but I know that music and I know this story. What I didn't know when I was looking it up is that it opened at the Imperial Theater, but then moved to the Minskov for a few months before it closed.

[9:00] Steven Ferezy: Um interesting.

[9:02] Dana Craig: Which is always interesting, you know. I was surprised to see that it only ran for a few months at the end because why go through all that to move your show to a new theater if you're gonna close in under six months?

[9:16] Steven Ferezy: Um you know, like Lion King moved from the New Amsterdam to the Minskov as well, but uh still going. They've made back their money on that investment.

[9:27] Dana Craig: Um so I just thought that was interesting.

[9:31] Steven Ferezy: Um period.

[9:38] Dana Craig: Well, with that, I would like to say I'm excited to start my Pippin journey.

[9:47] Steven Ferezy: And this is you're hearing my voice right now. This is Dana Craig before she has seen Pippin.

[9:53] Dana Craig: When you hear me again, it will be Dana Craig post-Pippin.

[9:58] Steven Ferezy: Post Pip.

[9:59] Dana Craig: Mary Testa played the Andrea Martin role at Kansas City rep.

[10:06] Steven Ferezy: No way.

[10:10] Dana Craig: 2012. I have a question. Was the Andrea Martin role always flipping upside down in the air? Is Mary Testa doing that?

[10:17] Steven Ferezy: This I mean the revival was as I remember and understand, like very circus-y.

[10:24] Dana Craig: It was there were circ folk, there was circus training, there was circus.

[10:30] Steven Ferezy: It was circus.

[10:32] Dana Craig: I don't really upped that.

[10:34] Steven Ferezy: I mean, I don't think I'm not gonna say that.

[10:39] Dana Craig: Um I think it was more circus tricks than any previous production.

[10:47] Steven Ferezy: I think that's fair to say.

[10:48] Dana Craig: Because I did not get a press release about Mary Testa hanging upside down.

[10:52] Steven Ferezy: I feel like we both would have known that.

[10:54] Dana Craig: There would have been footage, there would have been some injury that we know about, like I know.

[11:01] Steven Ferezy: I know a couple people on this cast list as well, but not enough to like call them up and ask them.

[11:08] Dana Craig: All right, well.

[11:08] Steven Ferezy: But Kansas City rep is dope.

[11:10] Dana Craig: They do good shit.

[11:11] Steven Ferezy: Okay.

[11:12] Dana Craig: Yeah, that's kind of my notes on Pippin. Um be totally new to me, but it will be certainly the first time in a while that I've spent some time with Pippin, so that'll be fun.

[11:21] Steven Ferezy: And with that, I'm gonna go watch Pippin, you guys.

[11:24] Dana Craig: Same queen.

[11:26] Steven Ferezy: Dana, you're back in the city.

[11:28] Dana Craig: Steven, I'm back in the city.

[11:31] Steven Ferezy: Here where you belong.

[11:33] Dana Craig: Here where I belong, and not to like start this chunk with bad news, but I returned. I was in Wisconsin for about three and a half months. I returned to New York City, and my landlord says get out.

[11:48] Steven Ferezy: So we're basically like evicted, but it's because like his daughter is moving in.

[11:55] Dana Craig: And so I can't even be mad.

[12:02] Steven Ferezy: You assume that something you did caused you to be evicted.

[12:07] Dana Craig: No for our own, and I've lived here for 13 years, so now we are we have been looking and hauling our asses all across the new New York Tri-State area.

[12:18] Steven Ferezy: And guess what? But per the Craigslist listing that went to the in the room account, you really liked that special space.

[12:25] Steven Ferezy: Yes, okay, so that was our number two place, but I think we found one right up the street.

[12:31] Dana Craig: And it's the number one place is still looking good.

[12:34] Steven Ferezy: Yeah.

[12:34] Dana Craig: Yeah.

[12:36] Steven Ferezy: That's the update. I know nothing about Broadway at this point.

[12:40] Dana Craig: Um just talking about it.

[12:42] Steven Ferezy: Okay, well, I know something about Broadway.

[12:44] Dana Craig: Tell us all.

[12:45] Steven Ferezy: I know a couple of things about Broadway. Number one, the Broadway Podcast Network has an iOS app.

[12:51] Dana Craig: I heard.

[12:53] Steven Ferezy: Have you heard?

[12:54] Dana Craig: I never you heard in the meetings?

[12:57] Steven Ferezy: Tell me everything.

