This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jessica Rush: Hey everybody, welcome to this episode of Mamas Talkin' Loud.

[0:03] Cara Cooper: I'm Cara Cooper, and you're listening to our episode with Karen Olivo, currently starring as Satine in Moulin Rouge.

[0:36] Cara Cooper: Hi everybody, and welcome to this episode of Mamas Talkin' Loud.

[0:39] Jessica Rush: I'm Cara Cooper.

[0:40] Jessica Rush: And I'm Jessica Rush. And today we have Tony Award winner, Karen Olivo.

[0:46] Karen Olivo: Welcome.

[0:46] Karen Olivo: What's up, guys?

[0:47] Jessica Rush: I felt I need to sing your name.

[0:49] Karen Olivo: I like it.

[0:49] Cara Cooper: Yeah, too.

[0:50] Cara Cooper: I like those O's on either end.

[0:54] Cara Cooper: Um, Karen is currently starring as Satine in Moulin Rouge here on Broadway. She also was in In the Heights and Brooklyn.

[1:04] Jessica Rush: Remember that show?

[1:04] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[1:05] Jessica Rush: And Rent.

[1:06] Cara Cooper: That was ages ago.

[1:07] Jessica Rush: That was a long time ago.

[1:08] Cara Cooper: Uh-huh. I know we've the three of us have been here for a while.

[1:10] Cara Cooper: For a minute.

[1:11] Jessica Rush: Um, for a minute. Uh, but Karen, thank you for joining us this morning.

[1:15] Karen Olivo: My pleasure.

[1:15] Karen Olivo: Um, it is early.

[1:17] Karen Olivo: Early, early.

[1:18] Cara Cooper: New York day.

[1:19] Cara Cooper: Mm-hmm.

[1:20] Cara Cooper: Um, we wanted to speak to Karen because in our Journey to Motherhood series, we are, you know, covering all aspects of motherhood and how people come to motherhood.

[1:29] Cara Cooper: And Karen is a stepmom.

[1:32] Cara Cooper: Um, and we wanted to talk to her about that.

[1:36] Jessica Rush: And so if you just jump right in, maybe just give us a broad overview of the kiddos.

[1:40] Karen Olivo: And well, I'll start with I do not, I don't call myself a stepmom.

[1:46] Karen Olivo: Great.

[1:47] Karen Olivo: Awesome.

[1:47] Karen Olivo: I call them my kids.

[1:49] Karen Olivo: Yeah, I don't say they're my stepkids. Because I was when I first I met them when they were, let me see, Alex was in first grade, and Maddie was in fourth or fifth grade.

[2:01] Karen Olivo: Um, they, you know, they definitely had a relationship with their mother, their biological mother.

[2:08] Karen Olivo: And um, I stepping in, I kind of felt like if I was to label myself as half of something, they would assume possibly in their youth that that meant that I loved them half as much.

[2:24] Karen Olivo: So um, I just said, you're my kid, and they were like, okay. And because they're young and they don't know and they've never had parents before, other than, you know, Alex was like, yeah, that's, you know, that's who she is.

[2:38] Karen Olivo: Um, they, um, so Alex is now 13.

[2:43] Cara Cooper: Whoa.

[2:44] Karen Olivo: Yeah, he'll be 13 actually this week, but um, Maddie is 16 and she just got her driver's license.

[2:51] Jessica Rush: Yeah.

[2:52] Cara Cooper: Oh my god.

[2:53] Karen Olivo: That feels really bad and good.

[2:56] Karen Olivo: Yeah, it's such a milestone, but um, yeah, those are my kids.

[3:01] Jessica Rush: Oh my gosh.

[3:02] Karen Olivo: And they're both incredible kids. Like I know a lot of people say my kid is the best, but my kids are not only super smart and kind and really good at thinking about others, um, they're just they never get into trouble.

[3:24] Karen Olivo: I don't know how that's possible. You know, sometimes they try not to do their chores, but like I don't I'll never have to worry about them.

[3:32] Cara Cooper: That's um such a relief.

[3:33] Karen Olivo: Yeah, we're really, we're lucky, we're very lucky.

[3:36] Cara Cooper: And do they do they live, they don't live here?

[3:40] Karen Olivo: They live in Madison, Wisconsin. That's where I live permanently. I'm just working in New York right now.

[3:43] Cara Cooper: Oh god.

[3:45] Cara Cooper: Okay. And um, yeah, so that we spend they spend half of their time um with their dad and then half of their time with their biological mom.

[3:56] Jessica Rush: All right.

[3:57] Cara Cooper: All right, okay.

[3:57] Cara Cooper: Was it a difficult transition for you for them? What was that?

[4:01] Karen Olivo: Well, you know, when I met them, I was just dad's friend for a while.

[4:07] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[4:08] Karen Olivo: And I would come and visit and stay with them sometimes. And you know, we were very careful to not introduce me as anything other than that.

[4:17] Karen Olivo: And then after I would say, like the fourth or fifth time that I would come and stay and hang out with them and play, um, my husband and I decided that we were gonna try to make a go of it.

[4:29] Karen Olivo: And so we asked them first if, you know, how would they feel about they used to call me Carrot, they didn't call me Karen.

[4:37] Karen Olivo: It's a long story. Um, we asked, would you like Carrot to come and live in our house? And they were like, Yeah.

[4:45] Karen Olivo: Of course. And so at that point we decided, okay, then we can do this.

[4:50] Karen Olivo: And um, yeah, and then I moved in, and shortly after that we were married, and it just kind of it should not have worked as well as it did when I look at it, when I think about it.

[5:02] Cara Cooper: Right.

