This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Quincy Brown: I asked Stephen Arimus one time before it ever went on. When I go on like, is there a way that we could like have different keys? He goes, no. And I was like, okay, gotcha. Cool. Thank you. Literally.

[0:23] Quincy Brown: My name's Quincy.

[0:25] Kevin Bianchi: My name's Kevin. And this is Sentimental Men.

[0:28] Quincy Brown: But keep your thumb away from that skip button. We're here to talk, and maybe scream, about our favorite women in musical theater.

[0:38] Kevin Bianchi: Summer lovin', hand me a glance. Summer lovin', who's your dream cast?

[0:46] Quincy Brown: Oh, cute.

[0:49] Kevin Bianchi: Oh my gosh. Welcome to Summer with Sentiments.

[0:51] Quincy Brown: We're back.

[0:52] Kevin Bianchi: We are back.

[0:53] Quincy Brown: Our highly anticipated return to your podcast feeds.

[0:57] Kevin Bianchi: No one was waiting for Broadway to come back. Everyone was waiting for us to come back.

[1:01] Quincy Brown: Welcome back. We're so excited to be talking to you again. The break I think was much needed.

[1:08] Kevin Bianchi: I think so. But what was fun also, I mean, I know we weren't making episodes, but because we were still pretty active on social, I feel like we got to pay attention more to like interacting with everybody on Instagram and Twitter and TikTok and all that.

[1:20] Quincy Brown: Definitely.

[1:21] Kevin Bianchi: So that was actually kind of a fun part of the break for me.

[1:24] Quincy Brown: Didn't really feel like we were taking a full break. I felt like we were very much still around.

[1:27] Kevin Bianchi: No, it felt like spring break, not summer break for sure.

[1:31] Quincy Brown: And now we're back on our summer break.

[1:32] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah. And today we are really starting with a splash.

[1:37] Quincy Brown: Welcome back. We're diving in. We're cannonballing. None of this toe first, then you like wade in. We're jumping in off the diving board.

[1:45] Kevin Bianchi: Well, I guess before we get into the guests, is there any like anything you want to talk about? Any updates you want to give before we just like go right into it?

[1:51] Quincy Brown: Oh, big format change is we're moving Stuck on SJB to the end of the episode.

[1:56] Kevin Bianchi: Oh yeah. Very important to note. You're not going to hear Stuck on SJB in our intro banter.

[2:00] Quincy Brown: However, it's obviously still a segment. We're just shaking things up for this like summer series, you know.

[2:05] Kevin Bianchi: We're trying things.

[2:07] Quincy Brown: Yeah. So don't worry if you were listening for just the Stuck on SJBs, now you got to listen to the end.

[2:13] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah.

[2:13] Quincy Brown: So today we are talking to the one and only Eden Espinoza.

[2:21] Kevin Bianchi: Yes, we are. I cannot believe.

[2:23] Quincy Brown: And Kevin, as with every long resume, I would love for you to run us through it.

[2:30] Kevin Bianchi: This is quite an extensive resume to read off. I'm going to start our journey with Ms. Espinoza with her Broadway debut, which was in 2003, the original Broadway company of Wicked.

[2:41] Quincy Brown: She was the standby for Elphaba and the understudy for Nessa.

[2:44] Kevin Bianchi: So she was one of those first few who had that like magic golden track.

[2:48] Quincy Brown: Love that combo.

[2:49] Kevin Bianchi: I love that combo. Bring it back, Wicked LLC. If you're listening, which maybe you are, bring back that track.

[2:57] Kevin Bianchi: And then in 2004, she left Wicked to open Brooklyn on Broadway in the titular role of Brooklyn.

[3:04] Quincy Brown: Titular role.

[3:05] Kevin Bianchi: The titular role of Brooklyn.

[3:08] Quincy Brown: Then in 2005, this we have to ask her about because on her Wikipedia page, it says that in 2005, she was a temporary replacement for Stephanie J on the first national, which like has not been a part of that narrative for us up until now.

[3:22] Kevin Bianchi: Yes.

[3:22] Quincy Brown: But I'm curious. So we're going to ask her about that. I also think it's funny that this podcast has really turned into just piecing together the storyline of the first national tour opening.

[3:30] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah.

[3:31] Quincy Brown: Then in 2006, she went back to Wicked Broadway as principal Elphaba.

[3:36] Kevin Bianchi: Then in 2007, opened the Wicked LA company with Megan Hilty, one of our faves.

[3:43] Quincy Brown: Worth noting that during that contract, she sang and performed like as herself, I'm Not That Girl and Defying Gravity on Ugly Betty.

[3:52] Kevin Bianchi: I still remember that shot of like her and Megan Hilty, I think like looking up in the wings or something because something—

[3:57] Quincy Brown: And Megan Hilty says, holy crap.

[3:59] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah.

[3:59] Quincy Brown: Because Ugly Betty had like accidentally somehow gotten on the levitator.

[4:04] Kevin Bianchi: And that was so exciting for me as a kid because I was like, oh my god, professional like footage of Wicked.

[4:08] Quincy Brown: Yes, yes, exactly. It's like new pro shot.

[4:11] Kevin Bianchi: Um, after that, in 2008, she played the again, titular role in Floor of the Red Menace at the UCLA Freud Playhouse.

[4:19] Quincy Brown: And I bring that up because that is also where our queen SJB did their playing our song, formerly featured as a stuck on SJB.

[4:28] Kevin Bianchi: Absolutely stunning.

[4:29] Quincy Brown: So we're a big fan of the work they do at the UCLA Freud Playhouse.

[4:32] Kevin Bianchi: After that, this is actually one of my favorite parts of this long resume list. In 2008, she went into Rent on Broadway as part of the closing cast as Maureen, which is kind of fun because her Broadway debut was being the standby for Idina Menzel.

[4:50] Quincy Brown: And then eventually she ends up on Broadway closing the role that made Idina Menzel iconic.

[4:54] Kevin Bianchi: Which must have been a moment for her. I'd love to talk to her about that.

[5:00] Quincy Brown: Really fun.

[5:01] Kevin Bianchi: Which like we've all have that Rent DVD, the closing Broadway cast.

[5:05] Quincy Brown: Oh, mama, I went to see it in the theater.

[5:08] Kevin Bianchi: Oh, look at you.

[5:10] Quincy Brown: After she closed Rent, she went back into Wicked LA. 2010, she's back in Wicked again in the San Francisco company.

[5:17] Kevin Bianchi: So she did a Wicked contract, like every year for seven years.

[5:20] Quincy Brown: Which is commendable.

[5:22] Kevin Bianchi: And then most recently, I mean, she's done a bunch of other like great concerts. Like she did it in the Heights concert. She did the Joseph concert where Jessica Vosk and Alex Newell were also the narrators with her.

[5:33] Quincy Brown: Yeah. Delicious.

[5:34] Kevin Bianchi: When I was working at my old Broadway job, I famously had a viral tweet. And it was a gif of Noah Galvin twirling as Jessica Vosk, Eden, and Alex belted at him.

[5:44] Quincy Brown: And I was like, heaven is having these three belting at you.

[5:47] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah, I think I probably liked that.

[5:50] Quincy Brown: But yeah, so then I think what is worth noting is that she went on the first national tour of Falsettos as Trina.

[5:57] Kevin Bianchi: But yeah, and then she's also just like, I don't know, kind of like Julia Murney, how it's like, she's just a part of so many like things that are so iconic or legendary or like staples. Like she's on all the Scott Allen albums. She's on that Hair Actors Fund recording. She's in that video of the Disney trio that everyone's obsessed with.

[6:16] Quincy Brown: She's just like involved in all the right stuff.

[6:19] Kevin Bianchi: And she's the voice of Cassandra on I believe it's called Rapunzel's Tangled Adventure.

[6:24] Quincy Brown: We're not the target demo, but there is a song that I'm obsessed with. It's a duet between her and Jeremy Jordan. It is so good.

[6:31] Kevin Bianchi: We'll post it.

[6:33] Quincy Brown: You know what else is fun? Did you ever hear the rumor? I don't think this is fact, but I accepted as such.

[6:39] Kevin Bianchi: Sure.

