This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Quincy Brown: My podcast started in the summer, which was lovely. Like I said, it was a bit of a lifeline. It gave me purpose, it gave me focus, and also to speak to like-minded people about what they're going through and also talk about positive things. You're so personal with everybody. It's really great.

[0:15] Kevin Bianchi: Thanks very much. I'm glad I came today.

[0:22] Quincy Brown: My name's Quincy.

[0:23] Kevin Bianchi: My name's Kevin.

[0:24] Quincy Brown: And this is Sentimental Men.

[0:26] Kevin Bianchi: But keep your thumb away from that skip button.

[0:29] Quincy Brown: We're here to talk.

[0:30] Kevin Bianchi: And maybe scream.

[0:31] Quincy Brown: About our favorite women in musical theater.

[0:39] Kevin Bianchi: Quincy.

[0:40] Quincy Brown: Kevin.

[0:41] Kevin Bianchi: It's time. It's time for everyone in the audience to cry because that is going to start playing.

[0:49] Quincy Brown: Yeah, last episode.

[0:51] Kevin Bianchi: We're here. We did it. We talked to a hundred Elphabas about this show that we love.

[0:57] Quincy Brown: Honestly, as we come to the end of this kind of framework and narrative that we have spun, I think it's like really crazy to look back and be like, wow, we really did the thing. I texted you this morning. I was looking at...

[1:11] Kevin Bianchi: Oh my god. Yeah, I didn't respond. Sorry.

[1:13] Quincy Brown: We'll talk about that later. But I was looking at this Google Doc we have that has all of our guests written out in a list. And I was like, who the fuck do we think we are? Really and truly. And it's like kind of... I think when we were first starting this, we were putting down all these names. And I'm like, yeah, it's good to dream big. But I think in the back of my mind, I was like, this isn't going to actually come to fruition.

[1:34] Kevin Bianchi: We've said this a hundred times on here, but this whole experience has truly exceeded any expectation that I had. And I think especially because we set out to just do this to have something fun to do and like something a little escapist to do.

[1:49] Quincy Brown: Yeah. And it sounds so cliché and like to say, but it's like the listeners and like just seeing what you guys have to say about every episode we release and interacting with you guys, I think has been really fun and made this whole experience so much more enjoyable. So thank you to you all for listening.

[2:09] Kevin Bianchi: We're talking like this is it, but like we're not going away anytime soon. This is by no means it. It's just this is it for that initial, I think, framework and timeline that we established when we started all of this.

[2:22] Quincy Brown: Yeah. This is the big check mark. All the like sticky emotional stuff out of the way. Today, we have a very, very exciting guest.

[2:32] Kevin Bianchi: How many times are we going to say we have an exciting guest?

[2:35] Quincy Brown: Every time because it's true.

[2:36] Kevin Bianchi: It is true.

[2:37] Quincy Brown: Once more for the road, say it. We have an exciting guest today.

[2:43] Kevin Bianchi: Buckle up for this resume rundown.

[2:45] Quincy Brown: Ooh.

[2:46] Kevin Bianchi: So this actress made her stage debut as the Eliza understudy in the West End.

[2:52] Quincy Brown: Yeah, that's right. West End. You guys have been asking for a West End alphabet. You're getting one.

[2:56] Kevin Bianchi: And the West End production of My Fair Lady. She then went on to play Meat in the 2002 West End production of We Will Rock You.

[3:03] Quincy Brown: Yes. Originated.

[3:05] Kevin Bianchi: She toured the UK as Ellen in Miss Saigon, then went into the West End production of Les Miserables as Fantine.

[3:16] Quincy Brown: I love saying that.

[3:18] Kevin Bianchi: In 2006, stood by for Mother Elphaba Idina Menzel in the West End production of Wicked. Took over from Idina in 2007, making her the first Brit to play the role of Elphaba full time.

[3:33] Quincy Brown: Then she went to Broadway with Wicked.

[3:37] Kevin Bianchi: Then she came back to the West End production of Wicked.

[3:42] Quincy Brown: Then... Guys, I'm exhausted.

[3:47] Kevin Bianchi: She did the Royal Albert Hall concert production of Chess.

[3:51] Quincy Brown: Which she did while she was doing Wicked, right?

[3:54] Kevin Bianchi: I think she was still in performances of that, but I could be wrong.

[3:58] Quincy Brown: 2010, West End production of Oliver as Nancy. 2014, went back to Wicked as an emergency replacement.

[4:07] Kevin Bianchi: Our guest today saved the day.

[4:09] Quincy Brown: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Our guest today saved the day. Coming back in 2014 to take over as Elphaba.

