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[0:07] Gordon Cox: Welcome to Stagecraft, Variety's theater podcast, bringing you backstage and behind the scenes with the stars, creators, and industry leaders who are shaping the future of the theater business, on Broadway, off Broadway, and around the world.

[0:20] Gordon Cox: I'm your host, Gordon Cox.

[0:22] Gordon Cox: On this special giant-sized episode of Stagecraft, we present an audio version of our Variety Streaming Room conversation with the cast and creators of Moulin Rouge the Musical.

[0:32] Gordon Cox: Before the pandemic put Broadway on pause in mid-March, Moulin Rouge had become one of the biggest box office successes of the abbreviated 2019-2020 season, and it's now nominated for 14 Tony Awards, including Best Musical.

[0:46] Gordon Cox: For this conversation, we got a big group of the show's nominated collaborators together to talk about how they put Moulin Rouge together, how they felt when it all came to a halt, and why, in a year of upheavals, they think the show's message feels even more relevant now than it ever did.

[1:01] Gordon Cox: Coming up, you'll hear from director Alex Timbers, writer John Logan, music supervisor, orchestrator and arranger Justin Levine, and choreographer Sonia Taya, plus actors Karen Olivo, Aaron Tavate, Danny Berstein, Sa Angouja, and Robin Herder.

[1:16] Gordon Cox: But we'll start by checking in with a guy who first brought Moulin Rouge to life on the big screen, director Baz Luhrmann.

[1:24] Gordon Cox: Hi, I'm Gordon Cox, the contributing theater editor at Variety, and I'm very excited to welcome you to this exclusive QA with the cast and creatives of Moulin Rouge the Musical.

[1:34] Gordon Cox: We've got a great lineup of speakers, but I wanted to kick off by welcoming Baz Luhrmann, the director of Moulin Rouge the Movie, and talking with him a bit about the journey of Moulin Rouge from the big screen to Broadway.

[1:47] Gordon Cox: Hi Baz, thanks for joining me.

[1:49] Baz Luhrmann: Hey Gordon, how are you?

[1:51] Gordon Cox: I'm great.

[1:53] Baz Luhrmann: Moulin Rouge premiered almost 20 years ago now, back in 2001.

[1:59] Gordon Cox: Thanks for reminding me of that.

[2:00] Baz Luhrmann: And it played a major role in revitalizing the movie musical as a genre. Thinking back to the late 90s, you'd just finished your movie Romeo and Juliet, and you were coming up with the idea that would become Moulin Rouge, what was the driving force behind the idea and what did you want to accomplish with it?

[2:20] Baz Luhrmann: Well, I funnily enough, look, I get all my dates and things horrendously mixed up, and I'm not great with you know numbers of you know, ask any studio. Um, but I do remember way back even before Romeo and Juliet, I was I there are these things I I've always kind of just said I'd say, like, wouldn't it be great if? And often I think, well, that'll be easy. And um, the funny thing was I was going, look, as a child growing up in a very small town, we had a black and white television, one channel, and we also ran the local cinema for a while. So in a period in which a lot of people were exposed to the new wave and things like that, which I later became exposed to in cinema, I was being exposed to a lot of because we because they got a lot of what they call dumped down, like package movies, Sunday movies, and they were things like the red shoes, funny enough, in black and white, but you know, old musicals, top hat, things like that.

So I had a great love of the musical just growing up, and I always thought, gee, gee, if you look at it, musicals have a form that they take based on what how you decode musical form in a given period, a given time.

[3:34] Baz Luhrmann: So if you do an examination of the journey of the musical, you know, Top Hat is so stylized that you know, Fred and Ginger are on a gloss floor with some drags, and that's Venice, you know. Do you get like into the later 60s? I'm just plucking a few out of there, you know, uh, Sound of Music starts to go outside, and you've got Nazis in it, albeit you know, they're kind of nice brown shirts from my memory. Yeah, there's a few gags in Sound of Music, we won't go into that. But like you get the like 70s, Cabaret, which is kind of you know, psychological realism, you know, everything's realist, right? And Cabaret uses Greek chorusing to comment on the story. You know, you have to justify the existence of the music, it just doesn't come out of nowhere, or the singing.

You know, a great device, brilliant movie. I mean, I think it's a masterful piece. Uh so you know, I'm just thinking uh back then in the mid-90s, oh, what should I do next? And I've been doing some opera, I was doing a lot of opera at the time, I did a Midsummer Night's Dream, and I was I actually researched that in India. And while I was in India, because I'd set it in India, uh, Sim and I and then and guy called Bill Marin, we experienced our first Bollywood movie. And what was incredible about that experience was apart from there were like you know, 2,000 people in the cinema, but that form that could have drama, quite serious drama, then crazy wild musical numbers, stand-up comedy. Now, when I describe that, that starts to sound a bit like Shakespeare, you know.

So I thought, like, wow, oh, how would you decode the musical for now? That was kind of my my go, my my beginning. Anyway, long story short, I was walking up a hill with Craig Pierce, and I was going through all my ideas and thinking what I should do, and been working on it for about a week, and then I went like, yeah, the musical, I should do the musical. And we're like, that'd be quite complicated. So I'll just do that quick idea about a Shakespeare first, you know, three years later, Romeo and Juliet gets finished. So it was really a desire to find a way to reconnect audiences with musical storytelling that wasn't particularly ironic. I mean, I was a great fan of like Grease and things like that when I was growing up, you know. But they had irony about them. The musical had we kind of, you know, had to be sort of ironic and funny, you know. So that was inspiration, just to read music theater cinema.

[5:56] Baz Luhrmann: And the film went on to have quite a legacy. It's had quite uh quite a bit of longevity in terms of its uh popularity and its sort of influence. What for you was sort of most surprising and or satisfying about the life that the film went on to have?

[6:14] Baz Luhrmann: I mean, Gordon, it's hard to think now, right? But when I was just stating it, like two years before I made it, or around the period I was writing and working with Craig and musicians and all these musicians. I mean, I mean, what the thing that was remarkable was that taking a cue, uh actually, if you think of it, a lot of cinema, cinematic musicals, there was a period in which most of them coming from the stage. So they invented a kind of theatrical cinematic language, right? And I wanted to quote that and yet find some new way as well, sort of mix them in codes, you know. Right. But one of the codes of the old musical was that it wasn't always all new music. You know, sometimes they'd say, you know, six or seven new songs, but most of the music was music that had been in other shows that were sing alongs.

It was pop music, popular music. And so a lot often they were taking popular music that was on the radio and putting it into musicals. So people had something to connect with. And I thought, well, I mean, what at one stage I was working with Craig, and we were trying to solve the idea. Well, if Christian is a poet and he's a genius, we actually attempted to write genius poetry. And quite remarkably, when we read it out, people didn't feel they weren't sure if it was genius poetry. Some even thought it was perhaps bad. So how do we show that someone's a genius musically? And so I brought back this idea of could we marry the idea of popular vernacular music? It wasn't necessarily show music, you know, like musicals had fallen into a place whereby not now, but there was a nostalgia about the music. It had to feel a bit like old musicals. Whereas, in fact, when they were written, the music was pop music, it was just the music that was on the radio. So uh that's how that two ideas came together.

