This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Tarell Alvin McCraney: My name is Tarell Alvin McCraney. I'm artistic director at Geffen Playhouse, and I am playwright and co-director of The Brothers Size at The Shed.

[0:09] Tarell Alvin McCraney: This show, it's not its first rodeo, it's had a few runs. What makes this particular production special and different than anything else? This collaboration with folks who have known the play for a long time for 20 years. And for those who are coming to it for the first time, what's happening is that we're starting to see and feel and pull out things that we haven't before. You know, we have a musician who has just a deep background in Yoruba music, a composer who is coming up with some of the most interesting ways to integrate that music into the script, a choreographer who is skilled in West African contemporary and traditional dance, and then we have these three actors, André, Alani, and Malcolm, who are bringing with them very different approaches to the work, but trying to make sure that we're all telling the same collaborative, powerful story about brotherhood and the bonds of brotherhood and how it can save us from some of the most perilous times.

[1:23] Samantha Tuozzolo: Cool. Thank you for sharing that. So you obviously are very skilled as a writer, director, artist. You've written film, right? You've had your hands in a few different verticals in the artist's world. What makes theater so special for you?

[1:41] Tarell Alvin McCraney: Walking into a room with folks and everyone knowing that the only reason we're here is to try and tell the same story in the most powerful way and live as possible is really thrilling. And you don't, or at least I forgot how nourishing that can feel. Yeah. Um, how really joyous it can be just to get in a room and talk about or dream together. Um, because that's what you do to make the theater. That's also what you do to witness theater. Right. We get in a room in the dark and we all imagine this thing together. We dream together. Um, and you dream together. Well, it's the core of democracy, right? It's the reason why we all, you know, really go back to the theater. It's a practice in getting in the room and dreaming together.

Um, and our dreams are slightly different, of course. Um, the lead on stage will tell us to imagine that it's cold or hot or, and we will imagine it slightly different, but together we're doing it. We're agreeing to do it together. And that's thrilling. That's thrilling at a time that's so, you know, post-COVID and all of the things that are happening in the world, but it just feels really good to get in a room and dream with some folks.

[2:57] Samantha Tuozzolo: Yeah, dream and escape totally. So you obviously wrote this play. Is there a particular character in the show that you've learned something from? Maybe this go around in particular?

[3:10] Tarell Alvin McCraney: You know, I learn something from each character every time I watch it, but I will say that the ability to make space for people is something that I didn't know was people's superpower. Like, and the way Elegba, the character Elegba, who's often thought of as sort of a trickster, um, the way he can make space for people is noble and thrilling and terrifying, right? Because you find these people in your lives who are just like, look, I'm able to make and hold space for you in a way that you didn't even know you needed. They scare us because they make us realize that we do need things in the world. Um, we have to make choices about what we need and when we need it. So anyway, that's one of the small things I learned. But every day, these characters, these actors, these musicians, the tech directors, they teach me something new.

[4:08] Samantha Tuozzolo: Well, I certainly can't wait to see this production. Um, so my particular podcast on the network is called Survival Jobs. Before you were working as an artist or writer, do you have a survival job that you can share with us?

[4:21] Tarell Alvin McCraney: Yeah, I mean, the good blessing I've always said to people is that I have been an educator my entire life. Um, even when I was a kid and an actor as a 16-year-old, I was also a peer educator. Um, so my entire life I've been an educator and an artist. And so oftentimes when I write down on my taxes what I do, I'm like educator, artist, artist, educator. I don't know, I've ever seen a leg spot. Yeah, this thing. So, um, but blessedly they feed each other. Um, and they don't feel like jobs that I'm doing instead of, but they are for survival. Right. Because if I didn't, if I wasn't able to do theater, if I wasn't able to teach, um, I yeah, I was telling somebody the other day, I was like, I miss my students. You know, I was, I was the chair at Yale for about four, five years, six years.

[5:16] Samantha Tuozzolo: That's incredible.

