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[0:00] Charlie Murphy: Hello, hello, and welcome to Mapping The College Audition. I'm your host, Charlie Murphy, Director of MTCA. That's Musical Theatre, College Auditions. Check us out at mtca.com. And today we've got Curtis Holland on the pod. For our newer listeners, in these artist episodes, we aim to explore the paths to success that artists have forged and tease out how their theatrical training helped them to blaze that trail. In today's episode, you're going to hear that word, paths, a lot as we dive deep into Curtis' path and how it's kind of a less conventional one. And just every time we say the word path, the little dreamer version of myself who named this podcast, Mapping The College Audition, just gets a little warm, fuzzy feeling.

So at least there's that for you. We talk about it a lot in the episode, and then I'll do a takeaway at the end, all about paths and percentages and everything you've ever wanted as a listener to this very podcast. And for those fervent listeners, I'm just going to warn you, this is our penultimate episode of this season. So we'll be taking a short summer break for July and then back in August with a bang. Our last episode of this season next week is one you've all been waiting for with Victoria Bussert from Oberlin, formerly of Baldwin Wallace, and our very first College Deep Dive guest. And then we've scheduled to open our next season with having Baldwin Wallace represented on the pod once again.

Of course, with that always pending that scheduling conflicts don't arise since we haven't actually recorded that episode, but we have it scheduled. So that's the plan. And if I do say so myself, it is an exciting one. You'll also notice that during the break, a few new things, we are going to start to actually roll out those fun episode toppers I told you about for all the schools where situations have changed for them. So stay tuned for that. I'll let you know when those are officially released, but my goal is to have those finished by the end of the month for you, and hopefully they'll be all uploaded and sorted. So as you go back through previous episodes, you'll be able to tell new information, at least as I have it.

We'll also be releasing bonus podcast content during the break, though not what we've done in seasons past where we did these like re-releases of episodes. I think you can yourself go back, look through the catalog, listen to artists you're interested in, listen to schools that you're interested in, but I'm planning on some fun, different content for the break. So stay tuned to your podcast feed there. It might not be every week. It might not be on Wednesdays, but it should pop in a few times while we're gone. And as always, if you have questions or feedback for the podcast, feel free to hit us up at mailbag at mapping the college edition.com. That's mailbag at mapping the college edition.com. Or of course you can hit us up on social media, leave us those sweet ratings and reviews, all those things.

There is some chance I'll be bold and do a mailbag on the break while we're gone, though I also do like to save those up for some holiday episodes sometime. So we'll see on that one, but feel free to get those questions in or feedback or whatever you want at mailbag at mapping the college edition.com. I hope you're all having wonderful Junes and that you enjoy this episode with Curtis Holland.

[3:12] Charlie Murphy: Well, we are so excited to be joined by Curtis Holland. Curtis spent a year at Middle Tennessee State University, and we'll talk about that and the decision to leave school after studying at the Edwin Holland School of Dance. He's been on Broadway in Shuffle Along alongside MTCA's own Leo Ash Evans, Mean Girls, Funny Girl, which we saw as a group MTCA did at our Masterclass Week a few years back, then the Pirates of Penzance, Music Man, and The Great Gatsby, which we saw last year during our Masterclass Week, which basically is a way of saying, Curtis, you're going to be booking maybe Happy Ending, whether you know it or not, because we will see you there. He's also done season 10 of So You Think You Can Dance, So You Think You Can Dance, I think is what it's called. Curtis, welcome on the show. How are you doing today?

[3:53] Curtis Holland: I'm doing well. Thanks for having me. So excited to get to connect and reconnect. We were recognizing our TPAP roots and all the different ways that life has brought us together and not. I want to start you off with some of the how we start off all of our guests. I want to talk about the kind of college journey of it all. But before we get into that, just give me like the 60 seconds. We noticed the Holland name in your Edwin Holland School of Dance, but give me the 60 seconds kind of catching you up to like 16, 17, when you might have been thinking about college. So what was life for a young Curtis like?

[4:27] Curtis Holland: I was dancing at my father's dance studio, the Edwin Holland School of Dance. And I was in high school at a magnet program that had theater. So I was doing theater in the day and dancing at night. And I decided to go to school for sound design because it was the more practical choice of between that and going to school for theater. And my parents always wanted me to have a more practical degree. And then you could turn around and do theater and dance later and in a different way. And then I just got the opportunity through college to start my career early.

[5:06] Charlie Murphy: I love it. And maybe your parents have a little bit of a sense of the business being people who are in it themselves, or at least running a dance school to lead you toward that practicality. But before we get into the school and leaving school, like dancing at night, doing theater during the day, if you had been thinking about, hey, I could see myself eventually, like was Broadway the goal? Was dance the goal? I guess, how did like, how does the idea, when you come at it from more of a dance background, I'm always interested of like, how do you see yourself as a performer? Like, do you see yourself in, so you think you can dance, or dance competition world versus what ends up being, you're already in your sixth Broadway show and you look about 19. So like, how does, how does that?

[5:38] Curtis Holland: It's only my fifth because Pirates of Penzance was only the workshop. Our fifth Broadway show. It's still pretty damn good. These people are sitting there going, oh good. You're actually 24? How old are you actually?

[5:54] Curtis Holland: I'm 31.

[6:00] Charlie Murphy: 31. Get out of town, Curtis. You look not a day over 17, but at 31, have five Broadway shows. This is not somebody who like stumbled into, you are, we'll talk about the journey, but you, you have had such a, this, this Broadway success. Was that the, was that the picture for you? Like, would you have thought at 17, I think I want Broadway, or what did you see yourself in terms of your, your skillset?

[6:13] Curtis Holland: My middle school, mainly my middle school, we all just walked around saying wanted to go to Broadway just because that's what you do when you're in middle school at a, at a magnet school. And I was in the theater department. So we all said, I just want to go to Broadway, but I don't think we ever thought about it much further than that. And as far as dance goes, I also don't think that I was thinking I want to be in a concert dance arena as well. We were just dancing for dance sake. So that's something that I'm really happy and excited to share is that I did the things because I loved them, not because I felt like I had to do this in order to get to X, Y, and Z, but it's just, you know, we still say I'm going to be on Broadway one day, but every middle schooler in the theater program is saying that.

[7:06] Charlie Murphy: Totally. Especially if you're doing musical theater. Was there, is there, I just got kind of interested in sort of exploring the path of like, maybe we, maybe take me to So You Think You Can Dance, we'll come back to college here in a second, but like, you know, for the people who are on So You Think You Can Dance, what does it look like in that the mind of a young person who's pursuing dance, if it might not be Broadway, like what kind of careers or what are the results of going? Hey, because obviously people do make a successful career as dancers without specifically musical theater. What does that look like? Or what could that have looked like if you, if you consider that?