[8:03] Baz Luhrmann: It's worth remembering, Gordon, that it was very controversial when it opened. I mean, I cannot tell you. You'd think I'd made a slasher film or something, but I think High Magazine had the two Richards. I might have got this wrong. And I think Richard, one Richard thought it was the best second best movie of the year, and the other Richard said it was the worst movie of the year. So, you know, Google were quite fluid about it. Right. But they like that about most of the things I do, and they're probably right, you know. I don't know. I just I just try and tell stories the way that I am, I think, as a person, you know. I'm a bit of a Moulin Rouge musical person. And it seems like it seems like a natural idea to look at Moulin Rouge, the film and think, oh, this belongs on a stage. At what point did you actually start thinking about that and taking that idea seriously?

[8:54] Baz Luhrmann: I mean, I uh one thing's for sure, almost all my shows could end up on a stage quite easily. Right. I mean, Strictly Ballroom, Romeo and Juliet thinking about doing that. Um, you know, Gatsby could easily be a stage production, there's been many goes of that. Uh, you know, and even my current uh little piece I'm working on could easily end up on a stage. But uh Moulin Rouge above all else, because it was a musical. And the thing is that I think I mean from day one, really, from when we were making it, but it was always uh, you know, Carmen Pavlovich has a great company with Jerry, and they're really great company because they really stick behind new ideas and they stay with things. And I I had a go at doing a version of Strictly Ballroom, and it did quite well down here.

But what I realized was that when I made these shows, I was a certain age, you know, I was expressing something very personal, even though you might not think it if you see the shows. They the underlying mythology, the underlying idea was something that I that was sort of petrol in my creative tank that I was feeling. I went back to visit these shows, and I'm like, hang on, I'm not, you know, I was like late 30s when I did Moulin Rouge, you know. You're talking to a guy in his late 50s now, and I realized that what I should be doing, and I kind of feel like this in creativity overall, I really want to spend my energy in handing over, passing on, encouraging, supporting new artists that are coming up.

And I happened to be, Carmen I were talking about it, and I happened to be at a friend's place for dinner. And uh, this friend of mine is very good at putting the right people around a dinner table. And I was sitting next to Alex Timbers, whose show I absolutely loved, I just thought, wow, and bloody bloody Andrew Jackson, and he kind of had a sensibility that I thought might have been, you know, uh, you know, if theatrical language were people that we might have been relatives in some way. And I just looked him in the eye and I said, you know, I'm thinking doing Moulin Rouge, how would you feel about that? And he was pretty positive about the idea, actually.

[10:50] Gordon Cox: And so then how did you work with Alex as the show developed? What was that conversation like?

[10:56] Baz Luhrmann: I'm glad you bring it up because I really want to be clear on the record for this I myself growing up always gravitated towards, you know, either a producing environment or a financing environment of trust and support, where they would sort of go like, well, it's kind of not what I would do. It's a bit different, or maybe even very different. But they supported the process and they believed in me as a young creative. And so with Alex, I took the same attitude with him, the team he chose, which were brilliant, um, and a lot of his choices. And look, I sometimes use the expression I'm Uncle Baz, you know, I would, I I it was it was his journey as the director. It was that team's creative road.

I absolutely came in as Uncle Baz and gave notes. And there was a time relating around the second act when they were trying to sort some things out, and I think I was relatively helpful there as a as really the representative of the audience of going, look, as an audience, I really understand what you're doing, but I don't understand how the A goes to B to C. That's one thing. But I tell you something that's really worth in worth saying and very important, is that along the road, Alex and his team were making choices where I went like, mmm, I'm not sure I'd do that. And you know, I remembered the voices of those that supported my creative journey, and I went, but I'm here to create to support you.

This is your telling of Moulin Rouge, and you know, I'm gonna support that choice. It was like they're gonna add in the new music, and I thought, well, be careful you don't take this song out or that song out because there's a fan base. But actually, in the end, the idea of it as a new postmodern musical, which some people use that title. I'm not wedded to postmodern musical, but it is nonetheless, it's a very old idea, the form of Moulin Rouge, done in a very new way with some quite lateral ideas. So, in the same way that hip hop music, which I'm enamored of and have always been inspired by and went on a big journey with the Get Down, took existing music and repurposed it to make new music and new storytelling.

That's what that's the underlying code of Moulin Rouge. And of course, you know, in the Bronx when hip hop started, they would thought those crazy kids, that'll never go anywhere, you know. And that's kind of the journey of Moulin Rouge. So I think the conceit of Moulin Rouge is so robust that all you needed was someone who was a really great storyteller, and any choice they made would have been the right one.

[13:34] Baz Luhrmann: And so I that's what I want to say, really, Gordon, way too long away. And now that you've seen the show, uh, however many times you've seen it by now.

[13:38] Gordon Cox: Quite a few times with a lot of large plastic cups of gin.

[13:49] Baz Luhrmann: Sure, yes. What do you appreciate most about how the show turned out and the way it both kind of honors what you did and then becomes its own thing?

[13:57] Baz Luhrmann: Yeah, Gordon, that's good. I it's the first time anything I had anything to do with it. All my films I kind of never see again. I turn up at events and wave them in and stuff, but I never sit there and go, I must watch them. Um, it's the first time I've gone to something that I was you know, central to the creation of, like a parent. Where at a certain point I forgot it was mine, and I came only as an audience. And what I was reminded about was yes, it is fun. It's quite moving. I mean, Karen on some nights with Hearts Out, and you know, Aaron, they can be really, I mean, they they really do. There is an emotion there, but uh, but overwhelmingly, the theme of the show is about the Bohemian ideal.

Now that's said in a comic way: truth, beauty, freedom, and love. But I think, I think, even in the particularly in the world we are in now, which is a world we don't know what it is, that those ideals of compassion of young artists trying to, you know, put on a show. Like, look now, I think, really think. I'm surrounded by by a young team, and uh, one of them, they they come from theater in London, people have no creative work.

[15:04] Baz Luhrmann: The situation on Broadway just, uh, rips your heart out, you know. You know things are bad. Shakespeare knew things were bad when you couldn't, when you had to close theaters. And so I think about young, the ideals and the idea of creative ideals and fighting to put on a show and to tell a story that has a point to it, you know, that means something that uplifts the spirit. So that they're the things that started to touch me later on. I realized I would see such a variety of audiences, some audiences who traditionally didn't go to the theater and coming out of there, and some traditional theatergoers coming out of there and uplifted and moved and ready. I think having experienced what the theater should do, which is to reinvigorate the soul and the spirit, and you know, give you a, give an odd hit shunned to sing as well.

Of, uh, anything on the journey of Moulin Rouge, the musical that I did that was, uh, the right thing and the calm Pavlovich got right on board with was to choose the right captain of the story, the new director. And um, I'd like to introduce you now. Here is Alex Timbers. Alex, it turns out you had a pretty strong connection already to Moulin, Moulin Rouge, the movie, even before Baz talked to you about the project. Can you tell us a little bit about that and how that ended up informing, uh, how you brought Moulin Rouge to the stage?

