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[0:00] Rory O'Malley: You're listening to episode number 76 of Living the Dream with Rory O'Malley.

[0:05] Rory O'Malley: Audition, side job, swimming upstream. Believe it or not, you're living the dream.

[0:12] Rory O'Malley: Hello, dreamers. Welcome to Living the Dream. My name is Rory O'Malley. I am your host for Living the Dream. Thank you so much for downloading and listening. If you like the podcast, you know what to do. Review us, rate us, talk to us, talk to us, talk about us, talk to us, all of the above. Let everyone know the conversation we're having here on the podcast, talking to actors about the ups and downs in this crazy business we call show.

[0:41] Rory O'Malley: Today I'm talking to Jared Gertner, a very good friend of mine who I've known for so long. Since we were in college, really. He went to NYU when I went to Carnegie Mellon, but he was roommates with a very good friend of mine, Greg Cada, who is a performer and teacher. He is my friend from high school and ended up being roommates with Jared at NYU. I used to go visit them at NYU and sleep on their floor and see Broadway shows when I was a freshman in college and couldn't afford to go anywhere else to stay in New York.

[1:21] Rory O'Malley: So I have known Jared for years, and our paths have crossed multiple times through SPELLING BEE and The Book of Mormon. He is now in Los Angeles. He's also married and has a son. I had some news this week that makes it even more appropriate that I'm talking to Jared this week. Gerald and I have adopted a baby boy. And I cannot tell you how happy I am to say that on this podcast because for two years now I have been in the process with Gerald to adopt this baby.

[2:00] Rory O'Malley: And you probably can hear Gerald in the background. He's talking to my mom who is here visiting. They are talking about feeding baby Jimmy. These are all the most wonderful sounds I've ever heard in my life. Even the baby crying is just absolutely thrilling. We have wanted this since the moment we started dating, really. We talked about adopting a kid, not together right away, but that this was what we wanted in our lives, and I'm just so over the moon with this perfect little baby boy that we have.

[2:36] Rory O'Malley: He is amazing, and we are so grateful to our family and friends who have been with us along the way because it was not an easy journey. It had a lot of ups and downs, and we're just so glad that it led us to this wonderful, wonderful boy. Jared and his husband Jeffrey have a son and have been really just like leaders in the in gay men having kids to me and to Gerald. I was so excited to get to sit down and talk with him and ask him about being a dad.

[3:15] Rory O'Malley: So it's fun. I'm not very good with words right now. I haven't been having a lot of sleep. That is one thing that happens when you have a kid, but I've never been happier to be completely exhausted and disgusting. I have spit up on me right now. I've tried to get it out of the shirt, but it's just not working. Gonna throw this in the hamper. But I'm so happy. And now you're gonna hear a lot about me being a dad. And isn't that great?

[3:48] Rory O'Malley: All right. Here's my conversation with the actor and father, Jared Gertner.

[3:55] Rory O'Malley: Hi Jared, welcome to Living the Dream.

[3:57] Jared Gertner: Hi, Rory, thank you. I just saw you yesterday. We got to hang out with your students that you have this amazing workshop that you have out here in Los Angeles. What's it called again?

[4:10] Jared Gertner: But it doesn't really have a name, it's just Jared Gertner.

[4:13] Rory O'Malley: Well, they did come study with Jared Gertner, but I want you to be my special guest for every class. You were so inspiring and smart and practical about the things you told them.

[4:22] Jared Gertner: Well, and you know, I'm good at those things now, especially after every week talking to an actor about the business and life. You know, I basically like, oh, I've got the greatest hits of what everyone has told me how they get through things in this industry.

[4:37] Jared Gertner: Well, I do this five-week workshop with kids. So they're like 14 to 22 years old, and I do vocal performance and acting through song, telling story through song. And on the fifth week, I always invite guests. And I like to invite my fancy friends into the class because the kids love it, but I'm also really specific about who I invite because I don't want people coming in there, you know, like Debbie Allen, like banging the stick. You want fame? I want people who come from a place of gratitude and joy, and obviously you embody all that, which is why I've been trying to get you for a while. So I'm so glad you were able to come to this one.

[5:14] Jared Gertner: Oh, yeah, no, it worked out. It was a little crazy timing because of the surprise that we had this month of little baby Jimmy coming into our lives. So it was, I was at first I was like, Well, I don't know if I can do anything, but I was like, no, no, I can get out of the house and this will be really nice to go and talk with folks.

[5:40] Jared Gertner: But it was so appropriate to get to see you because you and your husband have a how old is Augie now?

[5:47] Rory O'Malley: Augie's gonna be four next month.

[5:50] Jared Gertner: Oh my gosh, four next month. I was just waiting for you to cancel on class yesterday because when Augie was first born, I canceled everything for like that. We barely left the house.

[6:01] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, yeah. No, I think that I've only left the house one other time without him. But we've got a lot of people here. My mom's been here, Gerald and his mom. So we've had four on one at T.

[6:17] Jared Gertner: You are so lucky to have that. My family's all back east.

[6:21] Rory O'Malley: Yeah. No, we basically this is my mom's first grandkid. So she, you know, the plan was that she was just gonna basically move in. I'm actually in where I in the room where I always record podcasts, but now it's her room.

[6:35] Jared Gertner: So she's just like sitting there next to you filing her next.

[6:38] Rory O'Malley: She literally, while I was just talking to you just now, snuck in and grabbed something and just was like, I'm sorry, I'm gonna grab something and she just left out.

[6:47] Jared Gertner: Snuck out.

[6:49] Rory O'Malley: But yeah, no, it's so great to have help, and that means that I can like get away for an hour or two if I need to. But I'll tell you, it's kind of hard. Like I don't want to be away.

[7:00] Jared Gertner: I don't want to be away from him.

[7:07] Rory O'Malley: And that's wait till you have to go out of town for a couple weeks. It's torture.

[7:12] Jared Gertner: Yeah, I can only imagine. And that's the thing is that in our business, we don't really get to decide when we go out of town or not. We have to follow the work.

[7:23] Rory O'Malley: So how have you gotten through parenthood when you have to face decisions like going out of town or work or auditions?

[7:23] Jared Gertner: Yeah, I mean it's not our business isn't really conducive to having a family. Lots of people figure it out. We all figure it out, but it's definitely not easy. One of the main things is having a partner who can be more stable, having somebody who can, I mean, I'm really lucky because my husband is just the most selfless giving, wonderful person in the world, and he is able to sort of provide a constant foundation here so that I can go away periodically.

[8:04] Jared Gertner: That being said, I've completely changed what kind of jobs I'll go out of town for. So I've turned down work, I've turned down auditions. I turned down this incredible thing that was being written for me at a great theater, and I couldn't do it because I couldn't afford to bring my family for I think it was like 10 weeks or something, and I wouldn't be away longer.

