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[0:00] Chris Lanceley: Hello and welcome to Mischief Makers podcast. I am your host, Chris Lanceley, seven and a half year veteran of The Play That Goes Wrong here in New York City. And on this season of the podcast, we are celebrating the nine and a half ongoing plus years of The Play That Goes Wrong in New York City. My two guests today are Lilian Sun and Austin Gray, who were the original head props and head carpenter for the Off-Broadway production. Hello. Hello. Hello. So today, we're going to be talking about all things behind the flats behind the stage. And yeah, hope you enjoy. The Play That Goes Wrong is the award-winning hilarious comedy. Huffington Post calls it tons of fun for all ages. The funniest play Broadway has ever seen.

It's a historical, I mean, hysterical hybrid of Monty Python and Sherlock Holmes, where everything that can go wrong does. According to Forbes magazine, you'll never have a better time in a theater. The Play That Goes Wrong is right for the whole family. Get tickets at broadwaygoeswrong.com.

[1:29] Chris Lanceley: So how did you guys get involved with The Play That Goes Wrong? What was your, did someone call you? Because I know like I audition and then, you know, I fail usually. Not with this one, but does someone call you and say, "Hey, we need a head carpenter. Hey, we need someone to look after props"?

[1:36] Lilian Sun: For me on this one, I applied online. There was a listing on playbill.com and I went, I had, I think just, I was just about to close the show and I was like, well, I need to be employed. Well, this looks like a good gig as any other. So I applied, did an interview, I think on like the first day of load in. So I got to see the stage completely bare, which I haven't seen since then. And yeah, then the rest is history. Here we are.

[2:09] Austin Gray: Yeah. Amazing. I was after tech, they had a loading carpenter during tech. And then after tech, I got asked to come in and take over for the show after they were going to move on.

[2:22] Chris Lanceley: Who were going to move on? The previous head carpenter?

[2:28] Austin Gray: The previous head, like the previous person that was in the automation role. So they came in and once they left, I took over.

[2:32] Chris Lanceley: Right. That's always confusing. So you're the head carpenter?

[2:38] Austin Gray: I wasn't the head carpenter when I started. There were two carpenters. There's a deck one and a deck two. The deck one was the head carpenter. He was running pyro. And then he left about maybe six months to eight months.

[2:49] Chris Lanceley: Was that Danny?

[2:57] Austin Gray: Yeah. A couple months in. He left in and then when he left, I had seniority for that. So I just took over the role.

[3:01] Chris Lanceley: Right. So I'm still confused, like head carpenter. I never saw you do any carpentry.

[3:07] Austin Gray: It was all behind the scenes. Oh, I missed all of that. It was all off hours. You know those hours when you don't work hard enough?

[3:13] Lilian Sun: Yes. When I'm not there. That's Wednesdays, right? Wednesday afternoons. All right. Fair enough.

[3:18] Austin Gray: Yeah. And then the automation, that's the second part of the role.

[3:22] Lilian Sun: Yeah. That was like, that was, so the one, the first deck was pyro. The second deck was automation.

[3:27] Austin Gray: Okay. And that includes things like the platform, if we're allowed to talk about that.

[3:32] Lilian Sun: I think we are. The drops.

[3:38] Austin Gray: The drops. Yeah. Of the kerning rails, planks, things like that. Yeah. All the really dangerous stuff.

[3:44] Lilian Sun: Yeah. The electromagnets.

[3:50] Austin Gray: I swear I've been told at some point not to talk about that too. I don't know. No one ever made a sign of anything.

[3:56] Lilian Sun: Yeah. That's fair enough. Yeah. And this podcast is, you know, The Mischief Podcast.

[4:01] Austin Gray: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's up to them. Yeah. They can tell me afterwards. Brilliant.

[4:07] Chris Lanceley: Did you know what you were getting yourself into?

[4:09] Lilian Sun: No.

[4:15] Chris Lanceley: No. And for those who can't tell, Lilian just lent into the microphone to say that. It was a really tough tech process because no one, so it was the first time I'd ever been a part of rehearsal. So like my first day was the actors' first day and we were all on set, which we were very lucky to. And no one who was a technician or stage management backstage knew how the show went. None of us had seen the show. So there was a lot of us going through old paperwork from Broadway going, it says the window falls, but how does that happen? And just wandering around while the actors are like trying to learn the book of the show. And so we were trying to learn the tech of the show. And then it was very, previews was fun in terms of like, there was just a lot of things. We learned for the first time ever. And there was no one to tell us, well, this is how we did it before to fix it.

[5:00] Austin Gray: That's great. I remember you telling me a story of you guys just walking around the back of the set being like, oh, there's this piece of wood that's attached to a string. Oh, that's what this is for. I wonder what it does. I wonder what goes on it. Oh, that's for the window.

[5:12] Lilian Sun: Yeah. To keep the window. We know that now.

[5:14] Austin Gray: Oh yeah. There's the nap for when Max gets his head hit on the window. There's a piece of wood with a string tied around it on a hinge backstage that makes the sound of his head hitting the windowsill. But we didn't know what that was. So for the first couple weeks of shows, our Sandra at the time, Ashley Reyes, army crawled behind the upper platform window and used a different napper to hit the wall there because we had literally no idea what that piece of wood was. And we were like, well, that can make a sound. And then like at a rehearsal, Mark Evans was like, what's that? He was in the show.

[5:58] Lilian Sun: Yeah. Mark Evans goes, what's that? And we like untie it and we go, oh.

[6:02] Austin Gray: It's a little slapstick.

[6:04] Lilian Sun: It's quite big actually. Although Sandra still has to army crawl into that position.

[6:09] Austin Gray: She's got to army crawl a different way and doesn't have to get handed a piece of wood. I'm stood right by the window in that scene. It's when, it's a spoiler. When Trevor plays his Duran Duran for the first time and I'm stood there as Chris being very annoyed and out of the corner of my eye every single night, I see Sandra crawling to that slapstick through the curtain.

[6:29] Lilian Sun: Yeah. That's great.

[6:36] Austin Gray: Do you have a clue what kind of dangerous scenario you were walking into?

[6:42] Lilian Sun: They just told me that, hey, this show is a little crazy. There's a bunch of things.

