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[0:00] Rory O'Malley: You're listening to episode number 41 of Living the Dream with Rory O'Malley.

[0:04] Rory O'Malley: If you like the podcast, you know what to do.

[0:07] Rory O'Malley: Subscribe, rate, review.

[0:11] Rory O'Malley: Audition, side job, swimming upstream.

[0:14] Rory O'Malley: Believe it or not, you're living the dream.

[0:18] Rory O'Malley: Hello, dreamers, Rory O'Malley here.

[0:20] Rory O'Malley: Welcome to Living the Dream.

[0:21] Rory O'Malley: I'm your host.

[0:23] Rory O'Malley: I am so happy that you have downloaded and listened to this podcast.

[0:30] Rory O'Malley: Thank you so much for joining me on my journey talking with my actor friends and people in the business.

[0:39] Rory O'Malley: Us uh crazy weird folks.

[0:43] Rory O'Malley: Um, I have a wonderful guest today, Barrett Foa, who I've known for such a long time.

[0:49] Rory O'Malley: He was on Broadway in Avenue Q and in Spelling Bee, and I got to see him in Avenue Q and also uh Spelling Bee, but in Spelling Bee, I was his understudy.

[0:49] Rory O'Malley: I was his understudy as Leaf Coney Bear, and I was also understudy to another gentleman named Josh Gad, my buddy from college.

[1:11] Rory O'Malley: So we go way back, and it is so exciting to see the trajectory of his career and to get to hear how this all happened.

[1:24] Rory O'Malley: I did not know the story.

[1:26] Rory O'Malley: He is currently on NCIS: LA, which he has been on for nine seasons.

[1:32] Rory O'Malley: I cannot believe it has been that long.

[1:35] Rory O'Malley: That nine seasons went by so fast.

[1:38] Rory O'Malley: I feel like he just got this job the other day.

[1:41] Rory O'Malley: Um, but he has been killing it on that show, and I loved finding out how out of the blue that all came together.

[1:50] Rory O'Malley: You're gonna really enjoy this story.

[1:52] Rory O'Malley: Um, and also his candor about how difficult it is to do nine seasons of a TV show.

[2:00] Rory O'Malley: It's funny because you know, I often talk about doing eight shows a week and the grind of that.

[2:05] Rory O'Malley: I think that he really found a similar challenge and probably a way to deal with it in a similar way that you do on Broadway.

[2:12] Rory O'Malley: Getting through doing nine years of a TV show.

[2:17] Rory O'Malley: It's a very different medium, very different uh set of skills, but clearly uh a similar challenge.

[2:25] Rory O'Malley: And uh he's very candid about hitting a brick wall and how he worked through that and the things that he learned on that TV show.

[2:35] Rory O'Malley: And uh he's a great guy.

[2:37] Rory O'Malley: He's also wearing uh lemur onesie.

[2:42] Rory O'Malley: And uh yeah, there'll be more on that in the conversation.

[2:47] Rory O'Malley: I'll let him explain that.

[2:50] Rory O'Malley: Um here is my talk with Mr.

[2:53] Rory O'Malley: Barrett Foa.

[2:55] Barrett Foa: I do I did bring a change of clothes. That's by the way.

[2:58] Rory O'Malley: Well, what do you need it for?

[3:00] Barrett Foa: I really don't. But there was a moment where I was like, is that inappropriate? Will I be sweaty? Will it be too hot?

[3:05] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[3:08] Barrett Foa: So well, if it gets too hot, you just let me know because we we don't have bands on the sound.

[3:12] Barrett Foa: I'm fine, but I loved it.

[3:14] Barrett Foa: This is a lemur lemur onesie.

[3:17] Barrett Foa: A lemur onesie. I have a tail and ears.

[3:20] Barrett Foa: Yeah. And these little these cute little um thumb holes.

[3:23] Rory O'Malley: Oh wow.

[3:25] Rory O'Malley: Perfect.

[3:26] Barrett Foa: How convenient for your thumbs.

[3:28] Rory O'Malley: So you have this on because you were at a...

[3:28] Barrett Foa: I was not a rave.

[3:33] Rory O'Malley: Okay, well, what I called it a rave, and you're like acting like it was sacrilegious.

[3:38] Barrett Foa: I just I just want to defer differentiate uh the fact I was at an uh early morning dance party with like good vibes.

[3:46] Barrett Foa: It's called Daybreaker, and they have them all over the country, and I think all over the world they're starting.

[3:51] Barrett Foa: Okay, and they've had it for three years in LA at least, and it's once a month, and it's just basically um people getting together and dancing in the morning before work.

[4:03] Barrett Foa: It's like 5:30 to 6:30 is yoga, which is optional, and then 6:30 to 8:30, you're just dancing, and they serve coffee and little breakfast things and yogurt and juices, and you just go and dance your heart out?

[4:18] Barrett Foa: Yeah, and then there are these guys like uh a horn section, it's like um sax, trumpet, and trombone, and they're going through the audience, the the the crowd, and they're like harmonizing and syncopating with the DJ.

[4:31] Barrett Foa: So there's a DJ, that's what it's like.

[4:33] Barrett Foa: It's a DJ, and uh there's always like a theme.

[4:35] Barrett Foa: So one theme was like um pink, and this this theme was their birth, it was their third birthday, so it was birthdays and onesies.

[4:43] Barrett Foa: So everyone's wearing onesies, and it's just it's literally just like it's and it's a sober party, you know, they don't serve alcohol.

[4:49] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[4:50] Barrett Foa: And I don't think anyone was on drugs because it's 6:30 in the morning, and sure.

[4:55] Barrett Foa: I don't know, I guess that's a way to start to your day, but it's not the way I want to start.

[4:57] Rory O'Malley: They're all professionals in onesies, exactly, exactly who are gonna change and go to work.

[5:01] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[5:01] Barrett Foa: But it's like instead of going to the gym, why not dance your heart out with all these fun, awesome people with like positive vibes and just get high off your own freaking adrenaline.

[5:10] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[5:11] Barrett Foa: It's so it's such a fun way to start your day.

[5:13] Rory O'Malley: I really highly recommend it.

[5:15] Rory O'Malley: I think it sounds amazing.

[5:16] Rory O'Malley: I'm only nervous about waking up that early and getting somewhere.

[5:20] Rory O'Malley: That's really hard for me.

[5:21] Barrett Foa: You can do it. I believe in you.

[5:24] Rory O'Malley: You've never seen me try to wake up.

[5:25] Barrett Foa: Okay, there you go.

[5:26] Rory O'Malley: Okay, it's not pretty.

[5:28] Rory O'Malley: It's not pretty.

[5:28] Barrett Foa: Getting me in a onesie at like 5:30 in the morning would be a real...

[5:28] Rory O'Malley: You're in the right business then.

[5:34] Barrett Foa: Yeah.

[5:35] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[5:35] Rory O'Malley: Wait, you had to do that when you were on the television show?

[5:38] Barrett Foa: No.

[5:39] Rory O'Malley: To get up?

[5:39] Barrett Foa: No, that was like nine to five.

[5:41] Rory O'Malley: What?

[5:41] Barrett Foa: Oh, it was nine to five.

[5:42] Barrett Foa: You're doing a single camera TV show that an hour drama.

[5:46] Rory O'Malley: Were you hour drama?

[5:47] Barrett Foa: No.

[5:48] Barrett Foa: No, with Kelsey Grammar and Martin Lawrence.

[5:50] Rory O'Malley: No, no, it was a half hour multicam.

[5:52] Barrett Foa: That's right.

[5:53] Barrett Foa: So we were like at an office.

[5:55] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[5:55] Barrett Foa: Oh my god, it was fantastic.

[5:58] Barrett Foa: We were out, like Kelsey Grammar every day was like, let's get out of here by five o'clock.

[6:02] Rory O'Malley: I was like, okay, boss.

[6:04] Barrett Foa: Wow.

[6:05] Rory O'Malley: I loved that.

[6:06] Barrett Foa: That's great.

[6:06] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, it was really, it was pretty easy.

[6:09] Barrett Foa: Yeah.

[6:09] Barrett Foa: It was pretty it was fun.

[6:10] Rory O'Malley: But I know you are an NCIS: LA.

[6:14] Barrett Foa: Yes, you got all the letters right now.

[6:15] Rory O'Malley: I did.

[6:16] Rory O'Malley: I didn't have to practice maybe a little.

[6:19] Rory O'Malley: I because I always say like uh Law and Order S V U or you know, any kind of time there's letters, I have messed them up in the past.

[6:27] Rory O'Malley: But I know your show, and uh you have this is what I didn't know.

[6:32] Rory O'Malley: This is the ninth season.

[6:35] Barrett Foa: Yeah.

[6:36] Rory O'Malley: How is that possible?

[6:37] Barrett Foa: We just we just started, we're shooting it right now.

[6:41] Barrett Foa: The 200th episode.

[6:43] Rory O'Malley: I and you've been with it from the beginning.

[6:45] Barrett Foa: From the very beginning.

[6:46] Barrett Foa: All 200 episodes.

[6:47] Rory O'Malley: Don't understand how that happened because I feel like you just got this and it's been like I thought for maybe five years.

[6:57] Barrett Foa: Yeah.

[6:58] Barrett Foa: I could not believe when I heard that it's been nine seasons.

[7:02] Rory O'Malley: When Melissa from your show came backstage from you know, say hi, and she was like, Yeah, we're on our ninth season.

[7:08] Rory O'Malley: I was like, What?

[7:09] Barrett Foa: Yeah.

[7:10] Rory O'Malley: Oh my god.

[7:11] Rory O'Malley: It's how does that feel?

[7:13] Barrett Foa: Well, it feels it's it's kind of unreal, but it become becomes real when we have when we have these marker points.

[7:22] Barrett Foa: Like 200.

[7:23] Barrett Foa: When we had 200, and there was like a huge cake that they made with all of our little characters.

[7:27] Rory O'Malley: Cakes make it real.

[7:28] Barrett Foa: Okay, cakes really do make everything real.

[7:30] Barrett Foa: They really put everything in perspective.

[7:33] Barrett Foa: When you see a cake with the big 200, and your little characters are all there, and um the heads of CBS come and make speeches, and you get a really fancy watch in your dressing in your you know, in your trailer.

[7:46] Barrett Foa: Um watch.

[7:49] Barrett Foa: Um, you know, just think where you're just like, they're like, Thank you so much.

[7:56] Barrett Foa: I'm like, oh, thank, thank you.

[7:58] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[7:59] Barrett Foa: Um, but people are making speeches, and El O Cool J and Crystal Nonel are making speeches, and you just kind of look around the room and there's a ton of press, and it's like, oh yeah.

[8:10] Barrett Foa: Because we're on a show that is um very popular, yeah.

[8:16] Barrett Foa: Uh has a lot of viewers, but the viewers are not in the demo, they're not in the um the target demo that like advertisers want.

[8:25] Barrett Foa: So they're not young in a certain you know age range.

[8:29] Barrett Foa: Um they're a little older.

[8:32] Barrett Foa: They're our parents, they're our parents, they're sometimes our grandparents.