[7:34] Curtis Holland: Commercial dance. A lot of us, when we were on So You Think, we felt like we had two options and there are a million options, but the two main ones are you either go to LA or you go to New York. And I think only two or three of us came out to New York to try it out here. And then the rest of them went over to LA and have had wonderful careers as dancing and music videos, going on tours behind artists. One of the dancers from my season danced with Beyonce for a good long time. They opened studios. There, there are a million things to do with not only the name, but just the lessons that you learn from the show.

[8:20] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, totally makes sense. And, and I think that's a phrase probably many of our listeners have heard of commercial dance. Now you can, you get those as majors. Sometimes we see majors at school, you can go study commercial dance, but I'm not sure people always recognize what that career would actually look like, or could I look like, and even that there is some obviously crossover between the two. I know, um, you know, in my wife's cast of Jagged Little Pill, someone had come just off of the Beyonce tour. So it's like, that is totally possible where you can go in between and back and forth the same way you do commercials and actual commercials, you know, um, as an actor. So very interesting. Um, talk to me a little bit about, so you make the practical choice. Um, what, then how do you book? So you think you can dance from school and what was the decision, I guess, to leave? Was there any decision to think about not leaving? What did that look like?

[9:00] Curtis Holland: Uh, not, there wasn't really a decision to not leave. When, what happened was I was in school and while in school, there was a dance crew that did a performance at the end of every semester. And I joined the dance crew in the middle of the first semester. And we did rehearsals. We have this big show that actually is much bigger than, than I, than I ever expected it to be. It's called impact M P A C. And it's just a group of dancers who get together and it's, it's no, one's real major because we didn't, I don't even know if we had a dance major at the school. It's just a club.

[9:46] Curtis Holland: Yeah. Yeah. But I like the term dance crew more. It makes me sound more legit. You know, but, and I think I'm hesitating from saying dance club because there was just something more serious about it. Club gives it a little bit like, no, we were putting on a show and we were working. So we did the first semester. It was a hit. We start the second semester and we're in rehearsals. One of my friends in the, in the group with me goes, Hey, I'm about to go audition for, so you think you can dance. And I think you should come with me. And we were in Murfreesboro, which is 30 minutes outside of Nashville. But the auditions were in Memphis four hours away. So she said, we're going to drive up. And so maybe a group of four or five of us got in the car, drove up to support the two of us to go and dance and audition. And unfortunately she got cut that year and, but I made it all the way through and I made it to Vegas week. So that kind of just wasn't a, a thinker.

[10:54] Curtis Holland: It just wasn't. I just thought, I just said I had to go.

[10:57] Charlie Murphy: We get commissioned for the driver. I feel like those four people in the car should get some something on the cool little part of this journey.

[11:04] Curtis Holland: Yeah. I'll, I'll give them a cupcake.

[11:07] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. Cupcake. Yeah. That sounds like a fair commission for sure. What about, so after the sort of the shooting dance raps, are there immediate opportunities that you said? Some people go to LA, New York. Was there the possibility that at the point that you thought, do I think about going back to school? What did that look like for you?

[11:22] Curtis Holland: Yeah, there is the possibility, but because we had to strike while the iron was hot, our names were right there in people's faces because we were just off of the show and we got, you know, per diem and a little compensation for being on the show. So we all had a good little nest to make a move if we wanted to. And so that's kind of how you decided. And I just kind of came home, told my parents, Hey, I think I'm thinking about doing this. And they said, whatever you think is best. So in a month's time, I turned around and went, came up to New York.

[12:05] Charlie Murphy: That's so cool. And your parents, it seems like were supportive of that decision there, even though originally they said, Hey, maybe we want the more practical degree. Now they're seeing enough excitement to go, Hey, if you're gonna take this leap, take this leap.

[12:15] Curtis Holland: Of course. Well, it's right there. And gently, I kind of didn't give them a choice and they kind of knew that I wasn't giving them a choice, but they also, because they were in the arts, they knew enough to not strong arm me from it either.

[12:28] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. I like you said, gently, I didn't give them a choice. That's funny. Very gently. There was no choice, but in 19 years old at that point, you get to put your foot down a little bit. So talk to me a little bit about, so we talk so often about people graduating from BFAs doing showcases, whether or not they get an agent out of the showcase or whether or not, you're not always a guarantee that you will, but then sort of figuring out how to live in the city and do that. So what does that like now? You don't necessarily have an alumni network of a school, but you do have this, the momentum of the show. So how are you meeting agents, managers, and then figuring out those auditions at 19 years old as you hit the city?

[13:03] Curtis Holland: Okay. We have to do this in parts. We'll talk about community. We'll talk about agents. Then we'll talk about auditions. As far as community goes, there were still a lot of people who I knew from Miami who have come up to New York. So I just kind of reached out to them. There were a lot of people from Miami who I knew from up here.

[13:22] Curtis Holland: Oh, there was something else. Don't worry about it. I'll find it later. I'm going to find it.

[14:06] Curtis Holland: I was in the business now. And so he and our other friend from Miami who he was going to see, her sister and I, the first summer of New York, or my summer in New York, we were thick as thieves and we kind of had each other as community. So I don't feel like I came here alone. And I had so many other kind of webs to just look out to and hold on to. As far as agents go, I was lucky because being on the show, people were looking for me and I had people looking out for me. And I got an agent basically as soon as I came to New York just because of that. But that's just like the anomaly of it. You know, there's still... Yeah. And then what about auditions? Yeah, that third thing for you. You figure it out as you go. You just, you go in it. And I like to say that my aloofness to some of the protocol that is taught in colleges actually saved me because I didn't know how much I was doing wrong in real time. And sometimes that's better.

[15:16] Charlie Murphy: You didn't know what you didn't know.

[15:18] Curtis Holland: Yeah. You didn't know what you didn't know. And it's just, it made things easier. And then the people who are willing to work with that, work with that and say, "Hey, next time you go, you might want to do this differently." And that's all it is. But I feel like sometimes if you go in and you feel like you've done a million things wrong, then you can crumble and not feel the desire to do it again.

[15:38] Charlie Murphy: Totally. Totally makes sense. You'll beat yourself up in a different way when you're like, "I should know this. I know what those letters are. I blew it." Versus you're like, "Here I am. Let's see what's happening." What's the difference?

[15:44] Curtis Holland: Hey y'all. Yeah. Hey y'all, let's do this thing. Yeah. I don't expect like I know I have to be an expert on this. So talk to me, what is that? What is the distance then? So you moved to New York and then what is the distance between? So you think you can dance and it was Shuffle, the first Broadway show. Is that right?