[16:24] Alex Timbers: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I remember seeing the film in 2001 and just loving it. And then for the past 20 years, I've had my own theater company. Uh, and the work I do in that theater company and outside of it, a lot of that work is about the sort of collision between history and politics and popular music. So when, uh, Baz reached out, I think like seven years ago, uh, I, it felt like Kismet. I feel like it's fair to say that Moulin Rouge the movie is kind of a love letter to movie musicals. Is it similar, similarly on stage? Is it a music? Is it a love letter to Broadway musicals when you, um, thought about turning that on the stage?

[17:02] Baz Luhrmann: That's a fantastic question. Um, yeah, the movie is like, you know, the references to the blue angel, to American in Paris, Gentlemen Prefer Blondes, it's like a Cinephile's dream. And so when John, Justin, and Sony and I were starting on this, we definitely were thinking about, is this, is it a Valentine to Broadway and a Valentine to theater? And so that was kind of the launch. And, and you know, as we go through the show, we can talk about the sort of different reference points, but that was definitely at the forefront of our minds. I mean, it's a, you know, this is a story about show people. Um, it's all, you know, everyone in the cast is an artist in a way, and so it felt really important to lean into that.

And I think now more than ever, the story about, you know, a theater that's being taken away and the resilience and fortitude of artists. I think the show, uh, to me personally was very inspiring a year ago. And now it's like something I'm really holding on to, the message of the show. And the musical vernacular of the stage version is this idea of a mashup, like it sort of mashes up, uh, a lot of songs that not unlike the movie brings in, you know, we're anachronistic, um, but they are often, uh, you know, kind of smash back to back a lot of these songs and these music numbers. How, what prompted that and how does that sort of translate into the overall production?

[18:14] Alex Timbers: The DNA of the, you know, of that movie is this, this like fundamental sort of like wild big swing idea that I think totally works, which is that how do you know that Christian's the greatest, you know, poet of the last century? Well, he draws on, you know, he, he's, you know, the author of all the greatest pop hits of the last century. And so, um, you know, immediately it's emotionally triggers all these things as opposed to us trying to sort of say this is the greatest lyric ever written or the great, you know. Um, and so it's, it's, it's a great vocabulary. And so it felt like a huge opportunity when doing the stage show to pull on the last 20 years of music that's happened in the intervening period.

And I think, you know, Justin and his team have done a remarkable job of that. As we're talking about all the new music that goes in, we should also say that some of the favorites from the film, uh, are in there as well, including a song called Come What May. We will be premiering a new video, an unseen, previously unseen video of Come What May, right after this discussion. Before we get to all that, um, tell us a little bit about how this idea of the mashup kind of, uh, manifests, uh, in the show overall and sort of the design and the approach to the physicalizing the world.

[19:24] Alex Timbers: So one of the things that was really important to us was this idea, you know, the movie's so immersive. And I think that in the stage adaptation, the two things that were at the forefront of our minds, just every step of the way were emotion and community. And so one of the first choices was how do we take that kind of immersive quality, kick over the footlights and embrace the audience, bring them into the Moulin Rouge. And so that's done in a number of different ways. That's, uh, through, you know, pass around and runways and a 360 design by Derek McLean, that where if you're in the last seat of the balcony or you're in the front row, you're as much a part of the show. And for me, that's sort of a fundamental value of theater.

You know, I've done like nine Broadway shows, and every one of them has direct address, because I think that celebration of that sacred act of us all making being a part of a story together on either side of the footlights is really important. And I think that extends to, you know, the music, taking stuff that feels period, taking stuff that feels, uh, contemporary and mashing them together as a lens to look at how do we make the, how do we look at the present through looking at the past. And so I think that's the value of the mashup. And I think that's what, you know, the acting company and the rest of the creative team is really taking to heart.

[20:34] Alex Timbers: Yeah. And speaking of that creative team, uh, please introduce the, uh, three folks, uh, who you worked with very closely on this, um, and tell us about who they are and why they were the right people to work with for this project.

[20:47] Baz Luhrmann: I would love to. Uh, so I think, you know, talking about your the mashup question, it was also sort of a value in assembling the team and think about people who come from different walks of life and have different experiences. So I think that the three people I'm about to, you know, introduce, all four of us sort of come at theater in a different way, but hold the same sort of values, dear. And so the, the first, you know, in theater, it all starts with the writing. And so that's the amazing John Logan, is our book writer. Uh, you know, he's this incredible playwright who wrote Red, but he also wrote Skyfall and Penny Dreadful and Gladiator. And I think he's someone like me that loves looking at the present through the past, and also has this like real sort of sense of grit and authenticity in the way he writes, and it was perfect for Moulin Rouge.

Um, so that, so that's John. Then we have Justin Levine, music supervisor, someone I've known for over 10 years. We've done so many shows together, beginning with Bloody Andrew Jackson, which was the emo rock musical set in the 1820s, bizarrely. Um, and he's, he's just a genius. He's a composer, he's a music director, he's an arranger, he wrote an original song for this, he did vocal arrangements, he sort of did everything. Um, and, uh, and so, and also has a, this cabaret act, which is amazing, where he takes like R. Kelly songs and puts them in an 18 uh 1930s vernacular. So genius. Uh, so that's Justin Levine. And then we have Sonia Taya, who really marries the world of I think theater, pop concert.

She's worked with Miley Cyrus and Madonna and Nicki Minaj and concert dance, and just brings this like beauty and expressiveness and wit to everything she does. So let's bring the three of those folks on.

[22:25] Baz Luhrmann: Hi, everyone.

[22:27] John Logan: Hey.

[22:27] Baz Luhrmann: Um, John, let's start with you. Moulin Rouge is a show that is based on a movie, and all the music, most of the music is pre-existing, but you approached it as an original musical. Tell us what that means and how that defined your approach.

[22:43] John Logan: Yeah, I mean, from the very beginning, the first conversations with Alex, we talked about the difference between theater and cinema. And part of the glory of the film is it's so cinematic. It's whip pans, dissolves, and close-ups. And Baz makes incredible use of every conceivable resource that film offers. And on stage, none of those are possible. You're looking at a proscenium. And so we had to look at it in terms of telling this story without those cinematic devices. But what we had is the power of theater, which is you can see a character, you can get to know them, they can express themselves through song or dance in a very organic way that the audience embraces. So the first thing was looking at the rub between cinema and theater, and then seeing how the best theatrical version of this, uh, could evolve for us with all the sort of the standard things we love in musical theater. The 11 o'clock number, the character song, you know, the comedy song, the big dance number, and how that could all weave into the storytelling.

[23:45] John Logan: Right. And so, as you're thinking about the structure of the show and like rethinking these characters, you're also thinking about the music and the songs and what songs will be used for what numbers and when they will come in. And so I wonder if you and Justin could tell us a little bit about kind of how you, how you work together and how decisions were made about what moments would sing and the ways in which they would sing.

