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[0:00] Tori Bullard: You're listening to Stage Door Podcast, the podcast celebrating theatre and creativity, from onstage mishaps to career-defining moments. Hosted by Thespians, myself, Tori, and co-host Eliza. Fortnightly, we will bring you industry professional guests, deep dives and more. Bonjour and welcome back to Stage Door Podcast for another one of our musical theatre deep dives, where we talk about the pros, cons, ups, downs, ins and outs of your favourite musicals. And joining us once again, we have the wonderful Gareth Isaac.

[0:36] Gareth Isaac: Hello everyone, lovely to be here.

[0:39] Tori Bullard: Hello!

[0:40] Gareth Isaac: Hi!

[0:40] Tori Bullard: Lovely to have you back. We're so keen to chat some more musicals.

[0:44] Gareth Isaac: It's always a thrill, always a thrill.

[0:47] Tori Bullard: And also back for the final deep dive of the year. After this episode, we have two more episodes for season three, and then we'll be taking a short hiatus, a short two-month hiatus, which is the longest Eliza and I have had off from the podcast since we started it three years ago. Yeah, so we're back with another deep dive as pervoted by you. But I think we should jump into it. So I'll pass it over to you, Eliza.

[1:13] Eliza Gunther: Yes. So before we get started, we would like to acknowledge the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation and the Tibal people of Ugera, the traditional custodians of this land on which we work, live, and record, and recognize their continuing connection to land, water, and community. So without further ado, let's get started with our deep dive topic. As voted by our audience, the show-stopping, jaw-dropping, so exciting smash hit, Moulin Rouge! Woo! Is that effective?

[1:46] Gareth Isaac: We'll get it in post.

[1:49] Eliza Gunther: Exactly, exactly. Based on the 2001 film of the same name, Moulin Rouge! tells the story of aspiring writer Christian who falls desperately in love with Satine, the sparkling diamond of the Moulin Rouge, a cabaret venue in the heart of Paris. Their courtship is troubled by jealous suitors and illness, and the revelation that their bohemian ideals of truth, beauty, freedom, and love may not be enough to see them through.

[2:16] Gareth Isaac: The original Baz Luhrmann film was transformed into a groundbreaking stage musical with book by John Logan and direction by Alex Timbers in 2016, when Australian producers Global Creatures set their sights on the IP. 2017 brought about a workshop period in New York with Aaron Tveit and Karen Olivo in the roles of Christian and Satine, which they would reprise in both the 2018 Boston production and finally the 2019 Broadway debut, which is currently still running at the Al Hirschfeld Theatre, having survived the 2020 COVID shutdown of Broadway.

[2:54] Gareth Isaac: The show was nominated for a massive 14 awards at the 74th Tony Awards and took home 10 of them, including Best Actor, Best Director, Best Choreographer, and Best Musical. With more than 70 songs making up its catalogue of jukebox hits, Moulin Rouge! has gone on to premiere on the West End, and an Australian version is currently touring the country and finds itself can-can-canning at Sydney's Capital Theatre.

[3:15] Eliza Gunther: We love it!

[3:18] Gareth Isaac: So many puns! Oh, sweet God.

[3:20] Eliza Gunther: Honestly, just keep letting me write the introductions and you'll keep getting quality content like this.

[3:26] Gareth Isaac: So you wonder why next season Gareth will mysteriously not be here.

[3:31] Eliza Gunther: Oh, that is a threat.

[3:36] Gareth Isaac: This is a joke. Naughty, naughty, naughty.

[3:39] Eliza Gunther: So we should open this one by clarifying, we are coming at this with a slightly spotty knowledge base. I myself have only ever seen the Broadway production of Moulin Rouge! back in 2019. And friends, what do you think? What's your experience?

[3:56] Gareth Isaac: For me, I have only listened, I've had a very hectic week and I've tried to find a bit of a, you know, slime tutorial, but have not been successful this week. So I've listened to a bunch of the soundtrack, done my research, that kind of thing. But that's kind of where I'm coming at with my knowledge of the shows, just from what visuals I have been able to find and things. So yeah, take that with a grain of salt, as you will. I'm sure things will change once I hopefully, I would love to see the Australian production of this show at some point. Hopefully it comes to Brisbane, that's my hope, but I don't know. I mean, we'll see.