[6:39] Quincy Brown: The rumor that Idina Menzel was almost the voice of Mother Gothel in Tangled.

[6:45] Kevin Bianchi: I would absolutely accept that as fact.

[6:47] Quincy Brown: The like story that I have heard is that like she was like down to the wire with that. But then Frozen was being developed at the same time. And they were like, I think she's going to be better suited over there.

[6:58] Kevin Bianchi: Now I'm imagining that.

[6:59] Quincy Brown: I mean, I'm happy Donna Murphy did it. If it ever came to Broadway, she's the first call.

[7:06] Kevin Bianchi: She would, I mean, who else?

[7:07] Quincy Brown: I mean, every Golden Age Elphaba would probably be the first round of calls.

[7:12] Kevin Bianchi: Do you think they'd go in order?

[7:15] Quincy Brown: Julia Murney would be a good Mother Gothel.

[7:17] Kevin Bianchi: Ooh, honestly, yeah.

[7:20] Quincy Brown: Okay, should we introduce our like new segment for this little summer?

[7:23] Kevin Bianchi: I think so.

[7:25] Quincy Brown: As we mentioned, we're moving Stuck on SJB to the end of every episode, but we thought it'd be super fun to kind of do a Stuck on SJB-esque segment every episode with the guests that we have on, which we are calling, Kevin, you're going to have to find a different sound effect to use.

[7:39] Kevin Bianchi: Choices, options, and bootlegs.

[7:42] Quincy Brown: Oh my.

[7:50] Kevin Bianchi: And basically just like an opportunity to highlight like a very specific thing that we are obsessed with about this guest that falls outside of the world of Wicked. Because everyone who's played Elphaba, yes, is an Elphaba, but also has like an extensive career outside of it.

[8:03] Quincy Brown: And I—

[8:04] Kevin Bianchi: For sure.

[8:05] Quincy Brown: Yeah, so we just want to take the opportunity to highlight something non-Wicked that we're obsessed with these guests about. Because our interviews tend to get very Wicked-centric, which obviously we're fine with.

[8:15] Kevin Bianchi: He's fine, yeah.

[8:17] Quincy Brown: But just to show the diversity that these actresses have within their careers.

[8:22] Kevin Bianchi: I think this is going to be fun too, because it's like all these women, we're not just obsessed with like their Elphaba, we're obsessed with them and their entire canon of work.

[8:32] Quincy Brown: So for the first installment of Choices, Options, and Bootlegs, oh my, featuring Eden Espinoza.

[8:39] Quincy Brown: I, Quincy Brown, am going to take it.

[8:40] Kevin Bianchi: Yes.

[8:41] Quincy Brown: Okay, listeners, in this moment right now, you're buckled up getting ready for me to give you my Choices, Options, and Bootlegs for Eden Espinoza. And you're probably thinking, obviously it's going to be Brooklyn Once Upon a Time. Is it not?

[8:54] Kevin Bianchi: No, it's not.

[8:55] Quincy Brown: Today, I want to talk about Lempicka the Musical. Which I'm going to be upfront and say, I don't know much about the plot. I don't know much about the source material. I know it's about an artist named Tamara de Lempicka, I think. So if that's incorrect, don't hold me to it. And I know that there might be a lesbian storyline somewhere in it.

[9:18] Kevin Bianchi: I think there is, yeah.

[9:20] Quincy Brown: I know that the music is by Matt Gold. And I know that the music is fantastic. Every song I've heard from Lempicka is actually incredible. So this show came onto my radar, wow, in 2019, I guess. Yeah, because it was pre-pandemic. I just kept seeing things about this show at Williamstown Theatre Festival called Lempicka.

[9:39] Kevin Bianchi: And it was starring Eden Espinoza and Carmen Cusack.

[9:41] Quincy Brown: And I was like, okay, Eden and Carmen are in a show together. I need to figure out what this is. Started watching all the little press clips, promo performances, started finding bootlegs of songs. Obsessed. The music is so good. There's a song, which I'm assuming is kind of like the 11 o'clock number. Again, I don't know the show called Woman Is. And it is so, so good.

[10:03] Kevin Bianchi: It got me so excited.

[10:04] Quincy Brown: I was contemplating because they were going to do a run in La Jolla before the pandemic hit.

[10:08] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah.

[10:08] Quincy Brown: I was literally contemplating going to La Jolla to see it because I was so excited about it. So we'll post it on our socials, but definitely check out Woman Is. There's also like a video of Shoshana Bean doing it, which is great. It's a very like belty woman role.

[10:22] Kevin Bianchi: So we'll probably hate it.

[10:24] Quincy Brown: But I'm really hopeful that the pandemic didn't stop the show.

[10:28] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah.

[10:29] Quincy Brown: Like I hope it comes back after all this is over because it seemed like a really great show and such a great like star vehicle for Eden and that role.

[10:37] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah.

[10:37] Quincy Brown: So I'm really excited. And it seemed like it was like all, what is the phrase? All speed ahead.

[10:42] Kevin Bianchi: All speed ahead.

[10:43] Quincy Brown: It feels like it was all speed ahead for Broadway. So I hope that that still happens when we come out of all this.

[10:49] Kevin Bianchi: Me too.

[10:50] Quincy Brown: I guess we could kind of—

[10:51] Kevin Bianchi: Oh my God.

[10:52] Quincy Brown: Quincy, when we come out of this, as in September 14.

[10:56] Kevin Bianchi: I was going to say, we should probably talk about the fact that like, since we left you, we now have like a Broadway announcement. And we're fucking going.

[11:03] Quincy Brown: Oh my God.

[11:03] Kevin Bianchi: Guys, set men are going to be at the first performance of Wicked on Broadway.

[11:08] Quincy Brown: We're going to be, should we do a meetup outside?

[11:10] Kevin Bianchi: Listen, if you guys see us at intermission.

[11:13] Quincy Brown: Mind your business.

[11:14] Kevin Bianchi: If we're not in the bathroom, come and talk to us.

[11:17] Quincy Brown: We'll be at the Stephanie J screen.

[11:19] Kevin Bianchi: If anyone wants to—

[11:20] Quincy Brown: Oh my God, we literally will be. Like laying flowers down.

[11:24] Kevin Bianchi: I'm cleaning it, making sure it's—

[11:26] Quincy Brown: So excited.

[11:27] Kevin Bianchi: I'm so grateful that we have the opportunity to be at this first performance.

[11:31] Quincy Brown: Me too.

[11:32] Kevin Bianchi: It's going to be, I'm going to cry.

[11:33] Quincy Brown: It's going to be wild.

[11:34] Kevin Bianchi: Oh, I'm going to be beside myself.

[11:38] Quincy Brown: And I'm glad that we're going together, Kevin.

[11:41] Kevin Bianchi: You have never seen me as gay as I'm going to be that night.

[11:44] Quincy Brown: I'm glad that's the first show we're doing back.

[11:46] Kevin Bianchi: No, there's no other choice.

[11:47] Quincy Brown: Yeah.

[11:48] Kevin Bianchi: Like what? We're going to go see Chicago?

[11:51] Quincy Brown: I said, if they put a housewife back in Chicago, I'll go see it.

[11:53] Kevin Bianchi: Okay. Let's talk about that. Did you see on the like cast and crew page or the Chicago website? It says a bombshell announcement is coming soon.

[12:04] Quincy Brown: And at time of recording, that announcement has not come. But do you think it's going to be Megan Hilty and Catherine McPhee as Velma and Roxy respectively?

[12:28] Quincy Brown: It's going to be Angelica Houston and Deborah Messing.

[12:30] Kevin Bianchi: Which I would also pay money to see.

[12:32] Quincy Brown: I would also pay top dollar for.

[12:35] Kevin Bianchi: Or it's going to be like Krista Rodriguez and Savannah Wise.

[12:38] Quincy Brown: Oh, but then I was like, what if it's not a reference to Bombshell Smash, it's a reference to Bombshell the movie, and it's like Megyn Kelly's going into Chicago.

[12:46] Kevin Bianchi: Not anyone from the movie, just Megyn Kelly herself.

[12:50] Quincy Brown: Which really seems more plausible than Cat McPhee and Megyn Hilty.

