This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Jessica Rush: Hi, everyone. Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of Mama's Talkin' Loud. I'm Jessica Rush.

[0:07] Cara Cooper: And I'm Cara Cooper. And today's episode is incredibly special to us. As most of you know, seven years ago, we started a support group for mothers in our industry. And about a month ago, we invited them to join us in a group scream. Like the New York Times did earlier this year, we wanted to provide a space where we could just let it fly. We've all been through a lot these past 18 months, and moms have borne the brunt of it. Put on top of it careers in an industry that has been shut down and is just coming back to life. It's an overwhelming time to say the least. As you will hear, this episode is a raw and emotional glimpse into what we've all been grappling with these past 18 months and how we are moving forward one step, one breath at a time. Here's part one of the Broadway Baby Mama's Primal Scream.

[0:57] ♪ Musical number: "Mama's Talkin' Loud" — performed by Jessica Rush & Cara Cooper ♪

[1:25] Jessica Rush: So happy that you're here. We know time is precious. Um, so thank you. Um, and before we dive in, we just want to acknowledge that we know everybody is at a way different point in this process, right? Some people have jobs they're going back to. Some people are diving back into the audition world and kind of negotiating that. Some people might not even know if they want to do this anymore after this year and a half. And we just want to hold space for all of it, that we're all in very different situations. We all have different home lives. Um, so just kind of, you know, you guys are great. The group functions so wonderfully as it is that we I feel like this goes without saying, but we just wanted to get it out there before we start.

Uh I mean, I we can just dive back in, like the big question, um, which may be getting a little ahead of ourselves. But uh, what is your biggest fear as we're returning to work um or returning to you know, this world uh as we used to know it, I guess. Um, but specifically pertaining to the business and your role in the business. Um yeah, does anybody want to start?

[2:33] Lynn: You just raise your hand, go for it. I mean, I I think for for me, it's kind of like what is it gonna look like? Um, you know, my husband was working in an off-Broadway play. I was about to start a show, an off-Broadway show, and then I got booked in something else, and we had all these things, all this work lined up. My husband and I, and even my son Dylan was gonna be in the show with us for that, and then everything obviously shut down, blah blah. And now it's like some stuff has been moved to 2022, and then there's all this child like maybe this will happen, maybe that'll happen. But then with now everything going on, I I just wonder, you know, I've had some auditions, I've had some re live readings, which has been like amazing.

Oh people, and like, uh look at you and say stuff, and that's been awesome. But I just wonder, I feel like what's it gonna look like? Like, I mean, uh, I mean, are we gonna audition only on videos now? And or what's it gonna be like when things swing? How much work is gonna be out there again? Like, especially like regional theater and stuff, and like, you know, and even when Broadway comes back, how how long will that stay? And how what will it look like? And and I know, and also just being with my family so much. I mean, it's you know, how is the what's the next like we kind of knew what had to do it before, and even though it was a shuffle and a juggle, there was still like okay, kind of had like a rhythm, right?

And then this happened, and now sort of getting into that rhythm. I'm not sure what it is because it's so and and with the new lovely variant and all that stuff. I just think about like what's so now what do we just keep moving? I just try to take it one day at a time. Literally, I'm like, I cannot look too far ahead because I will get overwhelmed in anxiety. We'll just I'll think I'm okay, and I'll have like this anxious rush of anxiety, like what's going on, and then it goes away. And I think that's so I decided to just go one day at a time, literally, and just you know, see what happens and where things go. But I do wonder just in a sense, like what's it gonna be like? Like, what it we kind of I don't know, it's all sort of new. Is there gonna be enough? Is there a you know, I don't know, and then you know, so that's kind of where I am at the moment, I think.

[4:35] Lynn: I would just be happy to share a little bit of my journey and story and thoughts around all this as well. Um I was performing in Frozen on Broadway while pregnant. We're working for the most supportive company, Disney, um, up until I was about 26 weeks pregnant on stage, and then 10 weeks pregnant off stage. An amazing thing happening there of supporting pregnant people in the workplace, making it visible, making it acceptable. It was awesome. Like, you can stay here until you literally walk or whatnot. Um, and it was a shock when you know, I'm six weeks postpartum, the world shuts down. It's terrifying, right? You have all those postpartum hormones because we're we're talking about the motherhood balance in this too, right?

Like the we have things that are so unique and challenging, and that I applaud, you know, Jessica and Cara bringing to light this journey of parenthood in our industry. But looking at it going, oh my gosh, and then we have the Zoom meeting that closed our show, and that terrifying feeling of like that silver lining is just gone, right? And I know we're all in different places, some people do have the shows to go back to, and some people don't. And you know, it's having two kids under the age of five, it's um it's very intimidating to face the industry and wonder what is out there, what's next? Are there going to be opportunities? Then my agent left, and I have a new agent and building a new relationship in a pandemic and trying to figure out how how does this move forward?