[6:43] Austin Gray: A little crazy.

[6:44] Lilian Sun: A bunch of things that they told me that everything falls down and stuff like that. But then I didn't, when I came and saw the show before I ended up taking over, I was like, oh, there's a lot more than what they originally told me.

[6:57] Austin Gray: Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure. I remember when we went out on tour, the stage manager, Michael Danik, he took the job because he was like, oh, I'll play and there's only eight people in the cast. Amazing. I'll do that.

[7:10] Chris Lanceley: Yeah. This is easier than doing a, calling a musical on tour.

[7:18] Austin Gray: No, he regretted that decision. He loved it. Had a great time, but yeah, regretted that. I think you touched on how kind of janky the set looks like from the back for a Tony winning set. In fact, did the fact that the set had won a Tony, were you aware of that? Did that add pressure to what you were doing at the time?

[7:37] Lilian Sun: I mean, I knew it had won a Tony, but that doesn't mean much in my world.

[7:44] Austin Gray: That's fair. Yeah.

[7:45] Lilian Sun: I think what the crazy part for us were for, I think for both of us was as like, it came from Broadway or it came from, was it in, it wasn't the London one, was it?

[7:53] Austin Gray: It was built in the UK.

[7:55] Lilian Sun: Yeah. It was definitely built in the UK and sent to Broadway.

[7:58] Austin Gray: And then once it closed on Broadway, a couple of days later, it was sent down to-

[8:02] Lilian Sun: Like a week later.

[8:03] Austin Gray: To New World.

[8:04] Chris Lanceley: Right.

[8:04] Austin Gray: And installed, I think they shifted a couple of walls.

[8:08] Lilian Sun: Yeah.

[8:08] Austin Gray: But the hardest part for us, I think is the fact that it's metric.

[8:11] Lilian Sun: Yeah. Everything on the set was metric. All the automation was not like common US automation.

[8:17] Austin Gray: Which I was used to. Even the chandelier was wired for British power and then Broadway just kept it that way.

[8:27] Lilian Sun: So then when it came to Off-Broadway, our electricians went, we can't do this.

[8:32] Austin Gray: So they rewired it all.

[8:34] Lilian Sun: That sounds like a skill issue to me.

[8:38] Austin Gray: I guess Broadway was like, we can make that work. And they did.

[8:42] Lilian Sun: So the set came with an entirely sensible and usable measurement system.

[8:46] Austin Gray: And then you had to turn it to Imperial.

[8:49] Lilian Sun: Yeah. Well, now the set is this horrible amalgamation of both.

[8:52] Austin Gray: Yeah.

[8:54] Lilian Sun: Because it's been many years.

[8:55] Austin Gray: It's a horrible, now it's kind of, it's the ship of Theseus. It's like, you know, what part of the set is, is it still the Tony winning set if everything has been replaced and changed and broken at some point?

[9:07] Lilian Sun: I can't think of any part. I mean, I guess the original framework, the metal framework is still the same.

[9:11] Austin Gray: The metal framework is still the same. Most of the walls are still the same. We've only replaced one or two of them.

[9:20] Lilian Sun: I punched through the wall yesterday.

[9:23] Austin Gray: What wall?

[9:24] Lilian Sun: The wall above the fireplace.

[9:27] Austin Gray: I guess for months, maybe years, going from the fourth loop at the end of Act I into the fifth loop at the end of Act I, you know, we're suspended there waiting for, see if Dennis gets his line right. And when he inevitably doesn't, I have been turning and hitting the wall. And it turns out through the months and years, I have weakened that enough to the point where I just punched through it yesterday.

[9:51] Austin Gray: Yeah, that's kind of, I'm given that.

[9:53] Lilian Sun: I don't have to deal with that.

[9:54] Austin Gray: Yeah, yeah. I don't think anyone has thus far. I think it's fine.

[9:58] Lilian Sun: It's just a little dented.

[10:00] Austin Gray: The wallpaper is still there covering it from the outside.

[10:03] Lilian Sun: So it's fine. Everyone's going to know now.

[10:04] Austin Gray: It's kind of like, I'm kind of proud of it.

[10:05] Lilian Sun: Now people are going to look for it.

[10:06] Austin Gray: Oh, everyone's going to know.

[10:07] Lilian Sun: Yeah, everyone's going to look for that little dip. Come see The Play That Goes Wrong to look for the dent that, that Chris punched into the wall, guys.

[10:14] Austin Gray: Yeah, yeah. A little redesign. That's what I'm calling it.

[10:17] Chris Lanceley: I was, it was actually the next thing on my list to chat with you guys about was the, the fact that it was created in the U.S. and utilized here. I was going to ask you how much of that original stuff is still there and what has changed. I kind of know how much has changed, but are there any ongoing issues that you're aware of? I know neither of you have worked on the show for a few years now in a full-time capacity.

[10:39] Lilian Sun: But do you know of any like ongoing issues with that kind of conversion?

[10:44] Austin Gray: Honestly, I think a lot of that got ironed out.

[10:46] Lilian Sun: Yeah.

[10:47] Austin Gray: While it, during our tenure there, like things like the automation ended up getting replaced to be an American system that is much more easily accessible here.

[10:55] Lilian Sun: Right.

[10:58] Austin Gray: Yeah. Including stuff like, like sourcing the voice pipes was, the source was getting it sent from the UK for a couple of years. And then finally we were like, this is ridiculous.

[11:07] Lilian Sun: Yeah.

[11:10] Austin Gray: Yeah. The door handles, they kept breaking and then they were like.

[11:12] Lilian Sun: The specific Gregorian door handle.

[11:16] Austin Gray: And we, I would have to email the set designer, Nigel Hook, and he would go to his local like grocery that had that specific door handle.

[11:22] Lilian Sun: His grocery store.

[11:23] Austin Gray: Yeah. His like local grocery slash hardware. And he.

[11:26] Lilian Sun: That's a great combo.

[11:28] Austin Gray: And he would, and half the time it would be his partner sending it to me.

[11:31] Lilian Sun: Right.

[11:32] Austin Gray: They would mail it to me. So there'd be like a month long process of getting this door handle. Then finally we were like, enough.