[12:58] Dana Craig: Get this. Here's okay. Here there's things in here that I even I didn't know. Like that you could add a non-BPN apps to the BPN app so that BPN can be like your podcast app.

[13:13] Steven Ferezy: Oh, it's like a hub.

[13:15] Dana Craig: For yeah, it can be a hub. So yes, you have easy access and exclusive access to early release episodes as well as live events and video content that's from the YouTube channel.

[13:30] Steven Ferezy: Um, but you can also like add your other podcasts, add your Alec Baldwin in there.

[13:36] Dana Craig: Oh my gosh, you can curate your own list. And that way you just like, you know, it's the little things these days, right? So when you have your choice of podcast apps, why not choose the Broadway one?

[13:50] Steven Ferezy: Right.

[13:50] Dana Craig: So you could choose iTunes. Broadway be the focal point there too.

[13:54] Steven Ferezy: Exactly. Everything about it when Broadway is in your heart, you yeah, you need like the Broadway option of all your apps.

[14:02] Dana Craig: Yeah. Oh my gosh, I love that. Well, I need to download that.

[14:06] Steven Ferezy: Yeah, it's super cool. Also, for those of you or for the LA contingent of in the room, um, it's fully integrated with Apple CarPlay, so you can drive safely while listening to us, which uh maybe unsafe in and of itself.

[14:25] Dana Craig: Fabulous. Uh, great podcast. Uh, highly recommend you download. You can obviously just go to the app store and search Broadway Podcast Network, or if you are um, you know, a web browser person, you can BPN.fm slash app it out.

[14:42] Steven Ferezy: Well, slash app it out because of the way I set myself up to fail.

[14:49] Dana Craig: Um to be clear, you added it out.

[14:52] Steven Ferezy: It's slash app. BPN dot fm slash app.

[14:58] Dana Craig: Thank you. And you can go to that URL and uh download that way.

[15:05] Steven Ferezy: And I shall I know I know it was in beta testing mode, so now this is very exciting that we can release it and tell everyone to you know everything about it.

[15:15] Dana Craig: Yeah, a lot of work went into it.

[15:17] Steven Ferezy: A lot of work went into it. Listen, we're fancy.

[15:21] Dana Craig: Broadway podcast network is fancy.

[15:23] Steven Ferezy: Yeah, now that I know I didn't know about the integration, so I'm gonna try that. I'm gonna put in some of my other podcasts, um, which have all fallen by the wayside because I'm not commuting anymore, so I'm really not listening to any podcasts.

[15:36] Dana Craig: Right. We're out of our routines. But if I can add them in, I want to see how that works and see um see what that does for me.

[15:46] Steven Ferezy: Sure. Um, what else is happening in the world of Broadway since I my life has been turned upside down the past few months?

[15:54] Dana Craig: Um Steven's Broadway beat. Well obviously, um, Scott Rudin is having his day.

[16:02] Steven Ferezy: Yeah, the book because he's an abuser.

[16:04] Dana Craig: He's a monster. He's terrible. Thank you, Karen Olivo.

[16:08] Steven Ferezy: Thank you, um, everybody who marched the other day.

[16:13] Dana Craig: Obviously, this has resonated with most everyone we know. Um, but when Karen Olivo said that she wants an industry that matches her integrity.

[16:22] Steven Ferezy: Ooh.

[16:23] Dana Craig: Well, listen, Broadway's coming back, and there's some house cleaning that we need to be doing. There's some spring cleaning.

[16:29] Steven Ferezy: There is some housekeeping.

[16:32] Dana Craig: Girl, speaking of spring cleaning. Is this where we transition and say, hey, listen to us on Lady Watch?

[16:39] Steven Ferezy: We last night we got together.

[16:43] Dana Craig: How fun was that?

[16:46] Steven Ferezy: So fun.

[16:47] Dana Craig: And they did the Lady Watch Awards, and we were a presenter.

[16:50] Steven Ferezy: Yes, the fifth annual Grannies.

[16:53] Dana Craig: Yeah, and our friends uh Brian. I was so honored to be a presenter.

[16:56] Steven Ferezy: Yep, but Brian Nash, John Hill, Natalie Joy Johnson, of course, the Lady Watch Boys, Ryan and Jason. Um, you know, there's other people.

[17:07] Dana Craig: Yes, yes, yes.

[17:08] Steven Ferezy: Um our friends of the pod for sure were presenters as well.

