This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Cara Cooper: Hey everybody, welcome back.

[0:02] Jessica Rush: It's Cara Cooper and Jessica Rush.

[0:04] Cara Cooper: You're listening to Mama's Talkin' Loud with our guests Pearl Sun and Jenny DeNoya.

[0:08] Jessica Rush: Uh oh, uh uh oh.

[0:12] Cara Cooper: Uh oh, Mama's talking loud, mom is talking loud, mom's talking tough, mom's talking how being good with good enough.

[0:23] Jessica Rush: Mama's talking life, mama's talking proud, mama talking trash.

[0:29] Cara Cooper: Mama's talking.

[0:34] Jessica Rush: Hey guys, welcome to Mama's Talking Loud.

[0:36] Cara Cooper: This is Jessica Rush, and this is Cara Cooper.

[0:39] Jessica Rush: And we are talking today about being a standby mama.

[0:43] Cara Cooper: A standby and a Broadway show and a mama, what that entails.

[0:48] Jessica Rush: And joining us, our Pearl Sun, who is currently a standby at Come From Away, and she has a son named Max, and he is three.

[0:56] Pearl Sun: Three.

[0:56] Jessica Rush: Just turned three.

[0:57] Cara Cooper: Awesome.

[0:58] Jessica Rush: And Miss Jenny DeNoya.

[0:59] Jenny DeNoya: Hey.

[1:00] Jessica Rush: And she is an alphabet standby, the alphabet standby at Wicked here in New York.

[1:04] Jenny DeNoya: And her daughter Jules is almost four.

[1:07] Pearl Sun: Yeah, she's almost four.

[1:08] Jenny DeNoya: November.

[1:09] Cara Cooper: Awesome. Welcome, ladies.

[1:10] Jessica Rush: Thank you guys for coming.

[1:11] Pearl Sun: Thank you so much.

[1:12] Jenny DeNoya: Thanks for having us.

[1:13] Cara Cooper: Great to be here.

[1:14] Jessica Rush: All right. So let's kick it off just kind of starting with your journey of motherhood and theater.

[1:21] Cara Cooper: Were you in a show when you found out you were pregnant? What was your journey into motherhood? What did that look like?

[1:26] Jenny DeNoya: Uh, well, I actually found out that I was pregnant while I was doing Wicked. I was in LA doing the first national tour of Wicked before they closed.

[1:38] Jenny DeNoya: And um two weeks into my run there, I was like, man, my voice feels really strange. Uh something's going on with my body, and I I knew it. Like, like it was so immediate. Like I knew it right away. Took the test, it was positive, and I was definitely pregnant.

[1:54] Jenny DeNoya: And um, so I finished out my run there, and then I was actually already scheduled to go to the Broadway show to fill in for like five or six weeks. So I actually played Alphabet up until I was 10 weeks pregnant, which was really wild.

[2:09] Jenny DeNoya: But um, I think it kind of forced me into like not feeling you know all the feels of the first trimester because when I stepped off the stage when I was done, I was like, oh, I'm pregnant. Immediately I was like, now I feel pregnant.

[2:22] Pearl Sun: Yeah.

[2:23] Jenny DeNoya: So but it was it was crazy. Was it really difficult to do or were you it was really difficult.

[2:28] Jenny DeNoya: I my voice was really affected when I was pregnant. Like it was just I just felt swollen, you know, that because that first those first 12 weeks, you like you don't look pregnant, but you feel just like big. I don't know, it's like yes.

[2:42] Pearl Sun: Oh so it was weird being in like in my costumes too, because my body was like already changing and you know it it it was actually a really exciting time. I was very, very happy to be pregnant and just so like wildly like I don't know, you you're like, holy shit, I'm gonna be a parent, like that whole like idea, but you know, here I am living my dreams on stage at the same time.

[3:09] Jenny DeNoya: So it was kind of like this magical time. I was really, really happy.

[3:14] Cara Cooper: Did you tell anybody? Did you have to tell your wardrobe department?

[3:17] Jenny DeNoya: I didn't tell wardrobe, I told the makeup artist because that's who you really spend the most time with. Like uh, because when you play alphabet, you literally don't talk to anybody, you know what I mean?

[3:26] Pearl Sun: Because nobody talks to you.

[3:28] Jenny DeNoya: You were a little busy, yeah. A little busy and just you know, one pee break for the first act, and that's about it. But um, yeah, so I told the makeup artist I wanted somebody in the building to know that I was, you know, just in case.

[3:39] Jenny DeNoya: Um, but yeah, it you know, that whole thing where you can't tell until you're 12 weeks that's an awful sucky feeling it's a terrible terrible feeling but I get why um but yeah I told her and then when I moved to the Broadway show I actually told the stage manager because I've been in uh going into the Broadway company for years now on and off so they are they are like my second family there so I definitely was like keep it on the DL but yeah this is what's going on and this is why I might sound a little funny.

[3:39] Pearl Sun: I do believe you texted me.

[3:39] Jenny DeNoya: Did I?

[3:39] Pearl Sun: From LA you did.

[3:39] Jenny DeNoya: I did because I wanted to know who like who to go see.

[4:18] Pearl Sun: Uh-huh you texted and it's that was very near the beginning and I but you didn't say you were pregnant but you texted and were asking all these questions and I remember talking to a mutual friend of ours I remember talking to Amber and I was like I'm pretty sure Janny D is pregnant.

[4:33] Jenny DeNoya: Yeah I told her because I was staying with her in LA when I was there I was in her house and I was like I have to tell her because this is crazy.

[4:40] Pearl Sun: Yeah so no I was I just remember that I remember that you had texted me.

[4:44] Cara Cooper: That's wild I wonder if I ended up going to see that the doctor that you oh we'll take that how about you Pearl when did you find out were you performing what was your situation?

[4:56] Pearl Sun: So I've been known to be titled the reading queen so I was doing that about you a lot of readings.

[5:03] Pearl Sun: I do I I mean I'm I'm grateful for that because I really enjoy that stage of the process and I was doing a bunch of readings I did the I was five to six months pregnant when I did the lab for frozen.

[5:18] Pearl Sun: So I was just reading after reading after reading. They knew I was pregnant. Um, I remember Patty was like, You're what? You're five to six months pregnant? No way.