[5:17] Tarell Alvin McCraney: Um, and I miss my students. I just miss them all the time. So, uh, hopefully I'll get back to doing some more teaching soon.

[5:23] Samantha Tuozzolo: Isn't that really beautiful when what you do to survive and support your art turns into something that you love?

[5:28] Tarell Alvin McCraney: Yeah. Isn't that what it's about? I mean, you have had a long press day and you have a few more people to chat with, so I'm gonna let you go. But before I do, in one word, can you let our listeners know why they need to come run and see this production?

[5:42] Tarell Alvin McCraney: Hope.

[5:43] Tarell Alvin McCraney: That's it.

[5:45] Tarell Alvin McCraney: Hope. Thank you so much. It was so amazing to meet you.

[5:47] Tarell Alvin McCraney: I think we're hi, happy press day. How you doing?

[5:50] Oneir Zaki: How you doing?

[5:51] Samantha Tuozzolo: Good, how are you?

[5:52] Oneir Zaki: So, as I mentioned, we are a podcast network. A lot of folks are just listening. So, can you please introduce yourself and let us know what your role here is?

[5:59] Oneir Zaki: Sure. I'm Oneir Zaki. I'm the musician in The Brothers Size.

[6:03] Samantha Tuozzolo: Congratulations. Can you tell us when you first found music and what drew you to want to be a musician?

[6:11] Oneir Zaki: Music and the artist's lifestyle was passed down to me. My mother was dancing and drumming while I was in the womb.

[6:23] Samantha Tuozzolo: So you were getting the bug when you were like not even out of the onto the earth yet.

[6:27] Oneir Zaki: Yeah, she blessed me, and my grandmother is a singer, and so she, it's just been passed down. So it's been a blessing. My mom, my mom, she fueled the artists in us.

[6:37] Samantha Tuozzolo: That's really, really beautiful. And what drew you to want to be a part of this production and to be the musician in this particular piece?

[6:45] Oneir Zaki: All of the elements, literally, I came into knowledge of the play about two months ago. And so all of the elements of this play, the story and the music is literally a smorgasbord of my life. Literally. So the representation of the music and how I grew up learning traditional West African music, but to the experiences of us already listening to the, you know, Sam Cooke, Otis, but like that experience of our history here in America, just the family sibling aspect, you know, being one of three on one side and one of seven on the other side, like every aspect of the play I see myself in, so it's been beautiful to be able to just fall in and have those elements already lined up.

[7:03] Samantha Tuozzolo: That's really, really cool. So this is an all-star cast. Every single person that's involved in this is so phenomenal. Is there one thing so far that you've learned from anybody in the cast that you can share with us or the cast or the company, anybody at all, and part of this creative process?

[7:50] Oneir Zaki: Every single one of them, Alani, Malcolm, André, Tarell, even people who are not on the stage, like everybody's mastery, like the dedication and devotion to honor the part what they do is phenomenal. So I will say overall the attention to detail and the devotion that allows them to have the mastery that they do, that's been one of the biggest things and honors to be face to face with rubbing shoulders with every day.

[8:22] Samantha Tuozzolo: That's so beautiful. Do you have a favorite instrument that you play and can you tell us why?

[8:24] Oneir Zaki: My favorite instrument is probably just drums. I put together a kit that is one of many versions and variations that have been out, but a songban set. So it's another way to present several cultures brought together. So the songban set is like traditional West African drums, but at the same time we have our, you know, westernized drum set.

[8:55] Samantha Tuozzolo: Yeah.

[8:56] Oneir Zaki: So that's probably my favorite drum right now.

[8:58] Samantha Tuozzolo: That's yeah, yeah, songban set. Really cool. So my podcast on the network is called Survival Jobs. Before you were working as a musician, or even during, do you have a survival job that you do on the side to keep you afloat, to keep you going, to keep your artistry funded?

[9:13] Oneir Zaki: Yep. So I've always been teaching.

[9:17] Samantha Tuozzolo: Great.

