This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Brian Sedita: Hey everyone, welcome to Page to Stage.

[0:03] Mary Dina: A conversation with theater makers.

[0:04] Brian Sedita: We're your hosts.

[0:05] Mary Dina: That's Brian.

[0:06] Brian Sedita: And that's Mary.

[0:07] Mary Dina: This episode is part of our series on Six the Musical.

[0:10] Brian Sedita: In this series, we uncover the process behind the musical through our central question.

[0:15] Mary Dina: What role does history play in the storytelling of Six, a show that uses the history mix as a device?

[0:21] Brian Sedita: We hope you enjoy this episode.

[0:26] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Hi, my name is Carrie-Anne Ingrouille, and I am a choreographer, and I am actually the choreographer of Six the Musical.

[0:33] Mary Dina: Amazing.

[0:34] Brian Sedita: Welcome.

[0:35] Mary Dina: Thank you! You were telling me before we got started that you're actually in a theater right now.

[0:39] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: So hopefully, fingers crossed, you don't get locked in.

[0:43] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: I hope not. I love the theater, but not so much to not go home to my dog.

[0:47] Brian Sedita: Right, of course, of course.

[0:49] Mary Dina: You are actually our fourth episode, Brian, correct me if I'm wrong, our fourth episode in our Six series, which I'm just loving.

[0:56] Brian Sedita: I'm loving chatting with all the creatives and one of our actors for the Broadway Company and just learning the process and the journey, especially as you as well as Toby and Lucy have been with the project from almost the very beginning.

[1:09] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Obviously, Toby and Lucy from the very beginning.

[1:11] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: But you joined with the festival with Fringe, right?

[1:16] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Yeah, I basically joined in sort of early 2018. So yeah, the start of Six expanding their creative team essentially, yeah.

[1:27] Mary Dina: I had read or I had listened to an interview you did, I guess during the pandemic, where you had said that you actually were asked to audition for the role as the choreographer.

[1:36] Brian Sedita: So was that a little strange for you?

[1:38] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: I mean, I can't imagine, I don't know if I've ever heard of that happening before.

[1:42] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Yeah, is that something out of the ordinary across the pond as well?

[1:46] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Yeah, a little bit. It's um, it I, you know when you think like your auditioning days are over, and I was like, oh no.

[1:54] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: But no, it was quite, do you know what, it was actually quite nice because the team had already put feelers out to who they wanted to come and audition and so yeah, I basically got asked to prepare some work and it happened to be to "Get Down," which was obviously Brittany, who we've already introduced her song, Anna of Cleves's song.

[1:54] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: And it was really nice because I actually got to go into the room and work with Lucy, and it was nice to see how we vibe. So not only for her to see the work that I do, but for us to see kind of how we would potentially work together.

[1:54] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: And I think they might have seen four or five people on that day, and I happened to be the first one because I had to go on to work afterwards, and yeah, it was just really lucky that they were like, she's the one that we want. So, and thus started the wonderful Six journey.

[2:49] Brian Sedita: Because up until that point, I think Lucy mentioned in our last episode that she was choreographing whatever was done beforehand.

[2:56] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Yeah, so Lucy is quite the dancer and she did a year's training at a dance college over here before she decided to change route and go off to university.

[2:56] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: And I believe they also potentially tried one other choreographer, but yeah, after a couple of tryouts and then these auditions, thankfully, they felt that I was the right person for the job.

[2:56] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: And yeah, everything kind of got a bit of a rehash. The story really got looked into, some more things got added to the music. It really felt like it was another rebirth of the musical.

[3:37] Brian Sedita: And what are you trying to convey in that initial audition process as a choreographer?

[3:43] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: How much of it is actually visual and how much of it is actually like discussing what you want to do with the project, right?

[3:49] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Right, right. It was actually really physical because they wanted me to prepare work.

[3:54] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: So with me not knowing really anything about the musical, because obviously it hadn't really appeared just yet, I just tried to get into the song as much as possible.

[4:05] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: I had a little bit of background about what the character was like, but not a huge amount.

[4:11] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: So I came with, I don't like coming unprepared, so I came with a routine, but something that could potentially be moulded.

[4:20] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: So basically, as I was working, myself and Lucy would talk, and she's like, actually, you know, I really want this bit to be highlighted in the lyric, or I really want this to come across here, like how could we do that?

[4:31] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: So it was a bit of a mixture of coming with work that I felt represented that track and that queen in the best way I knew possible at that time, but also for Lucy to go, oh hey, what about if we try this and try this?

[4:45] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Because obviously she has the much deeper knowledge on what we were doing at that point in time.

[4:49] Brian Sedita: So at that point in your audition process, were you considering the historical piece of like who Cleves was?

[4:57] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Was that part of the conversation at any point that early on?

[5:01] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Not super early on. I did do a little bit of my own research to, you know, have a vague idea because we do get taught about that in history over here, but not really about Henry's wives so much.