[8:27] Jared Gertner: So we kind of set a rule that I won't be away for longer than four weeks. And if it is longer than four weeks, then we have to weigh the job and the paycheck and the opportunity with what's going on here so that we know if it's worth moving our family or not. It's wild, and you know, I was one of those lucky actors who from like 2003 to 2016 or something, I only acted. I never had to do like survival jobs or whatever. I was able to go from job to job.

[9:02] Jared Gertner: But part of that is I was able to take anything. So I would take a job and go, you know, help friends open a theater company for not a lot of money or whatever. And I would go take any job because I just wanted to keep working. And now as a family man, I have to sort of change my perspective on that. So I definitely limit how far I'll go, how long I'll go away for and that makes it a little trickier.

[9:30] Rory O'Malley: Yeah. I mean I'm definitely realizing that you have to definitely be pickier on what comes your way and it's not just what jobs you get, it's the auditions that you pour your time into. I had like two auditions the first week that we had the baby here and I did one because I needed to. I was like, oh no, this one I really need to do. It would be here and I would need to do it.

[10:00] Jared Gertner: And the other one I was like, well, this is something that's gonna be in Arkansas or somewhere else. I can't really imagine myself going that far away for that long.

[10:12] Jared Gertner: Yeah, I've had to pass on a bunch of auditions because that's the thing is there's a theory I think when you're younger just audition for everything, audition for everything, audition for everything. And as you get older, you start to be a little more selective and I especially with a kid I just pass on certain auditions because I know that if I put myself through it and then I get the job, I'm just gonna, it's gonna hurt me to turn it down.

[10:37] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[10:38] Jared Gertner: Yeah. So I've definitely had a lot of back and forth with my agent being like, are you sure you can't go in for this one? And that's, yeah, I can't go spend twelve weeks in Connecticut right now or whatever it is.

[10:49] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[10:50] Jared Gertner: And also it's if you know that the amount of time it takes to put the audition together, you're like, I if I don't have the energy or time to put the couple of hours that it will take to get this on tape or to go into this audition, I certainly don't have the 12 weeks. So it's kind of a good tell. You know, like if you can't find the time to make that audition, that's for me like when I get an audition and I'm like I can do this in an hour and it'll come very easy to me then I know that it's something that I have to do.

[11:28] Jared Gertner: But if it's something that I'm like, oh my God, I can't even memorize these lines. There are things that I haven't had the time to do and I've been like I gotta get my kid to school and I got this and I got that but the role is like whatever it takes I'm gonna put myself on tape for this. Even though it's gonna take a lot of time and it feels impossible because there are, it's just like it's a constant conversation between you and your partner and it's a constant conversation with yourself about what you're willing to do, what you're able to do and what you want to do.

[12:04] Rory O'Malley: So we're both out here in California, but we have uh and it's great. We love living in LA but we both had different paths of how we got out here. You started out in New Jersey, right?

[12:18] Jared Gertner: Yeah, I was born in New Jersey and raised there. And then I went to NYU at 18 and just sort of stayed in New York.

[12:27] Rory O'Malley: Right. Which is where we first met each other when you were a freshman at NYU. And your roommate was my friend from high school, Greg Cada.

[12:36] Jared Gertner: Yeah, yeah. Well, I think it's sophomore year is when Greg and I started living together.

[12:40] Rory O'Malley: Oh, is it?

[12:41] Jared Gertner: Yeah. I mean, Greg and I became friends very, very quickly. So we probably met freshman year, but sophomore year when we started living together because Greg and I lived together sophomore junior and senior year.

[12:50] Rory O'Malley: I see. Is when you started visiting.

[12:52] Jared Gertner: I see. So that's when so I must have been a freshman in college and just coming to stay with you guys when I was living in Pittsburgh.

[13:00] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, when you were at Carmelon.

[13:02] Jared Gertner: Oh, okay. Okay. So yeah, I used to sleep on your floor when I would come to visit New York City, and you guys would tell me all the cool shows to go see.

[13:10] Rory O'Malley: Isn't that fun?

[13:11] Jared Gertner: It was always your good man Charlie Brown.

[13:13] Rory O'Malley: Yes.

[13:13] Jared Gertner: That was a big hit. What show did I see?

[13:15] Rory O'Malley: Just your good man Charlie Brown.

[13:17] Jared Gertner: With some some uh new woman named Kristen Chenoweth.

[13:21] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, whatever happened to her.

[13:23] Jared Gertner: But it is it's funny. That was 1999, 2000, and um I remember that you guys were just such big fans of that show, so I went to go see it and clearly saw why you guys were such big fans. And we've talked about that show a lot on this podcast because Alana Levine, she has her podcast, and I've had her on as a guest. And she's yeah, it comes up a lot.

[13:42] Rory O'Malley: And then I was doing the um reading with you, and you were Snoopy. This is uh three weeks ago now, a month ago. The time has really changed since we we I've had a b a surprise baby come into the picture. But you just absolutely tore the house down with your rendition of Suppertime playing Snoopy.

[14:04] Jared Gertner: Oh, you were super. One of the most fun nights I've had. I feel like in LA we don't get as much of a chance to do readings and workshops and demos and concert. All the things that in New York you're spending all your time doing. So anytime something like that pops up and you get to like play with amazing people like Blue and Barrett Foa and Carly Hughes and Tracy Toms and Doug Krieger. It was just such a great group. And we we got to like so I I felt like I was back in New York for a night. And I loved it.

[14:34] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, no, it was fun. And it was especially because we all met each other in New York. So it's always fun when you get it feels like a class reunion or something, even though we all didn't go to college together because we really did kind of make our get our start together. A lot of us in SPELLING BEE.

[14:50] Jared Gertner: Yeah.

[14:50] Rory O'Malley: And uh it was a nice reunion of sorts.

[14:54] Jared Gertner: Indeed. But anyway, you were you were in NYU. You you so you grew up close to New York. Did you go to New York a lot as a kid?

[15:02] Jared Gertner: All the all the time, yeah. So I saw my first Broadway show when I was three. My parents took me to see Cats.

[15:08] Rory O'Malley: Oh my god, did they sneak you in or did they?

[15:10] Jared Gertner: No, no, they were able to there were a lot of kids at Cats. I think it's an okay show for kids because it's just it's very visual. Yeah, you know. Uh and I sat spellbound and um and they would take me to see a Bravo show every year for my birthday. Every year because that was once I got old enough to choose what I wanted to do for my birthday. I'm born December 27th, so there was very rarely an option for a party because everyone everyone was away for Christmas.

[15:35] Rory O'Malley: I'm December 23rd, I get it.

[15:37] Jared Gertner: I know, so is my son.

[15:38] Rory O'Malley: That's right. You guys are uh so we uh so I would go see Broadway shows with my family every year on my birthday, and we'd go probably a couple times a year, other than that. So I would say my whole life I was seeing at least three Broadway shows a year, and I my cousin had danced on my cousin danced on Broadway in the 80s and uh early 90s. And so it was it was very much in the in my world. I started auditioning for some professional theater as 11, 12, 13 year old and I was working at Paper Mill Playhouse when I was 14 and that sort of thing. So it was it was very much um very much in my the whole Broadway thing was very much in my sights from the beginning.