[15:56] Curtis Holland: Shuffle was my first Broadway show.

[15:59] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. What was the distance?

[16:01] Curtis Holland: January, you're getting all my business. January 15th, 2024 is when I moved. And then we did a lab. Wait, not 2024. No, no, no, no. I can't. Oh, did I say 2024? 2014. Excuse me. Okay. That makes more sense. Now you're going back to me thinking you're 19, but I'm like, I don't think there's too many actual shows in here for that to happen.

[16:15] Curtis Holland: Yeah. I'm going to say that sentence again. January 15th, 2014. Oh, I really want to say that. And I got here 2014. Then we did a lab of Shuffle before we knew it was Shuffle. And maybe January, March, May, June, July, September, October of 2014. But at the same time, I was auditioning for the next year rep of Oregon Shakespeare Festival. And I went to Oregon Shakespeare Festival the next year in 2015. And in the middle of that, I got a call to come back for Broadway. So it's about a year and a half.

[17:04] Charlie Murphy: I love that part of the story. And I think it's something we've talked about before, the sort of sometimes opaqueness of even what it is to book Broadway. Because like, you don't even know you booked Broadway and you booked Broadway. Like you booked the lab, which could be a maybe something, maybe you come with it. You don't always know all of those things. So now as you're hitting the Broadway stages, now you've got the momentum, you've got the agent. I just want to talk about that perspective coming from the path of not having a BFA and really not even a full college experience. Did you feel like there was something that you were missing or did something that you said, "Hey, here's some of the advantages I felt I had the beginner's mind in some ways that was not present for my college friends."

But seeing all your friends who did go to school, was there stuff that you felt like, "Hey, I got to catch up on this. I need to, whether it's about continuing education for yourself artistically, or just something that you felt like, was there something you felt like you missed coming from this different path?

[17:56] Curtis Holland: The only thing that I actively know and I've said out loud that I know that I missed is the curation of a songbook.

[18:01] Charlie Murphy: You're coming in not ready to sing all these different material.

[18:05] Curtis Holland: Right. Other than that, I feel like I've figured everything out one way or another. That doesn't make me personally feel like I'm missing out on too much because I like the performer that I am, and I like my style. And the only thing that I feel like could have been missing was the consistency of a certain practice, but that can be built here in the city at all times.

[18:41] Charlie Murphy: Totally. And do you feel like there was, I guess, what about the sort of social element? I mean, certainly I don't mean like, "Hey, you're missing something as a person," but I mean, do you feel like there was something that you yearn for that you go, "I wonder what it would have been like to get those four years?" Or did you consider, I guess, going back at all? Was there ever a version of like, "Hey, I'm here in New York, maybe I'll check out one of these schools?"

[19:01] Curtis Holland: No, no, because I partied with the kids from Pace.

[19:07] Charlie Murphy: Still got a little bit of that experience.

[19:08] Curtis Holland: So I got the social experience. And then, you know, when I turned 21, there were bars, there were things.

[19:15] Charlie Murphy: Curtis, when you turned 19, there were bars.

[19:18] Curtis Holland: Thank you, thank you.

[19:19] Charlie Murphy: In New York City, I know there was bars.

[19:21] Curtis Holland: I was trying to be gentle.

[19:23] Charlie Murphy: That's fine. Be honest.

[19:25] Curtis Holland: But you know, like, I had friends regardless, you know, and I kept meeting people. I kept meeting. Wow, I'm doing really well. I kept meeting people from different walks of life. And then as I'm in shows, I'm meeting new friends and everything. So I don't feel like there was a social aspect missing. And that's just to say that, again, I respect the consistency and the preparation that is college. And with that, right beside that, I've also been able to figure out a lot of things and harder and not as accessible, but they were figured out.

[20:09] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, no, I love it. I mean, that's one of the reasons I want to have you on. We've done a version of this with a couple of people who didn't either finish college or didn't go to college at all. But I'm not sure that I've like, done the deepest dive. So I wanted to be like, I want to poke on. I hope you don't feel like I'm like, "Why didn't you go to college? Go to college." But like, no poking on what that feels like, because we often do talk about like, there really are, as I see it, three very distinct paths. When you look at those Broadway bios and where people went to school, you're going to see that big chunk of people who went to those most competitive schools, the Michigan's and the Carnegie Mellon's and the Baltimore's and the Elan's, you'll see a lot of those schools represented, then you'll see a lot of other schools, a lot of other training of what we often call us the second tier schools, the competitive schools, the ones that are still difficult to get into, but not quite at that level, you'll see a lot of those represented.

And then you'll see a lot of people who either didn't study theater in college at all, or didn't go to college at all, that there's always a big chunk, those aren't necessarily all exactly equal in all three in most bios, but almost, almost always, there's going to be nearly a third, nearly a third, nearly a third, and some version of it in all those different paths. And just to say, they're all in the same show. It's like, not like, "Hey, you get more credit because you went this way," versus they're all arriving at the same destination. It's just about kind of which path that you end up taking.

[21:21] Curtis Holland: Yeah. And I, and no, I don't, I don't feel like I'm being intruded on because I'm trying to be careful because I know that everyone's path is so specific and you kind of don't know which path, like, I didn't know that I wasn't going to finish college, you know? So there, there are a million, and then I know people who said, I know someone who I'm in my show with now who went to school for a semester and I think was in the dance program and they weren't treating him well. And he said, "I have to leave, I'll figure it out." So there are sometimes the active choices, there are sometimes the passive choices.

[22:01] Charlie Murphy: Right. And you, you have in some ways the privilege choice of being plucked out for some, an exciting opportunity as opposed to, "Hey, it didn't work out." But then of course, the privilege choice of going, "I'm graduating with this amazing BFA and I get to sit with this on my mantel," and, you know, so all these different paths. Do you ever feel like, you know, when you look at some of those casts, and again, this is not a truism that it's always true, but it tends to be that when you look at the leads of, on Broadway, I do think a lot of them tend to have those big BFAs though, of course, there's all these different paths. There's no, no one answer. Do you feel any version of like, "Hey, I, it's harder for me to get looked at for specifically leading parts, either without any of that training?"

[22:37] Curtis Holland: I don't, I don't think like that, because mine is a choice. I don't necessarily want to be a lead that much. There are a few projects that I want to be a lead for. But other than that, for me, I enjoy dancing, and I actually want to dance and I like dancing more than I like acting. And I like dancing more than I like singing. I love singing. But that's just my personal choice. So when you look at me and you ask me, I'm like, "No," but again, I think that school could potentially, and I say potentially, I chose that word very specifically, I feel like school can potentially curate your sound and your voice to make you a lead quicker and easier. But at the end of the day, if you got it, you got it. I don't know what else to tell you.