[8:35] Barrett Foa: A lot of like when I was home for Thanksgiving, your mom, my mom had, my aunt had, my grandma had the show on, and they love you and they're obsessed with you, and what's gonna happen with you and Nell and all this, like all these questions.

[8:46] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[8:47] Barrett Foa: But it's not a hot show, it's not a, you know, Netflix, it's it's a it's a broadcast television show.

[8:56] Rory O'Malley: That's like makes it very unique.

[8:58] Barrett Foa: That it's a broadcast hick.

[9:01] Rory O'Malley: You know?

[9:01] Barrett Foa: Yes.

[9:02] Barrett Foa: I mean, we are the 33rd longest running television show in all of television history, which if you think about all the television shows that I've ever been, it's like that's crazy.

[9:14] Barrett Foa: It's like it's just like we're up there with bonanza and ER.

[9:20] Rory O'Malley: And you're like, what?

[9:21] Barrett Foa: What is that?

[9:23] Rory O'Malley: So that feels good and and reminds you these these moments that we had, this like huge press moment that we had last week really makes it real and kind of brings it home and you're you kind of realize where you are.

[9:34] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[9:34] Barrett Foa: Because you just kind of start showing up for work and it's that family.

[9:38] Barrett Foa: I mean, nine years, it's like that's like high school and college plus.

[9:42] Barrett Foa: Yeah, you know?

[9:43] Barrett Foa: So you're with these people a lot, and um, and it we uh we do kind of form this family, and it's sometimes great and it's sometimes not, but like for the most part, we don't have a lot of D we don't have any divas, we don't have any of that like craft.

[10:00] Barrett Foa: You have a lot of heroes grateful for they're they're nine years.

[10:04] Barrett Foa: They're grateful and they're just they're just like we're here to work, right?

[10:07] Barrett Foa: And it's like Kelsey Grammar, a little bit like let's go.

[10:12] Barrett Foa: Like we have we all have families, right?

[10:14] Barrett Foa: But um, uh, but I am single.

[10:17] Barrett Foa: I'm single.

[10:17] Barrett Foa: I'm gonna get real close to the mic and say that I'm single.

[10:19] Rory O'Malley: Uh no, we've underlined that.

[10:21] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, okay, good.

[10:23] Barrett Foa: The like, you know, I mean, people want to get in and get out.

[10:26] Barrett Foa: It's not about like vanity or so we're really lucky in that way.

[10:31] Barrett Foa: Um, and people are like, You guys are a really easy cast to work with.

[10:36] Barrett Foa: And we have worked with a lot of casts and do work with a lot of casts, and they are not as easy to work with.

[10:42] Barrett Foa: So that feels good.

[10:43] Barrett Foa: It's those those moments that mark the occasion that you realize kind of where you are, right?

[10:47] Rory O'Malley: Oh yeah, pinch me.

[10:48] Rory O'Malley: This is fantastic.

[10:49] Barrett Foa: Because it becomes kind of normal.

[10:51] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, but I mean, it's it's you've done you had done other TV and film things, but nothing that would be close to nine seasons.

[10:59] Barrett Foa: A handful of guest stars.

[11:01] Barrett Foa: I mean, yeah, if that, like, you know, four guest stars, five guest stars.

[11:04] Rory O'Malley: It's just to go from you know, being in this theater world and all that you have accomplished there to nine seasons of a TV show.

[11:14] Barrett Foa: I I'm still like wrapping my head around the fact that it's nine.

[11:17] Barrett Foa: I really can't because I feel like I just found out that you were doing it.

[11:20] Rory O'Malley: Do you know what I'm saying?

[11:21] Barrett Foa: I mean, I'm still wrapping my my head around it too.

[11:24] Barrett Foa: It's it must be like we're aging too because time goes by so quickly, but 200 episodes is a huge accomplishment.

[11:32] Barrett Foa: It's really amazing, it's a lot of work because what the way that a single, like a lot of people probably don't know, including like I didn't know until the last few years when I started doing single camera TV shows, how much time it takes to set up every shot, and it's so much waiting.

[11:51] Barrett Foa: It's you're there all day long.

[11:54] Barrett Foa: Huge, really long days, yeah.

[11:56] Barrett Foa: Um, as opposed to multi-cam, which is more like something on a set on a stage, and you have a few cameras watching the acting.

[12:04] Barrett Foa: Sometimes you didn't I don't think you had a live studio audience, but there are sometimes with live studio audience, so it really does feel like you're doing a play in front of an audience to get that feedback, yes.

[12:12] Barrett Foa: And we do not, it is very much in a vacuum.

[12:15] Barrett Foa: It is I it's so weird that it's even still called acting.

[12:20] Barrett Foa: Because it just feels like a completely different kind of acting.

[12:23] Barrett Foa: Yeah, you're doing things out of order, you're like, what just came before this?

[12:26] Barrett Foa: What's happening after this?

[12:27] Barrett Foa: Yeah, you're not creating an arc, you're just like doing the scene, and the arc is created by the editors or the director or the lighting, or there's so much stuff that's going on without you, and you just kind of say the words and go forward.

[12:40] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[12:41] Barrett Foa: You kind of are just like another set piece in this picture that they're painting and editing together.

[12:50] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[12:50] Barrett Foa: And you are not, yeah, you're not kind of crafting that arc for your character.

[12:56] Barrett Foa: I mean, you have to think about that, but and where you are like in the in the grand scheme of like the episode.

[13:01] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[13:03] Barrett Foa: But it's so different than it's so different.

[13:06] Barrett Foa: When you're telling when you're telling a story in front of a group of people and you start at the beginning and you take them on that journey, you go on the journey with them.

[13:13] Barrett Foa: It's very communal and it's they're on the journey, you're on the journey, and you're feeding off each other that live audience thing. There's just really nothing like it. And it's weird to be in a vacuum and out of order, and um, and I'm still not used to it. It's I mean, it's not my favorite type of acting. Yeah, it's um, and that's why I try to you know go back to the theater as much as I can. And um, yeah, I mean, there's there's free time that I have, and I like I almost wish that I have had used it or will you like use it to my advantage more? Um we can get into that though.

[13:51] Barrett Foa: I have free time, yeah. Let's what do we do? You want to see that? Well, you'd have to come to the theater. I did. I started a podcast. That's basically what I did. But I'm saying, like, I know that feeling because when you're given a job and it's this great job, but you also have a lot of downtime while I'm backstage and everyone asks me, what do you do? And then you just get more and more anxious about should I be should I be doing I should be doing something to change the world? I should be, you know, and it it puts a lot of pressure on you. You're like, no one cared when I was unemployed what I was doing, and I had all the time. No one asked me.

[14:23] Barrett Foa: Right. But now that I have a job and it has like some free time attached to it, people are constantly asking me that. But um I want to get into that.

[14:32] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[14:33] Barrett Foa: No, no, we we we we we can right now. I mean Is that what we're talking about right now?

[14:36] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, sure.

[14:37] Barrett Foa: We we we have no rules on living the dream. I feel like we should should we like back up a little bit? We we are don't you worry, we are going to get to the beginning. But I sometimes I like to start where you are right now, yeah. So people know, you know, because they know, especially because we have a lot of theater listeners.

[14:55] Barrett Foa: Yes. And so I want them to know that you're on this amazing hit TV show for nine seasons.

[15:03] Barrett Foa: Okay, let me I have now I'm gonna talk more about the nine seasons. Since you wanted to go to the beginning, I'm gonna take even more time here. Sure. Um nine seasons, people always say, like, how do you deal with eight shows a week? You know, like that's such a that's a very specific uh challenge. So do you make it fresh every time? Making it fresh every time. Right. You never repeat an episode. You never, but I'm sure you repeat sets, you repeat looking into the computer to find the information and to get the, you know, like you're in the same scenarios and situations. Do you pull on your theater experience, like taking from those challenges and how to stay present and and grounded? Or is it just like a completely different challenge?

[15:47] Barrett Foa: I think it's a different challenge for me because it really is just about like what's the what's the line? Right. Because it's there's nothing that's in your muscle memory or in your mouth, you know, in that way that eight was a week where you're like, oh my god, what's the next line? What's the next line? And then you breathe and it just comes out. Yeah. Because you're your body knows it. Right. But there's not time for that soaking up of the words of the and so it's more about instinct and just like kind of shoving the words in your brain and then getting them out. Right. And not thinking too much. And not thinking too much. Because when you do start thinking too much, then you do start acting a little bit.

Right. And um shaping it. Yeah. And it's not really your job. Right. It is like more about the editing that does. It's like you kind of have to get out of its way and deliver it. Um I am a deliverer of information a lot, but also I have like quirky funny scenes with the girl, and um, you know, low status scenes with you know, Elko Jade and Chris O'Donnell, or um freaking Linda Hunt, who like has an Oscar and came from theater too.

[17:09] Barrett Foa: Yeah, and kindergarten cop.

[17:11] Rory O'Malley: My moon, please.

[17:12] Barrett Foa: Yeah. Um she like but I mean Linda has trouble with her lines, and she'll be the first one to tell you that. And it's and it doesn't matter because yes, time is money, and we want to get the shot and we want to go home, but you just need to get it once. And Linda is so amazing, yeah, that she needs to kind of put the words in her mouth. And she needs to kind of rumble them around a little bit. And then she'll try it a million times and she'll stumble and bumble. And then you just get that one take, and you're just like, fuck, Linda Hunt. Right. You are such a good actor. And she's a total audience favorite. And she's so good at what she does. But but like if you saw what's on the cutting room floor, you would be like, she's not good at what she does because she can't do, but that doesn't matter. Right. Because it's worth the waiting around because it's just so fantastic for you to get it.

[18:17] Barrett Foa: Elo Coljay had, I was, I actually had, I mean, let's talk about some dark days. Um, so I had like some real a lot of troubles in my head for many seasons. Okay. Um, I was insecure, I was not feeling supportive, I wasn't supported, I was not feeling um creatively fulfilled, and that I was like kind of self-sabotaging. I would like know my lines at home and drill them and drill them and drill them, and then I'd turn into like Cindy Brady on set, and like I'd see the red light, and like I couldn't get out. I'd just be like intimidated. And once I would trip over a word, then I would start spiraling because I was like, I'm gonna get fired, someone's gonna make fun of me, I'm not right. Instead of just like well, everyone um trips over the words and they just start their line over, and it's fine.

And and Chris O'Donnell, I remember, he was like, Everyone trips over words, but like you trip over a word, and then you I can just see you spiral. You just go down of like this berating yourself of like I'm never gonna get it, and then that's just a self fulfilling prophecy.

[19:27] Barrett Foa: Right. So there was there were just I just thought it was very insecure, and um we should probably talk about meditation, which helped with that, um, and some other things. But I remember L O Kolje saying to me once when I was having some trouble, he was like, in theater, you have the soil, and you have your seeds, and you have the sun and you have the water, and then you have all of rehearsal, and then you can blossom into your little rose garden, and you have the time to cultivate that.

[20:06] Barrett Foa: LL Cool J.

