This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jimi: I'm so curious with all of these like social media fame, whether it's Instagram or YouTube, like what's gonna happen when we all become geriatrics?

[0:09] Tommy: Like I know when you know there are are there gonna be retiree YouTubers or exactly the YouTuber home?

[0:18] Jimi: Do you know what I mean?

[0:19] Tommy: Tyler Oakley just gonna YouTube till his hair goes actually silver.

[0:23] Jimi: I think so.

[0:24] Tommy: He just celebrated his tenth anniversary.

[0:26] Jimi: Oh man.

[0:28] Tommy: It's an emotional video.

[0:30] Jimi: I'm sure.

[0:33] Tommy: I love it.

[0:33] Jimi: He listens, you know.

[0:36] Tommy: Hi, Tyler.

[0:37] Jimi: Um I think your sped up witches rap video uh was where you peaked.

[0:43] Tommy: I think that might have been in year two or three.

[0:46] Jimi: Um one of my favorites.

[0:48] Tommy: My I think my favorite was a really early one as well, and it was um him talking about a one night stand, and it's not on YouTube anymore because of you know branding and stuff.

[1:00] Jimi: He's really gone down h downhill with his wholesome, you know, remote.

[1:06] Tommy: Ugh the those were the days.

[1:09] Jimi: Gay one night stand, that's what I want.

[1:11] Tommy: We had to walk uphill both ways to get our YouTubes.

[1:16] Jimi: Somebody get us another drink!

[1:17] Tommy: Welcome to Jim and Tomic's musical theater happy hour.

[1:21] Jimi: Your weekly podcast with tonic and tableau.

[1:25] Tommy: Ooh.

[1:26] Jimi: That is the AUX forum.

[1:27] Tommy: That is the plural.

[1:29] Jimi: Um it's hard to hard to tell.

[1:31] Tommy: Is the A U X is the plural?

[1:33] Jimi: Is multiple tab table tableau?

[1:36] Tommy: Are they both pronounced the same?

[1:38] Jimi: What's this is the singular is also tableau, but without the X?

[1:41] Tommy: It's just without the X, yep.

[1:42] Jimi: Think of gatto or um Chateau.

[1:48] Tommy: Okay.

[1:49] Jimi: Chateau X.

[1:50] Tommy: Multiple if you have multiple chateaus.

[1:52] Jimi: Chat Ox.

[1:54] Tommy: Um Yeah, so Tableau.

[1:56] Jimi: Chat Chat Ox is my favorite drag queen.

[1:59] Tommy: Um Chat Ox.

[2:01] Jimi: You could be good.

[2:01] Tommy: Um Tableau is probably one of the first uh drama terms I ever learned.

[2:08] Jimi: And I did not know what it meant.

[2:10] Tommy: It's a good one.

[2:11] Jimi: That's very it's that would be in my nonverbals unit if I was still teaching acting, which is like unit one or two.

[2:17] Tommy: Mm-hmm.

[2:17] Jimi: Stage one.

[2:18] Tommy: Well, I thought I thought it meant um because we did it the first time we did a tableau, we kind of did it in like a carousel form.

[2:27] Jimi: So like there were a number of tableau uh-huh, and we went round them.

[2:31] Tommy: Like, and I thought that's what it always had to be.

[2:34] Jimi: Ah.

[2:34] Tommy: So if anyone ever said tableau, I expected there to be like, you know, five other people in a circle around me.

[2:43] Jimi: Like a really specific contrived picture device.

[2:47] Tommy: But you know.

[2:49] Jimi: You learn.

[2:50] Tommy: Yep.

[2:51] Jimi: Um, so hey, hear that?

[2:53] Tommy: I do.

[2:54] Jimi: What you drinking?

[2:56] Tommy: It didn't sound like water.

[2:59] Jimi: Wait, is that water you're drinking?

[3:00] Tommy: Are you gonna turn it into wine?

[3:03] Jimi: Oh my gosh.

[3:05] Tommy: Stop it.

[3:06] Jimi: Yes.

[3:07] Tommy: Watch.

[3:08] Jimi: Are you ready?

[3:08] Tommy: I'm ready.

[3:09] Jimi: This this visual trick is great for our audio pot.

[3:12] Tommy: Wow, that's amazing.

[3:14] Jimi: It's why how did you do that?

[3:17] Tommy: I can't give away my secret.

[3:19] Jimi: Me, I'm drinking uh like one fish, but it's actually like 5,000.

[3:25] Tommy: Oh, okay.

[3:26] Jimi: Like you drink a fish.

[3:29] Tommy: You could you could drink a fish.

[3:32] Jimi: If it was like, you know, like blended up.

[3:35] Tommy: Gross.

[3:35] Jimi: I'm getting sick of thinking about it.

[3:37] Tommy: Wait, there are there any like fish milkshakes or like fish like like fish drinks?

[3:42] Jimi: This is disgusting.

[3:43] Tommy: I feel like that's a thing.

[3:44] Jimi: That surely has to be a thing.

[3:46] Tommy: Absolutely disgusting.

[3:48] Jimi: You you drink the juice from a like a prawn or a what do you call them?

[3:53] Tommy: Uh prawn we would call yeah, but I don't think that's a thing we do in America.

[3:57] Jimi: You do, you do it in New Orleans.

[3:59] Tommy: You like drink out the juice, the pretty juice.

[4:01] Jimi: We don't have fish.

[4:02] Tommy: There are no oceans here.

[4:03] Jimi: There are no oceans in New York.

[4:06] Tommy: Oh, I did a really successful pub quiz.

[4:09] Jimi: Yeah.

[4:10] Tommy: Uh the day, and I used a couple of questions from the podcast.

[4:12] Jimi: So just goes to show how many people who were attending it listened to the podcast.

[4:16] Tommy: That's awesome.

[4:17] Jimi: I know.

[4:18] Tommy: Um I have a quiz question.

[4:22] Jimi: Hey, that wasn't the segue I was going for, but yeah, okay.

[4:27] Tommy: You ready?

[4:28] Jimi: Surprise segue.

[4:29] Tommy: I'm so ready.

[4:30] Tommy: Some people argue that this musical we're talking about today features the music of Felix Mendelssohn and his violin concerto in E minor.

[4:38] Jimi: Mendelssohn remains uncredited to this day.

[4:42] Tommy: What show?

[4:42] Jimi: What show are we talking about, Jimmy?

[4:44] Tommy: I don't know what it could be.

[4:50] Jimi: Am I singing Mendelssohn or am I saying Andrew Lloyd Webber's Jesus Christ Superstar?

[5:00] Tommy: My mind is clever now.

[5:04] Jimi: At last all too well.

[5:08] Tommy: I can see where we are soon will be.

[5:18] Jimi: The myth from the man.

[5:22] Tommy: You will see where we are soon will be.

[5:29] Jimi: Jesus!

[5:33] Tommy: You started to believe the things they say of you.

[5:36] Jimi: You really do believe this talk of God is true.

[5:43] Tommy: And all that you've done will soon get swept away.

[5:47] Jimi: You've begun to matter more than the things you said.

[6:02] Tommy: Look at this go.

[6:03] Jimi: A musical joke.

[6:05] Tommy: Also, I've been watching community a lot.

[6:07] Jimi: Yeah.

[6:07] Tommy: Well, I say a lot.

[6:08] Tommy: I've been watched all six seasons in about a week.

[6:11] Jimi: Um, so I'm now constantly acting like Dean Pelton.

[6:15] Tommy: So I do apologize.

[6:17] Jimi: That's a good a good choice, I think.

[6:18] Tommy: I think it's a very choice, and you should lean into it.

[6:21] Jimi: I should dean into it.

[6:24] Tommy: Get out of here.

[6:25] Jimi: Done.

[6:25] Tommy: Um hanging up on the Skype call.

[6:29] Jimi: Do you ever do that though?

[6:30] Tommy: Do you ever like watch and then like start like I don't know, like visual empathy or something?

[6:35] Jimi: Where you start imitating a fictional.

[6:37] Tommy: Basically, yeah from uh from the thing you're watching.

[6:39] Jimi: I get made fun of.

[6:40] Tommy: Um my boyfriend makes fun of me every time every once in a while I turn into Rob Lowe from uh community.

[6:47] Jimi: No, Parks and Rec.

[6:48] Tommy: Um literally it is sometimes a little overwhelming how often I fall into this trap.

[6:56] Jimi: You really do.

[6:57] Tommy: By the way, I'm sure your boyfriend is very happy if you turn into Rob Lowe every once in a while.

[7:01] Jimi: Hey, you know, it's if you know what I mean, it's unexpected though, sometimes, and it's just a little scary because he's like, Who's this stranger in our house?

[7:08] Tommy: And I go, Oh, sorry, I Roblo temporarily.

[7:11] Jimi: Roblo can walk into my house any day.

[7:14] Tommy: Anyway, this is weird.

[7:16] Jimi: Um, so yes, we're talking about Jesus Christ Superstar.

[7:20] Tommy: Hooray.

[7:21] Jimi: Um, with of course the music by Andrew Lloyd Webber and the lyrics by Mr.

[7:25] Tommy: Tim Rice.

[7:26] Jimi: Tim Rice again, Tommy.

[7:28] Tommy: Why are we doing this?

[7:29] Jimi: Um why why must you put me through this?

[7:35] Tommy: We have done uh we'll get into it.

[7:37] Jimi: Um Jesus Christ Superstar opened up Broadway in 1971, starring Ben Vereen, but it didn't it have a um concept album before that that made it.

[7:46] Tommy: Yeah, so it just it originally um was a just a concept album um with Ian Gillen from Deep Purple.

[7:54] Jimi: Um and yeah, that was how it was just kind of originally to be, and then it got stuck on the stage um and kind of existed from there.

[8:06] Tommy: Yeah.

[8:06] Jimi: Um but I think the the concert album it was really successful.

[8:10] Tommy: It was super successful.

[8:11] Jimi: It like Billboard Top 100, blah blah blah.

[8:13] Tommy: Like it's the I mean uh Lloyd Webber talks about it being one of the reasons why the show was able to get produced.

[8:20] Jimi: Um because it felt kind of daring and dangerous, um, and the popularity of the album made it more comfortable to actually put it in a theater.

[8:29] Tommy: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[8:31] Jimi: And as well, like at this stage, this is early ALW, so I think he was only 21 when he composed it.

[8:37] Tommy: Um it only really done Joseph before, which was you know a show for school, so it wasn't like oh you're a Broadway vet off you pop.

[8:46] Jimi: So it was, you know, they they took a risk.

[8:49] Tommy: Um and it eventually paid off, maybe a question mark, maybe um and then it came over here very, very quickly, um opened it the palace in 1972.

[9:02] Jimi: Um and it's had like a couple of revivals along the way across the pond here.

