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[0:00] Jessica Rush: Hey everyone, welcome to this episode of Mamas Talkin' Loud.

[0:39] Cara Cooper: I'm Cara Cooper, and you're listening to our episode with Nini herself from Moulin Rouge, Robyn Hurder.

[0:39] Robyn Hurder: Uh uh oh, uh uh oh.

[0:39] Robyn Hurder: Uh oh, Mama's talking loud, mom is talking loud, mom is talking tough, mom is talking how being good with good enough.

[0:39] Robyn Hurder: Mama's talking life, mom is talking proud, mama talking trash, mama's talking live.

[0:39] Jessica Rush: Hey everybody, welcome to this episode of Mamas Talkin' Loud.

[0:38] Cara Cooper: I'm Cara Cooper, and today we have Nini herself from Moulin Rouge, Robyn Hurder with us.

[0:46] Robyn Hurder: Hello.

[0:46] Jessica Rush: Hello.

[0:49] Cara Cooper: From her bedroom, it looks like.

[0:51] Robyn Hurder: I am in my bedroom.

[0:56] Robyn Hurder: Because that's only on to be alone from my child.

[1:01] Cara Cooper: Oh, what is that being away from your child?

[1:04] Robyn Hurder: I don't think any of us know what that feels like anymore, right?

[1:07] Cara Cooper: Oh gosh.

[1:08] Robyn Hurder: Yeah, I know. It's been it's so funny. I mean, we'll probably talk about this more, but like we're always talking about trying to find balance, and we're like, I have to go to work all the time, and I don't spend any time with my kid, and I want more time with my kid, and then you know the world is slapped with a pandemic.

[1:28] Robyn Hurder: They're like, here you go.

[1:31] Cara Cooper: Yeah.

[1:33] Robyn Hurder: I actually dreamt, I dreamt of half hour last night, you guys. I dreamt of half hours.

[1:40] Robyn Hurder: I was like, oh, wouldn't that be nice to go to half hour and not be stuck in this apartment?

[1:46] Cara Cooper: But wouldn't it be nice to go anywhere?

[1:50] Robyn Hurder: Right.

[1:51] Cara Cooper: I know. I mean, I'm just really missing humans.

[1:55] Robyn Hurder: Like a human, I mean, Zoom is great. I'm so happy that we have all this technology, but there is a big difference between looking at someone on a screen and actually feeling the energy of a human being in front of your face.

[2:07] Robyn Hurder: You know what I mean? And that's really what's starting to mess with me is just having any real human interaction.

[2:16] Cara Cooper: That's on a screen.

[2:18] Robyn Hurder: And I imagine we're all just frying our brains and our corneas for these next few months.

[2:25] Cara Cooper: That is true.

[2:30] Robyn Hurder: Just saying with humans.

[2:32] Robyn Hurder: I'm being a real person. It's like that, it's like that movie Wally, right? Where they're like all they're like in their chairs just looking at screens, but the person's right next to them, but we don't have that option, you know?

[2:44] Cara Cooper: It's wild.

[2:45] Jessica Rush: Let's jump in. Tell us about your son Hudson.

[2:51] Robyn Hurder: Uh my son Hudson is six years old, and he is um a lot. He's just a lot. I mean, obviously, having a child is obviously the best thing in the world, but he is the most challenging thing I have ever encountered in my life.

[3:23] Robyn Hurder: Like challenging me as a person, as a human. He makes me especially you're getting me at a really sensitive time where I'm like, I can't mother. Um, he really is is so challenging. I know it's going to, I'm gonna look back at this in 10, 20 years and be like, wow, he really has made me such a better person.

[3:50] Robyn Hurder: But right now, him and I are uh we we challenge. He's very, very smart. He is very smart, but he's a basket case. Like he is his energy is all over the place. He has so much energy. He has um he really really loves us. I have to keep saying that. It's just he wants to be on me all the time because he really loves me.

[4:14] Robyn Hurder: Like he's an only child, and he needs to be with us at all times, and especially during this pandemic. It's it's been just challenging. I think that's probably a word that a lot of mamas are are using these days. But he is um, he's a special soul, and I know that he's going to do something incredible when he grows up.

[4:38] Robyn Hurder: I don't know what it is, but I'm like, kid, you've got something inside you that you're gonna take over some form of the world. So not that I want to wish those years away, but it's it's gonna be exciting to see what he grows into.

[4:50] Cara Cooper: For real. And I I hear you about the energy, the non-stop, you know, Elliot's an only as well, and so same. You know, it's like always wanting to be with us and wanting us to engage. And the other day I I literally I went into the kitchen and started crying because otherwise I would have screamed like, I don't want to play anymore like a host.

[5:15] Cara Cooper: You know what I mean? Like, I was just like, it's like with I've gotten to where the word pretend sets me off on like this right almost rageful inside. You know what I mean? It's like, mom, pretend this. Mom pret Yeah, it's totally a trigger. It's like, oh god, I don't want to anymore.

[5:33] Robyn Hurder: But um I know this is special time. I mean, like, like you guys, you guys are usually on show schedules, and so we aren't home with them at night. And it is really special that they get to sit down with us at dinner and everything, but man, the exhaustion at the end of a day with with our kids for 12 hours of awake time.

[5:53] Jessica Rush: Right.

[5:54] Robyn Hurder: Is real.

[5:55] Cara Cooper: It's so real.

[5:56] Robyn Hurder: It is real. And I'm I'm I'm grateful that this is this is I mean, it's happening. Like how do I say it? I I would not, if I was in a show schedule, I would not be able to do these seven in the morning till eight o'clock at night.

[6:15] Robyn Hurder: Um, because my body does not allow it. Like, I can't, I can't like Clyde will get up every morning when I'm in the show with with Hudson. I try to get up three times a week just to get him to school so I can actually see his face before he goes to school. And then I go back to sleep, but I can't, my body can't wake up before 8:30 or 9 after getting home at it's either 12 or 12:30 in the morning.

[6:38] Robyn Hurder: And uh it's so interesting though that even though it is exhausting the 12-hour days, it's so crazy that my body is like, yeah, okay, it's seven, I'll get up because I'm not doing anything.

[6:53] Cara Cooper: Right.