[20:07] Rory O'Malley: LL Cool J said it's okay.

[20:10] Barrett Foa: Okay, all right.

[20:12] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, so we got now this podcast is starting something else. I need to know all about LL Kul.

[20:17] Barrett Foa: Sure.

[20:17] Rory O'Malley: Todd.

[20:18] Barrett Foa: Todd.

[20:22] Rory O'Malley: Okay, great.

[20:22] Barrett Foa: Todd Smith.

[20:20] Rory O'Malley: Great.

[20:22] Barrett Foa: Uh ladies love, cool James Todd Smith. Amazing. It's the full ladies love cool James. Got it. But he goes by Todd, James Todd Smith. Okay.

[20:32] Barrett Foa: Uh so he was saying this garden, this garden metaphor in theater, and I'm like, yes, yes, that's what I'm used to. I want to be in a rehearsal room, and I want to foster it and cultivate it. And what's how do we get from here to there? And why does it feel real? And let's connect. And he's like, that none of that matters. What we need to do is we need to take the flowers from the flower shop, cut off their stems, stick them in the dirt, and take a picture of that. And you you you still have a garden. The audience doesn't know or care how it came to be. Right. It's just there, right? It's just frozen for time. So you just have to get it once. And then one second later, all the flowers, all the roses can just fall down.

Dead. Dead. Dead, fall down. They weren't in the dirt low enough, but you got the picture. You just got that picture. It's all you need. And that I don't know, sometimes I just think about that. I I told him that he told me that in season you know, three or whatever. And yeah, he was like, what? I don't know. He's full of all these little metaphors and a lot of wisdom. He's been around a long time. He's full of lot of quotes.

[21:46] Barrett Foa: I bet he likes to say things like dream work makes nope. Teamwork makes the dream work.

[21:50] Rory O'Malley: Teamwork makes the dream work.

[21:55] Barrett Foa: Um the other day, uh at the 200th episode, he he was like, I know it's cheesy, but ego is not your amigo. He's got a good one. Things like a lot of things like that. But he they're they're not bad.

[22:13] Barrett Foa: Cat posters are right. It's a little cat postery, but I freaking love that guy.

[22:18] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, he sounds amazing.

[22:20] Barrett Foa: But that is such a great metaphor for TV and and for theater. And but it's just like get out of your way. You just have to get it once. You just don't overthink it, don't need to just and also you, if you are so worried about getting it perfect, you're gonna miss what Linda Hunt finds, which is the per the great performance in the mistakes, in the get in her way there. Because that's all part of her process. Yes. Because every time it's different.

[22:52] Barrett Foa: Yeah, it's so weird. It's so weird that I'm like, you're I don't I didn't even realize that there were that many ways to say this line. Right. But you're just figuring it out and how you want to say it. And then finally it just makes sense and it pops in her brain and on the screen, and the audience just falls in love. Do you feel like part of it is she has an Oscar? And so, you know, she feels or everyone gives her the time to do that. Because I feel when I'm especially when you're a guest star on something and you come on to a set that's not your home. I just am like, my job is to stay out of everyone's way and make sure that their day is not made any harder because I'm here.

[23:34] Barrett Foa: Yes. So do you feel like you're when you're there, you're like, I don't want to Well that and that well, this is part of the problem also is how I started. I started um backing up to the audition. I um auditioned for uh the role of of Nate Getz, who uh was this psychologist on the show, and it was between me and another guy, and the other guy got it. Uh huh. So we both tested and the other guy got it. Right. And then they called me two weeks later to say, uh, we know that the network went with this other guy, but we kind of want you to we want you to be in the show, and we're gonna basically write a role for you. And at first it's gonna be like tech operator, and then we're gonna give him a name and we're gonna give you a little scene lit. And I guess I tested well in those pilots.

[24:23] Barrett Foa: Uh um, we were um we were on NCIS as like a backdoor spin-off, is that what they call it? A backdoor pilot. Okay. So we were on NCIS, it tested well, and they brought me in, and I was a guest star for the first 12 episodes of NCIS LA. Right. So I was like, and some the showrunner said to me, just keep your head down, keep what you're doing, keep on doing what you're doing, keep your head down, and we're gonna probably make you a series regular by episode 13 or at the end of the season. Wow. Um great. So by episode 13, um I became a series regular, and by the end of that season, they had painted that other mate character kind of into a corner and they didn't know what to do with him. And he's an amazing actor, and he comes back uh once once or twice a season because we love him so much and we love the character so much, but it just like didn't work in the puzzle of what the show was becoming, and we needed like the tech guy, and I was the tech guy, and my character became more and more important, but I kind of came in super low status of like, I don't know what I'm doing, I'm a theater guy, I'm a musical theater guy.

[25:39] Barrett Foa: Right. Here are these kind of alpha, not kind of super alpha male people who are L O Col Jay and Chris O'Donnell.

[25:49] Rory O'Malley: And is Chris O'Donnell's alpha male?

[25:52] Barrett Foa: Well, I kind of love that's just a little twinkle.

[25:57] Rory O'Malley: Okay, so maybe I gave away like I really love Chris O'Donnell.

[26:00] Barrett Foa: Keep going, keep going.

[26:02] Barrett Foa: Um, Chris. I mean, come on, yeah, an Irish circle of friends, um, school ties, Batman, Robin, come on. Yeah, I love him. Yes. So, and he's a total pro, but like the two of them are like very big masculine energies. Sure. And then you have, and then you're on.

[26:21] Barrett Foa: I'm on a CBS show. I'm on a crime procedural drama. I'm on a shoot 'em up, like, you know, Navy criminal investigative service. Like, what? Like the most kind of red state. It's like very far from Avenue Q. It's a very long way from Avenue Q. And a very long way from the Putnam Down's telling me.

[26:45] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[26:46] Barrett Foa: Which we have to get to. Yeah. We were gonna start all over. Don't worry. I just wanted to get all this in. There's gonna be a lot of it. Okay. So um what are we how are we doing with time? Am I just gonna bounce? I'm gonna, we're gonna do a we're gonna do a Mary Lou Henner and just go way over.

[26:58] Rory O'Malley: Oh great. I love it.

[27:00] Barrett Foa: Uh so where was I? So no, so I I just felt I was very um like fish out of water. I was fish out of water, but in a way, I kind of embraced the uh the nerd of him because he was a tech geek. So I kept playing low status, right? Which I realized in the in the scheme of the show. I'm like, you have all these alpha males and these big dogs. I was like, there has to be like a funny, weird underdog. Yeah, because if everyone's just alpha, then like you know, who's the beta? Like, what where's the dynamic?

[27:41] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[27:42] Barrett Foa: So it and it worked because then like the boys could kind of like make fun of me a little bit, but then I could be like smarter than them, and then they could be tougher than I could, and I would back down. Yeah, and it was it was I think somehow I I understood that, and then they started playing to those strengths and understood that who what I was, and then they started making me more of a nerd, and then I, you know, like this nerdy girl, and I like Renaissance fairs and weird, you know, dorky things. The glasses, the rims got thicker, and the rims got thicker, so like folk bottle by the end by season 10. I'm just like applying. Um so I kind of fit in, but unfortunately, I took that on, like Barrett took that on.

Uh and so I sort of getting intimidated, and I felt I was like, Am I gonna be fired? And are people not liking me? And I was just in my head and I would spiral and then we can get to some meditation stuff, or we can get to me kind of releasing some of that like nonsense that's not. Because that wasn't like in the first week. You're talking like a couple seasons in seasons in. And that's that I think that would be very surprising for people because they think once you're somewhere a couple seasons into something, or if you've done a show on Broadway for a couple of years, or that your confidence is just always there, but it's constantly challenged, it's constantly uh being something that you that you aren't sure you're gonna have access to because you have new challenges all the time, I'm sure.

[29:16] Rory O'Malley: What do you so do you think that there was something specific that happened, or you were just letting your character kind of take over?

[29:23] Barrett Foa: It it wasn't um no, I don't think it was my character taking over me. I think it was just the dynamic on set. I think it was um our original so showrunner um was uh he hired me and he kept me around, but he was not on set. He was not interested in talking to me or really anyone at all ever. Right. Um, so I would like try to make a meeting with him, and he would be like, I'm not, I don't want to talk to you. Right. Um, and I uh would talk to my other other friends on other shows who were like, oh yeah, I had this great idea for my character. So I went into the writer's room and I told them this, or I wanted to um have my have more stuff on on my set so that I could interact with it. And so I started just bringing in little props from my home, and then they were like, Oh, that's cool, because now it feels like a your real desk.

Yeah, and you can interact with props, and that's good for helpful for characters, especially when you're giving a lot of uh kind of mundane information. It's it's fun uh to show behavior. And the desks that we had were there was no pencils, there was no paper, we were just computers, right? And so I was like, I I'm just literally tip type tip tapping on this keyboard, right? And there was no behavior and there was nothing to play with, and I was like, what if I how about I and like no one, everyone's like, shh, no, no, there was just no collaboration. And I'm from theater and we're in a rehearsal room being like, what if I do this? Or how about we try this? Or let me just try it and see if you like it.

The director and you and the stage manager, whatever, you're all in a room collaborating, and you have that's what rehearsal is for. Right. But there is no rehearsal. Right. We you do it, you just do it. It's like, we'll read the words once, yeah. Um, we'll maybe block it. I mean, sometimes they block it with second team, meaning our stand-ins. Yeah, oh, that happened with me actually a lot. Yeah. So they're like, so you're just gonna start on set, see those marks, you're just gonna stand there and then just say your lines. Here we go, and action. And you're like, wait, what? Yeah. What's this scene about? We we haven't even go, go, go. Yeah. So again, no, no seeds, no sun, no water. Just take that picture.

So we'll get it eventually. Yeah. So um so that freaked me out. It just freaked me out. And I felt not uh collaborative. I'd felt not challenged. I I was just like, what why am I here? Right. And I just got in my head about it. Yeah. Um and that was scary and yucky.

[32:12] Rory O'Malley: Um, and was not coming from a creative place.

[32:15] Barrett Foa: Meditation helped you come out of that.

[32:18] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[32:18] Barrett Foa: Um I had some friends, Hunter Bell. Yeah. Uh, our friend, um, he was one of the writers of Title of Show, um, the Broadway musical, among many other things. And he and I were super good friends, and and he said something about meditation, and um, I was like, yeah, I don't have an extra 40 minutes in my day to uh devote to that, so I don't know what you're talking about, and how much money is it? Right. And you can find meditation classes for free, and you can do it for five minutes if you want. Um, but this kind of meditation is uh it's called Vedic meditation, and it's um 20 minutes twice a day, and it costs some money to to get the class. Here's the deal. I was like, that costs a lot of money, Hunter.

Hunter's like, it is the best money I have ever spent on anything in my entire life. Wow. And at the time, Hunter didn't have a ton of money to throw around like that. And I was like, wow, if he's saying that, um, and I I'm getting a pretty nice paycheck from CBS. Like, maybe I can afford to just see what this is about. Isn't it funny how sometimes we don't want to spend the money that's like the thing on us that would be the most helpful, even when we have access to it. Or, you know, I always find myself being so nervous to spend money and acting like the actor who didn't have any income whatsoever. Um, because I'm scared, I'm scared to, but when it's something that's going to like give your mental health or health in general, do you mean investors you're investing in yourself?