[9:07] Tommy: Um it's currently revived uh in our old favorite Regents Park Open Air Theatre.

[9:15] Jimi: Yeah.

[9:16] Tommy: Um where you can go see it right now, I think.

[9:17] Jimi: I don't know if it's still open.

[9:19] Tommy: Um and I think there's a there's a film from the 70s, um, which is very 70s, and then there's like a made for TV-ish film.

[9:28] Jimi: Kind of like yeah, like a PBS special, that kind of thing.

[9:31] Tommy: Um of the 2000s production that toured.

[9:36] Jimi: Yeah, and so it's it feels it feels very backstreet boys in early 2000s, which you know we may look back on in another 40 years and feel like how I feel about the 70s.

[9:49] Tommy: Yeah.

[9:50] Jimi: Yeah, that's fair.

[9:52] Tommy: Um, but it does have Tony Vincent in it.

[9:54] Jimi: This is true.

[9:55] Tommy: And he has frosted tips, and I am all about that.

[9:59] Jimi: I think he's incredible.

[10:00] Tommy: Um, so what what is Jesus Christ Superstar?

[10:03] Jimi: Or should I be asking you, or should I feel this one because you just like vomit or something?

[10:08] Tommy: Jesus Christ Superstar is a musical retelling of the Passion of the Christ.

[10:13] Jimi: It is, it is.

[10:15] Tommy: Um I'm not I'm just gonna I'm gonna ignore it and it'll go away.

[10:20] Jimi: It is, and it's uh very much uh taking into account sort of Jesus uh as a human um and uh how Judas plays into the story.

[10:31] Tommy: So it's less um from a biblical perspective, yeah, and more of a kind of allegorical human perspective.

[10:39] Jimi: Yeah, definitely a deep dive into the character of Judas, more so than I think a lot of adaptations that go this route.

[10:49] Tommy: Um yeah.

[10:50] Jimi: Yeah, there's uh more so than anything.

[10:52] Tommy: And it's a it's a it's a rock concert.

[10:54] Jimi: It's it's uh it's a rock, you know, concept album, and there is this play on Jesus being a superstar, and how you know the the like um metaphor of him being a rock star and how that plays into maybe his fame is working against his mission of spreading peace and love.

[11:18] Tommy: Um kind of it's definitely about kind of the fame monster and how that eats away at you, yeah.

[11:24] Jimi: Um, which is very topical for for the 70s, you know, because we're really starting getting into rock stars becoming a thing.

[11:31] Tommy: Yeah, and then there's a huge juxtaposition of that kind of rock star persona onto this very traditional biblical story, which I think that's one of the big struggles between all productions of this is which way do you lean?

[11:46] Jimi: More in the biblical sense or more in the rock star sense.

[11:50] Tommy: Yeah, I'm sure we'll talk about it.

[11:52] Jimi: Oh, we will, we will.

[11:54] Tommy: Um shall we dive right on in?

[11:56] Jimi: Let's go.

[11:57] Tommy: Cause splash try not to get worried, try not to turn on to problems that upset you all.

[12:10] Jimi: Don't you know everything's all right?

[12:14] Tommy: Yes, everything's fine, and we want you to sleep well tonight.

[12:20] Jimi: Let the world turn without you tonight.

[12:25] Tommy: If we try, we'll get by, so forgive all about us tonight.

[12:37] Jimi: Come you and I'm chewing for your hot form.

[12:43] Tommy: Then you feel everything song like yes, every slide.

[12:48] Jimi: And it's cool on the sweet.

[12:57] Tommy: Close your eyes, close your eyes and relax.

[13:01] Jimi: Think of nothing tonight.

[13:05] Tommy: Well, I think let's get it right either way at the start.

[13:07] Jimi: Y'all get more in.

[13:12] Tommy: It's not my least favorite Andrew Lloyd Webber.

[13:15] Jimi: Um I know.

[13:19] Tommy: Shocking.

[13:20] Jimi: Um I find it's Jesus Christ Superstar.

[13:25] Tommy: I listened to very early on.

[13:26] Jimi: Like the I remember taking this out of my local library when I was like, musicals are a thing.

[13:30] Tommy: I'm gonna take out 20 CDs right now.

[13:32] Jimi: Um, and it just it kind of existed in that you know blob of musical theater for me for a while and never really stuck out.

[13:40] Tommy: Um I think, and you know.

[13:45] Jimi: My biases are showing, but I think Jesus stories are lazy.

[13:49] Tommy: I think Jesus adaptations are lazy.

[13:51] Jimi: I think this story shows Andrew Lloyd Webber's laziness, especially early on, especially coming right after another biblical story, Joseph.

[14:01] Tommy: Um you're taking a story, you're not you're not spending time on the story because it already exists, and you're what I was going to say is you're not putting your own personal spin on it.

[14:15] Jimi: I think Jesus Christ Superstar does a better job of putting your own personal spin on it than something like Joseph does, which is Joseph is pretty much a straight retelling with just contemporary musical theater songs.

[14:25] Tommy: Contemporary for the time.

[14:28] Jimi: Whereas Jesus Christ Superstar has, you know, it was controversial enough to make people want to protest it, which means it's doing something against the normal story, but I also think people just like to protest things.

[14:42] Tommy: Um, but I think especially Jesus Passion stories are kind of lazy, and it's always it's bugged me since Catholic school how um non-climactic the passion story is. Not that there's not like a, you know, peak to the story, but it's not A to B to C to D to E when you follow it. Like all parables are, like all biblical stories are. Like it's like, and then he, you know, went into the temple square and overturned a bunch of tables, and then they went and ate dinner, and like there's not, you know, more contemporary stories have more purpose, and I think one of the key questions with any piece of theater, with any story is like why this story, why now, why tell it, what's the point? And with Jesus stories, the reason you tell it is because it's a Jesus story, which is, you know, circular logic and bugs me and bothers me, and then attach Andrew Lloyd Webber to it, and not my favorite.

[15:46] Jimi: Okay. Cool. Thanks for that, sorry. Um, this is where I disagree with everything you just said. The classic, the classic Andrew Lloyd Webber format. Well, what I would first of all say um is I think he was actually asked to do it on the back of Joseph. Okay. It wasn't like, you know, his pardon the pardon passion project that you want to do. But yeah, it was someone I think from the church thought it would be a really really good idea to do a musical theatre retelling of the passion. Specifically the passion, because obviously we have had God's spell, um, which is very much just a kind of play by play of the passion. Do you know what I mean?

[16:30] Tommy: In terms of its second act, yes, in terms of its second act. I mean, this is more of a play by play than God's spell is. Um, well, see, this is where I would disagree with you because what where you're saying about um the passion story being the thing that everyone talks about, and I I would actually agree with that. I think you you see it everywhere because it's it's such a it's one of those epigenetic stories that yeah we all know about. Um, but what I would say is no one's actually ever told the story from a human perspective. Do you know what I mean? Which is what Andrew Lloyd Webber does, and uh I think does it extremely well. Um, and no one really looks at it from Judas's perspective um and you know, makes Judas a really really sympathetic character.

Yes, that is a risky thing to do. Yes, um, especially in the 70s, kind of because what we were getting there, um, with the kind of rise of the hippie generation and the counterculture starting to really creep in, um, people were starting to question things a lot more. So this was very much on the on the fringe, yeah.

[17:41] Jimi: Um, I feel like I don't know, and I feel like he does it really, really well, and I don't think this is a story that's been told before, and a story that has been told since necessarily. Like there's a play I've I know that's really really good called The Last Days of Judas Iscariot, um, which again is kind of the the passion or the you know the end of Judas from Judas's perspective is Judas in Purgatory and kind of working through he's on trial, yeah. Um, but I don't think certainly musical theater um anyone's ever told this story. So I do disagree that it's lazy because I feel like what he's done is okay. I've got the passion. Well, how can I how can I tell this story and make it relevant, make it different.

[18:28] Tommy: Yeah. Um, so I think of all the Jesus adaptations, this is probably one of the least lazy. Yeah. I yes, I I agree with you. Um, which is weird because you disagree with me. So, you know, how does that um I think the most riveting part of the story is the Judas story. I think what bothers me is this is not it's not Judas the musical. Um, there are other parts we spend time on the other parts of the story without Judas present, which I think works counter to the intended if the intended purpose is tell the story of Judas Iscariot. Um, you know, which it it starts with him, like he's the narrator. We could have a discussion about who's the protagonist in the show, but I think there is justification that Judas could be it, um even though he the last quarter well, he does come back from the dead.

Um, so he's in it a lot, um, but we don't the whole show is not about how like the I if I were writing Judas Iscariot, the musical, Ala Jesus Christ Superstar, there are parts of this musical I would omit.

[19:44] Jimi: There are parts that I would skip over, like in Into the Woods when you skip over Jack seeing the giant in the sky. We know. We understand he gets 40 lashes, yes, it can happen off stage for 30 seconds. Um, you know, we spend a lot of time with like whether it's King Herod's song, which I love and would be ashamed to cut, but like, is not you know that this I think is why I agree with you and still don't like this show, because I s I I feel the other parts of this show strongly, and it seems scattershot and not as riveting and concise as the Judas Iscariot through line. Um, which, you know, bothers me is too strong of a word, but it it makes it feel messy.

[20:30] Tommy: Right, okay. That's in because again, I I would say I think that what Judas and Jesus are um is their fantastic kind of polls. Um, because I would say you could easily argue that they're both protagonists in the story. That's true. Because they have their own fixed viewpoint and are going with it, um, and both are flawed, uh, and both have their own conclusion. Um, kind of what they do is they just run run alongside. Obviously, their stories intertwine, yeah, but they are actually kind of telling their own their own tale. Um, with Judas, obviously it's much more he's looking at it from um an almost political perspective that's Judas was in the Bible.

[21:12] Jimi: Right. Um, and with Jesus, it's him kind of trying to find the balance between having this popularity and dealing with the obligations that come with it, basically, and trying to keep a balance. Yeah. And the the kind of fight, you know, along along the way.

[21:33] Tommy: Yeah, I I I wish Jesus was more active in that fight. I wish Jesus matched Judas' activity in the musical. I think this is a trope a lot of Jesus' adaptations fall Jesus adaptations fall into. Um, is like Jesus becomes this mildly passive, all knowing, like, all will, you know, how dare you judge, lest you be judged, you know, I will Confucius say this proverb sort of thing. I and I think this comes to interpretation, and maybe is more based on the adaptations I've watched, but I would love to see the same struggle that Judas feels in Jesus. And the the problem is for Jesus, this is all set in stone. For the biblical character of Jesus, this must happen. I must die for your sins. From the moment this show begins, you know, he is established in that. And we do see some like, why must I die? Like some some exploration of that, but it's not like uh, you know, he's not contemplating making a run for it. Um, you know what I mean?