[6:54] Robyn Hurder: Physical, but it's not like doing, you know, Roxanne and and bad romance every night. You know what I mean? So it's interesting how my body is like, okay, fine, I have nothing to do today. It's amazing how I'm like, yeah, okay, I can handle it, but it is, it's just exhausting trying to entertain them all day.

[7:13] Cara Cooper: Let's face it, it's like you can be cute. And I've tried to be really, really cute with this like school schedule. An hour or two, it just all goes to shit. And he's I'm sending him to his room. He's in he's in the fridge trying to make his own lunch because he, I mean, we get in so many fights, and it's like I this is not normal.

[7:34] Robyn Hurder: No, I nothing about this. I prayed people who homeschool their children, but they're already in that mind school mindset to homeschool their children, but but throwing this on us, and it's getting more and more intense because I think they're realizing that like bitches ain't going back.

[7:51] Cara Cooper: Yeah, I was gonna say, are you guys because Kara and I were texting because I was saying Elliot is really starting to have some epic meltdowns, and that's so unlike her. She doesn't tend to do that. But I think, and she said the same with Finn, and now you're saying that with Hudson. And I think it's like I think they're realizing like the anomaly has worn off, right?

[8:11] Robyn Hurder: Like it's like uh it's like, oh, well, this is uh yeah, this is what we're doing now, and they are not having it. And also themselves, like Elliot's super social. I imagine it looks like Hudson is from you know your social media, and it's like they miss being with other kids and just being in their classes or at the playground or seeing their teachers.

[8:33] Cara Cooper: And yeah, we can only do so much.

[8:35] Robyn Hurder: So well, and even when you mentioned homeschooling, when people homeschool, they can still go to the playground, they go to museums, they go that that's not the same as what we're doing right now, you know?

[8:47] Cara Cooper: It's just not the same.

[8:50] Robyn Hurder: It's not yeah, and it's just not it's just not normal. And that's the thing. Like, I've started the past um I guess the past almost two weeks now. Um, I'm like getting out of it now because I'm forcing myself to like snap out of my like I would call it maybe a very slight depression because of just um the reality of our situation right now is is hitting in.

[9:16] Robyn Hurder: It's really when they announced the extension of of the Broadway shutdown, even though we all were obviously it was all gonna happen. We were not going back to work yesterday. Um but it just it just hit me because the reality set in that I'm like this is this is another two months of not seeing anybody.

[9:38] Robyn Hurder: I I can't even go see my dad. Hudson can't do soccer, he can't be with his friends at school. And and so I get down and then I forget that my little my little boy is like we're like ET. And whatever I feel, he's like, and he feels it, and then we start fighting back and forth.

[9:58] Robyn Hurder: I mean, the relationship is I don't even know what it's gonna turn into when he's a teenager, but we're very, very similar and we're very connected, like scarily connected, and that often causes like a lot of problems. And I need to remind myself, and I think just you said that or or Kara, like on your social media, that like we need to remember that this is also really messed up for them, and they can't show it the way they're not mature enough to show it the way we are.

[10:26] Robyn Hurder: They show it through melting down, the talking back, the talk the talking back to me. I am like, are you kidding me right now? The way that you think that you can just do that. The the lack of respect, and it's like, and then you have good days and bad days, and you realize I'm like, they're just being an emotional mess like me, except it's the six-year-old version and a boy, or you know, or a young girl, or and I just need to remind myself that they're going through the same shit we're going through.

[10:55] Robyn Hurder: It's just a different, it's a different setting. It's a you know, he I try to do what you know, Mrs. Navara does in her class, and he's like, she doesn't do it. You she doesn't do that. I'm like, I know I'm your teacher, so just do it. And I had to yell at him the other day, like scream at him. And it's like the worst thing to do.

[11:15] Robyn Hurder: But I'm like, you think I want to do this? I don't want to do this. Like, I shouldn't be your teacher, Hudson, but this is what we have to do. And I said, You're so so smart. This is so easy for you. Let's just do it and get it over with.

[11:28] Cara Cooper: Right.

[11:29] Robyn Hurder: Yeah. Get over with.

[11:30] Robyn Hurder: So we can like go and and then I'm like, oh God, now I have to go and do do something else.

[11:34] Cara Cooper: Right.

[11:35] Robyn Hurder: Right, exactly. Now we're schools done. Now we're stressed. And I'm like, bitch, I'm like, I don't know. And he's like, the mom teach me. And I'm like holding up this booklet, and I'm like, this is just learn again. I'm like, oh man, just I I love Monday through Friday when there's structure and there's at least a couple, just a couple, you know, I have a couple hours of school.

[12:01] Robyn Hurder: Elon and Cara have hours and hours, but like the structure of having just some time that I know Monday through Friday, we have to focus on schoolwork is so helpful.

[12:11] Cara Cooper: And this week was supposed to be spring break for New York kids for city kids, and they're doing like uh a a school light situation. So there aren't actually things that we have to accomplish. They're just like, today's rainbow day, color a rainbow and hang it on your window, or today's charades day, play charades.

[12:29] Robyn Hurder: And I'm like, could y'all give me some more work sheets, please? I mean, they full on canceled spring baker we are. They cancel continue to do to do work.

[12:38] Cara Cooper: Yeah, I think Merch is supposed to be next week, and I'm assuming they're gonna give more work, but that's the thing, like, and that's it's the same way. It's like also I'm not like saying like my kid's advanced, but he should be in the first grade. He missed the cutoff by 20 days, and he's like we get smart.

[12:56] Robyn Hurder: And the stuff that they're doing, I'm like, he's like, click, and that's the other thing. Everything is on the screen, which drives me nuts. Like it literally drives me crazy because I'm like, don't give him another YouTube like book to listen to. I'm like, or you have to click on like Raz Kids or whatever, and he's on a screen.

[13:17] Robyn Hurder: I'm like, he reads so well, but you have to turn it in, because now they're doing the thing where they're like a new grading system where you have to submit. They're they're you have to log in your books and you've taken this quiz. I'm like, so basically, you know, he's looking at a screen all day.

[13:33] Robyn Hurder: Great. When we really the one thing I really try to do is limit that, you know, of him watching TV or playing a video game. I always allow it because Jesus, when I was a kid, I was just like, Sega.

[13:47] Robyn Hurder: And also survival. Also, mommy needs a minute. Can I take some and chop some onions? Thanks.