How do any of us move forward? How is our how are I I worry about our current actors and crew of what is going to happen on Broadway on our national tours? It's it's a very intimidating thing. And then flipping back to that parenthood side, you know, we're drifting a little bit as a family and trying to figure out where we're gonna land and having to make this decision by kindergarten, right? Because we're looking at the schooling. So it's that kindergarten decision, as I call it, and feeling like okay, if we go back to New York and we're in our small apartment, and all we're hanging on to is the kindergarten idea and the hope of what may exist. The remainder of 2021, maybe if it all goes well, the return of Broadway in 2022, how are our regional theaters, our tours?

How is this all going to flesh out? I think there's there's a a complete uh level of unknown that we all face, and that we're navigating these other beings while in the midst of trying to make our own decisions. I think it's it's pretty thick.

[7:19] Lynn: It's so interesting. You said that thing about trying to, you know, you're navigating all these new relationships, but you're a parent. So with that comes like the inherent instances in which you're gonna say no. And it feels like with the in the industry opening, you have to say yes to everything because there is so little of it there that you have to like literally say yes to every audition, every little thing. Whereas as parents, we have to advocate for what we are able to sustain in our current situation, whether it be financially or with childcare, and it makes that issue so much more complicated. At least I have felt that way. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but I used to feel really, really strong about advocating for myself in these positions and being like, I can't take that job, I can't take that job, I can't do that. But now, because there's just who knows what it will be, I'm feeling so much more pressure to say yes to things, you know, if even the audition, um, which I used to be a little bit better about.

[8:13] Cara Cooper: I don't know if that brings true for anybody. Kara, I have I I thought that same thing. Like, I'm like, I should go and I have to for everything. And then one thing came up, and I was like, I don't really want this. Like it just didn't work. And I thought, okay, so if I got, I did that thing, like if, you know, you don't even have the you didn't even do it, get the job, but it's like if I get this, I was like, what are you gonna do with my son and my husband? It's all of it would be like always gonna be like all of July. I didn't get it, so it was fine, it was good actually. But at the time I was stressing out. I'm like, well, what happens? And then can he come up and visit my son? Because he's eight, almost eight, so he's not vaccinated.

Can he come visit? How does that affect my job? We're getting hired. How does that affect, you know, the just everything? Like, I'm not gonna not see my family, but I want to also I don've got you have to work. And it was just this weird like, I'm like, what are we gonna do? Because before they could just come stay, and like who cares? But then now with all these other things in place, how do we I didn't I don't know what that's gonna look like. Like my family, we all travel together. Like we are like a little trio of performing. We go here, we go there, we go, and um like so. I don't know. I mean, that's been something that I've also was thinking a lot about.

[9:21] Chloe: Just to jump in on that too, I think um I'm in a different a bit of a different situation. And then I I stepped away from performing, went into the choreography, and then stepped away for a second. So I'm actually interested in jumping back in, having left it pre-pandemic, which is another long story. But I think what happened um to me a little bit during the pandemic was I changed my parenting style in that we no longer had child care. We got we are we let our nanny go. Um so e pre-pandemic, I was working nonstop, and we I worked through dinner and I would, you know, bounce around. And I think the transition from being that for for me, like I've been around my kids nonstop. I schooled them, you know, I homeschooled them, I put them to bed every night, I changed the way they were eating their diet, I changed like how we communicate with our family.

Like it was such a an intense family time for us that um when I have conversations of jumping back into it, it's almost like jumping back into it within a different family dynamic than I had before. Um, and part of one of the reasons that, and I know this has been a conversation among a lot of people, but it was really hard for me to be a performer and a mother. My husband's not in the business, so he works during the day and having to work eight shows and weekends and holidays was really challenging for me, um, family-wise. Um, but I just think that I've had to adjust my brain a little bit to say I went to the other extreme this last year of being a mother, and I jumped into it wholeheartedly the way we I jumped into everything, but literally like schedules, like we just did everything and it felt awesome and it was a project.

And so now I'm shifting a little bit to kind of what Lynn was saying, but like what will I be like going back into a working parent without sacrificing what I loved about this last year, but also being able to jump wholeheartedly into, and again, this goes back to what Lynn was saying, whatever is about to happen. Um and also just to add to what Lynn was saying, a little bit of off-subject, but not knowing what the industry is gonna look like makes it hard to figure out how to proactively build up your career again. You know, a couple of years ago it was like, oh, I knew how to connect with this person, or I would you know get involved in pre-production and this audition was right or this whatever.

I knew where the puzzle was kind of, and if I wasn't working, I had ideas of how to um connect and network. And I feel like not knowing what's happening makes it hard to be proactive, if that makes sense, because you're like, I'm I've got a plan, I'm gonna do this and this, but that might never happen. And so I feel like those two things in my brain of like adjusting my family life and then also figuring out the puzzle of how to because you know, being proactive is what makes people move forward in this business. And when you don't know what the industry looks like, it's hard to make a plan.

[12:37] Rachel: Hey Rachel.