[5:03] Cara Cooper: Well, there's so many parts of it, yeah.

[5:06] Karen Olivo: Yeah, they were just because they're good kids, they kind of rolled with it.

[5:10] Karen Olivo: Um, I was very careful not to try to do anything other than what I do.

[5:18] Karen Olivo: Like I would, you know, their biological mother has a very specific role in their life, and I'm so different from her that it actually worked out really well.

[5:27] Karen Olivo: The three of us now parent them from different sides.

[5:31] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[5:31] Karen Olivo: And we are pretty comfortable with handing off to the other person.

[5:35] Karen Olivo: Like that's your expertise. Handle that. Um, yeah, it I don't know. It's kind of a dream.

[5:43] Cara Cooper: That's amazing. Did it take y'all a while to get to that place?

[5:47] Karen Olivo: Yeah, it was dark. There was a dark period of time. You know, there were, you know, there were some issues with, I mean, I don't know what it feels like to be a, you know, to have children and then have a divorce and then have someone come in and you don't know them very well.

[6:05] Karen Olivo: Um, so it was tough for their mom and me at first because we are so different.

[6:13] Karen Olivo: Um, and you know, we did a really I think we did a good job of not involving them and trying to get to know each other.

[6:25] Karen Olivo: Um, and over time, as all things work out, they eventually work out. You stay the course, you keep reassuring the person, this is the person that I am, this is what I want for our family.

[6:37] Karen Olivo: And you show up and then eventually they just understand it's gonna be okay.

[6:42] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[6:42] Cara Cooper: Well, you have the common, the common goal is to just love and raise these children.

[6:49] Karen Olivo: Yeah, but I would, I would as a biological parent, I feel like that would be hard for a mom to just inherently trust someone new.

[6:57] Karen Olivo: So, like you said, you just have to show up and you have to embody the person that you know that you are, so they can then trust you with that.

[7:06] Cara Cooper: Wow. That was that's deep.

[7:08] Cara Cooper: That's a lot.

[7:09] Jessica Rush: Yeah, that's here we go. Um, well, how did you did you meet Jim?

[7:13] Karen Olivo: Because was this okay?

[7:15] Karen Olivo: Yeah, so yeah.

[7:16] Karen Olivo: Go back. You win the Tony, you've been in New York for a while, you're doing TV, and um there was something after West Side.

[7:26] Cara Cooper: Yeah, uh theater wise.

[7:28] Karen Olivo: Yeah, I did Murder Ballad together and I did Tick, Tick... Boom.

[7:31] Karen Olivo: And something at the Public.

[7:34] Cara Cooper: So there was other stuff happening.

[7:36] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[7:36] Cara Cooper: And then, and then you you left.

[7:40] Karen Olivo: Yeah.

[7:40] Karen Olivo: And then there was and it was a thing.

[7:42] Cara Cooper: It was a thing.

[7:43] Cara Cooper: Like, I mean, did you think it would be like such a thing?

[7:46] Cara Cooper: Like when Karen retired or left, or it was but did that, was the impetus for that James and the kids?

[7:55] Karen Olivo: Like, yeah, it was. Well, a little bit.

[7:56] Karen Olivo: I mean, I knew Jim, uh, James is his correct name, but I call him Jim.

[8:01] Karen Olivo: Um, I knew him because we did Brooklyn together. He was an A2, he was a sound assistant, so he was the person who like put on my mic.

[8:11] Karen Olivo: So we knew each other for many years, and we were just friends.

[8:15] Karen Olivo: Um, we lived really close to each other in Brooklyn, so we would sometimes ride the subway home together, and we stayed in touch over the years.

[8:22] Karen Olivo: You know, I was married to someone else, he was obviously married.

[8:25] Karen Olivo: Um, and then our relationships years later ended around six months apart.

[8:32] Karen Olivo: He was six months before me, and I happened to be living in LA doing a TV show when um, when I started to decide I don't necessarily want to be in LA anymore.

[8:46] Karen Olivo: And he had come through to visit his sister in LA, and he looked me up on Facebook and said, We should hang out.

[8:54] Karen Olivo: It seems as if you need a friend, and then that's what sort of rekindled our relationship.

[9:01] Karen Olivo: Um, and then I became bi-coastal at that point, and I would stop in Madison on my way to New York.

[9:08] Cara Cooper: Because that's where he was.

[9:09] Karen Olivo: Yeah.

[9:10] Karen Olivo: And that's how I got to meet the kids, and that's how I got to meet his family and get to know Madison.

[9:15] Karen Olivo: And I kept popping around doing all of these different things.

[9:18] Karen Olivo: I had a handful of like projects that I was looking at that sort of fell through.

[9:22] Karen Olivo: And then I was like, what am I doing?

[9:23] Karen Olivo: Like, I'm not happy on either coast.

[9:26] Karen Olivo: Um, my work is suffering because there's literally nothing in the tank.

[9:30] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[9:31] Karen Olivo: Uh, and then I was like, I'm just gonna stop doing this.

[9:34] Karen Olivo: And I have this other thing that I keep, I would arrive in Madison and I would feel like, oh, this is it.

[9:41] Karen Olivo: Like, like when you walk into your house and you're like, oh, I'm about to put on my pajamas.

[9:44] Cara Cooper: Right.

[9:45] Karen Olivo: Like, that's what it felt like to land in Madison.

[9:47] Karen Olivo: And then I would go to New York and not feel that, and then I would show up in LA and not feel that.

[9:51] Karen Olivo: And then I was like, screw all of this.