[12:54] Kevin Bianchi: So there's a chance that The Sent Men might also be at Chicago in the first week.

[12:59] Quincy Brown: I can't.

[12:59] Kevin Bianchi: But yeah, let us know if you guys are also going to be at the first performance of Wicked on Broadway, because I think that's going to be... That's like history. Like for the rest of our lives, we're going to be like, we were at that first performance of Wicked.

[13:04] Quincy Brown: I know. Quincy, have you ever thought about how cool it's going to be when Glinda comes down and says...

[13:15] Kevin Bianchi: I saw a tweet that was like, if I see one more tweet about how cool it's going to be.

[13:21] Quincy Brown: Yeah, it's so funny because on Twitter, I like have a saved search that I just go through and like click, click, click, click, click, like everything. And one of the keywords is Glinda.

[13:31] Kevin Bianchi: And so I truly have seen every tweet that says that. And I probably like about five tweets a day.

[13:38] Quincy Brown: Yeah. Well, I'm like, it was very cute in the beginning. I was like, oh my God. But I'm like, at this point, guys, we have made that point. Like we have talked about it.

[13:46] Kevin Bianchi: Also, like Justice for Elphaba's entrance. When Lindsay Heather Pierce, when those doors open and she runs down the stage, I'm going to have to be restrained.

[13:57] Quincy Brown: Oh my, wait, this is going to be so exciting.

[13:58] Kevin Bianchi: That's going to be so amazing too.

[14:00] Quincy Brown: And when Sentiment... Okay, so we had a listener, actually, I think it was Friend of the Pod, Jason, who said that when Sentimental Man comes on in Wicked... Comes on. When the Wizard performs Sentimental Man in Wicked, it has a whole new meaning now.

[14:16] Kevin Bianchi: It does. It does. And we'll be able to locate who in the audience listens to the pod.

[14:22] Quincy Brown: It's a bit cheery.

[14:24] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah. Gosh, what other moments are you looking forward to?

[14:27] Quincy Brown: Okay. So on this topic, the whole, it's good to see me by Glinda gets all the clout right now. I feel like that's what we're talking about, but I think her finale monologue that we've been through a frightening time is going to hit harder. Like I think that's going to be really emotional, especially because we'll have just gone through the whole show.

[14:44] Kevin Bianchi: Right. Everyone's going to be on such a high because it's going to be like, Wicked's back. She's belting. Everything's great. I'm blinded by the lights. And then all of a sudden it's going to be like, Hayden, the last year and a half suck. I don't know how to behave in a show. It's going to be a really interesting experience, I think.

[15:04] Quincy Brown: Yeah. I think it's going to be nutso.

[15:07] Kevin Bianchi: I also saw a tweet that was like, the first performance back at Wicked is going to be the biggest cruising event in the history of the world.

[15:13] Quincy Brown: I know. Everybody's going home with a boyfriend.

[15:19] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah. So I hope you guys have tickets to see whatever Broadway show you want to see when it's back. It's going to be a very exciting time. September can't come soon enough.

[15:27] Quincy Brown: I know.

[15:28] Kevin Bianchi: It's going to be great.

[15:33] Eden Espinosa: Hi.

[15:34] Quincy Brown: Thank you so much for joining us.

[15:36] Eden Espinosa: Eden Espinosa, hi.

[15:37] Kevin Bianchi: Listen, it's finally happening and I couldn't be happier.

[15:42] Eden Espinosa: Oh, shit.

[15:43] Quincy Brown: There it is.

[15:44] Kevin Bianchi: Oh, shit. Off the bat. Off the bat.

[15:47] Eden Espinosa: Okay. So you know our shtick, we're going to geek out about Wicked. But before we get into Wicked, Kevin and I just wanted to take this opportunity to really commend you on all the advocacy you've been doing over the past year. It's been really incredible to watch. And I'm really glad that the timing of all this worked out that we're talking to you now because it feels like a very interesting time where Broadway's announced that it's coming back. We're very excited for Broadway to be coming back. But there was a lot of talk and momentum about, okay, during this break, we're going to make sure that we build a better Broadway so that when it does come back, we're in a better place. And now it's getting to the point where it's like, okay, is that happening? Has it happened? Are we just going to move on and forget about all of this talk that we had?

[16:27] Eden Espinosa: All of those things.

[16:28] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah. So how are you feeling just checking in now in this process?

[16:32] Eden Espinosa: I mean, I'm feeling all of the things. I'm feeling a wide variety of emotions, all ranging from hopeful to devastated, to depressed, to optimistic, to realistic. And I think that a year ago, I think that I had a very different idea of how it would pan out, a very different idea of how more of the industry would be as like-minded as some of us are. And it's okay that they're not because everybody has their own lived experience. Everybody has their own view on their career and their position in their career. And how I'm feeling today is that I think I have a little bit more of a realistic view of like, yes, this is actually a long game, the longest of games. If we even look at the civil rights movement in the 60s, we're still dealing with this.

I mean, there are movements towards what we want it to be, but it's still a struggle. And I feel like Broadway out of all the entertainment industry is the most behind. We are the last to, even though we seem like we're the most inclusive.

[17:51] Kevin Bianchi: Well, that's the interesting thing where it's like you think that Broadway would be ahead of the curve and leading the charge on equity and diversity.

[17:59] Eden Espinosa: Yeah. And I mean, I naively thought that as well. So I think there have been steps towards what we want. But I think for me personally, I'm like, oh, this is, not everyone's going to say, I'm not going back to work. Nor should they. I mean, again, not everybody's in the position to do that. And I think that's fine. I just-

[18:25] Kevin Bianchi: It's hard to put it on the actors, I think.

[18:27] Eden Espinosa: 100. No, yes. I think most of all, I want people to realize their power. I want that narrative out of everything to change the most. Of course, like equity. Yes. I want everyone to be treated fairly and safely and equally. But I think a lot of that comes with the actor having agency and knowing that like, knowing your worth and knowing, no, my career won't be ruined if I say no to this abuse or if I say no to this person taking advantage of me. And so like less of the mindset of like, well, this is the business and this is how it is and I find out for it. My viewpoint on that has really changed. Like, no, I wouldn't willingly sign up for that. And so I'm not going to. I've made it through a year and a half without like setting foot on the stage and I've actually thrived in many areas of my life that I don't think I would have otherwise. And so I want people to have that sort of revelation, if anything.

[19:30] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah. And how does this kind of viewing your career moving forward, how is that kind of perspective shifted after this year?

[19:35] Eden Espinosa: In a huge way. This is going to sound harsher than I mean it. It's not that I don't care. It's just that there are bigger things. You know, I had a residency that I had started and I didn't get to finish when the pandemic hit. And so I did my first live show a couple weeks ago back at the Green Room 42. I was sitting with my guitar player and I was like, I'm really noticing that I don't feel anxious and I don't feel like, oh, God, I hope I can make it through the show without having sung after a year and a half. And he was like, yeah, because there's bigger things. And I was like, you're absolutely right. This should be for me. This should be for enjoyment. This should be for joy.

[20:20] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah. And so that's that's a beautiful thing. And I think that speaks to I mean, I've been kind of feeling like this pull in each direction where it's like we need Broadway back. We need theater back. We need sitting in a room and storytelling back. But there's all this other work that needs to be done. And I think that theater people specifically were the kind of artists that it's like we are about community. You know what I mean? So it's like as much as we want to protect our own community, we also know that we serve a community of people who rely on theater to get through these times. So it really is a complicated, complicated ratio to navigate.

[21:04] Eden Espinosa: Yes. Yes. When you work in the theater industry, it's like these are your friends. These are your colleagues. This is your fun activities that you're doing. It's so ingrained in your life.

[21:09] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Nobody starts to work in theater because they're going to make a million dollars, right? Like we're all here because we care about it. We're all here because it means something to us. And so yeah, it's kind of funny that we are the maybe in last place as far as this conversation goes. But I think it's surprising given that the people in the conversation are so we're so forward thinking we're so like ready to make the change. It's just the system is antiquated. It's right. And we're not the ones the people leading the charge are not the ones in charge of the system.