[22:47] Jimi: I think I think he he kind of is and he isn't, because if you think about the plagues after the temple, obviously goes into the temple, goes crazy, um not the plague, sorry, the the lepers. The lepers. That's a huge, that's a fall from grades for Jesus Christ, who is this kind of ethereal, you know, perfect man. So that's the first kind of tearing away of him. Yeah. And then you see the rest of his faults kind of reflected in someone like Mary Magdalene, where you know, she's like, I I don't I don't know how to love it. I don't know how to um to take him. I'm just quoting the song. Well done, Tim Rice. Very good, clearly. Um, but yeah, and she is able to provide another kind of look into his life. Yeah. Um, in the same way I would say that the Pharisees are able to give you another look into Judas' life. I don't know, I think it's expertly constructed.

[23:49] Tommy: Yeah. I think I wonder if I just haven't seen the adaptation that gets me yet. I I think that might be a little bit of it. Because I feel like you can't you can't listen to Gethsemane and not think, wow, he's really going through it. Like it's been written, it's been written as this huge rock ballad because it's this pure, it's just a five million question marks pouring it at once, and there's nothing else you can do but really just kind of scream in frustration. Um, it's I think it's an incredible song for that reason.

[24:20] Jimi: I think that's true. I think you're so you're convincing me. Um, I really love that I really love this show. Which I don't know. I think I really really love it. Yeah. Um, and I think I think a lot of it comes from your thing against Andrew Lloyd Webber. I think it's a for sure. I think it's I think it's a it's an unfortunate combo platter. It's my thing against Andrew Lloyd Webber and my being a gay kid in a Catholic school thing. Yeah, okay, interesting. Yeah, uh-huh. And that immediately colours my viewing of any kind of biblical adaptation. Right, okay. Because no, I I just think it is really, really strong, and I think there's lots in it to really look at and and question, especially nowadays. I think it's more relevant than ever. Um, I think anything that can stand that test of time, where something like Godspell almost almost doesn't as well, I would say.

[25:13] Tommy: I think there's a lot it's maybe just a bit too ambiguous, yeah, um and a bit too set in hippie culture. I would agree with that to um to stand the test of time, whereas you know, the Jesus produ uh JC productions that are on at the moment you're just like well, yeah, I I fully get this. No, it definitely for lots of reasons hit on something about you know whether it's the fame monster or the I think the whole superstar trope that makes it decisively more timeless than something like um Godspell or something like Hair, um, which is very rooted in the hippie counterculture movement generation.

[25:54] Jimi: Yeah. Um, so there we go. That's I'm just gonna take that as a win and we'll move on really, really quickly. Um, the Andrew Lloyd Webber plagiarizes songs and it pisses me off. He does, he does, but he was young, blessed. So what? Everyone does it, Tommy. No, everyone does it. Stephen Sondheim does not. He only played drivers off of himself, and that's fine. That's fine, but Stephen Sondheim's the best one. Yeah. And Andrew Lloyd Weber's map. No, we know. Anyway, that's not what we're arguing about here. We're discussing Jesus Christ Superstar. Um, but you almost made a good segment, and you've ruined it. Because we're talking about 70s for Netflix.

[26:34] Tommy: The 70s. Let's talk about the 70s. Our ideals die around us and all because of you. But that is cut over. Someone has to turn you in. Come on, Remindello. Like a wounded animal. David Mandumin. The dated mandarin. And like a tail in a faded, faded, dated dated Mandarin. Get out! They're waiting. Get out! They're waiting! No! They're waiting for you! Time I look at you on the scam. Why are you things you did get so out of hand? You would have managed better if you had a plan.

[27:35] Jimi: So you kinda hit on it earlier about the movie. I think it's a movie. Do you know what I mean? So I think first of all, listeners, watch them well, watch the movie if you want. Watch clips of the movie. Do not subject yourself to the entire 70s movie. Jimmy, I made my boyfriend watch this one again. The last musical movie he watched with me was Hair. Um and Godspell. He's done all of them now. He's literally, he's taked all those box plays. We finished it and he was like, I think I just don't like the 70s.

[28:06] Tommy: Yeah. But isn't it funny that I'm the complete opposite? Because like, I think I love it because it's so ridiculous and so strange. Oh, it's do you know what I mean it's so odd. Weird. Um, but there's I think of all of the for the three of them, let's call them the the triumvirate, the 70s triumph. The 70s, yeah. Um, I would say Jesus Christ Superstar is probably my least favorite of the movies. Yeah. Um just because I don't think it should be set in a desert. No, I think it's you know what I mean. I think that downplays. I think Jesus Christ Superstar of those three works the least best as a movie because it is about this fame and performance and concert and like you can't a layers removed when you make it a movie.

[28:49] Tommy: Yeah, exactly.

[28:50] Jimi: And I mean it is also the closest to being a regular book musical is is the any that you know is any of the others. Um so I would say in that respect, you kind of your instinct, your directorial instinct would be, oh well then it's if it's a book, then it has to have a narrative, so therefore we're kind of well, we'll set it in the time. And like, and Jesus should look like Jesus and we should be in the desert and exactly.

[29:16] Tommy: And sure you can kind of flash forward with um, you know, it's the song Superstar, and you're like, hey, it's contemporary again, but there's I don't know that it's just there's it was a weird, a weird blend.

[29:29] Jimi: A weird blend.

[29:30] Tommy: Yeah, it does feel before I do think Jesus Christ Superstar feels before it's time.

[29:35] Jimi: I think it it's grown into like it's certainly I don't think Jesus Christ Superstar could have happened outside of the 70s.

[29:43] Tommy: I think there's something very attached to this revolution of thought that we're feeling in the 70s that made it exist.

[29:53] Jimi: But I think the things it taps on are something that audiences in the 80s or absolutely the MTV generation of the 90s and the 2000s can attach themselves a little more to than the free love and peace of the 70s.

[30:11] Tommy: Yeah, I would I would I would agree.

[30:13] Jimi: It'd be strange.

[30:15] Tommy: Yeah, I can't actually imagine what it would look like.

[30:17] Jimi: And I think it's one of those things, like it needed to kind of be at the the birth of rock because it has a very pure, you know, that pure rock sound.

[30:27] Tommy: I feel like if it was made nowadays it would just be kind of flattened out a lot more.

[30:32] Jimi: Yeah, maybe.

[30:33] Tommy: But you do um I you do see this even in like the 2000 movie, there is something that kind of gets a little more into the like the traditional musical theater land, which I think makes it more accessible to contemporary audiences, but works against the core of it.

[30:54] Jimi: Of what it is.

[30:55] Tommy: Yeah, I would agree.

[30:56] Jimi: I would agree.

[30:57] Tommy: Um so yeah, I think if you're watching it, watch if you want a really good dose of like 70s, um, watch Simon the Zealot.

[31:07] Jimi: Yeah, his song, because that is crazy.

[31:12] Tommy: And and then and then watch King Herod's song.

[31:15] Jimi: And then watch King Herod, yes, exactly, for a bit of contextual synergies.

[31:19] Tommy: My boyfriend's jaw dropped and was like, what ha are we is this the same movie?

[31:23] Jimi: Nobody knows.

[31:25] Tommy: It's like out of nowhere.

[31:26] Jimi: That whole song's out of nowhere anyway.

[31:28] Tommy: But then in that movie, yeah.

[31:33] Jimi: Um, yeah, it's it's funny.

[31:35] Tommy: But um what it does feature is some very talented actors.

[31:40] Jimi: Yes.

[31:40] Tommy: Um, specifically Carl Anderson and Ted Neeley, who plays um Jesus, uh, and I think like in terms of portrayals, yeah, uh, probably the the best, I would say.

[31:57] Jimi: Yeah.

[31:58] Tommy: Um how many Jesus portrayals have you seen?

[32:01] Jimi: A lot.

[32:02] Tommy: I really, really like this show.

[32:04] Jimi: Oh, in this show, okay.

[32:06] Tommy: I thought you were saying one of the best portrayals of Jesus.

[32:09] Jimi: Oh, just Jesus Christ in general.

[32:12] Tommy: No.

[32:12] Jimi: Hey does the best Jesus I have ever seen.

[32:16] Tommy: It's just unbelievable.

[32:18] Jimi: Honestly, I believe he was in the room with me.

[32:20] Tommy: Um, and and Jesus Christ Superstar is one of the best Jesus.

[32:25] Jimi: Okay, yeah.

[32:27] Tommy: Because no, I have seen a lot, like we've got um uh like Glenn Carter, who was in the 2000s TV version, um is fine, but he's a bit I don't know, I find him odd.

[32:40] Jimi: Um, and then Ben Forster, who did the recent arena tour.

[32:46] Tommy: I really don't didn't take to actually really talk about that later.

[32:50] Jimi: Yeah, I really really didn't take to him.

[32:52] Tommy: Um but I think just be I again I think it comes from the 70s, it's it they know exactly what they're doing because it's it's there, it's how it's why I love the original hair more so than anything else that's ever come later because it's it's real, it's authentic, and there is just something that you can't capture nowadays that they had back then.

[33:11] Jimi: Yeah, yeah, that is true.

[33:13] Tommy: I mean, even the 70s movie for how ridiculous and strange it is to our contemporary eye, and I think even I read somewhere that Andrew Lloyd Webber did not like it.

[33:21] Jimi: Um, he didn't.

[33:22] Tommy: He didn't like the original production, didn't like the film.

[33:25] Jimi: Yeah, but there is I mean, you know, it feels like Burning Man.

[33:28] Tommy: You send a bunch of hippies out into the desert to like do their thing.

[33:32] Jimi: It's there's something very visceral about that.

[33:35] Tommy: Yeah.

[33:35] Jimi: And like where contemporary Burning Man is already kind of commercialized.

[33:39] Tommy: Um but in the 70s, you know, uh you're watching this movie and you kind of know that even these actors who to an extent are pretending to be actors because got in a bus and drove into the desert to do this Jesus thing.

[33:58] Jimi: And you know, the the realness of that is something that I I don't think we would be able to capture in 2017, even if we tried really hard.

[34:09] Tommy: Yeah, I would agree.

[34:10] Jimi: It would just need to be a different thing.

[34:11] Tommy: Which which they have done, and there are definitely really good productions that exist nowadays, but you couldn't do that authentic dusty 70s kind of thing.

[34:20] Jimi: Um they all look like honest people.

[34:22] Tommy: They do.

[34:23] Jimi: I just I love though that they just abandoned that whole we're actors thing.

[34:27] Tommy: It's so it's a weird let's get dressed up, and then we'll do the show and then we'll go again.

[34:33] Jimi: And it's just like why?

[34:35] Tommy: Why?

[34:36] Jimi: Like why didn't we was it because you wanted to feature the overture and needed something to do while the overture happened?

[34:43] Tommy: Right.

[34:43] Jimi: Exactly.

[34:44] Tommy: Why can't we just do like desert shots?