And here's the other deal when you actually do invest in it, you have skin in the game in a way that going to that free Buddhist temple and trying to find or good getting that downloading that app and like trying to stick with it, right? You're just not gonna do it the same way because you're like, oh, frick, like I I paid a lot of money. Let me at least stick to this for the first few weeks. It's a commitment. And then and then it becomes a habit. And then you become addicted to it because it feels so fantastic. You are you're basically like it's basically the concept of okay, I'll be happy when, right? Well, I'll be happy when this show gives me creativity. I'll be happy when I get more dollars in my bank account, when I get married, when I have this baby, when I get this car, when I buy this house. Yeah, the amount of followers that you are getting is never gonna be the best number, and you're gonna want more. And it's always it's that chase, right? Right.

[35:04] Barrett Foa: So the idea is wait, well, if we meditate, then we can find and practice finding this bliss in yourself now. And you, I mean, you you have like these transcendental trips. I mean, it's a Vedic meditation is an offshoot of um transcendental meditation, which is more quote unquote popular. Um, and the uh the person I learned from is named Emily Fletcher, who is a Broadway, used to be a Broadway actor or dancer. Yeah. And she's been in many things, and she was freaking out. She was in a course line on Broadway and she was freaking out and in her head and kind of sounds similar to what I was doing at NCIS LA. And she had a dressing roommate who was calm as could be, and she was like, How are you so calm?

And she's like, Oh, I meditate. And Emily learned and then is now killing it, and her, I'm gonna plug her, but because she's a friend, but also because she changed my life with this her company, it's called Ziva Meditation Z I V A. If you go to zivameditation.com, you'll you'll learn about it. If it's for you, it's for you, and if it's not, it's not. But it's like you find this, you you access and kind of practice these kind of bliss within yourself. And it's so weird how it happens, but basically you're just saying a word to yourself silently for 20 minutes, right? And your mind wanders, then it comes back and it wanders, it comes back. And for some reason, that tricks your brain kind of into this weird fourth state of um transcendent of existence. So it's like not waking, it's not sleeping, it's not dreaming, it's like another thing.

[36:44] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[36:44] Barrett Foa: And your mind, you can get to this place where you're like, oh my god. My body is like filled with bliss, with like these bliss chemicals. Oh. And because of that, yeah. And because practicing that and accessing that, then you I'm getting kind of woo-woo about it. But you in your real life, you start remembering that. Like you're you can access it without going into it for 20 minutes. It's like closer to you. Right. Or yes, or your body just remembers that. You don't even have to be like, hold on. Let me do this. This is a difficult situation. Yeah, let me just juice myself or sit in this corner. But it's like, no, no, you've been practicing that all along, twice a day, and you get you're it's like uh do you remember that um commercial like you got you got peanut butter in my chocolate, you got chocolate in my peanut butter.

It was like a Reese's thing. And it's like that. It's like, oh wait, you have life in my meditation. Oh wait, you have meditation in my life, and you're like, they kind of like over start overlapping. Sure. And it's fascinating how you're like, oh, I'm just a so much calmer person, and I don't care as much, and which is a weird thing to say.

[38:01] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, but yeah, you you don't obsess over or have anxiety over things that you don't need to, yeah.

[38:07] Barrett Foa: And so auditioning becomes just you're so much more relaxed. Um, you know, being on set, I found um dealing with people, stressful situations, you're just like, oh yeah, uh, it's not about this happiness that I'm gonna find later. It's just kind of oh yeah, it's always within it's this constant reminder, like that's actually just within you. P.S. It's just, oh, I gotta access that and practice it, but it's worth it. I mean, it's just changed my life.

[38:34] Rory O'Malley: Wow.

[38:36] Barrett Foa: I've been doing it for five years.

[38:37] Rory O'Malley: Wow.

[38:38] Barrett Foa: Yeah, almost six actually, actually. six years.

[38:40] Rory O'Malley: It's amazing. I remember looked that up. I've definitely done the apps, you know, I do it whenever whenever I can. I'm bad at meditation. I know how powerful it is. And like everyone who does it and is in this is committed to it has really, really positive effects from it. But it's it's just hard for me to sit still.

[39:02] Barrett Foa: So the secret hurts that it's not about that.

[39:06] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[39:06] Barrett Foa: Because it's it's hard for everyone to sit still. Um, and people are like, but I can't stop my brain from from wandering or my mind from thinking a thought. And you're like, well, uh, guess what? That's like telling your heart to stop beating. Right. So that's actually not the point of meditation. And there's like this, there's someone going around being like, start close your eyes and stop thinking.

[39:29] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[39:29] Barrett Foa: Which is impossible.

[39:31] Barrett Foa: Yeah. So train yourself to it's basic. No, you're good with your thoughts. If you just train yourself, you basically just like say this nonsense word that they give you. Uh, and you pay a lot of money for it. And it's like goobly gop. And then you just keep it. That could be the word. I mean, basically, it's like usually a one-syllable something rather. But it doesn't mean anything. It doesn't, it's not like a secret Sanskrit something. But um, and uh you just say you say something and then you you got get you wander off for 15 minutes and then you realize that you're off and then you come back. Right. And for some reason, or you go away for one second and you come back. Right. Or you've been for three minutes and you go, and then you're just but it's just this back and forth, and that's all okay.

It's just as soon as you find that you're off, then you just come back. Yeah, and you're and you're not like I did it bad. Right. Don't judge yourself. There's no, there's no, um, you don't, what is it? You don't get um uh hold on. We don't practice meditation to get good at meditation. We get we practice meditation to get good at life. Uh-huh. So you're not like, I'm the best meditator. Right. You're like, I had a kind of really thought-filled meditation today. Uh-huh. Okay. And then you're like, I had a really transcendental medit meditation today. Okay. Right. You know, and I remember my ex being like, hey, how was your how'd you how was your meditation? And I was like, it's fine. And there was never like because you don't, you can't attach to one or the other because they're both good.

Right. Anyway. You're not like getting on there like I saw white rabbits. Right. It was amazing. I mean, sometimes you do, but I'm like, that's no better than like a one where you're just like, I've been thinking about that thing that's bothering me the whole time. What's really amazing is having this conversation with you in a lemur onesie. You're literally like, I you're literally you have a tail right now. You're telling me about your blazer chemicals. But here's the deal. I mean, like it's weird because uh okay, yeah. So now I live in LA and I have all this free time, and I'm going to like dance dance parties at 6 30 in the morning and I'm wearing a lemur onesie. Yes. And I just went to Burning Manor for the second time.

And I meditate, and there are some spiritual things that I was like, I would roll my eyes at all this shit. Right. Before New York. In New York. I'm a New Yorker, I'm jaded, I don't need that. And you're like, you know what? I'm freaking 40. Yeah. I just turned 40 last week. Last week? Yeah. Happy birthday. That's fantastic. Aren't you around now? What do you mean that you're when's your birthday? Oh no, December. December. December 23rd. Oh, right, because it was around Christmas. That's what you're telling Mary Lou Henner. Yes. Um, so we anyway, it's it's like, what am I doing? Like, I gotta shore my shit up. Yeah. Like, there times a time's going. Like, what am I let's just try to make it as awesome and and fulfilling as possible.

Right. So I just need to, I think I just need to do some, you know, some some dig down deep because it was, I think four or nine years on this show, it's been amazing, but it's like it's gotten me coasting. Sure. Because I don't have to think about what's where the next paycheck is coming from because it's so steady, because I have a lot of free time and can cultivate friendships and um travel a lot. Right. Um there was a year like my mom was super sick and I was going back and forth to New York. Yeah, and I could because I realized that I had four days off of work. Right. And it was, and I got on a plane the next morning and I didn't have to think about wow, that's kind of expensive. Because I'm like, I'm going to see my ailing mother.

Yeah. I want to be there for her and help the family out because I'm in LA and I feel disconnected from that. And like I can afford it because I have the CBS money. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Right. You know? Right. But I get, then you get um, you know, disconnected from, well, where do I live? Am I living in LA? Right. Am I living in New York? Right. It affords you so much, but like you kind of get off what wait, what am I doing? What do I want to be doing? Right. It puts you on a track, and you're like, wait, did I choose all of these things, or are they just happening to me? It's true. And sometimes people are like, well, you won the lottery. And you're like, or I'm like. I don't even know if I wanted that ticket.

Or like I didn't, you're like, oh, I bought that ticket. Did I buy that ticket? I think I bought that ticket. Yeah. Um. And it is, I mean, it's weird to think like I did an audition and two callbacks, and then I and then my life changed forever, and a decade of my life. Yeah. Is my entire 30s was here. And in LA and on this show. And not in theater, which is where my love and passion lie. Right. But people are like, but you have so much stability now and you can do other things. I'm like, okay, but I'm now in 40. And what are those roles gonna be? And I'm is that different? And are people gonna remember me? And there it's weird, especially being on this show, which is not a popular show. Casting directors don't know, like l no one in this town knows me.

No one in like I'm like, does anyone in New York kind of remember me? I don't know. Sure. But and which is which is very nice. But I was a replacement at Avenue Q and I was a replacement at Spelling B, sure. But like I'm not I was kind of onto something in New York, and then I got this, which is fantastic. But like no one in LA knows me because I went on like three auditions. Right. And then got the show, which is like everyone's dream. Right. I didn't have to pound the pavement. Right. And it is successful. It's just what you're saying, like that that demo of people. And a lot of people like in New York and LA, they're watching the Netflix and everything else. The Netflix, I'm a grandma. Netflix.

Um I don't have that. Um, yeah, and Game of Thrones, and and you know, certain shows, but like certainly, I I I think this is so interesting because people would never ever imagine that these thoughts are going through your head. Never. And they, I mean, I I understand, I know that they are. Like every actor knows, but if people on the outside don't realize that this these are the things that you would think about. I mean, as and then also let me be very clear that I am so grateful for this job and for the financial freedom and for the popularity. But at the same time, these things haunt me. Yeah. I mean, like, haunt me. And I'm like, what have what have I been doing with my life? It's am I doing what I'm supposed to be doing?

What I really want to be doing. Right. And I struggle with that every day. Yeah. And I I know it's not like what I'm supposed to be saying. And as an actor, it's like, shut up and get your paycheck, and you don't have to think about anything, and you're so lucky, and I am so grateful. But there's other things out there, and that's the stuff that I'm like, well, meditation, well, Burning Man, well, let's let's explore and like push some boundaries and find some life in me. Right. Um, because on the playa at Burning Man, you're dehydrated and it's hard and it's hard. It's really difficult. And also fun. Yeah. But there's but life is gonna come and like shove itself in your face. Right. In the good ways and in like the bad ways of like, wait, I can't escape to my car, phone, uh, air conditioning, um, food that you know, like you're like, uh I'm out of my comfort zone, and I cannot go to my little gadgets and run away.