[5:14] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: And certainly, I mean, school was a very long time ago for me, and I stopped history in like year nine, so I would have been about 13.

[5:24] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: So, you know, a very, very long time ago. But I do, you know, for me to choreograph, I love living in the narrative and the lyric and making sure that I really understand the foundation of where everything has come from.

[5:36] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: So I did a little bit of research, and obviously she's, you know, saying sentences like fill my gobbler up to the brim and things like that.

[5:44] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: So you can obviously see some historical references or hear some historical references, but because the song also lived in, I think, the most inverted commas hip hop or R&B kind of sound that we have in the show, I also knew that it was probably going to be the one that had the most, I guess, modern-day kind of feel in a way.

[6:06] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: I mean, they all do, they all have a very different palette, but I knew that the framing of this was probably going to be in how we set her rather than the moves we did, i.e., her sitting on something like a throne with, you know, her ladies in waiting around her and having that as more sort of the historical inverted commas visual as opposed to essentially what they were doing physically.

[6:31] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Lucy and Jamie, the other director, they just had such clear ideas by that point of how they wanted the queens to come across.

[6:38] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: So actually, it was a really kind of collaborative affair because they just really knew how they wanted to sell these queens at this point, what was the important thing to come across.

[6:50] Brian Sedita: And so that really helped me because I, of course, no one wants to design something or choreograph something that isn't useful to somebody, you know.

[6:59] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Yeah.

[6:59] Mary Dina: Before we move into the casting process, I'm curious as a choreographer and who has worked on several different types of projects.

[7:06] Mary Dina: I mean, I know you have experience with hip hop and pop styles, and then also musical theater as well.

[7:12] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: So what do you look for in a creative team or in collaboration when choosing what kind of project or what show or what dance piece you want to work on?

[7:24] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: I think it's just something that will really challenge me.

[7:26] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: And I love to work with new people, and I think new people and new teams will always ask something different of you.

[7:35] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: So, what is great now is that as I'm starting to do more things, people go, oh, she doesn't just do hip-hop theatre, or oh, she doesn't just do musical theatre, which is what I really love because I love dance and performing in all of its forms.

[7:49] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: So I really love a team that can just embrace that.

[7:52] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: I mean, I just did something called Wonderful Town, which was like a Leonard Bernstein piece, and you know, properly got back into sort of the 1930s type jazz and musical theatre feel, and it was so lovely to do something like that because it's been quite a while since I've been able to do something like that commercially.

[8:12] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: I just love teams that are willing to take a bit of a chance on you and see what else you can do and ultimately really challenge you.

[8:22] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: I mean, again, with Wonderful Town that we just did, how it was set at Opera Holland Park was in a very, very specific stage playing space that was quite difficult for a cast of 14.

[8:33] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: But I enjoy challenges, and I like people, yeah, I guess letting me sort of figure out myself how I might do this, but then also being there with their ideas so that you can just make it as collaborative a process as possible.

[8:49] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Because I just think that's what makes the best shows is when you can see the teams really embracing what each other do and then making them work together.

[8:59] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: I think when they're too compartmentalized, that's where the show jars for me, I think personally.

[9:05] Brian Sedita: Moving into casting, do you remember the first time that you were brought in to work on the auditions for Six and what kind of involvement you had in that process?

[9:15] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Yeah, I mean initially when I came on board, we already had the cast for Six.

[9:15] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: So it was so lovely to meet all of the ladies, two of whom had done this from like pretty much the get-go, which was Amy Atkinson and Natalie Paris.

[9:32] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: But after that, so the actual first thing we were really auditioning for after that was a UK tour, and then essentially after that the first US, I guess, mini tour, which is where we have all our lovely ladies from Broadway.

[9:48] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: So I, at the beginning, was more sort of in the casting process because at that point I did have associates, but it was more all of us that was doing that kind of casting ourselves.

[10:02] Brian Sedita: How does that change things for you being like handed a cast to work with and now you have to choreograph with them rather than a cast that you're now going to be strategic in the casting sessions and figure out and pinpoint skills that you can highlight into your choreography?

[10:20] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: I guess, I mean, I always want to create a show that people can move in and out of.

[10:28] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: I mean, nobody obviously knew the success that Six was going to have, which we're incredibly grateful for.

[10:34] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: But when you create a show, I guess you always hope for that.

[10:39] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: So what I would always try and do in any show that I do is make sure, like I said, that the choreography can, there's obviously a standard of the choreography in terms of a dance standard, and it has a mix of certain genres that you would hope that people have trained in.

[10:54] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: And sometimes we have to train up certain performers a little bit more in certain areas during their rehearsal process.

[11:02] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: So in an audition process, what I'm really looking for is can this person take this on?

[11:07] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Are they taking on correction?