[24:12] John Logan: Well, I'll, I'll start and then then hand over to Justin. I mean, what Alex and Justin and I did is we spent, we spent, uh, a weekend in a New York hotel locked in with a lot of note cards, uh, and a story saying, all right, here's the moment where Satine is going to express her emotion through song. It's her first song, it's the first time anyone sings alone on stage. What's it going to be? And then we discussed options. You know, Alex will bring in options, Justin will bring in options, I would bring in options, and we'd explore them. And Justin has, and I say this quite literally, the most encyclopedic knowledge of music I have ever experienced in my life from completely cutting edge contemporary to like art songs from 1912, you would never want to hear again.

But he has them all at his fingertips. So he would play things. He would like to suggest a song and then play a version of it to see how it could fit the emotion of the character. Because we were all about, and I think you guys will agree, emotion and storytelling in terms of song choices. Is that fair, Justin? What do you think?

[25:12] Justin Levine: Absolutely. And just to add to that, during this last weekend that we spent together, the three of us, I felt like I was actually attending a master class in adapting a film to the stage, because I was essentially just trying to absorb, you know, and keep up with this conversation of really examining how these elements of film that we don't have at our disposal would have to translate into a different way of telling the story. For example, uh, what the envelope of the world would be. And so I found myself very early on just making a very long dream list of, uh, songs and sounds that felt like they could, um, live in these characters' uh mouths and world. Um, so, uh, interestingly enough, I am somebody who often really responds to a hook or, um, something that sort of starts from a musical place.

And, um, find even to this very day, I'll listen to songs that I've loved for years and only now suddenly, because of the show actually, really dial down into the lyrics and what, what the meaning of those songs are. And so as a result, I really ended up going on a deep dive into, um, lyrical content to ensure that it was essentially doing what oftentimes is the challenge with, uh, some call a jukebox musical, which is to, um, continue to tell the story and to express, uh, a character's emotions organically.

[26:59] John Logan: And how did you think about when to use a single song versus, you know, bits of song? You know, there's not one sequence that is what, like 80 songs or something, uh, right? Like how, how are those decisions made in terms of how what the story, what the song arc would be?

[27:16] Justin Levine: Well, so that definitely started, um, in the early conversations that we had. We spotted songs, um, as if we were starting to write the show from the ground up, uh, as if it were a completely original story. And so, uh, before I went into, uh, the mode of working these songs, I already knew from our discussions what really the task of the song was. And one of the first big revelations I had in starting this job was that, um, musical theater songs very often have an argument in them or have a question or a problem, and then a bridge that maybe changes your mind, and then a new direction, and that, uh, a pop song very often can be about one thing from start to finish. Not that I mean there are so many great pop songs that have revelations inside of them, but that, um, very often a pop song can just be about a feeling or a moment, and so that's where actually this idea of the mashup became very useful, because what we were able to do is if we knew that, uh, a song was perfect for conveying one aspect of this task for that musical moment, there was another song that would both musically and lyrically interact with that song.

So, in the case of the Elephant Love Medley, that was sort of taking that to the next level because in the film version, what they brilliantly did was they had it so that, um, Christian is singing a pop song, and then Satine responds with that same melody, but rewriting the lyrics to refute the point that he's just made. And, um, because we'd been talking about very early on, um, Satine having, uh, more power and more agency in, in the story, I wanted her to be able to bring in her own music. And so, in, in our version of the Elephant Love Medley, Satine is bringing, is responding to Christian's, um, you know, proclamation of love with anti-love songs. And so, um, that's just, that's sort of the most hyperactive example of how using different songs could be useful to essentially create a conversation.

[29:45] Alex Timbers: Right. And of course, uh, to go along with all this music, there is dance, um, but which brings us to you, Sonia. Um, as John mentioned, the movie is, and in many ways, the dance sequences of the movie are sort of defined by this kind of kinetic editing and the super quick cuts that, uh, obviously you cannot do on stage.

[30:03] Baz Luhrmann: So, how did you think about creating a dance for the Moulin Rouge, the music on stage that had the same feeling or that had a different feeling that you felt would be appropriate to the start? I really wanted to lean into that type of whiplash overt emotion that I felt when I watched the film. And I enjoy on my own to mess with momentum and gravity. I get really sad that what goes up must come down. I get really sad that the pace there it's really difficult to have sudden stops. I test those, the science of life often in my dancing. And I work in a highly physical way. So the sweatiness and the steady cam, real cam, that the shifting of that I really try to hold on to in the momentum and in the dynamic shifts in my choreography.

Quite challenging, but really fun. Because that's what I emotionally connected to so much was the grunt and the sweat that you saw in the film and the urgency of fleeing and wanting and the desire of love you felt because of the swiftness of the film and because of the urgency that you felt. And that type of urgency I really tried to find in the movement. And also there was so much excess in it as well, and it lives and breathes in excess. So I piled a bunch on and edited accordingly, but it wasn't just for excess momentum or pile sake. It was because it was provoking a feeling and a thought and to celebrate dance in this way where you have dance sequences that move without words for without dialogue for a long period of time and you can still feel like it's carrying the story and you are clear on the story and it's driving the story is really it's the biggest blessing of a show to choreograph. It's been such a gift.

[32:15] Gordon Cox: I wonder if all four of you now could sort of walk us through kind of an anatomy of a scene, like and the process of creating it. I feel like the opening number is the one that makes a lot of sense to sort of take us through. Can you tell us about sort of how you conceived that number and then how you executed it? Alex, let's start with you.

[32:33] Alex Timbers: Sure, sure, sure. You know, I think one of the first thoughts was, you know, like the movie starts in England, and we wanted the wraparound of the film of the stage show to be in the Moulin Rouge. You walk into that place from the beginning, and that's the design you're not back on your heels by. So the first person you really meet are these four what we call the Lady M's who start our show with Lady Marmalade, and then you meet our MC Harold Ziedler. And so I think, you know, some of the references we were excited about, and I'll let the others speak about these, but you know, it's a cabaret fiddler, meaning, you know, here's the aristocracy, here's the proletariats. But then also our references also, you know, just because we're talking about baths and references, ran all the way over to the Chicago Bowl.

So I went to a high school outside of Chicago. That's something that John and I have in common. And one of the things, you know, I was always thinking about in the 90s was, you know, how the Chicago Bulls entered. And so when we have the Duke enter, we do follow the same cue sequence. We black out the lights, and then we go click like click like click light blast, Ballyhoo, and then they all do a rock and roll fly-in to reveal him. And that kind of excitement, as if he's Michael Jordan, that's what we wanted for this opening number. And that kind of energy just keeps topping itself.

[33:59] Baz Luhrmann: Yeah, and narratively, it's about when you introduce characters, at what point do you meet them? And as Alex said, our whole idea is you take the audience, you grab my lapels and say, Welcome to the Moulin Rouge. And that's Ziedler's job, you know, because he has so much power working with the Lady M's, with our four sort of protagonist dancer singers there, who like create the world and into that world, we then bring characters one at a time. The only thing that we thought was very important is that we don't introduce Satine, our female lead in this opening sequence, that we keep her back so we can meet her when we've met Christian. So we meet the man who is searching for love, searching for meaning, and then at the same time, he meets his love. So we wanted to keep sort of like sateze the audience with the idea of Satine, but not actually see her till her entrance.

[34:50] Gordon Cox: And then how does that manifest musically? Justin, what was your work for the musical side of this?

