This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Samantha Tuozzolo: Wait, so you really want to make a podcast?

[0:02] Jason A. Coombs: Yeah, what if we just sang our music?

[0:04] Samantha Tuozzolo: Maybe we should get some real music, Samantha.

[0:06] Jason A. Coombs: The podcast came.

[0:07] Samantha Tuozzolo: Well, you're still recording.

[0:10] Jason A. Coombs: Survival Jobs is a podcast spotlighting artists, their side hustles, and their passions.

[0:15] Samantha Tuozzolo: Hosted by Samantha Tuozzolo and Jason A. Coombs.

[0:18] Jason A. Coombs: Boom.

[0:20] Samantha Tuozzolo: Sweet.

[0:21] Jason A. Coombs: Okay.

[0:22] Samantha Tuozzolo: Love it.

[0:22] Jason A. Coombs: Okay, Samantha Tuozzolo.

[0:25] Samantha Tuozzolo: Episode three.

[0:27] Jason A. Coombs: Let's do a mic check.

[0:28] Samantha Tuozzolo: So give us a little survival job story.

[0:31] Jason A. Coombs: I worked as a PA on a bunch of different shows. But my first time was working on the show White Collar, which was starring Matt Bomer. I was a new PA and I was so excited. We were on location in the studio, and there were two studios there, and you're shooting in one studio and the other one's empty. I was an office PA and I was looking for crafty. I was looking for the on-set crafty. It was like so much better. So I go look into the studio and it was like an empty one. I was like, oh, I guess you're not shooting in here. I'm just like, oh wow, this is so amazing. I feel so cool. Like I'm working in New York City, I'm working on a hit show. And then I'm like, oh I want that crafty. So I'm like going back to the and I opened the door, and as I'm opening the door, Matt Bomer is walking in, and I wasn't expecting to see him.

So I was like, oh hey. And he was trying to be honest. Cool. Yeah, I was trying not to be a weirdo, but he has like the most beautiful eyes. Like, seriously, you're like, he really, his eyes are very beautiful. Um, so I was just like, oh, I'm just looking for crafty. And he's like, okay, I'm just looking for a place to run over some things. Um, and he was very, very nice and very kind, and that was just really special because you know it was my first time. You know, and I thought I was like the shit. I was like, yes, like I had my own name tag.

[1:56] Samantha Tuozzolo: You thought you were the shit.

[1:57] Jason A. Coombs: That was a good one. That was a very beautiful experience. Um, yeah. So wait, have you watched Firefly Lane?

[2:04] Samantha Tuozzolo: No, I heard it's really good though.

[2:06] Jason A. Coombs: Yeah, so I binged the whole thing. It is so good. I don't know. I know we like to talk about in the mic check something that's inspiring to us, any art we've recently seen. And I don't know. This show was super inspiring to me for art, but also for like real life and friendships. It's the values and genuine friendships of like ups and downs was really beautiful to see and like life's ups and downs. I also love that Katherine Heigl is a producer on it. I'm like, yes, girl, get it. Produce the thing that you are the lead in. And by the way, I'm saying that with confidence. I'm 90% sure she's a producer on it. Maybe she's not, but I'm pretty sure.

[2:45] Samantha Tuozzolo: I'm dead.

[2:45] Jason A. Coombs: No, I love that. I love when you like, you know, because it's such a crazy time. We're still in the pandemic, and we're still like so much disaster in the world and our country and so much hate. Having like an outlet to watch something like that, just like takes you out of it, you know. Kind of what this podcast, we kind of hope this podcast does, like gives people a little bit of levity in such hard and challenging, to say the least, times. That's why art is important, you know.

[3:09] Samantha Tuozzolo: Art is so important.

[3:11] Jason A. Coombs: Shit, watching Insecure the like last summer was the highlight of my summer because I was like all alone in my apartment, you know.

[3:18] Samantha Tuozzolo: Oh yeah, because you were still in the city.

[3:18] Jason A. Coombs: I was still in the city, yeah. In the middle of the pandemic, in the middle of all the Black Lives Matter stuff, and just having that half an hour of like Insecure.

[3:29] Samantha Tuozzolo: Do you know something sick? I'm embarrassed to say I've never seen Insecure.

[3:33] Jason A. Coombs: Oh my gosh, you gotta watch. And also Freebag.

[3:37] Samantha Tuozzolo: I know I'm sick. I just I love to rewatch things I love. For example, Scandal, for example, Law and Order: SVU. Like, I'm a sicko, and I rewatch it. I mean, I watch The Office like every day. I think it's sick, but I also love to do it.