[4:15] Kevin Bianchi: Which, fun fact, Emma Hatton had to cover like two weeks in between. I was a high school student on a class trip in London because we had just performed. I just performed Anthony and Sweeney Todd at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. And then we went to London and all of my classmates went to go see Les Mis. And I told my director, I was like, no, wait, I'm not going to see Les Mis. I'm actually going to see Wicked. I will go alone, but I'm not going to do Les Mis. I'll buy my own ticket and everything.

[4:47] Quincy Brown: And they were like, you can't go alone. So he said if I could get a group of five people to go with me, then I could go.

[4:54] Kevin Bianchi: And I convinced five people to come with me. But it was during that period between Idina Menzel and Kerry Ellis and I got Emma Hatton, who was fantastic.

[5:03] Quincy Brown: Well, the guest is Kerry Ellis.

[5:08] Kevin Bianchi: Yes, we're talking to Kerry Ellis today.

[5:11] Quincy Brown: Yes, and not to exclude it because we love a Grizabella. In 2015, Kerry Ellis took over for Nicole Scherzinger in the West End production of Cats.

[5:22] Kevin Bianchi: Yes. I feel like we just spent one hour reading out her resume.

[5:25] Quincy Brown: I know she's going to be joining us in like two seconds. So, Quincy, I know that you love that recording of Chess.

[5:34] Kevin Bianchi: I love that recording of Chess.

[5:38] Quincy Brown: And you love Chess, right?

[5:40] Kevin Bianchi: I love Chess, too.

[5:41] Quincy Brown: Yeah, no matter who is singing it, I'm into it.

[5:44] Kevin Bianchi: OK, Kevin, Miss Ellis is going to be here so soon. Do we have time to do a Stuck on SJB?

[5:49] Quincy Brown: Do I have time to do a Stuck on SJB?

[5:56] Kevin Bianchi: Yes, there is this video on YouTube and she sings Children Will Listen from Into the Woods. It's like by no means like the flashiest video of her ever. But I love Into the Woods. I think Next to Wicked, Into the Woods is my favorite musical. So I love that.

[6:13] Quincy Brown: I would love Stephanie J. Block as the witch.

[6:16] Kevin Bianchi: I'm more of a baker's wife for SJB. Sebastian and her as the baker and the baker's wife together would be so good.

[6:25] Quincy Brown: Anyways, so the song sounds so easy in Stephanie's voice. And what I love is that I love any like concert performance of this song, because in the show, in the context of Into the Woods, you don't get that in the show. Like you never get a witch who gets to be like, Children will listen, like it's never going to happen.

[6:44] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah. Also, Stephanie J. Block's soprano on that last flip of Children will listen is ridiculous. I am like newly kind of like taking a deep dive into her soprano because I think it's so lovely.

[7:05] Quincy Brown: There's another stuck on SJB that I almost did for you today. The Think of Me.

[7:12] Kevin Bianchi: Yes.

[7:13] Quincy Brown: Yeah, that's good. Think of Me, which funny, my friend Chad, who's probably listening right now, recorded like that's his video on YouTube. But yeah, so that's my stuck on SJB. Children will listen just as the children are listening to this podcast.

[7:29] Kevin Bianchi: I got to look at that video. I don't think I've seen it or I haven't seen it in a while. It's not fresh in my noggin.

[7:36] Quincy Brown: I'm texting it to you.

[7:38] Kevin Bianchi: Thank you.

[7:38] Quincy Brown: As we speak.

[7:43] Kerry Ellis: I think what's nice about podcasts is it's a friendly, it feels like a very friendly space. People just having a chat. And I really enjoy that. And when I listen to podcasts, that's what I love. You feel like the third person in the room or the fourth person in the room. People just having a chat. And it's what we need right now because nobody can get together. So we need to be close and feel like we can interact.

[8:05] Quincy Brown: Yeah, definitely. We start every conversation with when did you first discover Wicked as an entity, like as a show, not necessarily as an actress going in for this part?

[8:17] Kerry Ellis: Yeah, so I wasn't, I'm a bit behind with those kind of things. I'm not the typical girl that knows whatever show's coming out, knows all the songs. I'm not that, I'm not that girl. And I was doing, I was doing Miss Saigon at the time. I remember vividly. And one of the other actors in the show said to me, oh my God, you know, you should be in Wicked. And I was like, well, I didn't even know about it. I know in Eves, like, oh, it's opened on Broadway. It's amazing. You know, you'd be fantastic. So that was kind of it. I didn't really think about it. And then he kept singing the songs to me, like backstage. And like, as he was flying past me in the corridor, he would just like sing a bit of Popular or sing a bit of Gravity.