[11:39] Lilian Sun: Yeah.

[11:41] Austin Gray: Get them here.

[11:42] Lilian Sun: I know that you worked on the, you created and built a lot of the voice pipes and that sort of thing, that kind of a molding setup backstage.

[11:51] Austin Gray: Well really Kate Mulhauser, who was my great assistant props at the time, she is the one who molded, I essentially commissioned her. I was like you have these skills, I know you do, please let's make this so we just make it in house. Or now Kate makes them out of house. She is also no longer at The Play That Goes Wrong.

[12:10] Lilian Sun: In the outhouse.

[12:11] Austin Gray: They hire her now to make the voice pipes.

[12:13] Lilian Sun: In the outhouse, it's really terrible work conditions.

[12:15] Austin Gray: In the outhouse, that is her apartment.

[12:17] Lilian Sun: She used to make them up in that scary hallway.

[12:19] Austin Gray: Oh yeah, there's like that horrible staircase.

[12:22] Lilian Sun: That was Kate's little chemistry lab.

[12:25] Austin Gray: The emergency exit from the theater.

[12:26] Lilian Sun: Sure, one of them.

[12:28] Austin Gray: One of them, yeah. The one that we use. We've only I think used it two or three times.

[12:34] Lilian Sun: It's fine, we never had to go.

[12:36] Austin Gray: We had a manhole cover explosion or something in week one.

[12:43] Lilian Sun: We had another one recently where some door was left open somewhere and the fire alarm was set off. Everyone was safe.

[12:50] Austin Gray: There was one time a show in the building was letting off their, they were testing their pyro in an emergency hallway in the loading dock and that set off.

[13:00] Lilian Sun: Name and shame?

[13:02] Austin Gray: It was the Rock of Ages.

[13:03] Lilian Sun: That's, yeah, good.

[13:06] Austin Gray: I'm glad we did that.

[13:09] Lilian Sun: So one thing about the show and its longevity I think that has really contributed is the regional productions of the show that are going up, the high school productions of the show that are going up. I kind of envision this episode a little bit as advice almost. Something that maybe people could listen to and think, how on earth are we going to put this show up? Um, do you have any advice for people who are doing this show?

[13:37] Chris Lanceley: A glance between Austin and Lillian.

[13:40] Lilian Sun: There is a fun little Facebook group.

[13:42] Chris Lanceley: I was going to ask you about that.

[13:44] Lilian Sun: Yeah, I can't, what is it?

[13:45] Austin Gray: Do you remember?

[13:45] Lilian Sun: Oh, the Play That Goes Wrong production advice, I think.

[13:48] Austin Gray: Yeah, a lot of regional and high school productions are on it and a lot of them sell their sets.

[13:54] Lilian Sun: That's advice.

[13:56] Austin Gray: Yeah. I'm a big fan of reuse, reduce, recycle. Buy other sets. But honestly, so long as you are always thinking of the safety of your actors first, no matter what, the jokes will come. The show is funny on its own regardless. So long as your actors are safe, you can do what you want.

[14:17] Lilian Sun: Yeah. There's like so many, I think, yeah, there's so many different ways of making like the platform fall. And I've seen all these different ways on that Facebook group. So it's like counterweight systems. Some people do like hook and lock systems. Some people pull it down. Some people just go, good luck. But honestly, so again, safety of your actors. Because like everybody also has different resources, right? So it's like, yeah, you can do what you can with your company. As long as your actor on that platform or whatever the gag is, is going to be safe doing it.

[14:55] Austin Gray: Yeah. That's, I mean, that is the most important thing. Is that, was that like top of your minds when you were working at the show?

[15:03] Lilian Sun: Yeah, it was crazy because they were like, well, you drop, we drop all these walls and you drop an 80-pound chandelier from the grid over an actor who at the time was you when I first did it. And it was very much like, it goes against every instinct you have as a technician to drop things while actors on stage like that. Huge set pieces.

[15:26] Austin Gray: Right. Every part of you is going, don't do this. This is bad. And it takes a long time to train yourself out of that for it to run the show properly. When like we used to talk about all the time is how like, even though the crew is not part of like, like we're still part of the set. It's part of the cast.

[15:42] Lilian Sun: Yeah. Because of how much moving parts there are and everything and like dropping stuff like that and like making sure that you guys are safe no matter what. I mean, how many times have we changed like to have like random shows where, oh, we don't have this thing because we can't do this or the door fell off the hinge. So we have to then go through and do all these things. Like it was always the safety was always the number one concern for us. Especially because the show, it keeps you on your toes. There's always something new that happens that is like something you've never experienced before. And all of a sudden you have to think of a different contingency for that very specific happenstance that may or may not happen again. It might just happen a bunch in one week and never happen again.

[16:24] Austin Gray: Right. Yeah. Over my seven and a half years with the show, I've seen a lot of first times and then never again or 10 times in a week and then never again.

[16:31] Lilian Sun: Was it you or Matt Harrington that like hit his head that way?

[16:35] Austin Gray: That was Matt.

[16:36] Lilian Sun: That was Matt. Like that one time and then just sat up there while it was like.

[16:39] Austin Gray: Yeah. This is when Chris Bean gets stuck halfway up in the, in the lift elevator. And it evolved some acrobatics from the Bean actor to kind of jump up on the platform quickly. Matt, who was my predecessor in the role of Bean, managed to find like a single slightly.

[16:58] Lilian Sun: Single bolt.

[17:00] Austin Gray: Elevated bolt. Two years of him doing the show.

[17:01] Lilian Sun: Yeah.

[17:03] Austin Gray: And I get that. I did. The other day I was running into the elevator and took a step slightly funny and bounced off the side, caught my head off something. Thankfully it didn't, I didn't get it bad enough, but I had no idea that was there at head height, whatever it was that I hit.

[17:19] Lilian Sun: Yeah. There's always a nice surprise within that set. And we're always finding them years down the line. I was talking with the stage managers about our contingency list that is going on 15 plus pages now. It's crazy. But that's so, so important about the show is we all know what to do if things aren't going wrong.