[17:14] Dana Craig: Oh my god. And it's available. Um, so you're listening to this on Tuesday. It is available to listen to now as a podcast episode if you weren't there live um on Saturday night.

[17:25] Steven Ferezy: You can listen to it uh on the Lady Watch feed.

[17:29] Dana Craig: Yeah, it was our first uh Clubhouse experience where we didn't.

[17:34] Steven Ferezy: I downloaded a trendy app called Clubhouse for the ceremony.

[17:42] Dana Craig: Listen, we dressed up. I don't do that.

[17:44] Steven Ferezy: It you've sent me how many invitations to how many apps?

[17:48] Dana Craig: The only one I've ever tried is Marco Polo.

[17:52] Steven Ferezy: Because I can't resist a round of Marco Polo.

[17:56] Dana Craig: Alright, alright, alright. Let's get real. What are we here for today?

[18:00] Steven Ferezy: We're we're talking about Pippin friends.

[18:04] Dana Craig: We've seen Pippin.

[18:04] Steven Ferezy: We've seen Pippin.

[18:05] Dana Craig: We've educated our ourselves. First of all, I need to remind you that when you submitted your list of shows that you knew nothing about.

[18:14] Steven Ferezy: So that we had a pool to pick from.

[18:16] Dana Craig: Yes. You knew so little about Pippin that you spelled it P-I-P-P-E-N.

[18:22] Steven Ferezy: That's how little.

[18:24] Dana Craig: Because I uh I grew up with Scottie Pippen. You know, the famed Chicago Bulls player.

[18:31] Steven Ferezy: Player basketball.

[18:33] Dana Craig: I know the name more than I know that uh it was in the the sports world.

[18:38] Steven Ferezy: Yeah, so if anyone else wants to watch it, it's Bob Fossey's Pippin.

[18:44] Dana Craig: It's the 1980 version, and it's on Prime, Amazon Prime for free.

[18:44] Steven Ferezy: Amazon Prime.

[18:52] Dana Craig: Easily watchable. Um my favorite part of it was the like community theater of it all. The here's a trunk full of it like the Joe Marsh of it all. Here's a trunk of just costumes and props. Make it work.

[19:13] Steven Ferezy: Can we tell people what it's about? Can I read the Amazon paragraph?

[19:19] Dana Craig: Okay. Just to give you an idea. Pippin, 1980. Winner of five Tony Awards, Pippin is a Broadway musical that is not only a contemporary classic, but also the play that made director choreographer Bob Fossey a famous name long before Cabaret and all that jazz. Using the medieval legend of Charlemagne's son Pippin, heir apparent to the Holy Roman Empire. The musical pageant called Pippin is a parable about a young man's search for meaning and truth.

[19:52] Steven Ferezy: I had no idea that that's what it was about. Going in.

[19:57] Dana Craig: I also had no idea that Cheetah Rivera was in it.

[20:01] Steven Ferezy: That was an Easter egg.

[20:03] Dana Craig: And she is giving us legs for days. With that crown.

[20:07] Steven Ferezy: How Bob Fossey.

[20:11] Dana Craig: How Bob Fossey. William Cat plays Pippin, who I thought was fantastic as Pippin.

[20:21] Steven Ferezy: He's very much Pippin.

[20:24] Dana Craig: Can I tell you that I hated Pippin?

[20:28] Steven Ferezy: And this is not a this is not like, let's see how many musicals Dana hates.

[20:33] Dana Craig: But it is not for me. It was not for me at all. Um I I'm sure there's a version of it that I'd be more interested in. I I'm really sad that I missed Andrea Martin dangling from her ankles when it was revived on Broadway with Patina Miller recently.

[20:53] Steven Ferezy: Um I know Sasha Allen did the tour. Would love to see that.

[20:56] Dana Craig: She played, she played the leading player, which is, you know, Ben Vereen's bread and butter. He was great. But I just I I could not get into it.

[21:11] Steven Ferezy: Here's what I loved about it.

[21:14] Dana Craig: I love a show in a show, right? Because then there's two ways of watching it. There's two ways of watching it. You can either watch the show that they are putting on and suspend your disbelief and like take that journey.

[21:30] Steven Ferezy: Or and this is how I default, um, you can sit there and you can watch it, because that opening number tells you who these people are.

[21:40] Dana Craig: Who are all the players? What's their attitude? What's their you know what what role do they get. They literally came to tell a story.

[21:48] Steven Ferezy: Yeah.