[5:27] Pearl Sun: So it was amazing. It was it was a lot of fun. And then and then during Let It Go, whenever you know, at the time it was um Betsy, and she would sing, and he was just moving and moving and churning. So that was fun.

[5:39] Pearl Sun: Um, but I actually wound up working and doing readings and things until beyond my due date. So I was a couple days after my due date, and I got a random call from the public saying, Hey, listen, we need a last minute fill-in for somebody who dropped out and they were developing Moby Dick the musical.

[6:00] Pearl Sun: And I said, Okay, I'm I'm available, it's just for a day. Come in during the day, in the morning you rehearse, we'll present it to the team in the afternoon. I can't remember. And I was like, okay, so clearly I'm playing Moby Dick.

[6:13] Pearl Sun: Clearly, because I was gigantic. And um, but they said, I said, so this is the situation, I'm a couple days beyond my due date, so my water could break at any moment. And then she said, Okay, so no problem. They're fine with it. And the director will step in to do your role if that happens.

[6:33] Pearl Sun: And I said, Okay, I'm in. And it didn't you know, it did super dramatic if that happened like during the presentation. It would have been of Moby Dick water breaking. I mean, come on.

[6:43] Jenny DeNoya: So it didn't happen, thankfully, but you know, it was great. And I kind of crazily, right after he was born, um, or right before he was born, I had agreed to do an amped festival gig, which which is a short commitment.

[7:00] Pearl Sun: Um, but then shortly after he was born, I was like, Oh my god, I don't know that I can do this. This is a lot, and I'm exclusively breastfeeding.

[7:07] Pearl Sun: So I called them, I said, Listen, I'm giving you three weeks' notice so you can find somebody else. I completely understand, but I'm exclusively breastfeeding. I I I don't know what to do. I can't, and he's not giving me enough time to pump because he was um what is cluster feeding, so which to all of you it's short feeds instead of long feeds, which doesn't help.

[7:27] Jenny DeNoya: Basically, you are tied to the edge at all times.

[7:29] Pearl Sun: Yeah, and they were great. It was Michael Baress is the director, and he said, Bring him.

[7:34] Jenny DeNoya: So I had him with me at rehearsal the entire time.

[7:37] Pearl Sun: Oh, that's amazing.

[7:39] Jenny DeNoya: Yeah, people are more stories like that and understanding I'm human.

[7:43] Pearl Sun: Yeah, it's really nice.

[7:44] Cara Cooper: That's awesome. And I didn't really take my a full-time job until he was around one. But I just kept doing readings and concerts and things.

[7:53] Jessica Rush: I mean, I literally on your Instagram, I feel like there's always every week you've got a group of people and a reading that you've done. I'm like, Pearl is so busy.

[7:59] Pearl Sun: So busy.

[8:03] Cara Cooper: It's a good problem.

[8:04] Pearl Sun: It's a good thing.

[8:05] Jenny DeNoya: Well, I get to meet so many great people in each room, so it's nice.

[8:10] Cara Cooper: So you are so busy, but you're so busy doing your Broadway show at night, too, both of you.

[8:16] Jessica Rush: Um, and you're both standbys. Uh Jenny, you stand by for one part, obviously.

[8:21] Jenny DeNoya: Alpha Back.

[8:22] Jessica Rush: Um, you know, just a little a little part on the show. You probably don't know anything about it.

[8:27] Pearl Sun: Um and Pearl, what roles do you stand by for Income From Away?

[8:31] Pearl Sun: Uh, I stand by for five of the six female roles, um, excluding the role of the pilot, if you know the show.

[8:39] Jenny DeNoya: Um, yeah, and it's it's pretty challenging. I cannot believe I don't know. If you haven't seen the show, there isn't much set in terms of there are no pieces, it's chairs.

[8:51] Pearl Sun: Yeah.

[8:52] Jenny DeNoya: That they configure in all different ways to set the scene and where you are. And I I cannot imagine having to know five different tracks of where those chairs go.

[9:03] Pearl Sun: And which chair I pick up because they all look the same.

[9:06] Jenny DeNoya: And you're like, where am I even going? That is, I don't know how you learn that.

[9:09] Pearl Sun: This is the thing though, all three of the female standbys are all moms.

[9:15] Jenny DeNoya: It's incredible.

[9:16] Pearl Sun: Which are which is fun. I have to like pat ourselves on the back because, you know, meanwhile, we have young ones, so they're, you know, six between ages three to six. So it's not like they're grown. And there's a lot of stuff that we have to deal with, uh, you know, sleepless nights and just having the brain power.

[9:33] Jenny DeNoya: Yeah.

[9:35] Pearl Sun: You got the job when because I remember we were doing the concert 54 below.

[9:38] Jenny DeNoya: Yes.

[9:39] Pearl Sun: And you literally just found out you were going into it.

[9:41] Jenny DeNoya: And our sons are about the same age.

[9:42] Pearl Sun: I I feel like Max was just over one.

[9:45] Jenny DeNoya: He was a year and a half.

[9:46] Pearl Sun: Okay, a year and a half when he started. He and I had the young, I mean, we have a lot of parents in the show, um, who are either performing in the show or in the on the crew or the you know, staffs, which so that's really great.

[9:57] Jenny DeNoya: It really welcomes the family environment.

[10:01] Pearl Sun: But when he, you know, he's young, so trying to shove all that information in my brain at the same time was really challenging, and I just felt like, oh my god, I don't know how am I gonna do this.

[10:14] Jenny DeNoya: Yeah.

[10:15] Pearl Sun: My brain is real. Mom rame is real, it is legit.

[10:18] Jenny DeNoya: Yeah, and you know, when you're just at half mass brain power-wise, to have that stuff coming at you, it's it's pretty no, my hat's off to you.

[10:29] Cara Cooper: I can't, that is overwhelming. I can't even five of the five roles, that's a lot.

[10:34] Pearl Sun: Same with with my other female standby cohorts, you know.

[10:37] Jenny DeNoya: Yeah.

[10:38] Pearl Sun: They're they're killing it too. And, and you know, one of our moms has two, and then the other is, you know, I think he's about three and a half or four years old. So we've got little babies. We've got young kids. So I'm grateful.

