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[0:02] Devario D. Simmons: Hello, and welcome to Into Costume, a podcast in support of the Costume Industry Coalition.

[0:09] Devario D. Simmons: Each episode, I chat with costume industry insiders about the intricate process of creating iconic looks for stage or screen.

[0:17] Devario D. Simmons: My name is Devario D. Simmons, and I am a costume designer, educator, and host. Thank you for joining us today.

[0:30] Devario D. Simmons: Today on Into Costume from Broadway's A Soldier's Play, we have leading man and Tony nominee, Blair Underwood, two-time Tony nominee and costume designer Dede Ayite, and owner of RL Studio Theatrical Costumes, Ilya Fatakhov.

[0:49] Devario D. Simmons: All right, I want to thank you all for being here with us today at Into Costume. Um, we have A Soldier's Play here. We have Dede and Blair Underwood and Ilya Fatakhov.

[1:00] Devario D. Simmons: I first want to start talking about just like what A Soldier's Play is about. It opened January 2020 at Roundabout, and very few people got to see it. So, Blair or Dede, would you two just like to give us an introduction about what A Soldier's Play was about, just like pretty quickly?

[1:18] Dede Ayite: Didi, you want to take it?

[1:19] Blair Underwood: I was about to say you need it.

[1:21] Blair Underwood: That's a you. That's gonna be all you.

[1:36] Dede Ayite: Got it. Which is a bit sad to sort of end it on that note, but um, we luckily made it through most of our run. We made it through it, save two days. So we're very fortunate that we got our, we finished our run pretty much for two days. And you know, as you know, Broadway closed on Thursday, March 12th. Everything shut down, but we got a chance to do one more performance on Friday, Friday the 13th, actually, because we were scheduled to do our archival performance to film it for the Lincoln Center. And um, thankfully we're able to do that. No audience. We had, I think, 10 or 15 people up in the mezzanine, and that was it. But just very grateful that we were able to kind of pretty much finish the run.

[2:15] Blair Underwood: A Soldier's Play, of course, started in uh, it's a Pulitzer Prize winning play written by Charles Fuller. Um, it was introduced to the public in the early 1980s by the Negro Ensemble Company, the NEC in New York City. It starred people like names we know, Sam Jackson, Denzel Washington, Adolph Caesar, and uh, uh, Jim Pickett, so from uh, Grey's Anatomy today, and so many people who made names for themselves. In '83, they did a film called A Soldier's Story, uh, but had never been on Broadway, has been performed and produced all over the world, literally, but never on Broadway until now. It is a story of, oh man, you know, it focuses in the contextually, it's the world of the 1940s World War II, African American soldiers.

Um, there is a murder that happens on this particular base, and the character I play, uh, Captain Davenport, Richard Davenport, is charged with um, uh, finding out who did the murder, basically. And it really uncovers and examines all kinds of uh, humanity in the black male um diaspora, if you will, and Jerry O'Connell's character is a white officer who has never liked the black characters uh, in military men, uh, enlisted men, had never seen a black officer. So it was a very rare thing in the 1940s to see a black officer. Um, so it deals with all of those levels of self-love, of self-hate through David Allen Greer's character, especially. Um, and it's just, it's a fascinating journey and an amazing, extraordinary play.

[3:49] Devario D. Simmons: Lovely. So, because we're talking about the costumes and we're in the 1940s. I just had a snap. I mean, cover history lesson.

[3:52] Dede Ayite: Yeah.

[3:52] Devario D. Simmons: So we're in the 1940s.

[4:09] Dede Ayite: Yes.

[4:10] Devario D. Simmons: It's World War II. I should wear my hat.

[4:13] Dede Ayite: Ah, yes, the hat from my office.

[4:16] Dede Ayite: Oh, the actual hat. I should be wearing that right now.

[4:19] Dede Ayite: I don't want it in the either.