[21:48] Dana Craig: Yeah. So you can watch it knowing that actor now, knowing the personality type of that actor and watching them play this part. Uh kind of the noises off of it all, the behind the act two or the act three noises off where you're, you know, kind of behind the scenes watching them work.

[22:10] Steven Ferezy: Mm-hmm.

[22:11] Dana Craig: Yeah.

[22:13] Steven Ferezy: So that is fun to me. I like watching Cheetah Rivera's cigarette smoking clown, you know, play a motherly role.

[22:28] Dana Craig: As opposed to watching Cheetah Rivera play a motherly role.

[22:34] Steven Ferezy: Right. It's it's layered.

[22:35] Dana Craig: Yeah, no, that's fun.

[22:37] Steven Ferezy: So fun. And that it was filmed in 1981, obviously the technology was what it was, but I thought like the dad standing in the back of the auditorium of it all with his handheld was so good for this.

[22:55] Dana Craig: If you were to film it today, I'd suggest filming it the exact same way. It just adds to the troop, the acting troop of it all. And it's it's so Steven Schwartz. Um it has, you know, notes of Godspell in it. I can see influences of hair in it.

[23:14] Steven Ferezy: I loved the set design when Ben Vereen pulls, you know, this little flag out of the stage and then pulls it up, and it's the whole castle.

[23:26] Dana Craig: Yeah, that was a that was magic to Tony Walton. Tony Walton did was the set designer, Julie Andrews ex-husband.

[23:37] Steven Ferezy: Really?

[23:37] Dana Craig: Oh, nice. Nice.

[23:39] Steven Ferezy: Yeah. Um, he is known for his work on all that jazz, Murder on the Orient Express, and Mary Poppins. Um, and then also obviously on Broadway, he's done everything from Guys and Dolls to Anything Goes to uh Grand Hotel and Steel Pier.

[24:01] Dana Craig: Tony Walton is a big name in this house. As is uh Patricia Ziprott, who did the costumes. She did the costumes for um, along with Ann Hold Ward, she did the costumes for Sunday in the park with George. Um I think she worked on Into the Woods too. Brilliant costume designer.

[24:22] Steven Ferezy: So Bertha who Andrea Martin played in the revival, um, in this movie was played by uh what's her face?

[24:34] Dana Craig: Martha Ray. Do you know who Martha Ray is?

[24:48] Dana Craig: So Martha Ray is someone who sued Bette Midler.

[24:55] Steven Ferezy: This is a story from 1994.

[25:01] Dana Craig: A judge Wednesday threw out a lawsuit by comic actress Martha Ray that accused Bette Midler of stealing her life story for the movie For the Boys.

[25:12] Steven Ferezy: Martha Ray thought Bette Midler's portrayal of her role in For the Boys was based on her life story.

[25:23] Dana Craig: And Bette was like, I based this on over a hundred women in the USO.

[25:30] Steven Ferezy: This has, uh, sure, you're one of them.

[25:34] Dana Craig: Um, the lawsuit was thrown out.

[25:37] Steven Ferezy: But, uh, shit.

[25:40] Dana Craig: But I remember that name as being like, ooh, Bette went to court.

[25:45] Steven Ferezy: Wait, that name stood out to you, or you just googled who played your favorite person?

[25:50] Dana Craig: No, I know, no, I know Martha Ray.

[25:53] Steven Ferezy: The name via the Bette Midler law.

[26:03] Dana Craig: Yeah.

[26:04] Steven Ferezy: Bette Midler, you gotta, uh, the Pony Express brought you a Google alert.

[26:09] Dana Craig: Here, okay.

[26:10] Steven Ferezy: The suit sought one million in damages and 10% of the 1991 film's profits on the argument that the movie evolved from a script treatment about Ray titled "Maggie," which was submitted to Midler in 1981, and which she discussed with Ray that year.

[26:37] Dana Craig: Does this become a true crime podcast?

[26:39] Steven Ferezy: However, where I was like when I was like, oh, Martha Ray's in this, oh I know Martha Ray's name.

[26:47] Dana Craig: Anyway, I thought she was fantastic as Bertha.

[26:49] Steven Ferezy: I love, that's my favorite song in the show.

[26:53] Dana Craig: It's so important in the arc of the show.

[26:59] Steven Ferezy: Yeah.

[27:00] Dana Craig: And what a, like, just a mantra and motto for life.