[11:09] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Are they really trying, even if they can't maybe quite get the hang of something that I'm doing, are they really trying to get it?

[11:16] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Because that's what matters more to me in a rehearsal process and ultimately will just make us fly, is if that person or those people can really attach on to what you're saying and also learn a new skill set for themselves.

[11:30] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: So I was really lucky with the original cast because they were all great movers, and I guess patience is a thing, right? Because you're still trying to find what this thing was. I was trying to find what it was. Lucy was trying to find what it was. We were all building this thing, this newer version of this thing together. So I guess some of it is kind of modelled on them because, you know, when they kind of get into it and then they've got that, you know, they might do a reaction somewhere, and you're like, oh my god, that really works.

[11:57] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: But actually, let's keep that in. So there's some of that that obviously would have been moulded on the first cast, but where I would getting back to what I was saying before, where I wouldn't want to slip up is make something so specific to a first cast that you don't feel that people can then step into it. And I build a lot of my choreography from intention and from narration and from what needs to be said at that certain time in the script or in the story. And so hopefully, when we get into our rehearsal process and people dive into the script and dive into the lyrics, then the choreography makes more sense because they're like, aha, I see you're attaching on to that lyric, or you're saying this because she's really defiant at this time about saying no. So that's why the physicality is like this.

I'm not just doing an arm for the sake of it, or I'm not just, you know, acting a little bit angry. No, I'm frustrated because of this. So I hope that there's enough interlacing there that other casts can move in and understand it from the roots up.

[12:56] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: I love hearing it described as you don't want to create something that other people can't get into because there are so many shows, and it's very clear when replacements go into certain shows that oh, this doesn't sit well on them, whether it's vocally or physically in terms of choreography and staging. Absolutely. And I do think there's a whole breed of shows at the moment that are asking a lot from performers, and I think that's amazing. And I do actually think, and you know, I'll probably get my wrist slapped for this. I do think in the States that they prepare their performers slightly better than we do over here. I feel like over here we're still very pigeonholed, as in, oh, you train in straight acting, or you train in musical theatre, or you train in commercial, and everything is mixing into these wonderful melting pots of, you know, different ways of singing, different ways of acting, you know, putting map into shows, and therefore the physicality that comes with that is also very different. So I do still think we've got a lot to do over here in terms of how we train people for these things.

[13:59] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: So, like I said, what I do really enjoy is the fact that we really encourage our performers at the start to almost do a bit of a boot camp with us, and you know, we'll do certain exercises and certain days where we're just focusing on grooves or we're just focusing on, you know, poses or how the ladies are walking and posing in their heels and, you know, just how that affects their body language, but also making sure they're staying true to the queen that they are being, you know, we can't have Jane Seymour, you know, acting like Nicki Minaj. It's not her, it's not her character. So, you know, it's quite a lot to do physically in the show.

[14:35] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Are there any specific like lingo or language that you guys came up with throughout the development for the choreography or any moves that the fans would really appreciate to hear? Um, my gosh. I mean, it's gonna sound so random. We have things like the rubber band move, dolphin taps, Ibiza, like it's all really random things that right now will sound like what the hell they're talking about. And also because nobody can see me like demonstrate the move. But yeah, it's like anything. You have shortcuts for certain sections of the show because of either what they look like or what's being said at that moment, or yeah, where the move has actually been taken from initially. So yeah, we have a ton of those. And what's really nice is I'll go in and the associates will say something else. I'll be like, oh, what's that? They're like, oh yeah, we've called this section this because, you know, and it's really nice to be able to have that.

[15:27] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: I was gonna ask if anything changed when bringing it over to the states because I know with talking with Toby and Lucy that even some of like the lines that were in the original script have changed, and even some of like the songs have, you know, some of the lyrics have changed just to make it more relatable for the different country and the different culture. So I did, did any of the moves, any of the styles of the choreography change from bringing it over? Not so much the styles. I mean, as we added in the music, obviously, we souped up certain sections and we changed certain sections and any rehearsal process we go into, we always take that as an opportunity to, you know, look at it and go, is this sitting in the right way?

And we've hopefully done that for the last time over here when we opened it at the Lyric at Christmas, because obviously, you know, you don't want to constantly go in and change and change and change, but because we did do the initial process so quickly, every rehearsal process after that, we've tried to fix the things that we felt maybe weren't quite sitting correctly or whatever.

[16:43] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: But as you say, it was more the lyrics. So whereas we'd be like, oh mate, just shut up, and that would be a very British thing to say. We've got like bro, just shut up, you know, and they've like slightly flip things, and whereas over here we'll be like, oh yeah, I'm really fit, and you know, for that over here, that means like really gorgeous or really, really sexy, whereas, you know, over here, uh sorry, over there, I think you take it more as that actually being physically like, you know, uh sportsman fit. So we like change that to I'm really hot or, you know, little things like that. So, um, so it was much more lyrically, and then like I said, just with the, I guess changes and upgrades we made for Broadway, of course, that came with some changes in the choreography, but yeah, I literally have to sit on my hands now. I'm not allowed to do anything else. Like I just have to keep it as it is.