[4:23] Devario D. Simmons: So in the 1940s, World War II, right? Dede, you've been asked to do this show. Where do you still have to do that? The people and the research, right? These are real human beings um that went through the war. So for me, it was important to take the time to just pour over a ton of research, identifying like key things, key silhouettes, um, what they had access to, and then also identifying what it would mean for black soldiers to be um in the military and how racism and access to certain products and just um the way that the world viewed them, how that would um change the way they dressed and they identified with each other and they identified with power, right? So for me, I spent a lot of time just pouring over research, trying to figure out what key things I needed, but then also spending a lot of time with the script just to understand what each character wanted most, um, what they held closest to their heart, and finding a way to sort of combine what the research gave me in terms of what the actual uniform was, but uh as well as with what the characters wanted the most.

[5:32] Dede Ayite: And then the third component was the actors that I had to, you know, I got introduced to and we have fittings with them, and then pulling what, you know, their connection to the character and to the story, pulling a bit of that into my design as well.

[5:44] Devario D. Simmons: Yeah, that's gonna be actually like segueing into my next question. When you're doing that research, you're kind of solo in a way. You're like designing with your, of course, your production team together, like doing this big collaboration together. But then you get to the first rehearsal, just as a great landmark, um, and you meet your actors and they come into the room. And there's some, as you said, some personal things that you added into this, um, these characters. How did you find those things um before you met um your actor, and then how did those things change as you got to know your actor as their character?

[6:22] Dede Ayite: So I had some things I'd already identified for myself as I was working through the design that helped distinguish the different characters from each other. So with that, it was um the shoelaces on the boots, the different type of shoes a captain might have worn versus a soldier, just in terms of high rank, um undergarments also played a part in terms of what was standard, who might have deviated from what was standard because they felt a certain way or uh or moved in the world a certain specific way. Also, jewelry is one. So I didn't have a ton of things to choose from, but whatever I decided to put on stage or I was incorporating into the costume had to be super specific. So I'm looking at the dog tags, information, the dog tags.

I'm looking at, for example, um, for Blair's character, he had a pair of aviators on, right? So I'm looking at the style. I'm looking at also um the metal, go if it's gold, how warm is the gold? He also, we gave him a gold watch, I believe. And so with that gold watch, finding the backstory there, who might have passed that gold watch on to him, where might he have purchased it? And then in terms of just color tone matching the color of the gold to like Blair's skin so that under lights, it would read a certain way that it wouldn't read fake or it would feel complementary to him as opposed to like fighting or like calling attention to itself. So it's at least for me, it's just identifying these few things. And then as I meet the actors, I'm doing additional research and having conversations with them to provide a bit more information about the character.

[7:50] Devario D. Simmons: And Blair, how do you personalize? Um, I mean, we're in a uniform, right? And we all know that uniforms normally have their lists of things that you have to wear. How do you personalize that uniform for your character as you're developing him?

[8:06] Blair Underwood: You know, for me it's the um, it's it's it's it's the comfort of the uniform, literally and figuratively. When I say comfort is to feel comfortable. Well, yeah, one of the things that Dede was talking about was the specifics of the characters. But it's an interesting thing. You do a play about men wearing uniforms, you know, what those uniforms are are standard. That's why they're uniformed. Um, but how we wear it, and that she speaks the undergarments is what makes her so brilliant because the audience won't see that, but it affects and helps and enhances our characterization. Um, so for me, it's how that uniform is is felt, how it's worn. And one of the things she did from a practical standpoint was make the material lighter than it really would have been.

We would have been sweating like pigs up on stage otherwise. But it looks the same to the audience, but it helps us feel comfort. Um, and I say that because even from a characterization standpoint, my father is a retired army colonel of 28 years. I grew up in an army base. I grew up watching my father as a military man. So I watched the man within the uniform. And oftentimes, you know, and portrayals, acting anything, people play for results, you know, to play smart, to play a police officer, to play a military man. Um, and it wasn't about playing that military man. In this case, it wasn't about playing the uniform. It was about becoming that character that wears the uniform. So then therefore it becomes about comfort.

How you wear it. You know, there's certain very standard, very specific ways you must button and you know, the length and all that, and all of that, but how it fits on your body and how your spirit and your character comes from within that uniform makes the character.

[9:42] Dede Ayite: So great that you talked about the fabric choice with these uniforms. And we thanked her for that, trust me.

[9:49] Blair Underwood: Yeah.