[16:15] Rory O'Malley: So that you said something yesterday when we were talking to the class that NYU was the only school that you um auditioned for or that you wanted to go to.

[16:25] Jared Gertner: So that's really because you wanted to stay where you were my parents hated that.

[16:29] Rory O'Malley: Well I yeah I didn't want to go away from family and I also thought if I'm going to study musical theater and I've been going into New York all the all this time to see Broadway shows that just seemed like that's where it needs to be I used to I used to walk down the street with my with my family after seeing shows and I would see everybody walking around in those Broadway show jackets.

[16:44] Jared Gertner: Right.

[16:45] Rory O'Malley: You remember the old Broadway show jackets with the leather sleeves and the big show logo on the back.

[16:49] Jared Gertner: Yeah.

[16:50] Rory O'Malley: And I said when I am older I'm gonna walk down the street in one of those Broadway show jackets. I'm gonna have one sadly by the time I made it to Broadway nobody was wearing those jackets anymore. So like my I have like I have like a windbreaker and like a cool track jacket from a Broadway show but I don't have any I don't have one of those old school Broadway jackets.

[17:07] Jared Gertner: Yeah what happened to those I feel like it's not really in style to be in the show and to be wearing wearing the logo at all.

[17:14] Rory O'Malley: Yeah like we we got SPELLING BEE jackets and it just said like spelling bee real small on the on the uh on the arm.

[17:20] Jared Gertner: Yeah.

[17:20] Rory O'Malley: So it was like it was like I'm in SPELLING BEE instead of I'm in SPELLING BEE.

[17:24] Jared Gertner: Right.

[17:25] Rory O'Malley: Yeah I mean I guess I I mean there's the we had some like Hamilton uh stuff that also had like the little star on it. But like a lot of the even the merchandise kind of has that, like the the sweatshirts with just like a little star. So it's the I think the merchandise is more about like little lines like there's that great Mormon show jacket that's just or uh sweatshirt that just says I believe on it.

[17:46] Jared Gertner: Right.

[17:46] Rory O'Malley: And then it says Book of Mormon really small. It's more about a reference to the show than it is about uh the actual title of the show.

[17:53] Jared Gertner: Right. Anyway, we just got our onesie that says new recruit from the from the producers of Book of Mormon, which is so cute. But but yeah, I only applied to NYU because that I I had my sights set on that school from the time I was 12. And I my my parents, I mean, it is killing them that I was only applying to one school. Um they want me that they well, they were wanted me to go to school in New Jersey because I could have gone to school for free, probably in New Jersey, and instead I wanted to go to one of the most expensive college there. And um and it was I I don't know, it was the only place I wanted to go.

[18:27] Jared Gertner: So I my deal with them was I will apply to two other schools and hold the applications at home and I'll apply early decision to NYU. And if I get in, I'll throw away those applications. And if I don't, I'll send them out. So on December 22nd, uh I got my I remember I got my uh acceptance to NYU. I remember because it was my best friend Ray's birthday, and I called him and said, Happy birthday, I got into NYU. And I threw away the other two applications.

[18:53] Rory O'Malley: Wow.

[18:54] Jared Gertner: I love that you called Ray and you said, Happy birthday, I got into NYU.

[18:58] Rory O'Malley: I led with happy birthday.

[19:00] Jared Gertner: I led with happy birthday.

[19:01] Rory O'Malley: I mean, at least I said that first, right?

[19:03] Jared Gertner: He was like, Thank you.

[19:06] Rory O'Malley: Thank you and congrats, I guess.

[19:10] Jared Gertner: No, that's awesome. And I mean, it's kind of rare to be 18 years old and know what you want to do and where you want to do it. It's you know, like a lot of people, they know they want to go into theater, but they don't I I mean, I didn't know because I didn't well, one, I didn't know where I would get into, and I was very fearful, but it must have been a really good feeling to know where you wanted to go and be that's the only thing you want, and then get in.

[19:36] Jared Gertner: It was. I remember in March or April when I um when all my friends senior year of high school were stressing out about where they were gonna go to school and where they were gonna get into it, and I already knew. And then people were like, I don't know what I'm gonna study, I don't have to declare a major until sophomore year. And I was like, I know what I'm studying.

[19:51] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[19:52] Jared Gertner: I was I was always super sort of hyper focused in that way.

[19:56] Rory O'Malley: Um and you're a very organized person.

[20:01] Jared Gertner: I well, I was more so before I became a dad, but yes, I I think so. I I have my priorities in in line and I I always keep my I have like a laser focus on what I want and I I go after it hard. And I I think that I I've always sort of tried to have a lot of self-belief, which I guess is different than arrogance, because it's not like I'm awesome. It's just I know that I can do it. I know that I have something to offer. And I I think that that kind of drove me through that that whole process of applying to schools, going to school, graduating, and then starting in the business.

[20:31] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[20:32] Jared Gertner: Yeah. I mean, it it definitely it it's very important, especially when you start to have that kind of self-belief because it's one of those things where your parents can't even really give that to you. You know, your parents can't say, oh, this is gonna work out, this is great. I mean, some parents can, but but it it's so unknown to everyone.

[20:51] Rory O'Malley: Um how many schools did you apply to?

[20:53] Jared Gertner: I don't even know. I don't know. Because but I went to I went to to St. Ignatius High School and there was a um a uh college counseling program. So everyone had to apply to multiple colleges. I mean, that I apply to, I would say at least five to eight.

[21:16] Jared Gertner: Um, and I probably only got into four. And um, but but I went as soon as I got into Carnegie Mellon, I was like, oh, this is where I want to go. But luckily, because I had applied to a couple of other schools and they gave me money, that's the only reason I could afford to go to Carnegie Mellon because they matched the um scholarships I got from another school. So it's always beneficial to um to kind of let other your college know what other colleges you got into, because sometimes they don't want you to go to that other college. They get jealous.

[21:48] Rory O'Malley: But NYU is probably like we're NYU is like, we don't care.

[21:53] Jared Gertner: Yeah, give it your mind.

[21:54] Rory O'Malley: Take it or leave it.

[21:55] Jared Gertner: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I I get that. I think that Carnegie Mellon is kind of like a smaller school and uh university wise. So it's a little bit you said something so smart though to my students yesterday, which was it doesn't really matter where you go to school because you can get a great education in a lot of different programs and you will get what you put into a program. Don't like stress like there's only one school for me, like know that you can get in and get it have an amazing career from many different schools.

[22:22] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[22:23] Jared Gertner: It's really smart because you do. I I mean, I I just always knew that I wanted NYU and it it proved to be exactly what I wanted it to be. I got everything I wanted out of it. But I I have lots of friends who went to NYU who didn't feel that way who felt like they didn't get everything they wanted out of that school. So But that's up to you. I I firmly believe that that's because you said you you knew what you wanted to get out of it, so you got it. And I think that if you go to a school and you don't know what you want to get out of it, and you expect them to kind of just give you uh direction and and you know, then you're gonna be lost because it's just that that's the way of the world. The world does not just like hand you everything on a platter um in a in a program, you know, it'd be so nice if it did, though, wouldn't it?

