This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Brian Sedita: Hey everyone, welcome to Page to Stage. A conversation with theater makers. We're your hosts. That's Brian. And that's Mary. Join us as we focus the spotlight back on the theater maker to uncover their process. We speak with folks in the industry that often aren't heard from, such as stage managers, producers, crew members, marketing professionals, and everything in between. We hope you enjoy this episode.

[0:26] Adam Stocker: Hi, my name is Adam Stocker, and I'm a costume maker. Right now I'm working on TV and film for Apple.

[0:36] Mary Dina: Ooh, fun.

[0:37] Adam Stocker: Yeah.

[0:38] Mary Dina: My only exposure to costume building has been like in costume practicum in college, which totally takes me back.

[0:46] Adam Stocker: PTSD, which I used to call like the sweatshop of Montclair State University.

[0:52] Mary Dina: Oh my god.

[0:53] Adam Stocker: Um sometimes it feels like that. Actually, a lot of the times when people build their theaters, like they forget that the costume shop exists, and so they're often put in like a basement or like in a sub-area that has no windows and like not great emergency exits, and it feels like a sweatshop a lot of the time.

[1:12] Brian Sedita: Wow.

[1:12] Adam Stocker: I know I'm trying to think at the uh regional theater I worked at. I'm like, where was their shop?

[1:19] Brian Sedita: And I I think the answer is the basement.

[1:22] Adam Stocker: It's so funny. We we had two primary ones at Montclair State. One of them was like above one of the theaters, and it actually like had like a nice view of the skyline from Montclair um to the city. And then the other one was actually like an on campus, but like a separate like house, and it was called the Bond House, and it was just where they made costumes, and you had to like walk there.

[1:44] Mary Dina: And if it was in the winter, you were like sh your face was shred up by the wind.

[1:48] Adam Stocker: Yeah.

[1:49] Brian Sedita: Okay, so on your resume, you have like uh like 10 different roles, maybe. I'm just gonna list a few. Like, so you have first hand staff stitcher, costume shop assistant, wardrobe costume crew, assistant designer, wardrobe technician, costume coordinator, which I have a sidebar question about that name, about that title, um assistant draper, and many, many, many more, it seems like.

[2:25] Adam Stocker: So a lot of those job titles are like the same job, but the or at the at the very least have like the same job description, but the company that I worked for at the time just calls it the same, like something different. So, like firsthand and assistant draper are like almost the same thing, except that like as an assistant draper, I would do some pattern making, and as a first hand, I'm only doing like cutting and prepping for the stitchers.

[2:56] Adam Stocker: So I have worked as you know, as like a mild pattern maker that was in college, and then I worked as this as a staff stitcher, so like super professional stitcher at the Glimmer Glass Opera Festival and uh at Timberlake Studios, and then I worked as a first hand basically everywhere else I've worked as a first hand, which is the job that I kind of have grown into and really enjoy doing. How that works is like the pattern maker makes a pattern and then gives it to the first hand, and the first hand cuts it out and then gives it to a stitcher, and the stitcher assembles it.

[3:31] Mary Dina: And is the pattern just like getting very technical here, just for clarification, is the pattern like what you would see? Like, so if you're looking at a skirt, right, it would be like the skirt itself, not like the pattern of a design, like polka dots versus straight.

[3:46] Adam Stocker: Correct, correct. So imagine you have a skirt and you and you took it apart and put it into and you laid out all those pieces separately. That would be like the pattern. So then sometimes next to me at the uh my most recent job, like next to me is just like hangers of patterns. And and I like to keep all of the same costume on the same hanger. So it'll be like petticoat, skirt, bodice, neck, uh, collar, and then it'll be like facing pieces, which are like the inside pieces you don't even see. I know for like Princess Diana the musical, I made like a lot of the wedding dress, and that was just like piece, piece, piece, piece, piece. So many pieces. It was crazy.

[4:25] Mary Dina: I'm sure it was just layers upon layers. So you've gotten the opportunity to work on some really cool Broadway shows. Um, can you name a few just so just for context for our listeners?