[3:49] Jason A. Coombs: No, I'm the same. I literally was watching The Office before this. Let me tell you something else.

[3:53] Samantha Tuozzolo: Sick.

[3:53] Jason A. Coombs: Never watched The Office.

[3:55] Samantha Tuozzolo: I know. Don't even look at me like that.

[3:57] Jason A. Coombs: Quitting the podcast.

[3:59] Samantha Tuozzolo: No, you can't. You have to watch The Office. It's so funny.

[4:04] Jason A. Coombs: I will. No, I'm serious.

[4:05] Samantha Tuozzolo: All right. By the time we talk next, I promise I'll watch The Office.

[4:09] Jason A. Coombs: Okay, tell me the quick story.

[4:10] Samantha Tuozzolo: Nine seasons.

[4:12] Jason A. Coombs: No, you only gotta watch the first five.

[4:13] Samantha Tuozzolo: Okay, but I did a web series. I'll make this really short. I did a web series called Shaw a couple years ago, and it was like a mockumentary, like documentary type thing. Everyone's like, you gotta watch The Office, you gotta watch The Office. Like when I wrote it, they read the script. They're like, oh, gotta watch The Office. I was like, okay. So I watched The Office, the first episode, and it was so bad. It was just not funny. I was not into it. I was like, this is not looking like my show. My show was inspired by Modern Family. I love Modern Family.

[4:40] Jason A. Coombs: Never watched Modern Family either.

[4:42] Samantha Tuozzolo: Oh my god.

[4:43] Jason A. Coombs: I was like, okay, I'm gonna try it one more time, and I end up watching until episode two, and episode two was so funny, and I kept watching, and that was like my favorite show.

[4:52] Samantha Tuozzolo: Okay, I promise the next time we talk, I will talk to you about The Office, and I promise I will have watched at least a pilot of Modern Family too.

[5:00] Jason A. Coombs: Okay, fine.

[5:02] Samantha Tuozzolo: It's so good.

[5:02] Jason A. Coombs: I've okay. I lied. I have like seen Modern Family on in reruns, but I've never like sat and watched it.

[5:03] Samantha Tuozzolo: You like the drama, that's why.

[5:12] Jason A. Coombs: I do, but you know that Shonda Rhimes writing.

[5:13] Samantha Tuozzolo: Oh, I love Shonda Rhimes.

[5:15] Jason A. Coombs: I never watched Grey's Anatomy, but I love How to Get Away with Murder and Scandal. And I got yeah, I'm like, I love SVU, I love Dick Wolf, I love Chicago Fire, Chicago Med. King Drama. I think it's kind of sick. In my mind, I want to be on like a, I want to be Olivia Pope, Olivia Benson.

[5:35] Samantha Tuozzolo: I want the Olivia's Olivia from The Cosby Show. I mean, Annalise Keating. Give me a break. Hello.

[5:44] Jason A. Coombs: Oh my gosh. I miss her.

[5:46] Samantha Tuozzolo: We love Viola.

[5:48] Jason A. Coombs: Oh my god, here we are talking about Viola again.

[5:51] Samantha Tuozzolo: I know. We know what we know. Did you see Ma Rainey?

[5:56] Jason A. Coombs: We talked about this, right?

[5:57] Samantha Tuozzolo: We didn't. I mean, we did, but yes, I saw Ma Rainey. She's a revelation, y'all. Give her the Oscar.

[6:04] Jason A. Coombs: So everyone, the real reason we're here today talking is to talk to our good friend, amazing artist Mary Mcgowan.

[6:14] Samantha Tuozzolo: I'm sorry, Mary. Cynthia McGowan, people.

[6:17] Jason A. Coombs: Yes, she is a director. She is a producer, an actor, and an assistant based in Brooklyn, New York. You miss New York.

[6:27] Mary Mcgowan: Um, she is a 2017 graduate of Syracuse University, where she received her BFA in acting, and she even studied abroad at Shakespeare's Globe Theater in London.

[6:41] Samantha Tuozzolo: Badass.

[6:42] Jason A. Coombs: Boom, boom, boom.

[6:44] Mary Mcgowan: Yes, and since she graduated, she's worked as an associate and assistant director, as well as in arts administration at various venues, including the American Repertory Theater, Master Voices, New York City Center, where she was the assistant director of Evita. Um, and currently she has been working as one of the assistant directors of the 1776 revival that will one day be on Broadway.