[34:59] Justin Levine: I don't even know where to begin on this one. And I'm trying to also remember. But yeah, I would say, you know, to Alex's point, thank you, Alex, for referencing cabaret and fiddler, that really we were looking primarily for motifs. And so really trying to identify what sounds and references would be the best way to hook the audience into these different characters and groups within the world. And so that was really where I was coming from at this point, because both specifically for the opening and in general, you know, one of the advantages of working with known music is that you are essentially able to, in a split second, from the moment that the audience recognizes the hook of the song, tap into an emotional history that the audience has to that song.

And so that was a big driving force with our work. And of course, you know, I think we all one thing we definitely all agreed on was that Lady Marmalade was going to open us, open up the show and take us into the world of it. So that always felt right as the baseline and envelope of the opening itself.

[36:29] Sonia Tayeh: And then how did you think about making that whole number move as you like put all these pieces in place and introduced them to the audience?

[36:37] Sonia Tayeh: I think that inviting in the access that I spoke of before in an unapologetic way and saying to the audience that this is a many genre, multifaceted type of movement based on a feeling that was so important, but also holding on to the traditional side of things that you see in the film, the traditional can can, but everything tilted, everything tilted. And embodied in our own expression. So, in terms of the Duke, there's a regalness to it, there's a mystique to it in terms of the Lady M's, there's a wink, but a fire and a power to it. In terms of the can can it's there's danger, there's a heightened physicality, just really inviting you in from the top, saying, buckle up, this is what our Moulin Rouge looks like and feels like.

[37:31] Alex Timbers: Yeah, and I see also there's two other vocabulary things about that just to mention that are established at the top. One is casting the audience as the audience in the club is a really important thing because there's certain scenes where they're it's sort of fourth wall, and then there's ones where they are at the club. And I think that was really important for us to set up from the beginning. The other thing, like what Sonia was saying, and John's saying too, is the tease, teasing Satine, but it's also not coming at you mega watt at the beginning. It's hearing these finger snaps the way Justin builds it. You see a curtain go up, a curtain go up, a silhouette, and you be built and it builds and builds and builds. And I think that's important that that sense of control and restriction was just as important to us as the access.

[38:22] Gordon Cox: Right after the break.

[38:39] Gordon Cox: As we talk about sort of the idea of introducing these characters, or at least the onstage version of these characters that many people will know, we should also bring on the actors who help play these, who play all these characters and embody them on stage. So let's bring on Karen Olivo, Erin Tvate, Danny Burstein, Son Gouja, and Robin Herter.

[39:02] Gordon Cox: Hi, everyone.

[39:03] All: Hey.

[39:07] Gordon Cox: Now that I've got all nine of you here on the screen, congratulations on all your Tony nominations. Well done.

[39:12] All: Thank you.

[39:13] Gordon Cox: Um Karen, I wonder if we could start by talking to you about Satine. We've talked a little bit about this already in the conversation, but tell me a little bit about how and why the Satine we see on stage is different from the Satine we saw on film.

[39:32] Karen Olivo: Uh sure, yeah. I think that the reason that she's different has a lot to do with the team's vision of how they wanted Satine to operate in the narrative. You know, I am also a huge fan of the movie, and I loved everything that Nicole Kidman did, and I loved how she functioned in that. And I know that when they asked me to be a part of this and I auditioned, one of the things that I was told was we want her to have grit. You know, the idea that she is in essence a sex worker, much older, has been around the block. Those are the things that we want her to display, and those are the tools that we want to see. And so I think that that was sort of the idea that she's not an ingenue, there's nothing about her that's an ingenue. She's still putting on the paint to sort of cover the cracks, and she's trying to get one last show out. I think that all that lends itself to why she has a very different kind of presence for this Moulin Rouge.

[40:40] Gordon Cox: And how does that character speak to you as you as a performer?

[40:45] Karen Olivo: I was glad that they wanted someone who had a little bit more grit and that I was the one that they chose. Because I am a gritty complex human being, and so I felt like I had lots of stuff to draw from. I also like that it sort of lends to the idea, which is a core belief of mine, which is community. And in our version, Satine's one goal is to keep her family at Moulin Rouge safe and together. And that plays so well into my own personal morals, and I think it's a lovely way of her going about getting the things that she needs. It's not for the self, it's for the collective.

[41:31] Gordon Cox: And how did for the other collaborators, how did the idea that Aaron or excuse me, that Karen was going to be playing Satine and particularly her voice influence kind of your choices with the character and also what songs she sang? Maybe that's a question for Justin.

[41:49] Justin Levine: Sure, I didn't want to assume. Well, I can first just say that I think this is one of the hardest roles vocally to play because you have to essentially occupy the space of a leading lady, but also be able to sing contemporary music and not just contemporary music of one style, but several styles where it feels authentic and also still feels part of this world and part of this character's journey. And so Karen is a powerhouse and incredible for rising to that challenge. And so I think that at least I could I'll speak from a musical standpoint that Karen's power and versatility is a huge part of what makes this version of Satine possible. And I will also say that I think, you know, whereas the version of Satine that exists in the film does have a bit more of an ingenue vibe of somebody who's kind of wasting away before our very eyes.

Karen is an incredibly powerful, commanding performer, and also is an incredible beautiful, bold woman of color. And it was important that this score reflects the world that is on our stage and not just how it has been done before. And so it was really important that when we kick off the diamond sequence, the first notes you hear are from a song sung by and performed by a woman of color, and that we established that this is not going to be your mama's diamonds are a girl's best friend. That's probably an okay answer, I think.

[44:09] Gordon Cox: And was that meaningful to you, Karen, to be as a woman of color sort of stepping into this role that was, I mean, very white before this?

[44:16] Karen Olivo: Yeah, I mean, obviously. You know, you can't you live in this body, so it's always those things are always very, very apparent. I think that the thing that I had to wrap my brain around was the Satine's intrinsic worth rather than the exterior, because if I was to allow the exterior to enter into my thought process as an actor, I think that the weight of it could have crushed me. So I thought more about the things that were important as far as how she got what she needed.

[44:56] Karen Olivo: Um never forgetting that um I am who I am and I would be viewed a certain way. But um I also didn't want to have the idea or I didn't want to be sort of like a token. I didn't, if I entered into this space thinking that I was the diversity hire, then I would I would act that way. And so I thought about the things that actually really matter about all humans, which is how they lead.

[45:27] Gordon Cox: Yeah. And Aaron, I wonder if you could tell us a little bit about doing a thing that you do and a lot of other performers in the show do, which is you take these songs that are, as Justin was talking about, are written as pop songs and are often sort of only about one thing, and turning them through your performance into character songs. How did you think about approaching these songs, most of which you probably knew in an entirely new way and adding uh new life to them?

[45:57] Aaron Tveit: Yeah, I think I probably knew every song that I had to sing uh as a pop song. And but what was so fascinating is once I started working on it, that sense of them as a pop song or existing only in that pop space kind of went away. And I think that goes back to what Justin and Alex and John were speaking of, is they did such a they did they put so much effort in before we even stepped in the room of making sure that every single pop song worked as a narrative device in our show. And so it was very very quickly I was able to kind of totally separate um thinking of any of them as a pop song, and it just became a part of the fabric of the arc that my character was going on. And I think that's you know, that's a testament to the work that they did a long time ago. And I just think it works so beautifully.