And I was like, what is this show all about? So I, this is how long ago it was. I bought the album and that was kind of it, that I left it there. I didn't, I probably listened through the album maybe once or twice and left it. And then I heard it was coming to London. And literally, within a few weeks, I got called up for an audition. And then I thought, oh, I really need to get myself, my head around this music now.

[9:21] Quincy Brown: And was there buzz around it when it was coming to London as this like Broadway juggernaut?

[9:25] Kerry Ellis: There was, but not in the same way as it was on Broadway. There was, but I would say it was from more, you know, musical theatre supporters, like proper musical theatre geeks kind of thing. You know, we didn't really know about it. We knew it was a spinoff from The Wizard of Oz. That's all we knew. And then obviously the audition started to happen. And I think when that was starting to happen, word was getting out a little bit more. I started to learn a bit of the music and started to go in for these auditions and start, I happened to sing like Defying Gravity two or three times in an audition. And I was like, why are they making me do it so many times? You know, I don't get it. I'm not really doing anything different.

But obviously now I know because of doing the show, how, why they made me do it three times. But yeah, that was kind of it, really. My introduction was, it wasn't like that show I grew up listening to, or like Les Mis was, that I wanted to be in when I, you know, that show I want to be in when I grow up. It wasn't that at all. It was something new. And I think that was what the beauty of it was, that I didn't know about it. And then it was this new big show that was coming over. And then I got to discover it. I got to discover it in the rehearsal room, really. I didn't even see it. I didn't go to Broadway and see it. I didn't, you know, I was learning from Joe Mantello in the room. And that was exciting. That was really exciting.

[10:42] Quincy Brown: Yeah. So can you talk to us about the audition process and then getting to originate in the West End production? When you initially went in, did you know that it was for standby?

[10:51] Kerry Ellis: Um, when I went in for the auditions? No, I didn't. Um, I mean, I was doing, what was I doing? Les Mis, I think at the time. So I was quite happy, you know, but ironically, just before it, I auditioned for Evita that was coming to London and I really wanted it. And I had about four or five auditions for it. And then I didn't hear anything and I was gutted. But then Wicked came along and I started going in for Wicked. So it took my attention away, but I wasn't that fussed about it. It wasn't like suddenly, oh, I have to do this job. It was like, okay, well, this is opportunity. Great. Let's go along.

[11:24] Quincy Brown: Yeah.

[11:24] Kerry Ellis: So yeah, I had about seven auditions and then I remember getting the call. I was between shows in Les Mis and I was walking down Compton Street with my pin curls in my hair between that day and evening. And I remember getting the call. I don't remember on a lot of shows, but that one I do.

[11:40] Quincy Brown: At that point, I didn't know Idina was coming.

[11:43] Kerry Ellis: I found out maybe two or three weeks after that.

[11:47] Quincy Brown: So that call was Elphaba, you're opening as Elphaba in the West End production?

[11:51] Kerry Ellis: Yeah.

[11:52] Quincy Brown: And then about two or three weeks later, I got a call saying, you're still going to open, but you're not going to open first.

[12:00] Kerry Ellis: I was like, well, maybe that doesn't mean I'm opening the show.

[12:04] Quincy Brown: Yeah. What were your feelings about that?

[12:06] Kerry Ellis: Well, for a split second, I was like, oh, this is annoying because you don't get the opportunity to create as such. However, the original girl, and I didn't really know much about Idina at this point.

[12:18] Quincy Brown: I was going to say, was she a big thing on the West End at that time?

[12:21] Kerry Ellis: No. Okay. I mean, people knew that she'd done Rent and we kind of knew who she was, but she wasn't a superstar of it. So I was like, well, fair play because if I'd have been offered the opportunity to go and open We'll Rock You on Broadway, of course I would have done it. She created it. Great. And she's coming for three months and you'll open three months later. And in the meantime, you'll be an offstage standby. You probably won't go on. And that was that. And I was kind of okay with that. I mean, the good thing that did come from it was the fact that

[12:52] Kerry Ellis: I did come over for those three months, allowed me to be her exchange to then go back to do the Broadway. Yeah, which was great. So actually, in the bigger picture, it was brilliant.

[13:02] Quincy Brown: And was that exchange something that was discussed in the very beginning, or I have to imagine that came about later?

[13:07] Kerry Ellis: A lot later. I mean, I'd been doing the show maybe four or five months. And I remember Joe Mantello going, do you want to come and do it on Broadway? I was like, hang on a minute, let me think about that for a second. And it all happened quite quickly. Before I knew it, I was kind of finishing on the Saturday in London. And I was literally on a plane on the Sunday and in rehearsals for a week on the Monday straight into the show, like four days into the show. It was chaos. It was mental.