Right. And sometimes you can connect with people and that's so fantastic, and you you're partying and you're dancing in the middle of Nevada, but it's also hot and crazy, and you're like, I haven't pooped in four days, and you know, like it's it's there's there's a lot. And and and I'm like, yes, put me into that. I need that challenge. I need that life like hitting me from the good ways and the bad ways because I'm in a little bit of a pattern now. And I I don't know if I'd say a rut, but um, you know, you you're you you I'm I've 200 episodes. Yeah of basically the same episode every day, even though it's different yes, different records. You're in the same computer and same computer, same people, yeah.

Same same glasses. It's fascinating. Same glasses. Oh no, they're getting bigger. They're getting bigger coke bottle here. Yes. Well, I mean, let's you you talked about being in LA that you're from New York and that that was kind of a transition. You are one of the rare people who was born in New York City. I always say have a I've every time like when I were Gerald and I were in New York and we were like, are we gonna have kids? I was like, well, Barrett was born in New York City. You know, there aren't so many references. It doesn't seem too crazy. He's on his 12 20th season of that show NCISLA. Maybe our child will end up in LA on a uh CBS procedure. Um, but I mean you you have such an interesting story.

You went to a really great school. That's what what's the name of the school that in not not you're like which amazing school are you referring to, Rory? Dalton. I meant Dalton. We'll get to the University of Michigan. Please. You're like not the first University of Michigan person to gush about their school. Oh yeah. School Pride. Please. Um, but Dalton is where you went to in New York. And did you start doing theater there? Is that I did. Uh I started doing theater there, and I wasn't very good and um didn't know my lines, but uh people afterwards were like, here are some roses, and oh my god, you were so good. And there was applause, and I was like, this is fantastic. Um, so I was going to sports, like CPOA sports camp for four years, and like my face was melting off because I hated it so much.

And all boys, eight weeks sleep away. Yeah. Horrible. And uh then my parents wise up and they're like, okay, arts camp. Yeah. So I went to uh for a year to French Woods Festival of the Performing Arts. My goodness. It's basically stage door manner's little rival. Oh. Um, and uh I played guy I played Sky Masterson and you know, I was in eighth grade and and then eventually went to Interlock in. Right. Uh for four summers. Wow. Um it's my my four high school summers. And that's where I like got that like, oh, the arts are a thing. And you have to put work in and passion, and people are obsessed, and there are cast albums and they're uh listening, and and that's just musical theater. Then you are meeting opera people and fine art pottery people and uh violinists and oboists, and they're locking themselves in their practice rooms and practicing that credenza for you know hours and hours.

And I'm like, oh, I kind of just memorized the monologue and like said it. Yeah. And you're like, oh, maybe I should work on this. Maybe we should craft this a little bit. Right. So eventually, um, so and also interlocking, it's an upstate Michigan, it's so beautiful. But that's kind of when I started hearing about all the B FA schools and do I want to do go into musical theater? And I applied to uh some academic e-schools, but also I applied to University of Michigan and um went there. You went to Carnegie Mellon. Yeah. I applied to Carnegie Mellon and or I auditioned there, and I remember being like, thanks for letting me in, but I do not want to be in this school because it was so I did not have a good time visiting there.

That the town was weird, and I would talk to the people, and they're like, Well, it's not fun, but we're learning a lot. And I was like, You're not selling this. It was weird, it was interesting. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it it it was a weird time when I came in because they had just built the Purnell Center, which is the completely new drama building. Okay. So before I was I was visiting the old facilities facilities, and knew that the next year they were gonna be going into this new building, and not that the building was gonna make it more fun, but like they were spread out between three very old buildings. It was old. It was a little disjointed, and but it was kind of it was really charming in a way because it was like, you know, all these amazing actors had had gone there, and you know, you were like, oh, this is how category was yeah, yeah.

And then it went to this place that was brand spanking new and very um, you know, sterile, I guess you could say. So it took a while, like the four years to kind of like break it in. Yeah, break it in, put holes in the walls, and like, you know, we people used to get upset, like not teachers, but like you know, administrators, like we can't we have to keep this place pristine.

[52:50] Barrett Foa: And it was like, no, we don't. We need to like break it in, you know. Um, but yeah, I mean, Pittsburgh is actually a college town because there's so many colleges there, but I wouldn't say like if you were looking for school spirit, um, football games. I think because coming from the city, right? I wanted to have like a big 10 kind of Greek system, like not that I went to any football games, I went to one quarter of one football game. I know it's complete blasphemy. Um, and you know, the one Greek party I went to, I was kicked out of. Uh-huh. Um, which would never happen today, but um, I was a friend of whatever. Uh but what I'm saying is like I just wanted that college university experience with Ivy on the walls, and yeah, um anyway.

So I chose University of Michigan and I loved Ann Arbor and I loved my time there, and I learned so much and made lifelong friends. And um after graduating, I Rachel Hoffman, who's a casting director, she was in my class, and she went immediately basically into casting directing. Um and she cast me and Shoshana Bean and Chad Kimball and Capatia Jenkins and Elise O'Roman and Tally Sessions and Leslie Kritzer, and all these people who are working on Broadway now in a cast of Godspell off Broadway. And that was Stephen Schwartz was involved with the casting. He rewrote lyrics for the prologue for our production. Wow. Um and it was just one of those like crazy special off Broadway things. It was off off, and then we moved off, and we were gonna like have this whole life, but then like financial stuff fell apart. As it does.

[55:05] Barrett Foa: Oh yeah, no, I think I have it on my phone. It's I've moved up. Um so yeah, and so and we were all babies. We all had just graduated CCM, Boston Conservatory, University of Michigan, whatever. And um we it just but it put our names on the map. Yeah. And then shortly after that, I was in the original cast of Mamma Mia. I was a swing in that, and I left four months after we opened to be in um this musical called Kept, which was written by Henry Krieger, uh, who wrote Dream Girls and Sideshow, and Bill Russell, who wrote Sideshow, and um Steven Chiboski, who wrote the uh like young adult novel, The Perks of Being a Wallflower. Yeah, yeah. Which like we were all obsessed with. And I'm like, wait, you're writing the book to this musical, and the musical was basically the La Traviata Camille uh Moulin Rouge story, but uh in Studio 54.

Oh. So in like 1980 disco it was, and like instead of consumption, she gets what is HIV. Um and I played an actual character, and I was like the character guy. And I was like, okay, well, I don't want to be Mama Mia is great, but I'm in the ensemble. I was living with my parents because remember, I was from New York City. So after University of Michigan, I just moved back home. Amazing. Which I so I got to save money there. Amazing. And then um, and I was like, I have the Broadway credit, I don't want to be in this ensemble forever. This is fun, but I have an opportunity to play a lead role with an amazing pedigree. Andy Blankenbueller was the choreographer and Scott Schwartz was the director, and it was super super fun, but it lasted uh six weeks.

Right, you know, and maybe it'll go on, but it didn't. Not at all. I thought it was the best thing ever, and then the reviews came out, and I was like, oh, okay. Um, it's not. Um, but I was like, this is the kind of career I want to architect. I don't want to be in an ensemble, but it's fun to have my first Broadway show. Now let's keep going from there.

[57:20] Barrett Foa: And then I started getting like I did a Shakespeare play at Hartford Stage and the Shakespeare Theater in DC. It was a co-production, and it was um I played Claudio in Much Ado, and Karen Ziemba was Beatrice. Wow. And we were both like, okay, wait. So you're in musical theater and I'm in musical theater, but all these other guys are like in Juilliard, like Juilliard Yale grad school, NYU grad school, super fancy actor schmactors. And we were like, Have you ever done Shakespeare before? And she's like, no, and I'll she's like, Have you? And I was like, in college a couple of years ago. Yeah. Basically, I'm a Mamma Mia chorus boy. So I don't know what I'm doing here. But Mark Lamos directed it and he took a chance on me.

Yeah. And the two of us were like, wait, like a fish to water. Duck to water? Whatever. Um, we were like, this we get it because we get the cadences, we get the musicality of it. We can, and that's why musical theater people are, you know, are really great with Shakespeare. But that was that was super fun. But it was those kind of things where I'm like, oh my god, I'm stretching myself, I'm growing, right? I'm playing leading roles. Wait, I thought I was kind of gonna be this kind of chorus boy. Um, and here I am. Uh you know, when you get to the city, you have um you have goals, and you're like, I want to be a working actor. Yeah, and then once you start working, you're like, well, I think. Yeah, exactly. I can be a little more specific now.

[58:50] Barrett Foa: So you was that around the same time that Avenue Q was playing, or was it like was it already it was already off Broadway when you got it? It was off Broadway. I didn't see it there, but I worked with Jeff Whitty, who wrote the book, yeah. Uh, and he later won a Tony. Um he as an actor in like a workshop at Playwrights Horizons, and he played a squirrel and Matt Bowmer was in it, and he played a dog, and um yeah, exactly. Um we had fun, but like what I'm saying is he um they were papering the house. Avenue Q was opening on Broadway, and Jeff Whitty uh asked me, you know, to send out an email like, hey, who wants free tickets? Papering the house meets free means free tickets. Who wants to be in the audience for this thing?

Because we just opened and we need people in the seats. I'll go. I heard that was cool off Broadway. All right, so let me go. I sit down. I think I was alone, just a single ticket. And um the first line of the show is uh Brian saying, Oh, I just got laid off from my catering job. And I leaned forward in my seat and I was like, my friend just said that to me yesterday. And then I leaned back in my seat and I was like, this is a show about me. This is a show about my friends. Right. Oh my god, my generation. Like, this is what we're going through now. Like after college, living in New York City, like some real life shit. And then I get to, and then I just laughed and laughed. I see John Tartaglia bounding across the stage with all these puppets on his arm.

I was like, that is such an amazing role. I will never play that role. I didn't even like I'll never play that because I can't puppeteer. What is it? I don't know what he's doing. It's a he it's a it's another skill that I don't for him is makes it look like uh I mean I mean, yeah, he's unreal. He brings a puppet to life. Yes, absolutely.

[1:00:53] Barrett Foa: So then I was doing some off-Broadway things and this and that. And then my agent calls me a few months later and it's like, hey, would you like to audition for Avenue Q? And then I open my mouth to say, well, what do you mean? I don't, and he they're like, they know. Right. They are kind of starting anew. They need to not start, they need to find uh um actors and teach them puppeteering because they've exhausted the puppeteer community in New York, which is you know, 20 people strong. Right. It's working on Sesame Street, you know, like they have other things to do. They need it to make a challenge. Also, but also Avenue Q, you have to look a certain way. You have to do the comedy, you need to be able to dance, you need to there's the drama, like there's a lot that has to go on.

Sure. And puppeteers are sometimes puppeteers for a reason. Right. Like they like to hide behind walls. Sure. Um, and some don't, but like, you know, it's not they're not necessarily performers all the time. Right. So uh they were like, oh, we gotta get some performers in here and maybe teach them puppeteering. Let's see if that can happen. So I was in the first ever puppet camp. Wow. Um, so as Rick Lyon, who created all the puppets and created the role of Nikki Treky, and it was me and another guy in a room with these puppets, and he was just giving us some 101. And we spent two days, and it was kind of for our last final callback for producers. Wow.