[4:36] Eliza Gunther: And I'm lucky enough, I saw it only two weeks ago. Two weeks ago? Yeah, I saw it two weeks ago at the Capitol Theatre. So it's very fresh in my mind. And obviously we have a lot of friends and colleagues that are currently in this phenomenal show. Let me be the first to say, I don't know whether people agree with me, but it has very quickly become one of my favourite shows that I've seen. It's definitely a favourite theatre experience for me. The show itself, I don't know if I would say it's one of my favourites, as in just listening to it. It's not something that I necessarily go back to. I've got songs in this show that I absolutely love and love. I'm just going to jump into it. I love the arrangements.

There are some arrangements in this show that I really, really love. I can't say it's a show that I... I adore this movie. It is one of my all-time favourite movies ever. And I can't... I will say when the original Broadway cast recording dropped, I was like, yeah, it's, you know, it's not what I expected. It's not bad. In no way I think is it bad. There are definitely a lot of shows out there that I listen to and I'm like, I will never listen to you again. It was a really enjoyable show to listen to. But some of the arrangements in this show are so fun and are so clever. Like, I will talk about this more later, but Backstage Romance, I listen to this song multiple times a day. It is my favourite song.

It is my favourite number in the entire show. Yes, I love it. It was one of those ones. I'm not a dancer. I'm a solid mover, not a dancer. I have started practicing to do this dance because I'm so enamoured with the song and how it's done and watching it on stage. I have very physical reactions to things and this was like, I couldn't sit still.

[6:49] Gareth Isaac: Oh, I agree. That song, I was able to find a wicked clip of that one. I see this as a thing. I am coming at it with a spotty knowledge of the show and what I have seen of it. But I thought the dancing was unreal. I was getting goosebumps all over the shop. Like, the dancing in this show, from what I've seen, is just phenomenal. It's so striking. It's really dynamic, which kind of plays into the world that the movie kind of set up as well. It's very dynamic, hard-hitting. It's fast-paced. It's in your face. There's so many mashups and the arrangements of the songs are just wham, bam, thank you, ma'am. Let's change it every five seconds and keep you on your toes. That's what it sounds like to me.

But it was interesting because I wouldn't say that would be my favourite vocally, like the first half of it. For me, I go, does that work in the context of taking a pop song and trying to put it into the music theatre canon? But obviously, that's just from what I saw of that take. But I thought the dancing was phenomenal. The arrangement was absolutely phenomenal. But that is something that I think comes with this show is having the jukebox nature of it, having to pair that with the acting and the storytelling nature of the show can be pretty tricky for something like this.

[8:08] Eliza Gunther: I think we've landed on, really hit the nail on the head almost immediately. This show is a feast for the senses. It's almost a sensory overload in a sense. I keep saying the word sense. The show looks good. The show sounds amazing. The show is designed in such a way that it is a feast for the eyes. It is a gorgeous, beautiful sounding show. And I mentioned earlier, 70 different songs all interpolated throughout this two and a bit hour musical. It's an incredible feat of musical arrangement. And the choreography we mentioned, there are people being thrown around, dragged along the floor. The Tango de Roxanne remains one of my favourite pieces of choreography that I've ever seen. And it also made me realise, horribly, that I can never be in this kind of show. I have a good high kick, but that's by virtue of me being 70% leg.

[9:06] Gareth Isaac: Yes. Oh, I agree. I think, you're right, it's hard. I think for me, listening to it, now that I've seen it, I do come at listening, as you do with every show when you listen to it prior to seeing it. I now see it very differently now that I have seen it physicalised. I think it's hard with, see, I don't even know, because this is not, they've not done what you would traditionally, I think, do with a jukebox, where it is full songs, you know, where it is much more, you know, they will do the entirety of a song. It is so mashed up and arranged that there was certainly moments in the show where it felt natural, and it just felt like that's what it had always been. Like, Truth, Freedom, Beauty, Love, I think is maybe what the song is called, really loved that.