[21:40] Eden Espinosa: Yeah, it's just, you know, the more work you do, the more peeling back layers of systems of capitalism, white supremacy, it's like, oh, shit, this is deep.

[21:53] Kevin Bianchi: Which would have been easy to keep glossing over if this forced pause hadn't happened, you know?

[21:57] Eden Espinosa: Yep, absolutely. Absolutely. I wouldn't have learned half of the things that I did, or maybe not any and realize my place in it and areas that I had not known or been complacent or yeah, so it's all it's all very eye opening.

[22:14] Kevin Bianchi: Definitely. Kind of on this note, I would love to hear your thoughts on this. When Kevin and I were prepping for this interview, we kind of had this moment of realization where we were like, oh, Edith Espinoza was the first woman of color to play Elphaba.

[22:21] Eden Espinosa: Yeah.

[22:27] Kevin Bianchi: But then yeah, you've talked about this before where you kind of fall in a tricky space when it comes to how you identify and how you're going to be thought of in the perceived.

[22:31] Eden Espinosa: Yeah, you know, this last year, a year and change, I was asked early on to be a part of a panel for this exact reason of like the Elphabas of color at the time, I just didn't feel like I could contribute to the conversation because that's not the reason I was hired. Do you know what I mean? It wasn't a thing that nobody cared that I was Mexican American, like it was that wasn't a thing. And as I've gotten further into my work as a Mexican American woman, diving into colorism and how I'm viewed, and really going like, Oh, I, I'm not actually a person of color. I'm white, like my skin is white. And people look at me. And they don't see the stereotypical version of what they think is Mexican. And that can, you know, that can come as a plus or a minus.

And it has my entire career, like you're not quite, you know, you're not quite ethnic enough. Can you make this? Can you make this scene more urban? Can you make it more street? Or you're actually we want to call you back in for like the doctor or lawyer, you sound too educated. Do you know what I'm saying? And so that has been a thing my whole life. But it's also like, I've, I've just realized that I can be aware of how I take up space as a person of color. And is there actually a person of color who can be in this position who can do this role? Am I taking up space? That has someone who has had lived experience of immigrating to this country? And, you know, that that's very nuanced, you know, my whole family is has more Eurocentric features.

I have my family in Mexico are blonde hair, blue eyed, you know, they're, we're, we're very light skinned. And so that has its own thing in Mexico, but also in America, you know, in America, you're not, you're not Mexican, but you're not white. And so and then people from Mexico, like, you're not Mexican, you're American. And the Americans are like, you're Mexican. You know, it's a very, very weird thing.

[24:38] Kevin Bianchi: And I kind of relate because I'm originally from Hawaii. And when I came to the mainland, I feel like when people find out I'm from Hawaii, they just assume that this is like what Hawaiian looks like, but I'm actually half black. So it's like, I personally have never had the experience like negative experiences towards my race, you know, right. So when all the Black Lives Matter things was happening.

[24:56] Eden Espinosa: And people were reaching out. It felt very weird because I was like, I personally haven't lived these experiences, but I can understand why you would think that, you know? Do you identify more as like AAPI? How do you navigate that space? Well, yeah, so it's interesting because I'm also half Asian, and I was raised by the Asian side of my family. So, okay, the black of it all really, and the Hawaii race is not as big of an issue as it is right mainland. So just like thinking of my race in general was never a thing growing up. And it's been definitely an interesting area to navigate as I've been on the mainland, and as the Black Lives Matter happened, and the stop Asian hate was all going on.

It's been very interesting. Yeah. Well, so to bring it back to your question, I technically, yes, I am the first. Technically, I am the first like non-white. Yeah. I mean, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. This was like a really great conversation. I feel great. Great. We're back for season two. Then we'll start to talk about the green in a minute. I know. So the other skin color. Yeah. So switching gears to Wicked, we like to start every interview with when did Wicked the musical first enter your life?

[26:05] Eden Espinosa: So Stephanie and I are both from Orange County, California. Yes, the Orange County Alphabas, a sub sorority. Yes, it kind of is. We both, you know, worked at Disney and did a lot of regional theater. So I definitely knew she was like, superstar of like regional theater. Was she like the it girl? Yes. 100. Like she was it. And so we knew each other and I like looked up to her. And so there were not rumors, but like, we all knew that she was part of developing this like new story called Wicked. And, you know, it's like, and then like, some, you know, people started talking about the book and this musical. So I had moved to New York around the same time that Stephanie had. And I moved to New York because I auditioned for the Workshop of Brooklyn. And that's what took me to New York. I did the Workshop of Brooklyn. Two weeks later, I moved.

[27:06] Quincy Brown: And you auditioned from California?

[27:08] Eden Espinosa: For Brooklyn. Yes. Yes. Yeah. They had had sessions in New York. And I had made it to the very end from LA for several tours cast by Dave Clemmons.

[27:21] Quincy Brown: What were the tours?

[27:23] Eden Espinosa: Well, no, one was Dracula. Was real close to getting that one. And there was this other like, thing called Lord of the Light or something like it was a random like, rock symphony type thing. I was on his radar. So he would call me in for things. And so he said, you know, we're coming into LA, we've seen people in New York, they haven't quite found what they were looking for. And I think you should be seen for this workshop of a new show. And I didn't even know what a workshop was like, I had to ask my I was working at Universal Studios at the time. And I and a lot of a lot of people in LA had like, done Broadway and then like, don't like living in New York. So they like go back to LA. So a lot of my friends were older and had done Broadway and tours and everything.

So I was like, guys, like, what's, hey, what's this workshop? Like, should I do it? They're like, yes, you're doing it like audition. So Brooklyn was in their out of town tryout in Denver, at the same time that Wicked was out of town in San Francisco.

[28:26] Quincy Brown: Okay.

[28:27] Eden Espinosa: Now, mind you, I had auditioned for Nessa Rose for the original company for like, and then so Brooklyn went to Denver, Wicked was in San Francisco, and I got a call from Stephanie Block, who said to me, I have been cast in a musical called Boy From Oz opposite Hugh Jackman. So I am no longer going to continue with Wicked and you should tell your agent that you want to go in as the understudy. And so I did I told them what she had said. And then I got an audition. They gave me the fallen house scene, which is the fight scene with Glinda and then and Defying Gravity. And she came over to our apartment, which there was five of us living in an apartment, but we all knew each other from Orange County, right? So Stephanie would come over a lot. And she came over and she sang Defying Gravity acapella for me in a tape recorder, y'all tape recorder. This is this is the dating myself right now. And coach me on it.

[29:26] Quincy Brown: Wow.

[29:26] Eden Espinosa: Told me like told me what the setup of the scene was.

[29:29] Quincy Brown: Does Shoshana Bean have a similar story of Stephanie Block singing that to her?

[29:32] Eden Espinosa: She does on the street corner or something.

[29:34] Quincy Brown: Oh, I didn't know that.

[29:35] Eden Espinosa: It's like the first time that Shoshana was going in. And she called Stephanie left a voicemail like, Hey, if can you like, tell me how the song goes or whatever. And Stephanie like called her back from like 72nd and Broadway and like sang it full out onto her voicemail. See, these are the stories that wouldn't happen anymore. And then I went in and then I they gave me the option to be in the ensemble and be the cover or be the standby. I still had Brooklyn on the brain. So I was like, I want that to be my like, technical Broadway debut. So I was like, I want to be the standby.

[30:05] Quincy Brown: And it's like leading lady in a Broadway show.

[30:11] Eden Espinosa: Yeah, right. And having like crafted it. Yeah. So I was like, I'll be the standby and I'll just like hang out. You know, there was no rigmarole like they have to do now of like singing it a million times. Like, I had my first audition, which I sang Metal Ark.

[30:29] Quincy Brown: Wow.

[30:29] Eden Espinosa: And my callback was Defying Gravity and the Fallen House scene. And they asked, they asked me to wear a black dress.

[30:36] Quincy Brown: Yeah.

[30:36] Eden Espinosa: So you sang a Belty Stephen Schwartz song for your audition.

[30:39] Eden Espinosa: I did. That's like, gutsy. And what's crazy is like, I didn't even think about that. Like, this is what they would teach you in school, like, never do that. But I just was like, this is my song that I sing all the time. So yeah, I did it again for Frank Wildhorn. When I had gone in for Dracula, I sang Someone Like You. Because that was my audition song.