[17:33] Brian Sedita: Well, what a fun and unique process to be able to. I know obviously you just said that the first installment really happened very quickly, but to be able to have, I think you had at one point like five or six productions running across the world, and so that, so I'm sure you were very busy, but also, you know, having that luxury of going in and having the ability to make the changes. I know Lucy made a comment in our last episode about, you know, that was like the thing that she liked the most was being able to go in and like see what she could change from watching the previous productions.

[18:05] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Yeah, exactly that. Exactly that. How does that work in terms of because I know we have shows that like on Broadway, you would say that the show is frozen. I don't know if that's a term that you guys would use. Yep. How does that work in terms of like unfreezing certain things in shows and actually going in and changing the choreography? Yeah, so basically we've only done that in rehearsal. So when we came back to the Lyric Theatre in December, um we were supposed to go there in November. So that was going to be the last time we were going to implement any changes because basically as we've opened up the productions, each production has been slightly behind. So the West End opened, then the tour opened.

So the tour got some little adaptations because we were doing that rehearsal process for the first time. Then the same when we went to the States, but then because we were able to inverted commas glow up the Broadway production because we had a longer rehearsal period and we were moving to a wonderful Broadway house. We were like, okay, that Broadway house will now be the ideal of what we always wanted Six the Musical to be. So now that ideal has to trickle down to all the other productions, which takes time and which takes money. So the West End have just got all of the Broadway changes, but for example, the tour hasn't just yet, so it will be a constant thing now of over time just making sure that each production gets those changes.

And like I said, especially out of COVID, that might take a little bit of time because we've obviously got a lot of recoupment to do. So for example, some changes involve the set being slightly bigger or um a costume being slightly different, and that obviously costs money. So things will take a little bit of a moment to trickle down, but essentially, once they've trickled down, then that should be it because we've now got our optimum ideal of what the show should be.

[20:02] Brian Sedita: That's so interesting. So with your background and all the different dance genres that you've worked in and have trained in and have choreographed in, how were you able to balance between the historical references in Six with the pop style genre of the music? And then, I mean, did you find it challenging to kind of marry the two? I mean, I know with your background and your current job with Hamilton too. I mean, you're also probably helped a little bit along the way. Because also when we saw the show, we were able to see it right before COVID struck. And one of the things I really loved and that stuck out to me in the choreography were those little like nods and references to like I guess Tudor period choreography, if I even know what that is.

[20:51] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Yeah, exactly. And I think it was always the case that we never wanted to forget where the women came from, and but also the fact not disguise the fact that we're wrapping it up in a very nice current pop package, and do you know what? In a way, my job was made relatively easy because the music's so good, and the music has those references in. So when we have a harps accordion, or you know, when you've got a sample of green sleeves, it kind of does that job for you. So as I was mentioning earlier, I think I hate going into something without having more of an idea. Now, obviously, I mean I'm old, but I wasn't born in that time period. Um, so and there's obviously not huge, huge huge references of choreography on YouTube from that kind of time.

But I was quite lucky that when I was younger at college, I did a national associate, a national sort of teaching associate, which was basically learning different dance styles and original dance styles from Ireland or from England, or you know, typical English country dancing and different things like that. So that helped me a little bit in sort of rounding off what that Tudor period could feel like and could be like, and we didn't, you know, we can't ever forget that we're dealing with queens and we're dealing with a certain reality, and that comes with a certain posture, and so that was actually more the interesting thing was actually when you're out of the choreography, just going, okay, let's look at what your posture is in this scene or how you're going to react to that comment, because obviously you're going to react characteristically in a certain way, but we can't suddenly break into it being you of now.

Like how is that going to be? And that's the thing as a choreographer and as a movement director that really interests me is not just what the choreography looks like, but how you tie that through the entire show so that we don't break that physical language that the actors have. Um, but like I said, in terms of the actual choreography, the wonderful music does a lot of that for me. And it would just be that I'd be freestyling in my house, and then that would sort of come out that okay, okay. So they could have a little sort of like partnership sort of courtship thing here. And you know, again, going back to what I was saying about get down, what is the setting here? You know, should the setting be slightly different here, or is this setting requiring more of like almost like a little mix, a girl band over here, a little mix setup where, you know, we're very evidently all doing the same thing to the front at the same time, and it's more sort of modern-day choreography.

So, and also trial and error looking, looking back at it and going, okay, that's really working, that's not working. I feel like we could have something more here, you know, all trial and error ultimately.