[10:49] Jenny DeNoya: I'm grateful.

[10:52] Pearl Sun: And they've been a a huge resource is to, oh, you know, talking about the mom stuff and how to balance and juggle.

[10:58] Jessica Rush: So yeah, how great that you do have women with you who know what it is and what it's like and what the juggle is of course.

[11:05] Cara Cooper: Well, same with Broadway baby mamas, the group as well. I mean, to have there are more and more of us now. And I think that it it not only supports us as individuals in behind closed doors, but it also supports us in our brains to know and in our souls to know that actually we can do this.

[11:22] Pearl Sun: Yeah.

[11:23] Cara Cooper: And you're not the only one.

[11:25] Pearl Sun: Because that's how it feels when you're in those moments where you're like, oh my God. And especially when you're in a show that there aren't a lot of mothers in, you really are the only one experiencing it and they're and the other people, not to their discredit, they don't have any frame of reference for what you're going through at the time.

[11:39] Jessica Rush: Yeah.

[11:39] Cara Cooper: Um, so okay, so being a standby is obviously incredibly difficult, specifically for Pearl, having to balance all these different roles. For you, Jenny, the vocal weight of having to perform that at a moment's notice.

[11:48] Jenny DeNoya: Yeah.

[11:56] Cara Cooper: How do you go about your day knowing that you may possibly have to perform that role at night?

[12:02] Jenny DeNoya: And you don't know if you're gonna have to. I mean, that's a good question. Honestly, you know, I'm very thankful that I've been a part of Wicked at this point for on and off for over thirteen years.

[12:12] Jennifer DiNoia: Oh, what's crazy. Isn't it nuts? I can't even believe I don't even know where the time has gone. But I've played this role so many times that like my body knows it so well. So I have that behind me, obviously. Like that's like my core. Um, but you know, being back into the standby now, it's actually I find it's easier because when Jules was about seven and a half months old, I went back into the Broadway show playing the role eight times a week. And it was really hard. Yeah. It was really hard. Oh my god. Um, not just because like Elphaba is a difficult role to play, but like my body still hadn't like done what it needed to kind of like go back recovered, recovered. Restore. Um, so it was very strange.

It was very strange, but um and difficult. But now, you know, it's kind of nice because I only do one or two or you know, none a week. Um, and it's hard when you have to wake up at five in the morning because your child is ready to wake up. Um, and uh so I it's mostly just you know, if I can fit a nap in, I'll do that. Um, I've been meditating a lot, which is I'm finding is really helpful for me, like to get that kind of like quick rest. Um, and I do it on the train because I live in Brooklyn, so that helps. Um, but honestly, I you know, I don't option up anymore. I no longer do the vocal Olympics or try to, you know.

[13:49] Pearl Sun: Well, you also have nothing left to prove. I mean, my gosh, you know, I mean, and I still enjoy it so so much, and it's it's actually um kind of magically changed my show and and I think I'm sure you guys understand like being on stage when you're performing and I don't know, there's a whole new perspective. So I actually enjoy it more, and I also have this sense of like when I do leave the stage, I'm not bothered by like, oh, that like really bunk note I sang in Defying Gravity that night. Like, because I'm like, oh, I have bigger things going on in my life. So I'm able to kind of enjoy the process so much more than I used to. So that's nice.

[14:27] Jennifer DiNoia: Yeah, just leave it at the door.

[14:29] Pearl Sun: Yeah. So I just kind of like, yeah, it's like, oh, I get to be on stage. I get to be a working mom, and I'm so grateful for that. And you know, I don't have that sense of like, oh my god, I need to sing this song so well today, and you know, then beat myself up for the rest of the show. So that element is no longer there, which is really kind of thank God.

[14:50] Jennifer DiNoia: I'm sure that's exhausting.

[14:52] Pearl Sun: It is exhausting. So for you, Pearl, what does it look like? So you you know these five roles, obviously. You just you you can tell us about your day. You were hinting at that before we started this.

[15:03] Pearl Sun: I had a really special week a couple weeks ago. Um please tell us.

[15:10] Pearl Sun: So I had been on the week before this special week for one role. Um, and she was supposed to return, but she hadn't made it back or something happened. She oh, she had injured herself. Anyway, needless to say, I continued on with the same role on Tuesday. And then I thought I was gonna continue on on Wednesday, but found out an hour and a half before that I was actually gonna play a different role that I cover, um, because she was feeling ill, so I had to switch gears in my brain to play a role I hadn't played in a month and a half. And then the next day, but that was semi-planned, but I hadn't played a role in five months. So I played three different roles in three days. Oh my god. Within the same week, um, at the end of the week on a Sunday was Max's birthday party.

Oh my gosh. Which I did way too much for, like crafting and all that. Like I made a piñata. Oh, you know, all that kind of thing. Yeah, maybe don't even talk to me. Like too much, way too much. Um, and then within the same week, I had my first callback and my second callback for Company. Oh my god. Just a little it's a easy, I mean, it's fine. I wanted to die. Yeah. Wednesday was a callback for Company, and then Friday was a callback for Company.

[16:30] Pearl Sun: So then what happened is Thursday when I played this role that I hadn't played in five months, six months, I don't even I have lost track because it's not my primary, it's one of my secondaries. Um, I just didn't sing for three lines. Because my I literally had a stroke. Oh my god. On stage with the spotlight on me, front and center. And it was though I had never experienced that in my entire career. Just mortified. I picked it back up, but I couldn't I could not shake it off, Jenny.

[17:03] Jennifer DiNoia: Oh, I'm sorry.

[17:05] Pearl Sun: Trust me, there are moments when I do not shake it off. Like it's not like that. And so I kind of carried it with me the next day into my callbacks.

[17:11] Jennifer DiNoia: Oh no.

[17:12] Pearl Sun: Do you know what I'm saying?

[17:13] Jennifer DiNoia: Yeah.

[17:14] Pearl Sun: So but your brain just short circuited. It was like I can't. I just can't I'm done. Yeah. I'm done. And I'm tired. Because at night I after each show, I was like finishing up stuff for the birthday party coming up. Um, but then you know, I was beating myself up for a couple days about it, and then I thought, you know what? I had a pretty Herculean week, and I'm just gonna congratulate myself.