[17:39] Austin Gray: Right. Yeah. Things on stage aren't behaving the way we need them to. And that I feel is when the crew and the cast and stage management are in lockstep. I mean, we always are, but we're really dialed in when that kind of thing happens. It never feels as like, oh, we all know what we're doing as much as when like something goes wrong and we are. Yeah. We are not holding the show. We are just pivoting to one of our contingencies and all of a sudden we're all like locked in together.

[18:09] Lilian Sun: Right. That's one of the gifts with this show. I feel like you can, you do have the capacity to cover for mistakes because of the nature of the show. But that's so much.

[18:21] Austin Gray: Why are you laughing?

[18:22] Lilian Sun: How many times, like though, just like going out with the ladder.

[18:25] Austin Gray: Oh, yeah. Like you're bringing that up. I was going to, I was maybe wondering if I was going to avoid that on your birthday. Walk us through your birthday, however many years ago when we had to hold the show for a curtain not falling. Just in detail.

[18:41] Austin Gray: Yeah. Oh, we don't need to recount it.

[18:43] Lilian Sun: Oh yeah. Please.

[18:44] Austin Gray: So the one, sometimes the curtains wouldn't fall and I walked out on stage and to do it and it happened to be my birthday. And we were holding the show. The whole show holds. When the curtain doesn't fall and the automation has moved, it's usually because the, it is stuck on the wall, but it means it's loose above head height so it could fall at any moment. And it is a metal piece.

[19:05] Lilian Sun: Yeah.

[19:06] Austin Gray: It's a heavy metal piece of, to make it so it falls down. So I brought out a ladder and then was it, again, was it Harrington?

[19:15] Lilian Sun: It was Harrington.

[19:17] Austin Gray: And this is top of act two. So Chris Bean's on stage. Annie's on stage. Robert's on stage. Dennis is on stage. So they all ended up singing happy birthday to me while he's on the top of a 15-foot ladder. While I'm actively working, trying to get down.

[19:28] Lilian Sun: Yeah. How was your belt that day?

[19:30] Austin Gray: It was, and my nail pop.

[19:31] Lilian Sun: What belt?

[19:32] Austin Gray: What belt?

[19:33] Lilian Sun: Yeah.

[19:34] Austin Gray: I didn't have a belt on and I had an air pod in my ear.

[19:36] Lilian Sun: Yeah.

[19:37] Austin Gray: Yep.

[19:38] Lilian Sun: Why am I asking about the belt?

[19:40] Austin Gray: Because my, my, my pants may have slid down a little bit.

[19:45] Lilian Sun: We call that builder's bum in the UK.

[19:47] Austin Gray: Yeah. Builder's bum.

[19:47] Lilian Sun: Is that what it's called here?

[19:49] Austin Gray: I have what?

[19:49] Lilian Sun: Plumber's crack here?

[19:50] Austin Gray: Plumber's crack.

[19:51] Lilian Sun: Yeah. There it is.

[19:54] Chris Lanceley: This feels like the perfect time to segue into the commercial break. Also, I'm looking at the clock and it says 20 minutes. So that's, that's the other reason. But also I've been going into the break with a mischievous question.

[20:08] Lilian Sun: Yes.

[20:09] Chris Lanceley: This is the first one that I feel is kind of truly mischievous. So good luck. If you could choose a single actor that you have worked with on The Play That Goes Wrong, and the new rule for them is that they have to repair any damage they do to the set or a prop themselves. Which actor do you force to do that? In fact, let's do a top three. Top three between the two.

[20:36] Lilian Sun: Top three between the two of you. Which three actors do you want to force to repair their own damages and why?

[20:47] Austin Gray: I think Harrington has to be up there.

[20:48] Lilian Sun: Harrington who played Christine.

[20:51] Austin Gray: Yeah. He would break things a lot.

[20:54] Lilian Sun: I feel Jesse Aronson as Max was quite forceful and would throw his body quite a bit. I remember that.

[21:02] Austin Gray: Yeah. Michael Thatcher who played Robert. Broke everything on the platform.

[21:05] Lilian Sun: He played Robert for a couple of weeks and everything was broken.

[21:11] Austin Gray: He did. He was so strong and he would break, he broke multiple chairs.

[21:16] Lilian Sun: Definitely broke the desk once.

[21:18] Austin Gray: Yeah. Actually Michael Thatcher number one.

[21:20] Lilian Sun: Michael Thatcher number one.

[21:21] Austin Gray: He was understudy for Robert on the first national tour. On the second national tour he played the role of Robert along with me as Christine. And then he stepped in for two weeks to cover when we needed someone to cover the role. Every day.

[21:35] Lilian Sun: And broke everything.

[21:36] Austin Gray: Yeah. And in your world now would have repaired everything afterwards probably quite badly actually. So he's number one.

[21:42] Lilian Sun: Yeah. Who's number two?

[21:45] Austin Gray: Matt Harrington.

[21:47] Lilian Sun: What did he break?

[21:48] Austin Gray: I feel like the beans don't normally break things.

[21:51] Lilian Sun: Yeah. Beans normally break themselves.

[21:54] Austin Gray: I did punch a hole through the wall. But yeah. Got a couple.

[22:00] Lilian Sun: Magnifying glass.

[22:00] Austin Gray: He would break the magnifying glass sometimes.

[22:02] Lilian Sun: That's true. I'm trying to think of, got a couple door kicks, door breaks.

[22:08] Austin Gray: Oh yeah. Jonathan's kicking panels out the door.

[22:10] Lilian Sun: Clyde.

[22:11] Austin Gray: Clyde. Clyde number one. He was the first one to ever do it and it only, I think it's only happened one other time. And he kicked, he kicked his foot clean through the door.

[22:18] Lilian Sun: Yeah.

[22:19] Austin Gray: Like he kicked a whole panel out of the door. It happened recently. Chris French has done it too. And so recently Jake, who was in, it's kind of a vacation swing. His first performance, he kicked through, kicked a panel out of the door.

[22:31] Lilian Sun: Yeah.

[22:32] Austin Gray: Yeah. He definitely did. We can't put Jake on there because you guys never worked with him.

[22:37] Lilian Sun: I thought Brent would be on there, who is the full-time Robert off Broadway. Shockingly, Brent doesn't break furniture.