[12:38] Chloe: Hi Chloe!

[12:39] Hi.

[12:40] Chloe: Oh my goodness, I have Chloe stories years, years ago. I know I was like feeling old now. Um it's firstly it's so nice to be in this group because I felt very isolated, and even though I have like mother performer friends, but in just in terms of like what I've been thinking, so it's really nice to hear other people's thoughts and like opinions, um, just because it's like so hard trying to navigate what we're going through. Um, and firstly, both of these things relate to what Rachel just said, but firstly, so I had my baby during the pandemic, so she's 13 months now, and um what is like really difficult is because all I've known of motherhood is being there 24-7 with my husband, also, and he just went back to work a month ago, so it's like it's just I really don't know how to navigate anything, childcare, her being away from me.

[13:49] Chloe: I did one like small small workshop for a week and a half, and it was actually away, and she came with me, and then my friend came to help look after her, so I like got really lucky, but any time I left, I mean, she was like crying her face, like she's never been away from me, so I just don't know how to even navigate child care. Like, like and also for things that a small projects, like if it's a week long, what do you do? Because it's not like you're gonna get a nanny for the whole time. But then I'm like, how do you get a babysitter? Do you get a babysitter that's gonna do what just a full week? Like, I mean, I there's many people I can ask, but it's just so overwhelming to me that even thinking about it is just like freaking me out, and then how do I deal with her being away from me?

She doesn't take a bottle, she's breastfed, she's like so I mean, like, we have tried with the bowl, but she's like, No, so she's like very attached to me. So now like trying to even think about that, which then makes me think, do I just not do this for a while? And then it's just also what other people have been saying about you know, there's not many jobs, is it even worth doing the jobs? Is the job paying enough? Like, just how do you figure it all out? And then what Rachel was saying again about you know, before I could go to class, I'd see people, but now like one, I can't really go to class unless I get a babysitter for her, and then is it even worth worth it? And secondly, with this Delta variant, you know, people that are vaccinated are getting it, and then I'm like, oh my gosh, I don't want to get it and give it to like my daughter.

It's just there's like so much, it's very overwhelming, and I feel like again, it's what um Lynn was saying. Are we gonna go backwards? A show's gonna open, and then they're gonna have to close. There's just so much. I'm like, is it even worth me bothering auditioning? Like, ah, it's so much to think about. Anyways. That's all I wanted to say, but I'm just like, I don't even know where to begin at this point.

[16:01] Jessica Rush: Chloe, I have to say, like hearing you saying all that, I mean, I'm I'm feeling anxious for you and overwhelmed. I mean, it's so true. Motherhood alone, motherhood, just in general, in normal world pre-pandemic, is overwhelming, and you have to figure out all these things, and it's a whole new world that you're a part of. But to think none of the it's like there's been no gradual entry into the world for you and for her. I mean, it's the two of you for 13 months. That's so long. You know, it's not like, okay, well, she's two months old, and I'm gonna leave her for a second with my husband while I go to dinner with friends, or I'm gonna have this so you could ease your way into the situation or to an audition or anything like that.

I mean, it's hard enough to get sitters when you have auditions. My God, how many times did I take my kid? And I was like, can someone please just watch her in the stroller at you know, Telsey or whatever? It's like, because truly you have to do that, you know, and and I can I I'm just sending you so much love and patience with yourself and with her and the situation. And I do feel that I mean, unfortunately, I do I don't think we're gonna shut down. I think we are at a point where we're just gonna barrel forward. We're just gonna like push through at Broadway as a whole, you know, maybe show to show might have to take time or close for a second or do something, or but I think that you know, the economy can't take it.

Yeah, New York needs people, they need tourists back, they need Broadway. I mean, gosh, you go to Midtown. I don't know how many of you have. I know some people haven't been to Midtown since March of 2020, and it's like you go there and so many places are empty. And so I think with regard to that thought, I don't think we're gonna have to like back up and go all over again, but I do think it's gonna take a while because we have to get the shows up that were there, and then they're gonna need replace. I mean, it's it's gonna be a minute, you know. And so with that thought, I would I would grant yourself a lot of patience and take some of the weight off of the business aspect if you can, because I know that feeds us as well, but I think the focus on getting her to the place where you can leave her. I think, you know, and where you where you can leave her, not just her without you, but you without her, because that's that's something too.

[18:28] Carmen: Grace, grace, grace, grace, and mo Grace. You must, you must, you must, everybody. I am praying for you all. Okay, I just want to say stuff that I hate real quick. So far as the auditioning. Um, I get it, you know. We producers, you know, you're not in the show yet, they can't help you out. You have to go audition, you know, you bring your kid, you see another mama. Hey, you want to switch? Okay, great, all that jazz. But my god, can we finally have somebody? Because you know the economy can't take it, somebody in the shows to watch the freaking kids, a green room. Something. When I did poor me and Best, and I'm grateful, Natasha missed a lot because she had freaking twins. Okay. She had twins.