[34:46] Jimi: Or like I don't know.

[34:48] Tommy: Or just I don't know, do more of that weird dancing and just extend that for a little bit longer.

[34:52] Jimi: How about this?

[34:53] Tommy: Cut the overture.

[34:54] Jimi: Um, oh my god, I love this overture.

[34:59] Tommy: Oh, it's so that that guitar riff.

[35:01] Jimi: It pains it pains me.

[35:03] Tommy: It pains me to say how good it is, Jimmy.

[35:05] Jimi: It's so just see when you hear it, you're just like, yeah.

[35:08] Tommy: Well, and it's you're right in there.

[35:10] Jimi: It's biz it's bizarre.

[35:12] Tommy: Because they don't they don't call it an overture, don't they call it an opening too?

[35:15] Jimi: Um something like that, but pre-heaven on their minds.

[35:20] Tommy: Um it's you know, it's not a little bite-sized candy tray of all the songs you're going to hear featured throughout the musical that an overture would have been in the 50s and 60s.

[35:35] Jimi: Um it's bizarre and strange and atonable and rock.

[35:40] Tommy: Yeah, exactly.

[35:41] Jimi: And it again, it really it it sets you up for a strange evening.

[35:45] Tommy: Yeah.

[35:46] Jimi: Yeah.

[35:46] Tommy: Which I feel doesn't really get that strange until well, maybe it's all right at the end.

[35:50] Jimi: But do you know I I feel like the the overture, you make you think this is gonna be frenetic, it's gonna be crazy.

[35:56] Tommy: And then it kind of just goes normal for a lot of things.

[35:58] Jimi: Yeah, it's it's a pretty it's a linear story.

[36:00] Tommy: There are human being characters who say human being things, you know and the music is rocky, but it's not.

[36:08] Jimi: I mean the the only times we kind of like push the supernatural really is like Judas coming back to life.

[36:14] Tommy: Because we don't like Jesus dies and that's it.

[36:16] Jimi: We don't even do Easter.

[36:18] Tommy: Um yeah, it is as for as bizarre as the overture is, it you know, the musical is not.

[36:26] Jimi: No.

[36:27] Tommy: Um I do just before we move away from the 70s, I do just want to talk about Ben Vereen.

[36:32] Jimi: Because I've never had an opportunity to talk about Ben Vereen.

[36:34] Tommy: He's a magical human being.

[36:36] Jimi: Yeah, my like tagline on stuff is when I grow up, I want to be Ben Vereen.

[36:42] Tommy: And that's still true.

[36:44] Jimi: Yeah, that's still true.

[36:45] Tommy: I think I tweeted him.

[36:48] Jimi: Uh-huh.

[36:48] Tommy: Yeah.

[36:49] Jimi: I tweeted him a picture um of him.

[36:52] Tommy: Uh, I think he was doing this, which is you can see that pose, right?

[36:57] Jimi: Yes, but you should describe it to our audio listeners.

[37:00] Tommy: Um, like Ben a bit classic Ben Vereen.

[37:03] Jimi: Imagine Ben Vereen in a pose.

[37:05] Tommy: Is that um I'll put it on the show notes.

[37:07] Jimi: But he had claws coming out.

[37:09] Tommy: Uh-huh.

[37:10] Jimi: Um, and it was uh Ben Vereen like Wolverine kind of thing, and I tweeted him it, and I think he liked it.

[37:16] Tommy: So that was my life made.

[37:18] Jimi: That was my life made on that day.

[37:20] Tommy: When Ben Vereen likes your status, you know you've made it.

[37:23] Jimi: You're totally there.

[37:25] Tommy: Um, but no, so uh why are we talking about Ben Vereen?

[37:27] Jimi: Good question.

[37:28] Tommy: Basically, because he he originated the role of Judas on Broadway, but then he got ill.

[37:34] Jimi: Yeah so Carl Anderson kind of supplanted him, and then now nobody remembers Ben Vereen as Judas, and it's really sad.

[37:40] Tommy: Damn shame.

[37:41] Jimi: Because he does a great performance.

[37:43] Tommy: There are some clips.

[37:44] Jimi: It's such a good performance.

[37:46] Tommy: Yeah.

[37:46] Jimi: Um it's Ben Vereen, man.

[37:48] Tommy: Like Ben Wild Legend.

[37:50] Jimi: Ben Vereen made 70s musical theater.

[37:55] Tommy: Like it is.

[37:56] Jimi: I think that's one of the reasons why I love it so much, is just a few.

[37:58] Tommy: She does the Ben Vereen there between this and Pippin and everything else.

[38:04] Jimi: Like it's he's just a queen, and I love him.

[38:09] Tommy: I love you, Ben.

[38:11] Jimi: Um do you think Ben Vereen listens to podcasts?

[38:14] Tommy: Um I think if he was going to listen to a podcast, he'd listen to this one.

[38:21] Jimi: Maybe that'd be good though, wouldn't it?

[38:23] Tommy: I wonder if we do have any like secret megastars who are tuning in right now.

[38:29] Jimi: Hello.

[38:31] Tommy: We're sorry if we say weird things about you.

[38:34] Jimi: I know.

[38:34] Tommy: Post on Reddit.

[38:35] Jimi: Comment as you know, I love you see our way?

[38:41] Tommy: I believe been drinking God, so tell me that I'll say.

[38:47] Jimi: Did you see our way?

[38:49] Tommy: I believe that you in God, so tell me dancing.

[38:55] Jimi: I think that's a Jesus.

[39:06] Tommy: Scream and love the poor for you.

[39:10] Jimi: Every one of the 10,000 would do whatever you ask them to be.

[39:30] Tommy: We will win ourselves a home.

[39:34] Jimi: You'll get the power and glory.

[39:42] Tommy: You get the power and the glory.

[39:57] Jimi: Okay, let's let's go and tell me a bit more about the actual banging chains.

[40:03] Tommy: The bang and change.

[40:05] Jimi: Um, because I think it's got some.

[40:07] Tommy: But what I do want to address is the elephant in the room.

[40:14] Jimi: Before we address the elephant in the room, I would like to point out that you said I want to talk about the bangin' tunes in the show.

[40:20] Tommy: I think it's got some.

[40:22] Jimi: It has some.

[40:23] Tommy: Yeah.

[40:24] Jimi: It does.

[40:25] Tommy: It has some.

[40:26] Jimi: It has some.

[40:27] Tommy: Only a few.

[40:29] Jimi: Well, are you literally defending Jesus Christ Superstar?

[40:33] Tommy: No, I'm saying that like a snapshot of this show.

[40:35] Jimi: I'm saying like 65% of the songs in this show are bizarre and unmemorable.

[40:41] Tommy: Mmm.

[40:42] Jimi: Do you think?

[40:43] Tommy: I do.

[40:44] Jimi: Fascinating.

[40:45] Tommy: Well, we'll discuss that.

[40:46] Jimi: This this section.

[40:48] Tommy: But I do want to address the elephant in the room, and that elephant is Mary Magdalene.

[40:53] Jimi: Because is it my least favorite female part in musical theater?

[40:58] Tommy: Potentially.

[41:00] Jimi: Why?

[41:02] Tommy: She does nothing.

[41:03] Jimi: She's pointless.

[41:04] Tommy: I think she's really, really pointless.

[41:05] Jimi: I've kind of said before about what she is, and she is just another way for you to look at Jesus.

[41:11] Tommy: Yeah.

[41:12] Jimi: But she you're you're feeling my disdain for Jesus adaptations.

[41:18] Tommy: Yeah, it's that kind of thing.

[41:19] Jimi: But like I feel I'm trying to think of another adaptation that where she's an interesting character.

[41:28] Tommy: Um the Da Vinci Code.

[41:31] Jimi: Um I mean, yeah, there you go.

[41:34] Tommy: Like that the fair.

[41:35] Jimi: Um but like, but that's that's the thing, right?

[41:38] Tommy: Mary Magdalene is in this story because it's a Jesus story, and we have to have Mary Magdalene because it's a Jesus story.

[41:43] Jimi: But you also have to have a female, and she's the only one.

[41:46] Tommy: That's true.

[41:47] Jimi: Yeah.

[41:47] Tommy: So maybe we're talking more about the chauvinism of the Bible than anything else.

[41:51] Jimi: Yeah, yeah, to be honest.

[41:53] Tommy: Um I'm gonna give a shout out to a company.

[41:56] Jimi: I'm not gonna say their name because technically they should have done it, but um, I'm gonna give a shout-out to a company um that I saw a French last year do it.

[42:04] Tommy: Um, and they had all the Pharisees as female.

[42:07] Jimi: Um, interesting.

[42:08] Tommy: It was the most kick-ass thing I've ever seen.

[42:11] Jimi: That's pretty great.

[42:12] Tommy: Did they still wear giant butt plug hats?

[42:14] Jimi: They did not, which is good.

[42:16] Tommy: Oh no.

[42:17] Jimi: They did, but no, they just wore the like um the like pie hats.

[42:21] Tommy: Like the ones that look like cakes.

[42:23] Jimi: Not the ridiculous ones.

[42:25] Tommy: But they did like a five-part harmony for the end of Jesus Must Die.

[42:29] Jimi: Like soprano, like gospel, harm, and it was the best thing that I've ever seen ever.

[42:35] Tommy: That's fun.

[42:36] Jimi: That kind of that takes that makes.

[42:38] Tommy: I like that.

[42:39] Jimi: Yeah.

[42:39] Tommy: It makes it it wasn't like this feels weird.

[42:43] Jimi: It was just like this is absolutely fine and nobody minds.

[42:46] Tommy: No, and I I think it shifts the focus in a good way too.

[42:50] Jimi: Because the there, yeah.

[42:52] Tommy: Yeah.

[42:53] Jimi: Yeah.

[42:53] Tommy: Oh, exactly.

[43:03] Jimi: Because it was the same, we talked about this in Godspell, actually.

[43:05] Tommy: Um Steven Schwartz is quite open about it in Godspell that he doesn't think uh Judas should be played by a female because it changes things.

[43:14] Jimi: Yeah.

[43:14] Tommy: It becomes there's a there's an interesting heteronormative, but that's what we assume relationship that would happen there.

[43:21] Jimi: Whereas we assume a friend relationship with same-sex people.

[43:25] Tommy: For sure.

[43:26] Jimi: Um yeah, but I just feel like Mary Magdalene could do with at least another song, like at least one, um, where she's like, I don't know, talks about herself a bit more, you know, or history.

[43:42] Tommy: I don't know, but you thought something that gives her at least a little bit of depth that Judas has.

[43:49] Jimi: You know?

[43:50] Tommy: Exactly.

[43:50] Jimi: Yeah, just just something.

[43:52] Tommy: Just something.