[4:35] Adam Stocker: Oh, totally. Um Head Over Heels, Frozen, Tina Turner, Tootsie, Six, um, what was the one I just said? Diana.

[4:47] Brian Sedita: Diana. For any listeners out there that may not know, how is it brought upon your shop to then take on these pieces?

[5:00] Adam Stocker: So go so if we think about it this way, it's going from the designer, and then after it's designed, how is it brought to you guys? So uh the New York City costume shops outside of the Met Opera, the New York City of Ballet and Radio City, work on like a bidding system for uh shows. So oftentimes like the shop will put in a bid, and then whatever bid the producer and designers agree on is the bid that they take. A lot of the time, it's also like the shop owner is friends with a designer, and the designer is like, I'm gonna bring my show here, but you still have to like put in the bid for me to accept it.

[5:47] Adam Stocker: So it works on a bidding system, and I put air quotes out of politics.

[5:51] Brian Sedita: Yeah. You're not bidding out all of the costumes for one show to one shop, right? Like you could do, you know, dresses to the to the shop, for men's clothing, maybe to another.

[6:04] Adam Stocker: Yeah, I'm okay. I was pretty lucky to work at a shop with uh tailoring, a dressmaking and a crafts department. So we did get like a lot of stuff, but at the same time, when you're getting a lot of stuff from a lot of different shows, like you can't handle a full show every time. So like I meet people from other costume shops who are like, oh, I also worked on Tootsie, I also worked on Tina Turner, I also worked on, you know, whatever other show, Head Over Heels.

[6:30] Brian Sedita: You're probably working on like shows at the same time, right? So you're overlapping at all? Is that would you say that's true?

[6:35] Adam Stocker: Oh, totally, yeah. There's a lot of time, it's a lot of project management, like date just your day-to-day is project management because you're like, I know that this show ships out on Friday, but this show has a fitting on Wednesday, and then you have to figure out how to prioritize your time.

[6:51] Adam Stocker: Once the shop actually gets the bid, um, and if that's all accepted, and you guys are given a design. Do you guys ever get like a presentation from a designer? Uh, what's the communication like between you and the designer to make sure that what they're uh they're envisioning is coming to life? Who's really leading that within your internal team?

[7:11] Adam Stocker: That would be the company owner and the pattern makers. Those are the people who talk to the designers the most and have like super direct communication with them. I sometimes like don't even meet the designer.

[7:25] Brian Sedita: So then what's the first step when it comes to a piece that you're now going to work on? And if you'd like to use an example, that would probably be most helpful.

[7:34] Adam Stocker: So by the time it gets to me, the the pattern maker has had like a few conversations with the designer. And if the pattern maker is not the company owner, then they've talked to the company owner as well. And they've figured out all of the materials because the materials have already been bought or given to us and the pattern has already been made because when I come into play, I receive the pattern from the pattern maker.

[7:59] Adam Stocker: And then they explain to me how like what they want from it, like the amount of seam allowance. So like if it's if um let's say it's a cruise ship, cruise ships often have like very specific seam allowances in the contract. So I know like I have to put two inches of seam allowance in the side seam on both sides, and like four inches of hem allowance in the hem.

[8:24] Mary Dina: So do you know why that is?

[8:25] Adam Stocker: Why like cruise ships are Yeah, because they're cheap and they don't want to make a new costume for a new person.

[8:30] Mary Dina: I was gonna say, right? It's so that they could just change it if a new actor comes in.

[8:33] Adam Stocker: Yeah. And that's they're actually how you like large larger seams than normal is what you're saying.

[8:38] Adam Stocker: Yeah. And that's I was I was thinking the reverse. That's true of Broadway also. So like it's made to be super, super alterable for someone else to like jump into. But those affect how I lay things out on fabric. So I also like get the fabric and I lay it out on my table and I lay the pattern out, and I basically just like create a little puzzle for myself, and then I eventually cut it out and then hand it to a stitcher and explain to them how we want things finished and how we want it sewn together.

[9:07] Mary Dina: Now is the pattern that you're given is what is that like paper? Is it another kind of fabric?

[9:12] Adam Stocker: It's paper.