[7:10] Samantha Tuozzolo: So basically, Mary and Broadway opens up such a badass when Broadway opens up.

[7:15] Jason A. Coombs: That's right, Jesus. Soon, soon, soon.

[7:18] Samantha Tuozzolo: Yes, we love Mary, and we cannot wait to talk to her.

[7:20] Jason A. Coombs: So we hope you guys and we worked with her.

[7:23] Samantha Tuozzolo: Yes, we all did.

[7:24] Jason A. Coombs: So I'm sure we will touch on that also.

[7:28] Samantha Tuozzolo: Yeah, I love it.

[7:29] Jason A. Coombs: I love her.

[7:30] Samantha Tuozzolo: I love it.

[7:31] Jason A. Coombs: Let's get it.

[7:31] Samantha Tuozzolo: Let's get it.

[7:33] Jason A. Coombs: All right. Let's go talk to Mary.

[7:35] Samantha Tuozzolo: Yes, Mary.

[7:37] Jason A. Coombs: Mary Mcgowan.

[7:38] Samantha Tuozzolo: Mary.

[7:41] Jason A. Coombs: There's something about Mary.

[7:43] Samantha Tuozzolo: Hi, Mary. Welcome to Survival Jobs: A Podcast.

[7:48] Mary Mcgowan: Thank you so much, Sam.

[7:50] Samantha Tuozzolo: I’m so happy to have you, Mary.

[7:52] Mary Mcgowan: Yeah, I was gonna say the same. I feel honored to be in your presence.

[7:54] Samantha Tuozzolo: You should not.

[7:54] Mary Mcgowan: I feel honored to be on my first ever podcast.

[8:03] Jason A. Coombs: This is your first ever podcast?

[8:05] Mary Mcgowan: I listen to a lot of podcasts, but I've never done a podcast.

[8:09] Samantha Tuozzolo: I can't believe we're taking your podcast doing virginity.

[8:09] Mary Mcgowan: Yeah.

[8:09] Jason A. Coombs: Podcast doing virginity.

[8:17] Mary Mcgowan: So also the podcasts I listen to are all like about murder.

[8:22] Jason A. Coombs: So this is new in that way too.

[8:24] Mary Mcgowan: You know, that's funny because when preparing for this podcast, I was listening to a ton of podcasts, and every single thing out there is murder.

[8:35] Jason A. Coombs: 90% of the podcasts on Apple are murder.

[8:39] Mary Mcgowan: And I listen to every single one of them.

[8:42] Jason A. Coombs: Do you get scared?

[8:43] Mary Mcgowan: Or are you okay?

[8:45] Jason A. Coombs: I'm okay.

[8:46] Mary Mcgowan: See, usually when I listen to a murder podcast, I think I then will be murdered.

[8:51] Jason A. Coombs: Well, I sort of think the same thing, but I also feel like I'm more prepared.

[8:56] Mary Mcgowan: Like I would know how to get out of those situations.

[9:00] Jason A. Coombs: Right.

[9:01] Mary Mcgowan: Now you know the truth.

[9:02] Jason A. Coombs: Facts.

[9:02] Mary Mcgowan: Facts, facts, facts for sure.

[9:05] Jason A. Coombs: That's how I feel about Reddit when I look up like the Stranger Dangers on McReddit. Or like, I don't know if you guys know that, but I'd be reading all those before bed, and I'm like, oh, at least I'll know like how to escape if like someone tries to get my ass or something. Which is like very rare. Like who's gonna get me? But you know.

[9:20] Mary Mcgowan: Do you then have crazy dreams if you're reading this before bed?

[9:24] Jason A. Coombs: No.

[9:25] Mary Mcgowan: Excellent.

[9:26] Jason A. Coombs: Well, I did have a crazy dream yesterday, which is so off topic. But Oprah was telling me I need to write every day in my dream.

[9:33] Mary Mcgowan: Isn't it crazy?

[9:34] Jason A. Coombs: Then you have to do it.

[9:35] Mary Mcgowan: You have to.

[9:36] Jason A. Coombs: Yo! By the way, this is episode three. We've talked about Oprah on every single episode so far.

[9:42] Mary Mcgowan: And by the way, it's only three, but still that's funny.

[9:46] Jason A. Coombs: Maybe that's why. But I was like, that's just a weird dream to have. Like Oprah telling me to write every day. It's like a premonition.