And when previously listening to it, it felt quite jarring, versus seeing it, it felt quite natural. It was really interesting getting the audience reaction to this show, because, let me tell you, the Australian cast are absolutely insane. They are phenomenal. Like, phenomenal. And I feel so blessed to have been able to go and see this show. The dancers, the actors, everything. Crazy talented. But when, you know, they started singing Royals, like Lorde Royals, the reaction of the audience was like a little bit chittery and giggly, and I totally see it. Because people are, I feel like, not used to having a jukebox musical done like this, where the songs have been taken so away from what they originally are.

Which I enjoyed, because I didn't feel... I sat somewhere in the middle. I didn't feel like I was watching a jukebox musical. It felt like something new. But like I was saying before, there were definitely moments where it felt so natural for how the songs were. And there were other moments where I was like, oh, I maybe would have liked to actually sit on some of the songs, like particular songs within certain mashups. I would have liked to sit on them a little bit longer, because I was starting to be pulled around too much with certain songs. And it was mainly in the intimate moments I found that happening.

[11:41] Eliza Gunther: Yeah, it's definitely one of those shows that you can see how it's really smart, the way that they have done it. Because not only have they changed some of the instrumentation of the songs, it just makes...

[11:54] Gareth Isaac: It makes the songs different that you don't realize that you're listening to that song until you like a couple seconds and you're like oh my god there's that song and you feel so smart that you know what the song is but it's also smart because audiences can sing along to it they know the lyrics of it which is something that works in the favor of the storytelling because they know what the lyric is then they go oh I love the way that they've put that spin on it or that lyric has now come alive in a way I've never thought about it that way and it's from like a marketing or like a keeping a show running it's very smart because it's super accessible to everyone because pop music it brings the MT lovers the pop music lovers and everyone in between who can enjoy the feast of a musical visually and also vocally.

[12:47] Gareth Isaac: Yes and this is where I think Moulin succeeds excels and the reason it's still doing so well despite pandemics and you know world ending events it knows what it is and it embraces what it is it is two things first and foremost it is a jukebox musical and it is a Baz Luhrmann film. Luhrmann leans so heavily on the extravagant and the wink and the nudge to the audience look at any of his movies so we're looking at Romeo and Juliet Strictly Ballroom the original Moulin Rouge film and now Elvis which is in and of itself again a feast for the senses so leaning into that energy and bringing it into the music saying hey here's a bit here's a song you know here's another song you know oh aren't you clever let's follow me along follow me on this journey and then we get to the big character songs.

I will say Satine singing Firework is something that to me I think we could have had a better song this is something for the composition because for me it was giving me trauma of you know that exercise in drama school where you get up and you recite your song as a monologue? Yes! And this is no shame to any actor who has ever done this role Karen Olivo Patrice Tepoche, Olympe de Chinzy these are all incredible actors but that song just comes out of nowhere everyone's like oh she's doing Firework that's cool but it doesn't further Satine's character and I wish Satine's character had so much more agency than she does that's all I'll say.

[14:20] Eliza Gunther: I definitely felt like I could feel specifically with that song it was one of those songs that kind of took me out of it a little bit. I feel like especially so I saw Patrice?

[14:35] Gareth Isaac: Yeah.

[14:36] Eliza Gunther: Yeah I saw Patrice. As Satine who is absolutely phenomenal and I can definitely see what they wanted from the song and it definitely it kind of got there was definitely moments in that song that I think work really well and there were moments in that song where I was like ah it's a it's a song from outside of the show you know but I found all of the arrangements were really creative and really gave so much opportunity and made it so different I think from you know your regular jukebox musicals but I think the thing for me and I don't know if it's because I just enjoyed the music so much and the dancing and the spectacle that I felt like the story I missed so much obviously you know it's very hard to take a two and a half three hour Baz Luhrmann film and condense it onto stage into a musical.

[15:46] Gareth Isaac: I agree. There were definitely some yeah there were definitely some moments where I felt like the lead up to Satine's a spoiler alert death if you haven't seen the movie that's been out for over 10 years um for oh my god over 20 years.

[16:02] Eliza Gunther: I was gonna say it was more than 10 years ago that was 2001 my dude.

[16:07] Gareth Isaac: Uh we are old now um.

[16:12] Eliza Gunther: Speak for yourself I'm a spring chicken.