[31:01] Quincy Brown: Right.

[31:01] Eden Espinosa: And I didn't even think like, oh, I'm gonna be singing it for the composer until I walked in, handed my music and I was like, oh my god, this is okay. Yep. We're gonna do it. There we go. I peer through windows.

[31:17] Quincy Brown: So wait, when Wicked, because you had obviously known of Wren at this point in time when Wicked was out.

[31:22] Eden Espinosa: Oh, yeah.

[31:23] Quincy Brown: Yeah, of course.

[31:24] Eden Espinosa: So what was kind of the buzz when you're going in for Wicked? And you know, Idina Menzel is now starring in it. What were the feelings then?

[31:31] Eden Espinosa: Well, I mean, I was gagged. All I wanted to do was be Maureen. I looked up to Idina so much. And beyond that, I didn't really think much of it. It hadn't opened, you know? So like, we didn't know what it was. It wasn't this huge thing yet.

[31:48] Quincy Brown: Yeah, it hadn't opened. You know, we had heard rumblings of stuff from San Francisco. But like, not really anything. And then they called me in early. So they were like, can you just come in and hang out basically? Like, nobody's gonna have time to rehearse with you. We'll pull you in when we have time. But just like be around and learn what you can when they were in tech. So I walked in. I walked into the Gershwin shortly after being in Denver with a five person show in which we wore trash.

[32:18] Eden Espinosa: Right. And I remember walking in and they were teching one short day. And it was a very surreal moment. But I remember just going like, I'm not in Kansas anymore. Because I was like, oh my god, this is a real, not a real musical, but you know.

[32:37] Quincy Brown: Especially at that point in your career, right? Like, you were still a young actress. This was your break.

[32:40] Eden Espinosa: Yeah. I hadn't made a Broadway debut. I hadn't, yeah, nothing. So then what is it like for you then, like, as a standby, kind of not an invisible member of the company, as an offstage member of the company, let's say.

[32:51] Eden Espinosa: And the first standby.

[32:53] Quincy Brown: And the first standby to go through this wild opening where the show became this, like, huge thing. Like, did you feel any ownership of the show at that point? Or?

[33:02] Eden Espinosa: No, it was very much like on the outside. It very much was waving through a window.

[33:09] Quincy Brown: Was there a Glinda standby at the time? There wasn't, right?

[33:15] Eden Espinosa: No, there wasn't.

[33:15] Quincy Brown: Added later. Yeah.

[33:16] Eden Espinosa: Gotcha. Yeah, they couldn't find somebody. And then Laura Bell came along. Yeah, it was very surreal, just because like, you weren't involved in things. And so it was very voyeuristic. Because like, even when they would have like, pull, you know, members of a scene aside in like the rotunda to rehearse something, then I would just be there like, watching and taking notes. So but it's like, I don't know anybody here, I feel very intrusive a little bit. But then randomly, like, I'd be sitting in the house and Norbert would come and be like, Hey, do you want to go run lines? And I'd be like, Yeah, or, you know, one of the assistant stage managers would pull me and run lines with me or a remiss would pull me and learn some music. And yeah, it is a weird thing. Because you're, you know, I had a ticket for every preview to learn. That's how I learned to the show, basically. So you you did, you did know all the inside stuff, but you were definitely on the outside.

[34:10] Quincy Brown: Yeah.

[34:10] Eden Espinosa: So watching the show and learning the show, before you did it the first time, what was like the biggest stressor about going on for Elf?

[34:19] Eden Espinosa: I think for me, it was it was the stamina of just like the ins and outs, because I knew one side of it, meaning like I knew what I saw from the audience and what I could jot down. But the other side, like the quick changes and the patterns and there were also certain things that Idina's dresser would pull me aside and tell me, you know, she was like, for Defying Gravity, like practice from this point on with your feet together, because you had to stand so you had to stand on the levitator or, you know, you might want to like run, run a stairwell up and down, you know, just to like know that like you have a fucking run around before you're singing or, you know, or even Defying Gravity. So things like that. I think it was it was those types of things. I went on for Nessa with one rehearsal.

[35:09] Quincy Brown: Yeah, I made my Broadway debut with Nessa.

[35:11] Eden Espinosa: And one rehearsal?

[35:11] Quincy Brown: Yeah.

[35:12] Eden Espinosa: Wow. Because they already had an understudy who had gone on in San Francisco, Christy Candler. And so they're like, don't worry about Nessa right now, just focus on Elphaba. And were you focusing on Nessa at all during the rehearsal?

[35:23] Quincy Brown: No, no, not at all. Until one day, they're like, okay, which of course, at that point, I knew the vocal, you know, and the lines, but like, and then I had one understudy rehearsal on Thursday. And that Saturday, matinee, I went on for my first time.

[35:37] Eden Espinosa: I imagine the blocking is probably difficult with Nessa.

[35:40] Quincy Brown: Yes. I mean, a wheelchair, a wheelchair on a rigged stage is Yeah, it's Yeah, it takes a lot.

[35:48] Eden Espinosa: God bless those triceps.

[35:49] Quincy Brown: Okay, wait, so you're standing by what's happening with Brooklyn while you're is it still happening? Are you still like,

[35:55] Eden Espinosa: Yeah, there was back and forth, because a lot of our creative team was also involved in Taboo. Oh, they were gonna try to get us in that season. But then Taboo went. And that was the year it was like Taboo, Avenue Q, Wicked, Carolina Change. Yeah. And so yeah, then then Brooklyn was the next season.

[36:13] Quincy Brown: So what was the decision? Because you left Wicked to do Brooklyn, right?

[36:16] Eden Espinosa: Yeah, I just always I mean, it was a no brainer. I was always, you know, that was my show that I originated. So it was like, I was just waiting for that to happen. And I remember like certain people had conversations with me of like, Are you sure you want? Are you sure? Because I left like, you know, not long before Kristen had already left and Norbert had already left. And so it was like, Are you sure you want to go like right before before you might replace? And I was like, Yeah,

[36:46] Quincy Brown: on that note, what was it like to be a standby and watch Idina go through the Wicked journey with the Tonys and all of that?

[36:52] Eden Espinosa: It is a cool like position to be in because you you really do get to see the ins and outs of how much it takes, but you don't know until you're in it. And so I remember my first time going on for Elphaba was planned because she had been cast in a movie like the Dust movie.

[37:10] Eden Espinosa: Yeah, ask the dust. And then there was the actual filming where I was on for like two weeks. And I remember Saturday night of my first week, like right before the pop up at the end through the trap.

[37:24] Eden Espinosa: You're hanging there for a while waiting to pop up and I'm hanging there and I remember looking at Joby, Idina's dresser, and I was like, Idina Menzel is the hardest working woman in show business. I just remember going like, this is not, that was my first time doing, you know, an almost full week. And I was just like, yo, this is a lot. And I remember one time asking her like, what do you do during the day? Like, you know, so what's your life like? Like, what do you do? And she's like, I don't do anything. I spend the morning recovering from the night before and then I spend the afternoon prepping for the evening show. And I remember being like, just a naive young, I was 25 years old, you know, young performer just going like, oh, okay. And then when I got in and I was like, no, quite literally, that's it. You're wiped. You're just tired. Kevin and I were talking about vocally comparing your role in Brooklyn and Elphaba, which is harder.

[38:24] Kevin Bianchi: Elphaba was harder for me by a lot.

[38:27] Eden Espinosa: Really?

[38:28] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah. Yeah, because Brooklyn was like, you know, it was like a couture dress made for my courts.

[38:33] Eden Espinosa: Right. Julia Murney said the same thing about Wild Party. She's like, when it's bringing you to your own limits and not Idina Menzel's, it's a little, it's a totally different ballgame.

[38:43] Kevin Bianchi: 100%. Even though technically you belted higher in Brooklyn.

[38:47] Eden Espinosa: Way higher. But yes, but my voice like sits easier higher. So where Idina's sweet spot was, was the bane of my existence.

[38:56] Kevin Bianchi: Wow. Interesting.