[23:10] Rory O'Malley: It would be great.

[23:11] Jared Gertner: It would be so good.

[23:13] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[23:13] Jared Gertner: I mean, it's that's the thing is that as soon as you get out of school, even you know, any school you go to, you can leave saying, like, oh, you know, they didn't do this and they didn't prepare us for this, or they didn't, you know, we didn't have um this class or that, and we could could have been, you know, a lot more prepared. Well, when you get out into the real world, there's no one handing you anything, not preparing you for squat. So you're kind of just like thrown to the wolves. And so I think that it really is up to the individual at a school to get the most out of that. And I've realized that no, it doesn't matter what school you go to if that's how you operate, if you kind of make your own path and and find ways to educate yourself, because I've worked with and we both have worked with people from every school that has an a theater education program, and people who didn't go to school, and I would say or went to school for something totally different, exactly.

[24:14] Jared Gertner: So there's a lot of different paths to get to the same place that we're, you know, we tried to go. And I think that there's this false sense of security when you're 18 years old, that there's a sure thing if you get into NYU or Carnegie Mellon or one of these schools, then you'll definitely get to be on Broadway. Yes, those schools are great, and they will give you the opportunity to have a lot of tools and refine your tools, but man, if you think that there's any guarantee, you're in for a rude awakening come graduation day.

[24:46] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, well, it is interesting though, because I remember sitting in school and they tell you, look, all your teachers and all the programs will say, "It's hard, it's really hard, it's going to be tough. Be prepared for it to be tough." And you're all sitting there at 18, 19 years old, nodding your head like, "Oh yeah, I know, I know." But secretly you're saying, "But not for me. It's gonna be great for me."

[25:04] Jared Gertner: Yes. And then you graduate, and you're like, "Oh crap, it's hard."

[25:08] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[25:08] Jared Gertner: Yeah, no, I totally agree. I remember, I think I've told this story on the podcast before, but there was a showcase out in Los Angeles, and there was a former graduate from Carnegie Mellon who talked about his career, but also talked about this nonprofit that he started that worked with the homeless. And I am so ashamed of the fact that my thought was at 22, "Oh, I feel bad for him. You know, clearly things didn't work out for him, and he's got this thing, and that's really nice, but like he's not, you know, really working as much as an actor." Now, I don't even remember who that actor was, and I'm sure that he is out, you know, having a career as an actor, but here he was trying to tell these 22-year-old egomaniacs that we're about to go out into the world, like find a greater purpose, find something that will inspire you, and that will be your touchstone, that will ground you through this.

[26:08] Rory O'Malley: Well, you say that you were kind of quietly judging that, but it must have seeped into you somewhere because that's like exactly what you did in your career with probably impact. And I mean, you really have, I think, lived that life.

[26:22] Jared Gertner: Well, it takes a lot of failure to get to the point where you need to find something that satisfies you more than just getting the job. When you, you know, especially when you do get the job and you realize, "Oh, this isn't the only thing that's important to me in life." You know, it's scarier than when you don't get the job, and it's just disappointing. I think that kind of my story led me to a place where I realized in my mid-20s that I needed to find other ways to communicate with other human beings, you know. Like here I am on a podcast talking to you. And you know, it's always been important to me to find other outlets other than just being on a stage or acting.

[27:11] Rory O'Malley: I'm excited for you to see what it's like now to do what we do and have a kid because I think my fear when Augie was born is that I would go to every audition like, "Give me this job or my child will starve."

[27:25] Jared Gertner: Yeah.

[27:25] Rory O'Malley: That I would have this desperation about it. And it was totally the opposite. I started going to auditions and being like, "As soon as this is over, I get to go home to my son." And nothing here is as important as that. And so auditions started to feel less threatening and less important because the real joy, the real thing that it was all about was about getting home to be with my husband and my son and be a family.

[27:47] Jared Gertner: Yeah. And it made me better at auditioning, oddly. I think it changes your work too because you unlock parts of yourself. It's like a video game when you unlock secret worlds. You have little compartments of love in you that you didn't even know you had until you have this kid and you love it so much you want to like eat it.

[28:07] Rory O'Malley: A really weird way to put it.

[28:09] Jared Gertner: Yeah. I don't actually want to eat my children, that’s clear to your listeners. I just sometimes you just, you love them so much you feel like you want to hold them as tight as you can.

[28:18] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[28:18] Jared Gertner: No, no, no. And eat them when I was gonna say it. I want to eat him.

[28:21] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[28:22] Jared Gertner: My son is now twenty-two days old and he's just a little nugget that just eats, poops, and spits up and then goes to sleep.

[28:32] Rory O'Malley: It's Tucker's saying he eats poops.

[28:35] Jared Gertner: We are not feeding him his poops.

[28:38] Rory O'Malley: No, he, those are the only three things that he does in life right now. And I think he's a genius. I'm pretty sure.

[28:43] Jared Gertner: How come that changes? How come, you know, when we're young, when my son still, he's almost four, when he sneezes or farts, I'm like, "Awesome fart, buddy. Way to blow your nose."

[28:54] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[28:55] Jared Gertner: And nobody congratulates you for that kind of stuff.

[28:57] Rory O'Malley: That's true.

[28:58] Jared Gertner: I think we should bring that back. I want you to start congratulating me whenever I sneeze.

[29:01] Rory O'Malley: I congratulate myself, but um, okay, so you get out of college and NYU, you make the most of your four-year education there, and you go into the workforce of New York City. I always wonder, like when you work when you go to college and then at NYU and then you live in New York City, you don't have the crazy, you know, startle of what it means to live in New York. But do you a little bit when you're not in the, you know, the safety zone of a university or I've always felt really grateful for that, that I didn't have to finish school and then do the move to New York and figure New York out because I was already living and working there.

[29:42] Jared Gertner: I'm really grateful for that. There were little startles. Like I lived in the dorm straight up until I finished, and then I moved into an apartment also with our mutual friend Greg Cada. And things like buying your own toilet paper and garbage bags and not going down to the front desk to just get replacements and things like that, I think startled me. But largely no, I just felt super grateful for the fact that I already knew the city, I knew how the subway worked, I knew where everything was. I had a built-in network of friends who all did.

[30:08] Rory O'Malley: You guys live in that first apartment? Where was that?

[30:13] Jared Gertner: Oh god, it was 92nd Street between 2nd and 1st. It was not for us. We had gone from living on Union Square for three years to living on 92nd and first, and it was not our kind of neighborhood. I think I say to that apartment once, I think it was so small. Greg and I thought that because we had been roommates in college and shared a room, that we could share a room in our first apartment also. Because we just thought it's gonna be just like college.

[30:40] Rory O'Malley: It's not like college, you guys.