[16:13] Gareth Isaac: There was I kind of felt like we uh very suddenly got to the end of the show um which you know it's hard because I feel like as a writer I would have been like no we need we need like another 30 minutes but also as a producer going nobody's gonna want to sit there for another 30 minutes you know having to make those shots and calls I can definitely see where that comes into play but I think this show is such and it's been said so many times is such a feast for the senses it is definitely I will say for anyone who is neurodivergent it is definitely overstimulating.

[16:55] Eliza Gunther: Um I was very very overstimulated um especially I think in the second half of the show um you know following Bad Romance where my is the opening number of the um second act I believe.

[17:13] Gareth Isaac: I those I just can't get over those arrangements I think I would never in a million years have thought Bad Romance and Toxic would be songs that would work well together but seamless and amazing and the dance. Sonia Teja the choreographer who is the first woman in 10 years to have won the Tony Award for best choreography of a musical.

[17:37] Eliza Gunther: Well deserved, well deserved.

[17:38] Gareth Isaac: Absolutely phenomenal and I can now firsthand can 100% see everything and the storytelling through dance as well which I feel like you definitely get in musicals obviously because they're musicals but it is so strong so strong it's mind-blowing what they have created on stage.

[18:06] Eliza Gunther: I think the dancing is really masterful in this in this show I mean it's extremely clever because the thing is that the Moulin Rouge is a real place and people the ones some of the world's best dancers dance at the Moulin Rouge so when you come and see a musical called the Moulin Rouge you're expecting some good dancing like at the very least and this show kind of gives you all the things that you want but way more it gives you you know even starting with the can-can number you know you go oh fantastic this is where I am I am in in the life of the Moulin Rouge and you almost transported to this complete other world and that's what they do through the set as well they completely transform you with this set that exterior to not even the stage that just is mind-blowing you walk in and it's a feast for your eyes and you can't believe that and that's what I think is so well done in this show is to highlight the dancing this is one of those shows that you would say is a dance show and you'd say it's but equally as much of a vocal masterpiece as well it's absolutely one of those shows where it's like the the triple threat show like yeah you need to be able to do them all and I feel like it is this show is an experience it's a spectacle it's phenomenal the show starts before the show starts there is a moment and I was mildly aware of this before going but there was a moment when they come the ushers which is obviously you know ushers are always saying you know don't don't film it don't take photos but there was a moment just as some of the cast start to come out and are just milling before the show doing their thing staring at you very sexually and intimidatingly um I don't know whether to be turned on or scared a bit of both take that as you will um but that was then like you know okay now no photos turn your phones off um so it is it's a it's a whole experience and I feel like also in seeing this show it was so phenomenal to see the actors it was both seeing the performers play these roles but also seeing these people that we know I was still able to see who they were this show allows their cast to still be themselves in these roles and bring who they are to these roles which is what I've noticed since seeing the Australian cast versus watching clips from the Tony Awards and clips from the West End um I think they performed on like Britain's Got Talent or something um since seeing that I can see these are not carbon copies of these ensemble roles or these main roles these people are taking it and making it their own and I feel like this is such um a company that allows them to do that and really promotes them to do that.

[21:16] Gareth Isaac: I think it's entirely about inviting you into the world of the Moulin Rouge by showing that these are actual people being allowed to have a say in what their characters do what their kind of personality is certainly they're being given archetypes based on the original Broadway that's that's how theatre works but being allowed to have this amount of spin and letting you see the people underneath the paint so to speak and the show itself invites people in we mentioned earlier the clever composition allowing people to follow along and say oh I know that one oh I know that one it becomes a Where's Wally musically but physically as you walk into the theatre the Capitol Theatre has been changed pretty dramatically you have the windmill on the left the elephant on the right the cast milling about and there has been a for those who haven't seen the show a particular style of thrust staging that has been added onto the front of the Capitol's stage with a small path down the middle almost a catwalk and two sort of u-bends around and in the dead center of those is audience seating you pay a little extra you get to sit in the middle once you're in you're in for good you can't leave during the middle of the show because they'll interrupt the choreography like you're not going to be interrupting someone's triple spin by getting up to have a wee but it just further cements the idea that the audience is meant to be a part of this show they are meant to be experiencing it as a visceral experience rather than just a passive one an active participant in the story and this is solidified by the top of the show being spotlight on Christian and addressing the audience directly as these events have already happened this is just the story and the retelling and then of course the emcee himself Harold Ziedler Simon Burke I adore I will die for that man very much enjoyed him comes out and just starts doing the Moulin Rouge show like oh shit it's the cabaret and now we're backstage oh there's drama there's drama behind the scenes and then we're invested almost immediately it's I've said it before it's a clever way of making sure your show can connect with its audience it's just fun.