[22:40] Austin Gray: He's, he's, yeah. I think he's, he has been doing the show so long and doing those actions for long. He has honed his body to perfectly move those items in a way that doesn't do anything to them.

[22:54] Lilian Sun: I've seen him take some wheels off the globe.

[22:56] Austin Gray: Well, that, that might be the fault of the globe though.

[22:59] Lilian Sun: Yeah. You know what's funny? I, I always mentioned this. I had, uh, that exact globe in my apartment for years and it wasn't even mine. It was, um, my wife's, um, it was in her old apartment and, uh, it was just sitting there in our, in our, in our living room for years. And it was weird going from the set where that exact same globe is there and going home for it. It is the current globe now in The Play That Goes Wrong. I donated it. I didn't want it.

[23:25] Lilian Sun: And I donated it, and now it's on the set.

[23:28] Austin Gray: Amazing. Wow. Keeping it in the family.

[23:31] Lilian Sun: Keeping it in the family.

[23:45] Chris Lanceley: Alright, welcome back. We're still here with Austin Gray and Lilian Sun, and we're talking about The Play That Goes Wrong from a behind-the-stage perspective. I've asked before about regional productions. I'm curious if they ever reach out to you directly with questions, or if you've ever had a direct.

[24:02] Austin Gray: You've gotten reached out to.

[24:03] Lilian Sun: So my college that I went to, Ryder University, actually reached out to me when they did it. But my technical director is fantastic, but he's like, just a couple questions about like some things, and that was like, it was like answering things about the platform and stuff.

[24:20] Austin Gray: Right, right.

[24:21] Lilian Sun: Yeah, it was like some small stuff. And then I've answered a couple questions on the Facebook page of people asking things, where it's like, what do you do for this or whatever.

[24:30] Chris Lanceley: So I was going to ask if you contribute to that Facebook group.

[24:35] Austin Gray: I haven't in years now, but when I was actively working on it, and people again have reached out to me like for some small questions.

[24:43] Chris Lanceley: Have you ever had, this is the next question, have you ever had a situation where you've had to have a last-minute, crazy, speedy backstage fix to a prop or a set piece right before we go on? Or is that kind of just a situation where we would stop for safety?

[24:56] Austin Gray: I mean, I got to a point during intermission where I could swap a door out in 10 minutes. Like we would swap an entire door or swap an entire door handle out in like in 10 minutes of the intermission. We also were like pretty, I mean, when I was there, we were pretty well stocked on backup. So if someone came off and they were like, this is broken, I'd be like, oh, grab the backup. Let's just throw that on. We'll live. Or just put in a new one because we have it ready.

[25:24] Chris Lanceley: How many backups do you have on hand?

[25:26] Austin Gray: I tried to at least have one of, not of like big furniture pieces, but we had a couple extra chairs. We had at least something I could grab mostly during the show that we could just go run and grab. And some of it was under the deck though, but you know, stored under the deck.

[25:44] Lilian Sun: Oh, there was one time, Austin, where you didn't set the plank.

[25:49] Austin Gray: I did. And then we had to crawl under and me and Aaron Emmett, who was the pyro, had to crawl under the deck and set it by hand.

[25:58] Lilian Sun: During Act One?

[25:59] Austin Gray: During Act One.

[26:01] Lilian Sun: While the actors were on stage.

[26:03] Austin Gray: No one knew it was happening, except we did have a giant hole in the hallway that I was just standing over so no actors would just like walk through and step into it.

[26:12] Lilian Sun: Although that would have been hilarious.

[26:13] Austin Gray: No.

[26:14] Lilian Sun: No, probably not. Okay, fine. Depends who it was.

[26:16] Austin Gray: But then they army crawled down there and sort of just picked up the weight and hooked it all up on their backs.

[26:21] Chris Lanceley: How long before it actually happened?

[26:23] Austin Gray: I bet it was just like Mission Impossible. There's a video that I could put Mission Impossible music to that was very funny.

[26:28] Lilian Sun: I'd like to see that.

[26:29] Austin Gray: I'll search it. We realized it because I had a camera on my desk that had it. I got a picture of it because sometimes it would malfunction and we wanted to always be able to see it malfunction so we could know if it was an operator error or a mechanical error. And I looked at it and I was like, that's not set.

[26:51] Lilian Sun: Because it's partly both of us that have to make sure it's done. And we both turned and looked at each other and were like, I guess we can crawl under and do it. So we ended up crawling under. It's like a 50-pound weight and I physically lifted it up.

[27:08] Austin Gray: On your back.

[27:09] Lilian Sun: On my back.

[27:10] Austin Gray: You're just bragging.

[27:11] Lilian Sun: And Aaron hooked it in.

[27:13] Austin Gray: Yeah.

[27:14] Lilian Sun: There were rumors that you lived under the deck.

[27:18] Austin Gray: Were they?

[27:20] Lilian Sun: There was a picture of me under the deck when we came back from COVID.

[27:23] Austin Gray: Because you've been staying there?

[27:25] Lilian Sun: Yeah, covered in sugar glass and fake blood and newspaper.

[27:30] Austin Gray: That's just how you live your life?

[27:33] Lilian Sun: There was one time we walled Aaron into the deck during a rehearsal because everyone was so panicked about getting back and doing the rehearsal. We kind of forgot he was under there.

[27:42] Austin Gray: So we closed the trap and put the planks back over it. And then Aaron just texts us going, hey, guys, I'm down here.

[27:50] Lilian Sun: This is the real-life example of Trevor being stuck in the car backstage.

[27:54] Austin Gray: And we were like, oh, can you stay down there until the next break? This is really going off the rails right now.

[28:03] Chris Lanceley: And that leads me into the next question I have written down, which I thought I was going to skip. But since we're in the place that we are, do you find Trevor insulting as a character?

[28:15] Lilian Sun: It's like a little cathartic because I wish I could be like that. Just not care.

[28:20] Austin Gray: Just that carefree.

[28:21] Lilian Sun: To go through life with so little cares in the world.

[28:24] Austin Gray: Just Duran Duran on the brain.

[28:26] Lilian Sun: Just Duran Duran on the brain.

[28:29] Austin Gray: Girls on film.

[28:31] Lilian Sun: Constantly.

[28:32] Austin Gray: He's booked.