They were the original babies in the um ART production. And then they transferred. And of course he had to get a fake baby. Yeah, and the real babies. But I understudied her, and my God, she had to call out so much. And that was great for me, like I said, but man, there were, I think maybe out of all the actors, there were probably 10 children in total from from the, you know, from the cast. That if we had um, like I said, like a person or a green room or something, they would have never missed shows. Because you know, Porgy and Best is freaking it's opera people, and they had us doing African dancing. It's it was a lot for everyone. So I just hate it. I don't know why they don't do it. Who liabilities?

My butt. If you get somebody, we won't miss. We'll be good, you know, help a sister out. Okay, I just had to say that because I hate it so much, and it drives me bonkers. So I know for us going back, we're gonna have to need that. We we have to have that. If you want us to keep us going, because it's gonna be hard to find childcare post-pandemic. It's just it's just gonna be super hard. Who do you trust? Like, is it it's just gonna be a lie? Who's vaccinated? Who's not vaccinated? Oh, yada yada woo-whoota. And these are our children, and whatever age they are, under the age, it's a 12 and under, or 12 and older, like my my kid is four, is going on five. We had COVID. I mean, his antibodies are done, but like it can happen so i i whether it's in you know the superstars contracts that they have to have somebody in the show like you know like Audra come on you know Kelly come on I need those in the contracts like and I'll say it's like look chick I'm in this show can you whatever but I feel like I know we have to have that so we can feel good give our best give bring our joy to the stage and and have a life because I always feel like you have to choose like I waited a while because I was like family career and you know I'm a thick black girl I don't get I don't get all these roles like it's I'm I'm very specific and what I do get is amazing but I'm real real real specific I can't just do anything and when something comes along you know I it I take it but you know it was obviously a risk but me and my husband wanted to have a child and we're both in the industry and like it was super hard both of us doing like even I think it was like four months at a time um we were both in a show and that was I mean the money we spent like holy cow I was like thank god there were Broadway shows but if I was doing you know off what we would have made nothing.

Would have just been like, oh hey, we did a free show. So I just had to say that because I I shut up Aaron. I hate things. I'm so happy though. My my son had a great day of first day at camp. Thank God we could afford it. And he came home skipping. And I was like, okay. And he hasn't been anywhere since, you know, since the pandemic happened. And I was just feared. I cried, we cried. It was crazy, but he came out skipping. I was like, oh my God. Okay. This is okay. We're good. We're good.

[23:22] Jessica Rush: So once again, grace, grace, grace, grace, grace, grace. And I'm done.

[23:28] Cara Cooper: We're all with you on all of that, Carmen. I feel like every single person was just like nodding their head the entire time. Um, Erin, why don't you uh unmute?

[23:39] Erin: Um, so my concern right now is is I'm I'm lucky. I I've been I'm possibly uh gonna be invited to be part of this comp a touring company. It's a national tour and and I'm I feel very fortunate, but it's the tour begins in Arizona, and I'm I can't my child is under 12, so he can't be vaccinated. So then it it becomes a like do I want to expose him to Arizona? That's if I bring him, and if I don't bring him, then it's a year away. And if it's a year away, it's away. There's not gonna be any like flying to sea because I could contaminate him, I could expose him to other people, you know, and it's uh, and so that's like a huge concern because it's like, well, really, is any amount of money worth it?

And I don't know. I don't know because it's like a year of employment, it's a year of health insurance and like those same, you know, it's all the fields, it's not even honestly that hard a part, you know, like it's not, I don't, I don't have to learn like eight tracks and like wave feathers behind somebody as they scoot across the stage. It's it's pretty, it's like it's a it's a cool deal, but that's a you know, I'm I'm like not sleeping thinking about it. And uh my callback is Wednesday, and I'm like, well, I mean, I have to go in and I have to do my best, right? Because that's that's the job, you know, regardless. At the same time, one of my best friends just passed from COVID uh Monday. So, you know, I'm very I'm torn about just self safety and about people who are not vaccinated, and not only are they not vaccinated, but they're just like very kind of like in your face virulent about it.

And I have this kind of I think I have a fear of like coming out of a stage door, because we all have to come out eventually, right? And you come out, and there's always people there, even if they say, oh, the cast's not coming out or whatever. But like what kind of people are gonna be waiting at the stage door? You know, what kind of like what are they going to? Are they gonna try and like yell at us about wearing masks in and out of the theater? Or they get, you know, it's just it's just the temperament of the country is really hot and I like Carmen I'm a person with melanin and I I have con and my particular group is getting attacked left right and center so I I mean I'm I'm worried if it if if the tour starts in the red states and I think it is I one schedule I saw said it definitely does so you know so that's that's my concern other and then and then of course like being aware like I I'd just be gone for a year wouldn't I wouldn't get the option of flying back to see and I don't think he'd have the option he and my husband would have the option of flying to me so then it'd just be like see you when you're 11 which is I don't know anyway it's like it's it's a situation but it's uh you know it's and again you're coming out of a business that is been decimated so what do you do do you take the work because it's there and because it does add to the general you know financial stability or do you say like hey maybe I'll go broke but at least I I know where my kid is at least I know where I am you know so it's it's you know there's like a lot to consider and and nothing's set in stone you know obviously but like I've never felt so kind of about any offer ever.