[13:38] Quincy Brown: Do you feel like that momentum kind of helped you? Like, was it a kind of thing where you're like, okay, I don't have time to be overwhelmed by this or intimidated because I just have to like, get on the plane, go to rehearsal, go to the costume fitting and get into the show?

[13:46] Kerry Ellis: Yes and no. I mean, I think what I found difficult was actually the consistency of doing the show eight times a week. I've never sung anything quite like that before. I don't think it should be an eight show a week. I think it should be a six, you know, it's almost like a trophy that they don't want to change. And I think it's a big shame because they get better shows from people for it. So yeah, what I found difficult was just the repetitiveness of singing it and doing it eight times a week. So I went through ups and downs with it. You know, I went through periods of time where I could smash it out for three months and then for two months, I could do like four or five, six shows. And then I go back to my three months just banging it out. You know, it was it was mentally tough. But when you're on it and you're doing it, it's like no other show. It's just it's magical. It really is.

[14:40] Quincy Brown: So can we backtrack a little and can you talk about what it was like opening the West End production and what that rehearsal process was like, especially being that they brought in Idina. Were you watching her in rehearsal? Was there something magic about like, oh, I'm getting to watch the original girl do her thing and rehearse the show?

[14:53] Kerry Ellis: Yes and no. I mean, I wasn't around massively when she was in the room because we would be taken off. Like so myself and Anneli Bicci, who was the Glinda standby, we would be off rehearsing in other rooms. We would watch. Of course we would watch. And it was great to watch Joe direct and do his thing and be part of listening to all of that information, which was great. And also we did get chances when, say, Idina was off for a costume fitting or going off to do a vocal or whatever. I would step in and do bits and pieces, which was great. It was a bit stop-starty because I'd not really done that before of that level. So for me, it was almost a bit like being like waiting, you know, a bit kind of like I felt like I was just waiting to do my job.

But it was great. I mean, there was a buzz with her being here and she was great. And we got on and she was lovely and she was brilliant at the job. And it was great to watch her do that, which was fine. But then I don't like to be too influenced by who I'm going to take over.

[16:02] Quincy Brown: And especially because this had been the first time you covered since My Fair Lady, right? At that point.

[16:06] Kerry Ellis: Yeah. And My Fair Lady, I was a swing. I was a swing and I was a cover. So I was kind of on all the time. I was doing all those rehearsals and I was I didn't really go off the stage. And then obviously when I got on for Eliza, that that was a whole other level. But there were very different things because My Fair Lady was my was my first West End job and I wasn't employed to take over. I was never employed to be the role. Whereas for Wicked, I was employed to do the role and then to stand by was just a bit like, oh, this is I don't know, I'd have almost preferred to wait three months and then just come in.

[16:41] Quincy Brown: Yeah. Especially because at that point you had been working and booking principal roles.

[16:46] Kerry Ellis: Yeah. Right. Did I see that they did a special reopening for you when you took over full time?

[16:52] Kerry Ellis: Yeah, they did. I mean, it was it was mental. They did this big kind of press night and massive party. And I mean, it was crazy. But by that time, I'd already been on a couple of times because obviously, you know, Idina was there for three months. She's going to go off. So I'd been on a few times. But then that was good. It gave me a bit of a warm up. It gave me also a bit of a preview, if you like, before the press came in. So that was that was good.

[17:19] Quincy Brown: Yeah. So something that Kevin and I wanted to talk about is the accent situation with Wicked. I like it as a situation. Just because I think especially when you were going to Broadway, that was one of the first times that they have done like an international switcheroo. So first, let's talk about how was the okay, you're going to need to do an American accent presented to you. And then let's talk about how did you do an accent when you were standing by for Idina? Or were you doing a British accent on the West End as a standby?

[17:43] Kerry Ellis: In London, I was British because everybody, everybody else in the cast was British. When I went to Broadway, I didn't know that I was going to have to do an American accent until literally, I got into rehearsals because she obviously came and did her American accent. So I was like, well, great. Well, surely I'm going to that's the whole point. And then I get to rehearsals. And they looked at me and they kind of just like, I thought you're going to do an American accent. I was like, okay, stop it. Well, that's fine. That's fine. That's no problem. But I didn't think I was going to have to do that. I thought that, and they were like, well, no, it's, it's, it's wicked on Broadway. It's got to be American.