[44:01] Tommy: I think that's it. Is it's like you know, and I guess there's not really any room for it, and I get that that's fine, but no, you could do it. There's room. Put it in act two when he's walking up the hill with the cross about how sad she is. Like do you know what I would do? I would take out Herod's song. Which would make me sad, but I understand why. Um I think Herod's song is the most catchy song in this show.

[44:27] Jimi: Yeah.

[44:28] Tommy: Well, I mean, I hate it. I've played King Herod, so I'm coming at it from a you know reasoned perspective here.

[44:36] Jimi: Did you have a cane?

[44:38] Tommy: I didn't have a cane.

[44:39] Jimi: Did you have a cane?

[44:40] Tommy: No, I didn't know.

[44:41] Jimi: I am disappointed.

[44:43] Tommy: I'll show you the picture, it looked pretty damn good. Um I yeah, I had a white coat and a kickline girls. It was pretty much like Rick Mail from the 2001.

[44:53] Jimi: Okay.

[44:54] Tommy: Um it was fine. But I just I hate I hate the song. I really do, I really dislike it.

[45:00] Jimi: Yeah.

[45:00] Tommy: Um why? I think I think the jokes are funny in it, and I think Tim Tim Rice has written good lyrics with it. Well done. But in the context of the whole show, I think it's so unnecessary, it's so detracting. I don't get why it is where it is, other than the fact that it needs to be there because that's what happened in the story.

[45:20] Jimi: Yeah, but I think it pulls you right out. Um, and I've yet to see a performance of it where I'm like, I get it.

[45:28] Tommy: Yeah, I get it. You're feeling my disdain for Jesus stories.

[45:32] Jimi: Yeah, I know. But it doesn't need to be there. Do you know what I mean? I think the reason it's the it comes right after 40 lashes, right?

[45:38] Tommy: Um No, no, no, no. Before.

[45:40] Jimi: Before. That's the whole point. So Pilot's like, you're not who is this broken man?

[45:46] Tommy: Such a good bit.

[45:47] Jimi: Um and then he's like Herod's case. There's a bunch of things. I mean, I think Jesus. So okay, if we're gonna justify why the song is here, it's because we need a happy song in act two.

[46:05] Tommy: I I don't know though, because like oh, otherwise it is going to be a drudge of an act. Sad, sad, sad, with more sad.

[46:18] Jimi: But you've got superstar. That's the thing though. You've got superstar there, which is the climax of the whole show, and it is upbeat as anything. And yes, it's full of irony. It's upbeat, but it's not funny.

[46:29] Tommy: Um it's the you know, the like it's no, but there's no other funny song in the show. Do you know what I mean? Like, there's no other funny song. There are mildly comedic songs.

[46:38] Jimi: Um what though? What should we do about Jesus of Nazareth?

[46:44] Tommy: Yeah, that isn't that's not laugh a minute. That's just cool, but it's not sad. Um, or even you know But Superstar is not sad.

[46:53] Jimi: Yeah, but there's a sense of irony to it. And we've seen because Judas was dead until right now, like it's dark, you know.

[47:01] Tommy: I don't think it is dark. I don't think it is. I think it's the like it's the sting in the tail, and it's not that kind of like huh, you know, feeling. I don't think it's like, oh my god, I can't cope with this agony of feeling. I think it's it's a cathar it's a catharsis moment, and then the show like ends, which is really important.

[47:21] Jimi: Yeah. Um so I don't understand what you mean, but it's funny. Um then the show ends, which is important, because otherwise it would still be happening.

[47:31] Tommy: It would just it would still be happening, yeah. Um but no, I just I just might just be biased because I played it and I didn't enjoy it, but I think it's it's the least necessary song of the show, but you know, I don't think any necessary. At least like write it, but make it not a weird, like, you know, uh 1930s caper. Do you know what I mean? Don't maybe a tip panel in a rock musical.

[47:54] Jimi: Like, I don't want you can do fun rock things.

[47:57] Tommy: Yeah. Do you know what I mean? I mean, who so okay, but then who is if if Jesus is a rock star, then who would Herod be? Because Herod has you know, Herod is the king, is the superstar de facto before Jesus comes in. He's like, oh, so you're the king now, and so if Jesus is a rock and roll rock star, then I think there is justification to give Herod a vaudeville number, a previous performative genre.

[48:31] Jimi: What about well what about instead of a like vaudeville kind of thing, what about something like a um Donnie Osmond uh style ballad? Like, do you know I mean like a Kruner like that?

[48:43] Tommy: I think you could do that too. Because I think that's like a rock and roll as opposed to rock.

[48:48] Jimi: Yeah. Do you know what I mean? I I do think the way to make Herod work is to make him a superstar. Um is to make him like yesterday's superstar. Um because that is why he has these questions, like, oh, you're oh, so you're the next Jonas brother. Well, tell me what your deal is, because I've been doing this for a long time. Oh, it's nothing? Oh, well, F you, get out of my floating pontoon pond.

[49:17] Tommy: Yeah, you know.

[49:18] Jimi: Yeah. I d well, maybe I just want it with more irony then. Maybe I want more because at the moment I just feel it's like it just takes you right out.

[49:26] Tommy: Yeah. Do you know what I mean? And it's annoying. Cause pe everyone's laughing at it and they're laughing because it's stupid. They're not laughing because Herod's an idiot. Do you know what I mean? Like they're laughing because it's a stupid song.

[49:38] Jimi: Yeah. And I and that annoys me. And I think they don't play up enough the progression of the story. Like, take him away, he's got nothing to say. Get out, get out, get out. Isn't like, well, this was your chance to redeem yourself and you know, not be crucified, but clearly you've messed that up, and so now you're gonna leave like that just.

[49:59] Tommy: And that's the thing if it was a little stronger, it might read better.

[50:02] Jimi: Yeah. I I you almost you do you almost want Jesus to s be able to say something back as well, because he doesn't say anything for the whole number. And guess that obviously annoys Herod, but I don't know, I feel like he he should have a like and and uh very much like a that's what you say that he says to Pilate.

[50:21] Tommy: Yeah.

[50:21] Jimi: Um I feel like he needs just a a bit of something there.

[50:25] Tommy: Yep.

[50:26] Jimi: Do you know what I mean?

[50:27] Tommy: I agree. And I think that would help make Jesus more active and give him.

[50:27] Jimi: Yeah. Yeah, that would help us. I just hate it. Anyway. Um Heaven on their minds.

[50:36] Tommy: Yay.

[50:37] Jimi: It's a good play on words, it's a great opening song. Yeah. It's uh it's just a sense I think it's sensational. I remember the first time I heard it and I just didn't understand. Like I was just like, what you know, it was just like uh an odyssey, an odyssey number. Um, because vocally, it was unlike anything else I'd ever heard before in musical theater. Because again, I was like you, I let I listened to this really early on. Um, and I was like, This is nuts.

[51:06] Tommy: Um, but then you know, listening to it for you know, however many years, um, and you start to really listen to what he's saying, and you just the the story unfolds perfectly in that number.

[51:19] Jimi: Yeah, do you know I mean it's it's a great opening number for that reason. I think that the concept of this number is the most riveting part of the story to me. The idea that you know, whether whoever they are, the disciples, the people, the you know, soon to be Christians have too much heaven on their minds, and this is Judas Iscariot's view that like the people around you are too concerned about doing enough good that they'll make it into the afterlife, so much so that they've forgotten that like the doing the good is the point.

[51:55] Tommy: Yep, yep, yep, yep.

[51:57] Jimi: And it's interesting because you do get a lot of you get a lot of discussion, obviously, with this show. Um it's controversy, and people are like, Well, do Christians like it, do Christians not like it? Um, and I've seen I've seen both sides of the coin, yeah.

[52:12] Tommy: Um, but a lot of the Christians that do like it talk about it from that perspective, and they talk about it like it's like it is like a warning tale almost of um you know understand that you can get away with yourself and you can become zealous, yeah.

[52:28] Jimi: Um and that's dangerous because you lose sight of of why, yeah, you know what I mean? And it it contextualizing the story of the passion beginning with this makes it, you know. Jesus was getting too popular, so now is time to go.

[52:48] Tommy: Which is interesting and is something that is not in the Bible and is not in, you know, Catholic studies. Um I think it's fascinating.

[52:58] Jimi: And whatever whatever your belief system is is a good lesson, uh, you know, against zealotry, against you know, this kind of idolization, which um explicitly a lot of religions denounce, but implicitly there's a lot of you know, but but Jesus was a great person, and like it doesn't matter, you know, you are a great person. Be a great person. Um it's good, it's dangerous, it's fun.

[53:29] Tommy: It is, it is, and that's the thing with that being your opening gambit, like hats off. Um heads off to you. Uh I do want to talk about The Last Supper though, as just like again, what an what incredible opportunity.

[53:49] Jimi: You don't like it?

[53:53] Tommy: Is it because he says jaded mandarin?

[53:56] Jimi: No.

[53:57] Tommy: It's okay.

[53:58] Jimi: It's because why why why is this why is this song here?

[54:05] Tommy: Because they need a fight.

[54:07] Jimi: Yes.

[54:08] Tommy: Okay. The The Last Supper is a long song, too. Um, I don't know why I don't like it, I guess. I don't know. I have no good reason. I have no good reason.

[54:18] Jimi: Because Adlon'd like Weber Ros.

[54:21] Tommy: Yeah. It doesn't read well to me. It doesn't stick out to me.

[54:24] Jimi: You kidding?

[54:25] Tommy: I think it's the best, I think it's probably the best one in the show.

[54:28] Jimi: Really?

[54:29] Tommy: Yeah, genuinely. Because it's just in terms of like an a fight song.

[54:33] Jimi: Yeah.

[54:33] Tommy: There's I think it's unrivaled. I genuinely do. I think you, you know, confrontationally, Miz, you're doing a great job, but here's the last supper. Because just in terms of the way it's written, it was written at the peak of a male range for both guys. Um, and they are going at it. And it's just a really interesting musical way of having an argument where it's almost like they're trying to like out belt each other. Um it's just so hearty. So it's because you're singing these notes, you can't help but bring that into your performance, and it's it generates some amazing performances this number. Um, and kind of bookmark uh book ended with the disciples singing um their refrain of the look at all my trials and tribulations. Again, it's that sting of irony, and it really hits home that these guys are clueless. Do you know what I mean? Like they they've just lost it now.

[55:30] Jimi: Um and it really sets Judas and Jesus apart from from them.

[55:36] Tommy: Yeah, I guess that's true. And I think lyrically it's really bloody good.

[55:44] Jimi: Yeah, I have no good reason for not liking it.

[55:48] Tommy: Well you go.

[55:53] Jimi: Um and then we can't we can't do talk about the songs of Just Girls out talking about Gethsemane.

[56:00] Tommy: Of course.

[56:00] Jimi: Which is probably the bit the biggest song from it. Well, maybe not. Maybe I don't know how to love him as the biggest song in I don't know.