[23:45] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: So would you mind? I mean, we can choose maybe one song if it's easier, but I'd love if you could break down the process of how you choreographed maybe your most like memorable number since you couldn't pick a favorite, or maybe one that has like a particular memory that was special to you in the process of, yeah, or if you want to take a specific section from that song to just walk us through a little bit.

[24:07] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: I think something that actually we had to be very careful with was all you want to do, because that song really goes from one place to a completely other place. And the whole point of that song is to make the audience almost come on board with Catherine Howard and laugh at the fact that you know the whole show, she's basically been almost playing a bit of a flirt, a bit of an airhead, one would presume. And then suddenly you get taken through what ends up being hell. And I don't, a, I when I first heard the song, I mean, it cut me to shreds because I was like, no one hears about like no one hears about this, and also they'd written it in such a clever way for you to then feel so guilty for how you were laughing and just going along with this lovely pop song at the beginning.

[25:04] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: And what Lucy had said at the beginning, and what I'd said at the beginning, uh, similarly, is because the choruses constantly repeat, but how she sings them changes. So we go from that flirtiness, we go from sort of, oh, okay, this isn't quite working out, to then like, okay, I'm getting a bit tired of this to oh my god, like I I'm I'm stuck in this, I can't get out of this. Um we we wanted to sort of repeat the same movement that did a similar thing. So we wanted to make sure that firstly, we wanted to make sure that the the ensemble of queens behind her never represented a male energy, i.e., we we we wanted to be really careful that the queens weren't playing the men that were putting Catherine Howard through these certain events, so um, that's actually really hard for them to perform because they have to be really careful facially that they don't look like they are trying to embody that um male energy that she encountered, but also they need to have something going on that doesn't completely detach them from the routine or make them look glazed.

[26:20] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Um so one that was quite a hard performance thing to strike, so we had to just really look at their physicality, really look at kind of where their focus was. And what we've sort of came up with was just them being the kind of people that know something is going on but not doing anything about it. So they're aware of this situation, but they're choosing not to comment on it. And the other thing that Lucy was really keen to do is to constantly look like Catherine Howard just had this magnetism and just hands kind of on her at any given point. Now that didn't necessarily mean physically, physically on her all the time, but certainly drawn to her. So when I was, for example, choreographing this chorus, which involves like a lot of arm reaches in towards Catherine Howard, like the hands are turned a certain way for a specific reason.

[27:13] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: We start the ladies in the four choruses turning away from Catherine Howard but reaching towards her. Then the second time we do it, our bodies are a little bit more towards her. Then we've got another hand reaching reaching towards her. So that by the end, they're very close to her, their bodies are fully turned into her, and all the hands are practically on her. So that we hopefully show this kind of encroachingness of how she felt about this particular male energy. So I think that was that was one of the numbers we really had to be quite delicate in how we approached it, but to make sure we were saying the right thing. But like I said, I also think it's one of the harder ones to perform because actually, even though we've got in terms of their brain, for one of our alternates, for example, they've got repetition, which you think would be great, but actually the repetition slightly changes and it's slightly different for everybody.

[28:06] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Um, and then we have to make sure that incrementally, I mean, the number is almost seven minutes long, so we have to make sure that when we come out the gate, we're not coming out the gate at a sprint because we've got to get to the sprint by the end. So, in terms of emotional energy, physical energy, and just how they're executing the choreography, is quite a hard balance to strike.

[28:27] Mary Dina: Yeah, I imagine even not just like the physical toll that it takes on your body, but the emotional and the mental toll that it could take on the performer's body. That's so interesting that you mentioned the hands, because that was actually one of the obviously not having listened to the cast album until basically I think right before COVID hit, because we had just seen it a few days prior, um, where I had many, many, many months of listening to the cast album. Um, I do remember every time I listen to it, I I have like a visual memory of the hands around Sam. I mean, that's who we saw play um around Sam, and that was something that just like stuck with me from the very like the as a very clear and powerful visual.

[29:06] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: So that's really good.

[29:07] Mary Dina: Yeah, yeah.

[29:08] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: So thank you for sharing that. Um I mean, speaking of more of the somber moments of the show, I mean, most of the songs have a very upbeat tempo, um, except for um James songs.

[29:22] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Yeah, Singhore song. You can tell like when you're watching the the show, even listening to the cast album, like it fits perfectly, I think, in in in terms of like where all the songs are laying. But how from a movement standpoint, how are you um, I guess um, how did you or uh kind of approach that piece from a movement side? And additionally, I I always wonder with you know, slower songs that are more of ballad types, how much of it is choreography, how much of it is the actor, the director, whatnot. And especially with the fact that this has that concert-like feel yeah and I feel like pop stars do have like hand gestures and certain lines and stuff like that so I wonder how much of that was how do you work that in the process?