[9:12] Adam Stocker: It's usually like a brown construction paper almost. Sometimes it's like a white paper with like dots and numbers on it. That's pretty common also. Trying to say fabric is usually like my job. I try to conserve as much fabric as possible. A because it's ecologically friendly, but B, it's economically friendly. Um, because you don't want to have to go buy more fabric because a lot of the time you can't.

[9:37] Adam Stocker: Um so when I get the pattern, I will like lay it all out onto the fabric and like really make them like okay, can I do it this way? Can I do this way until it fits in a nice way that conserves as much fabric as possible while also getting all the things that we need from it, and then I cut it out. And then from there, where does the piece go after you?

[10:01] Adam Stocker: It goes to a stitcher, and a lot of the time you just like drop it into a bin and say, like, when you're done with whatever you're working on now, talk to me about this. Um, and then the stitcher will call you over to their sewing machine when they're ready, and then you can go talk to them about what it is and like what the show is, and not necessarily like they don't care what the show is about, but oftentimes for like the timesheets, you have to tell them what show it is so they are built appropriately.

[10:30] Adam Stocker: Um so you tell them the show name and what it is, and if you have a photo of the design, even better. And a lot of the stitchers, at least the ones I've worked with, have been in the industry for a really long time or have come from like other countries and thus they have worked in like the fashion industry and like in factories in from like the 80s and 90s in New York City.

[10:59] Adam Stocker: Um so they could look at a photo and and the pieces and like make it without having to talk to you at all. But sometimes they go back to their old like factory ways, which is not what theater always wants. So it's really nice to be able to like, okay, do this, this, and this, and then come talk to me about something else. I do that also because a lot of the time, like I don't have it all figured out, and the pattern maker doesn't always have it all figured out at the beginning.

[11:28] Adam Stocker: So you tell them to do like a few steps and then you have time to think while also like cutting something out for another show. So you're like always a whole other show, not even exactly exactly.

[11:39] Mary Dina: Oh wow. Wow, how would it like compartmentalize? So when you go over and and and you're speaking with the stitcher, are is like the the the hem lines or you know the the differences there is that part of the conversation or is that marked on the fabric as you're cutting?

[11:54] Adam Stocker: It's definitely marked. I use usually I like to use like a white pencil, they make them specifically for like marking fabric. So that's my favorite tool, but I also use chalk. If you use chalk, it will go away a little faster. But um you've used the white pencil, it will go away eventually, but is a so like just depends on what you're working on. If it's something that is like that is like super duper high profile client, super important, I'll probably use chalk because it will go away immediately and you won't see it again.

[12:25] Adam Stocker: But if you need something to last a little longer, then I use the white pencil. Because if I know a stitcher's not gonna get to my thing until like the end of the day, I don't want the chalk to go away. But everything is marked, like hemlines are marked. Um I and that's part of what you're doing.

[12:42] Adam Stocker: Yeah, so like making it as easy to read as possible without like without having to ask for directions is good.

[12:51] Brian Sedita: Crazy. And now is there a difference between how regular clothes are made, like street clothes versus costumes, like in terms of the like the start to finish, quite literally of the building of the whole costume? Is there like a big difference? Cause I know you mentioned a lot of the stitchers have worked in like the fashion industry or the fact, you know, in fashion factories.

[13:10] Adam Stocker: Fashion is made is like ready to wear, so like they just make it and send it out, and there's no accounting for who's wearing it. Whereas like theatrical costumes are that sort of mix between the like the speed of ready to wear but the the like uniqueness of a couture garment. So it is like it's definitely tailored to a specific person. Um but you still leave all the wiggle room to fit another person into it if need be.

[13:45] Brian Sedita: And I'm sure like I mean, you almost hate to say it, but I'm sure costumes are built for durability, right? Because they're wearing it eight times and they're doing sometimes crazy things in these costumes, versus you want to hope that you know street clothes are made for durability, but likely not.