[9:17] Oneir Zaki: So different schools in Atlanta. I've always taught. Um, as well as with my wife. We also do, she has a social media company. So she does social media management, so I help her with videography.

[9:35] Samantha Tuozzolo: That's great, and so we've come together and done that.

[9:38] Oneir Zaki: So yeah, simple solutions. Listen, social media is taking over the world, so that's a great survival job to have. And before I let you go, I know you have a ton of people to chat with today. In one word, can you let us know why people need to run and see The Brothers Size?

[9:55] Oneir Zaki: Purpose.

[9:55] Oneir Zaki: Purpose, I'd say purpose because although we all have individual purpose, we're still reflections of one another. So to be able to see someone else's purpose and why they're doing it still allows us to have a feeling that can be inspiring. You know, so probably we'll say inspiration too, inspiring, but we got two words here, people.

[10:16] Oneir Zaki: Yeah, yeah. So I would say those two.

[10:19] Samantha Tuozzolo: Well, thank you so much for chatting. Thank you. Congratulations. I cannot wait to come see this production. Thanks so much.

[10:25] Samantha Tuozzolo: Hi, happy press day!

[10:26] Malcolm Mays: How's it going so far?

[10:28] Samantha Tuozzolo: Uh, it's going.

[10:29] Malcolm Mays: We're here.

[10:30] Samantha Tuozzolo: We are alive.

[10:30] Malcolm Mays: We're thriving.

[10:31] Samantha Tuozzolo: It's early, but we're here.

[10:33] Samantha Tuozzolo: Um, so as I mentioned, we are a podcast. A lot of folks are just listening, so can you please introduce yourself and let us know what your role here is?

[10:40] Malcolm Mays: All right, what's up, y'all? My name is Malcolm Mays, and I'm playing Elegba in The Brothers Size, playing at The Shed very soon, y'all. Written by Tarell Alvin McCraney.

[10:50] Malcolm Mays: Exactly.

[10:50] Malcolm Mays: Alvin.

[10:51] Malcolm Mays: Who the hell, Alvin?

[10:52] Malcolm Mays: Oh, Alvin.

[10:53] Malcolm Mays: I'm just kidding.

[10:54] Malcolm Mays: Okay.

[10:55] Samantha Tuozzolo: Can you tell us what initially drew you to this piece and what made you want to be a part of this production?

[10:59] Malcolm Mays: Oh, Alvin.

[11:00] Malcolm Mays: Tarell Alvin McCraney.

[11:02] Malcolm Mays: That's who no, uh, no, absolutely.

[11:04] Malcolm Mays: The work itself. The work itself spoke for itself, and that's how I was introduced to Tarell Alvin McCraney, was through this exact play.

[11:10] Malcolm Mays: And ever since I have been annoying him to let me participate in anything that he does.

[11:17] Malcolm Mays: And I guess it worked.

[11:18] Malcolm Mays: Oh, at some point it did.

[11:20] Malcolm Mays: So there's a lesson, listeners.

[11:21] Malcolm Mays: If you want something, just annoy them.

[11:23] Malcolm Mays: That's how it works, unfortunately.

[11:24] Malcolm Mays: Persistence seems to get people placed.

[11:26] Malcolm Mays: It's actually a really good lesson.

[11:27] Malcolm Mays: If the manifestation being persistent, and that's what gets you places.

[11:32] Samantha Tuozzolo: So far in your rehearsal process and studying the script and getting to know your character, what have you learned from your character so far?

[11:40] Malcolm Mays: Ooh, that's a good one.

[11:41] Malcolm Mays: What have I learned from Elegba?

[11:46] Malcolm Mays: I've learned that just I've learned that love isn't enough.

[11:50] Malcolm Mays: Just loving something it albeit beautiful and romantic and pseudo-noble to some degree, um, doesn't change the function or the reality of what a person may desire or need or what a relationship requires.

[12:01] Malcolm Mays: But there is something like kind of like oddly tragically romantic about somebody who purely loves somebody, but may not be what's best for that person, or might be a stepping stone for that person to get on to the next level.