[38:58] Eden Espinosa: And that's why I would option up. We just talked to Jackie Burns, and she told us that she opted up at the end of Wizard and I because it was easier for her and that last note was like the worst.

[39:08] Kevin Bianchi: Same. Wizard and I, bane of my existence. Like the worst. No Good Deed, I could sing all day, but there were certain moments of No Good Deed where I was like, this doesn't feel good.

[39:19] Kevin Bianchi: Wow.

[39:20] Eden Espinosa: And my biggest fear was that I would have a surprise go on and I wouldn't be ready. So forever, like I would sing along certain songs or I would do blocking up in the top rehearsal room along with the show. At least once a week, I would do it on my own. But sometimes I'd be hanging in my dressing room and I just sing along. But that's when I would option up the things I never felt, the options up of No Good Deeds that are like the Eden ones. That's just because I was fucking around because it was sat easier in my voice.

[39:49] Kevin Bianchi: Right.

[39:49] Eden Espinosa: Well, so when you were first going on a standby, were you opting up or were you singing to score in the very beginning?

[39:53] Eden Espinosa: Well, in the very beginning, I would sing to score, but sometimes I would throw in a... Something. It was not okay at the time. Yeah. I'd get a talking to. One time I said I got in trouble and Stephen's like, you didn't get in trouble. And I was like, you're right. I didn't get in trouble, but you asked me not to do it.

[40:12] Kevin Bianchi: Right. Sure.

[40:13] Eden Espinosa: At that point, it was like, just do the things that Idina has already done.

[40:17] Kevin Bianchi: Gotcha.

[40:18] Eden Espinosa: But then later when I took over, then I did whatever. And then now they teach them as options.

[40:22] Kevin Bianchi: Right.

[40:23] Eden Espinosa: Yeah. Well, so then that's a question I have is like, so then what was the shift for you between like sitting in the audience or sitting backstage, being intimidated by the scale of it? And then eight years later, you're like still doing the part. You know what I mean? Like, where was that switch where you like found your sweet spot that you were able to keep coming back to it?

[40:41] Eden Espinosa: Yeah. I think that there was a switch for me because on the first national tour, Stephanie had gotten injured.

[40:49] Kevin Bianchi: Which walk us through that because a big part of this podcast is piecing together Stephanie's injury story and that whole thing.

[40:52] Eden Espinosa: We are the historians of this event. So...

[40:57] Kevin Bianchi: I love this. I love it.

[40:59] Eden Espinosa: Eden, someone cited us in a college essay.

[41:01] Kevin Bianchi: I love that.

[41:02] Eden Espinosa: We got a DM that was like, hey, I cited you in a paper. Can I email it to you? And we were like, yes.

[41:09] Eden Espinosa: I love that. Okay. So timeline was they had approached me to just stand by because they weren't sure what was happening with Stephanie. She needed some time to heal. She got injured and then was not healing because she didn't have the proper time off. And I remember my agent saying, why don't you just let her do an entire city? That way she can get some reviews and Stephanie can completely heal.

[41:38] Kevin Bianchi: Oh, good agent.

[41:39] Eden Espinosa: Yeah. And they said, yes. And so I came into LA at the Pantages and shadowed Stephanie. I think I did one show there. And then I did the entire San Francisco run of the first national tour in 2005.

[41:55] Kevin Bianchi: And that was your first time doing it full time.

[41:57] Eden Espinosa: Full time. Correct.

[41:59] Kevin Bianchi: Okay. And what was that experience? Because it was on tour. So presumably not as difficult as doing it.

[42:04] Eden Espinosa: Yeah. Well, I mean, and even yeah, because no rake and know a lot of, you know, a lot of underground stuff. But it was also awesome because like, I had Derek Williams, who we were both understudies. And, you know, together, he was Fiyero. There were a lot of familiar faces. And then it was then when they started talking to me about going to Broadway. And then I took over for Shoshana.

[42:26] Kevin Bianchi: And at that point, you were like, obviously, yes.

[42:28] Eden Espinosa: Yeah, for sure. And then during that is when they approached Megan and I about the LA company.

[42:35] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah. Okay, so here's what I want to talk about. You did it for a long time, Eden.

[42:39] Eden Espinosa: I did. I did a contract every year for seven years from 2003 to 2010.

[42:44] Kevin Bianchi: Crazy.

[42:45] Eden Espinosa: At what point in those seven years? Did you think, should I stop doing this? Am I tired of this? No, I'm going to keep going. Like, I have to assume that happened at some point.

[42:54] Eden Espinosa: Yeah, it did. There were moments of that at the end of my Broadway run. But then LA was a completely different experience only because, you know, we really got to make it our own and start from scratch. And Joe, you know, Joe was there the whole time, which was not necessarily the case any other time. And so we really like built it from the ground up. And he pushed Megan and I really hard to reinvent, which was amazing.

[43:23] Kevin Bianchi: So would you say you had the most freedom on that contract?

[43:26] Eden Espinosa: Yeah, I was actually encouraged to not do, you know what I mean?

[43:29] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah, right, right, right.

[43:30] Eden Espinosa: Yeah.

[43:30] Kevin Bianchi: And then you moved to San Fran after doing LA.

[43:33] Eden Espinosa: Yes, I left LA earlier than the rest of my cast did because I was done. And I'm not the type, everyone thought I was crazy. Like, I literally had conversations with my friends going, you're crazy. Why are you leaving? Because it was a cushy-ass gig. But I'm not the type of, I can't phone things in. And I had really worked hard in conjunction with, you know, under Joe's direction to, to really this new level of immediacy and presence and freedom in which that I didn't know how to phone it in. That it was like, and I remember him saying, like, this is your new bar. And it'll, and when it gets less than this, you're gonna feel it.

[44:15] Kevin Bianchi: Mmm.

[44:15] Eden Espinosa: And it was true. And I was like, this is not fair to myself, to my counterparts, and to the audience. Like, I'm just not, I need a break. So then I, yeah, I left, like, it was just shy of a year. And then Megan and I came back at the end. They asked us to come back to close it.

[44:31] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah.

[44:33] Eden Espinosa: And then walk us through the decision to do San Francisco after your experience in LA, your first experience in LA.

[44:38] Eden Espinosa: That was that was purely I was about to get married. And they it was a it was a limited engagement. You know, it was like, it's this amount of time. Do you want to come back? And I was like, okay, clear. I was like, okay. And that was and that was really the clincher of I'm done. Close the book.

[44:57] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah. What was awesome about it, though, was like, Kendra, it was with Kendra, a cast bomb, who we had done it five years prior.

[45:07] Eden Espinosa: On the tour, right?

[45:08] Kevin Bianchi: On the tour. And so it was really cool to revisit that with her in the same city in the same theater five years apart. And it was it was also kind of cool because we were around the same age. And sometimes you can get like, you know, if it wasn't Megan, as the years went on, there was a gap in age. Younger. And so when I had somebody that was like my true peer, it was just like a different experience. And so I'm glad that I got to have that moment with Kendra that book end moment with her.

[45:37] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah, sure.

[45:40] Eden Espinosa: So of all the contracts you did over the years, what do you hold most special in your heart?

[45:46] Eden Espinosa: I'd say LA.

[45:47] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah.

[45:48] Eden Espinosa: Yeah, LA was really like mine, meaning like that was my alphabet. That was my, my hometown.

[45:55] Kevin Bianchi: True. And you got to originate it.

[45:57] Eden Espinosa: Yeah.

[45:57] Kevin Bianchi: So we have this kind of I don't know if it's a theory. It's just like an idea that every alphabet resonates with one of the big three songs the most.

[46:05] Eden Espinosa: Okay.

[46:05] Kevin Bianchi: So Wizard and I, Defying Gravity, No Good Deed, Elphaba. Of the three, we already know you don't like The Wizard and I.

[46:12] Eden Espinosa: Yours was crazy. I actually really love the sentiment of the song. It's just vocally, it's not my fave.

[46:17] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah, which everyone has said. Everyone's like Wizard and I is like the worst thing to start a show with. I can't believe we have to do this.

[46:21] Eden Espinosa: It is right out the gate.

[46:24] Kevin Bianchi: So of the three, which would you say you resonate with the most?

[46:28] Eden Espinosa: No Good Deed.