[17:37] Jennifer DiNoia: Yes.

[17:38] Pearl Sun: Instead of beat myself up, and just uh and just say my baby had an amazing birthday and I played three roles in three days, yeah.

[17:49] Jennifer DiNoia: I'm proper hands.

[17:51] Pearl Sun: Yeah, I mean, and had two callbacks for a fantastic revival. So but think about how you would have seen that week before you had a child, right? You would have been like, uh I am amazing. Look at what I did this week. I mean, I feel like my mindset, yeah, it was so different. I mean, I would have been totally overwhelmed, I know, by all of that, but then I would have gotten to the end of the week and I would have congratulated myself, right? But I but there's something about this motherhood pressure that we put on ourselves. It's like it's the feeding yourself up, and it's in the yeah, I don't know. Like you wanted to make this party perfect for Max, and so that was hanging over your head the entire time. I don't know that that feeling that your brain is split into a million places, on top of which being split into a million places covering five different parts.

[18:38] Jennifer DiNoia: Well, and you also would have before Max, before motherhood, you would have had you would have probably slept until you know 10 and had some sleep, and like eased into your day, oh yeah, you know, and thought, oh, let me go over this that I'm gonna do, and you know it's very different. I mean, recently the last I would say in the last handful of weeks, I've had conversations with a couple of girlfriends of mine who I'm very close to who are very successful in the business, neither of them have children, and it it's just dawned on me how our how different our perspectives are, and they are probably the most empathetic people, especially with me. They've been with me every step of the way with with Max and everything, and they're wonderful, but even then it it's hard for them to grasp, well, I I can't actually make everything work because I actually do have other commitments and not enough time and not enough rest.

[19:38] Pearl Sun: So no I can't get to the gym every day like I'd like to. Yeah you know it's well well if it you set it as a priority I was like sure that's a great idea.

[19:50] Jennifer DiNoia: Yeah but then I won't see my child like that's you know because the only time you have to spend with him is you know I feel like that's part of the biggest struggle for me. I mean the me time like supposed as opposed to like before you had kids. That extra time was the self-care time and now it's like no that goes directly to your child. Because you want to I mean you want to spend time with them and you know especially once they get to school age you know it's like Elliot is in kindergarten and if I don't get up and see her and put her on the bus at 7:30 I won't see her the I w at all you know because like right now I'm in tech and then she goes to bed and you know so spend days you want to have those yeah days without seeing them if you don't get up and so it's um it's such a struggle because you want to invest in yourself of course also because of the business we're in we have to keep certain standards to a degree and you want to have that time but also I'm not gonna take it away from her sweet you know my most special person.

[20:48] Pearl Sun: So it's a struggle man.

[20:50] Jennifer DiNoia: Yes. It's interesting like I I'm finding like because my daughter's going to be four but like explaining and she just started school but explaining to her like what I do and why I'm going to work is a whole different well because she's so aware now.

[21:05] Pearl Sun: Yeah.

[21:05] Jennifer DiNoia: She's like, where are you going? When are you? I'm like, I'm always come back. Don't worry. But it's fine. And it's for all working moms, obviously. You know, there's that balance of self-care. But it's just so particular this the time commitment that we have, even just the time of day that we have to work. Do you know what I mean? It's just a it's a really specific kind of struggle.

[21:28] Pearl Sun: Well and you guys too, I mean being standbys, you probably have to go to rehearsal during the week, right? Or no at this point maybe you Yeah, I mean we have like a lot of company kind of cleanups that kind of happen every they're pretty good about it. It's like every four, five, six weeks. So it's not like a lot, but it's at least it's consistent.

[21:47] Jennifer DiNoia: Um and I have to go to those and then if new principals are coming to the show, normally the standbys are called to rehearse with them.

[21:55] Pearl Sun: Which we we did just have a new principal come in, but we don't really have a new principal coming in until our new memorial. So but um yeah that's the only time I'm really called so that's good.

[22:04] Jennifer DiNoia: That's good.

[22:08] Pearl Sun: It's actually really the understudy then I guess goes to the understudy I know Pearl has a different I'm sorry.

[22:14] Jennifer DiNoia: No it's okay. I mean you've earned it you 13 years you've earned it but no I mean so because of the nature of the show and because it's actually really necessary we rehearse every Friday.

[22:28] Pearl Sun: At least it's just Friday.

[22:29] Jennifer DiNoia: Yes.

[22:30] Pearl Sun: Yes and on Thursday and Friday. And sometimes sometimes it is Thursday and Friday if we're putting in the new person or you know we're training a new person. And then because there's been just a lot of um training for the different companies that's been going on so we've had a a bit of a break from rehearsals. But generally it's every Friday, and every Friday we choose a different role that we hit so that we at least touch a role every month.

[22:55] Jennifer DiNoia: A month and some change, you know.

[22:57] Pearl Sun: Um so they like to just kind of alternate it so that we can keep that fresh.

[23:01] Jennifer DiNoia: Yeah, you know.

[23:03] Pearl Sun: Are there things that you guys do when you're not on stage?

[23:07] Jennifer DiNoia: I think Pearl, you're probably on a little more often than you, Jenny. But I know when I've like at The Prom when I wasn't on stage, I would have grand designs of all these things I was going to accomplish.

[23:18] Pearl Sun: And nine times out of ten learn a language on the desk, I would be passed out asleep.

[23:23] Jennifer DiNoia: Yeah.

[23:23] Pearl Sun: Oh yeah.

[23:24] Jennifer DiNoia: I uh we have a green room at Wicked, and there have been multiple times where I'm just like on the couch underneath the covers.

[23:30] Pearl Sun: Yeah.

[23:31] Jennifer DiNoia: But how often do you get to go on?

[23:33] Pearl Sun: It's on average. Well, when I first joined the show back this time, um, I was actually on for a couple weeks.

[23:41] Jennifer DiNoia: Okay.

[23:42] Pearl Sun: Because um our lead was sick, and so uh I actually like getting back into the show, it was very strange because I was like one week there and then I was on.

[23:52] Jennifer DiNoia: Oh so that was interesting, and I was like, Oh wait, I I'm the standby. I'm not supposed to be it all the time.