[28:33] Lilian Sun: Yeah, he's booked and blessed.

[28:35] Austin Gray: Good old Trevor.

[28:36] Lilian Sun: Don't know for how long, though.

[28:39] Chris Lanceley: No, fair enough. How about you, Austin? Do you find him? Would you play him? Let's say there's a last-minute emergency. We don't have a Trevor actor. Would you go on?

[28:48] Austin Gray: I wouldn't put it past them to ask.

[28:51] Lilian Sun: Neither would I.

[28:52] Austin Gray: I guess that's the easiest one. And I could do the little dance.

[28:55] Chris Lanceley: So you were also crew head, Austin, right, when you were there?

[28:59] Austin Gray: Yes.

[29:00] Lilian Sun: Lillian's laughing.

[29:01] Chris Lanceley: So you were a bad crew head.

[29:03] Austin Gray: I was a good crew head.

[29:08] Lilian Sun: He was a good crew head.

[29:09] Austin Gray: I just did a lot of paperwork.

[29:12] Chris Lanceley: Okay, so you were crew head, Lillian. How was that?

[29:14] Lilian Sun: No, we kind of both took the mantle off. It was a lot to deal with.

[29:21] Austin Gray: That's a play-that-goes-wrong joke.

[29:23] Lilian Sun: Took the mantle off.

[29:24] Austin Gray: It does.

[29:27] Chris Lanceley: This is a very niche podcast. People are listening to this, they're rolling on the floor right now.

[29:32] Lilian Sun: Yeah, I'm sure they are.

[29:34] Chris Lanceley: Thanks, Austin. Yeah, I think, like, what was the question?

[29:39] Lilian Sun: You're a bad crew head.

[29:42] Chris Lanceley: Let me kind of recontextualize that. One thing I never—because, you know, I played Jonathan first, and then I played Chris Bean on the tour, and then I came back off Broadway and was Jonathan again because the pandemic intervened, and then I was Chris again within, like, a year, and then Robert for a little bit when Brent was playing Santa at Radio City. But one thing I had never—I didn't really think about. Like, Chris Bean, you know, maybe in a traditional show he'd be a lead role because he's got the most lines, he's on stage the most. But what I hadn't considered is that it's kind of a leadership role as well, right? Like, within the dressing room and there's an element of you do a lot and you kind of set the tone. Is that similar with a crew head situation? Did you feel, like, a leadership thing with that?

[30:27] Lilian Sun: Yeah, I mean, I think there's bits and pieces of that, like, where you're leading the crew, you're the one that stage management comes to. Like, both me and Lily were heads. So Lily was head props and I was head carpenter.

[30:43] Lilian Sun: Yeah.

[30:44] Austin Gray: So they would come to us, but it ended up being like—

[30:48] Chris Lanceley: Okay.

[30:48] Austin Gray: Get a little sentimental. Yeah, I guess, I don't know, I guess—

[30:53] Lilian Sun: And being head, being a leader, it does affect your crew because if there are any issues, if there are any things that come up, if you're not leading with assuredness or confidence, your crew then doesn't have any trust in you. And that sort of trickles all the way down. And then, like, even the actors can tell when, like, the crew isn't sure of themselves or aren't confident or anything like that. So leading does matter, but it's mostly just, like, being able to have your crew's back and being able to be a bridge between management and the crew or whoever, whatever is needed.

[31:31] Chris Lanceley: When you say management, is that, like, general management or stage management?

[31:34] Lilian Sun: Yeah, general management, stage management, any management.

[31:36] Austin Gray: Even production management.

[31:37] Lilian Sun: Yeah, literally production management. There's so much management above us.

[31:40] Austin Gray: Management, management, management, yeah.

[31:42] Lilian Sun: That there's just, like, always things. Because when Austin left the show before I did, so when he left, I did take over officially as crew head.

[31:52] Austin Gray: Because she was already doing all the paperwork.

[31:54] Lilian Sun: Yeah, because I was doing all the paperwork.

[31:56] Chris Lanceley: Not your forte, Austin.

[31:57] Austin Gray: It is now.

[31:58] Lilian Sun: Already.

[31:59] Austin Gray: It matters a lot that your crew trusts you as the head of the crew. Otherwise, there's a lot of infighting that could happen. And that really becomes important, like, super important when we have those contingency situations, I've noticed. Like, especially on the stage when things like that happen. I've had that happen when there have been people who have only been in the show for a few weeks or a few months. And they're like, oh, I've never been in this scenario. What am I going to do? And that's when, like, being a veteran, being someone who's been in the show for a while, that's where that helps. And it's great playing Chris Bean because you can just direct people around the stage and say, you know, you go there.

That's what needs to happen. Stop doing that. Whatever. But then that kind of leadership element of it comes into the fore. So I imagine that's the same with you guys as well and setting the tone. Especially because we have, like, in a different way than actors, we have lots of crew subs that come in. But unlike actors, they're not at the show full time. So things will change or contingencies will change and whatever. And so as long as you're the department head or you're the one that's there taking lead, you can be able to make sure everyone is doing what they need to be doing. Because there's a lot of, like, in our contingency paperwork where it's, like, deck one does this. Deck two does nothing.

And the does nothing is just as important because it means you're not getting in the way of whatever the fix is. And it's, like, if you know that, then you could be like, you stay there. Just stay there. I'll go deal with it. And then it's, you know, then it goes smoothly.

[33:34] Chris Lanceley: Great. Do you have any souvenirs from the show? Have you kept anything? Like, with a focus on things that you shouldn't have kept?

[33:41] Lilian Sun: I'd like to hear about that first.

[33:43] Austin Gray: I have a couple of door handles.

[33:44] Lilian Sun: You have a couple of door handles.

[33:45] Austin Gray: I have a Winston portrait.

[33:47] Lilian Sun: I also have a Winston portrait.

[33:49] Austin Gray: Is it hanging in your place?

[33:51] Lilian Sun: It used to be. I moved a year ago.

[33:53] Austin Gray: They're really big.

[33:54] Lilian Sun: Yeah, they are really big, aren't they?

[33:55] Austin Gray: They're really big.

[33:56] Lilian Sun: And not the most attractive things.