[9:49] Blair Underwood: And what that would mean, because I mean, um, I know Dede, like with all of the research that you did, it was like what then will portray the weight of that fabric and also give the actor what they need. So I know that like took some time, and I'm sure that maybe like Ilya's here that can talk to that a little bit more about like what that meant to change um the fabric of a uniform um to make sure and and also to make sure that it still looks appropriate for that piece.

[10:20] Ilya Fatakhov: It's uh we add a lot of handwork on this uniform. It's uh and we we add some unique details and uh special canneries to make those uniforms uh make made look that way, like for the uh for uh actors to use to use them like uh like you said, like a comfort on a stage.

[10:43] Dede Ayite: I remember too, Ilya, right the like just identifying the fabric because I know I had my associate on this, we swatched a ton and so it was working with Ilia to find out to make sure and sure that whatever wool we went with wasn't too soft otherwise it would be a bit too drapey so it still had to have some body to it so that I could get the crease in the pan I could get the jacket to lay right also because of um for the actors to be comfortable we didn't want them to sweat in so we didn't want to do a fully lined um suit jacket and pan and so the pants were half lined I believe and then the jacket also um half lined.

[11:18] Ilya Fatakhov: You see, you see, you see the jacket you you see the jackets it's a we did a lot of beautiful jackets and I did one extra for the shop.

[11:26] Devario D. Simmons: Wow, it's just behind here.

[11:28] Ilya Fatakhov: Nice yeah.

[11:30] Dede Ayite: See, Dede, your costume is so amazing each one of us got a piece of it we had to take home with us.

[11:36] Devario D. Simmons: I mean, so Dede, what um, what made you recreate these costumes um for the stage instead of like maybe looking for already made pieces?

[11:36] Dede Ayite: We actually did both so I actually we shopped some we shopped some pieces because you know budget of money for sure so we shopped some pieces and we also um thankfully we're able to have Ilya custom build a few pieces for us. So with that it's as a costume designer it's finding a balance it's trying to recreate things in a way or if even if I'm shopping the things is identifying what things need to be altered and if it's worth it to actually alter it to get the right fit I want. So we, for some of the uniforms that we use, they were shopped outright, and then we did massive alterations on those. Ilya and Anthony Giuliberto worked on that just to get the tailoring and fit just right for us. And then with others, such as Blair's uniform, it felt it felt necessary to custom build it for for his character and for him, just because of Davenport is someone who has access to money and has status and he cares about the way he looks, especially entering an environment where he knows it's a racist environment.

So he has to present himself in a specific way as a black man. And even today, he understands that he cannot, he has to be, like I said, he has to be super specific about how he enters any space, right? People are looking for him to fault to fault him. And so with that, it felt that I had to hit it on the money in terms of the tailoring. I had to hit it on the money in terms of like the lines on the uniform, how sharp the uniform would lay on his body. So there is identifying what the silhouette of the time period is and of the actual uniform, but then it's also translating that onto an actual human being's body and accommodating what they look like and their body type and sort of bringing all those worlds together.

So with Blair's uniform, I believe actually in one fitting, we played around with the proportions of the jacket, and I gave him a bit more of a curve in the waist. And I remember Blair said to me, like, Oh, how did you see that? And I was like, you just gotta stare at it. I'm like, I'm seeing you that have to really look at you hard because you're gonna be wearing this um uniform on stage and you're embodying this character. So I have to pull forth whatever I need to to like give you the foundation to take it and lift it off. And Blair wears it, he knows how to wear a uniform, I have to say, like Blair's on. Like, there are certain people who just know how to wear clothes, and thankfully Blair's one, and so he just sort of got into that uniform, and then Ilya did like creative magic on there, right?

He did all like the little bit of alteration here and there, just so it fit ever so perfectly. So when his character walks out on stage that very first moment, without him even saying anything, in like Blair's posture and gesture, we already get a sense of who he is. And that's like a very sort of special moment, at least for me.

[14:31] Blair Underwood: Yeah, you know, it's uh helpful for me too in that first the introduction to the character to see to see the character transition and evolve right before your eyes because it opens up with a monologue.