[14:02] Adam Stocker: Right. They're they're certainly not made for singing and dancing and sweating for eight for eight days. And being ripped off and like quickly put on if needed. That's what gets me, is like the quick changes and like and like how I guess involved this might be jumping ahead, so Brian, apologies, but it just kind of came to me of like quick changes, and a lot of times you don't realize how quick a quick change will be until after the costume is built and you're already in the theater, right? So like how is that something that you that like the costume shops are aware of and are like trying to loosely craft the costume with like the ability to quickly make to make alterations if needed.

[14:45] Adam Stocker: Yeah, so oftentimes like you know there's a quick change because that's part of the script. Um so you have sometimes you're like, oh my god, I have a quick change costume, and it's built for a specific quick change. Sometimes they have to change the way that it's rigged, but oftentimes it's not that big of a deal because like you can you can fake a lot on like how it looks on the outside versus how it looks on the inside.

[15:16] Adam Stocker: So sometimes for theatric, like here's a big difference between fashion and and costumes is like costumes you they can they don't have to look amazing on the inside. Um obviously fashion is like always looks really nice and finished on the inside, but theater is like there's snaps, there's buttons, there's whatever you need on the inside. Um, and of course, all the seam allowance, which doesn't look good on the inside, but yeah, so to actually answer your question, I'm usually cutting something out knowing that it's gonna be quick rigged, and that is like a finishing technique that I have to like think about for the end.

[15:50] Brian Sedita: So you did mention that you're working with people that uh came from the fashion industry or fashion factories from you know, back when those were really in the garment district uh in New York City. That that's not really the case anymore, right?

[16:04] Adam Stocker: No.

[16:05] Brian Sedita: Uh and and then would you say that a lot of the other people are people that enjoy going to theater like yourself? Uh do you enjoy going to theater?

[16:12] Adam Stocker: I should ask. That's it's funny because I I like going to see plays, and there's like a there's like a maybe handful of musicals that I was like, I'm so excited this exists.

[16:24] Brian Sedita: Um were you okay?

[16:26] Adam Stocker: So then just to backtrack even further a little bit before I ask this next question. Were you into theater when you were younger and decided to get into this because you were drawn to fashion costumes and that side of things and said, hey, I'll do it in this industry?

[16:42] Adam Stocker: I think for the most part, I was drawn to the community inside of this the theaters that I was near as a kid, like specifically the community theaters that I was doing, um, and then the high school and like even my college theater, like classes and the people I I enjoyed.

[17:03] Brian Sedita: So you had a theatrical background or upbringing, at least to to drop you into your current role. Uh is that the case with a lot of people that work uh behind the scenes in these costume shops?

[17:15] Adam Stocker: Uh, you know, aside from the people that probably started out in fashion. I think there's really similar to me in the way that they're like, I love the community that is like the people in the theater industry, um, at least like on our level of the theater industry. And then separately, oh, I know how to sew.

[17:34] Adam Stocker: And I know how to merge those two things together. And then what's the environment like? If you were to bring us into like the costume shop, what would we find?

[17:41] Adam Stocker: Wow, I mean, it's such a mix of personalities. So in the shop that I in the costume shop that I most recently worked at, it was like old women from Ecuador and Colombia, a couple women from China, and then like a few people my age, a few people younger than me, and then some like 40 somethings.

[18:05] Adam Stocker: And then our boss is like mid-50s. And so you get this like really eclectic group of people. And like obviously everyone's like a little bit chatty to a degree because you're working like we, you know, you work with people for eight to ten hours a day. So you have to get to know them.

[18:24] Adam Stocker: So you kind of make friends, um, or don't. And it becomes like a lot of fun, especially when you throw in like all the other cultures and languages happening. So like I know now I know like a ton of Spanish and I know a a good handful of Cantonese and Mandarin, and all of the women from South America like really love celebrating holidays.

[18:50] Adam Stocker: And so, like every truly like every holiday, we would there's like something out for you to eat. And so you'd be like, What are these bagels for? And they'd be like, It's Arbor Day. You're like, who celebrates that? They're like, it's just a reason to celebrate, which I found to appreciate, like kind of almost too late.

[19:13] Adam Stocker: I was like, This is you're right, like we should be celebrating every chance that we get.