[30:10] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Yeah it's a really interesting question because A like you say Mary I think through what you've heard thus far in the soundtrack or thus far in the show you need that moment to just kind of and I I think that moment is important in in every theatre production that you give the audience a second to maybe just listen after seeing so much visual because obviously with Tim's lighting as well and Emma's amazing set there is so much going on even though the set isn't moving but that you know it's a it's a bright show. So I think it it is really important to have that moment and I think it's really important to respect that physically um when Lucy was and Jamie were talking about the Jane Seymour moment they did say you know we really want it to have this demi lavato feel where you know when the big notes are there that they're really embodying that but now having done quite a few different productions we see that a lot of that is how the actor is taking on Jane in their own bodies because I think it's it's you know I could have set their big note that okay your mic's always going to be in your right hand you're gonna lean down and you're gonna push your arm out at the side but on some people doing that note there either sometimes they you know physically they're like I'm not gonna get the note out like that or they might you know they might be that form where I'm like oh that doesn't that doesn't look right on you so we we sort of pinpointed some things that we could do, but it was more trying to encourage the performer to really when they had the bigger notes or that bigger heartbreak section that they they let that come out. They don't feel that they had to, you know, hold it in.

[31:40] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: And in terms of the the of the ensemble of Queens at that point, that they're just supporting that moment with you know where their bodies are facing, where their focus is, like you know, when they end up framing her at the end, just where they should be to make sure that all the focus is on that person, and um sometimes, yeah, they they are harder to do because you can feel like you're doing nothing, and sometimes I feel like you only know how it hits when you see it in the flow of the whole show. I think in isolation it can be very easy to go, oh well, that's boring, or oh, well, we don't feel like she's doing enough. But actually, once you then get into the show, you're like, she doesn't need to do any more. Actually, she just needs to really embody what those lyrics are and let that come out however it comes out. So I think if she think if she started parading the stage, stage right and stage left, it wouldn't quite feel right.

[32:31] Mary Dina: What is different about working on six that that you found from working on other more traditional musicals?

[32:37] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: I have to be way more inventive with my formations because with there only being six lovely ladies, yeah. It was my main thing was when I started this, I was like, I don't want anyone's number to feel the same. So obviously, like I said, I'm very lucky because that music does that a lot for us anyway. But I wanted to make sure that we, you know, we weren't constantly feeling like we were seeing everybody in a in a pyramid all the time or a V all the time, and equally, you know, there's six of them, and and I can't also have them running stage right to stage left when they're trying to bang out these big, you know, belting notes. So that was sort of the biggest challenge for me, really.

[33:17] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: I think was how am I going to make this feel like they're watching something different every time that we go into a Queen's number? And especially because the setup is to do Queen's number, bit of dialogue, Queen's number, bit of dialogue, which absolutely works. You know, the last thing I wanted someone to feel was like, Oh, I feel like I'm saying the same thing. I feel like you know, we're just repeating the same stuff here.

[33:36] Mary Dina: I was also gonna say, I mean, especially since these queens don't really leave the stage. I mean, they're really on stage. I mean, I think they leave the stage for right before like House of Hobby.

[33:47] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Exactly, exactly. That's lovely, lovely costume change.

[33:50] Mary Dina: Yeah, yeah, we did um have to put in a couple of things where they could come off for for water breaks uh and things like that, but yeah, essentially they're on stage most of the time. So, and bless them, that's why there's moments, you know, we didn't stand all the way through James Seymour's songs like let's give their feet a rest in the heels, and you know, so there's certain points that we try and sort of you know help them out, but and like you say, with with six people, it is obvious, you know, if someone's got a costume issue or suddenly something happens with their inn ears, or you know, it is a little more obvious when somebody leaves stage.

[34:25] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: So it is it's a very taxing show for them. Bless them. I love them all.

[34:30] Mary Dina: Uh, when you found out that Six was actually moving to Broadway, what was maybe uh your first question about what the process was going to be like different from uh previous productions, and or whether that be specifically about six or just about things that happen on Broadway that may not happen around the world in other places.

[34:52] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Well, I've never been asked that before. That's a really good question. Um at first I didn't believe it. I was like, what? What? We're going to broad actual broad New York. We're actually going to New York. Okay. Um, I think it was more understanding. It it took a minute for the penny to drop uh with knowing what Toby, Lucy, and Jamie had always envisaged for the production because I wasn't there from the very beginning. So, you know, when they were talking about sort of a throne coming up a certain way, or I I don't want to say too much, just for people who haven't seen the show. But certain things that happen, I was like, oh, oh, you wanted that all along. And they were like, well, yeah, but you, you know, their their heads have been in the show from the beginning, whereas I've I've always carried out what we could carry out at that particular time.