[01:02:21] Barrett Foa: So you were there with other actors. One other. One other. And this was for the um the understudy. Right. Right. Of John Rachel. Right. Um, and uh I got it. Uh-huh. And then I had two weeks to learn the part, which never leaves the stage, and it plays two parts. You're playing Princeton and Rod. So the leading man, Anjanou, and the care this character role, this crazy voice, and the art of puppetry. Yeah. In two weeks, because John was going on vacation for a week. Wait, so you learned it in two weeks and then you went on? Yeah, for a week. So it was like, here's the role, but also here's another thing you have to do, which is like learn the art of puppetry on your arm. Yeah, yeah. And um being in that theater was a little challenging because I was like, hey, I was the guinea pig.

Right. If this worked out, then they could they could have more understudies and replacements, and this could this is a show that could last. PS, it's still running. Yeah. Um but some of these people who were in on Sesame Street for 15 years and this was their livelihood and their skill, they were like, who is this guy who just put a puppet on his arm for the first time two weeks ago and is now playing the lead? Like what like it was crazy. So it was a little bit of a strange environment to come into. Sure. But um I eventually ingratiated myself and I went on a lot uh that year. I went on 60 times. Wow.

[01:04:01] Barrett Foa: And uh well, John John took his vacations and he was also like the it boy. Yeah, because he was nominated for a Tony and was he was hosting everything, and he was just he said yes to everything, which he should have, and it was good. But sometimes by the end of the week, then he was a little cashed. Sure. So I would start to like go on on Sunday salary. Which is the best way to train to be where you were. So I'm watching his year. Yeah. So I'm watching him like a hawk because he's just the best at what he does. Yeah. I'm also having all these understudy rehearsals with Peter Linz, who is on Sesame Street and a professional, amazing puppeteer, and he was my dressing roommate at Avenue Q. He was teaching me everything I needed to know, and I became a decent puppeteer. Yeah.

[01:04:46] Barrett Foa: Um, and they asked me to, instead of, you know, replacing John with a star or a known name, they moved me up. And I knew two roles. So, so like I was a value. I also did Nikki and Trekie four times. Right. Woo. Um, which was not well, it's not my not totally my wheelhouse. I can't do that that Treky voice. Yeah, it's hard. You feel like you're just burning your chords off basically or doing something like that. Yeah. Um but I saw you. You did it. Yes, I did. I saw what the only time I saw Avenue Q on Broadway was with you. Yeah. And you had replaced John Tartaglia. Yeah. And you were wonderful. Oh, thank you. You were amazing. I was living in LA, I think. Oh what year was it? 2000. 2004, five, six.

Yeah. Yeah, I was living in here. Um I went on and that was great. And um, and then from there, basically, I think they so I was like, I had a nine-month contract, another nine-month contract, and they were like, Do you want to re-op? And I was like, I'm gonna audition for this thing called Spelling Bee because they need to because they're replacing Jesse Tyler Ferguson who's leaving to go do a show in LA.

[1:05:54] Barrett Foa: Right. And uh whatever happened to him? I don't know. Jesse who? Um he so yeah, so and then I got uh Coney Bear, and I had seen the show a million times because Celia Keenan Bulger was one of my best friends from college, and Todd Bonapane, um, who understudied Coney Bear and some and uh Magic Foot in Barfay. Um I went on to see him when he understudied, and so I'd seen it a lot, and I remember being like I'm done, I don't need to see Spelling Bee anymore. I'm good. And then they were like, Do you want to audition for Spelling Bee? I'm like, oh I kind of do like that role. That would be really fun to be with my friends Todd and Celia, who I went to the University of Michigan with, and um I got it, and I got to play with Celia, and Todd uh understudied me, and um then wait, how did you come in? Because he because Todd took a leave of absence for four months to do a play downtown.

[1:06:57] Rory O'Malley: Yes, the dog.

[1:06:59] Barrett Foa: He played a dog. Yes. And I had just moved to New York. I saw Spelling Bee in previews. That's when I got called up Josh, and I was like, oh my god, this guy Dan Fogler's gonna win a Tony, and you're the only person in the world who can replace him.

[1:07:12] Rory O'Malley: Oh, really?

[1:07:13] Barrett Foa: Uh yeah. He didn't give me a dime for commission. And um, and so then he went into the show, and then I was here in LA and I was like, I've got to move to New York, moved to New York, got a job as a in a financial firm as an assistant in a human resource department. Well, because then a month into it, I got Spelling Bee, but it was only for those four months that Todd was gonna be gone. So I kept the job. So I was going to the financial firm during the day and then coming to the theater at night. Because I knew like it was gonna end. I knew that it wasn't gonna be forever, and I I had this great day job. Yeah, so I kept it. Of course. Um, yeah, and that's how we met each other. And I went on as Coney Bear for you.

[1:07:57] Rory O'Malley: Right, I remember not a not a ton, but I remember there was like this week in January where you were gone. I don't think it was a full week, but I got to have like my entire family come.

[1:08:06] Barrett Foa: Oh, nice. Because you gave me a little bit of a heads up. I think it was like it was like personal days. It wasn't like you were calling out sick, but like, you know, they don't tell you things, and you were like, Right, so you know, just so you know this weekend in January, you're on what that was I can't remember. Brother's wedding? Anyway, it was something like that. It was a it was like a full five show weekends, right?

[1:08:27] Rory O'Malley: Right, right. Um, yeah, and that was a great environment to be in and it was like it feels like everyone was so young I look back at that I'm like my god we were children taking over Broadway show and that's what like now being in Hamilton I'm the old man and they're all children which I say on this podcast all the time but it's true like they are all so so young but that's what we were well meanwhile then we were all replaced yo yeah by even by even younger people yeah uh literally like uh well yes younger like people who were who I didn't even know who went to University of Michigan but I didn't even know them yeah um it didn't even overlap with them so we were yeah we were like the old old parts by then but um had you started going out to LA at all at that point?

[1:08:27] Barrett Foa: No I after Spelling Bee I did a production of uh Pirates how do you remember that I saw it at Paper Mill Playhouse I see a lot of theater Barrett um yeah pirates exclamation point yeah which was this like updated version of Pirates of Penzance and Nell Benjamin uh rewrote the lyrics and it was I thought so funny and it it was bopping around for a while it was at the Goodspeed and Paper Mill and Huntington oh it was fantastic I thought it should have I I it was fun but it definitely and it also coincided with this like pirate moment in the world pirates of the Caribbean like the saffragaway had a pirate moment we really did it was very and like every you go into any like um kid store or bookstore and it was like pirates, pirate this, pirate sticker book, pirate pop-up book, pirate pirate pirate pirate.

And um, and so it was it was I was like, we gotta ride this this. This is this is now. This is happening now. And then it just kind of it fizzled. But I shortly after that, I oh, then I did a play at Playwrights Horizons, an Adam Bach play called The Drunken City. And it was a six, six-person play, and um it was just I had so much fun doing it. Um we were all drunk the whole time, and the city tilted, and it was actually like the set tilted, and we would go back and forth.

[1:10:37] Rory O'Malley: Oh wow.

[1:10:37] Barrett Foa: It was just so that weird Adam Bach craziness. I don't know if you guys like any of you saw a life. Did you get to see a life?

[1:10:43] Rory O'Malley: No with David Hypiers.

[1:10:46] Barrett Foa: No. I can't I can't stop thinking about that play. It was one of the best things I've ever seen. It was the weirdest, craziest play. Anyway, Adam Bach has an incredible mind, and I got to be a part of his mind and his language. But I was like, hey, I'm doing theater. I'm like, how many of my contemporaries are going from like plays to musicals and musicals to plays? And that kind of gave me some confidence in like my acting. And uh I was I had moved back and in with my parents. Uh-huh. I was 30, and it was I was supposed to be there for like um a season for the fall. Right. And then I was gonna like buy a place because I was like, I'm gonna be here. I should invest in some real estate. Right.

Um, and it was just the bubble was the uh right about to burst. And I would like find a place in my parents would be like, you're paying this much money for this postage stamp. Yeah. And they're like, I think you should wait. And then so I did, and then a season became another season, became a year, became a year and a half, and I was living at home and I'm 30 and I'm single and I don't have furniture. And I was like, Barrett, you you have to not, you have to like live your life. Right. And so I was like, what if I just move out to LA just for a season for a season for a few months? Right. We don't have seasons in the house.

[1:12:12] Rory O'Malley: We don't have seasons.

[1:12:13] Barrett Foa: I would have seasons. That's why you've been here nine years waiting for the season. I just been waiting for winter to happen. No? Isn't there a leaf that needs to turn? No, I'm just watching it very closely. Nothing's happening. Nine years. So you came out here just kind of like, I need a change.

[1:12:28] Barrett Foa: Just a change, just to see. And I, you know, I had my agent had uh an office out here, and by office I mean one guy behind a desk, share a phone. And he was like, I guess I'm working with you. I don't know you, but I and I was like, I guess I'm working with you, I don't know you, but and we hit it off, and he sent me out all the time, and I got auditions and generals and was being charming and getting really close to things. And that was like September, October, November, and then in Jan in January, I was like, I'm gonna move actually after the holidays. I was like, I'm gonna move to LA and just see what that's like.

[1:13:07] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[1:13:07] Barrett Foa: And um I got a you know, used Honda Civic, which I still maintain is my favorite car. Um, and I uh I started booking things, uh guest stars. Yeah. And then um started, oh, but I oh that fall I was like, you know, people were like, so where do you see yourself? And I'm like, what do you mean? And they're like, you know, like an NBC show or an ABC show or a uh sitcom or a single camera, and I was like, What are you talking about? I literally had but I I moved to LA not knowing anything about television. Right. And here's me from University of Michigan with all this training, and I'm giving master classes to musical theater students being like, you can't come in to a rent audition singing Sound of Music.

Right. You know, like you have to know what you're doing, what you're going in for and what the styles are and what the equivalent is. And if you're gonna sing Rogers and Hammerstein, well, sing Rogers and Hart, maybe. Or you know, like these basic 101 things, and here I am in LA, not taking my own advice with a completely different medium.

[1:14:18] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[1:14:19] Barrett Foa: I'm like, I'm telling me you were singing Rogers and Hammerstein going into sitcom auditions. Is that not a good thing? Is that not a I think that might have been a problem, but I'm amazed you were booking we were still getting them. Maybe yeah, I'll go in there with a Rogers and Hart song. That's a good, it's a good, it's a good technique. Good. The um they were um no, so I just DVR'd the shit out of everything. I literally was like, I'm going to watch one show. I'm gonna watch every show. Right. Because at that time you kind of could, because it wasn't like Netflix and things. Right. So I was like, here are all the ABC shows, and I just DVR'd one of each. Right. And even if I didn't watch it all the way through, I was like, okay, this is what this show looks like.

This is what CSI is, this is what uh, you know, pushing daisies looks like. Yeah. And then I was like, oh, that's what they mean by an ABC show. This is more of a CBS show. Like I understood what those categories meant.