[24:00] Pearl Sun: No, but it was good, it was good. They were all understanding and cool. But um now I'm like on maybe once a week, so it's really not it's not too bad. But during the show, I normally will watch the show like because we have a screen that connects to the front of the house. So I'll watch it sometimes, I'll sing through it probably like once or twice a week if I haven't been on a lot just to kind of keep it in my body.

[24:21] Pearl Sun: Um, or I'll read a lot of trashy magazines because I love those too. Just kind of like exit my brain as much as possible.

[24:30] Jennifer DiNoia: Yeah, yeah. No, it's kind of nice. It's that those shows are kind of nice to have, yeah, when you don't have anything to do.

[24:36] Pearl Sun: Yeah.

[24:37] Jennifer DiNoia: Um, I I you're like, I don't get them actually.

[24:41] Pearl Sun: No, no, no.

[24:41] Jennifer DiNoia: I mean our show is is a hundred minutes long. So that I mean that's a gift in and of itself that it's short enough that you can't I mean you can't get too far into anything. So I I I scroll a lot um to relax a bit. And um but I you know thankfully my my agents have been keeping me busy with some auditions for TV stuff, so and that comes in pretty frequently. So I use that time to memorize lines for the next thing for the next audition, or if I'm working on a reading, I'm going through that material and stuff like that. So I use that as some carved out time to get work done too.

[25:19] Pearl Sun: Yeah, but I do have a lot of downtime too, and I will take an occasional nap and things like that.

[25:24] Jennifer DiNoia: Yeah, that was the hardest. I I stood by Evan Hansen earlier this year.

[25:28] Pearl Sun: Yes, you did.

[25:29] Jennifer DiNoia: And that was my first time standing by.

[25:31] Pearl Sun: Did you have fun?

[25:32] Jennifer DiNoia: You looked like you had a good time.

[25:33] Pearl Sun: I did. I mean, it was a great, I really love the company, and they were all so welcoming and warm and um and I really like the people. It was just I I had always thought like, oh, I'd love to be a standby. I would get so much done, I would read so many books, I would work out. I don't, I didn't do any of those things. I watch Netflix. Do you know what I mean? I I didn't, I was like, oh, this is I ordered dinner. That was you know, I would like order my dinner and I would eat and watch Netflix.

[25:59] Pearl Sun: It's interesting there too because nine people, well, they just changed it, but when I was there, nine the whole the nine standbys share one room.

[26:06] Jennifer DiNoia: Oh wow male and female male and female ages 18 to 50. Like amazing. Everyone's in there because when you're on, you go to the principal's room that you're on for. So it was just there was always like, you know, people noodling on the guitar, singing or talking or like making, you know, Instagram videos. It's like there was always stuff going on.

[26:26] Pearl Sun: Um, but it was uh it was an interesting experience. It was I it I didn't love it as much as I thought I would. And I don't know if that's because I'm not a very proactive person, truthfully, and I didn't make very good use of my time. I mean, I caught up on some TV, you know, but um uh I was so happy when I got to go on, you know, just to do the show, especially I think being a mom, being away from your child, yeah. It feels like if you're gonna be away, you want to be doing something, and not that being a standby isn't doing something, but you know what I mean. Like you want to be on the stage and an active participant to just feel like it's it's worth it because missing that dinner and bedtime, you know.

[27:08] Jennifer DiNoia: Yeah, that was how I felt. So I don't know if you guys, I'm sure you probably have those moments.

[27:12] Pearl Sun: That's exactly how I feel. And um, well, I mean, the standbys vary. So one of our standbys, he's a writer, so he wrote his musical.

[27:20] Jennifer DiNoia: That's amazing.

[27:20] Pearl Sun: Yeah, I would never get anything like that accomplished. I mean, he's he's amazing. I I adore him. Um total. Um, but uh yeah, he he's prolific and he's working and doing his thing, and um, and then you know, we have some standbys that have a wonderful setup, so they have a huge flat screen TV in their dress dressing room and they're catching up on the TV, and and for me, I have a really hard time already just keeping all this stuff in my head. Like they're rock stars that they can just come downstairs if we're in the middle of a show and they need to be called in. It's happened twice, and I nearly made it a third time, but it I was called and I got dressed and ready, but then she felt better, so it was canceled. But it really happens where those mid-shows are more nude, yeah.

[28:08] Jennifer DiNoia: But they I mean they're really comfortable being in the middle of their show and being called down, and I'm not, so I stay in the green room during the show. Which then means you're you have the screen in front of you and you're watching the show and or you're hearing it piped in. So I'm kind of always half in and half out of the show anyway.

[28:23] Pearl Sun: Right.

[28:24] Jennifer DiNoia: So I don't really get into anything else really deeply, just in case.

[28:30] Pearl Sun: Yeah.

[28:31] Jennifer DiNoia: Hard place to live though during the show to be half in.

[28:34] Pearl Sun: Well, I've always thought like of an alphabet standby. I mean, I've thought about this over the years of just like, what is it like to be the standby and know first off, how fast can they put that green paint on you? Do you know what I mean? And then also to just be chilling or sleep on the couch and then all of a sudden they're like, You have to go scroll to E or whatever, F or whatever. You know what I mean? It's like, get on out there, Jenny. So can you speak to that? Has that happened many times for you for a mid-show?

[29:00] Jennifer DiNoia: I think I've done a mid mid-shows maybe like two handfuls of times. I mean, I was a standby on Broadway for almost two and a half years back two thousand nine to two thousand eleven. Um, so I did most of my mid-shows there. Um and it it's adrenaline, it's all adrenaline. That's like, thank God for it. Because uh I would not be able to do it if it wasn't for that.

[29:24] Pearl Sun: Um, but the makeup really they can get it on there really quickly. I think their record was like eight minutes. 'Cause normally what happens is the alphabet will sing The Wizard and I and she'll be like, I'm not okay, or I'm not gonna or I don't feel good, or I'm not gonna be able to keep making it. Um they'll tell somebody on stage and they'll let them know, and then I would run on for like the toss toss and pop after popular or into um the Emerald City.

[29:56] Pearl Sun: Do they stop the show or do they don't?