[30:42] Jared Gertner: When you graduate college, you have to get your own room.

[30:44] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[30:44] Jared Gertner: And our room that we got in this apartment, because we shared with another friend, Kim, and she had her own room. And then Greg shared a room that was, I'm gonna say eight feet by five feet. I mean, it was. I definitely stayed in this apartment, which is so hilarious. We each had a single bed, and at night, if I put my arm out to the center of the room, he could put his arm out and hold my hand. It was not good. And we both were like dating people at the time, and it was not ideal. It was fun. I look back on those times with a big smile and a lot of joy, but you need to have your own room when you graduate college, you just do.

[31:25] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, yeah. So you said that you started taking jobs that took you away from New York. Is that right?

[31:32] Jared Gertner: Yeah, I was away a lot. My first Broadway show was SPELLING BEE after doing it on the road for a year. But I was like, well, how old was I? Twenty-seven, I think, when I opened on Broadway in SPELLING BEE. So from 22 to 27, I did a couple children's theater tours. I worked all over the place, Cincinnati Playhouse in the Park, St. Louis Rep. I was working in regional theaters and then finally, you know, Broadway called.

[32:07] Rory O'Malley: Broadway called. And how did it call?

[32:10] Jared Gertner: Well, I was doing SPELLING BEE. So I actually told the story yesterday in class. I auditioned to do the track that you did in SPELLING BEE to cover Barfay, Panch, and Coney Bear when it was moving from Second Stage to Broadway. And that was the track, that was what Todd Bonapana ended up doing. Hi Todd. And I'm sure he's one of your listeners. Hi Todd. I hope so. Anyway, I auditioned for that. I probably, I think I had a few callbacks, and I had seen it at Second Stage right before it closed, and I said, "If I don't get this show, there's no show for me. This is it. I have to do this one." And then I didn't get it, and I was so upset. I thought, "This doesn't make any sense, but it's not like the show's going anywhere.

I'm just gonna stay on top of it." And I kept writing Tara Rubin's office, the casting director, saying, "Can I, you know, when you cast the tour, please remember me. I'm going out of town, but you can reach me at my agent's office. I'm back in town. If you have an audition for SPELLING BEE, please keep me in mind." I was a little bit obnoxious, but hopefully not too much. And then after a few more callbacks for different companies, they ended up casting me to do the San Francisco Company, which was the first company after Broadway. So we sat down in San Francisco and they hired me to play Barfay rather than to cover the three roles. So I think it all went the way it was supposed to.

[33:30] Rory O'Malley: So I was doing their show in San Francisco. We were there for seven months or something, which was amazing. And they sat us down and they told us the producers came out to see us and said, "We'd like to move the show to Boston. This company, let's just take the whole show and move it to Boston. And then we want you, once you finished your contract in Boston, we would like to move you to the Broadway company." And all of us were like, "Wait, what?" And I think one of the people in our show had been on Broadway at that point.

[34:02] Jared Gertner: Wow.

[34:03] Rory O'Malley: And no one else had. So we were basically all told in the lobby of our theater in San Francisco, "Stick with us, go to Boston, and then after that, we'll put you in the Broadway company."

[34:13] Jared Gertner: Wow. So I was expecting to come to be in Boston a little bit longer and then to come to the Broadway company, I think in April. We ended up closing on New Year's in Boston, and I got a call that week from the producers saying, "Josh Gad booked a movie. He's leaving the company on Broadway. We'd like you to come in in two weeks."

[34:35] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[34:35] Jared Gertner: I was in the show at that point when you came in.

[34:39] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, you were there.

[34:40] Jared Gertner: When Josh Gad books a movie or a TV show, I get a Broadway job. So he went off to shoot. I think that was when he shot 21. And so he went off to do that. And I went to Puerto Rico with a couple of cast members, just to at the end of Boston, just as a vacation, thinking that I had three weeks before I had to be abroad on Broadway. And I got back from Puerto Rico and I had a voicemail from Spook, our stage manager who passed away a couple years ago, who we all loved so much.

[35:14] Rory O'Malley: Oh, she was the best.

[35:14] Jared Gertner: She was the absolute best. And she left a message saying, "Hi, it's Jared, it's Spook. We need you to start soon. You're coming in to rehearse in two days, and you'll start the week after in performances." I mean, it was crazy. It all happened really, really fast. But what was cool about my debut in SPELLING BEE is it was Kids Night on Broadway. I don't know if you remember. Do you remember that Julie Andrews came?

[35:39] Rory O'Malley: Yes.

[35:41] Jared Gertner: So that was my first night. So Julie Andrews was the ambassador for Kids Night with her daughter, and they both came up as audience volunteers. So within five minutes of being on Broadway, I was sitting next to Julie Andrews on stage. And then they said we had to do like a curtain speech at the end to bring her back on stage to make a speech about Kids Night. And before the show, Spook said we need somebody to intro to do the curtain speech and introduce Julie Andrews, and Jose Lana was like, "Well, it should be Gertner, it's his debut, let's let him do it."

[36:14] Jared Gertner: So I got to make the curtain speech and bring her up on stage, and Broadway.com was there and a couple other press things. So we got to all we did like interviews after the show on stage and costume and pictures, which for those of you who don't know what it's like to do a uh uh to be a Broadway replacement, nobody else really cares. Like it's the biggest night for you, but everyone else is there to do their job, and then they go home. It's for you, you've made your Broadway debut for everyone else, they're just doing a show again that night.

[36:40] Yeah.

[36:41] Jared Gertner: So for me, I it kind of felt, and there was like a little reception thing afterwards. So for me, it felt like I had made my Broadway debut in a on like a big night, like we were opening or something because there was press and there was a reception, and it was all for you. It was all for me. Julie Andrews, all for me. I feel like SPELLING BEE, and we talked about this uh yesterday, was was a a a gateway for so many people to make their Broadway debut because it needed younger performers.

[37:11] It's amazing how many it needed weird people too.

[37:14] Yeah.

[37:14] Jared Gertner: People who maybe didn't fit into every other show. So well, character actors who were still in their 20s, you know, who if it hadn't been for SPELLING BEE, you know, I I don't think that I probably would have made a a Broadway debut. Well, at least until Mormon, you know, in my 30s. It it would have taken a lot longer if there wasn't this quirky show that needed comedic young actors.

[37:36] Yeah, I I feel the same way.

[37:37] Jared Gertner: And uh honestly, SPELLING BEE directly led to Mormon for me because um while I was doing SPELLING BEE, I got asked to do a reading for Ordinary Days because they were looking for you know, when you're in a Broadway show, they want to get you in in your in their readings because they can you have uh something in parentheses after your name. So all of a sudden getting calls to do readings you never got before. So I went and I did this reading of ordinary days, stuck with that, and the casting director for that when we eventually did it at roundabout was Carrie, who also cast Mormon.