[13:56] Cara Cooper: Well, I love, I mean, but that's something like you are so, you know, hands on with him in the kitchen, letting him help, you know, and that's math and that's science. And those so that's just another way to learn it, you know.

[14:08] Robyn Hurder: And I and I think it's great. He's in there with you almost every day. I can see on your story. It's like you guys are cooking together.

[14:15] Robyn Hurder: No, it's good, it's good. And and we try, you know, the the the PE activities all of them just like anything with like music and physical education. I just I'm like just bashing it. Whatever. But I'm like, you know, he's writing songs with Clyde, like he's learned, you know, four chords on the yuke.

[14:34] Robyn Hurder: And so I need to remember that we are teaching it. It's just like his school system is incredible. That's why we moved all the way out here. But they're very much like turn it in, turn it in, turn it in. This is your assignment, turn it in. When I guess I submit videos of me dancing like a hooker in the basement with my kids.

[14:55] Robyn Hurder: You could say, just look at my Instagram. I'm terrified. I'm like, I wonder if the moms have because I'm like not really like that involved, and like I'm not on the PTA or anything like that. But I wonder if any of those moms after me. The good news is I'm Robyn Hurder. I don't know if they'll catch on, but man, if they saw my Instagram, I'll be like, what is that hookah? Literally. I find it hilarious. Oh my god. I love it. Girl, you know, they already are like, she's on Broadway. You know, it's like they have an idea in their head of what we are anyway, you know. That I'm sure they wouldn't be that surprised. They'd be like, well, of course. Of course, she's dancing. You know, because we're all just crazy, you know, carnival folk.

I don't know. Yeah, circus folk, exactly. Yeah, one of these things is not like the other in my town. It's so interesting. But it's kind of like where I grew up, like in Maine. I it's very like I live in Highland Mills, which is right next to the Woodbury Commons, and it's like very middle class, working class, blue collar, hasn't really changed from like the 60s through 80s, like has not changed. And um small town, it's great. I love it. I think it's a great way for him to be raised, you know. I well, and you've got your yard is unreal. No, and that's I mean I'm looking out my window right now, and I can see the mountains and I mountains that we hike on, and I'm just like, damn, to be to be in a pandemic and to be have to be isolated somewhere.

I'm so so grateful. Like, I I I don't ah man, I don't know. It's hard. I can't imagine families in in an apartment with I can't either. Kids. I can't either. I mean, I'm so I'm so grateful that Eric said come out here like right away when Broadway shut down. He's uh uh in is it La Jolla, yeah. He was doing fly out here, and he was like, come here. He's like, I just don't want to go to New York right now and be stuck in our apartment. You know, and so glad it made all the difference. We have a patio here, the sun is shining, we can go for walks, and you know, I'm just super thankful and La Jolla's letting us stay, and we we live here now, so basically it makes such a difference. Also the weather, it's that's so great.

Oh yeah, oh yeah, for sure. New York could really like you know, whip it into shape with the weather. I mean, it's been pretty the past couple days, but it's been cold. And I'm gonna tell you what, that day that we we were supposed to record my hour went out for like eight hours. I was like, where's the next table? Let me flip it. Like I was like done, throw me a bone. Of course, I cooked a huge meal, and we were gonna like load the dishwasher and do all the in all of the dishes are dirty, all every single one of them. And then all of a sudden, we were on a well, so then all of a sudden I'm like, use Hudson, don't flush the toilet, don't wash your hands, just use a wipe. I'm like, we only have the water that's left in the pump.

And of course, every time just flushing the toilet wash and with the thing, wash his hands. And all of a sudden I turn on the clock with like I can't. I'm like, we need to go get water, we need to go get water, we need water, we need wipes paper plates. And then when we came back, basically, we went for a walk, and then when we came back, the power was back on. But I mean, I was just like, oh Lordy, Lordy Lou, Mother Nature, you gotta you got a wicked sense of humor.

[18:33] Cara Cooper: Yes, she does. Yes, she does. She's like, I'm really gonna put y'all through it. Um we let's roll back a little bit, right? Because yeah, we could probably we had planned to talk to you or had you I will keep talking. No apologies, please. There's a lot to talk about right now. Um, but we had had you on the books before this was even thought, I think in anybody's mind that we were gonna be shutting our houses for months and months, months. Um, and we kind of wanted to talk to you about coming back from baby, right? So, Robyn, you and I were in uh a good friend's wedding. Jess, she's one, she was one of our Jersey girls with us. Um I was there. That's there. But I remember you, and and I hope that's okay that I say this, but I remember you expressing that you were struggling.

It was hard. I don't know how old Hudson was at that point. Is he maybe like okay, nine months. Um and you, I could just see it on your face uh that you were having a hard time. And I I think that people certainly in in social the social media world would never have known that that was part of your journey to come back from motherhood, right? To have a baby and then kind of re-enter, you know, the theatrical world in the way that you did with such success. Um I think it's really great for us to talk about the not so pretty part of it.

[20:01] Robyn Hurder: Oh god. So I do. I feel like I'm like I'm convincing women not to have babies because I'm like, I'll tell you the real. I'm like, of course you love your child. Of course it's the best thing that's ever happened to you. Of course. That's a no-brainer. You know what I mean? It's like it does not mean that it was easy or that you don't wish for a time when things were slightly different with your body or with your mindset or your emotions. I mean, my God. No, no, I've I I talk about it so openly because I I feel like it's healthy because I can you and I think we all experience those mothers that give us the that impression, whether it's in person or on the socials, that everything is just perfect.

And um, it's just a total lie. Because it's not you're you're it that first year is is traumatic. It's traumatic. And I will say, and it's not, I don't want to say that like, oh, us as as performers, we're we're different, but it is different. Um, we don't get, I mean, it is nice we we we get a let's say a maternity leave if we're in a long running show or or whatever, but it's not like you get three months off and then you come back to work. You can't come back to work. I mean, sorry, I could not come back to work physically. Um that's a big one. Physically, mentally, emotionally, I was not ready. I knew when I had a had the baby that I needed to take a year because I was like, A, these 25 pounds are not coming off, and I get cast as things that don't wear clothes.

Um, I'm insane. And I need to work on myself because I'm let me just say, let me let me start with the reason why I had a baby, and because the reason why I had a baby because I don't think I want to do musical theater anymore.