[19:18] Brian Sedita: Yeah, I mean, especially if if it, you know, so easily a job can become like mundane, or you just feel stale in it, especially if you're doing the same thing, you know, in theory over and over again. Probably what's refreshing about your job is that you're never doing the same thing over and over again to a certain degree.

[19:37] Adam Stocker: You are cutting over and over again. The act that you're doing is the same, but it's always something new.

[19:42] Brian Sedita: Yeah, that's m that's mostly true, which is nice because then you can kind of like freshly think of new things as you go. Like when you asked me what shows I worked on, I was like, I don't even think I know. Did you work on any long-running shows that were out for, you know, uh enough time to really have a couple replacements?

[20:03] Adam Stocker: No, I have not worked on any long running shows.

[20:06] Brian Sedita: Well, how about when we came back from the shutdown, right? Was there any costumes that you had to like completely redo?

[20:12] Adam Stocker: Yeah. Because we had to completely redo all the costumes for Six when we came back from the pandemic.

[20:19] Brian Sedita: I just want to point out the fact that they won the Tony Award, or I should say that designer won the Tony Award for best costume design.

[20:27] Adam Stocker: But I always think of this, you know, with the technicians that work behind sound design, lighting design, scenic costumes, I think those people really are are what brings those designs to life. And most of the time, in my opinion, I I would have to believe that a lot of the time the Tony voters are going to see these shows and looking at the finished product and voting based on a finished product which has been fully fleshed out due in part to your work, rather than what the Tony Award is actually for, which is the design, you know, the sketched out actual design of how it's going to be functional and in in terms of the show.

[21:09] Adam Stocker: Yeah, because they're because they're not getting like the plot. Like they're not getting the lighting plot, like these Tony voters.

[21:12] Brian Sedita: Right.

[21:15] Adam Stocker: They're not getting lighting plots. They're not getting designs. I mean, it might be included in like promotional, like anything promo-wise the show sends out to Tony Voters, but usually those are like gifts or like this is the journey of the show.

[21:28] Adam Stocker: Because I've seen a lot of those. And you know what? It's hard enough for every Tony Voter to actually honestly go see every show that's out that season. So I I just think that it's almost um it's almost not even thought of that going to see the show and looking at the costume is not actually what you're supposed to be voting on.

[21:38] Adam Stocker: You're supposed to be voting on the design. So it it should just be Tony Award for costumes, not design.

[21:56] Brian Sedita: Well then I'd have then I'd have a Tony sitting on my table over there, huh?

[22:00] Adam Stocker: Or your costume shop would.

[22:02] Brian Sedita: Yeah, at least the shop would.

[22:04] Adam Stocker: Exactly. But I I say all this, I say all this to just, you know, put it out there and and make people think a little more about, you know, what do awards really mean? And I only use this as an example because you did work on Six, with which did recently win the Tony Award for costume design.

[22:22] Adam Stocker: Yeah, but it's great, it's a great thought experiment because I know for a fact that like even like Broadway producers don't even know my job exists. Um a lot of them don't even know that the costumes are like made. I I some of them assume that you just buy a costume.

[22:42] Adam Stocker: Or even the people who go and see the show, like they don't know that I'm somewhere else making this costume for non-un, like I and that I'm non-union too. Well, I'm union now, but I was non-union working on Six.

[22:57] Brian Sedita: Exactly.

[22:58] Adam Stocker: And and I mean Mary and I say it all the time, that's why we started this podcast is to kind of spotlight people that are never in the spotlight.

[23:07] Brian Sedita: Um but going back to the union thing, do you want to just give a quick uh rundown of that historical context?

[23:14] Adam Stocker: Um I don't know the full historical context, uh unfortunately, but I do know Are all theaters are all theater costume shops non-union?

[23:24] Brian Sedita: No.

[23:25] Adam Stocker: The Metropolitan Opera, the New York City Ballet, and Radio City are like the three main union house like costume shops.

[23:35] Adam Stocker: Um, but like that's because they're their own entities, like everything they do is union labor, because they made a deal a long time ago. But the costume shops in New York City and even like some scene shops wherever they are, like they're not necessarily union.

[23:52] Adam Stocker: And I know for sure the costume shops are not union.