[38:07] So when Mormon came around, she knew me well and they needed a standby and I was out of town and she went over and above to make sure that I got in, let me basically pick my audition time so that I could fly in, audition and fly right back out to go to another job I was doing in Detroit at the time.

[38:23] And sh I mean, I I owe a lot to her.

[38:27] Wow.

[38:27] Jared Gertner: Um so yeah, it kinda it's weird how like one job will lead to another job, which will lead to another job.

[38:32] Right.

[38:32] Rory O'Malley: Yeah. I mean, that you can definitely connect the dots going back. You can't forward, but you can going back. You can figure out, you know, oh, that's that happened because of that, which is what's, you know, you that's why you step through every door that's open to you, because you never know where it's gonna lead to.

[38:49] Yeah, totally.

[38:50] Jared Gertner: I think that I mean, that's why in my 20s, I told you I was like out of town all the time. I said yes to everything in my 20s. I said yes to every job.

[38:58] And well, almost all of them were really good experiences too.

[39:02] Jared Gertner: I just I wanted to keep working and meet people and just keep growing.

[39:06] Rory O'Malley: Well, I mean, that's the time to do it, you know, because you do, like you said, now you have to be more picky and and figure out what's best for you at the moment. You can't say yes to everything, so it's good that you had that time in your 20s to to do it all.

[39:20] So you were in SPELLING BEE, you have your Broadway debut, dream come true with Julie Andrews.

[39:27] Yeah.

[39:27] Jared Gertner: And you how long were you in the show?

[39:30] Rory O'Malley: How long of the run was it?

[39:31] Jared Gertner: A year. I I came in in January of 2007 and we closed in January of 2008.

[39:36] Wow.

[39:37] Rory O'Malley: And I'd already done it for one year prior to that.

[39:39] Right.

[39:41] Jared Gertner: Right. So you had about two years of of playing, playing the that great role. Where did you go after that?

[39:46] Rory O'Malley: Like what what did you feel like when you left that show? Was it easy or hard?

[39:51] Jared Gertner: Like when I left that show, because I now was on Broadway, that I was only gonna work on Broadway. It just it's it's a really I think a lot of people have that misconception that like once you start working on Broadway, that's just what you do. Once you cross that threshold, then you don't have to go back. And it turned out that wasn't it at all. I then went back and did a ton of regional theater uh between and then and I did um Ordinary Days off Broadway, and that was one of the most special things of my life.

[40:21] But it took three, I think exactly three years, right? 2008 to 2011, from when I we closed SPELLING BEE to when we started rehearsals for Mormon on Broadway.

[40:30] Wow.

[40:31] Jared Gertner: So three years. But so the first thing I did after that was Little Shop at Papermill Playhouse, um, which was really cool because I had gone, I had been a kid at Paper Mill Playhouse. I did Peter Pan there when I was 14. I did The River there when I was 17. They gave me a scholarship to college. So then I closed the Broadway show, my first Broadway show, and I get to go back and star in Little Shop as a grown-up at Paper Mill Playhouse, which felt like a like a real homecoming.

[40:57] And uh it was really, really special. Really special to get to do that.

[41:02] Rory O'Malley: And paper mills, like you've worked at paper mill. It's like working at the other side of the river.

[41:06] Yeah.

[41:06] Jared Gertner: Um huge theater.

[41:09] It's huge.

[41:09] Jared Gertner: And you, you know, you take the van from Manhattan from Manhattan to the floor.

[41:12] Oh yeah, the van.

[41:14] Rory O'Malley: Wait, I drove the van.

[41:16] Jared Gertner: I I drove well, Tally Sessions drove the van and I was his his alternate. You get I I can't remember. I think you get like a extra 10 bucks or something.

[41:25] You do, and I took I took an extra anything when I was I still do.

[41:30] Jared Gertner: Oh my god, I can't believe I drove that van. And we uh yeah, we had a couple couple near misses with that van. It's a huge passenger van. It probably seats like a dozen people, if if not more.

[41:44] And it it you par they park it on a garage on 43rd, so you uh all the actors gather on 43rd Street, you pick up the actors, and then you drive them to New Jersey, and then you come back.

[41:53] Yeah.

[41:54] Rory O'Malley: It's a really good system they've got going on.

[41:56] Jared Gertner: It's a great system unless something something went horribly wrong over there. I don't remember there was some kind of storm and people couldn't get there.

[42:03] Oh but we uh yes, I did I I did that and then Ordinary Day. We went out of town to do the first production of Ordinary Days right right after that, uh in Penn State, and um a year later is when we did ordinary days roundabout, and I was just sort of bouncing around.

[42:20] But during that time at that year, right after we closed spelling, but I also met Jeffrey, my husband, and so I was falling in love, and that was really great.

[42:27] And then Mormon came.

[42:29] Rory O'Malley: What year did you guys get married?

[42:31] Jared Gertner: We got married in 2010.

[42:33] Wow.

[42:34] Rory O'Malley: We just celebrated our eight, eight, we just celebrated ten years together and eight years married.

[42:38] That's incredible.

[42:39] Jared Gertner: You guys got married after two years of being together?

[42:42] Rory O'Malley: We got engaged in less than a year. We got I remember that it was or like early on, because Gerald and I have been together over ten years, but we didn't get married until like six and a half years together.

[42:52] We were so fast.

[42:53] Jared Gertner: Rory, I I was hanging out with uh Stanley Bahorick and Scott Barnhart and Logan Lipton. This we had this little like group that we used to hang out with a lot. We were hanging out, and I said, You guys, I I I met the guy, like the guy, one I'm gonna be with forever. I'm I'm so smitten.

[43:08] And Scott Barnhart said, That's amazing. When was your first date? And I said, It's this coming Sunday.

[43:16] And we were it was so fast.

[43:18] Jared Gertner: And we were we both left our date and told people we we went to r our respective places and told the people we were with, I'm gonna marry the guy I just had this first date with.

[43:26] And it was it was really fast.

[43:28] And then that was October. We moved in with each other uh in June, and I already had the rings that I was gonna use to propose to him because I bought them in like May.

[43:38] And but this is 2010.

[43:41] Rory O'Malley: Where was it legal?

[43:42] Jared Gertner: Like where were it was legal? It wasn't legal in New York yet, so we got married.

[43:46] Rory O'Malley: Where was it?

[43:47] Jared Gertner: We were we were we got married in Connecticut. We were going to get the certificate we were gonna just get married in Connecticut and then have a party in New York, and we thought we don't want to put any money into the economy of a state that doesn't respect us enough to give us rights.

[44:00] Right.

[44:00] Jared Gertner: So we put all of our money into Connecticut, all of our vendors were from Connecticut and we put all our money into their economy and had a wedding that we wouldn't have been able to have in New York because we had about 220 people, and I don't think we could have afforded that kind of wedding in New York City.

[44:13] Right.

[44:14] Rory O'Malley: So it was pretty amazing.

[44:15] Jared Gertner: We got married in Southbury, Connecticut.

[44:17] Wow.