[35:44] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: So it was a bit of getting my head round that. And then I think what really hit is when I first got the job on Hamilton as resident choreographer, I came over to the States to learn the show. And they gave me the address that we were rehearsing at New 42, um, 42nd Street Studios, and I was like, wait, I'm on 42nd Street? I'm like, what? So when I walked into these studios, I was so just I guess shocked and a little bit sort of like fangirling on the fact that I'm in the middle of New York rehearsing. So when then we got told that Six was rehearsing there for Broadway, I was like, wait, what? Because it just didn't I was I was comparing everything to Hamilton or other shows that I knew and I was like, but we can't be rehearsing at New 42 because you know, Hamilton rehearsed there like years ago.

So I think it was just, and obviously that's only a rehearsal studio, like anybody can go there, but I think in my head I'd pinned it as something. I remember in the cab, I'd got in from London, this was in January 2019, I was in the cab from the airport to London and the cab drove past the theatre. And I just went, like I know no one can see my face right now, but I was just dumbstruck. I just went, oh my God, like my name is on the theatre in New York. Like I just I just literally that that was then when everything felt real for the first not that it doesn't feel real over here, but obviously I'm here all the time. And I just don't think I realized how big a deal it was until I drove past that theatre and I was like, oh my god.

And then to just have so many wonderful fans that just adore the show. And to I literally I balled my eyes out on the first preview because I could not believe how much love and adoration there was coming from the auditorium to the Queens on stage and just to the whole creative team, everyone, they were just so generous. And I think I don't know if that's really answered the question or not, but I just think that is the thing that really struck me in terms of the work being there. I think talking from like a work point of view, I'm always really amazed at how strong the unions are in America compared to here, and just how much the unions do for the performers, that was definitely a big change.

And going, no, you definitely can't go past this break, or they have to have a break here, or they have to do this here, or this has to be set like the unions are on it over there, and that was quite a big difference. And not saying that we haven't got unions here that don't do things, but they seem very, very, very proactive over in the States. So yeah, I guess those were sort of the biggest differences for me.

[38:35] Brian Sedita: Since you brought up being the resident choreographer for Hamilton over in the West End, and since Six basically blew up, but not overnight, but definitely blew up into you know the five or six productions around the country. Do you think that your experience or your time with Hamilton, which seems to be like a very like large machine now? Do you think that kind of prepared you for the several international companies for Six?

[38:59] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Oh my god, it has helped me no end. Absolutely being able to be part of this wonderful machine where you know things are set up in a certain way, or you know, like you say, you can see from their rollout kind of how they're doing things. It's been so invaluable. And also the creative team are so supportive of me. And I don't mean just me, they're supportive of so many people that work for them in this kind of role, understanding that they're often going to be people that want to do their own work as well, and they have given me nothing but love, nothing but support. And yeah, it's this show was such a big learning curve because prior to that the shows that I were doing was a lot of them were with Zoo Nation Dance Company, which was a lot of hip hop theatre work, smaller companies, but also I was doing movement direction on a lot of plays or you know, the odd musical here and there. But like you say, Hamilton is quite the machine. So I've learned so much and it yeah, it's been absolutely invaluable for sure.

[39:57] Brian Sedita: The way that you talked about that first preview back in February, I guess. Are you going to be there when Broadway comes back in September?

[40:06] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: I hope so. If your country will let us in.

[40:09] Brian Sedita: Oh my gosh, that's true. You guys don't get some sort of um like visa or waivers for that kind of stuff.

[40:18] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: It's the two week thing of being somewhere else for two weeks because I think we're on your red list right now. So yeah, because I want to go to London too. So yeah, I guess it's in the hands of COVID and the ruling and all the rest of it. So we can hope we can keep everything crossed. Um I'm tempted not to say anything because I don't want to jinx anything.

[40:44] Brian Sedita: Yeah.

[40:44] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: But I hope by then everything crossed. Um especially because oh, especially by your opening in October. I'm hoping that you guys will be able to get out here.

[40:54] Brian Sedita: I know, I know we didn't get it. We didn't get it.

[40:59] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: I know.

[41:01] Brian Sedita: But speaking of Broadway's reopening, do you have something that you're looking forward to? Uh the next steps of either Six or the next steps of your career.

[41:09] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Oh my gosh, I'm just I'm just so grateful and thankful for everything that is coming my way at the moment, especially after the last year and a half. I just want I just want to do everything. Like I was saying before, I want to be challenged. I want to continue to work in theatre. I'd love to work in film and TV more than I'm doing at the moment. And I just hope that everything I'm doing has a really long life and that people just realize how much they need theatre, TV, film, music, any kind of creative art in their life because we've been starved for so long, and it's always been the hustle in this creative arts, right? It's always a hustle. So if anyone was built for COVID, it was probably us, but also you know, first out, last in, all of that kind of saying, and I you know, I think different countries have treated their creative artists very, very, very differently.

Um, and I just I just hope we're here to stay, and I just hope that we continue to do wonderful things, things that you can go to and just forget about your life for a second, but also things that mean something that can carry a message and try and change things for the better. Um, because I think art is just so wonderful for that. So just keep it that's just greedy, isn't it? Keeping it cross for everything.