[9:53] Karen Olivo: I'm just gonna go to the place where I feel settled and I feel right, and then I'm gonna work on myself because Karen is not okay walking into all of these rooms trying to be somebody that she's not.

[10:07] Jessica Rush: That's girl.

[10:08] Jessica Rush: I mean, the minute you said like you would land in Madison and and feel that you were home, like the place that you would put on your pajamas, like I totally get that.

[10:16] Jessica Rush: And yeah, when you get to a point where it's such a stark contrast to how you feel in other places, how could I mean kudos to you for not ignoring that?

[10:24] Cara Cooper: Yeah, for listening to the listening to your, I mean, you clearly are someone who listens to yourself and like makes your decisions, you know.

[10:33] Cara Cooper: You live the best life for you, regardless of expectation or, you know, which is really hard in this industry.

[10:41] Karen Olivo: It's really hard to not have other people's expectations of you dictate the choices you make.

[10:46] Cara Cooper: So like Jessica said, kudos. That's a that's a big step.

[10:49] Jessica Rush: Were you surprised by the response?

[10:52] Karen Olivo: Well, what made you feel like you needed to write the letter?

[10:57] Karen Olivo: Yeah, I had been documenting a lot of stuff.

[11:00] Karen Olivo: I'd just been like writing because I do write, but I don't really publish anything and I don't share it with many people.

[11:05] Karen Olivo: But I had just started a blog, and so I was sort of I would write it and then I would send it to like my friend Andrea and like Mandy and Janet and be like, I just wrote this thing.

[11:16] Karen Olivo: And um, and so when I decided to make that decision, it had come out sort of artfully in my brain.

[11:24] Karen Olivo: The decision sort of felt like something that I needed to document, and then I was like, Well, I'll put it on the blog.

[11:30] Karen Olivo: That's easy. I didn't maybe I'm just stupid, I just didn't really expect it to be that much of an issue because I'm one person floating on this rock in the middle of no, like who cares what I do decide where I decide to live, truthfully, right?

[11:46] Karen Olivo: Um, but our business being what it is, everyone's business is everyone's business.

[11:51] Karen Olivo: Um, and then it turned into something that seemed really silly.

[11:55] Karen Olivo: And I remember like right afterwards, it was during pilot season, I think.

[12:00] Karen Olivo: I had put that out and it became an issue.

[12:03] Karen Olivo: And I had lunch with my friend Tully, and he looked at me and he was like, People are gonna say whatever they want about your choices.

[12:11] Karen Olivo: He's like, if you don't, if it doesn't feel right to you to explain yourself, then don't explain yourself.

[12:18] Karen Olivo: And I was like, You're right.

[12:19] Jessica Rush: Yeah, yeah.

[12:20] Karen Olivo: I don't care what the business decided I'm going to do.

[12:24] Karen Olivo: They don't really well.

[12:27] Karen Olivo: This business is gonna keep on ticking it.

[12:29] Karen Olivo: It doesn't matter.

[12:29] Karen Olivo: It's gonna hear the story and then it's gonna like keep on moving and then look who's popping.

[12:34] Jessica Rush: You don't know who's back, exactly.

[12:35] Karen Olivo: And now Karen is here again.

[12:36] Karen Olivo: It's like I left it.

[12:38] Karen Olivo: I was like, yeah, whatever you think I did is what I did, just leave me alone.

[12:42] Cara Cooper: Right, right.

[12:42] Cara Cooper: Well, it's so interesting too, because the in the time when you wrote the blog, social media hadn't really become this thing.

[12:48] Cara Cooper: And now, like you make an announcement on social media, it's like yeah, this was for the public to do with what they will.

[12:55] Karen Olivo: But how were you to know that it was gonna turn into this thing like it was a press release?

[12:59] Karen Olivo: I had no idea.

[13:00] Karen Olivo: You were writing a press release about yourself.

[13:02] Karen Olivo: Crazy.

[13:03] Cara Cooper: And clearly, like I love to see, like I was I mean, I would see things of you like talking about doing the pottery and being in Madison, and it was clearly agreeing with you.

[13:15] Cara Cooper: You know what I mean? It's like so often, I mean, truthfully, there's part of me that's like, God, I wish something I always say, I wish something would just come out of the sky and be like, this is what you should do instead, just because what we do is so hard and unstable, and the time commitment and the energy it takes from ourselves and our family.

[13:34] Cara Cooper: So there was a part of me that was like, Good for Karen.

[13:38] Jessica Rush: Yeah, right.

[13:39] Jessica Rush: Way to do it.

[13:39] Jessica Rush: I mean, truthfully, because it's it is exhausting living this life.

[13:45] Karen Olivo: So to step away and not be afraid to do, or maybe you were afraid.

[13:49] Karen Olivo: I don't feel like you were though.

[13:50] Karen Olivo: You probably were like seem that way.

[13:52] Karen Olivo: I'm good.

[13:52] Karen Olivo: It felt like the only choice.

[13:54] Karen Olivo: Oh, because I knew every time I would come to New York and I would try to do work, I was like, this is not right.

[14:02] Karen Olivo: Like, I am nothing in here is clicking.

[14:04] Karen Olivo: And if I'm here to do the work and I can't do the work, then I have to go figure out how to get back to the place where I can actually do the thing that I love.

[14:12] Jessica Rush: Exactly.

[14:13] Jessica Rush: Then why are you here?

[14:14] Jessica Rush: Like if you can't do it, it's just dumb.

[14:15] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[14:16] Cara Cooper: So when you got to Madison, then so does does their biological mom live in Madison as well?

[14:22] Karen Olivo: She lives like minutes from us.

[14:23] Cara Cooper: Oh, great.