[28:07] Chloe: Like I've always just been like, it'll work out. But I don't feel that way this time around. And it's not because the team has not been great. It's not because of anything other than like the situation of the country and how we're living now. It's just like really, yeah, it's just really awkward. Like I don't think awkward is the right word. It's just really like I don't know. Anyway, that's that is what it is. That's what that's what I am concerned with right now. I mean, I think that really sums up how complicated this time is because that would have been a tough decision no matter what, right? So you get offered a year tour, you have to be away from your kid for a year, but you're gonna bounce back and forth, you're gonna kind of like figure it out.

But that's that in and of itself would have been a tough call. And then layer on everything that you're talking about, the fear of being in a state that you don't feel safe in, where the rates are high, where people are aggressive, uh, not being able to come back and forth. I mean, I feel like every single situation that we're in right now has all those complicated layers. And as parents, it is with this is the way we've been living for the past year and a half. Every little, you know, decision to walk out the door is complicated. You know, are we gonna go to this place? World enough people be wearing masks every is my kid gonna go to school? Like the decision fatigue, I I know for myself, I have felt so I'm like, I can't make another decision.

It is so, and it gets to the point where like I can't even decide what to eat for dinner because that's the simple decision, but because I've been doing all the complicated, you know, rigmarole in my head. So I feel like that really kind of subs up what this time is. We're gonna take a quick break. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.

[30:02] Grace: Hi, I just wanted to say first, I'm sorry if I'm gonna start crying, but I'm just so grateful for your podcast. Um it has been like a saving grace for me. Um, so thank you so much. I don't know either of you, and I I don't know many people in this group. I'm a like a fairly young mom. Um, but I'd love to just like introduce myself and tell you my peers. Um, but I uh I basically like graduated and then was like on the fan and tour for years and then came back and decided to have two babies back to back. And so I feel like I don't know. I'm like so intimidated by so many things, including like just auditioning in general. Like it feels like I'm I don't know if any of you guys like know what it's like to I'm sure you all do, like be in like long runs and just like not remember anything anymore.

And I feel like that was sort of me. I I like after that I was like, let me just have the kids back to back right now. So I have a one and a two-year-old. Um, and I just like was like, let me just get it over with so that I can sort of get back in the game. But in the process, we were like after our first kid, my husband was like sick of catering till 4 a.m. and like not seeing the baby. And so he um decided, like while he was on tour, he decided to learn how to code. And he learned how to code, but couldn't get a starter job in New York. So we moved back to Indiana right before the pandemic to um uh so that he could get a job and my family lives in Indiana. So he has a great job and we've been able to like pay our bills, which is awesome.

But I've just been like in crazy survival mode with two little ones feeling like this is not my place. Like I never expected moving back to my hometown. And I just like it's such a weird like Republican place and feeling like that part of my life feels like a different life. And I'm sorry, like also I have wines, like here we go. Um but like I'm just I just want to say how encouraging you guys are. Um and I don't think that you realize what a gift the Facebook group is, what a gift your podcast is. Like it is it's like my wife's blood. Um so thank you, first of all. Um and second of all, I think I just, you know, we're planning to move back to New York like before kindergarten starts for our oldest.

Um but I think I'm just like, you know, like practically speaking, it's just like weird to go from like it feels like because that was sort of one of my only like jobs, it feels like I graduated college and was like a Christine Jaya, and then here I am, like a mom bot of two, and like trying to figure out like where I fit in in roles, you know, like went from being like, and obviously I'm like I'm 30 now, but at the time I was like 23, 24, 25, you know, so like feeling like this known person, and then like moving into this whole other decade of life and now having two children and having a totally different body and feeling like really um not being in the city and like trying to do as many like online auditions as we can, which has been actually such a blessing that so many of them have been online that like a lot of us can do that from other places.

Um but I think I was just recently visiting some friends in New York, and one of the things that my friend said to me as I was sort of laying out all of my fears is she was like, Grace, you're basing what you're basing your future off of what you know, as opposed to what could be. And I think that that was really encouraging to me because I was like, I don't know what roles I'm supposed to play, I don't know what I look like. I don't know anything. I'm supposed to walk in with no confidence. I have like no sense of the industry, and I feel like having a long job is such a blessing and such a curse because you just don't know anything anymore. And so, and then all with the pandemic on top of it, I'm like, and living in Indiana, I'm like, could I be more disconnected?