[42:28] Brian Sedita: There's no wrong answer there. Um Brian, do you want to jump into our lightning round?

[42:34] Brian Sedita: Sure. Uh so these are it it's not uh it's not a round where you need to say them lightning fast, lightning speed, but we're just not gonna respond to them. It's just like one-off questions.

[42:47] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Okay, I'm very competitive with myself.

[42:50] Brian Sedita: All right, so we can time it if you need.

[42:52] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: No, I'm joking. Um the first question is what is one thing in the theater industry that confuses you?

[42:59] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Um, how there are so many male figures in choreography, directing and other roles when ultimately it's a very female-led, uh not female-led, but female engaging activity. And I'm not saying that those people shouldn't be in those positions, but it confuses me as to why there is not more of a divide in those positions.

[43:22] Brian Sedita: Uh, what are three adjectives that describe your ideal working environment?

[43:26] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Patience, respect, and love.

[43:28] Brian Sedita: Is there something in your process that you would find unique to you?

[43:32] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Oh, oh. Um, I just hope that in any process that I do that people realize that I'm there to get the work done, but I'm also there for them and to have the most fun possible because I really enjoy my job and I hope that I strike that balance well.

[43:51] Brian Sedita: Uh, what is one job in the theater industry that you would trade jobs with for one week?

[43:56] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Um, I'd like to go into lighting.

[43:58] Brian Sedita: Ooh, I love that.

[44:00] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: If you could pick one of your the songs that you've choreographed to dance on repeat, which would it be?

[44:09] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: In Six specifically or anything?

[44:12] Brian Sedita: Anything.

[44:14] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Oh my gosh. Do you know what I'm gonna have to say um it's an old one but showing me love by Robin S because it's just such a track. I think it might be more of a UK track but I absolutely love it.

[44:26] Brian Sedita: It's an old 9000 familiar with it myself.

[44:29] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Oh my god show me love Robin S you have to listen after this.

[44:33] Brian Sedita: I'm gonna Mary am I alone have you heard?

[44:35] Mary Dina: I don't I don't know I'm really bad with the name so I feel like I'm better with like listening to it.

[44:39] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: I'm gonna write this down.

[44:40] Brian Sedita: Okay we're gonna we're gonna circle back.

[44:42] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Yes.

[44:43] Brian Sedita: Uh what is one hobby you have outside of the theater?

[44:47] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Um none at the moment but I am very very very passionate about animals and animal well being um and I'm vegan and I try and have a lot of cruelty well I try and live as cruelty free as possible. So um and I also have a little dog as I mentioned earlier. So I think for me it's just right now I'd be spending time with her because I don't see her much at the moment.

[45:11] Brian Sedita: Do you have any books or resources that you find helpful to you and your process?

[45:15] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: I re oh do you know what I've now I'm now gonna completely forget the name of it but there were two books. Oh how to steal like an artist I've heard of that yes and then the same author did another one and they were both really great because even the way they're set out, they were I'm not good at seeing a bunch of words on a page. I get lost really easily. I my brain just wanders. But even the way the book was constructed was in a kind of creative way that kept you really interested. Um I forget the name of the other one, but yeah, those those two books were really interesting, really interesting to read.

[45:51] Brian Sedita: Amazing. Okay, and then our final question um what is your favorite part of the development process of a new show?

[45:58] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Oh, it's it's those initial creation periods where you're just you're really kind of like finding out what this show is. And I think when you've got a whole group of people in front of you, so I obviously as a choreographer, I'm in my brain a lot. I might, you know, I might use an assistant or an associate, but ultimately a lot of it is happening in your head. So to finally be in that development stage where you're seeing your ideas like actually on people, you're like, oh, there it is. Okay, that actually does work. Or oh my god, what were you thinking? Either way, you know.

[46:34] Brian Sedita: Amazing. Well, thank you so much. So, how can our listeners find you if they want to find you on social media or see any of your videos choreography?

[46:42] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Oh my gosh. Um, I am at Carrie Ann Ing on Instagram and Twitter. Um, I'm really rubbish because I'm trying to like do a YouTube page at the moment because I have just not I've been saying it for about seven years now. I need to do my YouTube page and get my videos up. So hopefully a YouTube page will appear. But in the meantime, at Carrie Ann Ing is probably the best.

[47:07] Brian Sedita: Awesome. I loved this episode. Thank you so much for taking the time to come speak with us.

[47:12] Carrie-Anne Ingrouille: Thank you for having me.

[47:14] Brian Sedita: Thanks everyone for listening to this episode of Page to Stage. To keep up with us, you can find us on Instagram and Facebook at Page2Stage Podcast. If you enjoyed this conversation, we have other episodes with theatre makers from Six the Musical. Check them out. Until next time. That's Brian. That's Mary. We'll see you later.