[23:37] Charlie Murphy: Ain't that the truth? Well, I have some question about that in the second half, as we talk about sort of what it is an ensemble and what that journey can be. But you definitely see examples of that where people do get plucked out of the ensemble and pop to these amazing leads and doesn't necessarily mean because of training or because it could just be that they go there, they were ready at that moment in their life to step into something different. Their voice was in a certain place. I totally agree.

[23:59] Curtis Holland: Yeah, yeah, I think, and I think that sometimes it's hard because you want to give school the way that it deserves. But I never want people to think that that is the thing that makes people who they are. Some people are just built that way. Like that's just the nature and all that school is doing is taking credit by saying, "Put your arm here, but instead of here."

[24:22] Charlie Murphy: Ain't that the truth? No, we talk about this in so many ways. This is true for school generally, but I think it's also true for these training programs. There is actually the training, which I think for a lot of students is very helpful. There's also a big process of this that is like a certification of like, "Hey, you get rubber stamped by the school because we think you have an amazing voice." And so that's just a little bit that's true for MBAs. So it's not just for BFAs where you get to go, "I got into Harvard Business School and so I'm probably smart," or whatever. You know, it's like they're just totally as that thing. Michigan says I'm good. I'll listen to that because that's someone else that that's that's true.

What about when you, I mean, I want to talk more about sort of ensemble stuff in a second here. But when you come to New York City, you mentioned the voice itself or the book itself, I should say, wasn't as dynamic as you wanted it to be. And, you know, even with let's say the goal is just to work on Broadway in exactly the amazing way that you have ensembling, covering. Was there stuff that from a skill set perspective, like did you feel vocally like, "Hey, I want to get into voice lessons so that absolutely that plays what acting lessons were the things you did acting wise of like, "Hey, if I'm going to be doing some of these, the book of some of these musicals, I want to get up to a certain place." How did that? How did you navigate that in New York?

[25:29] Curtis Holland: I have taken more vocal lessons than I have acting classes. But the vocal lessons were kind of the biggest game changer for me. Definitely. And so I think, see, and I think that I didn't say that at first as something that I wish that I had in college because I still found it.

[25:47] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, you still find it.

[25:48] Curtis Holland: Yeah. I mean, the high level acting classes may be trickier to find, they're still possible. But I think a lot of people also can learn from the experience of doing it from being in shows and watching other. I feel like, you know, I feel like I learned as much Shakespeare watching other Shakespearean actors in a show as I did in class. The experience of, yes, you learn some of the basics in school. And then I'm like, but then by doing you do watch. Oh, that I want to be like that person. What are they doing? You know, absolutely. Absolutely.

[26:27] Curtis Holland: Yeah. So my voice, my voice lesson journey was more important and really came to a head and I really needed it when I was doing Mean Girls and covering Aaron Samuels because Kyle Selig is a tenor and I'm not. And so we had to get into lessons and really figure it out and navigate it. And we did. And like you're saying, just the experience of it all is kind of what keeps me going. And the I can do it after you've done it is the thing that propels me forward with all of this.

[27:01] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, I love it. All right. Well, that leads us perfectly into our break on the back. And I want to talk about like, what are the expectations of a Broadway ensemble member, which when you're covering tenors and you're acting, you're singing and dancing and all those amazing things that we have to do. So we're back in a flash.

[27:12] Charlie Murphy: OK, we're back with the great Curtis Holland, and we're going to talk a little bit about this experience of like what what makes a great ensemble member great. So I want to hear about like specifically, I guess, like what the skill set expectations of people use the word triple threat or something. Some people feel like it's a little bit outdated, but basically what is the expectation of like what you have to do at what level if you are dancing an ensemble, covering a lead role, let's say, which is often the case that you're doing some version of covering covering other ensemble members sometimes in other tracks? What is the expectations of just a skill set of what it means to be a Broadway ensemble member?

[27:45] Curtis Holland: It depends on what track you're going in for in the ensemble. And if we talk about the three fingers are back, we have three fingers with three back. If we're talking about singing, dancing and acting, just depending on the show will change the ratio.

[28:10] Curtis Holland: Because, like, when, like, in our show, The Great Gatsby, we have some people who are strong movers in our ensemble, but they're there so that they can cover Gatsby and Tom and, and Nick and Jordan. So we don't need them to be, they don't have to be tap dancers. They don't have to. No, and I hesitate from saying that they're not standing out because we all move as a unit. So if one of us stands out, we all stand out. So we are a unit and we all have to dance actually the same amount. Everyone's getting the same notes about dynamics and everything. But as far as, like, any special skill, when it comes to dance, like, you don't have to be proficient in tap dance if you're going to be covering Nick. Stand there, hit the steps, still be able to give movement quality, and then turn around and sing your face off.

[29:02] Charlie Murphy: Yep. And you're being, I mean, speaking toward the movers, but I can speak a little bit having now seen you in, I think, three or four shows, that, like, you are a standout dancer. You're someone that I will remember, sometimes because they give you specific moments in some of these shows where you go, and then there is a solo moment. It's like a solo song, but it's a dance moment where I'm like, this is Curtis showing off his stuff, like where we get to be. And often that might be, like, it seems like a couple of members of the cast that are like, when we need a flashy dance moment, these are our dancers who are going to do the backflips, they're going to do the amazing tap solo, they're going to do the whatever is called for.

I guess, can you speak as someone who, and maybe I'm characterizing you as that, but as someone who has that skill set, what does that look like when you're like, hey, I'm not just a strong mover, I'm here maybe to excel at the dance level?

[30:00] Curtis Holland: Yeah, when you're there to excel as a dancer, and you can and do, just make sure that your voice is up to par and make sure that you can read sides on a piece of paper when you walk into the room. Because if you never want, and this has happened to me before, you never want the things that you are not great at to stand in the way of the thing that you are wonderful at doing. And it feels like the most unfair slight when that happens. But you just have to make sure that all your chops are moderate enough, that they're not offensive, so that you can let your thing that you do really well shine. If they have to be strong movers, then you still have to be a strong singer. You don't have to be the greatest singer in the history of the world, but you have to be strong enough that you're not popping out of the cast.

[30:41] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, because harmonies are still tight and dynamic, and these days, there are budget cuts in the business, so they're making sure that everybody can do everything. And these casts are often not that big. I mean, even the big show musicals, that's where I sometimes, I wonder for people who don't go to New York and see a lot of shows, like, if what you're comparing it to is like your high school show, where there's like 60 kids, and there's like a chorus line, and they're, you know, your cast of Les Mis, where someone basically lifts a rifle, and like, that is, I mean, I have seen multiple, there are multiple Broadway ensemble members that I have no personal relationship with, but I'm like, I've seen you in four shows.