[29:58] Jennifer DiNoia: Oh do they make an announcement or do they wait till they wait till intermission. So it's it's interesting when you run out and you're like oh and you see the front row kind of leaning into each other like what is it's not the same person.

[30:11] Pearl Sun: Well probably from the back probably I mean unless your stature is a lot different with the green makeup it's probably difficult to tell right yeah I mean I remember I think I was standing by for D Roscioli and she's like a head taller than I am and it only happened that one time but I remember being like yeah they know they know that I'm I'm definitely a lot shorter so but you're not even short.

[30:31] Pearl Sun: Wait how tall is Dee?

[30:32] Jennifer DiNoia: I mean I've I mean she's not a full head taller but she's maybe half yeah she's tall I mean she's definitely taller than me and I think it was when she was playing it with Aaron Mackey who's also a taller and I'm shorter than than her so it was definitely a very visualize you can see it.

[30:32] Pearl Sun: You can see it yeah.

[30:49] Jennifer DiNoia: Um what well this will be edited God for all good sometimes my brain just is like everything going on right now you're not gonna get no straight to tech oh my god just a few things this week um life how about what do you think changed in you the most when you became a mother or what do you think that was the biggest change a positive or negative or maybe one of each like having to do with being a performer or just in general in like I weirdly see, I feel like I've always been kind of high strung in general.

[31:37] Jennifer DiNoia: Um, and I feel like I've gotten more high strung, but in a completely different section of my life. So like it's no longer about me, but it's about this little human. So I'm weirdly like calmer and like more relaxed in my own body as like Jenny, but I'm not I'm not at all like i in my head about my child. I don't know.

[31:57] Pearl Sun: Well, it's like you said, when you you could leave what happened at the theater at the door, because now you're focused in on her.

[32:03] Jennifer DiNoia: Right, exactly. So I don't know if that makes sense what I just said, but like I yeah, I think that uh so many things have positively changed for sure. Um, but the worrying and the the you know the beating up, you know, beating yourself up is uh definitely a lot to handle.

[32:23] Pearl Sun: It's a lot of pressure.

[32:24] Jennifer DiNoia: It is, but um I I would say my heart is huge right now. Like I can cry right now.

[32:30] Pearl Sun: Yeah.

[32:32] Jennifer DiNoia: You know, I mean, just I'm very sensitive to things now.

[32:38] Pearl Sun: Um and say in the same vein, I just kind of feel a little bit like, oh, I'm just slightly good at everything, but not great at anything, you know, which which is not the best feeling, but but I'm you know, I also understand I'm starting to be a little bit more forgiving of myself and understand that doing a lot. Doing a lot because you have to for survival, you have to give yourself a break, or else you would literally be a puddle every single day.

[33:14] Pearl Sun: Which, you know, sometimes sometimes we are.

[33:16] Jennifer DiNoia: Yep. And that's okay. I also think I just worry a lot.

[33:19] Pearl Sun: Yes.

[33:20] Jennifer DiNoia: Oh my god, my anxiety went through the roof.

[33:23] Pearl Sun: Right.

[33:23] Jennifer DiNoia: Like I I mean, I was never the most optimistic person. To be honest. But I Kara used to in the dressing room, Carol would always be like, Don't look for the other shoe, Jess. Like I was always looking for the other shoe to drop. She's like, Don't look for it. Um, because she knew me before.

[33:41] Pearl Sun: I mean, we've known and Jenny, I mean, we've we've all known each other for a long time.

[33:45] Jennifer DiNoia: Very long. Crazy.

[33:46] Pearl Sun: But um, but I I was I wasn't optimistic, but I also wasn't as anxious. And I mean, I wasn't like catastrophic, you know, the worst is gonna happen every time. I wasn't quite to that point. And now it's like that is just I think about it all the time, you know, when she's out without me, or when she, you know, I put her on the bus to school, that was a huge thing for me to be able to do. It was like, okay, but how do I know if she's gonna get inside the building? How do I know she's gonna be okay? Like that's some you know, that she's not gonna that something's not gonna happen. And I just have to trust that she's at school, you know, until 220.

[34:20] Pearl Sun: Yeah, you know, like what if they don't notice that she's not there?

[34:23] Jennifer DiNoia: I mean, it's like, or if she's out in the city and safety and just all the things. I mean, I it's crazy to me how my anxiety ramped up. It was in it's insane.

[34:31] Pearl Sun: Yeah, and it's constant.

[34:34] Jennifer DiNoia: Yeah, I mean, it's constant. Like once you like pass like one little point there, like you have more, you know, whole new section of things going on.

[34:41] Pearl Sun: I feel I was I was less anxious in the first year of her life. Like when she was always smaller, yeah, which she was, you know, because I was with her and I was, you know, and she was so small, and now she's running small, yeah.

[34:53] Jennifer DiNoia: Right.

[34:54] Pearl Sun: Or climbing, right?

[34:56] Jennifer DiNoia: Or any of those things.

[34:57] Pearl Sun: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And now it's like not only do I worry about her, but then I think about like, are they being nice to her at school? Are people being mean? What's happening? You know, their little hearts are just so there's that phrase that um bigger bigger kids, bigger problem.

[35:14] Jennifer DiNoia: Oh no Lord.

[35:15] Pearl Sun: Get ready.

[35:16] Jennifer DiNoia: I'm not looking forward to that.

[35:17] Pearl Sun: It's true. It's very true.

[35:20] Jennifer DiNoia: It's funny you talked about like you feel like you could cry right now. I feel I when I became a mom, I completely felt that way. I felt like I was broken open.

[35:28] Pearl Sun: Right.

[35:28] Jennifer DiNoia: But broken open in a way to feel like the highest highs.

[35:32] Pearl Sun: Absolutely.

[35:33] Jennifer DiNoia: And like, look, we are in theater. We are already emotional beings who have thought we could get even more so. But I just remember feeling like, oh my god, I can't believe my emotions are so extreme right now. You know?

[35:44] Pearl Sun: It it's and it's just interesting because um a couple of the characters that I cover, or most of them actually are moms. So there is just something there that exists that if you have that experience, and I played moms before I was a mom, and one role in particular, I'm glad I wasn't a mom when I was playing it.