[22:04] Robyn Hurder: I was too- I did not know that, Robyn. I wanted to quit. I was not go, I was not going through. I originated Jeannie in Nice Work If You Can Get It. And I was with my husband, and everything's so great. And I'm like, oh my God, I've originated, you know, a principal role on Broadway. This is this was a huge goal of mine. And everything's great, but then I I realized this a this is a massive cast, and we've got massive, like 10, 11 principles, and then you've got like a massive ensemble, and I come from the ensemble world. I'm a dancer, true. Like I started there, so I relate with them. Because of my show schedule, like my show at like every night, I was not hanging out with them. And those are the, I mean, and they're all my friends, all vets.

I ever ever they're all my friends. But I never felt I could connect with them. And then I'm like, people, even though I love all of the principal cast, Matthew Broderick, Kelly O'Hara, Judy Kay, Mike McGraw, like all these people, but they're like, you know, talking about all their like fucking Tonies and things that I'm like, I am not there. Like, I have nothing to talk about at all. And I was in this place in the middle because Jeannie is like the dumb blonde chorus girl from Brooklyn. That's like, she's right, she's a principal, but like, let's be honest, she's just like, she got a cute song. And uh, you know, she's in the front for some of the dance numbers, you know what I mean? It's like, I know, I know, I know my place, and but I felt like I couldn't connect with anybody, and I started to feel the not necessarily from my from my cast.

I'm not talking about my cast. I think about the business, it was a lot of self-absorption, like everyone was very focusing on themselves, and it made me really sad, and I'm like, I'm this isn't me, and I'm getting jealous of people talking about certain things, and I'm wondering who's auditioning for what, and I'm getting really anxious and it's not making me feel good. And I've been thinking about having a baby, and I realized that's what it was. I it was time for me to give myself away for a second. And I said to Clyde, I said, I think it's time I need to do the most selfless thing, and I I think I need to have a baby. And he goes, well, let's go. And I'm like, I can't, I can't we don't have any money, we don't have that.

And he said it's all gonna work out. And I say this, I say this in interviews all the time. Kelly O'Hara gave me the best advice. She said, Robin, it's never gonna be the right time. You're never gonna have enough money, and there's always gonna be a job you're gonna miss out on. So if you if you just keep that in your mind, it's never gonna happen, then it's gonna be too late. And she's like, you can come back. Anybody can come back if you really want it. And I was like, I just feel like I don't know what I want to do because right now I'm not happy performing eight times a week, and I should be happy doing a principal role on Broadway, and something's wrong.

[24:50] Robyn Hurder: So I get pregnant, and my pregnancy was kind of fine. It was well, it wasn't fine. It was um I wasn't sick, thank God. A little little nosh, but nothing, nothing major at all. Um, when I was 20 weeks, I went in for the anatomy scan, and I it was uh he was diagnosed with multi-cystic dysplastic kidney disorder. His left kidney was filled with cysts, and there was nothing we could do about it until he came out, right? And so, but we had to go through the genetics testing, all that. I mean, it was it was terrifying. Um anyway, right when that happened, my I have a very I've torn my disc, um, my L5S1, and I couldn't walk basically for the rest of my pregnancy. Like, like, couldn't walk. It was the sciatica, the pain was so bad that I would get up and fall down because I couldn't actually put any weight on my left side.

And uh ate a lot, got really fat, and not like that pregnancy fat. Like, I just sat and ate and gained 50 pounds. Like, and it was not baby things, it was just fat, like lard on me. So I had the baby, and you know, and we can talk about his his kidney stuff. He ended up having a surgery um at nine months. Um actually, it was three days after Katie's wedding.

[26:25] Cara Cooper: Oh, they'll tell me that.

[26:26] Robyn Hurder: No wonder you're having a hard time. It's like, what the fuck is going on in my life and my baby has to go into surgery um but thankfully they got the kidney out because it was like mess it was not good he would have developed two different kinds of cancers and probably wouldn't be here so thank you New York Presbyterian Columbia they're amazing um but anyway that at that time the thing sorry I'm all over the place I just talked in fragments but at that time as a musical theater girl that maybe is cast a certain way and she is known for being sensual and not wearing a lot of clothes and this is what I do and then all of a sudden someone snatched it. Also someone who's like always the last person closing out the bar, always a social butterfly all of these things and it someone just went and it's gone and I got really really fucked up over that where I was like everything about me is that I know like how I identify my myself is gone.

Like I don't I don't perform anymore I my body is really not it's not making me happy even though of course I'm growing a baby and it was amazing. The only good thing about pregnancy was feeling him move that was incredible until he stopped moving it you know he was breached so he sat his ass in my pelvis and his head was in one rib, feet were in the other rib for since 27 weeks and he didn't move because he was like nope, this is me the stubborn changed.

[28:05] Robyn Hurder: Um, but I uh uh where was I going with this um where's I going with it was snatched away from you oh yeah, I mean it was just the identity Yeah, I just didn't get to sing and dance on stage anymore, didn't get to uh uh talk to my friends, you know, because there's that thing where like once you become a mom, people obviously your friends do stay in touch with you, but everyone's gone out and they're like, oh, they don't even bother inviting you. Obviously, I wouldn't go anyway, but it's like when you are so I'm very social and I love to party. We all know that. That it's like, wow, okay, that's gone, and then that's gone, and then my body's gone, and then my mental state was probably the worst of it.

And it was at the time, even though I'm so grateful, Clyde was opening on the town on Broadway. And thank God, I mean, obviously, I was great, I was so grateful that we had a job, and he was having the time of his life. It was like starring in the show. There's he was doing everything that he wanted to do, and I'm sitting at home resenting him because I am so messed up. Like I'm no, I think that was really normal.

[29:17] Cara Cooper: That's not messed up. I think it's totally natural and normal to have that kind of feeling in that moment. Particularly exactly, but looking at it now, you're just like the things I said to him, but I realized that wasn't that wasn't me necessarily. I feel like I always say it's like hormones are like dragon juice, and you're like, you're you're hooked up to this IV, and then they're forcing you to take this drug that makes you crazy. And I'm so aware of myself because I'm so open, so honest, and so aware of my feelings.