You should be like, that's not my understanding. You know what, to be fair, it, it wasn't too much of a shift. It was okay. What was tricky was I got into this kind of routine of the accent and that was great. And actually in some aspects, it's a lot easier to sing in, in America. I mean, it's written for an American. So it's like how you sing the vowels are easier. And they're like a wider, easier twang if you're in an American accent. So if we're doing them in English, they're, they're, they're a little bit harder to, to, to make sound English. If that sound, if that's any good, like when we say things like, well, the Glinda has to kind of say popular. She can't go popular. She has to go popular.

So silly things like that. And it sits in popular, you know, it sits better. And things like defying gravity, we have to go defying gravity. So that's all fine. But when I came back, I had this hybrid because of course the English lot wanted me to get rid of the American accent. So I was all over the shop. I was kind of like, I was this hybrid. It was interesting, but you know, I quite enjoy a challenge. I quite like being, it makes me buzz.

[19:39] Quincy Brown: Did you have an American accent down prior to doing Wicked on Broadway?

[19:45] Kerry Ellis: Well, I thought so, but you know, Lisa, who was amazing. She was obviously our resident and the associate director. She's fantastic. She would occasionally come in and give me a few little notes on a few vowels and stuff. But again, I think it's easier when you're surrounded by an American cast to do an accent. It's, it's, if I was going to be the only person there, I think that would be harder. That's interesting. I love that.

[20:02] Quincy Brown: So there's an infamous audio of your lift accident in Defying Gravity.

[20:07] Kerry Ellis: Yes.

[20:09] Quincy Brown: And Kerry, let me say, it sounds terrifying. Like it sounds so serious.

[20:15] Kerry Ellis: It does. It sounds really bad. I mean, it sounds a lot worse than it was, I think.

[20:19] Quincy Brown: I was going to say, can you walk us through what actually happened? Cause I think we're all going off of this audio where it's like, Oh my God, she sounds scared for her life.

[20:26] Kerry Ellis: Well, I mean, I, I mean, it was a real reaction. I'm actually really quite a laid back down to earth person. I'm not dramatic. I'm not hyper. And I'm also really physically confident. Like, as in, I'm not frightened of heights. I'm not frightened to be, you know, I wasn't frightened on the lift. I wasn't, those things don't worry me. But this one night you're about to sing the big bit of the song and you, and I've done it a million times and you run around and you, you get in the, the arm, you clip yourself in, but you can't get out of the arm. So once you're in, you're in and it moves forward and then it moves up and then it moves like out again, it started to move forward. And then it almost felt like it tipped the wrong way.

It felt like it was kind of pushing me into the stage, like forward, forward. So I was kind of, and you can't get out of it cause you're all stood on a little platform. So I'm, I'm trying to move and I'm trying to get out of it. I'm going, I can't move. I can't move. I can't move and nothing's happening. And then I'm like, I'm panicking because all I'm just getting pushed into the stage. So I'm kind of going up. I'm not going to fight this mechanical arm. So I'm just like, I can't get out. I can't get out. No one can hear you. And then obviously you're on mic. So then I kind of had to shout something. So they then stopped the show, which is mortifying. And somebody releases you from the contraption and you know, we could come out.

But I mean, it just sounded a lot worse because obviously my mic was up. I mean, there's also another one that's quite, I mean, I don't know if you found it, but there's one about me. I come off and I'm shouting about something. I couldn't even tell you what it was, but somebody has put like subtitles on it to say something about like, I wanted to throw pins at somebody in the front row, which makes me how, because I must've come off going something, something, something, pin, pin, pin. Somebody like subtitled it saying about me wanting to throw pins at someone in the front row. And it's just the funniest thing. I'm glad to know that it's not as chaotic as it sounds. You hear about lots of people in shows with automation that do hurt themselves.

And that does flash through your mind that, Oh God, please don't make me break my legs. You know, cause you feel so comfortable and we, and we work in a very dangerous place and we do get over familiar and over comfortable. And it's those moments that kind of bring it back. You remember. And even to have something, an accident like that happen in front of a live audience, I feel like adds another layer to the trauma.

[22:46] Quincy Brown: On the note of Defying Gravity, let's talk about your Look to the Western Sky. Because your growl on Look. So I took a deep dive cause I was like, when did this growl start? And it feels like it started when you were standing by.

[22:58] Kerry Ellis: It did start then. This is really funny because I guess prior to Wicked, I wasn't really aware of the obsession with different. And for me, I used to do this thing in We Will Rock You, in No One But You. And it kind of had this rasp to it. It had this kind of rocky growl. And I don't even know who named it the growl. I couldn't even tell you. And it used to be on there's a face at the window and I growl living my best Bonnie Tyler life, you know, yes, rasping and riff, you know, I'm not a riffer. So for me, it's about the rock element. And I don't really know where it came from on Wicked. The Look to the Western Sky thing. I don't know where it came from. It was an emotional thing. It just laid emphasis for me.