[56:06] Tommy: I think I don't know. I mean, I don't know how to love him as memory. Like it's whether or not it is important to the show, it is the biggest song from the show.

[56:13] Jimi: Um I just don't get. Yeah.

[56:15] Tommy: You know, it's sending the clowns. It's like it it you did it's not important to the show, but it's a good song.

[56:22] Jimi: Um and so it has a life outside of the musical.

[56:25] Tommy: Yeah.

[56:25] Jimi: Um but Guestemene, whoa. Um absolutely.

[56:30] Tommy: And I I really like I know we talked about it earlier, but I think it's so um important that Jesus has this moment because this is his everyone's asleep, so this is his soliloquy.

[56:39] Jimi: Yeah.

[56:40] Tommy: Um and you really get to s to see into the mind of Jesus, which is not something you ever really get to do in any sort of fiction.

[56:48] Jimi: Right.

[56:49] Tommy: Um so it's fascinating to see this turmoil that he's in.

[56:53] Jimi: Yeah.

[56:53] Tommy: Um and again, just vocal acrobatics, like absolutely.

[56:58] Jimi: Yeah.

[56:59] Tommy: Which we don't I mean, that it I think that's another reason why this being in being written in the 70s is important. We wouldn't write a song like that now.

[57:08] Jimi: Exactly.

[57:12] Tommy: There'd be riffs and licks all over the place. Whereas this just like wail out uh whatever know it is.

[57:19] Jimi: Um yeah. And I must say, like you need to you need to watch this performance. So Ted Neely, who was the the original um and was in the movie, uh he actually no, he wasn't the original, he was an understudy, then was in the movie.

[57:36] Tommy: Um he came back to do it in two thousand and six.

[57:41] Jimi: Oh no, why um I think he was sixty-four or something like that. And it the I just can't get over the performance because he's he's aged and vocally he's aged. Um, but he's a rock star. Do you know what I mean? That like he is a rock star, and that is a rock star singing a rock star song and just the acting chops, just everything.

[58:03] Tommy: So that is if if you've never looked at the show notes before, I would a hundred percent This is the time.

[58:10] Jimi: Yeah, I would because it's a sensation.

[58:14] Tommy: I'm gonna click through to the show notes because I haven't seen this, and this sounds wonderful.

[58:17] Jimi: It's a sensation. And even just even if you don't like the song, even if you don't like the show, you're seeing a 64-year-old man who's had a whole career um uh uh i i s pour everything into this number, and you can tell it it's one of those things you can tell it means so much to him. It's that kind of thing.

[58:38] Jimi: Yeah, I mean when Colem Wilkinson comes back and sings Valjean, you're just like do whatever the hell you want, you're the best. It's that kind of vibe.

[58:45] Tommy: Yeah.

[58:46] Jimi: Um really really go and watch it. And he backphrases everything, but it's perfect, it works so well. I just don't uh well done. Very, very impressed.

[58:57] Tommy: Are you surprised at how much I love Jesus Christ?

[58:59] Jimi: I mean you had mentioned it briefly, but it is it's more than I expected.

[59:04] Tommy: Yeah, I really, really love it. I really love it.

[59:07] Jimi: Seven days, ma'am.

[59:08] Tommy: Yeah.

[59:09] Jimi: Seventies. You got a thing. I would which would which would you prefer to go back to if you could visit? The seventies or Weimar Germany?

[59:18] Tommy: Oh it's by Sophie's topics. I mean I mean a hundred percent the seventies because it's post-World War II.

[59:25] Jimi: I guess that's true. Like from like a safety perspective, but like just as a spectator, if you could experience the fun parts. Um I would oh gosh, that's really tough. That's really tough. And do you know what? I don't have an answer? I'll come back to you on that one.

[59:40] Tommy: Oh, I found it. I found the question.

[59:43] Jimi: Jimmy's lost in thought. This is the end of the podcast. He's just gonna be thinking about this question.

[59:50] Tommy: I wanna I wanna say something just now and maybe go back on it later. I think Weimar.

[59:58] Jimi: Because there's probably so much that went unsaid.

[1:00:00] Tommy: Yeah. We've got a certain thing. We've seen the civic things of the 70s.

[1:00:04] Jimi: Yeah, we were there. Um remember Woodstock. Um there's footage of Woodstock.

[1:00:12] Tommy: Yeah, yeah. No, I mean I mean like it's just because isn't that what everyone says?

[1:00:16] Jimi: Right.

[1:00:17] Tommy: You were at Woodstock or something like that. I don't know what they say. Something about Woodstock. Um whereas we don't, yeah, we don't really know much about that. So yeah, I'm gonna say that, but um I would stick around. You gotta take back um but yeah, I may change my mind at some point.

[1:00:33] Jimi: I'm Jesus in Gethsemane.

[1:00:35] Tommy: Aren't we all?

[1:00:37] Jimi: We are. Um hey, that's not a bad segue.

[1:00:41] Tommy: Hey, we only do good segues. By the way, that was really impressive because that was not set up. But let's talk about this. Let's talk about how Jesus Christ Superstar reflects us.

[1:00:57] Jimi: Then I was inspired. Now I'm sad. Um tired. After all, I've tried for three years. Seems like nighting. Why then am I scared to finish what I started?

[1:01:27] Tommy: What you started, I didn't start it.

[1:01:32] Jimi: God, thy will is hard, but you hold I will drink your time to nail me to your cross and break me.

[1:01:54] Tommy: Lead me, beat me, kill me, take me now before change my life.

[1:02:11] Jimi: How does it reflect you?

[1:02:15] Tommy: I always feel like I'm gonna put my foot in my mouth because there are plenty of really nice people who are more religious than me. I always find it baffling how many people have been convinced by the Jesus story over the years? Like putting any of your religious assumptions aside, put yourself in the shoes of a total agnostic.

[1:02:43] Jimi: Mm-hmm.

[1:02:44] Tommy: And to look at the impact that this story about this one human being from 2017 years ago has had over the course of human history is fascinating. Like, can you imagine if in two thousand years we had the Church of Lynn Manuel Miranda and like all sang Hamilton every Sunday and you know did weird bizarre rituals in memory of him? Um this is how I feel about Jesus' adaptations.

[1:03:19] Jimi: What I'm gonna say to you, this might sound odd.

[1:03:22] Tommy: What I'm gonna say to it is to be honest, Tommy, that doesn't sound too odd.

[1:03:27] Jimi: Really?

[1:03:27] Tommy: Like the way that the world is going, and this is the what I think about Jesus Christ Superstar, because actually I don't think it's a biblical story.

[1:03:35] Jimi: I know that's I know it's that you know, using the story with the Bible. But it feels more like a human story than a biblical story.

[1:03:41] Tommy: Yeah, exactly, exactly. Um but what you just said about Lin Manuel and people doing weird, you know, tributes to him, we're getting that right now.

[1:03:49] Jimi: We don't even need two thousand years.

[1:03:50] Tommy: I guess that's right. But like that, but that's right now right now is different. You know, the the apostles walking around and telling the story of Jesus 20 years after his death is different than a guy in a robe standing in front of a church recreating a moment that happened two millennium ago.

[1:04:10] Jimi: Yeah, I guess that's uh huh, but as in, yeah, no, I would I agree that probably won't happen, but I get I don't think that's what Jesus Christ Superstar is.

[1:04:18] Tommy: Right. Do you know what I mean?

[1:04:19] Jimi: Yeah, yes, the story is like you know, I've taken this it's it's almost like I've taken someone else's idea and I want to use that as a vehicle to talk about. Um but I think the whole idea of people doing weird rituals around uh Le Manuel Miranda is very, very, very on point when it comes to talking about Jesus Christ Superstar because the thing is the world that we live in, it's it's this.

[1:04:49] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:04:49] Jimi: Do you know what I mean?

[1:04:50] Tommy: Yeah. No, it's very true. Zealotry is a whole new ball game.

[1:04:54] Jimi: Yeah, and it does, it does, you know, point a magnifying glass at it. Um, you know, it's it's all of Judas. It's you know, too much having on their minds, you've become bigger than you should. Like if we had just quieted down, none of this would have happened, and you could have gone on doing the wonderful nice things that you do, but now that you have this fame category in your world, we're screwed.

[1:05:19] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:05:19] Jimi: I mean, m really, really, and especially because nowadays you pick up your phone and you can become famous. It's it's a really really tricky thing.

[1:05:30] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:05:30] Jimi: Um it's scary. I find it scary. I find it scary on a daily basis. Because the thing is, is you're someone who has a small amount of influence in the world now. It's like oh, it's terrifying.

[1:05:41] Tommy: Because that's a response. We've we've talked about this about comment in relation to that. It's just it's a responsibility that you have, yeah, that you didn't ask for.

[1:05:49] Jimi: No.

[1:05:50] Tommy: That you that isn't your intention, you know. I mean, that's not the intention, right?

[1:05:54] Jimi: But that is the necessary evil.

[1:05:56] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:05:57] Jimi: Um, and it's really, really difficult to um kind of corral that.

[1:06:04] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:06:04] Jimi: Um, I've got I've got a friend who um recently got a part on a quite a big uh soap opera um over here. Um, and within a week of him getting it, he's been on it for I think about a year now. Um within a week of him getting it, I saw like four or five Instagram accounts, um, you know, fans of blah blah blah blah, da-da-da-da-fans, da-da-da-da-da. I love da-da-da.

[1:06:32] Tommy: Um, and then you go in and you see, and it's like um such and such liked on the 3rd of November 2017, such and such commented, da-da-da-da-da. Um it's I I find it terrifying because what the hell is that?

[1:06:48] Jimi: Yeah, well, and it's I I think there are like it gets worse. Um, like the what what comes to my mind, so Buzzfeed.

[1:07:02] Tommy: The Try Guys, normally I'm the buzz.

[1:07:06] Jimi: Right. Normally I avoid saying the names of people I've known in real life. Um but I went to college with Keith from the Try Guys.

[1:07:14] Tommy: Right.

[1:07:15] Jimi: You're the Try Guy Story.

[1:07:17] Tommy: Uh they're the buzz, they do BuzzFeed videos.

[1:07:20] Jimi: Um they're four men, and they'll be like, today we're gonna try on bras.

[1:07:24] Tommy: Are they the ones that looked at each other's penises?

[1:07:27] Jimi: Maybe, probably. That sounds like they're like number they're like the big moneymakers for BuzzFeed.

[1:07:33] Tommy: Okay, okay.

[1:07:34] Jimi: I knew Keith in college.

[1:07:35] Tommy: Um I knew Keith before any of this.

[1:07:39] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:07:40] Tommy: Um to see people who I didn't go to college, like before I started musical theater mash, I would see people post videos that Keith was in that never knew him.