I don't know if you've ever said more than three or four lines, but you are a standout. Like, I remember your performance, here was you in Waitress, here was you in, I saw you in the, I love the way that you just, you embodied, but like, they're also, there's not 70 of them, like, you're all doing a lot, like, you're, there's the expectations are, you will remember those people, you know, as a New York theater person, like, you'll have seen these people, and you'll have a, you'll have a relationship with an ensemble member in a way that I think is different than, like, community theater, or high school theater, or sometimes in these other places.

[31:49] Curtis Holland: Totally, I never even thought of that. I agree.

[31:53] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. Can we talk a little bit about, I want to talk a little bit about the auditioning of it all. So, you booked the lab of Shuffle, and maybe we can talk about what it was like in those first couple years, but then also maybe how it's shifted in your fifth, I said sixth, but let's call it fifth Broadway show, but just, like, as an ensemble member, like, what are those expectations from the audition experience? Obviously, there's going to be some version of a dance call where they're going to see you dance, at least in some way, though maybe you can tell me how that shifts as you get later, but, but, like, when you're booking Shuffle, what did you have to do to book that first lab?

[32:22] Curtis Holland: Oh, gosh, 11 years ago, I'm fighting to remember. It was either 11 or one years ago, it's not sure. Well, you know, you know, a little difference. I, what I remember is that we had a dance call, and I think, actually, I only had a dance call. Yeah. Because what we were doing first was just a workshop, and it was an untitled workshop with Savion Glover, that's all it was titled as. So we did a workshop where we did a tap combination in sneakers, in character shoes, and from there, we never put on tap shoes, and from there, he picked his people. That's kind of how it went. And maybe with that expectation of the show that, unlike some of these shows we're talking about, there wasn't necessarily quite as much acting expectation and singing expectation as there would be in some other shows. Is that fair to say?

[33:19] Curtis Holland: That is fair to say with the ensemble. And he kind of created his army of tap dancers first. And then, I think, I don't even, I'm trying to remember, I don't think I was ever asked to sing throughout the whole process, because I was gone for a few labs while they were doing other ones. And they brought me back just to do the show. So I was never asked to sing. So this was a little bit of a different process. But then there were things like Mean Girls, where we had, Mean Girls, we had, we learned, we learned to dance combination first. And then we got asked to stay and sing a song.

[34:02] Charlie Murphy: Sing your song, go home, that's day one.

[34:05] Curtis Holland: Call back.

[34:06] Charlie Murphy: The song you're bringing in, right?

[34:06] Curtis Holland: Yes. Yes, something from your book. You come back for the callback. And before you dance this time, you go through Mary Mitchell Campbell to get screened to sing.

[34:17] Charlie Murphy: Ask Mary Mitchell Campbell, yes.

[34:19] Curtis Holland: Love MMC. So you, you sing for Mary Mitchell Campbell, and she either gives you, you know, a go or a stop there. And then you wait, you come back, you do the same combination again. Now there are more people in the room. And today you've prepared sides as well. So after that, you read your sides. And that's when you know, I read my Aaron sides.

[34:43] Charlie Murphy: But we didn't do any songs. We just, we just read sides.

[34:47] Curtis Holland: And Mary Mitchell's just hearing your voice. She's not hearing you sing Aaron Samuels yet.

[34:51] Charlie Murphy: Correct.

[34:55] Curtis Holland: Yeah. Never heard me sing Aaron Samuels. Just hoping you can do it. Just from what she's heard of your voice. She goes, Ah, I think Curtis can do it.

[34:59] Charlie Murphy: I think it'd be fine.

[35:04] Curtis Holland: Yeah, from that and scene work. And so then for the final callback, now there are more people in the room. This is when Tina's in the room, Casey's in the room, like every single person is in the room. And you do the same combination one more time, you sing one more time, you do the sides one more time. And then you cross your fingers and you hope and pray.

[35:19] Charlie Murphy: And tell me a little bit about, like, you know, we're so often talking about this with our high school students as they're doing their college auditions of like, you work on this material, and then it's the real audition. And this sort of adrenaline kicks in and what that's like. And then it's the audition for the dream school and the adrenaline kicks in. So like, what is that experience as you're doing the same material again and again, and the stakes are raising? Like, how are you psychologically like, staying in that place of like, just do the first audition you did again, when now all of a sudden it is Tina Fey and it is Casey Nichols.

[35:51] Curtis Holland: It's amazing, like, you know, people in the room. What does that feel like? I was lucky because this was still early on before I had a complete sense of what was happening. So I was just going in to twirl and sing and do the thing.

[36:01] Charlie Murphy: There's a mindset, you're still twirling. Casey Nichols is not intimidating to you, you're going, I'm in.

[36:05] Curtis Holland: But really, though, like, great. Oh, what did he do? Oh, okay, that's cool. Like, that's kind of where I came from. But it, again, it's helpful. And I hesitate to say helpful, because I'm not trying to say don't know who people are. But, you know, if you can find with knowing who people are, if you can find the reason that you love to do this, and lead with that first, I think that's what gets you the job. And this also, it's so hard, because we want to, we want to say this shouldn't be about getting the job. We're going to say that we want it to be both. I want you to get the job. But I also want you to have fun. And I want you to feel like you just got to express yourself and twirl.

[36:50] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, ain't that the truth? No, it's like, it's the cycle of it. It's like, not knowing, I guess, keeps it low pressure. And then there's knowing and putting pressure on yourself. And then there's that, like, next phase when you get through it, where it's like, I know who this person is, but they're also just a human being. And I also want to just show this person being this person, my joy of this art form. And if they like me, like, no, like that you're there, that's, that's almost gets you circle all the way back to the beginning, basically.

[37:11] Curtis Holland: Totally. And it makes me feel like all you can do is be prepared, because once you're in the room, there is nothing more that you can do. You cannot step to the side real fast and have a 15 minute voice lesson. You can't step to the side and call up Bob Krakauer and say, Hey, do you have time for a session? Like, yeah, it's done. So have you done the work before? Okay, great. Relax and twirl.

[37:38] Charlie Murphy: Yep. How does that shift for you now as you're, you know, when you're booking Gatsby or whatever, and now you know, there's not just a little bit of resume, but now really, there's people have seen you and stuff. They've know, they're familiar with your work. They've seen you cover. So it's not just, Hey, I know this is a great dancer. Like, does that shift for you? Are you at a point where you're now you're getting, Hey, we were interested in us doing this workshop versus auditioning for workshops? Or how does that work in terms of how the auditions shift as you get into it later in your career?