And it gave power to the, you know, so if you care to find me, look to the West bloody Western sky, you know, you'll find me there. And then, you know, you start to read things, you start to see social media and start to see people going, put the growling, put the growling. I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about. We talk about the ground. I don't really look at what I do with that. So when people point it out to you, it's, it's funny. It's a funny thing.

[24:03] Quincy Brown: Well, I think it's interesting because, you know, Wicked has turned into this whole thing now where it's like, Oh, what are these choices? What are these riffs that the Elphabas are doing? But at the time you were doing it, like you were going off of Idina, you know, essentially, and it's like Idina wasn't doing that. So it's almost more impressive to be making vocal choices in the early days.

[24:19] Kerry Ellis: I had to bring myself to it. You know, I had to bring my, how was my Elphaba true to me and me, my Elphaba was, was a bit rocky, a bit raw. And for me, that's how it spoke. So that was just, that's all it was. And then I think a lot of the riffs came later from other people, especially in London, you know, the riff kind of craziness came later.

[24:43] Quincy Brown: Yeah. So you went to Broadway, then you came back to the West End and finished that contract, I think in 2009, and then returned five years later in 2014.

[24:53] Kerry Ellis: I did. Yeah.

[24:54] Quincy Brown: What was the initial reaction when you got that call?

[24:56] Kerry Ellis: My initial reaction was no, because I thought, I don't think I can do it again. I'm five years older. I've had a baby. I've got married. I have a six month old. I'm not sleeping. I'm not. And also it was so loaded because I'd had such an amazing time when I left the show. I mean that I'll never forget that night. It was unbelievable. It's like being at a rock concert, the crowd, the energy, the performances. And it was so special. And I'd kind of tied up that time, you know, I'd done London, I'd done Broadway and had an amazing time. So for me to come in again, I just was like, Oh, what if I can't do it? What if I don't have the same experience? What if I can't sing it like I used to sing it? You know, all those demons. But then Michael McCabe spoke to me. He was the producer in London. It was like, look,

[25:45] Kerry Ellis: This is the situation. We've got Willemijn, who's a phenomenal singer. I mean, she's a brilliant artist. She damaged her back, and she was going to have to come out of the show three or four months early. And I think that they were so concerned about it being a negative thing that they wanted to put a positive spin on it. And Michael came to me and said, look, I want this to be a celebration. I want Willemijn to be able to go and rest and come back to the show when she can with no pressure. And I want to make something of it. You know, let's make it a celebration as opposed to somebody's injured themselves and is going to have to take some time off. A buzzy moment. Yeah. Well, I hope I can live up to your expectation and do it again.

But I did love it. I mean, I must admit, I did love it. I was gonna say, so then that's added pressure even to you're returning this role after you've done it. And now they're like, you are the excitement. But to be fair, it was pretty amazing. I mean, it just sold out. It just went mental. Those three months was just, you know, the box office was mental. The reaction was great. And I had a great time. So I'm grateful to it. Terry, I cried when that was announced.

[26:58] Quincy Brown: So did I. I knew that I was going to London on a school trip. And I was like, I think the dates line up. It didn't. I got like, I think the time in between you and Willemijn. But yeah, I was so excited.

[27:13] Kerry Ellis: Oh, no, it was good. It was good. And you know, Wicked has a very special place in my heart. I mean, I don't think I'd go back again if they called me. I'm far too old. But I think, you know, it was nice to have that glimpse of it again, I think. And was it like a walk in the park to do again? Or? It was interesting because I thought to myself, oh, I know it. I got this. You know, I did it for so long. I can just step into it. What was weird about it was I was kind of fine with the songs that I, you know, I've been singing Gravity because you're doing concerts and that's fine. The songs were kind of all right. I didn't have a clue about No Good Deed. I couldn't have told you that spell. But I didn't know any of the dialogue.

It was so bizarre. And I almost had to sit down and learn it like I did the first time around. But once I kind of got myself around the dialogue, once I went into the rehearsal room, it was really strange because my body would just move in the right. I mean, muscle memory, yes, is phenomenal, but it was so bizarre. It was like my body would just move without my brain and getting in gear to move that way. It was so bizarre.

[28:13] Quincy Brown: That's fascinating.

[28:14] Kerry Ellis: But once it did kind of click, it all just came flooding back. And it was like, you know, putting on an old pair of shoes and going, yeah, you feel a bit different, but I'm good. I know where we're going. We're all right. Yeah, we got this.