[46:46] Aaron Tveit: And that's something that's so difficult to do. And I think that uh they just completely nailed it. Is that something that you have to contribute to as a performer as well, in terms of particularly in the beginning, in terms of making sure that the audience buys into this idea that uh here are these songs that they know in one context, but they're going to be required to listen to them in a new way to think about them as a character moment for your character, for instance.

[47:13] Aaron Tveit: It's definitely something I've never encountered before. And I think we all can speak to the fact of at our show, I think probably our first audience in Boston, we realized there were multiple things happening, right? The audience is recognizing, and Justin touched on this, the audience is recognizing a song that they know and they have their own emotional attachment to that song. But then the people that were familiar with our story all of a sudden have like a second acknowledgement where they know how that emotional narrative is affecting our story. And then we have a third group of people who are just going on the linear story hearing it. So we have all of these different reactions within songs and different reactions within the mashups that is something like I've never experienced before in a musical.

And uh I think you know it adds to what Alex was saying about the audience being a part of our show, is that almost became a part of um the world that we were creating that I think is very, very unique for our show, and then it doesn't, it's not breaking the fourth wall, it's not pulling any focus, it's just a part of the fabric of the evening that is Moulin Rouge in the theater.

[48:18] Gordon Cox: Did that add a level of difficulty to your own performance as you were uh uh because you kind of especially early on, we didn't know what the reactions were gonna be. And then but they they become they they're pretty consistent. So we don't we we didn't really have the experience of waiting for something and it not being there, thank goodness. But uh no, it adds uh it just adds like another thing in the back of your head that you're not used to dealing with, and you kind of have to retrain your brain on a nightly basis to get used to that.

[48:48] Danny Burstein: And so, in addition to the rules that uh you and Karen played as sort of the central lovers, um, one of the most memorable characters from the film is uh Harold Ziedler, who's the impresario of uh the Moulin Rouge, who was played by Danny Burstein. Um Danny, this is your 18th Broadway show.

[49:03] Danny Burstein: It is. I'm old.

[49:08] Gordon Cox: Is there is there anything? Are there things about Moulin Rouge that make it unlike any other Broadway show that you've done?

[49:15] Danny Burstein: Well, I'll be honest with you, that's why I chose to do it. It was so unique, so different. Alex asked me to do it. Uh he handed me the script in a diner on 72nd Street in Broadway, and he said, read this, and I'll see you in a week. And we met a week later, and it was unlike anything I'd ever done before. And that's what's exciting to me as an actor to find things that I'd you know, just blow my skirt up in a different way. And this can this completely did that for me.

[49:49] Gordon Cox: Yeah. Can you uh specify a little bit for us what in particular this role allows you to do that we've never seen you do before?

[49:56] Danny Burstein: Well, he's kind of dirty and yet and sexy, and yet he's a father figure. And you know, and he is he is also a producer, an empresario. He keeps this family together. And uh I never I don't think of myself, I think of myself as uh kid from the Bronx, a Jewish kid from the Bronx, you know, who grew up speaking Spanish. And uh I don't think of myself as anyone like that, this larger than life character. Um it's it was completely different, and um I thought, yeah, I'd love to see how this plays out. And I mentioned to Alex at our first meeting that the movie was so unique to cinema. I'd never seen anything like it, and I thought it stood alone. And I said, it's gonna be it's gonna be difficult for us.

We're going to have to create something so unique to the theater in the same way that the movie is unique to cinema. And uh I wondered whether we were up to the challenge. But as soon as you walk in that theater, I mean with that pre-show that we have going on and that gorgeous set, you know that you're in for something very, very special, and it that is something that is completely unique to theater um in the most exciting, beautiful way.

[51:21] Gordon Cox: And your role is kind of the MC of the entire show. Uh tell us about sort of how you interact with the audience and how that ends up influencing your performance every night.

[51:32] Danny Burstein: Basically, years ago, I did a show with Tony Randall, and uh he had a direct address to the audience, and I I marveled at how good he was at it, and I asked him how he did it, and he said, Well, you must love your audience, and I thought that's that's a great way to look at it. They're with you every single night, and it's amazing how 1500 people can have a collective mind, you know, after like 10 seconds, and they'll tell you how they want to be treated, whether they're there for the ride or you have to tease them. Um, every night it is different, but every night uh it's incredibly exciting too.

[52:14] Gordon Cox: Yeah. Um, all these characters we've been talking about so far have been fictional, but there is one character in particular who is based on a real person and plays an important role in the La Rouge. That's the painter Toulouse Latrec, who's played by Satine Gaucha.

[52:28] Satine Gaucha: Um, so before we uh start talking about your character, we should say that you are calling from a hospital because you and your partner just had a baby. Congratulations.

[52:37] Satine Gaucha: Yeah, yeah. Yes, thank you. Thank you. Yeah, live and direct from Linux Hill a wonderful Linux Hill uh yeah yeah oh uh before you ask the next question I do want to um sorry uh to correct you there are actually two real characters uh two in the show yes Harold Ziedler uh who who uh whom Danny plays was also uh he was a real he was that true I know I do yeah yeah it's guess what he spent all his money oh sorry go ahead I can't remember his name so we'll just call him Jerry Ziedler yeah guess where that guy spent all his money he spent it on lights you know because electricity had just come up right it was a thing and he said I you know I want my club to be the most you know the brightest beacon in Mumatra and he had a really hefty bill you know he almost lost it yeah he was ahead of his time and so for you sa how did you approach this character this historical character through the lens of you know this kind of crazy mashup world of Moulin Rouge how did you think about both the history of it and how that history can exist in this world um yeah um well it uh that started with a lot of research um you know trying to consume as much uh about uh only to lose that track as I possibly could which still it it's still ongoing um and and through every stage of the process that I was involved in uh from a few years back yeah I tried to keep at the forefront of my mind while um uh approaching uh john's script you know what you know what to lose what to lose Latrec's life was like what it was about um and what the events of the fictional storyline of Moulin Rouge uh would have meant to that real person uh and I and I tried to infuse um uh sometimes subtly sometimes overtly uh John was also very keen at sort of watching the nuances and the tonality of how we were dealing with the characters throughout other rehearsal pro in the developmental processes and um you know uh infusing that texture in the way that he was guiding the character um through the different versions so um yeah that that's kind of like the initial you know approach yeah and it the role is sort of expanded in a way from what we see in the film can you tell us about kind of how in what ways uh the your character develops and what that allows you as an actor to do with Toulouse Latrec.

[52:40] Satine Gaucha: Yeah um well yeah yeah um he's he's definitely expanded um in in this show uh as uh comparison to uh Boslerman's version uh and in this one um well we we kind of get to see uh Toulouse Latrec sort of um moving between the different worlds uh you know that are operating inside of the Moulin Rouge um in a in a in a in a slightly more intricate way you know or kind of feeling the pulse or the heartbeat of the moments of that time in the 1890s Paris um through the energy of Toulouse Latrec as he relates to Setine or as he relates to Ziedler or as he relates to Aaron and Santiago. You know, and so in that way he is kind of like a you know, a you know, an energetic sort of uh baiting uh vibration um that that uh exists between the different characters in their relationships and overall in the piece, yeah, to whatever degree.