[23:32] Eliza Gunther: Oh I agree I mean that whole opening section I think is stunning uh and correct me if I'm wrong this is correct right that the Lady Marmalade song starts like you know the whole next half of the show and that's we get into the show.

[24:18] Tori Bullard: Welcome back to Stage Door Podcast! Today, we are diving deep into the world of Moulin Rouge The Musical, and we have our favorite deep dive cohost, Gareth Isaac, with us!

[24:48] Eliza Gunther: Yes! We are so excited to talk about this spectacular show. There’s just so much to cover, from the movie to stage adaptation to the incredible choreography.

[25:18] Gareth Isaac: Absolutely! The way they’ve taken the film and transformed it into a stage production is just brilliant. The use of pop music really makes it accessible to a wider audience, don’t you think?

[25:48] Tori Bullard: Definitely! It’s like they’ve taken these iconic songs and woven them into the story in such a seamless way. It adds a whole new layer to the experience.

[26:18] Eliza Gunther: And the choreography! I mean, the cancan number is just insane. The energy and the precision of the dancers are mind-blowing.

[26:43] Gareth Isaac: Yes! The choreography is a character in itself. It tells a story and elevates the entire production. You can’t help but be captivated by it.

[27:13] Tori Bullard: And let’s not forget about the spectacle of it all. The set design, the costumes—everything is so visually stunning.

[27:43] Eliza Gunther: Right? It’s like you’re transported into this vibrant world. The colors, the lights, it’s all so immersive.

[28:08] Gareth Isaac: And the way they incorporate different styles and genres of music is just genius. It keeps the audience engaged and entertained throughout.

[28:38] Tori Bullard: I love how they blend the classic with the contemporary. It makes the show feel fresh and exciting.

[28:58] Eliza Gunther: Exactly! And the emotional depth of the story really resonates with the audience. It’s not just a visual feast; it has heart.

[29:11] Gareth Isaac: For sure! The characters are so well-developed, and you really feel for them as they navigate their struggles and desires.

[29:26] Tori Bullard: It’s a perfect mix of drama, romance, and of course, that signature Moulin Rouge flair!

[29:51] Eliza Gunther: I think that’s what makes it such a beloved show. It appeals to so many different people for various reasons.

[30:18] Gareth Isaac: And the performances! The cast brings so much talent and charisma to their roles. It’s hard not to be swept away by their energy.

[30:33] Tori Bullard: Absolutely! Each performer adds their unique touch, making the characters come alive on stage.

[31:03] Eliza Gunther: I could talk about this show for hours! There’s just so much to love about it.

[31:33] Gareth Isaac: Same here! It’s a true celebration of love, art, and the magic of theatre.

[31:48] Tori Bullard: And we want to hear from our listeners! What are your thoughts on Moulin Rouge The Musical? Let us know on our Instagram or via email.

[32:08] Eliza Gunther: Yes! We’d love to share your stories and feedback in our next episode.

[32:28] Gareth Isaac: And if you haven’t seen it yet, definitely check it out. You won’t regret it!

[32:48] Tori Bullard: That’s all for today’s deep dive. Thank you, Gareth, for joining us!

[33:08] Eliza Gunther: Yes, thank you! We can’t wait to dive into more theatre topics with you all next time.

[33:28] Gareth Isaac: Thanks for having me! It’s always a pleasure to chat about theatre with you both.

[33:58] Tori Bullard: Until next time, keep the theatre spirit alive!

[34:23] Eliza Gunther: Bye for now!

[34:53] Gareth Isaac: Bye!

[35:44] ♪ Musical number: "Only Girl in a Material World" — performed by Unknown performer ♪

[36:05] ♪ Musical number: "Doing What You Like" — performed by Unknown performer ♪

[37:00] ♪ Musical number: "Crazy Rolling" — performed by Unknown performer ♪

[38:09] Tori Bullard: I will die mad. I will die mad. This is the first time I've gotten to play in so long. Wrapping things up.