[38:01] Curtis Holland: I mean, it just depends on the workshop. And it depends on who has seen me. And also, it could be a room of people who know me mixed with people who don't know me. So it's the people who know me vouching for me for saying, Hey, can you just send them? Do you mind coming in? Yeah, send a tape.

[38:21] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, yeah, send a tape come in. So but even that feels like, like you said, I'm now coming in for friends. And even going back to like the community of it all. And the fact that as I've gone through, because I've been here for 11 years now, my community has grown immensely. And even just like the Hey, how are you? How are you is have turned into like people that you can actually check in on and who can also vouch for you in the room. So you can walk in with a different, a different feeling. And the veil is kind of taken up to say, Oh, these are actually just people. And these are people who do believe me, especially casting. These are people who are rooting for me. Have I done the work? Am I am I prepared? And this is what I have right now.

[39:10] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. Yep. That's all set. Um, can we talk we've talked a little bit on the show about covering and what that can mean. You sort of mentioned, Hey, it depends which track you're going in for what you're going in for. Can we talk a little bit about what that means when you're talking about like, Hey, what it is to cover a lead you have a covering and Aaron Samuels versus like parts that cover other ensemble members and maybe even like the idea of like split tracks and how like different shows will break those responsibilities down. I'll say personally, like that is the place where my brain would just absolutely explode. The idea of like learning a script and knowing all the parts of a script I can imagine, but knowing all the different, different movements for different ensemble places and what needs in different harmonies and stuff like that. So how does that work or how has that worked, as you say, in your career?

[39:46] Curtis Holland: So I'll speak to the partial swing first because it's close to me now, because we have so many partial swings on Broadway these days. And for those who don't know, if there's anyone who does not know a partial swing is a swing who is on stage for either a few numbers or many numbers in the show, just to give the show more body and give it a little bit more fluff. But they still have enough space where if we had to put them on an actual ensemble role, their track can be easily cut. So you'll usually see them either in the back line or on the sides in numbers or in spaces where if we had to get rid of them, it doesn't affect formations too much.

[40:33] Charlie Murphy: Yeah.

[40:33] Curtis Holland: Now, that being said, because of that, it's easier for them to keep track of what's happening with each ensemble member because they're not in as many things. But, you know, now there's the added layer of I also have my track and it just depends on the show. Sometimes they're doing a lot, sometimes they're not in their numbers. As far as covering a lead, the thing that always gets me is that you just have to be ready to go on at any time, at any time. Like you, somebody could have a mid show call out and then all of a sudden you're on and they're excuse me, as I talk about it, there's no room for someone else coming in.

[41:15] Charlie Murphy: Do we have a partial swing ready to finish this podcast for Curtis?

[41:21] Curtis Holland: But there there's no there's no oh my my throat is feeling finicky or there's just more pressure to be on and you get less rehearsal. Often you get less time to see the show because also if you're an on stage cover, you have your track every night. And so sometimes you're changing while your lead that you cover is going through their big monologue that you want that you would like to be studying and seeing all the nuances of. You don't get to see that stuff. So there's a level of you just have to be ready. And I think that's where I think that's where school comes in handy because it gives you chops to just be able to like fall back on it at a drop of a hat.

[42:08] Charlie Murphy: Yeah. No, it's so we always make these sports analogies in the bottom. Like it is the thing where it's like it's almost more impressive.

[42:45] Curtis Holland: Yeah, so I think it's really there's pressure to it and we are a resilient bunch. I was gonna say the word crazy, but I'm gonna... It's an insanity, I mean it is an amazing skill set. I mean, I'm not just being humble when I say like to be able to hold on to multiple tracks at once, especially again if there's a facility with movement and singing that like I think a lot of people are like I kind of could imagine like learning a harmony and doing it. But like learning four harmonies at once, my friend Lisey was on the podcast where she was covering "Lovely." Yeah, she was like at one point I was singing all the different parts of like "Bobby, Bobby, Bobby, Bobby," like all of those. And she was like, I just need the light to come on.

When the light comes on, that means I sing my body, which one I'm on for tonight. Like that is a skill set that is amazing, but it is crazy-making. It teaches you a lot of people you'd be like, it is juggling balls. How do you possibly hold all those together? And you never know which one is gonna come down at which time. Ain't that the truth?

[43:59] Curtis Holland: All right, as we move to wrapping up a little bit, I'd love to get some of the perspective of now over a decade. It's unbelievable. For anyone watching the video again, Curtis looks like if you could still play high school, like you could be playing, you know, a 16-year-old on TV. Thank you. I haven't even shaved yet.

[44:14] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, because you don't have to, is what you're telling me.

[44:18] Curtis Holland: No, but it's someone's been now over a decade in this industry. You know, you have overseen a really big transition in our industry in terms of how it was in 2014 and how it is now. I just love how has your experience been about like how rehearsal rooms have changed in the past 10 years? Like certainly with the influx of people coming from college, I think that is affecting it. Certainly COVID affected things, but you know, what is different than from what you've seen in 2025 versus in 2014?

[44:45] Curtis Holland: Oh, that's hard because I also got older during these times, so I changed at the same time.

[44:51] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, yes, but um, I will start by speaking as to how I changed and maybe that'll inform what I think about how the industry has changed. But I walk in knowing that people are rooting for me more now than I did before. Like I think maybe there was a little bit of feeling like you have to prove yourself or is this a fluke after the first one? Like am I supposed to look a certain way? Do I have all the chops that I need? And at this point, I'm like I was there for the audition process. You saw me do this, you saw me do that, you saw me do this, you saw me do that. Anything else that you did not screen that we're finding out in the room, it's not my fault. I didn't lie to you. I showed you exactly what I had and I promised you I put my best foot forward, but I gave you what I had.

And there's something about feeling sound and this is what I have to offer and knowing that what I have to offer is good. And granted, the five Broadway shows can give a sense of validation, but more than that, like I was good before that. I was good because of the way that my family raised me. I was good because of the company that I keep. I was good because of my spirit and the way that I was just born. Like there are just reasons why I'm good before and that these spaces do not define me. I just get to bring myself to these spaces. So like just finding that more, but again, COVID helped with that where we all felt like we had to like sit with ourselves and find out who we actually are and what happens when you don't have that thing that you were calling your identity for a long time. Who are you actually? And then just coming back and being like, y'all, in two hours, we're about to put on makeup and made costumes. Can we just chill and tell the story?

[46:54] Curtis Holland: Yeah, so but I think where the industry is concerned, I feel like between this year and last year, I feel like we just got back to where we used to be in a way. That's just as far as like spirit and not feeling broken by the pandemic anymore. But I don't know, I feel like the 2014s and the 2015s, I can only speak to the experience I had because a young person going through that, I was a very young person. I was like 20.