[33:58] Austin Gray: The frames are pretty battered.

[34:00] Lilian Sun: Yeah.

[34:01] Austin Gray: I just have the canvas.

[34:03] Lilian Sun: Oh, just the canvas.

[34:04] Austin Gray: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The wood gets pretty splintered and bad, and we don't keep those. As I've noticed, I pick that up every night off the deck.

[34:11] Lilian Sun: And you're like, hmm.

[34:12] Austin Gray: Yeah, splinters. We all get a lot of splinters from that set. We've sent away, this is like more sanctioned things we've given away, but like candlesticks, when they break and they are irreparable, those end up going to a home, whether it's with us or someone else.

[34:27] Lilian Sun: Yeah.

[34:28] Austin Gray: Or like Broadway Cares, often we'll auction those kind of things.

[34:32] Lilian Sun: But voice pipes go to Broadway Cares.

[34:34] Austin Gray: Yeah, they're easily broken.

[34:35] Lilian Sun: Yeah, they're very easily broken and easily made.

[34:38] Austin Gray: Yeah. Didn't we send stuff to the Broadway Museum too?

[34:41] Lilian Sun: We did send stuff to the Broadway Museum. There's a Winston portrait.

[34:44] Austin Gray: Oh, no, that was the Museum of the Dog. They have a Will and Testament.

[34:47] Lilian Sun: They have an old white spirit, actually one from the U.K. that just like traveled with the show.

[34:54] Austin Gray: Right.

[34:55] Lilian Sun: They have a, whoa, what's the word? A sugar glass vase that had broken in transit, so they put shards of it in the little display.

[35:04] Austin Gray: Oh, fun. I think they have a magnifying glass.

[35:07] Chris Lanceley: It's a cute little window. Yeah, well, that's great. That's nice to know. I'd actually not been to the museum. I should go see that. I have a few hours before the show after this, which is so relevant to our listeners. Good for you guys.

[35:25] Chris Lanceley: The other question I have is, did you ever go shopping for props like a legitimate store or is everything custom-made for the show?

[35:34] Lilian Sun: We have a lot of just common things—towels, Saran wrap for the blood packs, right? Stuff like that. We go shopping for. There was a while we were coke mopping the deck. Yeah, so we'd have to pick up coke on the way in.

[35:50] Austin Gray: Yeah, stuff like that.

[35:51] Lilian Sun: Why do we coke mop the deck?

[35:53] Austin Gray: Or did we? We don't do that anymore, but we don't do it anymore.

[35:57] Lilian Sun: What's the purpose of that?

[35:59] Austin Gray: It's a coke and water mixture, and it makes the deck a little bit sticky, which in our world of The Play That Goes Wrong is very useful. It's an old ballet trick that I was taught in college, like to add some—like it doesn't have to be coke. It could be something like just sugary.

[36:21] Lilian Sun: Other products were available.

[36:22] Austin Gray: Yeah, but I think there was a time we used like caro syrup and yeah, to just make it stickier, and then we ended up because with all the water on the stage.

[36:33] Lilian Sun: Yeah, it is a slippy situation.

[36:35] Austin Gray: Now we use a real paint additive, like real people.

[36:41] Lilian Sun: Yeah.

[36:41] Austin Gray: Oh great, like a real grown-up. We got there.

[36:49] Chris Lanceley: Yeah, I guess that's what that extra nine years brings us. The Play That Goes Wrong—did you find when you were at the show that it kind of all of this being aware of, you know, being responsible for people's safety and the fact that it is a show that does fall apart every night, and you have to put it back together again, and that being so against the instincts of what you are actually doing? Was there an emotional toll that went along with the show?

[37:12] Austin Gray: Yeah, every time I think that the fact that you have to build again, like Lilian said earlier, a lot of these things go against our instincts as technicians to fix a set that has to break. Sometimes you're like, how do I do this? Like how do I make it so it's functional enough to fall down and break but then also it is repaired enough to be able to be safe to use?

[37:38] Lilian Sun: I think sometimes it was like there were times where you all got a little frustrated at times, but sometimes you just got to do it and just make it so you can even do a temporary fix for the time being, make it safe enough to be able to be used so that you guys are safe, and then we would come in the next day early in the morning or whatever before the show to make a permanent fix for it.

[38:03] Austin Gray: Yeah.

[38:06] Lilian Sun: The emotional toll part of it was like if something did go wrong and like someone did get hurt, because that has happened. The first time I dropped the chandelier, I mean, you got bruised because it hit the deck and bounced back and hit you in the shins.

[38:19] Austin Gray: I think it was that I was pushing my foot so hard into the flat that was on the ground. I think the flat bounced up.

[38:28] Lilian Sun: The chandelier is not supposed to hit the deck straight away.

[38:32] Austin Gray: Sometimes, yeah, sometimes it happens. Sometimes it was just a little knot in the rope that had wound back on itself.

[38:41] Lilian Sun: Hurting someone, I'd be like, whatever, a technical issue's a technical issue, but then like the time the wall fell and it scraped the back of Bianca's legs or when you were on the truss and ripped your abdomen.

[39:06] Austin Gray: Yeah, it's like part—like technically it's not really my fault, but also I'm controlling the thing that you're on that swings, and you've hurt yourself, and that's like something you have to contend with to be like, well, I know it's technically not my fault, but I was still there.

[39:14] Lilian Sun: Yeah, and a part of it—

[39:14] Austin Gray: That's something I've become hyper aware of actually as time's gone by. When something does happen related to the set or a prop or something, to kind of check in and have a conversation with the person that's involved in that, because as you say, it's not their fault, but when it's a mystery, then I can imagine you'll feel responsible and feel guilty about it. So I think I've made it a point—I think others have as well—to kind of check in after things like that and make sure everyone's on the same page that it's just a freak accident or, you know, something like that. Nobody's to blame or being blamed.

[39:49] Lilian Sun: So I'm glad you mentioned that actually because it's good to know that that's actually worthwhile and something helpful to be doing because it also keeps—we talked about our relationship between crew and cast and everyone else. It also keeps that conversation open because I have noticed through the years that if that conversation, you know, where then it happens when new crew members come in, new cast members come in, and we're all not introduced to each other or whatever, and we take time to get to know each other, then that relationship—not having that relationship can harm the show or harm individuals kind of mentally or whatever.