[56:30] Gordon Cox: Yeah. And uh Robin, you play a Moulin Rouge dancer uh named Nini. You're one of the Lady M's that was mentioned uh earlier in this discussion. Um you tell us about sort of the role that you and the Lady M's play in the show.

[56:47] Robin Hurder: Um funny enough, there are three true characters in this show. Nini actually was um a legit. Yeah, I'm gonna have to cut that part. I'm very wrong. Her name was and um she was basically kind of like the dance captain. Um, if you put it in today's terms, she was a dance captain of the girls, she would come and recruit them and she'd bring them up into her apartment or someone's apartment, and she would literally train the girls and break their backs and try to get them to do these weird tricks. Um, and she had this really amazing move where she would just put her leg up in the air and just like nerve tap her foot in the air, and that gave her her name.

[57:31] Robin Hurder: Um just a little history on that. Um I start, I get to be one of the four beasts that opens up this gorgeous underworld and just invites people in to this two and a half hours of um pure theatrical ecstasy. I mean, it's it's just so much. It's it's really a lot after not doing it for seven months to hear every single one of you talk about our show. It's not like we forgot, but it's like, oh my gosh, yes, we actually are a part of this sensation that just exploded on Broadway. And um, so it's been such a such a pleasure to relive it. But um yeah, it's um it's such a it's such a gift, it's a blessing to get to open up uh a show. I've never felt uh more like a rock star. Um they give us the most beautiful entrance.

You see hearts fly up, you see curtains go away, you and then you get these snaps and this build up, and you get to flip around and you just get to stomp and charge like Alex says, like wolves. And we get to um, you know, sort of gently, but not gently, um, welcome the audience into our world.

[58:48] Robin Hurder: And what's fun with us is that we have full uh access to break the fourth wall, which is one of my favorite parts um when we do get that rare chance to do while I'm performing. So it's uh it's pretty exciting to get to, you know. Sometimes if you feel that like they're up to it, you get to touch an audience member, but we get to really have that connection and you can feel that energy on the other side, just with this imaginary like wall that they think that they they can't touch us, but the energy is like flowing through it. And it's it's really remarkable.

[59:23] Baz Luhrmann: Yeah.

[59:24] Baz Luhrmann: And then you in particular get a big important performance sequence at the beginning of act two. What, tell us a little bit about that and kind of what that, that's an entirely new, that's we don't see that in the film. What is that sequence and what's it like to do?

[59:40] Baz Luhrmann: Well, it's a, it's very fun. Basically we're, you know, in Moulin Rouge, we're in the show within the show. Christian's writing this, you know, this show, and that's how the, you know, act two starts, and we're, it's basically like we're in rehearsal in the Moulin Rouge, and it starts, the curtain comes up.

[1:00:03] Baz Luhrmann: Um, and we have our Santiago played by Ricky Rojas. And uh he starts singing this very popular song by Lady Gaga called "Bad Romance." And um he starts singing, and it's the beginning of rehearsal, there's a ghost light on the set, and I just kind of like creep in because there's this relationship that has kind of you've kind of seen it in the first act, but in the second act you realize, oh, there's something going on between these two. Um, you clearly see that really early on in the beginning of the number. Um, but we have this little cat and mouse um kind of like fire and ice moment on stage. Um, and it's like we don't know if we're going to just like envelop in an embrace or we're just gonna rip each other's heads off.

Um, and that's what really exciting. And uh then everybody's slowly coming into rehearsal and warming up, and then we just start this massive melt your face dance number, and then incorporating this love triangle between, you know, uh Christian and Satine and Ziedler, which is you know, echoing what's actually happening in our show between the Duke and Satine and Christian. And it's like six minutes or seven minutes, and uh it's amazing, and I miss it.

[1:01:26] Karen Olivo: Yeah, oh it's also um a pretty physically demanding number as is a lot of the show for you and for everyone uh on this call right now all the performers on this call right now what tell us about kind of sustaining doing that uh eight times a week um you uh wow well there's a lot everybody has their own their own thing um I think we can all say we need to rest we need to hydrate and we need to um keep our bodies strong whether it's um we have an amazing uh physical therapist uh that um has is basically um our lord and savior um all of us actually danny karen aaron saw we're like her regulars funny enough um every single person in the show it is so like sonia said it's um it's excessive but in the right way it's it it needs that danger and that uh that intensity and all of us are very intense people and there's not one moment that we're not giving it 160 and after a while that will just it it depletes you so yeah drink your water get your eight hours I think more may I yeah please say um what's beautiful about the this company is that they embody the artist as who they are they embody the artist and inside themselves meaning they it is a lifestyle so that the preparation for the show doesn't start at six, it's a lifestyle, and it takes that certain type of human being to want to have that type of lifestyle to be in the show.

[1:03:11] Danny Burstein: It's I come from the heroes of mine, the Twilight Arps, the Martha Grams, the moving outs of the world, where you are literally you embody that type of artist. It's in your cells, it's cellular, it's on a daily basis, it's not just from six to ten. And that's why they are able to sustain, and that's why they are the epitome of excellence in our eyes, because that's how they thrive. That's how they breathe. They breathe fire. I really believe that. I really do. That's all.

[1:03:45] Gordon Cox: This is a question for all the performers, actually. Do you remember what it was like for you to walk into the theater and see the set there for the first time?

[1:03:53] Karen Olivo: Yes. It's on what was it like? Tell us. It's on film. They filmed us watching seeing the set for the first time in Boston. And I think we all because we all had worked on it. You know, you work on it in a rehearsal space, you work on it in a lab that's kind of like a theater, and you don't, you know, you're working on this material. And you for me, anyway. I don't know if you've guys felt this way. That would that hadn't entered my mind yet. And so I think when we all walked into the theater, it just took a whole different leap in that direction of realizing the scale of what this was. Also, like that's your office. Like that's the office that I get to do my work in. And it is the most incredible dream.

And someone has actually created it. I felt so grateful. And also immediately I felt like, oh, Karen, you need to step up your game because this is the backdrop. You have to be so fantastic that they're not just looking at the incredible work that Derek McLean has done behind. But yeah, grateful.

[1:04:51] Robin Hurder: That's what's also so amazing about Alex and his imagination is that he the idea of creating the world inside the theater in what right when you walk in. So it's not you're not just seeing the world in front of you. You're seeing it in your backspace and you're feeling it in your backspace when you're sitting down and in your peripheral. That's some that's genius to it you walk in and you say okay here is my escape for two and a half hours. This is where I live and this is where I'm going to embody this idea for two and a half hours it's really quite remarkable. And it you see the mood change it's when when you have that embodiment when you walk into a theater that it's just red velvet beautiful chandeliers and the lighting is gorgeous and all of these you know the pre-show is going on it's it's it really sets a standard that's so mysterious and beautiful.