[47:29] Charlie Murphy: It's so interesting. I think it's the first time I've heard that perspective of it. Like you took the journey with the engine. Often I'm talking to older people about that. Oh, look how the industry's changed almost from the outside. But you're really saying like, hey, I took that journey with the change. Look, I went through that self-discovery that the rehearsal rooms are going through, these conversations about mental health. And you're like, I'm doing that for myself too. Like that seemed like some of that was happening in all those rooms as it was.

[47:55] Curtis Holland: Well, 'cause that was my BFA and it was my master's program. Like this, that was the time when I was learning the stuff. Like that's where my mind was still open to the education. So I was learning in real time.

[48:04] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, that's so interesting.

[48:06] Curtis Holland: Hard knocks much you get because you're in rooms of people who just went to these programs too. So you're getting a lot of the by osmosis, a lot of that experience. I know you're drinking with the pace kits. You're getting it not just by osmosis, but partially from the bar experience. But getting that experience in those rooms of like the conversations that happen in colleges which are spilling into rehearsal rooms, you're then all of that as it's coming to.

[48:26] Charlie Murphy: Yeah, and then so 'cause again I had Shuffle Along to begin. So honestly, it wasn't until Mean Girls that I got a lot of the real, not the real, but I had more BFA kids in Mean Girls than I did in Shuffle. But what I had in Shuffle was Audra McDonald, Brian Stokes Mitchell, Billy Porter, Joshua Henry, Brandon Victor Dixon, Adrian Warren, Felicia Boswell, Amber Iman, Brooks Ashman.

[49:01] Curtis Holland: Yeah, and that's not even before getting to but Christian Dante White, our bender. Like we had so many. So I, and they all like kind of looked over us and particularly me. I can speak for myself, but they just like put their hands on us and said, come this way. This is how you do this. This is what it is. And not only by actually doing it, just by being and being a leader. And so last thing is that I feel like now I understand the responsibility of having ten years under my belt. And so the way that I move through spaces now, I know that somebody's looking at me the way that I looked at somebody who is ten years older than me ten years ago.

[49:50] Charlie Murphy: You may be a young veteran, but you are a veteran for sure.

[49:51] Curtis Holland: Yeah.

[49:52] Charlie Murphy: What about let's wrap with any advice to a young artist? You know those 18-year-olds out there who listen to this or, and also you can choose your own adventure if you'd rather give advice to the parents because we have a lot of parent listeners too. You know, as you think about like people who want to grow up to be Curtis Holland, what advice would you give to those young people or the parents?

[50:11] Curtis Holland: You're gonna be what you're gonna be. You just are. You just are. And there's going to be a time that you feel like you need to grip and fight. Follow that. And then there's gonna be a time where you feel like you need to rest. Follow that because at the end of the day, you have less control of so much. And the only thing that you can control is the grace that you give yourself and the way that you follow your intuition. And I feel like if you do that, you're gonna end up where you were supposed to be and there is no issue with wherever you end up.

[50:50] Charlie Murphy: Well said. You're gonna be what you're gonna be. Curtis Holland, if there are places we want to find you, the things you want to plug, things we got, people got to know about our places they should be following you on the social medias.

[50:59] Curtis Holland: I do not have social media because I cannot.

[51:04] Charlie Murphy: We love it. That's my favorite thing you've said today. I do not have social media. I love it.

[51:08] Curtis Holland: So honestly, if you're ever curious, hashtag Curtis Holland to see what comes up. If not, just look at Broadway World.

[51:14] Charlie Murphy: Well, when we do that, we're gonna get some weird old bios like we do.

[51:18] Curtis Holland: Fine, be like, where does that school come from? I'm like, well, that's good. You don't have social media.

[51:24] Charlie Murphy: Curtis, thanks for the time today, man. It's so good to get shot with you.

[51:33] Curtis Holland: Thank you. Same to you.

[51:37] Charlie Murphy: Yes, yes, yes. I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Curtis. I was really excited to get to be a little firmer and trying to understand, at least trying to explore those pros and cons of not finishing the college or not attending a BFA at all and just trying to understand all the different paths as best as possible. You know, we've talked about it a bit before with a few different guests. We just hadn't gone quite as deep into it as I wanted to do here and especially that specific path where it's not just leaving a BFA program a year or two early or even after a year or two. We've had that a couple times, right? But really skipping the college experience, at least the college BFA experience almost entirely.

You know, we talked about this a bit with Cameron Adams as well, but I do think it's worth noting that I think the most common version of this being successful from a professional perspective is with people who are very highly trained dancers, right? I think of the three disciplines, this is the one where it's most possible to be really at a professional level at 18 and one where your youth can actually be a really helpful factor in your early career as well since, you know, the career span of a Broadway dancer is likely not gonna last quite as long as a career span of someone who's primarily a singer-actor. Again, there's no hard and fast rules, but this is a case where as a dancer, your youth can be particularly helpful, right?

And I think it's just, it's probably the most possible to be at a sort of complete Broadway-ready level, you know? As always, there's no one-size-fits-all rule. And of course, we see young performers with preternatural singing and acting gifts as well, of course, right? And honestly, I think the singing at 18 can probably be just as high level as the dancing, but it's just a bit less usual to be hired as someone who's only a singer if the acting isn't also at the highest level. Just in terms of the kinds of jobs that you would get where it's not shocking that you would see a Broadway dancer where that skill really stands out as the strongest. And in general, in my opinion, there are not as many 18-year-olds who are ready for the high-level mature acting that a 25-year-old is gonna be.

Though, of course, we talked about this specifically in the interview about all the ways in which it's important to kind of buttress all of those skills in terms of what's needed in different shows and what your role is gonna be. And, you know, being a good dancer, of course, also inherently does have an acting element of wealth since you're performing as you dance, right? So we've talked about that a lot of times in the show that you're always acting, right? But there is a version of being hired to dance and not speak where it's less likely if you're not a strong dancer that you'd be hired to sing and not act as well. Again, not impossible, but more likely that you have a slot where you go, "I'm really dancing."

And as Curtis mentioned, his first role that was really just dancing versus it's unlikely you just sing and you're not also acting and covering and doing other things as well. Again, all this stuff just depends on the show. But sort of speaking to the numbers out there as I see them, that this is probably the most likely version of those paths. And we'll talk a little bit more at the end of the segue about that as well. You know, and the goal for most people when we talk about paths, the goal for most people is not just to make it to that first show but to be able to have that sustainable career in multiple different kinds of shows, which of course is where a foundation of training can really help it can really come in, right?