[14:24] Cara Cooper: So then were you just you jumped right in?

[14:27] Karen Olivo: Yeah.

[14:28] Karen Olivo: Yeah.

[14:28] Karen Olivo: Instant.

[14:28] Karen Olivo: Now did you ignorantly so?

[14:30] Karen Olivo: Right.

[14:32] Karen Olivo: Truthfully.

[14:32] Karen Olivo: Well, I was gonna ask you, like, did you want to be a mom? Was motherhood something like in terms of always wanted to be a mom? Really? Oh, I mean, my first like make-believe was me like having a husband named Jack. And I had two kids. One didn't have a name, the other one was named Taco. If you know me, if you know me, then it makes a lot of sense. But that um, yeah, I always wanted to be a mom. Yeah. And then, you know, since we're being very honest, it came to a point in which Jim and I really thought that we were going to have our own child. And after trying and trying and trying, I realized I was not able to do it. I had fibroids, I had so many health complications. And then I was like, the more I thought about it, we were like, well, maybe we'll adopt.

And I kept, you know, I'm still parenting these two kids, and I'm still getting to know. And I was like, if we go to the extent of looking for another child, how will my two children currently look at the situation? You know, at some point they'll be like, Well, you needed another one. You are you have to you have a boy and a girl. It's not like you're like, I want a boy. I don't have, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. So then it became an issue of like, this is what I've been given, and they're incredible. Let's throw all of our resources at these two human beings. And it just ended up being the thing. I'm like I said it worked. I don't know how it worked, but it worked well.

[16:06] Cara Cooper: The way you, I just listening to the story, your story, your story of listening to yourself and feeling when things weren't right and moving to the place where things were right, it all fell into place. You wanting to be a mother, are you getting to be a mother? Something that might have been difficult, sounded like it was gonna be difficult for you. You know, you were given this, I don't know, this gift of a family.

[16:25] Karen Olivo: Yeah. I had actually had a handful of friends too who um had been trying for many, many years to have a child, and I had watched them struggle, and the monetary constraints and the physical constraints and the relationship issues, like it is so difficult. And I was like, I why would I do that to this? This unit. Um, so then it just made perfect sense to just be happy with what I was given.

[16:51] Cara Cooper: I think that's wonderful. I mean, it's lovely, you know, because it is very true. The journey of whether IVF or surrogacy or adoption or you know what I mean? It is quite expensive, and the toll it can take on relationships, and like you said, you had two kids, so there's probably a part of them that had y'all worked so hard to have a child or to adopt one, even more so. Like if you're adopt one, then it's like, wait a minute, yeah, yeah, we were already here, and then you're gonna get another adopted. Yeah, you moved here first because you wanted to like have a baby baby, you know what I mean? So there are probably plenty of babies you can hold uh all around, you know what I mean? Like, I feel like I can go smell. We know that's a baby.

[17:34] Karen Olivo: Yeah, exactly. But um, I just think that's so lovely. I really am in awe of you, Karen, with regard to how you listen and honor what you feel within yourself. That's yeah, that's really on all things. I mean, you've this has now come up a couple times where we've been chatting, and I just think that um it's so difficult to do that, and so often, especially as women, I think, and women, perhaps Latina women, like their expectations or their assumptions. And I think that going down this journey and just putting all of the bullshit aside and being your person is really admirable. I'm really I'm soups impressed, girl.

[18:16] Karen Olivo: Thanks. That's real, yeah. That's awesome. So um, I know you do that some charity work, and that um really um arts education is important to I did not know, I just found this out that your dad was a drama teacher.

[18:29] Karen Olivo: It was, yeah. My dad's a drama teacher. Yes. When I read this, I was like, what?

[18:35] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[18:36] Karen Olivo: In Florida.

[18:37] Cara Cooper: Yeah. Mine too.

[18:39] Karen Olivo: At West Orange high school.

[18:40] Cara Cooper: That's crazy.

[18:41] Karen Olivo: I know in Orlando, Wolf Winter Garden.

[18:43] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[18:43] Karen Olivo: Oh my God.

[18:44] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[18:45] Karen Olivo: Girl. I literally, when I read that last night, I was like, we've never talked about that.

[18:48] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[18:48] Karen Olivo: That's great. And then you know it was in your life.

[18:51] Cara Cooper: Girl, there was no other. You didn't have a choice.

[18:53] Karen Olivo: There was no choice. My dad was my first director.

[18:56] Cara Cooper: Yep.

[18:57] Karen Olivo: Yeah. People are like, why do you always do it like that? And I was like, because I hear my dad's voice in my head and he's saying you have to do it this way.

[19:05] Cara Cooper: Exactly.

[19:06] Karen Olivo: Exactly. Oh my God. But maybe your dad let you play a lead part. My dad didn't cast me as Annie.

[19:11] Cara Cooper: So nope.

[19:12] Karen Olivo: No, no. Good.

[19:13] Cara Cooper: So we're in that.

[19:15] Karen Olivo: And I was always in the back.

[19:16] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[19:17] Karen Olivo: Yep, yep. I didn't sing loud enough in an audition, so I think it's the Annie, but that's fine.

[19:21] Cara Cooper: Oh my God. I'm over it at the age of 30.

[19:23] Karen Olivo: That's better though than having like a stage mom. You know, you're your dad's, you know, taught you like you aren't always gonna be the lead, you know?

[19:30] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[19:31] Karen Olivo: And you are now you're there's that. Tony would have so I can only imagine the how proud he is of you.

[19:37] Cara Cooper: Oh my gosh, yeah, how special that is. But because of that, I'm sure is why arts education, you've seen the impact firsthand um in communities, uh how important it is.