[29:49] Robyn Hurder: And this was literally like, why am I actually saying these things and why am I thinking these things? It was literally like I was being drugged from like I don't know. It was really messed up. But um yeah, I went through my year and it was really hard. I mean, there are times when I even even people asking me to put put myself on tape when I was five months postpartum, and I look at videos now, and I didn't want to, and I would cry looking at the videos because I'm like, what's happened to me? Like, what's happened to me? And I'm like trying to read these sides and sing this song, and then the baby is crying, and I'm getting so frustrated, and I'm like, why am I even doing this? I thought I'd I wanted to take a break, and I don't want to do this.

And I don't know. That first year was a was a roller coaster, and I was bonkers. And then the really the first thing that kind of sparked my interest was um there was an audition for Kiss Me Kate for um uh DC Shakespeare Theater Company. And I went in and it was the first time I felt like I'd lost some of the weight and uh well, a good chunk of the weight because it did not come off. That I breastfed for a year, shit did not come off. Some people are like, oh my god, it's like magic, it just melts. He ate and he's still to this day. He never just sat. He's a grazer and he just was on me all the time. And it's like nothing has changed. If he's hungry, he literally it's like, Mom, I need food now.

I need food now. Mom, I'm so hungry, starving, I'm famished. I need food now. And that's exactly how he was as a baby. He would just, he has to snack all day long. And that's how I was glued to him. And then finally, at 11 and a half months, he just decided to not to. And I was like, oh, okay, yeah. Okay, you good? You good? Okay, okay, goodbye. And once I was so happy that he weaned himself and uh I could actually start thinking about what I was like actively trying to lose weight because obviously breastfeeding I'm not gonna go on a juice cleanse um so I started getting myself together went in for this audition for um kiss me Kate when he was just over a year like maybe 15 months and it wasn't happening for a long time and I ended up when I went in for that audition that's when I started to feel like that zing because it's a role I I've always always wanted to do and I got I got the got the job Clyde got Bill Calhoun so we were gonna be working opposite each other which was interesting and uh I remember working on that role and getting to create it Michelle Lynch was the was the choreographer and we got to really collaborate on always true and I all my dreams came true where we designed it where I it was like the whole number was like because you know she talks about like 15 guys she you know F. And I I got to I had this vision of like it's she's just like I want to do all I'm obsessed with pinups and I said I just want to do all those classic bargas L gren like I want to do all these iconic poses and move through it.

Like I'm a pinup cartoon come into life like I'm actually a cartoon not in a Mickey Mouse like walka walka scent but like you know what I mean like um I don't know I just wanted wanted to make this pinup girl come to life and that was when my entire world was like lit on fire again. My spirit came back. I was like, I need to keep going. This is what it's my love. It's my other passion. I realized this is the medicine. This is actually what brought me back and healed me. And I'm and uh when we were there, it was I was turning gosh, 30, 34, I think. And it was my birthday's January 1st, and Clyde took me out in DC, like all, you know, we bar hopped, we made pretend we, you know, we were in our 20s again and did the same kind of things we always did back then.

And I told him hammered, I was like, you know what, babe, tonight I'm getting a tattoo. He goes, okay. So we I went to this, we went to the Cuban club where I danced with like eight-year-old like men who just were we were still saying and he they were spinning me around. I was having the time of my life, having these deep conversations with Clyde being like, I feel alive again. And he he remembers that energy so clearly that he's like, that was like your rebirth. And I got, well, I'm showing you guys well, you guys have probably seen this. This is in my heart. Everyone's like, oh, what's that for? And I'm like, it's for me. Same thing with my stars. Everyone's like, oh, is that your family? And I'm like, nope, that's for me.

Remind myself that I I'm I'm sparkly. I have something special when people tell me I don't. But anyway, um that was uh that's that was kind of in a that was a long story, but my nutshell of like wanting to get pregnant, getting pregnant, going through the pregnancy, and then realizing I actually do need to do uh musical theater. It's the other half of me. And that's and now I'm in this place of like I have two major they're the loves of my life, and it is I need to perform. I need to make people feel something, and then I need to have my family and I need to have that time with them. And now we are in this aggressive tipping of the scales. Going back and forth. I'm never winning, always losing at at some point, whether it's, you know, I'm not I'm I'm feeling like crap at my job and maybe I had a really amazing night with my family, or it's, you know, during Moulin Rouge, I just feel like I'm never ever, ever home.

I'm because I'm constantly commuting or, you know, doing the show and I miss him. And now because he's in school full time, I don't see him really at all, except for Monday afternoons. Um but now I here we are, 24-7. So I just from one extreme to the other.

[35:52] Cara Cooper: Yeah. I just think it's amazing that you can pinpoint that that day. And I know it was your birthday, but like you can pinpoint that moment where the light flipped on again for real, like completely within yourself. Cause that first year is intense. I mean, and it continues to be intense, right? But like I mean, I was girl, I'm a member of the fit the gain fifty club as well. I gained fifty. I was like, and it's like and it is, I mean, and and for me at least there was part of it that was like, I can never eat whatever I want. Now's the time, you know. So I was eating all the cheese and you know, pasta and all the things, but it's a very real struggle. And I remember I remember us talking too about, you know, we were at that Smoky Joe's audition.

Like that would have been pr during that first year, I think, you know, and talking about the struggles of the weight and the motherhood and the nursing, and then um uh to see you just sort of take control again has been really inspiring, to be honest. I I I look at you and to have seen where you were, and I think a lot of us are in that place and we just don't talk about it, you know. I mean, after the fact we do. I remember Kara saying to me, I was really worried about you for a minute there, you know. But in the moment, we're not voicing that, right? To a certain degree. And um, and I just think I just think it's awesome that you were able to reclaim that part of yourself because it's it's a true struggle.

[37:21] Robyn Hurder: Thanks. I I I also think it was like I'm a I'm a firm believer in the law of attraction and the universe, and I just feel like it's it's all about timing. It's timing, and it was at that time when I got I always wanted to do that role, and the way I got to do it, the way uh I got I I got to do it the way I wanted. I got uh the perfect costume designer to build these amazing costumes for me. And then this amazing audience and like finishing that number, and it's like a it's a big band, it's jazz, it's in the 40s. It's like all of my dreams coming true, and I throw my arms down, there's a pin spot on me, and the audience goes, Nuts, it's all I've ever wanted. And I I finally got it, and it was like the best gift, and then I was like, okay, that's a drug now.