[36:08] Jennifer DiNoia: I bet I can guess.

[36:10] Pearl Sun: So um, because I can't even imagine playing that role now. Um, but but now it just what you can bring to it, the the understanding and and the heart's true at Evan Hansen, it was like that. It was like doing those roles as a mother.

[36:24] Jennifer DiNoia: Yeah, it's just like, oh my god, it brings so much more color to it and and weight, you know, it feels like, and just because you have your own experience and then you can identify with them and the struggles that they have as mothers.

[36:37] Pearl Sun: It's so interesting because when I had my first, I took my training leave from Jersey Boys, and the character that I played was a mom. So when I left, I wasn't a mom, and when I came back, I was.

[36:48] Jennifer DiNoia: How different was that?

[36:49] Pearl Sun: Well, I mean, there was a moment in the show where the daughter is a drug addict and is not well, and she ends up dying, but I am not on stage for that much. Spoiler alert. I'm just kidding. But I feel like everybody knows the show.

[37:03] Jennifer DiNoia: I know.

[37:03] Pearl Sun: I'm just kidding. I'm just sorry, Jersey Boys. But there's a line where I would say the words my daughter, and I had a daughter, and I remember my first show back, those words coming out of my mouth and being like, oh my God, I do. Like, you know, as an actor, you try to make everything your truth, obviously, but this was now my truth, you know. And I had been through something very traumatic with my daughter when she was about three months old. And so it just, I will never forget it. It hit me like a ton of bricks in that moment to say those words, you know, and it just, the before and the after, just so specifically to do the exact same thing and how it changed.

[37:49] Jennifer DiNoia: How, um, well, with that, you know, continuing on in this business, just sort of like how do you see your future like in this business as a mom? Like, you know, some people decide it's hard, the struggle. You know, I found myself not wanting to do long runs, you know what I mean? Like, I love being on Broadway, but I definitely have sort of in my mind, like I think a year, you know what I mean? Like I wanna be able to have time, yeah.

[38:21] Pearl Sun: Um, to occasionally to spend with my child. So how do you guys, and some people leave the business completely, you know, and it is a juggle, and or they come back later. Just if you've thought about that or—

[38:33] Jennifer DiNoia: I mean honestly at this point, I need to just live in the now. I'm like really focused on living in the now, and right now, you know, I was offered to come back, and I'm so happy and grateful to be there and be, you know, making the money and, you know, being in a show that I love still. Um, and you know, I'm gonna just take it as it comes because, you know, I hope that there's going to be more opportunities, you know, whether it's on stage or I don't know, I don't know if I'd ever be behind a camera, but possibly. Um, but yeah, I think that like just kind of trying to focus on Jules and what's most important for her right now and, um, and me, and you know, I don't know.

[39:21] Pearl Sun: Yeah, I think living in the now is a good idea, yeah.

[39:24] Jennifer DiNoia: Being present in the moment.

[39:25] Pearl Sun: Yeah, just enjoying it and, you know, seeing where it goes, and you know, obviously work wise, I would—I can't take anything out of state, you know what I mean? But that's fine. I like being at home.

[39:39] Jennifer DiNoia: That's all right.

[39:39] Pearl Sun: Yeah, it's nice to be on Broadway. I'm not trying to be on Broadway, though, I mean, you know, somewhere else, but you know, I'm kind of with you, Jenny. I just can't—I can't get ahead of myself because like we were talking about the anxiety, then I'll just worry myself. And it's not worth the worry because whatever's—I'm trying to be zen about this, but whatever's meant to be mine is gonna be mine.

[40:05] Jennifer DiNoia: And um, I do my best to carve out as much time as I can for Max and for my husband, and I am grateful that I have a show that's 100 minutes long. I'm grateful that we have one show on Sundays. Um, you know, when you have a two, you know, when you have a five-show weekend, it really eats up the entire weekend. And my husband's a nine to fiver. So we're passing ships. I'm grateful in one sense that our kid is mostly with a parent. You know, um, we have a lovely nanny who helps us out maybe 15 hours a week, but which is amazing. But I, you know, I do miss that time for the three of us to be together. Um, but it will all get figured out, you know. I mean, I'm lucky that I'm in a long-running show, but often shows aren't so long-running. So usually it's not an issue. Usually you're like, oh, that's cool. This will probably won't even be here in a year.

[41:06] Pearl Sun: So it's like so, you know, you take all the good with the bad, and you know, Max gets to come by the theater. And the whole company, they're so wonderful to him. They just play with him, they love having him there. They put him on the turntable and run the lights and the turbine.

[41:24] Jennifer DiNoia: Oh my gosh, I'm gonna bring Elliot over because she would lose.

[41:27] Pearl Sun: He's nice as mine.

[41:29] Jennifer DiNoia: Yeah.

[41:29] Pearl Sun: And so he's always—and he's so funny. He sees the logo and he points at it, and at like age two, he said, Mama's work, mama's work. He knew Jill still does.

[41:38] Jennifer DiNoia: He did the same thing, yeah.

[41:39] Pearl Sun: Right? With the—on the subway, because now the Wicked things are on all the subway maps.

[41:44] Jennifer DiNoia: Yes, and it was on the taxi cab one day, and we were walking. I was strolling him around, and he's like, Mama's work.

[41:50] Pearl Sun: It's crazy.

[41:51] Jennifer DiNoia: It's amazing.

[41:52] Pearl Sun: Yeah. One day I'll have him see what I do. I mean, he's still a little bit young.

[41:57] Jennifer DiNoia: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[41:58] Pearl Sun: Yeah. My son, who's about the same age as Max.

[42:01] Jennifer DiNoia: Yeah.

[42:02] Pearl Sun: They saw the very end of the problem. They saw like the final number. And the thing that he kept saying is, Mom, there's an O in your show.

[42:10] Jennifer DiNoia: Because the logo, P-R-O-M.

[42:12] Pearl Sun: So all he gives me is there's an O in your show.

[42:15] Jennifer DiNoia: There is an O in my show.

[42:18] Pearl Sun: I don't know why that's what you took away from it. But yes, there is an O.

[42:22] Jennifer DiNoia: Oh my God.