[19:48] Karen Olivo: Yeah. I mean, I truthfully the the thing with art is I I feel like it's it's not just about the um you know the community building or the the creation of art, but I I see how it rounds an individual. I mean, I from a very young age, I was I was taught to accept everyone and to work with people that I didn't understand and to make something impossible happen and that shape somebody and that became the thing that I was like, oh, and especially like kids from troubled backgrounds, like I was a kid who had a troubled background, and that sort of safe haven, that is something that you cannot I I don't know anything else that does that.

[20:37] Cara Cooper: Agreed.

[20:38] Karen Olivo: I agree, I would definitely agree with that. So I that just became like uh, you know, my dad being a uh a director and a teacher. A lot of times I would just sort of follow him around and do stuff with him, and then it became something that made me feel like I was a small person like making a change in the world when you're so young. Like I remember in high school, I do like they'd have like musical theater camps, and when I got to a certain age, they were like, okay, Karen, you can teach like the improv class. And I remember being like, Oh, I'm actually like, I'm contributing something, and I'm just like this kid. And that's huge. And then I realized later on that like education is like the way you change the future. And I was like, well, why would I want to do anything else? Um had my grade, my grades been better, maybe I would have just been an educator, like a you know, a history teacher or something.

[21:33] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[21:33] Karen Olivo: But but now you're in a position where people will seek your advice because of your expertise in this field.

[21:38] Cara Cooper: So you said not that way.

[21:42] Karen Olivo: I mean, truthfully, my dream job is just to like teach acting. That's my dream job. Um, I'll do this Broadway thing for a while.

[21:51] Cara Cooper: Right.

[21:52] Karen Olivo: Yeah. Don't everyone just calm down. She's not coming on Broadway. Okay. She still wants to be here.

[21:58] Cara Cooper: But yeah.

[22:00] Karen Olivo: Yeah, there's actually a period of time in which someone offered me my dream job, and it was at a college. They were like, Yeah, just come and like be on staff and do your thing. And and I was like, Oh, wow. And then they're like, You're just gonna have to get your degree. And I was like, Right. Yeah, that degree. Right. I'm like a year away from getting the rest of my degree. So well, maybe one to, you know. Maybe after Milan Rouge, I'll just go and get the rest of those credits and just yeah.

[22:27] Cara Cooper: You'll have like you'll listen to your gut. Power in the bank.

[22:31] Karen Olivo: Yeah, you'll have like, you know, you'll have had this year on the bank. Oh my god. It makes everything possible.

[22:36] Cara Cooper: Oh, yeah, yeah. Legit power in the bank, but also like within yourself, you know what I mean? I mean, it gives you a little more freedom to make choices that you know, some might somebody else might not have. You gotta pay your rent, you know what I mean, or your mortgage or whatever it is.

[22:48] Karen Olivo: Yeah.

[22:48] Cara Cooper: Um, but so I want to know. So you were in, I we were just talking about your education and and your charity work, and I want to get back to that. But the point of the story where you were in Madison and then you're back in New York like how did that transpire?

[23:05] Karen Olivo: So it I was in Madison I would say for about like three or four months before like the first call to go do something musical theater related happened. But this is the other thing like and I've told a handful of people the moment that I was that blog came out and I was like nah I think I'm gonna go do this it was like my phone would not stop ringing of course everyone in New York they're like she's the only person in the world who could play this part and I was like oh you guys can all just screw yourselves right like yeah I've been in New York like for the last five months looking at your face being like what else would you like me to sing and now I'm the only person.

[23:42] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[23:42] Karen Olivo: So when I went back I was you know I'd I was doing my own thing and then I think it might have been Lynn was the first one who was like hey I know you're doing your thing will you come back and do tick tick boom with me and Leslie at City Center and I was like it's a short thing. Yeah it's Jonathan Larson right love him. Yes. So I would just pop back so every year I did like one thing in that's sort of like dreams I feel like short and it was small and it wasn't high profile and that I that's why I think a lot of people were very like oh she's gone um because I wasn't making a big fuss about it. I was just coming in doing the work and then getting right back out. Um I think when people started to realize that I was like working more steadily was when I decided to do Hamilton in Chicago because it was like two and a half hours away from my house.

On a Sunday night after the matinee. I could get in the car and drive home and sleep in my own bed. I was like, this is like I remember actually like getting in the car after a matinee, getting home, sleeping, and like volunteering at my son's school the next day. And I was like, yo, like I did it. Like I won. I won the game of life.

[24:54] Cara Cooper: Yeah, you did.

[24:54] Karen Olivo: Yeah, you did. Um, but yeah, that was it. I think that, and then at that point, because Hamilton is so well known. People like, oh, she's back on the boards. And then, you know, as right?

[25:07] Cara Cooper: Well, and what's crazy is this could just be anyone's journey in terms of the ebb and flow of our business, exactly. You know, it's like only because of the blog post, you know, it became a press release, was it even a thing? Otherwise, it'd just be like, What's Karen up to? Oh, well, she's just taking time off, or she's out in LA or she's in Matt. You know what I mean? It's not about because heck. I mean, plenty of people have their conversations with their agents or whatever, and like, I don't want to audition for the next six months, and I just want to take even Celia Keenan Bulger was one of our guests, and the toll that Killan Mockingbird took on her psyche and her ability to do good work. She's like, I need a minute. Yeah, I need a minute to just be, yeah, you know, and but no one's saying she's left the business, you know, right?

[25:48] Karen Olivo: Oh my god. It makes a better story that way, you know.