I need it all the time. It was a drug and and now I and I'm proud of myself because I worked really hard to get there, and now that has fed me even more. That's also a drug of I'm now like crazy. I want to work even harder with every show I've done. Like I want to do the work. It's the same, I believe that the universe, like when that came around, and I was not supposed to do this job, but I ended up doing the job was when Cassie came back to me for City Center, and that was the the absolute highlight of my career doing those, you know, five performances or whatever. It's all about timing. I I and I wouldn't, I wouldn't have been able to do that. And I don't think I would have been, I wouldn't be doing Nini if I did not have a child.

I I I promise you. I you have a different form of confidence and uh and you you grow in a certain way and you understand roles better and you have a deeper sense of yourself and you're more grounded, and there is that all that that scaredy little bullshit crap, insecurities and like meh that I was feeling when I was 30 years old and nice work. It's I look at that and I'm like, you were a kid. You were a kid, and you were 30, but you were not, you didn't understand what you know now. And I truly believe like having Hudson is the reason why I get to do one of my dream roles that I've wanted to do since I was 19 when I saw the movie Moulin Rouge and I saw Caroline O'Connor and I was like, I need to fucking be her in a sh it needs to be a Broadway musical and I need to do her.

And I was 19. And I'm, you know, not currently doing it at this moment, but I'll come back to it. One day, and uh I get to do what I've always another dream. I mean, this one's a hard dream eight times a week. Girl. It's so hard. It's worth it. You're incredible in the show, Robin. I texted her immediately afterwards, you guys, and just like all I could look at was you, truly. All I could look at on that stage was you. So all that passion that you're talking about, that rebirth that you were talking about. I mean, you like real life. Hearing you talk about it.

[40:26] Robyn Hurder: What's that? It's real love. It's like I I I love it so much. I mean I'm really aggressive on stage, but it's like I it's because I just I love it. And I'm not I'm not just doing it. I mean, God, we have like we have we have kids at home. I'm like, I'd rather you know, I don't know. I'm doing it. The only reason why I'm doing it, it's not for the money, it's literally for the love because we ain't making enough. We all know that.

[40:46] Cara Cooper: Exactly. And that's the thing. Like, if you're gonna be away from your kid, you have to make it worth it. And you're making it worth it every step of the way on that stage. It's incredible.

[40:55] Robyn Hurder: In play to love. I have not seen the show because we're well, other though, at some point I realized, oh wait, they have Thursday matinees and then the pandemic hit. But um, I I hadn't seen it, but we were both at that audition together, and you I mean, and I've I'm gonna sing your praise for a second, just give a little mama support over here. But like Robyn Hurder, you guys. I say this to people, I'm like, how does she do it? She is you are just it is in your soul, like being a dancer is in your soul to a degree that I I don't understand because I'm a very strong mover. And you know, the I I watch you in these auditions, and this was just one of them several we've been on together, but you learn the combo and then you add all the extra, and you're giving all that extra.

And the fact that your body and your brain makes that happen all in one. I mean, I left that day and I was like, it is Robin's job. I I texted Katie O'Toole and I was like, Robin is going to get this job. Like, that is you were balls to the wall the way that unlike anything I've seen, and I just I haven't seen you in the show, but what I saw in that audition room that day, I can only imagine what it has grown to. And I just say kudos to you for coming in and making it your bitch and being like, This is my gig. Stand back. Here I am.

[42:17] Robyn Hurder: Well, and again, it all it all comes from love. I mean, I I have a such a love-hate relationship with dance because it's hard. And I, you know, because I can sing, I can act, and I and I do I will I will say I've worked very hard because I haven't been given a lot of material with with my with my voach that my duty is to make this woman known through her body. And you have to be an actress first to be a really good dancer on a Broadway stage, I think. Um that's how you tell a story. But again, it's I just love dancing. I it's like I I've done it since I was six and it's been my first love. And even though sometimes I say I don't want to dance anymore, I just want to like stand and sing. Of course I want to do that to give my body a break, but I just love it.

I love dancing and I love performing because I I know it makes people feel a certain way. And that's that's the real drug is hearing the audience and we've just given them something for two and a half hours. And yeah, I just want to make people feel good. Make people feel happy, you know.

[43:20] Cara Cooper: Well, can you talk a little bit about um the juggle of them of motherhood along with for instance like your eighth show week? I mean, you've you touched on it about how you don't come home until like twelve or twelve thirty and the the sheer power and energy it probably it takes to be Nene.

[43:38] Robyn Hurder: Yeah, it's um my my schedule, so I l I my commute is with no traffic to the city to midtown to my garage. I I drive every day because I can't deal with the bus. Um, 'cause it's just it's an extra twenty five minutes because they make stops. And I'm just like, fuck it, I'm just getting in my car. Um, it's like an hour and five minutes if there's no traffic, right? And coming home at night, it's about 58 minutes if there's no traffic. Um, but you have to give yourself two hours because you don't know what that traffic and it's fine. I'm at the bridge in 40 minutes. It's when I hit the bridge that or the tunnel that it's like, here you go. Now you're gonna sit for another 45 minutes or whatever.

Um so on a on a day where like we have seven o'clock shows, I have to leave at like 3 30 just to be safe because I have to get to the theater so early because I have to put on five pounds of makeup. I have to have my wig, my my head prepped for the because my wake call is 7 30 or at half hour and I have to warm up.

[44:40] Robyn Hurder: I have lift call. I mean, it's just like God, long gone are the days where I show up at 7:28. And I mean, I was never like that. I mean, usually you get there at 7 or something like that, but this is like I have to be there if I have a two o'clock show. I'm there at 12:15. Um, so my son gets home at three. I have to be in the car at 3:30 on a seven o'clock show day. Um, so I see him for half an hour on Tuesday and Wednesday. I don't I try to get up on Thursday mornings because I have a matinee. So I get him off to school. I have to leave my house at 10:45 in the morning for a matinee. Don't see him all day or all night. And then Friday, I'm so tired that I can't see him in the morning because the two shows knock me out.