[1:15:15] Rory O'Malley: Wow, you really didn't watch TV.

[1:15:17] Barrett Foa: No, I didn't. I feel like people didn't do that then. Or maybe I just didn't. Maybe that's a New York thing.

[1:15:22] Rory O'Malley: I think it was a New York thing. I was just obsessed with theater. I would see theater all the time.

[1:15:25] Barrett Foa: Well, you had it. Like, I grew up in Cleveland. We didn't get to walk down the street and go to a Broadway show.

[1:15:31] Rory O'Malley: Sure, but in when you were here.

[1:15:37] Barrett Foa: When you were here, when you were in New York, you were watching television a lot.

[1:15:41] Rory O'Malley: Yes. Yes, but but but not as much.

[1:15:44] Barrett Foa: Right. But I think that it's kind of like you grow up doing something. You don't move somewhere and just completely stop. I definitely watched a lot less TV living in New York, but when you're in growing up in Ohio and you love acting, you where are you gonna go other than the movies and your TV? So my parents were not TV people. Right. We did not have VHS tapes. We did not, it's like, well, if you've already seen a movie, why would you ever see it again? Because there's so many other movies to see out there. Right. Which was a total Manhattan New York philosophy kind of thing. Well, we've been to that restaurant already. Why would you want to go to it again? And I'm like, well, I liked it. I want to go back.

No, no, no, there's a million more to try. You should keep going new, new, new, new, new. Yeah. It was like this kind of foe of philosophy and um and maybe like a New York City thing. Yeah. Uh so anyway, so here I am being like, well, what what what are these television shows? I finally kind of figured it out. And I could answer the question of like, well, I see myself more here and there, here on a sitcom or a single camera comedy. I mean, definitely I thought I was gonna be in a comedy, if anything, but I hadn't even thought about it. I wasn't go I didn't go to LA knowing if I even want to be in a comedy or a drama for a half hour or an hour.

[1:16:57] Rory O'Malley: How long was it from that January to when you were in three months?

[1:17:03] Barrett Foa: That's crazy.

[1:17:08] Rory O'Malley: That's crazy.

[1:17:09] Barrett Foa: It's crazy. It's insane. Crazy town. And in between, it was like everyone in LA who just heard that just threw up. Just yeah. Just threw the shoe at their iPod. Because you show up to LA and there's so many shows, there's so many casting people. It's so hard to meet anyone. It's so hard to get auditions. So for you to be able to get into an audition for what was going to be a big show because it was in that NCIS thing.

[1:17:36] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, that franchise.

[1:17:37] Barrett Foa: That franchise, like it was good, it had it was already the first spin-off of this franchise, yeah.

[1:17:41] Rory O'Malley: Wow.

[1:17:42] Barrett Foa: So they knew like this is going to be something for you to even get into that room as somebody who just showed up to LA. With not a power agent by any means. Right. I mean, again, a guy behind a desk. I wasn't like, I'm with WME, I'm like really set up. Right. Can I ask you, were are you still with that person or I'm not.

[1:18:02] Barrett Foa: Okay. Um, he moved to a different agency, and then I moved with him, but I didn't like the vibe over there. Um, and also I realized I'm working 10 months out of a year. Yeah. And well, the annoying thing was that I had to keep paying the first agent, the agency that got me that job, and not the guy right who left and put the one that got me and did all the work, and the one that was like my friend. And so I kind of lost his like friendship, which was sad, and like, you know, my guy when he moved, and I moved with them, but I was like, I don't need an agent. And there were I knew I had a lot of people telling me you don't need an agent because you're on this show right now. You're you're and when you're on a show, you're also contractually obligated to keep yourself available for that show. So going out and auditioning and looking for work isn't really an option.

[1:19:03] Barrett Foa: If there's something that could be fit into those two months that are off, right.

[1:19:08] Rory O'Malley: Okay.

[1:19:09] Barrett Foa: Um sometimes you can like do a guest star on another show while you're filming, but the one I'm contractually obligated, as you said, to NCIS: LA, and they're in first position always.

[1:19:21] Barrett Foa: So no one else wants to hire me to be a random guest star on their show if I'm in second.

[1:19:28] Barrett Foa: So because if I'm shooting on the same day as NCIS shooting, they're SOL because NCIS always takes precedent.

[1:19:35] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[1:19:35] Barrett Foa: They own me.

[1:19:36] Barrett Foa: Yeah.

[1:19:36] Barrett Foa: That's why I'm a series regular.

[1:19:37] Barrett Foa: That's why they pay me a lot.

[1:19:38] Barrett Foa: So they're not gonna, it's gonna inconvenience for them.

[1:19:41] Barrett Foa: Even though technically in my contract I can do other guest stars.

[1:19:45] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[1:19:45] Barrett Foa: Um, but and it's that weird thing where you're like, I'm not a name enough to be like, oh, we got Barrett Foa on this.

[1:19:55] Barrett Foa: You know, it's like, oh, he's that guy who's the tech nerd on that one show.

[1:19:58] Barrett Foa: But you know, that everyone watches that.

[1:20:00] Rory O'Malley: That everyone watches.

[1:20:01] Barrett Foa: I mean, tell me about it.

[1:20:02] Barrett Foa: It's not everyone, but I mean, like, it's one of the top-rated shows.

[1:20:06] Barrett Foa: But also, CBS doesn't really want to share you all.

[1:20:09] Rory O'Malley: Sure.

[1:20:09] Barrett Foa: I mean, they technically are contractually obligated to, but they can also be like, no, or that or that's on the same night, or it conflicts with this way, or we can't figure it out schedule-wise.

[1:20:21] Barrett Foa: It's just like a little difficult, even though there are ways around it.

[1:20:27] Barrett Foa: And um, again, in the hiatus, it can happen, but it's a little difficult to fit something in and you know, in this like tiny little and you also want to like just take a, you want to chill out, just when you're not under lock and key in a work environment, you want to be able to just be free.

[1:20:44] Rory O'Malley: Yes.

[1:20:44] Barrett Foa: Now I I've done that, and then also I get itchy and I do theater.

[1:20:48] Rory O'Malley: Sure.

[1:20:49] Barrett Foa: So I did, I played Harold Hill in the Music Man.

[1:20:54] Rory O'Malley: Oh yeah.

[1:20:55] Barrett Foa: Up in Connecticut.

[1:20:57] Rory O'Malley: That's right.

[1:20:57] Barrett Foa: Uh Connecticut rap.

[1:20:59] Barrett Foa: And I had so much fun.

[1:21:02] Barrett Foa: Yeah.

[1:21:03] Barrett Foa: Um I had one of my best friends from college play Marion.

[1:21:08] Barrett Foa: It was, we just had a blast.

[1:21:09] Rory O'Malley: You did Buyer and Cellar.

[1:21:10] Barrett Foa: I did Buyer and Cellar.

[1:21:11] Rory O'Malley: I saw you in that.

[1:21:11] Rory O'Malley: You were wonderful.

[1:21:12] Barrett Foa: Thank you.

[1:21:13] Rory O'Malley: I've seen you do a lot of plays.

[1:21:14] Rory O'Malley: Didn't you also, this is like back after college.

[1:21:17] Rory O'Malley: Didn't you do Bye Bye Birdie?

[1:21:20] Barrett Foa: Yeah.

[1:21:21] Barrett Foa: I saw you do it.

[1:21:21] Rory O'Malley: In Cleveland.

[1:21:22] Barrett Foa: In Cleveland.

[1:21:23] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[1:21:23] Rory O'Malley: Cause who else was in it?

[1:21:24] Barrett Foa: Celia.

[1:21:25] Rory O'Malley: Celia.

[1:21:26] Barrett Foa: Um, my friend Beth Crosby.

[1:21:27] Rory O'Malley: Beth Crosby.

[1:21:28] Barrett Foa: There were some other people.

[1:21:29] Barrett Foa: Aaron Lazar.

[1:21:30] Rory O'Malley: Aaron Lazar was in it.

[1:21:32] Barrett Foa: Justin Brill.

[1:21:33] Rory O'Malley: Justin Brill.

[1:21:33] Barrett Foa: Just from Bohan.

[1:21:35] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[1:21:36] Barrett Foa: Um Enrico Rodriguez.

[1:21:39] Rory O'Malley: Wow.

[1:21:39] Barrett Foa: Um Tony Yazbeck.

[1:21:42] Rory O'Malley: Really?

[1:21:43] Barrett Foa: Uh-huh.

[1:21:44] Barrett Foa: Cause we did, sorry, we did West Side Story and Bye Bye Birdie.

[1:21:47] Barrett Foa: I think he might have been only in West Side Story.

[1:21:48] Rory O'Malley: But Rue McClanahan.

[1:21:50] Barrett Foa: Oh yeah.

[1:21:50] Rory O'Malley: Oh no, no.

[1:21:52] Rory O'Malley: I know.

[1:21:52] Barrett Foa: I know.

[1:21:53] Barrett Foa: Yeah.

[1:21:54] Barrett Foa: Played the mom in that.

[1:21:55] Barrett Foa: And that was, so we did it in Cleveland and Pittsburgh Civilized Opera and it was like a co-production.

[1:22:01] Barrett Foa: And I almost missed my senior showcase for it.

[1:22:05] Rory O'Malley: Wow.

[1:22:05] Barrett Foa: Um, but it was so fun to do.

[1:22:10] Rory O'Malley: Wow.

[1:22:10] Barrett Foa: We had a Golden Girl on stage with you.

[1:22:12] Rory O'Malley: Hello.

[1:22:13] Barrett Foa: Yeah, and we like, during the last number, she would slow dance with the chorus boys.

[1:22:20] Rory O'Malley: Oh really?

[1:22:20] Barrett Foa: Uh, the Rosie, whatever.

[1:22:24] Barrett Foa: She would, uh, well the last song was going on, she would, and in her fur coat, 'cause that character always wore that fur coat.

[1:22:30] Barrett Foa: I was like, I just, uh, I just slow danced with Rue McClanahan.

[1:22:33] Rory O'Malley: Pretty cool.

[1:22:34] Barrett Foa: That's amazing.

[1:22:36] Barrett Foa: Um gosh, wow, memories.

[1:22:39] Rory O'Malley: Memories.

[1:22:40] Barrett Foa: I just saw Aaron Lazar last night at Rockwell. We were roommates at Pittsburgh Civic Light Opera.

[1:22:45] Rory O'Malley: Wow.

[1:22:46] Barrett Foa: Um God, that guy can sing.

[1:22:50] Rory O'Malley: Yes, he can.

[1:22:51] Barrett Foa: Yes, I wish I could see that voice.

[1:22:53] Rory O'Malley: Don't you think it's kind of, it's funny because we're about the same age.

[1:22:58] Rory O'Malley: We got started the same time in the same kind of like pockets of people in New York and out here in LA.

[1:23:06] Rory O'Malley: I feel like right now, and maybe it's just because I'm in Hamilton with all these young children.