[12:15] Malcolm Mays: Uh which is uh oddly sad.

[12:18] Malcolm Mays: I'm so sorry.

[12:19] Malcolm Mays: But I didn't think about it until right now.

[12:21] Malcolm Mays: Thank you.

[12:21] Malcolm Mays: Good question.

[12:24] Malcolm Mays: Um, you know, it's sad, but it's true, and like it it's part of life, and so that was really beautiful.

[12:28] Samantha Tuozzolo: Thank you for sharing.

[12:29] Samantha Tuozzolo: So The Shed is a newish performance space it's it's really cool we're off the beat a little bit from the theater district what what is so thrilling for you about performing in this particular space?

[12:29] Malcolm Mays: Well I saw King Lear here and that was pretty amazing shout out to Kenneth Branagh and all the RADA alum the Royal Academy of Arts alum it's just it's such a radical space and so and the and it seems like everything done here seems to have a bit of revolution in it like a bit of radicalization in it and you know I like that disrupt shit kick shit over kick it hard okay not this equipment though it seems very expensive.

[13:06] Malcolm Mays: This is like my one woman show and my crew can't come.

[13:09] Malcolm Mays: Hey listen we gotta do what you gotta do.

[13:11] Malcolm Mays: You might need to do a show with The Shed hey maybe so my podcast on the network is called Survival Jobs.

[13:17] Samantha Tuozzolo: Survival Jobs yes here we are you are Survival Jobs a podcast like subscribe and follow I can't follow do you have a survival job before you were working as an actor?

[13:17] Malcolm Mays: Women's shoes oh I sold women's shoes I've lifted cinder blocks and did labor ready.

[13:38] Malcolm Mays: Okay that's a good way to double your workout for the day.

[13:42] Malcolm Mays: Yeah it was uh yeah I couldn't get a job nowhere else at the time um I just came home so then yeah so I did labor ready for a little bit and then I did uh I sold women's shoes like Clooney uh what was this Chinese laundry is the name of the listen well now you know that'll tie into maybe a character one day who has knowledge about women's shoes.

[14:01] Malcolm Mays: Yeah, you know what's crazy?

[14:02] Malcolm Mays: I have been trying to figure out a series to do.

[14:05] Malcolm Mays: And it and a guy that works at this saleswoman's shoes might be the guy.

[14:09] Malcolm Mays: He might be the guy, and I could be the woman he sells it to.

[14:11] Samantha Tuozzolo: This is true.

[14:12] Samantha Tuozzolo: Hello?

[14:13] Samantha Tuozzolo: Anyone want to produce this?

[14:14] Malcolm Mays: We're ready.

[14:15] Malcolm Mays: And subscribe, and we'll call it Survival Jobs.

[14:18] Samantha Tuozzolo: That's it.

[14:19] Malcolm Mays: This is Zing.

[14:20] Malcolm Mays: You might have a hit.

[14:21] Samantha Tuozzolo: I know you have a ton of other people to talk to, so I'm gonna let you go.

[14:23] Samantha Tuozzolo: But before I do, in one word, let our listeners know why they need to run to see this production at The Shed.

[14:23] Malcolm Mays: One word.

[14:35] Malcolm Mays: Tough, right?

[14:36] Malcolm Mays: Yeah, one word, I'll say.

[14:38] Malcolm Mays: Magic.

[14:39] Samantha Tuozzolo: Magic.

[14:40] Samantha Tuozzolo: Thank you so much.

[14:41] Samantha Tuozzolo: It was so great to meet you.

[14:42] Andre Holland: Yes, hey, hey everybody. My name is Andre Holland, and I'm playing Ogun Size.

[14:46] Alani iLongwe: My name is Alani iLongwe, and I'm playing Oshoosi Size.

[14:49] Samantha Tuozzolo: Amazing.

[14:50] Samantha Tuozzolo: Now, Andre, this is not your first first round in this play.

[14:54] Samantha Tuozzolo: So what draws you to this piece that made you want to come back?