[23:55] Brian Sedita: Um union stuff like just really like racks my brain.

[24:00] Adam Stocker: Like 'cause I feel like I have so many questions, but also I'm just like w ultimately it's like if there are unions in the theater, how come there aren't all like every single job should be protected, right?

[24:11] Brian Sedita: You I mean, wow, yes, I agree.

[24:15] Adam Stocker: Um and ironically, I work for a producer, so like I I have that producer like side of it where I not where I understand, because I don't, obviously, but I also like I I see that side of it of what you're talking about.

[24:28] Brian Sedita: Right.

[24:28] Adam Stocker: But as long as there's a way to exploit labor, you you will take that chance, which is why we're not union.

[24:36] Adam Stocker: How I usually explain it to people is like the the people who are inside of the theater are union almost like all the time. So like the people doing wardrobe backstage, they're union. The people who are laying down cables are union.

[24:52] Adam Stocker: Um the people in the pit have a union. But like once you're outside of that theater, you that's no longer the case. Like I'm not that's not then you're not necessarily union.

[25:04] Brian Sedita: Would it be the responsibility of the shops to unionize?

[25:09] Adam Stocker: Um yeah, then their bidding packages would just be higher.

[25:13] Brian Sedita: Right.

[25:13] Adam Stocker: Unless they were all union and all had a deal with Broadway producers.

[25:19] Brian Sedita: Yeah, well, that's right.

[25:21] Adam Stocker: Like I think that's what makes sense. I mean, right? Like before the pandemic, we like HR just like was not a thing for Broadway. But now you're starting to see that come up. I mean, at least where I'm with who I'm working with, like he has an HR on all of the shows that are in development and are running.

[25:40] Brian Sedita: Well, that's good.

[25:41] Adam Stocker: So I'm hoping that this is like happens. I think like what I'm gathering from this conversation and the context of all of this is outside of academia and like community theater, people that work in costume shops are very removed from the community of theater. Would you agree that you felt that way?

[26:02] Adam Stocker: Yeah, definitely. And I started feeling that way. Um, like even just at the Glimmer Glass Opera Festival, like the way that that is set up is is separate, obviously, because the sets and costumes and props and paints like all need separate spaces. But even like the days that we were working, um, in the places that we were living, like we weren't necessarily all in the same place at the same time on the same day. So it was like me and the other costume makers, and that was like it.

[26:34] Brian Sedita: Like you said, you really liked the collaborative aspect of theater going into this and figured this would be the career path because you also enjoy you know sewing, right?

[26:44] Adam Stocker: Right, you know, or cutting. Sure. In this case, you're so removed, which which I don't think a lot of people realize. But I think you touched what you said at the beginning is exactly the reason why we're so removed. It's outside of academia, basically like other other like types of theater are separate from Broadway because Broadway is so commercial, and if Broadway has to be its commercial entity, it has to make money, and you do that by compartmentalizing like all of your work, because when you separate the labor, then you can exploit it more, which sounds horrible, but is exactly how you make money in a capitalist society that we live in.

[27:30] Brian Sedita: I know, right? So, like it's a really good point. So, like if you're if you're if your stitchers can't talk to the scenic makers who make more money than them, then they don't know that they're making more money, and we can't ask for a raise, right? Like, that's kind of how that works.

[27:48] Adam Stocker: And just as like a side note, side note, it costume people make the least amount of money in the industry, union or non-union. We make the least amount of money in the whole film TV uh Broadway industry.

[28:02] Brian Sedita: Why?

[28:03] Adam Stocker: I mean Because it's feminized labor. Because it's it's what is women's work, right? Uh that's in air quotes also. This is what we talked about when we had Joan Joanna Pond on the podcast.

[28:15] Brian Sedita: That's right.

[28:15] Adam Stocker: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Who has their own podcast? Dirty Laundry.

[28:19] Brian Sedita: Yeah.

[28:20] Adam Stocker: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um and in that conversation, we talked a lot about feminized labor, which, you know, up until that point, it makes sense. You know, that unfortunately has it doesn't justify it, explain behavior. But yeah, it makes sense why all of this has uh historically led to this point.