But I think that I'm so encouraged, just I keep thinking about that over and over and saying that to myself. I'm basing my life off of what's been and not what can be, and recognizing that like industry's changing, people are changing, so much good, I believe will come out of this pandemic, and just the amount of us that have been like broken down to be built back up. And um, so I'm encouraged and trying to think that way as the future comes. But I'm just like so in awe of you guys, and I'm so encouraged by you guys, and I feel such imposter syndrome, even like being in this group. But I'm just like, thank you all for the example that you set for young women that like want to be moms and think that it's important work, and like also know that like I love being a mom, but I'm made of two parts, and even though half of that part is full, like 50% is still a failing grade.

Like I'm still at 50%, even though I love being a mom. And so I guess I'm just I'm sorry that I just rambled, but I just want to say that I'm so encouraged by you. Thank you for what you're doing. You have no idea the impact and the way that you bring me joy while I'm sitting there doing dishes for the 10th time that day. Thank you so much. You guys are amazing, and please never stop.

[36:35] Chloe: I just want to say, pandemic aside, moving to Indiana aside, all of that aside, every single person in this Zoom has felt exactly the way you feel right now. When you have kids, you're I you lose completely lose your identity, and you become this new person that you have to get to know. And this thing that is kind of all-encompassing and all takes what feels like every ounce of your energy, right? To raise little humans, especially at the age that you are at, God bless you. A one and a two-year-old, that is no joke. But you really have to like come to terms with this new version of yourself. And this new version of yourself is worthy of work, is just as uh talented and uh fruitful as an artist.

You just haven't figured out who that person is. And obviously you've been taken out of it for various reasons. Um, a pandemic kind of feels like like it was like the perfect crash of things to happen for you. But it's all in there. It it is it's totally there. And I kid you not when I say every single person who's in this Zoom has felt that way and still feels that way. Like I still have moments where I'm like, am I do I do this? Do I actually do this for a living? Like I said, when I got these sides, I was like, I do do this. This is part of me. And it was like a really big kind of epiphany for me because I've been really kind of tamping that down and be like, oh, what else can I do? Let me figure out what else can I do.

And I've tried a lot of other things, and I probably will continue to because that's just in my nature, but that's part of who I am, and that will never go away. So please know that like you are not alone, you are worthy, and you will get there. And it's baby steps, and like Carmen said, grace, grace, grace, like have grace with yourself and be able to like fall to pieces and put yourself back together again and walk into that room the next day and show whomever it is what you can do.

[38:32] Erin: I just wanted to add, um, in Korean, my husband is Korean, I'm not Korean, I'm Chinese, but uh in Korean culture, when you have a child, the name that they call you is changed. So, like my name's Aaron, right? And if I had, if I was if we were in Korean culture, my name would become Liam's mom. And everybody would address me as Liam's mom. I would not be Aaron anymore. I would be Liam's mom. That's it. And I think it is both a comment on that on that culture. Um, and I'm not saying it's any different from any other Asian cultures. I don't know all of them, but I think that even if it's not stated here in the United States in such a very clear way, is that we all become Liam's mom or Grace's mom or Sophie's mom or Zoe's mom.

Like we we become that and we start to introduce ourselves that way. Like, oh hi, I'm we don't start with hi, I'm Aaron, I'm Liam's mom. I go, hi, I'm Liam's mom. And I catch myself because I need to remember that I'm, you know, I'm more than Liam's mom. Like I'm Liam's mom, and I'm a lot of other things. And I think that Grace, it's so hard with little littles. It's just an Indiana sucks. I mean, I'm sorry, you know, but like, you know, I get it. I totally get it. I went to school in Pittsburgh and it was challenging for me coming from New York. And I think that, you know, once you've been out in the world, how you gonna keep them down on the farm? I think that's like a real thing. And I think just like really like Carmen said, just allow yourself to have those bad days and to remember that you're more than somebody else's mom.

And like maybe, you know, maybe there's something you can do, whether it's craft, I don't know, like it's crafting. I don't craft, but like I don't I'm terrible with a glue gun. But if there's something you can do that's just for you, whether it's like painting or journaling or something that gives you your identity, even in Indiana, then I think you should think about that, you know, because I get it.

[41:02] Cara Cooper: Like my brother-in-law is from Oklahoma, and it's really challenging sometimes to even talk to him, you know, because he's just he has a very set mindset. And it, you know, so I but I I see you, and I think you're more than your kid's mom. Like, I don't think your name should be their names first and then mom. And that's all I want to say. Sorry. You're a freaking rock star. You hear me? You drink your wine, you sing at the top of your lungs when you want to sing. You do you. You are a major freaking boss. You hear me? Glasses up, y'all.

[41:46] Jessica Rush: Ah, I love that. We've we've heard from a lot of performers, and I know that we have some other people here who aren't maybe on the performing side of things. And I would love for you guys to chime in if you feel so inclined about I mean, if you are in comedy management or stage management or something like that, like there's a heavy responsibility, I feel like probably weighing on your shoulders. Um, if you're in choreography, whatever it is, I would love for anybody with a different perspective to chime in if you have something to say.