[44:18] Rory O'Malley: Yeah, I I remember seeing the pictures and just being so so happy for you guys. And also I just felt like you guys were pioneers.

[44:28] I mean, I know that we have a lot of of gay couples who've gotten married before you, but I think that when we look back and at and and there's you know, the history of the marriage equality movement, and we're looking at, you know, the the sing the few states that were allowing couples to get married, the fact that there were only a handful when you guys got married.

[44:51] I mean, when Gerald and I got married in 2014, it wasn't uh legal in Ohio or or Indiana where we're both from.

[44:58] So we had to get married in in New York State.

[45:01] And I just think it's going to be such a crazy thing to think about, you know, 20 years from now that we were.

[45:14] Find a state to get married in, basically.

[45:17] Rory O'Malley: And I remember when it became legal in New York, we were doing Mormon and you guys were all on stage, and I was following it up in my classroom up in up in 601.

[45:25] Yeah.

[45:25] Jared Gertner: And I I got I had the privilege of running down to stage level, and as you guys came off stage, I got to say it passed, it passed.

[45:32] And told everybody that uh that it was now legal, and everybody just was hugging and crying and it was so special.

[45:39] I think it was um during spooky Mormon Hell Dream, maybe.

[45:43] Yeah, that sounds right.

[45:45] Jared Gertner: That sounds right. Um yeah, no, I remember that performance so well. I it was it was such an exciting thing that you know so many in the Broadway community had worked on that campaign to get the New York state Senate to pass marriage equality, which is so crazy how hard it was.

[46:01] We failed back in 2000 and 10 and I think that was 2012, right?

[46:08] Rory O'Malley: That summer.

[46:09] Jared Gertner: So it it took such a long time for New York to get on board and um you know and then I was in I was doing Mormon in London when they struck down DOMA.

[46:19] Wow.

[46:20] Jared Gertner: And basically our marriage which had only been legally legal in Connecticut, it was only a state license, all of a sudden we gained federal rights and I was on stage it was intermission when Gavin Krill and I found out that it had passed and my husband worked for the company.

[46:34] He was selling merchandise in the front of the theater in London and he ran backstage right before we started uh making things up again Arnold and he found me in the stage left wing and he just grabbed me and we hugged and we cried and everyone was looking at us and they were all so happy because they had all been like I don't understand why isn't it legal already? Why don't you we had to explain to them that we had a half we had half rights.

[46:56] We didn't have all the rights.

[46:57] Jared Gertner: And um and we just sat and cried and cried and cried and then the music started for the top of act too and I was like oh shit Je Jeffrey you go I gotta get ready for this act too. I gotta fuck a lot right now and I wiped my face and I went out and did making things up again Arnold.

[47:10] Oh yeah that was basically uh I I think around the time that um that we got engaged uh w was when that when that uh was was decided because you know it was I think especially for so many people it was kind it's it's it's hard to understand until it's of the law of the land across the board you know it was so confusing when it was all these different states and people having rights here and not rights there.

[47:37] I mean I'm just so glad that's over is that it there's not that confusion.

[47:45] And and I think that there was just that second class citizen status of domestic partnerships and different states.

[47:51] It was so crazy.

[47:52] Jared Gertner: It was a crazy time period but I really do look at you and Jeffrey and now you Jeffrey and Augie, your son, as leaders you know, you guys really showed us what it meant to be married and be fearless to just kind of move forward with your life and not wait around for laws to be changed, not wait around for the entire world to get on board.

[48:16] Jared Gertner: And also with having a child, you know Gerald and I have been trying for a couple of years now and going down that path and definitely getting to see you guys be such great dads has been such a wonderful reminder of why we're on that journey and what's at the end of it.

[48:33] Rory O'Malley: That's really sweet of you to say. I think that Jeffrey and I never thought of it as a political thing. We just we always saw getting married as what we wanted to do. On our first date we talked about the fact that we wanted to get married, you know, we both wanted to get married. We both wanted to have kids we wanted to have kids through surrogacy like we knew the path they wanted to take and that was our first date which gives you some idea of how quickly we moved.

[48:54] Jared Gertner: Yeah, um it never felt political it just felt like we were doing what we were what we were supposed to do. But we look back at it now and we realize that we were we were sort of, I guess, quietly making pretty large statements by living our lives out loud and doing the things that we wanted to do, whether or not everybody was on board for them.

[49:16] Rory O'Malley: You know?

[49:17] Jared Gertner: Yeah.

[49:17] Rory O'Malley: Well, I mean, just being who you are and being open about it can be a huge statement and make a huge difference. And I think that you guys have done that so well and been such a positive reinforcement of, you know, what our dream is. So I really am grateful to you guys for that.

[49:38] Jared Gertner: What are some of the downsides or not downsides, but hardships and hard parts about being the leaders, the pioneers of being married and being two dads?

[49:52] Jared Gertner: Uh I think probably that people don't know anything about it yet. And so in that respect, I in the beginning especially I said I would say to Jeffrey, I think that we have an opportunity or an obligation almost to educate people about families like ours. This was more about when we decided to have a kid. But I'll tell you what, people and you you'll find this probably still people ask crazy inappropriate questions all the time. And so we're constantly balancing the like how do we educate people about who we are but still sort of protect ourselves and have enough boundaries that we feel like we're not we're not giving away too much.

[50:37] Rory O'Malley: Sure.

[50:38] Jared Gertner: So I mean people check the lady at checking us out at Target will ask us, you know, like how much did he cost you? Or waiting online for a ride in Disneyland. Someone will be like, So did you guys mix your sperm up in a cup? And I'll just be like, Uh, you don't know my name, sir. I'm not entirely sure you get to talk about my sperm.

[50:54] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[50:54] Jared Gertner: You know? So we get all sorts of really inappropriate questions, and we're always sort of I don't know, figuring out how to handle it in a way that can help educate people, but doesn't violate us or our child, especially now when he's getting older and can understand things about the questions.

[51:16] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[51:17] Jared Gertner: Uh so that's been sort of the biggest challenge for us. We get we get crazy, crazy inappropriate questions. But largely I find I don't know, I feel really lucky to have been able to have young gay people in Mormon say, like, oh man, I want what you guys have, and to know that we're providing an example. And what's even cooler is when young straight people tell us, I really just want to find what you guys have. Because then I realize like what we have is not it's not different, it's not controversial. It's just love. People want to find what we have because we are deeply passionately, wonderfully in love. And that has nothing to do with the fact that we're not gay in love, we're just in love.

[52:00] Rory O'Malley: Exactly.

[52:01] Jared Gertner: Exactly. Well, I think that you guys are such a great example to everyone. And I think that, you know, you've done such a great job of pushing forward in this business and finding new ways to find work and to, you know, like you've started a teaching, you have also moved from New York City, this city that you have that had you had mastered and been, you know, from college on, been, you know, a part of that world and come out to Los Angeles with the job. That's that's the big change. How did you deal with that?

[52:40] Jared Gertner: Uh and why did you do it?