That's not to say it's the only way to get that training is in a four-year environment as we talked about in this episode, right? Totally possible to buttress those skills without necessarily going to a BFA, but it's a more unique experience in a more unique path. Um, I thought it might be helpful just to once again kind of go through those different paths which I touched on in the episode itself. I think quickly with Curtis and just look at those within the context of an individual show. So I want to kind of blow out one of the individual shows, but just look at these paths first. So again, those basic branches, I'm gonna break them into three even though of course you could break it many times.

So this basic three branches are those people who have gone to what we call a most competitive tier school, meaning that's a school that has a lot of applications and accepts a relatively small amount of students, which is the end goal for a lot of MTCA students. Though again, certainly not all, plenty of people, this is not the ultimate goal. But for many, that's the ultimate goal is to go, I'm looking at those most competitive schools, right? And each show will have different schools represented, you know, more or less of this school. I mean, of course in the randomness of it all, but most shows will have a significant chunk of these most competitive tier school students, right? Or actors, I should say.

And then that second path would be people who've gone to what we call a competitive school, meaning still an audition-based program, still competitive to get into, but not the same numbers as one of those most competitive tier schools. Sometimes those programs are newer, sometimes they're still emerging, or they may just be smaller in scope and ambition that we've talked about with a lot of schools in the pod, right? They may just not be looking to recruit students nationally or to recruit as many students, right? But a lot of these programs will have really strong representation on Broadway, especially when it comes to Broadway ensembles, but also with leading roles in many cases, right? They're just numerically a lot more of these schools out there than the most competitive tier. So there's a higher tonnage of students who've gone.

[56:20] Curtis Holland: You know, I think that the biggest thing that I learned was just to be true to myself. I think that when I started in this business, I was so focused on what everyone else was doing and how I could fit into that mold. But as I grew and learned more about myself and my artistry, I realized that the best thing I could do was to just be me.

[56:45] Curtis Holland: And I think that’s what really sets you apart in this industry. There are so many talented people, but what makes you unique is your own perspective and your own experiences. So, I really try to embrace that and bring that to my work, whether it’s in auditions or performances.

[57:10] Curtis Holland: I also think that having a positive outlook on the industry has been an asset for me. There are a lot of challenges and rejections, but I try to focus on the opportunities and the growth that comes from those experiences. It’s all part of the journey, and I think maintaining that perspective has helped me stay grounded.

[57:30] Curtis Holland: Performing in a new musical is such an exciting experience. There’s something so special about being part of the creation process, working with the writers and the creative team to bring a new story to life. It’s a different kind of energy compared to performing in a well-known show, and I love the challenge that comes with it.

[57:50] Curtis Holland: And speaking of challenges, I think it’s important to do the work behind the scenes. Whether it’s rehearsing, taking classes, or just honing your craft, putting in the effort is crucial. It’s what allows you to really shine when it’s time to perform. You have to do the work so that when you get on stage, you can just twirl and enjoy the moment.

[58:10] Curtis Holland: I remember when I first started auditioning for shows, I was so nervous. But over time, I learned that if I put in the work and prepared thoroughly, I could walk into the audition room with confidence. It’s all about preparation and trusting yourself.

[58:30] Curtis Holland: I think that’s a lesson that applies to so many aspects of life, not just in the arts. Whether you’re preparing for a big presentation at work or a performance on stage, the more you prepare, the more confident you’ll feel.

[58:50] Curtis Holland: And I think that confidence translates to the audience as well. When you’re up there and you’re truly in the moment, they can feel that energy. It’s a beautiful exchange between performer and audience, and I think that’s what makes live theater so magical.

[59:10] Curtis Holland: I also want to emphasize the importance of community in this industry. Having a support system of fellow artists, mentors, and friends can make all the difference. It’s a tough business, and having people who understand what you’re going through can be incredibly helpful.

[59:30] Curtis Holland: I’ve been fortunate to have some amazing mentors along the way who have guided me and offered their wisdom. I think it’s important to seek out those relationships and to be open to learning from others.

[59:50] Curtis Holland: And as I continue on my journey, I hope to be that mentor for others as well. I want to give back and help the next generation of artists find their voice and navigate this industry.

[1:00:10] Curtis Holland: Ultimately, it’s about being true to yourself and finding your own path. There’s no one right way to succeed in this business, and I think that’s what makes it so exciting.

[1:00:30] Curtis Holland: So, whether you’re just starting out or you’ve been in the game for a while, remember to embrace who you are and trust your instincts. That’s the key to finding your place in this world.

[1:00:50] Curtis Holland: And I’m really excited to see where this journey takes me next. I’m always looking for new opportunities and ways to grow as an artist, and I can’t wait to share that with everyone.

[1:01:10] Curtis Holland: Thank you for having me on the podcast today. It’s been a pleasure to share my experiences and insights, and I hope that it resonates with others who are on their own journeys in the arts.

[1:01:30] Curtis Holland: If anyone has questions or wants to connect, I’m always open to that. I think it’s important to keep the conversation going and support each other in this industry.

[1:01:50] Curtis Holland: So, thank you again, and I look forward to what’s next!

[1:02:10] Curtis Holland: Remember, stay true to yourself and keep pushing forward. That’s what it’s all about.

[1:02:30] Curtis Holland: I appreciate the opportunity to share my story, and I hope it inspires others to embrace their own unique journeys.

[1:02:50] Curtis Holland: Let’s keep the dialogue open and continue to uplift each other in this beautiful world of theater.

[1:03:10] Curtis Holland: Thank you!

[1:03:30] Curtis Holland: I’m excited to see what the future holds for all of us in this industry.

[1:03:50] Curtis Holland: Let’s keep creating and sharing our stories!

[1:04:10] Curtis Holland: Until next time, take care and keep shining!

[1:04:30] Curtis Holland: I’m looking forward to connecting with everyone again soon.

[1:04:50] Curtis Holland: Thank you for listening!

[1:05:10] Curtis Holland: Bye for now!

[1:05:30] Curtis Holland: Take care!

[1:05:50] Curtis Holland: See you soon!

[1:06:10] Curtis Holland: Bye!

[1:06:30] Curtis Holland: Thank you!

[1:06:50] Curtis Holland: Bye!

[1:07:10] Curtis Holland: Thank you!

[1:07:30] Curtis Holland: Bye!

[1:07:50] Curtis Holland: Thank you!

[1:08:10] Curtis Holland: Bye!

[1:08:30] Curtis Holland: Thank you!

[1:08:50] Curtis Holland: Bye!

[1:09:10] Curtis Holland: Thank you!

[1:09:30] Curtis Holland: Bye!

[1:09:50] Curtis Holland: Thank you!

[1:10:10] Curtis Holland: Bye!