[46:28] Kevin Bianchi: Do you feel like vocally that fits you the best? Or is it that that's like an easy place for you to go emotionally? Like what what draws you there?

[46:35] Eden Espinosa: I like where it is in the in the arc of the character. I also like, you know, I have moments for Defying Gravity with this as well. But it's like, I like the places that I got to with Joe's permission, I guess, you know, like he really, he really pushed me to unleash the beast.

[46:54] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah.

[46:54] Eden Espinosa: The like, anger and the manic and the like, the shit that like drove her that made her the Wicked Witch.

[47:02] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah, right, right.

[47:03] Eden Espinosa: As misunderstood as she was, like, and that moment, I love that she fucking owns it, you know, and it's like, fine.

[47:08] Kevin Bianchi: From a fan perspective, it really feels like the Eden Espinosa No Good Deed is kind of like the bar that now all the other Alphabas work around and try to channel and center themselves around.

[47:20] Eden Espinosa: Thank you for saying that. I appreciate it. It's also just a fun to play that dichotomy of like, the torture of like, what have I done? And how can I fix it? And, you know, all these people who have, you know, Dr. Dillam and Anessa and, you know, I'm just like, I keep trying so hard, and it's not working out.

[47:39] Kevin Bianchi: So before we go, we have to talk about Lempicka Eden.

[47:44] Eden Espinosa: Let's talk about it. What do you want to talk about?

[47:46] Kevin Bianchi: Quincy is obsessed with Lempicka.

[47:48] Eden Espinosa: And here's the thing.

[47:49] Kevin Bianchi: Did you see?

[47:51] Eden Espinosa: No.

[47:53] Kevin Bianchi: You know what, listen, it makes me happy that people are obsessed already when like, there's been nothing like

[47:57] Eden Espinosa: That's what I'm saying, though.

[48:00] Kevin Bianchi: Don't know the plot. I know that it's about like the artist. I know that there's perhaps a lesbian storyline. I don't know. All I know is that Women Is is gonna change Broadway. If and when ever performed live. So like, what can you tell us about Lempicka? Is it coming back?

[48:16] Eden Espinosa: We hope so. Yeah, I hope so. Lempicka is a wolf. It's a beautifully nuanced, deep, complicated sweeping.

[48:30] Kevin Bianchi: What kind of musical would you compare it to? Because I'm really trying to get a sense for like the tone of it.

[48:34] Eden Espinosa: Okay, so if I could take the, the epicness of a Les Mis and make it like more contemporary in like a wicked sense, right? But even like there's more, there's like track elements to certain songs that come in because it was right in the right in the turning of things artistically when people started, like the Art Deco Renaissance when people started painting more like skyscrapers and metal and machines. So there's a lot of cool track elements that are involved in the music as well.

[49:16] Kevin Bianchi: Gotcha.

[49:17] Eden Espinosa: That's what it is very epic and sweeping, but it's contemporary.

[49:21] Kevin Bianchi: Wow. Oh, I can't wait to see it. I hope I'm like, this is gonna be Eden Espinosa's Tony.

[49:27] Eden Espinosa: Listen, 2020 was supposed to be the year of Lempicka.

[49:30] Kevin Bianchi: And I was ready.

[49:32] Eden Espinosa: So was I, Quincy. So was I. But you know, everything happens as it should. And, you know, I don't know. I know that they've, because the story is so involved, her life was so, just so many things happened to her. That there have been a lot of rewrites and a lot of, you know, over the years and as, and even during

[49:53] Quincy Brown: It feels like a really special show and it feels like if it's marketed correctly, it could really be it. You know?

[50:23] Kevin Bianchi: I agree. Yeah. I agree. It's about that puzzle, though. We got to figure out that puzzle. Definitely. But yeah. Thank you for being excited.

[50:31] Eden Espinosa: I'm excited too. There's a lot of good shit in there.

[50:37] Kevin Bianchi: Where can people find you online, Eden?

[50:40] Eden Espinosa: I'm at Eden Espinosa on all the things. Yeah, on Instagram, on Twitter, EdenEspinosa.com.

[50:47] Quincy Brown: Amazing. Slide into my DMs.

[50:50] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah. Thank you so much for joining us.

[50:53] Eden Espinosa: Thanks for having me. It went by so fast.

[50:56] Quincy Brown: I know. I know.

[51:00] Kevin Bianchi: Oh, Quincy, it feels good to be back.

[51:03] Quincy Brown: It feels right. You know what I mean? It's like I was missing a piece of myself and now I have that piece back. And that piece is talking to all of us.

[51:10] Kevin Bianchi: And listen, I was a little worried. I was like, are we still going to have our je ne sais quoi about us after all this time off?

[51:14] Quincy Brown: Yes.

[51:15] Kevin Bianchi: But I think we did.

[51:17] Quincy Brown: Kevin, I was full on Norma Desmond. I don't know why I'm frightened. I know my way around here.

[51:24] Kevin Bianchi: The convert scenes, the painting trees, the sounds here.

[51:29] Quincy Brown: It was as if we had never said goodbye. We fell right back in. I was real proud of how we did.

[51:35] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah, it was really fun, really fresh. It was nice to like talk to you in this way again. I feel like I miss communicating with you in our sticky way that we do on the podcast.

[51:42] Quincy Brown: We were being too real for too long.

[51:44] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I like my friendships with like a glossy, laminated, artificial personality.

[51:50] Quincy Brown: Also, like Quincy, pretty freaking cool that we're coming back with Eden Espinosa.

[51:55] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah, and cool that she agreed to come on. Again, always shocked by the people that agreed to talk to us.

[52:01] Quincy Brown: I know. I keep worrying that we're going to not get any new stuff to talk about. You know what I mean? Like I keep worrying that eventually we're going to hit this wall where everyone's telling the same story.

[52:09] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah.

[52:10] Quincy Brown: Hasn't happened.

[52:11] Kevin Bianchi: Listen, no Elphaba journey is the same.

[52:14] Quincy Brown: Like fingerprints.

[52:15] Kevin Bianchi: Put that on a tissue.

[52:17] Quincy Brown: The fingerprints of the handprint on my heart.

[52:20] Kevin Bianchi: There's a really cool visual and they're like the fingerprint and it's like everyone's Elphaba journey. I don't know.

[52:25] Quincy Brown: But the fingerprint is a yellow brick road.

[52:28] Kevin Bianchi: Oh, bitch. Did I just invent the T-shirt?

[52:31] Quincy Brown: Something I thought was super interesting that I did not know prior to this is that Eden originally went in for out of town Nessa, like OG Nessa.

[52:37] Kevin Bianchi: OG Nessa. Okay, Quincy, this was the thing I wanted to talk about because then I got to thinking, I wonder if Eden Espinosa is the root of the Elphaba standby Nessa understudy track. Like I wonder if that track came into existence because they were like, hey, two birds, one stone.

[52:53] Quincy Brown: No, that is super interesting and probably accurate. We need to like definitively find out how many Elphaba Nessas there were. That also made me think though, if Eden originally went in for Nessa Rose, do you think that mentally then she was like, okay, if I'm going to be in the show, it's going to be Nessa Rose. So then when she gets the call from SJB saying my standby, the standby position is going to be open. Do you think she was like, well, can I do Elphaba?

[53:19] Kevin Bianchi: If I'm Eden Espinosa and I know that this role is, you know, that Stephanie is working on this role, I'm probably thinking like I can do what she does so I can probably do this role.

[53:27] Quincy Brown: I don't mean to say that they were like the competition, like they were the Ivy and Karen of the greater Los Angeles community.

[53:34] Kevin Bianchi: I think that like for an actor or an actress or a singer, it's like a normal thing to like look at somebody else who you equate yourself with and say like, okay, I could probably do that too.

[53:43] Quincy Brown: Sure. I also thought it was interesting or cute that Eden was like, oh yes, SJB was the it girl of Orange County.

[53:49] Kevin Bianchi: I also would just like to say what a freaking angel Stephanie J. Block is. Like how nice is that to be like, hey, I'm leaving this show and I think you'd be good in my track.

[53:56] Quincy Brown: Sure. I thought you were going to talk about the two separate stories of SJB singing Delightfully Acapella.