[40:01] Gareth Isaac: I'm not even up against anyone.

[41:01] Tori Bullard: Tony Award.

[41:31] Gareth Isaac: Tony Award.

[42:01] Tori Bullard: Tina Turner Musical.

[42:31] Gareth Isaac: Moulin Rouge! Some roles aren't so gendered anymore. You know what I mean? And we have these gendered labels. Which now just doesn't seem... Which leads to the question of when it comes to the awards. And I'm very curious to see how this pans out. Because we know change takes time. Much to everyone's constant frustration. The foundations have to be built. And it takes time. But I'm very curious. Especially when you look at shows like Jagged. Which are so much about the queer... You know, about story. Queer stories about young people. You know, having these idealised versions of their world in their mind. And then realising that that's not what's happening. And so I'm very curious to see how it progresses moving forward.

Because I don't necessarily want to minimise the amount of awards that there are. Because I feel like already there are so few. And you know, they're such coveted as they are. So I feel like you wouldn't want to minimise the amount of awards. But then needing to come up with much more gender neutral... And much more... Categories. Categories. Much more open minded about what exactly they're judging. And how to award that, if that makes sense. Like, certain musicals like The Supremes. And A Strange Loop. And things like that. Things like Six. Where does this fall? What is this categorised as? How do you make it more inclusive in general?

[44:46] Tori Bullard: No, I agree. I think that it's a really interesting topic that we've just brought up. That I think... I would be so interested to hear if anyone listening has any ideas on that as well. And what you think on that kind of thing. Like, send us a DM. Because I'm interested to start... I don't know. It's a really interesting discussion to have. So, yeah. It would be interesting to hear other people's opinions on that. Because it's definitely one of those tricky things with award shows like Tony Awards. This show is phenomenal. I really enjoyed actually having a little look into it. I'm really hoping to get to see this show live. The Australian version. I know there's some incredible, incredible performers a part of it. And it's only... I'm sure it's only grown more and more since it opened. Our own podcast alum, Liv, is one of the lady Ms.

[45:34] Gareth Isaac: Yes! Olivia Vasquez. Much love. An absolute angel of a human. And just such an out-of-this-world performer. Can't even comprehend. Oh my god. Insane. Insane. But, yeah. So it's been really fun getting to chat a little bit of Moulin Rouge! I think it's such a fantastic musical. If you guys want to go and see Moulin Rouge! as well, and see it while it's in Australia, you can go to moulinrougemusical.com. And you can get tickets there. It's currently at the Capital Theatre in Sydney. And then it will be in Perth. And then back in Melbourne. So make sure you guys catch tickets if you're in any of those cities, even if you're not in those cities, because it is not one to miss. And I certainly am hoping to see it sometime in the near future. It is so... it's spectacular, spectacular.

[46:29] Tori Bullard: Anyway, we've come to the end, and this is our last Deep Dive of the Year. Thank you so much, Gareth, for joining us again for another season.

[46:36] Gareth Isaac: You're so welcome, guys. It's always a thrill to come on and nerd out with you guys. I love it.

[46:41] Tori Bullard: Gareth will be back next season as long as his availability lines up, because, you know, he's busy being successful and married Poppins. Imagine being a star, employed.

[46:51] Gareth Isaac: I wouldn't know.

[46:52] Tori Bullard: Crazy. I wouldn't know about being a star, but I'm certainly employed. And I'm bringing my laptop with me everywhere. I will work out all the technical kinks, and I'm making sure I'm coming back next year.

[47:02] Gareth Isaac: Yes! Absolutely iconic. I can't wait for Poppins to come to Brisbane. That's where we are. It's coming to Brisbane, so guys, get tickets. I know all my Brisbane friends and I are all going to be hitting up Poppins, because we're keen. And I can't wait to say hello and see you when you come up. It'll be fantastic. We might record an episode together. Who knows? But anyway, guys, we hope you have enjoyed this year's lot of Deep Dives. We've enjoyed doing it for you. We can't wait for next year, but until then, stay happy, healthy, and safe, and we'll see you then. Bye!