[28:26] Quincy Brown: I can't imagine. That's so cool. And I love what you were saying about how the flip to turn something that could be a sad or scary occasion into such an exciting moment of like Britain's mother Elphaba returns. Like that is...

[28:39] Kerry Ellis: It was cool.

[28:40] Quincy Brown: Yeah. So we want to talk to you about For Good. But before we do, Quincy and I play this little game with all of our guests where we have a little bit of a theory that every Elphaba or every performance of Elphaba can be classified as either a The Wizard and I Elphaba, a Defying Gravity Elphaba, or a No Good Deed Elphaba. Did you feel any way about any of those three?

[29:01] Kerry Ellis: Predominantly it would probably be No Good Deed because I used to enjoy singing that the most. There was no like tricky bit in it that would throw me off or there was no, I could just sing it and I just enjoyed singing it. And I liked the, you know, the show was a little bit like that. You know, it was an amazing, it was a real double edged sword. You know, it was the most amazing job in the world, but the most, the toughest job by far I've ever done. So it kind of had, you know, this turmoil, which I liked about it. And the song has that. So I guess No Good Deed. And vocally No Good Deed was the easiest.

[29:36] Quincy Brown: Yeah. But I don't sing it now, ironically.

[29:39] Kerry Ellis: It's a hard song out of context.

[29:41] Quincy Brown: It doesn't. And everyone wants you to sing Gravity and that's fine. I'm okay with that. I don't mind singing it now I'm not in the show.

[29:47] Kerry Ellis: When you can rest.

[29:48] Quincy Brown: Yeah.

[29:49] Kerry Ellis: Okay. So we've been working our way through Wicked, section by section, and a different actress has joined us for each part. You are the final actress in this whole narrative we're spinning. So to kind of get us into For Good, you know, this is one of the songs from the show that I think has kind of broached the mainstream in the sense where like, even like non-theater people know it, people sing it at their school graduations. It's kind of permeated just general culture. Why do you think that is?

[30:14] Kerry Ellis: Well, the message, I mean, the message of the song is all about friendship and you go through highs and lows and struggles and, but your friendship still remains, you know, that bond that you make and it does speak outside the show, it stands alone. It resonates and ironically, because it's one of the more simple songs, you know, everybody goes for Gravity or Wizard and I or, you know, the big songs, but For Good is quite a simple song, but it probably has the most powerful message. It's a song that I've sung lots since I've left and I love it and you can go anywhere around the world and sing it and people still respond to it. I mean, I was in Japan a couple of years ago and they were all singing along.

I couldn't believe it. People know this song and it's testament to Stephen Schwartz because, you know, he knows how to land a song. I mean, he's written a ton of musicals, but this one, I mean, these songs just hit home with people. They really do resonate and For Good is exactly that. You know, people have played it at all different places, their weddings, their funerals, their, you know, their, all these special moments and it's an incredibly powerful song.

[31:24] Quincy Brown: Yeah, and I think the simplicity that you're talking about is part of what makes it so versatile in how people use it in real life because it's, you know, if you're a teenager and you're listening to this song, it's all about like, oh, this is my best friend and we have this great relationship. But then as you get a little older, it's like you and you know what it's like to part ways with somebody, then like that adds another layer to it. And that comes from that simplicity that you're talking about.

[31:45] Kerry Ellis: Yeah, it's a simple message. I mean, the song is actually quite complex, really, but the simplicity of the message, I think, is what Wicked is all about, really. I mean, Wicked is all about relationships and it resonates with so many different people because it's kind of inclusive of everybody in every way. And I think that's why it's so successful.

[32:08] Quincy Brown: And kind of on that same note, Kevin and I were talking about how the song, of all the songs in Wicked, this one feels like as an actress, if maybe you personally are going through something a little more emotional at that point, the song, I have to imagine, would hit differently in performance.

[32:24] Kerry Ellis: Yeah, I mean, it wasn't, you didn't have to try very hard with this song, I think. You know, even on a day when you're buzzing and life is good and everything's great, you still run that marathon and you've still ended it with a really close friend. And looking at that person is always a moment. And again, I've sung it in various different places with various different people. And I did actually get to sing it with Kristen Chenoweth before I went back into London, I think. She was doing a tour and she came to London and did the Albert Hall. And the timing couldn't have been more spot on, because I was just about to announce that I was coming in exactly for that time when Willemijn and Tarsel. And so I got up with Kristen and we sang that. And then we kind of announced that I was going back into the show. So again, that was amazing to sing it with her and then to announce that I was coming back into the show. So it has a lot of meaning for me, too.

[33:21] Quincy Brown: Does the chemistry you have with your Glinda partner affect the performance of the song at all?