And also Thursday night, my show's at 8. We have a really long show, so I don't get out of the show till uh, basically a little bit before 11. I'm not home till 12 if there's traffic, 12:30. And I try to go right to bed, but it's just like I'm starving and I need a glass of wine, so I'm not going to sleep till like 1:30. And then Hudson's up at 6:45. And I try, but when I do that a lot, like try to get up. My body is always in so much pain from the show, and trying to get up in a timely fashion. Like it takes me 12 to 15 minutes to actually like get my body moving in laying flat to get up, put my two feet on the ground, try to go pee and you know, go on with my day. I mean, it's intense. But um, yeah, and then the weekends, it's like I don't see him really on Saturdays.

I see him in the mornings on Saturday. Sunday, we have a seven o'clock evening show. So Sunday day I have with him. And then Monday is my day off, and then Monday evening I have with him. And it's not okay, but it is what it is because I'm making providing. I this is I'm working hard, and I'm hoping that this leads to hopefully something else that requires less time of mine and pays me more.

[46:56] Cara Cooper: What do you mean?

[46:57] Robyn Hurder: I love the money. Um, but yeah, it's um I it's a constant battle. I always feel guilt. I'm at work. I've tried to FaceTime him as much as I can, but man, those FaceTime calls when he's crying because he misses you and he's like, I want you, mommy. And I'm just like, shoot me in the face. I know. But I know, and it's like, I but you know, Clyde's been so amazing. We've been, you know, going back and forth. Luckily, like before Moulin Rouge happened, Clyde was doing jobs so I could stay home with him. And ideally, that's how I want it to be. I do not want to be working at the same time. It's not cute. I mean, I keep telling Clyde because he's also going through it because he hasn't worked in a really he hasn't been on Broadway show since you know, On the Town.

And it's like he is his artistic spirit is dying. I want he wants to do it so bad. And of course, he got like a few great jobs, like little jobs coming up, and then this happened. Um, but I have to remind him all the time. I'm like, babe, I would gladly if you got a job that paid you thousands and thousands and thousands a week, I would be like, peace, Mulan, like let me take a break. But I'm like, if we were on the same schedule, seeing how far away we live and the commute time, we A would not make any money, and B, you would never we he would be raised by someone else, and we don't have the luxury of having family at all. We don't have it, we don't have access to it. My family's in Maine, his family's in Toronto, like it's like it's not happening.

So we would be paying for it, and it's gonna be someone, some kid that is gonna raise our kid. And are we having her take him to soccer class? Because he's gonna he's he's incredible, and his soccer is going to start picking up a lot, like it's gonna be multiple times a week. And I'm like, he needs to be raised by one of us, and so we need to be grateful that I do have this job, you're home, and hopefully she switches for a cute six to eight months, and we can volley off each other. That's our hope. So I don't know. It's really hard.

[49:10] Jessica Rush: It is, and also it's like connecting with my husband, he's asleep when I get home from work. I mean, it's like there's that side of it where I'm just like, we also need to look at each other and talk like we used to talk. And it's really hard to find that time because usually when I am looking at him, Hudson's there.

[49:27] Cara Cooper: Right.

[49:28] Jessica Rush: Yeah.

[49:29] Robyn Hurder: Well, right now, Hudson, I'm sure goes to bed about probably by like what nine?

[49:34] Cara Cooper: Yeah, he's like an 8:30.

[49:36] Robyn Hurder: He's like 8:30, but then we try to watch something and we're passing out by 10.

[49:40] Jessica Rush: We're the same girl, same.

[49:42] Robyn Hurder: I know. Jesus. I would I'd be in the middle of Roxanne right now, and I'm like, I've also drank copious amounts of alcohol.

[49:52] Cara Cooper: I think we all have.

[49:54] Robyn Hurder: I think we can speak for all mothers out there.

[49:56] Cara Cooper: Oh my God. No, it's it's true, but you talked about the both being on a show schedule because Graham and I went through that last year. And it was kind of perfect because I was technically vacation swinging, but I would be there for like months at a time. But I would always look forward to that little bit of time off because I would have my kids would have me putting them to bed at night rather than a babysitter. But same sort of thing. Like on a matinee day, we have to leave at 11 o'clock in the morning. And uh, you know, Elon gets off the bus at 3:30, we're on a train at 4 p.m. It's the same trade-off of living far away and you know, giving your kids this kind of suburban lifestyle and maintaining a career in theater is really, really hard. I mean, that's that's a big reason why we have not moved to the suburbs, you know what I mean?

[50:42] Robyn Hurder: And everyone just we you have to decide for yourself. I mean, it's also helpful that my parents are living with us and have been, although they're gonna move out soon. Um, but and that is helpful, but it's also you know, Eric and I talk about that all the time. It's like people say, When are you gonna move to Jersey? When are you gonna move to the burbs? And it's like, but if we move right now, I can leave the house at 5:45 for a seven o'clock show, you know, and 6:45 on Fridays, like on Friday I see her pick her up at 2:20, and I don't have to leave till 6:45, you know. So that's the trade-off, and it's a hard, it's a hard call. I think if we were to have had more than one, we would definitely have moved out to the burbs, I think, just because it's so hard, but um we're we're sticking it out right now for the time being.

[51:31] Robyn Hurder: Yeah, I have those moments, and I'm like, when we're rich and famous, we'll totally have have a our studio apartment in in the village, and it'll be great, but right now it's this is it, and we're so grateful. We live we really do live in a magical place, and I'm I wouldn't have it any other way, but I also agree, like it's what it's what you truly want. And we truly, when he turned two, I was like, I I'm a main girl, and I was like, I need to get out of here with my two-year-old. I'm like, I can't, I just can't do it. I'm I and I but I also realized I was switching, I was like not becoming, I wasn't a city girl anymore. I just was like, I used to love the city like the 20s, Clyde, and I blew it up.

Like we owned our the decade of the 20s, like we were insane. We lived it up, and it was such an amazing romantic, wild chapter of our lives. And then we had him, and we were like, Whoa, we need to like I need to go back to my roots, and it's weird how they do come out. And I said, I need to give him what I had, and I gave it to him. I mean, it's like quite literally how I grew up, like the setup of my house. Like the acreage, we're on a hill, the house is on a diagonal, we're in a Cape Cod. It's and he's learning so much and discovering so much. And you know, yeah, he's in the he's we're he's digging out the our bricks right now because we're trying to DIY our walkway. Clyde we're doing a lot of DIY at our house during this quarantine as well.