[1:05:44] Karen Olivo: And one uh design element that we haven't talked about yet are Catherine Zuber's costumes which are also a big contributor to sort of character can uh one of the performers maybe speak to how your particular costume or costumes uh influenced your performances I guess I probably should I probably should say something um uh I am you know I honestly without the costume I think being Satine would be close to impossible because I truly need the vessel that she created um I have like all of the heart and all of the stuff but it's that silhouette it's that structured that highly structured hypersexualized silhouette that makes Satine the dream of every single person that sees her that I needed um to sort of take me the rest of the way.

And it because uh it is so it was every piece had so much intricacy. It to me it felt like a little bit of more armor and more tools for her to use, knowing that the silhouette looked the way it did when I turned to the side, that was something as an actor I could use if I'm trying to be a little bit more seductive. Show how the beating goes down all the way and like you know, caresses the bump, like use that. So the way that they put these pieces together, if you could hold one in your hands, you would be like, put this in a museum. Um but it really did. It's the marriage of actor and uh the tool that they need to do the actual work.

[1:07:24] Robin Hurder: Yeah.

[1:07:25] Robin Hurder: You looked like you had something to add.

[1:07:27] Robin Hurder: No, I'm I'm I would be echoing uh Karen. It is literally like your armor when I put because I mean, well, she's a strong corset. But it literally um I didn't realize, you know, because when we're in rehearsals, you know, I I'm usually wearing like a little sports bra and dance pants, right? And my boots. And I I felt like I was trying my best to embody the character, but once I put on, especially the no, all of them, but when you put on the opening corset, and you notice, you know, I'm often cast in shows that I'm not wearing a lot of clothing, but this one was different because it's, you know, she's she's in a tiny little corset and not a lot on the legs. Um, but I've never felt more confident and stronger um walking, charging down a stage in my life and any type of dance movement I've ever done.

Her designs and she listens, she listened to me so much because what I have to do is pretty demanding physically, um, bending and stuff. Um, it just it all came together. Like Karen said, it's like a marriage. Um, but yeah, it's it's incredible. We have the best of the best on the show.

[1:08:39] Baz Luhrmann: Yeah, and Moulin Rouge, like every Broadway show, uh, has been shut down since uh March 12th due to the COVID-19 pandemic. Um, which was something that hit your cast particularly hard. Uh Aaron and Danny, you two have uh in particular personal experience with COVID-19. How are you guys doing now?

[1:09:00] Aaron Tveit: Uh yeah, I'm I'm I'm I'm all better. Um, I think um I think looking back, I was probably sicker than I thought I was because I think we were all so at the beginning of this whole thing, and I also think ignorance is bliss. If I knew what I knew about it now, I think I probably would have been a lot more scared at the time. But I was very, very lucky. I had a mild case. Um, you know, Danny can speak about uh about the difficulties he had. But you know, the thing is it's it's a real thing and it's still around, and um, you know, people just really need to take this seriously still.

[1:09:33] Danny Burstein: Right. I had I was in the hospital for six days with it, and uh it was uh not something anybody wants to go through. I'm doing much better, um, still occasionally, like once a month for a couple of days. I'll have you know swelling in my hands and and I'm extremely tired uh at certain hours, but then it goes away for a while, and and so I'm hoping uh that it just goes away eventually completely. Um, that's my hope. But but I would also like to echo what Aaron said. Uh, people do need to take it seriously, people do need to wear their masks, people do need to socially distance, and if they don't need to gather in large groups at all, don't because you don't want to experience uh what I did, unfortunately, in the early March, uh, where in the hospital, uh, people were getting sick and literally dying all around me. Uh, if you spent an hour in that kind of an atmosphere, you would go, all right, I don't need to do that. Um, nobody needs to do that.

[1:10:41] Gordon Cox: Yeah, yeah. Um, and let's talk a little bit about how some of you have been spending your time during the shutdown. Karen, I know you were very active in the Black Lives Matter movement, are very active in the Black Lives Matter movement and sort of the fight for equality in the theater. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

[1:10:57] Karen Olivo: Uh yeah. Um uh my friend and I, Ian Espinoza, we started an organization called AFAC, which is Artists for Economic Transparency, and it's sort of on the heels of, you know, when our doors shut and all of these shows closed, actors were sort of scattered. We had we we really didn't have much of a safety net. And so I started looking at um structures in the same way, you know, racial inequity is something that we should all be talking about, we should all be thinking about. But specifically for me, I felt like I needed to look at it in my industry, and so we decided to just be an organization that educates people on structures. So if you know the structure, you can see the inequity, and therefore you can have the conversation to change it and restructure it.

[1:11:42] Gordon Cox: Yeah. And how do you all think about staying sort of active and creative during this time?

[1:11:53] Robin Hurder: Robin, yes, you've got something to say.

[1:11:56] Robin Hurder: Well, I, you know, I I have a I have a six year old son, so he keeps me pretty um pretty active downstairs if I need to drain his energy energy. So I I happen to have a dance studio downstairs. So I'm constantly down there either with him, um, like I said, trying to drain his energy or um teaching uh dance classes every now and then, um, revisiting some Moulin Rouge choreography, creating my own stuff. Also, my husband's a singer songwriter, and he's been working on his album, and I'm singing some backups on it. So that's also been uh kind of a gift to just create, like you know, create an album, something that he's wanted to do for 20 years. So that's been um kind of fun. But yeah, that's about it. Oh, and I'm also you know, being creative and learning kindergarten or first grade common core is brand new to me. I'm like, why do with two plus two is four? Like if it's why, why is it two plus two is four? Oh, yeah. I'm also a first grade teacher.

[1:12:57] Gordon Cox: Right.

[1:12:58] Gordon Cox: Yeah. Does anyone else have anything to add to that before we move on?

[1:13:03] Unknown speaker: Um not really. Just I've been lucky enough to do a couple of films uh during this time, believe it or not, and have some more work coming up while being a full-time caregiver. Um just keep moving forward, that's it.

[1:13:20] Gordon Cox: Right.

[1:13:21] Gordon Cox: Yeah, well, we are looking forward to the day when we can see all of you on stage again in Moulin Rouge. Um, but before we go, uh let's finish up with um this uh never before seen video of "Come What May." Alex, do you want to tell us a little bit about what this is?

[1:13:38] Alex Timbers: Sure. This is Karen and Aaron, two incredible performers doing this incredible number uh arranged by uh Justin Levine, our incredible supervisor.

[1:13:49] Gordon Cox: Yeah, well, thank you. Um, thank you, Alex, for being here, and thanks to all of you for being here for this variety streaming room discussion about Moulin Rouge, the music hall. Um, and as I said, we can't wait to see it on stage again when you're all back.

[1:14:09] Gordon Cox: That was the cast and creators of Moulin Rouge, the Broadway musical now nominated for 14 Tony Awards. A video version of this conversation is available in the Variety Streaming Room at Variety.com. If you like what you're hearing on this and other episodes of Stagecraft, I'd so appreciate it if you took the time to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. You can subscribe and find past episodes there, and on all the other pod places, including Spotify and on the Broadway Podcast Network, which is a great place to find more theater for your ears. I'll be back in two weeks with another new episode. Thanks for listening and see you soon.