[14:44] Blair Underwood: And again, with the uniform, I didn't want to play the uniform, so I wanted to kind of disrobe a little bit and start with the jacket over my arm. And I saw in my mind's eye, I saw my dad at a barbecue in his uniform after a long day's work smoking a cigarette. He didn't smoke a cigarette, but I saw, but just chilling, you know, it had kind of cocked back somewhat. But as he could, as Davenport continues with the monologue, you see him transform, buttons his jacket by using the costume you see him transform into Richard Davenport, Captain Davenport, and how he presents himself in the very first scene with Jerry O'Connell's character.

[15:21] Dede Ayite: Did you? I was actually gonna ask you a little bit more about the personalization of these characters because I heard a little story about the dog tags. Um, and Blair was just talking about how even the transformation of him on stage was very important. Why were the specifics of those dog tags so important for you in helping and in asking the actors what they thought their character would be?

[15:44] Dede Ayite: When I'm in a fitting room for me, it's a uh working with the actor, it's a very it's uh very much sort of a collaborative process. So it's important for me to to help them in whatever way I can, right? To give them another portal into who the character is, another way, another sort of way into what they're thinking and feeling about the character. So with the dog tags, I allowed that we already knew what the last name of or the name of the character was, but then I need to know a birth date. And so with that, and through information from the script, the character uh the actor and I are able to deduce a birth date and we're able to identify. Oh, actually, they are. They're able to identify the um religious affiliation of that character, and it just allows the actor to just take it a step further to really personalize the story for themselves and to consider all the different elements and all the different pieces that make up this character. Um, I hope that it's a way just to give them another sort of bit of information so they can dive even deeper into their characters.

[16:47] Dede Ayite: The Costume Industry Coalition was launched to advocate for the survival of New York City's custom costume industry. Collectively, CIC members employ hundreds of artisans and costuming experts. Their costumes are seen on stages and screen worldwide. To learn more about CIC and how you can get involved or make a tax deductible donation, please visit www.costumeindustrycoalition.com. In these trying times, many are not in the position to give. But you can always help by spreading the word.

[17:26] Devario D. Simmons: Um go to Ilya and talk about the amazing tailoring of this jacket. Ilya, how long have you been? How long have you been in New York?

[17:31] Ilya Fatakhov: 27 years.

[17:35] Devario D. Simmons: 27 years, my goodness. How long have you been tailoring?

[17:38] Ilya Fatakhov: Uh over 34 years.

[17:40] Devario D. Simmons: What got you into the business of tailoring?

[17:44] Ilya Fatakhov: You know, like it's uh like I never was dreaming, be honest with you. I used to dreaming to be a musician. I used to write my own music. Oh wow. Since since uh 12, I used to write music, and then uh I moved to a different city. My sister got married uh to a party maker. He was a professional designer party making, and uh he started teaching me how to sew when I was 14 years old. Since 14, I started loving and doing this profession.

[18:12] Devario D. Simmons: Wow, so you've been sewing tailoring since you were 14.

[18:15] Ilya Fatakhov: Yep.

[18:16] Devario D. Simmons: And in New York for 27 years. My goodness.

[18:19] Ilya Fatakhov: 27 years in New York City and 21 years in business in at Arel Studio.

[18:24] Devario D. Simmons: So great. Um, what is your favorite process? What is your favorite part about the process of making theatrical costumes?

[18:30] Ilya Fatakhov: Oh, favorite part to look in a sketch and go through the details with the beautiful designers. And so we have uh unique and beautiful average designers on our Broadway shows. Yeah. And uh unfortunately, right now with COVID, we don't have this chance choice anymore.

[18:48] Devario D. Simmons: Like, yeah, um, is your studio doing any production right now at all? Are they are you are you still open to do are you still opening and and working at all at any capacity right now?

[18:58] Ilya Fatakhov: We was open even during the COVID. We was uh making some uh masks okay and uh helping our city and right now we do a lot of orders uh like uh for TV and movie and uh you know the most uh TV shows and movies. So right now, most of the things are TV shows and movies until theater comes back, hopefully, this fall. And we yeah, we got some project like a few days ago with Kathy Zuber. She's doing uh Moulin Rouge in uh Australia.

[19:28] Devario D. Simmons: In Australia, yes. Everybody's going to Australia.