[28:41] Brian Sedita: Yeah.

[28:41] Adam Stocker: But and there's a lot of, I mean, even just like the tearing down of unions and like even throwing NAFTA into this situation and sending jobs. Uh I mean, this sounds hyper political, like sending jobs overseas, which is not necessarily what it intended to do, but is exactly what happened as a result of NAFTA. Um but like all of those things really create the setup for what it is today. And that includes like all of the fashion, so like all of the all of the old ladies that I work with who used to work in a fashion factory because of NAFTA lost their jobs and now work in the theater costume making industry. Like that's how they get here is by like is by like getting rid of their unions, getting rid of their jobs, and then kind of like there's not really anywhere for them to go. So they work at the essentially like the next best thing. Or is also a great thing. Like it's probably more fun than making the same thing every day.

[29:45] Adam Stocker: I know some of them have worked in factories where you get paid per piece instead of per hour. So it's like you have to finish X amount of garments just to make a day's worth of money. That's that's seem I mean it's it's insane, but that that reads like very outdated.

[30:01] Brian Sedita: It does read outdated, but it still exists today in New York City.

[30:05] Adam Stocker: Yeah. In in this climate, in this economy, yes.

[30:08] Brian Sedita: In this economy.

[30:11] Adam Stocker: Oh my God. I'm wearing a sweatshirt, but I'm already getting heated.

[30:16] Brian Sedita: Right. So we spoke with um a music coordinator. Her name is Christine Order. She works for six, and we learned all about what a music coordinator does, which really is kind of like the paperwork of it all, and like the payroll, you know, if if you think of it, kind of what I imagine is like similar to a company manager.

[30:33] Adam Stocker: Is that what a what did you call it? Costume coordinator.

[30:37] Brian Sedita: Costume coordinators are like what is that?

[30:39] Adam Stocker: That's a great question. I actually think that the union has that as like a specific thing. But when I was a costume coordinator, it was not on a union job. And it was basically like basically like assembling pieces that already existed into like a cohesive show. Um, and then maybe like one or two builds that just like uh like I wanted or needed. Um, but but otherwise I was just coordinating outfits to be like cohesive. I wasn't designing anything right because it was already there.

[31:17] Brian Sedita: A couple of my professors at the time like went back and forth on like you should say this, you shouldn't say this because it implies this, but none of them, like no answer was really that good. And I'm not a designer anyway, so like having that on my resume isn't even applicable.

[31:35] Adam Stocker: Isn't it interesting what we like are told either in an educational setting, so like in school, or even as you're coming up in the industry and whatever you're doing versus like what actually happens or what or how it's set.

[31:52] Brian Sedita: I was just talking about this at work today too. Yeah, because we were like, who knew that that it would be so commercial? Like no one tells you, even like in college, it's like no one's is like no one gives a shit about you. They just want to make money. Like, why don't they just lead with that? They want to make sure you're not like going in super jaded. I don't I don't know.

[32:11] Adam Stocker: I know. I know. Well, here I am because the college wants to make money exactly.

[32:14] Brian Sedita: Yeah. Mary, what do you say? We move into our lightning round.

[32:17] Mary Dina: Yes.

[32:17] Brian Sedita: What is one thing in the theater industry that confuses you?

[32:21] Adam Stocker: Who gets paid what and how? That's the most confusing thing.

[32:25] Brian Sedita: What are three adjectives that describe your ideal working environment?

[32:29] Adam Stocker: Humorous, casual, moderate speed.

[32:33] Brian Sedita: Does that count as one?

[32:35] Adam Stocker: I'll out.

[32:38] Brian Sedita: Is there something in your process that you find unique to you?

[32:41] Adam Stocker: No, I often feel just a little robotic. Um, and that I just do do a process like a machine.

[32:48] Brian Sedita: Are there any um like resources, books, podcasts, anything that that has really helped you in in your own career that you might like recommend to someone?