[9:53] Mary Mcgowan: Yeah.

[9:54] Jason A. Coombs: Sorry, off topic.

[9:55] Mary Mcgowan: Off topic. Well, anyway, Mary, this podcast is not about murder. Sorry to break your heart. But we really wanted to bring you on here and talk about your survival jobs, your art, what you're up to, what you've been up to, how you got to where you are, you're thriving. So we just wanted to talk to you and have a great old time.

[10:23] Jason A. Coombs: So I think we're just gonna jump right in. And I want to ask you right away what was your best survival job and why?

[10:31] Mary Mcgowan: Obviously, it was working at Javelina next to Sam and Jason, one nineteen East 18th Street. Look at me remembering. I could almost give you the phone number, probably.

[10:41] Jason A. Coombs: I could too.

[10:42] Mary Mcgowan: 212-539-0202.

[10:45] Jason A. Coombs: Okay, I couldn't. I couldn't. Call them for takeout. This is an ad.

[10:51] Mary Mcgowan: Um, and I think it was my favorite. Definitely, definitely because of the people. And we had a great group of people there.

[10:57] Jason A. Coombs: We did. We really did.

[11:01] Mary Mcgowan: It was a good crew, man. Do you have like a fun story? Like one of your favorite stories from working there?

[11:08] Jason A. Coombs: Like I feel like I ended up staffing that entire restaurant with members of my graduating class. Like just like one by one. I was just like adding on staff members to the point where like the schedule was literally like Syracuse class of 2017 plus like three other people. And I thought that was really funny because I started working there the summer between my sophomore and junior year. And then I worked there like the next summer too. And then the next summer was I had graduated, but I did my last semester of college in New York City and worked at Javelina like on the nights. And my last class was like an exercise thing that we did, like a fitness class. I remember when you did I would like sprint from wherever it was, like East 30th Street to Union Square, like do some dry shampoo and like go to the host stand. Um, the host stand that was like teetering on collapse the entire time I worked there.

[12:13] Jason A. Coombs: It was like on the bar.

[12:15] Mary Mcgowan: For sure. To sidebar and interject right before this pandemic, a beautiful, beautiful host stand was built. Sturdy, beautiful, built, like from wood.

[12:27] Jason A. Coombs: From wood, obviously.

[12:29] Mary Mcgowan: But like it could have been metal.

[12:31] Jason A. Coombs: Yeah, like custom made.

[12:33] Mary Mcgowan: So I'm so sorry that you had to miss that host stand, Mary.

[12:37] Jason A. Coombs: Didn't you get that job because you had dinner there?

[12:39] Mary Mcgowan: I did because I went to have dinner there with my dad because my mom is from Texas and we love queso. That's how most people end up at Javelina.

[12:49] Jason A. Coombs: Yeah.

[12:50] Mary Mcgowan: Some type of thing like that. And it was like just opening. It was like the first or second week it had opened. And we were like, queso in New York, like let's go. And I was looking for a job because, um, I mean, number one, I just needed a job, but I was studying abroad in London my junior year. So it was like the summer before that. So I was trying to like work really hard that summer, like make all the money that I could so that I could like bring it abroad with me. Um, and I was looking for a restaurant job, but I didn't have any restaurant experience. And we sit down to have dinner at Javelina, and our server was Brian, who my dad knew. Love him, give him a shout-out.

[13:30] Jason A. Coombs: Shout out to Brian.

[13:33] Mary Mcgowan: And my dad and him had worked together before. And I was like, oh, this place is new. Like, are they hiring? Because we like already knew him. And he was like, they might be hiring some hosts. And I was just like, I'd like to host here, and they were like, okay. And then I like showed up the next day. And I was like, I'm going in for an interview. And they were like, these are the tables. I feel like that's how all of the training shifts went at Javelina. Like you showed up thinking you were either training or in an interview, and you were like, oh yeah. Here's a menu. When I was like retraining to be like a server, I think I was like, oh, I'll just, you know, be shadowing and like learning how to do this.

[14:12] Mary Mcgowan: And then by like halfway through the night, I had like five tables that like had only talked to me. And I was like, okay. You're like, dip the taquito in the white case, so it's excellent. It's like, listen to me. They're wanting me to upsell you, and I'm not going to think to me. You don't want to add a float? You don't want to add a floater? I was so bad at that, Jason. I was like, BTSD. No, listen, Sam. I would straight up remember when we'd have contests. So we'd have contests for the people listening that didn't work at Havalina. And which I'm sure there's it's you know, an uneven. Um probably worked at Avalina. I probably also think that. We'd have like contests for like whoever could upsell the most.