[19:31] Ilya Fatakhov: Yes. It's not, you know, it's it's not like used to be on Broadway, but at least we got uh a lot of stuff, and it's a 10. Thank you for all of them who's trying to support us in this difficult time. And the Sarah Edwards, she's doing uh her TV show and uh many other different designers, so like it's uh trying to keep us busy.

[19:54] Devario D. Simmons: I know your studio is a part of the Costume Industry Coalition, um which was formed during COVID. What does it what does that what does that coalition mean for you?

[20:04] Ilya Fatakhov: Coalition means like uh all the costume makers and uh all the people we like basically collaborating together and working to survive and uh to be you know to helping each other to stay in business in this hard time.

[20:19] Devario D. Simmons: Because there's been no relief at all for you all, right?

[20:22] Ilya Fatakhov: No, for our we are in the worst situation, I would say. But uh unfortunately we don't have any relief yet. We have beautiful, many shops on Broadway. It's and all of them, it's uh unique and uh professional, and I hope everybody's gonna be staying in business and continue their beautiful work on Broadway for beautiful stuff for stage and Broadway and TV and all other industry.

[20:49] Devario D. Simmons: Yeah, speaking of going back to the stage, I want to congratulate Dede and Mr. Blair Underwood on their Tony nominations for A Soldier's Play. Um Blair, were you were you on Broadway before this in any capacity?

[21:02] Blair Underwood: Thank you, Devario. Uh yeah, the last time was 2012. We did A Streetcar Named Desire.

[21:08] Dede Ayite: Yes, yes, yes.

[21:10] Blair Underwood: So good.

[21:10] Devario D. Simmons: And Dede, you're actually double nominated this season. So your chances are high, you're gonna beat out everyone.

[21:16] Dede Ayite: I don't know.

[21:20] Dede Ayite: But it's okay. I'm like, it's all right. I'm grateful. Let's keep doing the work, you know.

[21:26] Blair Underwood: Sounds like champagne problems.

[21:28] Dede Ayite: I know, right? I'll take it.

[21:31] Devario D. Simmons: Ilya, how does it feel to have some of your garments be nominated for a Tony this year?

[21:36] Ilya Fatakhov: The person wearing it, the person designing it. Yes, like I said from the beginning, it's an honor to be here with all of you. And uh thank you very much for all of you like doing the all means process and uh we're all happy for all of you.

[21:51] Devario D. Simmons: Well, we feel the same way, Ilya. Thank you. Thank you. And I hope we're gonna continue. We're gonna continue yet more and more. More of this. Not lost, like it should be like keep going for all of you.

[22:02] Dede Ayite: That's right.

[22:03] Devario D. Simmons: Yeah. I want to talk to you, Dede, just about the CIC also. Um, as a costume designer, you've also been hit with in a way, no work as industry has been shut down. Um, what does the CIC mean for you as a person who uses these vendors?

[22:20] Dede Ayite: I'm I'm so afraid that when things start to come back, there'll be many who wouldn't who won't be there. And to think that there are people who spend their entire lives building up their businesses. Um, there are people who are just starting their businesses, um, who unfortunately got hit by COVID. It's it's a it's a huge disaster for us. And as artists, um, I'm just so I'm afraid because you don't want to lose um those artisans. You don't want to lose those people who dedicate their entire lives to like learn how to put garments together by hand or by like, or or how to distress things in a way that just in a way that's even it feels poetic. And there's so many craftspeople and artisans that work like or that are that make up the CIC that I'm just hoping that we can weather this.

I'm hoping that some relief will come so that when we finally get back to like creating and telling stories that we can all then come back together as a community and keep going. But I'm really, really scared that some people might not just be able to make it out of this sort of disaster, this pandemic that we're all going through.

[23:28] Blair Underwood: And that's troubling because it's what brings, you know, it's what brings tourism to New York City. It's what it's what um helps us put shows on stage on Broadway, off Broadway, even regionally, like all over the world. These are artisans that we rely on to do the work. And um, I would hate to have them sort of like fade away or disappear and be lost a fast fashion. Um, just to think of like someone's entire life be gone in a second because um there's no sort of support there, there's nothing to catch them as they're falling is is quite sad.

[24:01] Devario D. Simmons: Blair, we all know you also from this the silver screen on television and film. What what is it what what's different about a fitting for theater? Like, is are they the same? Are they different?