[54:02] Kevin Bianchi: Okay. I can only talk about one thing at once, but you know what I mean? Like I love that she in that moment that was like a great moment for her also took the time to like pay it forward.

[54:10] Quincy Brown: I liked getting the perspective of playing Elphaba from someone who has played Elphaba for so long and I'm happy that she kind of like was willing to be honest and open about where she was at with the role, mentally, everything with at like every stage of that journey.

[54:23] Kevin Bianchi: Totally.

[54:24] Quincy Brown: But I also loved it with that came just like a very realistic candor about it too. Like a job, looking at it as a job.

[54:30] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah.

[54:31] Quincy Brown: Like it was nice to hear somebody say like to acknowledge, of course, the artistic value of the work, but also to just be like, sometimes it's harder than others. Like sometimes it feels like a job.

[54:40] Kevin Bianchi: And also like when she was talking about how special opening LA was because it was her opportunity to originate and Joe Mantello really kind of wanted her to do her own thing and scrap the Broadway version. It reminded me of like SJB kind of singing a similar tune when she was talking about opening the tour and same with Gently Green.

[54:56] Quincy Brown: And I guess I just like, I understand that they're different productions, but I guess in my mind, I never really realized how different of an experience it truly was to open a brand new production of a same show, a replica production of the same show.

[55:09] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah.

[55:10] Quincy Brown: And I don't know if that's the norm either. I think that that might just be Joe Mantello being a great director and putting equal attention into each of these new companies that pop up.

[55:18] Kevin Bianchi: Oh, that's interesting.

[55:19] Quincy Brown: When Wicked was launching a new tour, each of these new companies was being reviewed as its own production.

[55:25] Kevin Bianchi: I think also like, so then the stake of this like humongous show is on that. I guess I would love to talk to someone who opened one of the like Hamilton sit downs and see what that experience was like. Like, was it a like slot in the puzzle or was it like a kind of similar to this where they truly got to redo it?

[55:39] Kevin Bianchi: Because that feels like equal in weight, I guess.

[55:41] Quincy Brown: Yeah, because even like with A Book of Mormon, it's like there's like a way to get the comedy of that show.

[55:46] Kevin Bianchi: Right.

[55:47] Quincy Brown: So it's not you're not like digging into the depths of that show.

[55:50] Kevin Bianchi: Oh, and I mean, we shouldn't skip over the fact that it was so great to touch base with Eden about all of the work that she does in the arena of social and racial equality and justice and the Broadway and the equity situation. Like I really value how vocal she is in both of those spaces.

[56:06] Quincy Brown: And so it was really cool to touch base with her about that.

[56:09] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah.

[56:10] Quincy Brown: And to touch base with her like now in the timeline of everything I think was really cool and special. And it's nice too, because it's, you know, that's like a layer of the conversation of Wicked that we have like not really gotten to a natural place for us to discuss it yet.

[56:25] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah.

[56:26] Quincy Brown: And so it's cool to kind of come back with a, you know, a little bit of that. Really great conversation. Thank you for joining us, Eden.

[56:33] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah. Thank you, Eden.

[56:35] Quincy Brown: Let's take a second to give Kevin's Glinda Corner a moment of silence.

[56:39] Kevin Bianchi: May she rest in peace.

[56:42] Quincy Brown: And with that, we will never speak of it again.

[56:45] Kevin Bianchi: I think it's time for Stuck on SJB.

[56:49] Quincy Brown: I'm gonna have to work on that. I got to find where it sits in my voice right now.

[56:53] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah, the e-vowel is hard.

[56:55] Quincy Brown: The e-vowel is hard.

[56:58] Kevin Bianchi: Okay, so when I was tasked with coming up with this week's Stuck on SJB, I was happy because in the time that we've been away, it has been like gala and benefit season. So Ms. Block has been doing the circuit.

[57:07] Quincy Brown: Pounding the pavement, the digital pavement.

[57:10] Kevin Bianchi: Mama, she's got that ring light set up. She's got the glam. She's got Sebastian in the next room.

[57:15] Quincy Brown: Sebastian is her personal tech guy.

[57:18] Kevin Bianchi: There's tons of new SJB for us to delve into, so I'm really excited. And I'm sure there's still old SJB that we haven't delved into yet.

[57:25] Quincy Brown: We'll never run out.

[57:27] Kevin Bianchi: So what I would like to talk about today, and I picked this and then I giggled a little bit during the interview because I want to talk about Stephanie J. Block singing Waving Through a Window, which Eden referenced as what it feels like to be the standby in the original company.

[57:42] Quincy Brown: But, okay, Stephanie J. Block singing this song. First of all, have you watched this?

[57:46] Kevin Bianchi: Yes.

[57:47] Quincy Brown: Okay, I'm just making sure. First of all, it's like a fever dream. I want to know whose idea it was. What was the creative brief for that video?

[57:54] Kevin Bianchi: The execution of everything is so good. It's like well shot. But I'm like, what is this fever dream where Stephanie Jeanette Block, a disembodied, beautiful red gown of Stephanie J. Block, is like trailing behind me on the subway singing to me? I mean, what do I take to have that experience?

[58:12] Quincy Brown: It's also like never did I ever even think about hearing SJB sing Waving Through a Window. It's never crossed my mind. I didn't know I needed it until I had it. And I'm so glad it exists now.

[58:24] Kevin Bianchi: And it was good.

[58:25] Quincy Brown: It's so good. And she, the way that, waving through a window, she just drops that jaw. It comes out. It goes into it. It is so good.

[58:34] Kevin Bianchi: And also, like, I love the arrangements, which if I'm understanding the description of the video correctly, I believe Mary Mitchell Campbell did the arranging, which makes sense because they're exquisite.

[58:43] Quincy Brown: And so that's my stock on SJB this week. The inaugural stock on SJB for Summer of Ascent Men.

[58:50] Kevin Bianchi: Woohoo!

[58:51] Quincy Brown: Well, Quincy, I would imagine this episode is at least two and a half hours long at this point. So I feel like we can wrap it up.

[58:57] Kevin Bianchi: I am so happy to be back.

[58:59] Quincy Brown: Me too. I'm so excited to see what happens this summer.

[59:02] Kevin Bianchi: Your guess is as good as mine, Quincy. Hopefully by the time people are listening to this, we have a game plan.

[59:08] Quincy Brown: We have our shit a little more together.

[59:11] Kevin Bianchi: Before we go, we should just give a shout out to the girls over at Underrated Podcast for having us on while we were on hiatus.

[59:17] Quincy Brown: It felt good to flex our podcast muscles a little bit with them.

[59:20] Kevin Bianchi: Yeah, it kept us warm and we got to talk about leading ladies in Wicked that we don't talk about enough.

[59:26] Quincy Brown: Yeah. We got the opportunity to really dive into those ladies.

[59:29] Kevin Bianchi: So go listen to it if you haven't. It was a lot of fun.

[59:32] Quincy Brown: Yeah. Go listen if you haven't. Underrated Podcast. Mwah.

[59:36] Kevin Bianchi: So guys, we're not doing this every week.

[59:38] Quincy Brown: Yeah.

[59:39] Kevin Bianchi: We'll see you in two weeks, kids.

[59:41] Quincy Brown: In a fortnight.

[59:43] Kevin Bianchi: No.

[59:44] Quincy Brown: Yes?

[59:45] Kevin Bianchi: If he's wrong with that word, it's not a reflection of me.

[59:48] Quincy Brown: I'm not.

[59:49] Kevin Bianchi: I just Googled it, bitch.

[59:51] Quincy Brown: Bye.

[59:52] Kevin Bianchi: You've been listening to Sentimental Men.

[59:58] Quincy Brown: This episode was produced, edited, and hosted by Quincy Brown and Kevin Bianchi. Thanks to Julie DiMarzo for our thrillifying artwork. And thanks to you for tuning in. You can reach us at sentimentalmenpod at gmail.com or on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok at sentmenpod. That's S-E-N-T-M-E-N-P-O-D.

[1:00:15] Kevin Bianchi: Until next time, I'm Kevin.

[1:00:17] Quincy Brown: And I'm Quincy.