[42:17] Alison: Hi, I'm Alison and I love you guys so much. It's been so great just having you in my life and thank you to everybody who always participates in the Facebook page and podcast. Really thank you. Um I have a four-year-old, she's and I'm a cellist, and I was also at Frozen. Um and I did want to mention um that when I started this meeting, my name popped up as Evie's mom. So I totally understand that that it's real and I feel that all the time. Um I feel like having the experience of being in Frozen, I I think I went through many different stages of grief because you know, first we shot and we were furloughed, and I think that I sort of had to come to terms with that. And you know, coming back eventually and missing your family, but feeling like they're gonna all be together again.

And then several months later, then when we were let go, sort of dealing with that other sort of set of stage of grief of the now what you know, you went from coming from a hit show thinking you're gonna be working for a really long time, and you know, the people that I sat next to every day just feeling like they were gonna be my family for years and watched my kid grow up and all that. And um, everybody at Frozen knows this already, but um I never I never brought Evie to the show because I felt like I had all the time in the world and she was obsessed with Frozen. And it was one of those things we said, oh when you're three and a half, you'll get to go. We'll go in March. And then it got because it got so crazy with the cast change and we were just in rehearsals and things were so busy, and I thought, oh, we've got time.

And I also was nervous to bring her too early because I didn't want her to want to come to work with me every night. And I had a you know fairly well adjusted child who was like cool with me leaving at night and and she never came. So I think daily I go back and forth between feeling more upset that I that she never got to see me, you know, doing this magical experience that um that we could have shared together, and then feeling like I've lost my job, like, oh crap, am I ever gonna work again? Um, and and I find, you know, I I spent the pandemic in remote preschool with her and completely lost myself entirely. And I would sort of see my my friends and colleagues kind of doing things here and there, and and we were trying to be super safe.

Having I live in a building with my mom, and we just wanted to be, you know, be safe and careful. And I just felt so so separate. And I, you know, of course, you wind up making new mom friends, and it's wonderful that you meet your you know, classmates and all those things, but I feel like I really I lost myself and the people that I that I've known for for so long. And now that things are reopening, I feel like I'm going through like different stages of grief. When you know, I get emails from Disney being like Broadway's back, and it's it's just so hard because you see the Disney flyer, and it's there's no more Frozen anymore. And and then, you know, just now that everything in the news Broadway's back, everybody that's not in the business.

I'm sure you've all experienced this people coming back to you saying, Oh, it's great, Broadway's back. So when do you start? And it's like, no, Frozen's not coming back. And it's okay, no, but when when do you do the next thing? You're always working, and it's like, well, it's it's yeah, I was really lucky. I I came from Kinky Boots straight into Frozen, and it was incredible that I you know haven't had to sub for so many years, but also like I haven't really been on the in the scene, and people don't know me the same way anymore. And it's scary to think that the only show that I've ever subbed on was that's still open is Wicked, and that was 10 years ago, and I have no idea he probably has a list this long of people.

And who's taking off now, anyway? Because who's made any money? So just all of these things are running through my head, and and every day, oh, or oh, I I hear you had a rehearsal. You know, what Broadway show is it for? And I was like, no, no, I mean it was really great to play at 54 Below last night, but it's not it's not the same thing, and it's not fully paying my bills. And I just feel like a whirlwind of emotions from you know people outside the business that don't understand that Broadway is coming back and it's wonderful, but it's for a very small group of people, and there are a lot of other people that are really hurting and struggling and and scared that um that I can really relate to at this juncture.

[46:29] Cara Cooper: Absolutely. I it makes me think of that. You remember that meme you guys where it was the like the people who don't understand Broadway, and they're they were like, Oh, you should be in Phantom, and they're like, sure, I'll go to the King of Broadway, and I'll say, I'm gonna be into Phantom. Like it just doesn't work that way for people in our industry, they just don't understand that you know Broadway's coming back. But that I was answering this question tonight. We were um swimming, and there were some friends being like, Oh my gosh, Broadway's gonna be back, what are you gonna do? And I'm like, nothing. I don't know. I mean, I'm auditioning, but I don't have an answer for you.

[47:01] Sarah: Uh Sarah, go for it. Hello, lovely ladies. Hi, I feel really nervous to talk. Um, hi. Um, some of you, uh just a very few of you know me. And um, hello, everybody else. And um, I was a Broadway performer and I came up from London in 2008, and then I was in um Broadway shows. Me and Wendy were swing sisters together and stuff like that, and then I've been associate on shows, and then now I'm just actually um about to start choreographing my own Broadway show which is exciting um but um even just this week my husband's a choreographer too and he's over in London doing um Back to the Future the musical and so we've had we're halfway through our three months apart after having you know um 16 months together we've been together 15 years and barely spent six months of a year together you know over those years but last week I was um I've been lucky to I've actually been doing a bunch of filming actually which has been really wonderful but then you know you don't know your call time until like 10:30 the night before and you're trying to arrange like babysitters and then um, you know and then you're getting in at 11 and you're doing the laundry and the dishwasher and whatever and just getting like four hours sleep and Jonah my little one he's two and a half getting up at five and then I completely lost my shit last week like really badly I was like I was so beyond tired I even went to the completely wrong location for filming on this one day and just was like and I've never done that before I was just so beyond tired but of course I mean definitely being English I always want to present myself with like all my feelings completely coffee pressed down you know but I will like give all the love to the room but um I was I was just said to my husband I was like I just need 20 babysitters on a list just give me phone numbers so I can just call anyone and then even there was a couple of days when I was like, I don't even know who's coming today.