[1:07:54] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:07:55] Tommy: And that was weird and bothered me and made me feel uncomfortable from the beginning. But then accidentally, it's weird to say accidentally.

[1:08:06] Jimi: I didn't do this by accident, but you know, unintentionally, sometimes running into people on the street and them being like you're a musical theater mash is weird and terrifying.

[1:08:18] Jimi: And it's a weird confrontation because they're really excited to see you.

[1:08:23] Tommy: Exactly. They're like, Oh, I know ever I know all about I know what you feel like, I know the thing, I love the stuff you do, and it's a huge compliment. And so it's weird to feel awkward about that sort of thing.

[1:08:35] Jimi: But you know, who I am online is not who I am in real life.

[1:08:39] Tommy: I don't think that's true. I don't think anyone is who they are online and in real life is the same person.

[1:08:46] Jimi: Um so the idea of fame, the concept of fame, you know, examined on its own is fascinating. But then especially someone who like Jesus is probably the most famous person ever.

[1:09:06] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:09:07] Jimi: Right?

[1:09:09] Tommy: Right.

[1:09:09] Jimi: And like, you got a lot of work to do if you're gonna surpass Jesus. You have to be famous for m, you know, at least two thousand years, if not longer.

[1:09:21] Tommy: Yep.

[1:09:22] Jimi: That's insane. That's an insane amount of fame. And like yeah, the the contemplation of that that exists in this musical is why it's not my least favorite Andrew Lloyd Webber.

[1:09:36] Tommy: Yes.

[1:09:37] Jimi: Yeah. I think that's I just feel like how on the nose was it. Before celebrity culture was a thing.

[1:09:42] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:09:44] Jimi: This is a commentary on celebrity culture that's almost unrivaled. Like I just I don't know how they did it.

[1:09:52] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:09:53] Jimi: Um it's scary because it's it's a weird self-fulfilling prophecy that it happens.

[1:10:00] Tommy: Yeah, I mean, we're we're seeing, you know, the Beatles were in the 60s. That's maybe when things, you know, when Beatles Yeah, Beatles, Elvis Presley, Elvis is coming into fame.

[1:10:11] Jimi: Like, we are starting to see this kind of fame culture. But like the point where fame becomes the thing instead of your art. Whereas before, if you were a musician, the thing people liked you for was your music and not you.

[1:10:30] Tommy: And especially with the Beatles, I mean, of course the Beatles, it became about the people and the personality and the things they do and you know going through their trash and finding the apple they ate half of.

[1:10:41] Jimi: And that has nothing to do with the music that they made that you love.

[1:10:44] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:10:44] Jimi: But is totally about the fame.

[1:10:46] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:10:47] Jimi: You know, it's why like I would love to see a contemporary adaptation of Jesus Christ Superstar with like Lady Gaga's Jesus or something.

[1:10:58] Tommy: You know?

[1:10:59] Jimi: Well she c I mean she could that's the thing is she she could be they are you know I mean that's the that's what that's what this is. But I think what Jesus Christ Superstar talks about again that nobody I I don't think does is the the danger the the danger that comes with fame.

[1:11:15] Tommy: Do you know I mean they're getting much too loud.

[1:11:18] Jimi: Yeah what happens when your fans go too far they close a show on Broadway.

[1:11:25] Tommy: Yeah yep.

[1:11:26] Jimi: Like do you know I mean that's I I don't know that because that honestly that was the first time when when comic closed I was like oh okay this is a new world that we live in.

[1:11:40] Tommy: Do you know what I mean? There may be other instances of it that I've not picked up on but that was the you know, that's that's in my world.

[1:11:46] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:11:46] Tommy: And I was like, that's the one that affected you. Fascinating.

[1:11:49] Jimi: Yeah. No, it's I mean, I think that's the thing. That's why this feels before its time. That's why it's you know, successful in revival. It's why I think as much as it pains me, Jesus Christ Superstar is a show to keep doing. Um because it's about that.

[1:12:06] Tommy: And the the double-edged sword of not only making you question the contemporary fame culture, but applying it to the very traditional religious existence that you know billions of people have.

[1:12:22] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:12:23] Tommy: Um is challenging and interesting, and I think at the end of the day, good, as a lot of challenging things are, which is it's nice, it's not nihilistic, it's not like fame is awful and destroys everyone. It's like fame is tricky, and here's how you might deal, but beware, you know.

[1:12:49] Jimi: Yeah, and I think I think it's really important to note that with Jesus Christ Superstar, um, they stop the story early.

[1:12:58] Tommy: Yeah, and that's really crucial because that is what makes it this this tale. Do you know what I mean? That's what makes it this warning tale, because Jesus doesn't come back at the end.

[1:13:07] Jimi: No, do you know what I mean? We don't wait three days and here he is, and everything's fine.

[1:13:11] Tommy: Yeah, um it's it it very much just ends, and he is just a man on a cross, yeah.

[1:13:19] Tommy: Um, and you don't get that prestige moment.

[1:13:23] Jimi: No, um even more so, and this is depending upon how you read it, I think is fabulous, but is also a big middle finger to some people. Jesus doesn't get, you know, resurrected, Judas does. That's Judas comes back. We watch Judas die, and then he comes back. Clearly, as a like, we're not pretending that Judas is alive. Um, it's not like, oh wow, unexpected. But like the guy who plays it comes back on stage and sings a song. Um, in that very musical theater way. Um, that's you know, under a certain reading, is a big middle finger to certain sects of Catholicism, especially if you make Judas the mustache-twirling Snidely Whiplash villain of your passion story.

[1:14:17] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:14:18] Jimi: To give him that resurrection and not give Jesus a resurrection is interesting.

[1:14:23] Tommy: Yeah, and it makes a lot. It makes Jesus a human and Judas something else. The warning tale, that's what it is. Um, yeah, I just think it's so good. Um, if you are in London, I'm not sure, is it why is Jacos Evis on?

[1:14:45] Tommy: Oh no, it's done.

[1:14:46] Jimi: Oh, it's done. Dang.

[1:14:48] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:14:48] Jimi: So yeah, if you saw the open air one, let me know how it was. I've heard lots of good things. I think actually see, in terms of like recent hit in the nail on the head, um, I think the good one was the recent arena tour that they did in like early two uh 2010 or whatever.

[1:15:07] Tommy: I think pictures.

[1:15:09] Jimi: Well, you can get, you can get, is it was uh filmed.

[1:15:11] Tommy: Oh really?

[1:15:12] Jimi: Yep, so you can get that. So that was the one it had to mention Mel C, Sporty Spice herself, um, and Chris Miles, who you wouldn't know.

[1:15:23] Tommy: Nope.

[1:15:23] Jimi: He's a DJ.

[1:15:25] Tommy: Alright.

[1:15:26] Jimi: And they had uh this guy, um, Ben Forster, who and I this is this is where I want to kind of let end things on a question mark, is because Ben Forster was um discovered using uh TV talent show. Members of the public become fans and vote for who they want to win.

[1:15:53] Tommy: And I'm like, what? Like for all the shows, first of all, you know, having your thing as who do you want to be Jesus is already just a little bit odd. Um, but the fact that you're finding this character who's supposed to be this representation of, you know, someone at the pinnacle of fame and, you know, has a bunch of crazed fans, yeah, you want to do that by using the cre do you know I mean it's yeah, no, it's it's very like you I can't decide whether it's antithetical or the perfect choice.

[1:16:36] Jimi: Exactly, exactly, and that is the thing, and we are in our Gethsemane for that because it is it fantastic, is it, you know, full high drag, or is it or is it so or do you have your head up your ass so much that you don't even realize what you're doing?

[1:16:56] Tommy: Exactly, exactly.

[1:16:58] Jimi: But I think my personal opinion is that they knew exactly what they were doing because um this was this was the production that Andrew Lloyd Webber has been waiting for. Um, because he was like, I'd never wanted it to be in a Priscilla March, um, it's a rock concert, it's not meant to be, you know, uh sure. That's why he didn't like the film because it's like, why are you sitting in a desert? It's not that.

[1:17:21] Tommy: Um, and I get that because that I think setting it in a desert is what makes people confused because they're like, Well, it's a it's a Bible story, though, isn't it? And you're like, actually, kind of not like I'm not, it's yeah, in many ways.

[1:17:32] Jimi: Um, so yeah, uh it's a really really cool production. They did some really really interesting stuff. There'll be uh there's a little documentary, I'll pop it in the show notes. Um, but yeah, that's how they found that's how they find their Jesus, and who knows?

[1:17:47] Tommy: Fascinating.

[1:17:49] Jimi: You could you too could be the next Jesus listener out there.

[1:17:53] Tommy: I know.

[1:17:54] Jimi: What the hell is that? Do you know what I mean? Like that's it's weird, peculiar.

[1:17:59] Tommy: Yeah, it's strange enough to be cast as Jesus.

[1:18:01] Jimi: It's even stranger to be cast as Jesus definitely.

[1:18:04] Tommy: Because people, yeah.

[1:18:06] Jimi: Or like, sorry, you're not going to be Jesus, right? Like, what does that mean?

[1:18:12] Tommy: Was it was it like did they like have crosses that they would like hand to them or take away from them like presents from The Bachelor?

[1:18:19] Jimi: I don't think they did for this one. I don't think it was a show.

[1:18:23] Tommy: Because remember, I've told you about Over the Rainbow.

[1:18:24] Jimi: Yes, I've seen bits of the rainbow.

[1:18:27] Tommy: Um, I don't think it was as flashy.

[1:18:30] Jimi: Um, I didn't watch it because it was on ITV.

[1:18:33] Tommy: That won't make any sense to you.

[1:18:34] Jimi: I know what ITV is, thank you very much.

[1:18:37] Tommy: Yeah, but do you know why I wouldn't watch it because it's on ITV?

[1:18:40] Jimi: Because it's trashy.

[1:18:41] Tommy: No, because it has adverts.

[1:18:43] Jimi: Oh yeah, that's a thing you don't have sometimes.

[1:18:46] Tommy: Exactly.

[1:18:46] Jimi: Because you pay a TV tax.

[1:18:49] Tommy: Yeah, 140 pounds.

[1:18:52] Jimi: A year?

[1:18:53] Tommy: A year.

[1:18:54] Jimi: Oh, that's much cheaper than my cable bill.

[1:18:56] Tommy: That's awesome.

[1:18:57] Jimi: Well, I mean, no, that's compulsory if you want to watch TV.

[1:19:01] Tommy: I know.

[1:19:01] Jimi: Do you know what's compulsory if you want to watch TV in the United States?

[1:19:04] Tommy: 50 bucks a month.

[1:19:06] Jimi: Uh seriously.

[1:19:07] Tommy: Oh yeah.

[1:19:08] Jimi: Oh yeah. No, don't get me started.

[1:19:10] Tommy: Oh, okay.