[52:42] Jared Gertner: I did it because I did we opened the tour Book of Mormon out here, or we opened it in Denver, then we came here and did three months. And basically every single person in town came and saw us. And there were a lot of doors open to me. A lot of networks and studios and people I had met said, When let us know when you want to come back here. And so we went to London and did it there for almost two years. And when we came back, I thought, let me go see if those doors are still open. Cause you know, doors don't stay open for long. Let me see if I can if I can do it. Because I realized Mormon had given us a quality of life that we just we really loved. And even if I had gone back into you know to New York and gone into another show right away, it wouldn't have been the same kind of experience I was having on Mormon. It was I mean, you know, you were there too. It was this magical ride. And I thought, why don't we go try something new and see maybe I can go book a series and continue on the magical ride.

[53:38] Jared Gertner: Um and my husband also wisely, because we knew the baby was already on the way when we left London. We were already about three months pregnant, I think. Uh so he said, once the baby comes, we're never gonna move cross-country. Let's go now, before he's born, so that we don't go to New York, have the baby, and then say, Oh, it's too much to move with a baby. So we uh so we came out here and it was great. A lot of those doors were still open to me, and I was able to find some good representation out here. And I booked a pilot for NBC within a few months of getting here, which felt great. And so I was like, Well, great. So I I got LA down.

[54:14] Jared Gertner: Yeah, it worked. And then the pilot didn't get picked up. And uh it became a lot more of a struggle out here. You know, I'm lucky I book work and I do voiceover and I do some film and I do TV episodic and uh wherever I wherever they'll have me basically. And I do theater out here too, which has been really nice because I didn't I didn't know there was as much theater out here. But um I think that I uh I have a lot of we have a lot of downtime here, and downtime is really dangerous as an actor because when you're not doing it all the time, you start to wonder and go down some dark holes. And so it's uh there's a lot of self-maintenance that I've had to had to do out in LA that I never had to do in New York 'cause just because I'm not as busy.

[54:59] Rory O'Malley: Right.

[54:59] Jared Gertner: Uh and I so I have to constantly be keeping myself moving forward and grateful and joyful um in a way that I didn't have to in New York as much because New York did that work for me.

[55:09] Rory O'Malley: Well, New York keeps you distracted, busy, and engaged on a daily basis. It can be exhausting, but it certainly doesn't let you get too much in your head.

[55:20] Jared Gertner: Right. And LA really, really, really does.

[55:23] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[55:23] Jared Gertner: Um, so that's been challenging, but I've also been able to do stuff out here that was in New York because I was always in a show, I didn't get to do a lot of TV stuff because I couldn't. Out here, I'm getting I've gotten to do a bunch and I'm learning. And at our age and our time in the business, it's pretty cool to learn new things. Because we know everything about theater already. I don't we're not I'm not the best I can be at theater yet, but I know what all the terms mean. I know who all the players are, I know I know all that stuff. And out here, like I'm learning all new things. And I remember getting a schedule for my first TV show, and there were like letters next to my name, and I thought, what I have no idea what those letters mean.

[55:59] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[56:01] Jared Gertner: And nobody really educates you in TV the way they do in theater. In theater, I feel like they take you under their wing and they're like, This is a 10 out of 12, and that means whereas in in TV you're just kind of expected to know. So a lot of cast meetings in uh in theater where let's all get together and talk.

[56:17] Rory O'Malley: Right, right.

[56:17] Jared Gertner: There's not a lot of that in TV at all.

[56:19] Rory O'Malley: No, everything's moving too fast.

[56:21] Jared Gertner: But it means I've had the chance to learn new stuff. And how cool is that to learn new stuff?

[56:25] Rory O'Malley: Yeah.

[56:27] Jared Gertner: And then um and I I talk like a hundred. Uh and you know, commercials and and voice I've found a really cool kind of uh in into the voiceover world and um and then theater. What's cool about theater in LA is there isn't like a eight million dollar budget on shows. So they're not as concerned with finding like the most marketable star to be in it. And and I've gotten the opportunity to play some roles out here that I feel like I never would have gotten the chance to play in New York. And I've really loved that and I've worked with amazing people and so I you know, I just keep just you just keep trucking along and uh waiting for the next big thing and enjoying all the little things that come in between the big things.

[57:11] Rory O'Malley: How can people find out about your workshop um your your classes?

[57:16] Jared Gertner: Uh I always advertise on my social media, so on Instagram I'm at Jared Gertner One. Uh and on uh Twitter I'm uh at Jared Gertner and then uh I have a website which is Jared Gertner dot com, which uh I'll be putting a teaching page up on that pretty soon.

[57:29] Rory O'Malley: Awesome.

[57:30] Jared Gertner: Yeah.

[57:30] Rory O'Malley: Well, I think that you have so much to offer, so I'm so glad that you're doing that. I think that your students really uh really look up to you not just creatively, but I could tell they have uh they've built a lot of confidence with you.

[57:46] Jared Gertner: And I think that's the best kind of teacher.

[57:50] Jared Gertner: Um it's not just about the craft, it's about building some kind of foundation of confidence at that age, which is you know what makes it most beneficial to a high school student.

[58:01] Jared Gertner: Yeah, thanks, Roy. I appreciate that. You can come back and talk to them anytime. They were like beside themselves getting to meet you.

[58:08] Rory O'Malley: Oh, that's so sweet.

[58:09] Jared Gertner: They had it was nice because Hamilton, I got to do the show here last year. And so some of them brought their programs and I was like, yes, we've got like real Hamilton. You know, like they're gonna like be engaged with what I have to say. And they just were so awesome and so talented and two or three of them came wearing Hamilton shirts.

[58:30] Rory O'Malley: Yes.

[58:31] Jared Gertner: That's adorable.

[58:32] Jared Gertner: Yes. It's awesome because we're seeing you know what Cats and Lame is and what those shows were to us in Hamilton. And it's all cool for you because there are so rarely like these huge juggernaut musicals. There's a lot of hits but like juggernaut musicals and the two biggest ones in the last however long were Mormon and Hamilton and you got to do both of them. What a cool thing to get to see that world twice.

[59:03] Jared Gertner: Very twice totally surreal. I mean throughout Mormon, you know like I was like well this is it better enjoy it because that's never gonna happen again. And so now that Hamilton happened and I got to be a part of that experience I'm like well now I'm really done nothing's good's gonna happen after this but no it's really it I've now Daniel Melly.

[59:27] Rory O'Malley: Yes.

[59:29] Jared Gertner: Exactly well I I'm it's so perfect that I get to talk to you um this week, you know, after after getting to talk about my new son. That makes me so, so happy. I've never been this whole happy in my life. Gerald and I are just so thrilled. It just gets better, man. You're gonna love it.

[59:47] Rory O'Malley: Thanks, bud. Well, um, thanks for talking with us on Livin' the Dream.

[59:51] Jared Gertner: Thanks for having me.

[59:54] Jared Gertner: Audition side job, swimming upstream. Believe it or not, you're living the dream.