[42:22] Pearl Sun: They're so funny. Um, I think what you guys are talking about being in the moment is something I think I recently have really come to terms with because I don't think I did for a very long time. Um, especially after having my second, you know, I'm right back into a show after my first. I was like, yeah, I'm in it. I'm still doing this. It's totally—and then I had my second, I was like, oh god, I'm not.

[42:46] Jennifer DiNoia: Um, but just kind of being okay with knowing it's an ebb and flow, you know what I mean? And it's gonna come and it's gonna go and it's gonna look differently than it did before.

[42:56] Pearl Sun: Um, never in my life would I have thought I would have been so happy to be a vacation swing. And I was so happy.

[43:02] Jennifer DiNoia: Yeah, it was like perfect job for me in that.

[43:06] Pearl Sun: I feel like that's exactly how I feel right now.

[43:08] Jennifer DiNoia: Yeah, case by case, yeah.

[43:10] Pearl Sun: So at any given time, you might feel like going out of town.

[43:13] Jennifer DiNoia: Right, it's gonna be an okay choice.

[43:15] Pearl Sun: Right. You know, I—an investment for the right thing. I mean, there's a project that I've been working on for a handful of years, and it's finally having a production, and it's gonna be in the fall of next year at the Berkshires in the Berkshires, which isn't far, but it means that I will be missing his first month of pre-K.

[43:35] Jennifer DiNoia: And I said no.

[43:38] Pearl Sun: Because I just like, you know what? It's gonna be a huge transition for him to be going to school full time, full days. I need to be here for him. So if it was any other year or any other month, maybe I would have probably reconsidered. But I think it's just gonna, we're just gonna have to feel it out.

[43:55] Jennifer DiNoia: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Take it as it comes.

[43:56] Pearl Sun: Take it as it comes because, you know, there might be an out-of-town try-out for a show that's gonna definitely come in. And I want to be a part of that, and then we'll make it work.

[44:04] Jennifer DiNoia: Yeah, you invest the months away. I did that with summer. It's like I went to La Jolla when Elliot was three for three months.

[44:09] Pearl Sun: Yeah.

[44:10] Jennifer DiNoia: And that was hard. And she came out a couple times to visit. Um, but the idea was this is supposedly gonna come in, yeah. Hopefully, we didn't know for sure, but I was like, I'm gonna invest the time. And it came out and it came in, and then I was on Broadway and living here and working for a year, and so I was, you know, you have to just—but it's case by case, case by case.

[44:28] Pearl Sun: And it's—and the good thing, I feel like, is that it's actually fairly clear in the moment. That has been my experience.

[44:34] Jennifer DiNoia: Yeah, and you kind of know you're like, I can't do this, or yeah, I can, this is gonna be hard, but I'm going to make this work because it's important to me.

[44:44] Pearl Sun: It's funny, I remember before having Elon, my daughter, there were several fathers at Jersey Boys, and I remember one of them saying to me, the best thing about it is that you don't do the things that you don't want to do anymore. Like you don't just jump and say yes to every project because you think, oh god, am I ever gonna work again? Or I need to say yes to everything. You really start to pick and choose what's important to you and your priority shift. And I think that was so spot on, at least it has been for me, you know, just the way that I make decisions is so different now that I have a kid, too, and kids.

[45:22] Pearl Sun: I also think again, having a community of parents, um, heteroparents, gay parents, uh, different ages. Uh, it just, it's so wonderful because now that there are more of us, because I know that when I was starting out in the business, there just were so few people actually thought that they had to make a decision. Either I choose my career and don't have children or have children and I quit. I mean, it was really that stark. And it wasn't that long ago.

[45:52] Jennifer DiNoia: And it wasn't that long ago.

[45:54] Pearl Sun: And so, and to see this huge influx of parents coming out and still killing it and still coming out and doing their thing, it's really, really just so exciting. Um, and so heartwarming, you know?

[46:09] Jennifer DiNoia: Yeah.

[46:10] Pearl Sun: I think it just makes us all better artists. We can always, you know what I mean? It brings more of our story to the table. It's just adding to it. So, you know, an art form that's all about the human condition and telling stories about the human condition, like having children is part of the human condition, you know, that's how life continues.

[46:30] Jennifer DiNoia: So, and like you were saying, like you felt like cracked open when you became a parent. Like it is like, it's amazing how much more you can pull from, like as just the perspective is so much wider.

[46:42] Pearl Sun: Yeah, that's something that PAL, the Parent Artist Advocacy League talks about is seeing parents—not the fact that the fact that you're a parent isn't a deficit, it's actually something that makes me more valuable as an artist. And I think there's so much truth in that, right?

[46:59] Jennifer DiNoia: Yep.

[46:59] Pearl Sun: And that's why I think the conversation is so important to bring our children to the table in terms of who we are when we're in the room, you know. Yeah, I have a kid, I'm a mom.

[47:09] Jennifer DiNoia: Yeah, it doesn't mean that I'm any less, you know.

[47:12] Pearl Sun: It's like this is part of who I am and a major part of it. And I think the more that we speak it and um, and the more, uh, the benefit there will be, and also that perhaps inclusivity, and we won't have to feel like we can't say it because I do think there's still those moments, you know, where they don't want to consider people for things because they have a kid or they assume we won't do things or things like that. So I think the more we can talk about it and bring it to light and the more people listen to us, then, uh, yeah, it'll be good things.

[47:47] Pearl Sun: Thank you guys so much.

[47:48] Jennifer DiNoia: Thanks, y'all.

[47:49] Pearl Sun: Thanks for having us.

[47:50] Jennifer DiNoia: It was so fun.

[47:51] Pearl Sun: It was nice to see you.

[47:52] Jennifer DiNoia: I feel like we're like we're mama friends and I'm a friend.

[47:57] Pearl Sun: Yeah.

[47:57] Jennifer DiNoia: Oh, 100%.

[47:59] Pearl Sun: Awesome.

[48:08] Jessica Rush: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Mamas Talkin' Loud. Special shout outs to Rachel Spencer Hewitt for our fabulous graphic, Kristen Anderson Lopez, Bobby Lopez, and Justin Ward Weber for our superhum song. Our producer Dori Berinstein, and of course, the Broadway Podcast Network for bringing us to you. Have a good one.