[25:51] Cara Cooper: Right. Around that time too, like people were like, you know, when they were harping on that, I remember reading something about like all of the great painters, like they would just take years off. They'd be like, Yeah, I did this like whole period, my blue period, and now I'm just like getting drunk, like in a brothel somewhere, right? For years, so I can like fill up my brain and my heart, and then I can well, why can't we do that? Like, why can't we all just decide to like hit pause and be like, I'm gonna do some stuff so that I actually have something to work from?

[26:22] Karen Olivo: Right. Well, and I think that's something that's come into play as mothers too. And I'm sure you could attest to that, like how it's influenced what you bring to the table now and how how it has changed you, sort of on a cellular level, I'm sure.

[26:35] Karen Olivo: Oh my gosh. With what you have in the tank. I'm so much softer now. I was so hard before. And I am much more compassionate because of my kids. I'm also nicer to myself because of my kids, because you know that that happens. Yeah, you know, performers, we beat ourselves up, we're never good enough. And then you look at like I have my I can't say little because she's 16 now, but she's also a very talented performer and she watches me like a hawk. And I watch her watching me practice, and I realize I have to be kinder because she's learning from me. It changes everything. Um I I mean, they've made they've just made me better. It's been my own form of therapy in a lot of ways.

[27:22] Cara Cooper: Oh, I I think there's a lot of truth to that being a parent. Well, because it makes you examine yourself in a way that you I certainly didn't before I had children. Like you said, you're seeing yourself through your children's eyes.

[27:34] Karen Olivo: Yeah.

[27:34] Cara Cooper: And so you're like, I I would never want them to treat them themselves that way.

[27:38] Karen Olivo: No.

[27:38] Cara Cooper: So why am I doing it too?

[27:39] Karen Olivo: Oh my god. You know? Well, it helps you to just sort of check in too about like when you see them and they're so little and vulnerable, and we all were that at some point. So to treat ourselves with kindness and compassion and love and what we show to them, it's easier to sort of remember, like, oh, I should do that. We don't always succeed.

[27:58] Karen Olivo: No, no, certainly not. But um, but it certainly is a helpful reminder.

[28:03] Cara Cooper: Yeah. I want to talk about the fact that it's it is such a coup for you to be playing Satine.

[28:07] Karen Olivo: Yeah.

[28:08] Cara Cooper: And especially with, you know, how I how iconic that film is and what I probably the general public expected um visually in that part. Talk to us about the process of it. Take us down that journey that it was it's been years in the making.

[28:25] Karen Olivo: Yeah, two labs I guess two and a half years maybe yeah. Um, you know, like I I was a huge fan of that movie. The moment I saw it, I was like, yo, this is this is a musical. Like, what? What's happening? When is this gonna happen? When is this gonna happen? I know it took so long, so long. Um, never in a million years did I ever think I would be a part of it. Um, because I'm not a strong enough dancer to be one of the Moulong Bruce girls.

[28:53] Cara Cooper: Oh, you're killing it. I saw the show, you're doing great.

[28:55] Karen Olivo: But she's uh not um uh yeah, I mean, I thought that they were making a mistake when they asked me to audition.

[29:04] Karen Olivo: And then they're like, no, we're just like we're really reimagining it, and I was like, cool. And then uh when I guess when it's like that early in a process, you really can put a little bit more of yourself into it. And I learned that within the heights that you know like Vanessa existed for them, but she didn't exist three-dimensionally until I walked in the room, and uh so I just kept throwing up stuff inside the room, and then it would end up being in the show. And so I tried to do that with Satine. Um having just become a new mom, that sort of maternal instinct that Satine has and her protection of the people that are sort of with her and knowing that she's the breadwinner for the entire you know, that sort of thing became very um it it it was at the forefront of everything.

And so, you know, in the movie, it's more about her wanting to be an actress and get away. And in our version, she wants to keep bread on the table and doors open so that her family can have a place to live, which I completely identified with. Um, you know, there was not as much discussion about me looking different, um, which I being someone who is definitely um, you know, a woman of color, it would have been nice if that had been. Um, I felt very comfortable though in the room having Sonia Taya, she's the only woman on the creative team. Uh I I felt comfortable because there was uh there was more of an emphasis put on me feeling feeling empowered.

[30:46] Cara Cooper: Yeah, yeah.

[30:46] Karen Olivo: Well, she's a powerful, I mean, just from the audition process a couple years ago when I went through it, like her energy is she's a badass.

[30:54] Cara Cooper: Yeah, yeah.

[30:54] Karen Olivo: She's not gonna take shit.

[30:56] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[30:57] Karen Olivo: I felt protected.

[30:58] Cara Cooper: Yeah, exactly.

[30:58] Karen Olivo: She was on your side.

[31:00] Cara Cooper: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[31:00] Karen Olivo: So there was never a point at which I felt like I was um, I didn't feel tokenism or anything like that because I could look out and see another woman of color, Sonia, staring in my face. Um it yeah, at points I thought that it would be hard to be labeled the courtesan and to have all of these horrible tragedies befall a woman of color, and that you know, it's we're as just as a general society, we we love to see people go through things. We're more attuned to watching women of color suffer. That's something that we, you know, Halle Berry won her first Oscar for it, you know, like things like that are very that's always I I always think about that, but there was a way that it was approached with Alex Timber's very gentle hand that I felt comfortable and secure in that.

Um it's still an issue for me, you know, because I, you know, we're past the point of New Yorkers coming to see the show. Now there are a lot of people from elsewhere that are coming to see the show that are not as open-minded, I would say. Um, and you know, there's such a fascinating there's a huge buildup before I come on. I'm you know, Satina's spoken about she's the most this, that, and the other. She's, you know.