[1:19:11] Jimi: Well, that's yeah, be thankful for your TV tax.

[1:19:13] Tommy: I'm very thankful.

[1:19:14] Jimi: Thank you, Ligue Cake.

[1:19:16] Tommy: But a lot of people hate it because they're like, I was just paying for the BBC, but that's fine. The BBC's fine.

[1:19:20] Jimi: Anyway, we're not getting into that.

[1:19:22] Tommy: Um so yeah.

[1:19:25] Jimi: Yeah, maybe yeah.

[1:19:27] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:19:27] Jimi: Good production.

[1:19:29] Tommy: Very good production.

[1:19:31] Jimi: Go check it out. Um, yeah, I'm really intrigued. I can't I can't gauge how our audience are gonna feel about JCS.

[1:19:39] Tommy: Yeah, I don't know. It's always religious ones are always weird to me because I'm biased, but also assume that theater types are less likely to be religious types.

[1:19:53] Jimi: Uh-huh.

[1:19:53] Tommy: Um, but that often adds an extra flair to religious musicals.

[1:20:01] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:20:02] Tommy: You know, because you come at it with less inhibition.

[1:20:06] Jimi: Um exactly.

[1:20:08] Tommy: Exactly. And I think yeah, because I was always I remember I was surprised with God's spell.

[1:20:14] Jimi: Um so I'm ready to be surprised again.

[1:20:17] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:20:19] Jimi: I've certainly enjoyed talking about this more than I expected.

[1:20:22] Tommy: That's good.

[1:20:23] Jimi: I'm glad. I'm very, very glad. And I'm glad that you've been you've been nice and open-minded enough to have a discussion.

[1:20:30] Tommy: Mildly.

[1:20:31] Jimi: Mildly. No, you've done really well, Tommy. I'm proud of you.

[1:20:34] Tommy: Thank you.

[1:20:35] Jimi: I haven't called Andrew Lloyd Webber a shoe at all.

[1:20:39] Tommy: No, you haven't.

[1:20:41] Jimi: It's my self-restraint.

[1:20:43] Tommy: Like Jesus would have done.

[1:20:45] Jimi: Exactly.

[1:20:46] Tommy: Jesus Christ, Super Deemed.

[1:20:51] Jimi: Jeffrey?

[1:20:53] Tommy: Get out of here.

[1:21:00] Jimi: Tell me what you think about your friends at the top.

[1:21:03] Tommy: Do you see beside yourself the pick on the rock?

[1:21:06] Jimi: Hey, who the walls he wear inside?

[1:21:09] Tommy: Is he where you are?

[1:21:14] Jimi: Did you mean the dialect that was that a mistake?

[1:21:17] Tommy: Did you know your best is that would be a magic break?

[1:21:21] Jimi: Don't give me wrong.

[1:21:23] Tommy: Don't give me wrong.

[1:21:24] Jimi: Don't give me wrong.

[1:21:26] Tommy: Don't give me wrong.

[1:21:31] Jimi: I only wanted to know.

[1:21:33] Tommy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:21:35] Jimi: Jesus Christ.

[1:21:36] Tommy: Jesus Christ.

[1:21:38] Jimi: Who are you off?

[1:21:40] Tommy: Have you sacrificed?

[1:21:42] Jimi: Jesus Christ.

[1:21:44] Tommy: Jesus Christ.

[1:21:45] Jimi: Who are you off?

[1:21:47] Tommy: Have you sacrificed?

[1:22:03] Jimi: Jesus.

[1:22:10] Tommy: Tell me what you don't get me wrong.

[1:22:23] Jimi: Tell me, tell me all.

[1:23:13] Tommy: So, Mr. T, that was JC.

[1:23:17] Jimi: We are Jimmy, I'm so excited.

[1:23:20] Tommy: Evita.

[1:23:22] Jimi: Starlight Express.

[1:23:24] Tommy: Love Never Dies.

[1:23:26] Jimi: Joseph.

[1:23:28] Tommy: Song and Dance.

[1:23:29] Jimi: Tell me in a Sunday.

[1:23:31] Tommy: The list is longer than I want it to be.

[1:23:32] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:23:33] Tommy: Sorry, pal.

[1:23:35] Jimi: We'll get that.

[1:23:36] Tommy: And then we'll have to revisit some of them for us.

[1:23:38] Jimi: No joke.

[1:23:39] Tommy: Never.

[1:23:41] Jimi: I know.

[1:23:41] Tommy: I know I do think about that because we try and tell them like our secrets, yeah.

[1:23:47] Jimi: So we try and like space them out and alternate with Sondheims.

[1:23:51] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:23:51] Jimi: But we're gonna what we can do in Run A.

[1:23:54] Tommy: I don't know.

[1:23:54] Jimi: We need a third.

[1:23:56] Tommy: There's they're only the big two.

[1:23:57] Jimi: We need a third.

[1:23:58] Tommy: Exactly.

[1:23:59] Jimi: Maybe by the time we get to the end of the list.

[1:24:02] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:24:03] Jimi: Then Lynn or Miranda will have 15 shows and we can just start talking about those.

[1:24:03] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:24:03] Jimi: Or Dave Malloy will have 15 shows and we can just start talking about those.

[1:24:12] Tommy: Well, that's much better idea.

[1:24:13] Jimi: Well, if you go by his like flow chart of ideas, he's got like 90 in the pipeline.

[1:24:17] Tommy: Yeah.

[1:24:18] Jimi: I understand that though. Um so that was Jesus Christ Superstar.

[1:24:22] Tommy: It was indeed.

[1:24:23] Jimi: Tommy, you survived, and I am really proud of you.

[1:24:26] Tommy: I'm nervous, Jimmy, that in like three days I'm gonna get a Skype call again, and you're gonna be like, we gotta talk about it more.

[1:24:36] Jimi: Because was that too meta of a joke? Like three days later, and you're gonna like roll away the stone and realize.

[1:24:42] Tommy: Oh, it was meta, sorry, it was meta.

[1:24:45] Jimi: It's because I view it as a human story, Tommy. So let's talk about that.

[1:24:48] Tommy: Uh no joking. Uh let's move on.

[1:24:51] Jimi: Let's move on. I did, I was I wonder if I can find it, and I'm nervous to tell you about it because I was thinking of using it as an unsung heroes. Um, but I was Spotifying Jesus Christ Superstar, the album on the ride on my ride home from work so I could listen to it one more time.

[1:25:07] Tommy: Uh-huh.

[1:25:07] Jimi: And I discovered a musical called Jesus Christ Superstar. The T is crossed out, and the subtitle is a collection of contemporary comedy musical theater songs.

[1:25:20] Tommy: Oh.

[1:25:21] Jimi: I didn't listen to it.

[1:25:23] Tommy: Oh, intriguing.

[1:25:24] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:25:26] Tommy: That is intriguing.

[1:25:27] Jimi: Jesus Christ Superstar.

[1:25:28] Tommy: Yep.

[1:25:29] Jimi: I like that.

[1:25:30] Tommy: That's funny.

[1:25:30] Jimi: It's clever.

[1:25:31] Tommy: It's very funny.

[1:25:32] Jimi: Um intrigued. 2012.

[1:25:35] Tommy: But I can't do it friends like heroes now because now you know about it.

[1:25:38] Jimi: That's okay.

[1:25:39] Tommy: Also, yeah, we need to we need to let people know what's going on.

[1:25:41] Jimi: Yeah, we gotta tell people if you have an unsung heroes to suggest to us, you can only tell one of us.

[1:25:47] Tommy: Because if you tell both of us, it doesn't work.

[1:25:49] Jimi: Exactly.

[1:25:49] Tommy: It's so funny though.

[1:25:51] Jimi: It's so so funny.

[1:25:52] Tommy: Um, so that I think we should make that point.

[1:25:54] Jimi: I mean down the line, we should make that point.

[1:25:56] Tommy: Pick who's your favorite and message us privately about your unsung heroes show.

[1:26:02] Jimi: Exactly.

[1:26:03] Tommy: So funny.

[1:26:04] Jimi: And um, I'm more than welcome to suggestions.

[1:26:07] Tommy: I'm sure Jimmy is too.

[1:26:09] Jimi: Yeah.

[1:26:09] Tommy: Yeah, you can only tell one of us.

[1:26:11] Jimi: Exactly.

[1:26:13] Tommy: So please oh goodness bless.

[1:26:15] Jimi: Um, because as soon as it's done, it's wasted.

[1:26:18] Tommy: We can never do it.

[1:26:19] Jimi: We can never do it, because then we know about it.

[1:26:21] Tommy: Exactly.

[1:26:21] Jimi: So please, like, stop.

[1:26:23] Tommy: Otherwise, we just won't have it to do like the whole segment.

[1:26:26] Jimi: There's only gonna be one episode.

[1:26:29] Tommy: Uh, exactly.

[1:26:30] Jimi: Halo two.

[1:26:32] Tommy: Yeah, we got we got one recorded.

[1:26:33] Jimi: Get excited, it'll be coming out soon.

[1:26:36] Tommy: You have a quiz question, don't you?

[1:26:37] Jimi: I do.

[1:26:38] Tommy: I'm gonna tell you through quiz.

[1:26:40] Jimi: Um, so our last show, Jesus Christ Superstar or whatever, features a song by Felix Mendelssohn, uncredited. Our next show features a song by Ludwig van Beethoven, credited.

[1:26:54] Tommy: What show?

[1:26:55] Jimi: What could it be?

[1:26:57] Tommy: Who knows?

[1:26:58] Jimi: If you want to get in contact with us, I'm MusicalMash on Twitter and Musical Theatre Mash on YouTube.

[1:27:03] Tommy: And I am As and Hendricks on both platforms.

[1:27:07] Jimi: Or you can get in touch with us over on our show Twitter, which is at Jim and Tomic.

[1:27:12] Tommy: Or you can go to our website, Jim and Tomic.com, which has a link to the Reddit discussion and to our Patreon.

[1:27:17] Jimi: Yes.

[1:27:18] Tommy: Please tell your friends all about us.

[1:27:21] Jimi: Um listen to our things.

[1:27:23] Tommy: Don't tell your friends about our podcast.

[1:27:24] Jimi: I mean, do tell your friends about our podcast, but don't tell your friends about our podcast.

[1:27:27] Tommy: Just tell them all about us.

[1:27:29] Jimi: Yeah, exactly.

[1:27:29] Tommy: Have you heard about this guy?

[1:27:31] Jimi: You can collect figures about him.

[1:27:33] Tommy: Um one of them is I don't know.

[1:27:37] Jimi: It doesn't matter.

[1:27:38] Tommy: We'll see you next week.

[1:27:39] Jimi: Bye.

[1:27:40] Tommy: Bye.

[1:27:51] Jimi: Um, put the pork in the fridge.

[1:27:52] Tommy: Go get a foot massage.