[14:59] Andre Holland: Well, Terrell, you know, Tarell Alvin McCraney, who is a dear dear friend of mine.

[15:03] Andre Holland: We've collaborated on a bunch of different plays on a couple of movies, uh, and his work challenges me in in you know in ways that nothing else has.

[15:11] Andre Holland: So I think I mean I love this play.

[15:13] Andre Holland: I've always wanted to play this character, even though the first time around I played the other character.

[15:21] Andre Holland: Um, and I'm excited also to use it as like an opportunity to see where I am as an actor.

[15:26] Andre Holland: You know, it's one of those parts that like challenges you, it calls on everything.

[15:30] Andre Holland: And so it's it's like a nice way to check in and see like, oh yeah, where am I?

[15:34] Samantha Tuozzolo: Right, right.

[15:35] Samantha Tuozzolo: And what drew you to this piece to say, yes, I want to be in this production?

[15:39] Alani iLongwe: Um, funny enough, it was it was Terrell and it was Malcolm.

[15:44] Alani iLongwe: Uh, because I believe Malcolm ended up getting like offered the role first, and then they were like, If you're gonna be in the play, who do you want to play be in it with?

[15:52] Alani iLongwe: And he was like, My friend Alani.

[15:54] Alani iLongwe: And I was just like, You're crazy.

[15:56] Alani iLongwe: I don't know why you're talking to me.

[15:57] Alani iLongwe: But um, so that was the first thing but then after that like once they told me it was The Brothers Size I was just like done you know yeah beautiful is there something that you can share with us that you've each learned from your characters as you're getting to know them?

[15:57] Andre Holland: Well I think um I don't know that I've learned this but maybe been reminded of um the depths of love of brotherly love especially um, you know, I'm I'm I have two siblings who I love deeply and being in this play I think reminds me of just how deep that love is and can be.

[15:57] Alani iLongwe: Cool yeah I think the role is um reminded me of the importance of taking care of your inner child and how when traumatic things happen you know like incarceration or anything else many times it's that inner child that gets damaged the most.

[15:57] Samantha Tuozzolo: Amazing thank you for sharing that so as you saw my show on the podcast network is called Survival Jobs before you were working actors and artists or maybe even during do you have a survival job you can share with us that has kept you afloat?

[15:57] Alani iLongwe: Well, you know touch wood I have been fortunate since I came out of grad school to just work at I know I'm touch all the wood in here uh to just work as an actor I mean I've done a variety of different things commercials and you know all the things readings um before that though um I did a stint at a restaurant this is before I came out of grad school I did like some restaurant work I uh I've done a lot of things.

[17:32] Alani iLongwe: I had this one crazy job where I worked at a landfill, believe it or not.

[17:36] Samantha Tuozzolo: Okay.

[17:36] Alani iLongwe: Yeah.

[17:37] Alani iLongwe: Full out hazmat suit, the whole nine.

[17:39] Samantha Tuozzolo: Yeah, yeah.

[17:40] Alani iLongwe: Yeah.

[17:42] Alani iLongwe: That's right exactly exactly.

[17:44] Alani iLongwe: Um in a similar way, I've also been um very blessed because you know, my on my show.

[17:54] Alani iLongwe: Like my survival jobs were like voiceover, you know what I mean?

[17:58] Alani iLongwe: Um, but before, like when I had just got out of school, like I went in like well, well, I guess that doesn't count either.

[18:05] Alani iLongwe: Voiceover, you know.

[18:06] Alani iLongwe: But during, I will say this, it wasn't technically a survival job.

[18:10] Alani iLongwe: I think it was a strategic job.

[18:12] Alani iLongwe: Because like, you know, I was like super duper duper duper skinny and I was like, I need to like put on some muscle and not look like this, but I I don't want to buy gym memberships.

[18:24] Samantha Tuozzolo: So you worked at the gym.

[18:25] Alani iLongwe: So I was a personal trainer for like ten years, you know what I mean.

[18:28] Alani iLongwe: And it was just like I was like, this is great.