[33:25] Kerry Ellis: Oh, massively. Yeah, massively. I think so. I'm a very responsive actress, I think, you know, some people can just do their thing regardless of who's around them. But I'm very feeding off who's around me. And that's why I love it when covers go on or swings go on or because it's always different. You get a different energy and it brings something else new out in you. And that excites me a lot. So yeah, it does. It massively changes. And some people you will click with, some people you won't. You have to work it out in this show because you just have to get on with your other because there's just no choice. I mean, I was lucky because I've had great people and it's never really been a problem. So yeah, all of my Glindas have been lovely.

[34:08] Quincy Brown: Vocally, does For Good feel like kind of a cool down? Like if No Good Deed is that kind of last lap of the marathon is For Good kind of like, okay, let's relax.

[34:14] Kerry Ellis: I used to find For Good really difficult. Really? Because I'm such a belter. I'm not very good at kind of mixing and holding back. It's like all or nothing for me. So I would be so, you know, belted so much that I had no mix by the end of the show. So For Good, all the kind of soft stuff was gone. I found it really difficult to then kind of mix that at the end. And I would find that really difficult. And also the first time I went into the show, I was a lot younger and I didn't know my voice as well as I know it now. I just didn't know how to navigate around that bit.

[34:49] Quincy Brown: That's interesting. So it would stress me because I knew we were done. It would stress me out because I was like, I've got no mix. All right, if I'm going to find this hard, I'd be all right at the beginning of the week, but towards the end of the week, it would be like...

[35:02] Kerry Ellis: Yeah. So how did your relationship change? Because you have such a long history with Wicked. Did your relationship with the role and this song in particular change over time?

[35:13] Kerry Ellis: Absolutely. I think just when I came back and I did it for that last time in 2014, I just had a much bigger perspective on the role and the show itself. I was more in control of myself and what was going on around me. I knew what it was. I knew how to play that game. I knew where to save myself. The first time I was always kind of, you know, I was always finding my feet. I mean, even though I was doing it for two years, things were always changing. So I would always something would change and I wouldn't blow my voice out or I would get to the end and be like, why don't I have any voice today? I was really, you know, it was a constant change constantly. But when I came back, I just think I was just more mature with it. I knew what was going on. And I also had had five years of different things going on. You know, I'd come out of theatre a little bit. I'd done a lot more music. I'd done my own shows and touring. So I had a different outlook.

[36:09] Quincy Brown: Well, that's interesting what you say, because I kind of equivalent you and Shoshana Bean in the same kind of sphere. I feel like we've had like parallel lives on the other side of the pond. Exactly. Like you really both like you're the first replacements and you both are so respected in the theatre community, but also kind of branched out and did your own solo recording artist thing and are very respected for that as well.

[36:27] Kerry Ellis: I love her. She came on my, I think season one of my podcast and we chatted and I said, I feel like we're kindred spirits. I feel like we've just, you know, been on the other side of the pond and one day we will come together and sing and that'll be great. I love her. I think she's great. And I really respect what she does. You know, I think she's again, she's really open minded and she does theatre, but she does her own thing and she's great. She really is. And I think the two mix well. I think you bring certain aspects of like, you know, your music to your theatre and likewise your theatre to your music. I think it's a good confidence.

[37:02] Quincy Brown: Yeah. Speaking of your love for Shoshana, which we share in, I feel like we can't really talk about For Good and this like sentiment of relationships and caring for one another without bringing up this seemingly sorority of former Elphabas. So what is it like to be, first of all, welcomed into that? And then how is that something that you through the years have, have kind of kept up and, you know, reached out to the new girls and things like that? Especially since you're the first British Elphaba.

[37:25] Kerry Ellis: Yeah. You know what? It's really funny because absolutely there is that. There really is. And I think it's because of how hard it is and what comes with that role, what comes with that responsibility, the expectation, the weight, the fans, the social media, you know, there's so much that isn't just the show, you know, just getting through the show. And there is a lot of weight that comes with it. And I think when I was, when I was in London, it was just me because obviously Dina went home. So it's just me. Wow. Yeah. That's interesting. I went to America when I flew into New York and I was actually, I don't know if I'd opened or I was in rehearsals. Julia Murney reached out to me and I don't, I didn't really know her.

And she dropped me an email and said, you know, Hey, I'm Julia. I'm just reaching out to say, I'm here. I know you're here on your own. I know what you're doing. And sent me this wonderful email. I went to see her in her show that she was doing that time. And it, it massively helped to have that just person reach out and go, I'm here. I've been through it. I understand it's okay. And if you...

[39:37] Quincy Brown: Where can people find you online, Kerry?