[1:23:12] Rory O'Malley: I feel like it's the first time though that I can like look back at all the things that I've gotten to be a part of and the groups of people that I've gotten to be with and just have this real gratitude and excitement about knowing how much more there is to do and to grow, but like I think also like having this podcast and talking to people and like sitting down, it gives me this perspective.

[1:23:34] Rory O'Malley: Like, I can't believe that when I was in Spelling Bee with you that it was already like 10, how many years ago now?

[1:23:45] Barrett Foa: It was 2006.

[1:23:47] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, it's 11 years ago.

[1:23:48] Barrett Foa: 11 years ago.

[1:23:49] Rory O'Malley: It doesn't feel like 11 years ago.

[1:23:52] Barrett Foa: But on the other side of that, we've gotten to do so many great things in that period of time.

[1:23:57] Rory O'Malley: And I don't know.

[1:23:58] Rory O'Malley: I don't know what I'm saying.

[1:23:59] Rory O'Malley: It's just, I guess I haven't gotten to talk to too many people from that period of time, other than like my buddy Josh Gad.

[1:24:07] Barrett Foa: Um does it, does it like freak you out, or does it like give you joy?

[1:24:14] Rory O'Malley: Like, what does it do to you when you think about that?

[1:24:19] Barrett Foa: It feels, um, it feels to me, it feels, it feels, I think it's a little, I think it's a little different.

[1:24:29] Barrett Foa: Yeah, not, I wonder if we're going through different things slightly because I feel like as you were saying that I was thinking of all the things that you've done.

[1:24:37] Barrett Foa: So Book of Mormon, you have a Tony nomination, you, I just saw Little Miss Sunshine on the plane, and I was thinking about you.

[1:24:45] Barrett Foa: I never, I didn't get to see that production at Second Stage, was it?

[1:24:48] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, but I was like, oh my god, I forgot there was a musical version of this, and Rory played the Steve Carell role, right?

[1:24:53] Barrett Foa: Yeah, yeah.

[1:24:54] Barrett Foa: And I was just thinking about those are only the things that I kind of know and Hamilton and um, I'm sure I'm missing a zillion things, but you got married, you know, all of these things, and like life has kind of gone by, and like for me, yes, I have had relationships and I've done Buyer and Cellar, and I did Music Man, and I did a cabaret show, and my mom died, and like crazy things, life happened.

[1:25:20] Barrett Foa: But as for work, kind of I had this like really long steady thing, right?

[1:25:20] Barrett Foa: Which is NCIS: LA, which as an actor who's used to going from show to show to show to role to role, different authors, different teams, different rooms, different friends, because gathering all those people around you, yeah, and having that community and yeah, you've been away from it.

[1:25:46] Rory O'Malley: I've been away from that.

[1:25:48] Barrett Foa: And as much as like we are a family at NCIS: LA, it's not the same kind of bond you form in these rooms, and you know, I like to say like in each show, you kind of have like one or two people where you're like, you're gonna be my actual friend outside of the show.

[1:26:07] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[1:26:07] Barrett Foa: And you kind of gather these lovely people from all these things, but I haven't been doing that.

[1:26:12] Barrett Foa: It's like, it's hard to find a community out here.

[1:26:15] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[1:26:16] Barrett Foa: Um, the, you know, everyone on the show is married or you know, um paired off, and you know, they go home to their households and their kids, and um, I had that for a while, but um, I don't know if I mentioned this, but I'm single.

[1:26:37] Rory O'Malley: No.

[1:26:38] Barrett Foa: Uh, but you know, so it's just, it's a little bit, it's, but you're single, like you have, you're single, but you seem to me like maybe you're making that choice to be single.

[1:26:54] Rory O'Malley: I mean, I'm just saying, like sometimes people are like, oh, I'm single.

[1:26:59] Barrett Foa: Well, fair.

[1:27:00] Rory O'Malley: If you really wanted to have a relationship right now, you could have one, but you maybe you're wiser than that, and you're just like, I'm waiting for something that's a lot more meaningful, or sure.

[1:27:13] Barrett Foa: I mean, I guess I couldn't.

[1:27:14] Barrett Foa: So you know, I guess, you know, standards about it.

[1:27:17] Barrett Foa: Like someone who lives in a gutter somewhere.

[1:27:19] Rory O'Malley: I don't know, like, but uh, I have you checked the gutters?

[1:27:23] Barrett Foa: I don't know.

[1:27:24] Barrett Foa: They're pretty handsome in LA.

[1:27:26] Barrett Foa: Dude's out there.

[1:27:28] Rory O'Malley: Um, so I don't know.

[1:27:33] Barrett Foa: I just, yeah, sure.

[1:27:35] Barrett Foa: I mean, but I, it's kind of, it's hard, it's been harder than I thought.

[1:27:40] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[1:27:41] Barrett Foa: Um I lately, like since my last relationship, I, we're now working on some personal stuff, but like I haven't, when I moved to LA, I kind of had like these um serial, uh not as like a serial monogamous.

[1:27:56] Barrett Foa: I was kind of going from relationship to like a two-year, a six months later to a two-year relationship to a three and a half year relationship where we like bought a house together and there was like six months in between each one, and I was like going from one to one to one.

[1:28:06] Barrett Foa: And then again, like I think I gave myself a break because like at the end of my last one, then my mom was ill, and I was going back and forth, and I wasn't in one city really, and I was very much like spread out and floaty and unmoored.

[1:28:25] Barrett Foa: And now that I'm kind of back and in LA, I'm like, okay, alright.

[1:28:32] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, already.

[1:28:33] Barrett Foa: Right.

[1:28:34] Barrett Foa: And I think I'm putting that out there.

[1:28:37] Rory O'Malley: Well, you have on this podcast.

[1:28:38] Barrett Foa: Let's get it.

[1:28:40] Barrett Foa: This is an ad.

[1:28:41] Barrett Foa: This is the only real reason why I did this.

[1:28:42] Rory O'Malley: Okay, good.

[1:28:43] Barrett Foa: I don't really like you.

[1:28:44] Rory O'Malley: I'll send all the submissions directly to you.

[1:28:46] Barrett Foa: I know, you're just, you're just using me.

[1:28:48] Rory O'Malley: I'm just using it for a dating service.

[1:28:50] Barrett Foa: It's a lot of people do that.

[1:28:51] Rory O'Malley: It's less expensive than paying for OKCupid.

[1:28:54] Barrett Foa: That's true.

[1:28:54] Barrett Foa: Yeah, it's expensive every month.

[1:28:56] Rory O'Malley: I think it's true.

[1:28:57] Barrett Foa: It's five dollars for the premium.

[1:28:59] Rory O'Malley: Oh my god.

[1:29:00] Barrett Foa: You don't know.

[1:29:01] Barrett Foa: You don't know about the app world.

[1:29:03] Rory O'Malley: I don't.

[1:29:03] Rory O'Malley: I don't know about the app world.

[1:29:05] Barrett Foa: Jill and I have been together for 10 years in April.

[1:29:08] Rory O'Malley: So it's like, yeah, it's crazy.

[1:29:11] Barrett Foa: I have not, I did not know about the app world until recently, until maybe a year or two ago.

[1:29:17] Rory O'Malley: It's a big thing.

[1:29:18] Barrett Foa: It's, I mean, we could get into a whole thing about that, but maybe that's not what this podcast is about.

[1:29:23] Barrett Foa: But I do think that though I recently have quit a lot of those apps, and um it is fascinating how much space has been created by not having some of that in my life.

[1:29:36] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, it's um, it's like, it's a, it's an addiction, it's a process addiction.

[1:29:42] Barrett Foa: Yeah, it, it's like Facebook or any social media.

[1:29:45] Rory O'Malley: I'm really talking about any, like any app, they pe, like there are scientists that design that, yeah, to get you to keep checking back, to keep looking for a notification to pop up to do, and whether you're into home blogs or, you know, sex or Candy Crush, or you can find it and it will keep sucking you back in.

[1:30:08] Barrett Foa: Yeah.

[1:30:09] Barrett Foa: I sometimes I just don't, I don't do anything on Instagram or Twitter for a couple weeks.

[1:30:16] Rory O'Malley: And it's nice to.

[1:30:18] Barrett Foa: Yeah.

[1:30:20] Barrett Foa: It makes me feel better.

[1:30:20] Barrett Foa: I just beat myself up.

[1:30:21] Rory O'Malley: Oh yeah.

[1:30:21] Barrett Foa: I just, I mean, this is welcome to my head.

[1:30:23] Barrett Foa: You know, I just beat myself up a lot, clearly.

[1:30:25] Rory O'Malley: I mean, you're hearing that.

[1:30:26] Barrett Foa: Yeah.

[1:30:26] Barrett Foa: I just, I have like a, because I think that I feel like I'm being stagnant.

[1:30:26] Barrett Foa: I feel like I'm doing this one thing and I'm not in the, I'm not in like the cool circles anymore.

[1:30:37] Rory O'Malley: And it's just, you know, like I used to, a lot less people knew who I was, but they were all people I respected and my friends and people in New York and Broadway in the circles that I loved and respected.

[1:30:48] Barrett Foa: Right.

[1:30:48] Barrett Foa: And now I'm like, okay, well, I'll go to a Midwestern airport and be stopped a bunch of times.

[1:30:56] Barrett Foa: Um, you know, to like, you know, because that's more my demographic.

[1:31:03] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[1:31:03] Barrett Foa: And um, an airport, people are standing in lines, and like it's easier to just say hi.

[1:31:08] Barrett Foa: Um, and I love it, but it's, it's like, oh well, who are you?

[1:31:11] Barrett Foa: Like, who are these people?

[1:31:12] Barrett Foa: Oh, I don't, and then I'm surprised.

[1:31:17] Barrett Foa: Hillary Clinton in her book said that after the election, she and Bill binge-watched Blue Bloods, Madam Secretary, and NCIS: Los Angeles, which quote unquote Bill insists is the best of the franchise.

[1:31:36] Rory O'Malley: There you go.

[1:31:37] Barrett Foa: I'm like, Hills.

[1:31:39] Barrett Foa: What else do you need?

[1:31:40] Rory O'Malley: Hill and Bill?

[1:31:41] Barrett Foa: They watch me to unwind.

[1:31:45] Rory O'Malley: That's called Living the Dream, Barrett.

[1:31:47] Barrett Foa: Oh my god.

[1:31:48] Barrett Foa: So I'll take that.

[1:31:49] Rory O'Malley: You should end on that.

[1:31:51] Barrett Foa: Yeah, we're gonna end on that.

[1:31:52] Barrett Foa: Um, thank you so much for doing this.

[1:31:54] Rory O'Malley: Thank you so much.

[1:31:55] Barrett Foa: It was just nice to get to sit down.

[1:31:56] Rory O'Malley: We'll do part two tomorrow, scummy.

[1:31:58] Barrett Foa: Great.

[1:31:58] Rory O'Malley: Yep.

[1:31:59] Rory O'Malley: See you tomorrow.

[1:32:01] Barrett Foa: Audition side job, swim upstream.

[1:32:04] Barrett Foa: Believe it or not, you'll live in the dream.