[24:17] Blair Underwood: I you know, I don't know if it's that that different. I think it's just the personnel. I mean, everything that you were both saying, Ilya and Didi, there's uh there's a culture to Broadway, theater. But Broadway is very specific. Um, there's an energy. Um, the stakes are higher in every way, financially, artistically, creatively. Um, so it's a different energy. I remember when I first came in to meet Ilya, and and Didi uh was telling me he's so great and he works so fast, and he's so brilliant, and and then working with with Didi's um expertise itself. It's it's you know, we're very similar in a lot of ways, of course, but it's a different cultural dynamic um doing and working in the theater. And part of it is just the lives we live, the livelihood, the the rhythm of life is is very unique.

[25:06] Dede Ayite: Oh, can I just jump in and say though, and there's nothing like having Blair walk out in act two with the audience giving him feedback, so you will not get that in TV.

[25:18] Blair Underwood: That energy from the audience, you know that's a very good point.

[25:24] Dede Ayite: Tell me about this costume, describe this act two.

[25:27] Blair Underwood: That was not even that was I I gave the foundation and Blair and Kenny, you know, dreamt of something special. What was this moment? There are three uh monologues that Richard Davenport does. The beginning of the first act, beginning of the second act, and the end of the play. And the beginning of the second act, it says that he's getting dressed. That's all it says. He's getting dressed. So I'm learning this long monologue. I'm thinking about my lines, and I think I'm unbuttoning maybe two buttons. I just want to let me do the last two that I can tie my tie with no mirrors, so you don't try and do all that. And I'm thinking about all that. And Kenny, like the last week before we moved to this theater, he said, maybe you should just unbutton a few more buttons. Maybe someone in the audience might appreciate that. And I was like, come on, man. Really? He said, Yeah, yeah, just try it. So so that became whatever that moment is Dede's referring to.

[26:16] Dede Ayite: Oh, got it. Understood.

[26:20] Blair Underwood: Power of live theater.

[26:22] Dede Ayite: Yes, we love that.

[26:24] Blair Underwood: The appreciation from the audience is always appreciated from how to do it.

[26:28] Dede Ayite: Always appreciate it.

[26:29] Devario D. Simmons: I want to thank you all three for coming to be with me today for Into Costume. You know, we just want to make sure to reach out to everyone to make sure that we're all here actors, designers, and those in the shops, so that we all kind of be able to be noticed. I mean, I think a lot of the times the people that are working behind the scenes um don't get noticed. And so we we love this opportunity to give Ilya and his shop that moment to know how much work is put into bringing things to the stage. Um and in closing, I just want to thank you all again for being with me. No, it's just so good to see all your faces. And I'm really happy that we there's a moment to connect with like with Blair and with Ilya.

Because and I will say, listen, Ilya's shop and Val, I love them. It's it's an honor to work with them. They're true masters at what they do, and there's a lot of collaboration there. I come up with an idea and they allow and help me actually take it that much further, right? And so that uh is something that I'm truly appreciative of. Like just their knowledge of fabric and and the care that goes into how they construct the individual pieces is um is truly like it's truly something special. So thank you, Ilya, and thank you, Val.

[27:48] Ilya Fatakhov: Thank you to your thank you, thank you, and thank you, all of you, thank you for everything.

[27:52] Blair Underwood: Yeah, and I'll just say it's great to see you again, Ilya and Didi. Always great to see you. Hope to do it again in the future in New York City. Um, and Devario, I just want to say to you and and all of your team, just thank you for creating this platform because, you know, whether it's theater, Broadway, Hollywood, movies, television, show business is a collaborative effort. And, you know, often oftentimes it's only the actors that get the spotlight and the shine, but none of it happens without the team. And it's a huge team effort. So thank you for creating this platform so we could put extra shine on Didi and Ilya.

[28:22] Devario D. Simmons: This has been Into Costume. Thanks to the Broadway Podcast Network for their support. If you have any feedback on today's episode, find us on our Twitter handle at Into Costume. We'd love to hear from you. If you'd like to learn more about the Costume Industry Coalition, please visit their website at costumeindustrycoalition.com. Remember to subscribe and rate on whatever platform you're using. And join us again next time for more stories to get you into costume. Thanks for listening.