[32:27] Cara Cooper: So there's a lot of that.

[32:28] Karen Olivo: And you can feel that.

[32:30] Cara Cooper: Oh, absolutely.

[32:31] Karen Olivo: I mean, there's without a without a doubt. Um I've, you know, I come down on the swing and I'm like in the audience, basically. And there are a lot of times uh that what I want to hear is a like, oh, she's the sparkling diamond. And sometimes I don't hear that. Sometimes I hear dead silence, it's quiet. And so I'm like, oh, right, right, right, right. They don't know who you are. They don't know why you look like this. Um, you've been announced, they know that you're coming. So in the story, these people know that you're the sparkling diamond and they don't know how to react. So now the work begins.

[33:09] Cara Cooper: Oh, here we go.

[33:10] Karen Olivo: Yeah. And but that's okay because if you think about it too, it's a very meta. Satine is an underdog. She comes from the gutter. She's clawing her way out. So it just it becomes a little bit of um a more of an emotional journey for me.

[33:26] Cara Cooper: Yeah, clawing your way into their psyche.

[33:28] Karen Olivo: Yeah. Yeah, you're gonna love me. Watch. You're gonna love me.

[33:30] Cara Cooper: Right.

[33:31] Karen Olivo: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it doesn't mat it. Shouldn't matter.

[33:34] Cara Cooper: Yeah, it shouldn't matter.

[33:35] Karen Olivo: I'll just show you that it shouldn't matter exactly. Right. Because telling the story has nothing to do with that.

[33:41] Cara Cooper: Nah, it doesn't.

[33:42] Karen Olivo: But there's also power in that someone seeing that visually and experiencing the entire show and seeing you go through that entire journey. And hopefully, I don't know, you know, by the end of it, it not being an issue for them.

[33:55] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[33:56] Karen Olivo: You know, I I I don't know. I can't speak to the experience, obviously. I would hope that for those the people who are, you know, people who are not of color, it's not an issue by the end. But what I do know for a fact is that when I go to the stage door, the number of girls who look like me who are standing there sort of stunned and thank me for just existing because I've created space for them in a place in which they didn't feel that there was space. That is the thing that I hope it always matters because that's changing the way that they see the world.

[34:29] Cara Cooper: And they see themselves.

[34:30] Karen Olivo: Yeah. Yeah, there's a girl last night. I cannot forget her face. She was just, she was really great. She like gave me her play bill. She looked at me, she's like, Can you sign this? And I was like, Yeah. And when I looked at her face, I was like, oh my God, she looks like me. Like she looks like like a young version of me, like a like an 18-year-old version of me. And then I signed it, and she's like, Could I have a picture? And I was like, Yeah. And then her mother, who looked like my mom, was standing behind her. She's like, You don't understand, she loves her. She loves you. And then the girl started to cry, and she looked sort of like not embarrassed, but like it's actually happening. Like she was like, the thing that I've been waiting for is happening right now. And she kind of like went inward, and I was like, You're good. But I was like, that was me, you know. I staged door, like I didn't see anybody who looked like me.

[35:20] Cara Cooper: I was gonna say the time when we were no, that was it was so different.

[35:25] Karen Olivo: And to see you in a role where it's not a person of color because it needs to be exact in terms of the story, you know, you're not it's not the color. It's part of the storytelling. It's not part of the storytelling, you're just a person, yeah.

[35:39] Cara Cooper: And that is something that is rare, it's changing some, but these are the moments when that is we can see that.

[35:48] Karen Olivo: Yeah, the changes happening, it can be slow, yeah. Um, but yeah, and wonderful that Alex and the team and everyone, you know, that they isn't it crazy that we even have to say how wonderful, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, isn't it crazy that that that is still our site our our mentality about it? Like it should be just like, yeah, anybody can play this part. Yeah, the color doesn't matter.

[36:10] Cara Cooper: I mean, and something that I read was that Latinos in this industry, they're less than three percent of active members of actors equity, yeah.

[36:10] Karen Olivo: Less than three percent, so man, that's wild, you know. And I think a huge part of that is because of the lack of um not seeing them, you know, back before, like it was definitely themselves. They didn't see themselves, and so you can't see a if you can't see a place for you, then how do you know there can be one?

[36:39] Cara Cooper: Right, right.

[36:40] Karen Olivo: And um but for you as a kid, you did it without seeing it, without I didn't have a choice though.

[36:48] Cara Cooper: We've I forgot about that.

[36:49] Karen Olivo: Right. Right.

[36:50] Cara Cooper: The dad drama teacher.

[36:52] Karen Olivo: Well, and you know, what Lynn has done at Lynn Manuel Miranda and Um Hamilton alone. I mean, before that, obviously, but Hamilton has just blown the door, I think, wide open in a way and made musical theater accessible to maybe kids who would never have given it a second thought.

[37:09] Cara Cooper: Absolutely.

[37:10] Karen Olivo: Um, and it's just astounding. And it's so wonderful that that's happening. And so many people are finding us and finding the world that we can create.

[37:19] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[37:20] Karen Olivo: And be inspired to to do it where they live. And it's awesome. And that kind of circles back to what you were talking about with um education and in different socioeconomic situations and how important bringing theater education is to all the children.

[37:37] Cara Cooper: Absolutely.

[37:37] Karen Olivo: Yeah.

[37:38] Cara Cooper: Yeah, for sure.

[37:39] Karen Olivo: Um, well, I know. This was I think that might be is there anything you want to talk about?

[37:44] Cara Cooper: Well, wait, we should talk about before we go. We should talk about the fact that you're not here alone.