[32:58] Adam Stocker: Yeah, well, we already talked about Dirty Laundry, the podcast, um, which which really ignited the like workers' rights fire within me, um, which is something that I've have always felt strongly about coming from like I'm from the Detroit area, which is like obviously a heavy union city with the motor industry. Um, so I've always been like workers' rights, workers' rights, workers' rights. And after listening to that, I was like, oh crap, they apply to me too. Um so I've been sort of spreading the good word on workers' rights because of that podcast. But otherwise, there's not that much, there's not like a lot of things that I found that really help me, like the only things that really help me do my job are books that explain like how to build specific things. So there's like tailoring books and dressmaking books and things like that, but I don't know the names of them offhand because they're all on a bookshelf.

[33:56] Brian Sedita: That's all right. Actually, follow-up question to this lightning round. Um would you say that you've learned the most in your career by actually doing and like learning from your environment versus like what you learned in school?

[34:13] Adam Stocker: Definitely. This is like such a hands-on job that it's like and I luckily came to the job with like a lot of knowledge from undergrad because we did not have a grad school. Um, so like I was doing a lot of the labor and my costume cohorts were doing a lot of the labor. So we left with a lot of um experience, but it still was like uh just enough to get me started, and then and then so much learning on the job happens, and that includes like like learning other languages so you can properly communicate with stitchers.

[34:54] Brian Sedita: What is one job in the theater industry that you would trade jobs with for one week?

[34:59] Adam Stocker: Um, I would totally trade jobs with a lighting designer. I don't know why. I think I think because in my head, they just get to sit and be like, that looks great, and then they like beep boop beep up into a computer sometimes. Like, okay. I've actually in undergrad did do some uh not like master electrician work, but just like general lighting design plot. Like I've made a plot and I made it happen like in fake. Um and it was it was actually not too bad. I had some fun.

[35:34] Brian Sedita: What is one hobby you have outside of the theater industry?

[35:37] Adam Stocker: Is going to the beach a hobby? Because I do that more than more than everything else I do. I don't know, laying on the couch and watching movies. Like that's I'm big into like only relaxing.

[35:50] Brian Sedita: Really hard-hitting question. Dunkin' Donuts or Starbucks?

[35:55] Adam Stocker: Starbucks.

[35:56] Brian Sedita: We're gonna be sending you Starbucks because for all the listeners out there, we this is the second time we're recording this episode. Adam was kind enough to come back and do this again for us because technical difficulties led to a trashed episode because it just never it never recorded.

[36:16] Adam Stocker: I came crawling back on my hands and knees begging.

[36:20] Brian Sedita: Are you kidding?

[36:23] Adam Stocker: Well, we're very happy to have you back.

[36:25] Brian Sedita: All that being said, we're we're very happy.

[36:27] Adam Stocker: Yeah, we're very very grateful.

[36:29] Brian Sedita: But now the actual last question is what was the last great piece of theater that you saw?

[36:35] Adam Stocker: Oh boy. I I I would love to know what I said last time, but I think I'm just gonna say Hades Town.

[36:42] Brian Sedita: Well, can you tell everybody how we can find you on the gram, the site, all those those fun things?

[36:48] Adam Stocker: My website, which is not super updated, is theboycostumer.com. And my Instagram, which is more updated, is TheBoy Costume.

[36:59] Brian Sedita: All one word, all lowercase, not the Instagram cares, but I have to say, from a marketing standpoint, I really appreciate the branding.

[37:07] Adam Stocker: I mean, as much as it matches on the Instagram and the website as much as a bit of a.

[37:16] Brian Sedita: Yeah, it really does.

[37:18] Adam Stocker: Well, thank you again so much. Um, we so appreciate you again for coming on.

[37:24] Brian Sedita: The second time of course.

[37:26] Adam Stocker: And we've totally perfected this time.

[37:28] Brian Sedita: Yeah, this is amazing.

[37:30] Adam Stocker: This was streamlined and streamlined the conversations. Packaged with a bow for everybody.

[37:35] Brian Sedita: Thanks everyone for listening to this episode of Page to Stage. To keep up with us, you can find us on Instagram and Facebook at Page2Stage Podcast. And if you're enjoying these conversations, we would really appreciate it if you could take a couple minutes to rate and review us wherever you're listening to this podcast. Until next time. That's Brian. That's Mary. We'll see you later. Bye.