Wallpaper's been ripped down. I mean Clyde's trying no, it's not trying. He is becoming quite the handyman, but it's like it's Clyde. But I'm I need to say I'm gonna take a picture and send it to you guys of Clyde right now. He's like, he's like in his like coveralls, and like he's like working, the music's not he's got his hat on and his gloves, and Hudson's out there digging out these god-awful plans that I've wanted gone for so long, and you know, they're having a great time out there. He takes trees down, he literally we have uh dead wood in our backyard. We have uh an acre of just trees that have fallen down, so he's out there with the chainsaw cutting the wood, splitting it. We have wood for a fire in the winter, like it's it's it's so home to me, and I wouldn't have it any other way, but it is ooh, day in, day out of traveling into the city every day, dealing with traffic, getting in the car after I've done a show and get trying to get out of the car. That's the worst of my days at 11:55 where I try to get out of my car, and I yell, and I'm like your body frozen, just come all the lactic acid. I'm like rigor, it's so sad. Clyde's like, You okay?

[54:22] Jessica Rush: Oh man, but it's uh I'm I'm grateful. I'm grateful. Uh you know, people say, and I I posted this once, people say to me a lot, you god, how was it feel like to have it all? And I'm like, I think any mom is going to say, Are you fucking kidding me? No. We're all I'm always feeling like I'm failing. And I'm trying to make the most of it. I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm just trying to do good work on stage and try to be present for my son, and it's a GD struggle right now. I mean, well, right now in a different way because I'm just home and you know, eating and drinking and trying not to, and being a homeschool teacher and trying not to get too fat. And yeah, they gotta give us like a month's notice so we can so we can take off this quarantine.

The wine and cheese. Yeah. Like officially, corsets are not zipping up. Like it's it's it's official, but I uh yeah, it's you're either trying, you're feeling like shit because you're so tired at work and trying to get through that show and try to do good work, and there are days where I'm not present, and I hate it when I'm not present in the show, even though I'm sure it looks a it looks the same, but my spirit's not in it because I'm so tired. But then I get home and I'm like, I don't even have the energy to like play with my son. And it's like I'm never you're never gonna win. You're never gonna have it all. Because if you actually said yeah, I have it all, I'm like, I think something's wrong with you.

Because I mean, we always can be doing better. I I always want to be doing better, always, especially on the motherhood front. And right now, I am like, I am failing, I quit. Because it's just 24-7, and I'm like, I am not capable. I mean, how does your kindergarten teacher do it? It's just you, Hudson, and you are a handful. And she has 18 other kids. It's like, wow. But they, you know, it's structure. They go to the circle. They go to the table. They I'm in my dining room handing them sheets. And then I have to do school in sections. I'm like, let's do an hour now. Go out. Do whatever you want. Let's do another hour. Let's read some books. Go out. Because I'll just, I'll just throw him out the window, man. I'm just being honest.

[56:41] Cara Cooper: Well, just keep pouring the wine, drinking the wine. And we will all get through this, right?

[56:47] Robyn Hurder: I mean, yeah, we will. Together somehow. Cheers.

[56:51] Jessica Rush: Don't drink all that yet. We gotta finish it up.

[56:55] Robyn Hurder: I know. But Robin, thank you for joining us. I really feel like you should come back because we could just keep talking. Because we haven't even touched on like your social media and all the things. So why don't you just come back another day? We'll do another one of these.

[57:10] Robyn Hurder: Sure.

[57:11] Jessica Rush: And we'll do part two with Miss Hurder outline. Maybe when we know we're coming back.

[57:16] Robyn Hurder: Yeah.

[57:17] Jessica Rush: That would be very exciting. I mean, like we do have the time.

[57:21] Robyn Hurder: So any time.

[57:23] Jessica Rush: We have epic amounts of time.

[57:24] Robyn Hurder: And yet it doesn't feel like it somehow.

[57:27] Cara Cooper: I know.

[57:28] Robyn Hurder: I know. That's the thing. It's like, especially, I will say it's like the Broadway things. It's like, don't you feel a little bit like taken advantage of that? Everyone's like, can you do this? Can you do this? Like my company is like, do this and do this and do this. And I'm like, whoa! I'm getting a paycheck.

[57:44] Jessica Rush: Right. Exactly.

[57:45] Robyn Hurder: Right. Where's my media fee? Where's my $35 a week? And the interview and Broadway were I'm like, whoa. This all makes sense when I when I get a paycheck.

[57:59] Cara Cooper: Yeah, exactly.

[58:01] Robyn Hurder: Whatever. I don't know.

[58:02] Jessica Rush: Yes, we we certainly have the time. Like I was text texting Kara and she was like, is there some time? And I'm like, well! This guy's pretty open. So I would gladly talk to you guys.

[58:14] Robyn Hurder: So I'm the client's forced to be with Hudson for an hour and a half or so. Anytime.

[58:19] Jessica Rush: Anytime's good.

[58:22] Robyn Hurder: Exactly.

[58:23] Jessica Rush: Exactly.

[58:24] Robyn Hurder: I've locked Eric and Elliot in the bedroom. So I was like, go over there, please for an hour.

[58:29] Jessica Rush: Anyway, came in with my kiddos.

[58:31] Cara Cooper: Oh, it's time.

[58:32] Jessica Rush: It's time.

[58:34] Robyn Hurder: Oh, well, thank you, Robin.

[58:35] Jessica Rush: Thanks again.

[58:36] Robyn Hurder: Oh my gosh. Thanks for joining us.

[58:38] Jessica Rush: I can talk to mommies all day. The real mommies, but I don't think we're talking how it really is. It's not perfect. We're there for that.

[58:45] Cara Cooper: Yep.

[58:50] Jessica Rush: Awesome. Well, be well, and we'll we'll talk to you soon.

[58:53] Robyn Hurder: Same to you.

[58:55] Jessica Rush: All right.

[59:03] Jessica Rush: Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Mamas Talkin' Loud. Special shout outs to Rachel Spencer Hewitt for our fabulous graphic. Kristen Anderson Lopez, Bobby Lopez, and Justin Ward Weber for our awesome theme song. Our producers Dori Berinstein, Alan Seales, and of course the Broadway Podcast Network for bringing us to you. If you like what you're hearing and you want to keep the conversation going, you can follow us on Instagram and Facebook. And of course, subscribe and review us wherever you listen to your podcast. Thanks so much for tuning in.