[27:04] Steven Ferezy: It's, uh, what is the song called?

[27:06] Dana Craig: It's some Simple Joys.

[27:08] Steven Ferezy: No.

[27:09] Dana Craig: No, Simple Joys is one of the things though.

[27:12] Steven Ferezy: No Time at All is the song that she sings to him, and to not be so serious and to live a little.

[27:18] Dana Craig: And I just love it.

[27:19] Steven Ferezy: I love old women.

[27:20] Dana Craig: I love that they bring her a microphone.

[27:22] Steven Ferezy: Songs about...

[27:26] Dana Craig: Yes.

[27:26] Steven Ferezy: Again, just like the acting troupe of it all.

[27:29] Dana Craig: It's like, did you ever read the books or watch A Series of Unfortunate Events?

[27:36] Steven Ferezy: No.

[27:37] Dana Craig: I didn't.

[27:38] Steven Ferezy: Fuck.

[27:38] Dana Craig: Never mind.

[27:39] Steven Ferezy: There's like a clowny acting troupe in that.

[27:42] Dana Craig: That's just, you know.

[27:44] Steven Ferezy: Oh, I have to be by my microphone.

[27:46] Dana Craig: Sorry.

[27:47] Steven Ferezy: Yeah, you have to be by your microphone, Dana.

[27:51] Dana Craig: There’s a lot that I liked about Pippin.

[27:54] Steven Ferezy: I just don't know if it was for me.

[27:59] Dana Craig: And honestly, it was between, you know, looking at a billion apartments, so my brain is fried.

[28:07] Steven Ferezy: I do also want to shout out, um, Jules Fisher, the lighting designer.

[28:13] Dana Craig: Who, again, just legendary Broadway name.

[28:18] Steven Ferezy: Legendary Broadway name.

[28:20] Dana Craig: Um, sorry, I lost my tab.

[28:24] Steven Ferezy: I mean, as far as films go, Jules Fisher worked on The Birdcage, The Stepford Wives with Bette, um, Chicago.

[28:33] Dana Craig: I'll work Bette into any podcast we have.

[28:36] Steven Ferezy: Right.

[28:37] Dana Craig: I'm just now, where's his, here, here, here, here, here.

[28:39] Steven Ferezy: I wanted to see what his, uh, Tony Award list was.

[28:48] Dana Craig: Uh, he has won more Tony Awards and been nominated more than any other lighting designer.

[28:56] Steven Ferezy: Wow.

[28:57] Dana Craig: You absolutely know the name Jules Fisher.

[28:59] Steven Ferezy: I know that.

[29:00] Dana Craig: Eight wins, um, as best lighting designer, including Pippin.

[29:05] Steven Ferezy: Uh, including Dancin' and Will Rogers Follies.

[29:10] Dana Craig: That was the other thing I loved.

[29:12] Steven Ferezy: There was that, uh, that number in it that wasn't Will Rogers Follies in, um, in essence, but it had what I call bleacher choreography.

[29:22] Dana Craig: Which you can just get a bunch of people sitting doing the same shit, the hand jive, you know, whatever.

[29:27] Steven Ferezy: And it was, you know what?

[29:30] Dana Craig: I love, I love a Greek chorus.

[29:32] Steven Ferezy: I loved the Xanadu of it all.

[29:34] Dana Craig: You know, I, it was thrilling.

[29:37] Steven Ferezy: Oh my god, he did, going back to Jules Fisher, he did, uh, Song and Dance and Angels in America, Ragtime.

[29:46] Dana Craig: Jesus Christ.

[29:48] Steven Ferezy: More than I even knew.

[29:50] Dana Craig: Anyway, like stellar creative team.

[29:52] Steven Ferezy: And that for Pippin, think about what Pippin is.

[29:56] Dana Craig: You need a stellar creative team to make ragtag stellar.

[30:03] Steven Ferezy: Exactly.

[30:03] Dana Craig: Because it really is awesome.

[30:07] Steven Ferezy: And feel ragtag.

[30:08] Dana Craig: With a couple suitcases saying, hey, we're gonna tell you a story, you know?

[30:12] Steven Ferezy: Mm-hmm.

[30:13] Dana Craig: Um, I have a question.

[30:16] Steven Ferezy: Did this, uh, Ben Vereen, is this his cabaret?

[30:24] Dana Craig: Like, is this his Liza Minnelli cabaret?

[30:26] Steven Ferezy: Is this his big star-making role?