[37:48] Karen Olivo: Oh, right. Right, right. We're being filmed.

[37:51] Cara Cooper: Hey, um documentary. Tell us what that's all about. What's happening?

[37:55] Karen Olivo: Yeah. We've been filming for many years. I can't even remember how long. It's been since in the heights, actually. We've been we've been acquiring footage since then over my career. Um, just doing like some small little check-ins uh to talk about life and what it's like to make art and um sort of it's sort of developed into a conversation about the intersection of commerce and art and how sometimes uh there will be well there'll be a struggle based on that. Um and so now we're actually we're really just doing it. We're actually we have so much footage um and we're gaining more, and um we're starting to go out and talk to other people who have uh interesting stories and we're making something and I really feel like there's an educational component to it because there is such now with social media the way that we're like we're curating our existence, and there are so many kids who look to social media to see what the world looks like.

It's not a direct depiction of what's happening, right? And the not that I'm someone who thinks that you must revel in the struggle, but the struggle is part of the learning process, and the great stuff only happens when you understand what you had to go through to get there. And I feel like there's a when I teach kids, I see this sort of disconnect. Um they have an idea of what it's supposed to be like, and if they do if they don't see that immediately, they they think that they haven't gotten it. And hopefully with this documentary, we'll be able to shed a little bit more truth to what it's like to be an artist and to make things. And there's a there's sort of a duality that exists that it's it can be bad and good at the same time.

And if we can show them that in a medium in which they'll understand because they're not gonna listen to Ted talks, right? You know, if they don't watch Ted Talks, um, they maybe they can enter the field with a little bit more confidence, and when the things hit them, they don't they don't get flattened and they don't decide that they're not good enough. They go, Oh, right, I remember I saw in that documentary. Things can get really bad, and then I pick myself up and it's gonna be fine. Um, so I that's the longest explanation of what the documentary is about. Um, but yeah, that's what we're doing.

[40:21] Cara Cooper: That's so that's so I love that you have footage from such a long time.

[40:24] Karen Olivo: I know that's incredible.

[40:26] Cara Cooper: Is that wild?

[40:27] Karen Olivo: Sure, it must be to go back and look at it.

[40:29] Cara Cooper: Oh my gosh.

[40:30] Karen Olivo: I see some of the stuff and I'm like, oh baby Karen. Like it looks like I'm I just came out of the box. It's shocking.

[40:38] Cara Cooper: I would love to go back and see something.

[40:39] Karen Olivo: I mean, I can't wait now. I'm super excited.

[40:42] Cara Cooper: Well, I think it's important. I think there's a generation coming up, like you said, that the instant gratification and the expectation that they should come out of the box fully formed and ready to go. And I find this sometimes with work that there is a lack of willingness to work hard.

[41:01] Karen Olivo: Yeah.

[41:01] Cara Cooper: And uh put in the effort.

[41:03] Karen Olivo: Right.

[41:04] Cara Cooper: And um maybe, you know, I even see this with Elliot actually, with my child. Like she, she'll try something, and if she's not good at it right away, she wants to stop.

[41:14] Karen Olivo: Yeah.

[41:15] Cara Cooper: And I'm like, Elliot, you gotta keep practicing because that's when you get better. I was like, you know, mom didn't dance like that when she was five. You know, you have to work hard. But it's sometimes it can be difficult to get them to lock in.

[41:28] Karen Olivo: I think that we're in a world now where the the expectation is just well, and we're we're just um expected to have so much output, right? Like social media, everything, putting it out there and having it be perfect. And the creation of art is such a process, and there are so many drafts that are terrible to begin with. That to get to that final, and it's never final, please. Every performance you out there, I could have done that different. Or I'm sure every production that goes up, there are things that end up in a Broadway show that you're like, that could have been better. You know, it's never art is never fully finished. Yeah. Um, but you need to fall, and you need to fall and pick yourself up again to make it better.

[42:08] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[42:08] Karen Olivo: I think process is the thing that I I see lacking in most. They they don't even understand like how to get themselves ready to do something.

[42:17] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[42:17] Karen Olivo: No. You know? They they put on the outfit and they have their music.

[42:21] Cara Cooper: Right.

[42:22] Karen Olivo: And they're like, oh, I'm ready to go. And I'm like, where is your heart and where is your head? Right. Like, I know you've warmed up your voice and you have your money notes, but you're not connected to anything.

[42:31] Cara Cooper: You're floating in space.

[42:33] Karen Olivo: Yeah. It's not just about belting and ease. Oh God. You know what I mean? It's like Please know. I mean, it yeah, but it seems like it is something. That's the world we live in right now. The flashier the better, the more impressive the better, but that's not storytelling or what we're striving for.

[42:47] Cara Cooper: So no, we got to take care of our hearts and our heads, like you said, and our bodies. Which you are the perfect embodiment of taking care of yourself and listening to yourself. So thank you for that.

[42:56] Karen Olivo: Yes, and thanks for being here with us.

[42:58] Cara Cooper: Absolutely, guys. We're so happy you came.

[43:07] Jessica Rush: Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Mama's Talkin' Loud. Special shout-outs to Rachel Spencer Hewitt for our fabulous graphic. Kristen Anderson Lopez, Bobby Lopez, and Justin Ward Weber for our awesome theme song. Our producers Dori Berinstein, Alan Seales, and of course the Broadway Podcast Network for bringing us to you. If you like what you're hearing and you want to keep the conversation going, you can follow us on Instagram and Facebook. And of course, subscribe and review us wherever you listen to your podcast. Thanks so much for tuning in.