But I know somebody's gonna knock on that door at 9 a.m. Kind of just the worst feeling. But also like I didn't know what else to do just other than you know, go to work and pay the bills and you know, and lucky enough to be asked to do a job and you know, to make some money, you know, so uh so that was kind of nuts. And um, but but I also will say like when all if when auditioning really does start happening again and and I I just know if lucky enough we were all in the room together, just know that I am squeezing your hand and I absolutely want you to be the best you possibly can be. And if you need to take a second and leave the room and come back in again, I'll be like, She'll be fine, she's gonna come back in a second.

And just know that I am rooting for you one thousand percent. And if it needs to take five times, ten times, it doesn't matter, because that's what rehearsals are for, and life is a lot, and especially when you're being a mama, and just know that I'm rooting for you like every step of the way.

[50:07] Jessica Rush: Thank you, Sarah. I mean, and I believe you and with that accent, how can I not? It's the most adorable thing. I know you and Chloe, it's like um no, I you know, coming back, you bring up how you said, you know, if you need a moment and you can leave the room and I'll say she'll be fine. She's got it. And I think back to a story that Kristen Anderson Lopez told us um on the podcast, I think, about how like they were in an audition and someone had to bring their child and they put the kid in the corner with you know, one mom behind the table was like, I've got crayons, and this one's like, I've got this, and they set the kid in the corner and the person got to audition and then they booked the job.

Do you know what I mean? So, like, I feel like my point being with regard to just um speaking it in the room, like Rachel tells us. And like Tara Rubin told us season one, you know, she was like, only by speaking and only by saying, Oh, yes, my kid is this now, or Elliot is starting circus camp or whatever. She said, by speaking to us in the room about your children, that is how we normalize being a parent in this industry. I mean, and for years, you know, it's like dads, there's no thought to it. You know, Kara and I were at Jersey Boys for six years and tons of dads. Kara was the first mom, and then I was second. And you know, it's like there were there were this was in year like seven of the show.

No one ever thinks about the men, you know, and it all falls to us. And and so much of the pandemic life has fallen to us, right? I mean, for the most part, you know, Alison, you were talking about homeschooling and you know, remote schooling and and who else was home. Well, Lynn, I know you homeschool, and you know, Rachel, you were homeschooling your kid. I mean, we're all doing this and picking up the pieces. And so I think that um, you know, all of these points are things that have just been brought to a head. There's these are the issues that we've struggled with for so long and that we've talked about. I mean, I and and I know that there have been times we've gone to equity about it and we've gone to the union with various concerns and various issues that we have.

Um, and I feel like it's fallen on deaf ears a lot of the time, but I know that change is afoot, and I know with regard to so many things in our industry, and and the time is ripe for it. Like, this is the time. So I I the point being, I guess, is that just, you know, Kara and I started this podcast to bring awareness, you know, after the group, we were like, maybe people need to know more about it. And it just drives us more and more every year. I mean, you know, it's like every season we just want to keep telling stories because by speaking about the motherhood experience as a working artist mother, that is how we make change and make it more accessible and not quite as um shut off from the opportunities that that we feel we are.

[53:04] Cara Cooper: Just to just to think we, I just want to piggyback real quick on what Sarah said about like if you need to take a second. I'm really hoping that obviously this past year and a half has been tremendously difficult for everybody. And I'm hoping that that is the way that our industry moves forward. That like there is compassion from everybody to say, like, if you need a minute, if this is hard for you, let it be hard for you. We got your back, you know. And hey, guys, right, starts with us. Like, we can do that for each other. And maybe there will be other people in this in the industry, regardless of the parenthood experience, but just like what everybody has been through, having that compassion to say, like, you need a minute. Like, you know, Simone Biles, she needs a minute, right? So she took her, like, we all need to have that compassion for ourselves and for each other.

[53:58] Jessica Rush: Thanks for listening today. Make sure to tune in next week for part two of the Broadway Baby Mamas Primal Scream. And while you're at it, we'd so appreciate it if you'd follow us on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts, as well as on Instagram at Mamas Talkin' Loud. Special shout outs to Justin Squiggs Robertson for our fabulous new graphic. Kristen Lopez, Bobby Lopez, and Justin Ward Weber for our awesome theme song, and of course, the Broadway Podcast Network for bringing us to you.