[30:28] Dana Craig: Or was he...

[30:29] Steven Ferezy: I think so.

[30:29] Dana Craig: When I hear Ben Vereen, the first thing I think of is Pippin.

[30:33] Steven Ferezy: Yeah.

[30:34] Dana Craig: I just don't know maybe where his Genesis story began in the life of Ben Vereen.

[30:41] Steven Ferezy: I'm gonna tell you, let's look up his IBDB.com.

[30:46] Dana Craig: Let's do it.

[30:47] Steven Ferezy: Real quick, why not?

[30:49] Dana Craig: Um, Ben Vereen.

[30:53] Steven Ferezy: I know he's obviously done Wicked.

[30:55] Dana Craig: That's fantastic.

[30:57] Steven Ferezy: That was his last Broadway spin, I think.

[31:01] Dana Craig: Obviously, Hair, of course.

[31:04] Steven Ferezy: Um, that is listed as his Broadway debut.

[31:09] Dana Craig: He was a replacement in Hair, and then went on to do Jesus Christ Superstar, then Pippin, Grind, Jelly's Last Jam, Fosse, I'm Not Rappaport, and Wicked.

[31:25] Steven Ferezy: That's the External Links.

[31:26] Dana Craig: Ben Vereen's official website and shop.

[31:29] Steven Ferezy: Anyway, yeah, you say Ben Vereen, I think Pippin.

[31:33] Dana Craig: You say Ben Vereen, I say how high.

[31:39] Steven Ferezy: Uh, no, but, uh, okay, so summary.

[31:42] Dana Craig: I think I wanna see other versions of it.

[31:46] Steven Ferezy: Let's be real.

[31:47] Dana Craig: Like we're watching it on Amazon Prime.

[31:49] Steven Ferezy: Like we're taking the theater out of it.

[31:53] Dana Craig: Correct.

[31:54] Steven Ferezy: Theater of it all.

[31:55] Dana Craig: Um, correct.

[31:57] Steven Ferezy: I think Pippin would be way more for you in a theater.

[32:01] Dana Craig: Absolutely.

[32:03] Steven Ferezy: Because it is such a theater piece.

[32:07] Dana Craig: Yeah.

[32:08] Steven Ferezy: It's a theater formula.

[32:11] Dana Craig: It relies on the theater formula.

[32:14] Steven Ferezy: How being in a room, how that room is set up.

[32:18] Dana Craig: Um, it totally relies on that.

[32:20] Steven Ferezy: Totally relies on that.

[32:21] Dana Craig: It really made me sad I missed the revival.

[32:25] Steven Ferezy: Just to have something to compare it to, just to have a different version to, um, I don't know, to have seen.

[32:33] Dana Craig: It makes me really want to see the next production again go see.

[32:38] Steven Ferezy: Well, how do we want to wrap this up?

[32:40] Dana Craig: Uh, how I, I would say if you haven't seen Pippin, it is worth watching, if only to A, educate yourself on something important.

[32:49] Steven Ferezy: Uh, I think Pippin is.

[32:53] Dana Craig: Yeah, I think that's, I think that Pippin is important in the theater history books.

[32:59] Steven Ferezy: I think it does stand out as something to be recognized all these years later.

[33:08] Dana Craig: What it did and what it dared to do and how it did it.

[33:12] Steven Ferezy: Um, it keeps getting revived, so it's not lacking.

[33:16] Dana Craig: There's still life in Pippin.

[33:18] Steven Ferezy: Yeah, it's not a forgotten.

[33:19] Dana Craig: Dana, it wasn't for you, but I'm sure you're glad you saw it, and I'm sure that it will inform 100% a lot of the next...

[33:19] Steven Ferezy: This is what I wrote down in my notes.

[33:31] Dana Craig: I wrote, I thought there'd be more plumes.

[33:37] Steven Ferezy: I thought there'd be more plumes.

[33:37] Dana Craig: I did not know that that was from this.

[33:42] Dana Craig: He says, you know that part in Pippin.

[33:43] Steven Ferezy: He even says it in the documentary.

[33:43] Steven Ferezy: I saw Pippin, he goes, I thought there'd be more plumes.

[33:47] Dana Craig: So we're talking about Best Worst Thing That Ever Could Have Happened.

[33:49] Steven Ferezy: Jason Alexander at one point says, I thought there'd be more plumes.

[33:53] Dana Craig: And Steven and I say that to each other every day.