[40:25] Austin Gray: Since as you talk about this, I'm like, ah, okay, maybe this is something we should all talk about, and then going forward, this should actually be something we should—

[40:33] Lilian Sun: Specifically, it's very—I think it's really important for everyone to be able to have that open dialogue.

[40:40] Chris Lanceley: Yeah, so intertwined, like right, you're again, you're writing a thing that I'm controlling.

[40:44] Austin Gray: Yeah, someone's on a platform that I would push a button for, so it's like if we're all on the same page together, the show goes beautifully.

[40:51] Chris Lanceley: And there has to be a level of trust that you guys have with us, right?

[40:59] Austin Gray: I think over the years, like as you built that friendship and trust up, we all coexisted together on that.

[41:05] Chris Lanceley: Mm-hmm, but equally through the years, as people move on and roles change and new people come in and cast shifts and changes, those relationships do the same thing.

[41:15] Austin Gray: So yeah, it's important that we all check in with each other.

[41:24] Chris Lanceley: My mind's going home. I should go to the theater tonight and insist we all have a meeting with each other.

[41:29] Lilian Sun: That's not it.

[41:29] Chris Lanceley: But it's just—it reiterated to me how important that is, and you know, I'm going to be telling my cast mates that tonight.

[41:36] Chris Lanceley: Now, I have one final question for each of you. What have you—since you have been out of the show full-time for a few years now, what did you learn on The Play That Goes Wrong that you've brought forward with you to, you know, your careers going forward? I mean, Lilian, you're working on Broadway pretty regularly now. Austin, you're—

[41:52] Austin Gray: You're fine.

[41:57] Chris Lanceley: So, what have you learned that you've brought forward?

[42:08] Lilian Sun: I really like grew into myself a lot during the show. I was 25 when I started working it, so I had done a couple of, you know, head carp gigs at the time, but this really was like, oh, I can do leadership and I can take charge of what I need to take charge of, and people do trust in that, in what I can do. So it's just made me a lot more confident going into all these new different theaters and different shows, and like I've worked with so many new people now that I'm not at The Play That Goes Wrong, but I can know that because I had that confidence that I didn't kill anyone at The Play That Goes Wrong in the five years I was there.

[42:45] Austin Gray: Yeah, you know that like I am a good technician, and I can take that with me and be confident and not like be bad at my job.

[42:55] Lilian Sun: Yeah, I relate to that. I think I was very green when I joined The Play That Goes Wrong—very nervous and anxious. And well, I think the same thing. It's just continuing being given the opportunity to succeed continuously is so important for a career and for confidence to bring forward into the next gig. I can do this, you know? That the first big Broadway audition I went on after having a few years in The Play That Goes Wrong, I do deserve to be here. I am good. I can hold it. You know, it just—it's great. That's one thing the show has really given me as well.

[43:28] Austin Gray: Yeah, that's—I think that it's sort of the same thing. It's like I think that it's—the thing that gave me was the confidence to be able to like to be a good carpenter, to fix things, and like it sort of changes the way you think about a lot of stuff because of the complexity of the breaks, the repairs. Like you start to think about different ways to fix things, which I then take into when I'm a partial carpenter or when I'm the head. Like I can use that information to sort of give it down to people to be able to, hey, let's do it this way and see what it does like this or see if it works like this way and sort of go from there.

[44:07] Austin Gray: I also—the thing that I like took from it is like that show was a group. Like all the fixes and everything were a group decision. It wasn't like it's just me going to fix this and I have to do it. It was a talk of like me, Lilian, Aaron, Kate—like we all had the conversations of like what's the best way to fix this and what's really the best way to do that, which I've taken with me now, and like it's always—I think it's always better to have someone else sort of not look over your work, but you always need that sort of support. Someone be like, well, if you do it this way, does it do this? And then if that makes sense?

[44:39] Chris Lanceley: Yeah.

[44:40] Austin Gray: And now you run a theater.

[44:47] Chris Lanceley: I said let me to one very—I'm going to ask very quickly. A lot of people say to me as I leave the role of Chris Bean, as you know, now that you've done The Play That Goes Wrong, you will never have a harder show to do. You'll never have a bigger lift to do in a two-hour stage play, whatever, than as Chris Bean. Do you feel the same? Was The Play That Goes Wrong excessively challenging from a crew perspective when the show ran?

[45:12] Austin Gray: Well, it was very easy to run.

[45:16] Chris Lanceley: Mm-hmm.

[45:16] Austin Gray: But the hard part always—we always say was keeping it up. And I think no other show I've done since has had to have as much upkeep on the regular day-to-day as that one, as The Play That Goes Wrong.

[45:25] Chris Lanceley: So yeah.

[45:25] Austin Gray: Yeah, I think that's it.

[45:32] Chris Lanceley: Well, Lilian, Austin, I miss you so much backstage at The Play That Goes Wrong. Over the years, we became very good friends. Lilian, you look after my cats.

[45:38] Lilian Sun: I do, and I yours.

[45:43] Chris Lanceley: And what, Austin, you took my cats?

[45:48] Austin Gray: When I went on tour.

[45:51] Chris Lanceley: You took Snowy and Stormy.

[45:54] Austin Gray: Yeah.

[45:56] Chris Lanceley: And we play video games regularly. You introduced me to Hades, which I will forever be grateful to you for. Lilian, when I had a surgery over the injury I got in the show, you got me that to help me through my recovery.

[46:06] Lilian Sun: Yeah, I miss you both. Thank you for doing this. I really appreciate it, and hopefully, we see each other more outside of—

[46:15] Chris Lanceley: I am free from the play and we'll have a life until I am called back to, you know, to play Bean, Robert, or whoever.

[46:23] Austin Gray: Yes, the person who never leaves the theater just always comes back to visit and is there up until half-hour just hanging out.

[46:30] Chris Lanceley: Yeah, I hope you will do that with me.

[46:33] Austin Gray: Well, yeah, again, thank you so much. It's been a very enlightening episode, very different from what we've had before, so I appreciate that.

[46:40] Chris Lanceley: And yeah, to those listening, I will see you on the next one.