[18:30] Alani iLongwe: I get paid to work out.

[18:31] Alani iLongwe: I get paid the teaching me things, you know.

[18:33] Alani iLongwe: I mean, it was all strategic, you know.

[18:35] Alani iLongwe: So yeah.

[18:36] Alani iLongwe: That's what you gotta do it, you know what I mean.

[18:38] Samantha Tuozzolo: So you're performing this play at The Shed.

[18:40] Samantha Tuozzolo: We're a little bit away from the theater district.

[18:42] Samantha Tuozzolo: What do you think makes it so unique to perform this particular piece in this space?

[18:47] Alani iLongwe: Well, I gotta be honest, you know, I just arrived in the space today, it's the first time.

[18:50] Alani iLongwe: I haven't even seen the theater yet.

[18:54] Alani iLongwe: No, I'm excited to see it.

[18:56] Alani iLongwe: But um so many of my friends have performed and they've all really loved it.

[19:00] Alani iLongwe: Um and I think, you know, the fact that it's in New York that you know people know about it, and I I think you know, it's gonna help us to reach the right kind of audiences.

[19:07] Alani iLongwe: Um and I think most importantly The Shed, it feels as if they're really um committed to making the play accessible to folks.

[19:16] Alani iLongwe: So we're trying to do like a tick, you know, a low ticket pricing initiative to get folks in and you know, all kinds that makes me excited that we can actually get the play to the people who want to see it.

[19:25] Samantha Tuozzolo: Exactly.

[19:25] Alani iLongwe: Amazing.

[19:26] Alani iLongwe: Yeah.

[19:26] Alani iLongwe: And like for The Shed in general, like I just love the fact that so many different you know artistic pieces are here.

[19:33] Alani iLongwe: You know, we got like an immersive piece downstairs.

[19:35] Alani iLongwe: There's an installation piece.

[19:37] Alani iLongwe: But earlier like I went into the space and just like walking into it like it's much bigger than the space that we had it together in.

[19:45] Alani iLongwe: But there's something about it that just feels like like spiritually rich.

[19:50] Alani iLongwe: Like the bombs are like wider, right?

[19:52] Alani iLongwe: Like the audience space goes up wider.

[19:55] Alani iLongwe: And then when you go into the center of the space and you look there's just something there where you're just like oh wow like I got emotional sitting there.

[20:03] Alani iLongwe: You know I mean I was just like okay you know like it feels as if somehow we're gonna be able to connect to the audience more here even though it's a bigger space.

[20:12] Samantha Tuozzolo: Yeah it's a great space.

[20:14] Samantha Tuozzolo: I know you have one more person to talk to I have two more questions.

[20:17] Samantha Tuozzolo: I know you both have had your hands in film, TV, theater what about theater makes you excited makes it feel different than doing another vertical of your art?

[20:28] Andre Holland: I mean it's always just that audience interaction you know the direct contact and the immediate feedback from an audience and also the high wire act that it is you know like it's a risky thing to get out on stage in front of a bunch of people.

[20:40] Andre Holland: You know and and and there's something addictive about it and exciting about it and unique.

[20:46] Alani iLongwe: Yeah.

[20:47] Alani iLongwe: Yeah same as like um being able to go out there every day and just be like this might be terrible you know but like there's something really exciting about that you know and also the fact that like uh understanding that with every new audience, the show is going to be slightly different.

[21:03] Alani iLongwe: You know, it's like I'm gonna bring a new energy, y'all are gonna bring a new energy, right?

[21:08] Alani iLongwe: Like we're gonna share, and it's gonna be great.

[21:09] Andre Holland: Yeah so beautiful.

[21:11] Samantha Tuozzolo: Okay, and lastly, in one word, why don't you guys do it together on the count of three to see where we land?

[21:16] Samantha Tuozzolo: In one word, can you tell our listeners why they have to come run and see this play?

[21:21] Samantha Tuozzolo: Ready?

[21:22] All: One, two, three.

[21:24] All: Love.