[33:56] Steven Ferezy: And it's in Pippin.

[33:57] Dana Craig: It's a line in Pippin right before he sings My Court of the Sky.

[34:03] Steven Ferezy: I thought there'd be more plumes.

[34:05] Dana Craig: The reprise, let's be clear.

[34:06] Steven Ferezy: Let's be clear.

[34:07] Dana Craig: It's after he, like, wins the war.

[34:10] Steven Ferezy: And he's like...

[34:18] Dana Craig: Barbara Streisand left that till the end.

[34:21] Steven Ferezy: I thought that'd be my plumes.

[34:23] Dana Craig: I know.

[34:24] Steven Ferezy: Obviously, I heard it and I knew you hadn't watched it yet.

[34:27] Dana Craig: So I didn't, I chose not to remind you.

[34:30] Steven Ferezy: So that it could wash over you.

[34:32] Dana Craig: That's right.

[34:33] Steven Ferezy: Um, like a fresh wave.

[34:36] Dana Craig: So funny.

[34:37] Steven Ferezy: Well, guys, go watch Pippin.

[34:39] Dana Craig: She does so fierce in it.

[34:41] Steven Ferezy: She does so fierce.

[34:42] Dana Craig: She's so hot.

[34:43] Steven Ferezy: Her legs, her, she's giving you, um, choices.

[34:47] Dana Craig: Her, she's in great voice.

[34:48] Steven Ferezy: She looks fantastic.

[34:50] Dana Craig: She's sultry.

[34:51] Steven Ferezy: She's witty.

[34:52] Dana Craig: She's sassy.

[34:54] Steven Ferezy: I hate that word, sassy.

[34:56] Dana Craig: But, um, she's great.

[34:57] Steven Ferezy: She's giving you peak Cheetah.

[34:59] Dana Craig: It's fierce.

[35:00] Steven Ferezy: It's fierce.

[35:01] Dana Craig: So fierce.

[35:02] Steven Ferezy: Um.

[35:03] Dana Craig: Yeah, Pippin, the 1981 production filmed in Canada.

[35:09] Steven Ferezy: I don't know if it was a tour or like a sit-down, but it was a Canadian 1981 moment.

[35:16] Dana Craig: They also break the fourth wall, which is fun, and I think it's what we were speaking of before.

[35:22] Steven Ferezy: But it's a, it's for theater people for sure.

[35:22] Dana Craig: For sure.

[35:27] Steven Ferezy: For sure.

[35:28] Dana Craig: It's fun.

[35:30] Steven Ferezy: Little fairy tale moment.

[35:32] Dana Craig: Um, well, in the rumors, this has been so fun.

[35:35] Steven Ferezy: And tell us what you're watching, and tell us what we should watch, because Lord knows we have so many blind spots.

[35:42] Dana Craig: Yeah, what other Broadway blind spots would you like to hear about?

[35:45] Steven Ferezy: Or what are like your Broadway blind spots?

[35:47] Dana Craig: What if Dana and I are super well-versed, but you don't know?

[35:52] Steven Ferezy: What if it's your blind spot?

[35:54] Dana Craig: What if?

[35:55] Steven Ferezy: And on that note.

[35:57] Dana Craig: Bye bye.

[36:03] Steven Ferezy: In the Room with Steven and Dana is produced by Stephen Ferrasy.

[36:07] Dana Craig: And Dana Craig.

[36:09] Steven Ferezy: Special thanks to Joel Wagoner for tinkling the ivories on our theme song.

[36:13] Dana Craig: Hit him up at JoelWagoner.com.

[36:16] Steven Ferezy: We apologize, and you're welcome.

[36:18] Dana Craig: We'd also like to thank Jesse Wiener, W I E N E R, for our jazzy original music sprinkled throughout each episode.

[36:26] Steven Ferezy: You can find him at jessewiener.com.

[36:29] Dana Craig: Last but certainly not least, we'd like to thank Kevin Thomas Garcia for taking all of our ridiculous photos.

[36:35] Steven Ferezy: You can find him online at KTGNYC.com.

[36:42] Dana Craig: We are all over the internet on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter at InTheRoomPod.

[36:47] Steven Ferezy: Follow us, like us, share us, pant us out.

[36:50] Dana Craig: And don't forget to subscribe to In the Room Podcast.

[36:53] Steven Ferezy: We everywhere, so subscribe.

[36:56] Dana Craig: And thank you so much for listening.