And I would go up to a table and be like, they want me to give you Casamigos, which is three extra dollars. I think Espalone is just as good, and it's one extra dollar, and it's still gonna do me a solid for this contest. And then sometimes the tables would just like go with me, and I'd have the most upsells. Technically, it would be the least amount of money, but I would just be like straight up and be like, it's one dollar difference, and I could win something, and it would work. I've never thought of that before because she was my manager. That's a great strategy though, to win. Right. Hey guys, I could win, and instead of you paying three, you can pay one, and I would do that. I would still win.

And it's it is better tequila, right? Yeah, and I don't, by the way, I don't drink a ton of tequila, but I don't think there's much of a difference. By the way, we're trying to get Cosmigos to sponsor us one day, so I don't want to say this, but I don't think there's much of a difference between Espalone and Cosmigos. Well, unless, unless the person's like, I want a skinny margarita, and then you're like, You should really get Casamigos because it's like smoother. You don't need as much agave. That would always be a good idea. I always say that. Yeah. You guys did. So funny. I'd be like, yeah, you don't need as much sugar with the Casamigos. And people be like, hmm, healthy. And then they would get it. Yep. Healthy. Do you want to make it skinny? Yeah. Guys, I'm having a lot of things. Maybe I taught Jason that. Maybe that's why Jason does that. Well, I love that that's your best survival job.

[16:21] Samantha Tuozzolo: Well, I was gonna transition to what was your worst survival job since you talked about the best one.

[16:26] Mary Mcgowan: I'm torn between two things. You're not gonna be a good one. Not because either was like, no, I know which one's gonna be worse, but I'll share both just like while we're talking survival jobs. I don't even know if this was really a survival job, but I was a camp counselor. Um, and I just like sometimes have problems. Like, I'm I'm not like the hugest child fan. Um and the age group I was assigned to was like the youngest group at camp. It was like eight-year-olds, so I was in charge of like a cabin of 12 eight-year-olds that were like away from home for the first time, and it just was like I'd say that was like my hardest survival job, which is like why I thought it might be the worst. But I it was a camp that I went to and that I loved and that I had a lot of friends at.

So I don't think that that was the worst, but like it was comical that that was something that I was in charge of at like 16 or 17. But I think the worst was at the same summer that I started at Havelina, like I said, I was like really trying to build up my funds to go to London.

[17:28] Jason A. Coombs: Get that cash money.

[17:29] Mary Mcgowan: Yeah, getting that cash money. I was working two jobs. The other job, I was a sales associate at Urban Outfitters. It wasn't it wasn't really bad there, but I did not like working in retail at all. Retail is literally the worst thing ever. It was terrible. And also I think like what I said about like why Javelina is my favorite being the people is like that is not a thing at retail because you're all stationed at different places. There's like so many people that work for the companies. So you're not scheduled consistently with people you like know. So there's no like building up anything, and you just go and you're by yourself. And I was always assigned like a really early morning before the store opens.

So I would just like sit on the corner in the West Village, like on a stoop and drink coffee. Cause I would like I'm so early. Like both of you know that I'm early always to everything. So I would get there like yeah, I would get there like 25 minutes early, and then the but the store is locked. And the person with the key would get there like five minutes past when they were supposed to. So I would just sit there and be like, What am I doing? So that was the worst for sure. But I got like it was a good pro tip because I had that employee discount. So I was getting the clothes that I was wearing to Javelina from Urban Outfitters.

[18:48] Samantha Tuozzolo: What was your role there?

[18:50] Mary Mcgowan: Like you were just like, please get this cute shirt on sale. I when you work there as like a general sales associate, I guess from my memory, it's like I've almost repressed it, but you could get assigned like different positions in the store and you would like switch around. So one of them was like the greeter, which is like the person that just like stands at the front and is like, hey, you know, for like five hours. Um like bye, thank you, like that kind of person. Um, then there's like the cash register you work sometimes. I that was always my favorite because you could like talk to people and see what they bought. Like I always like seeing what people like ended up with.

[19:31] Jason A. Coombs: That is fun.

[19:32] Mary Mcgowan: It's like a little nosy, but you know what I mean? Or like why someone is returning something. Like, I feel like that's a real interesting place to be. And then there's like, you know, the person that helps you get the dressing room. There's all sorts of possibilities as a sales associate.

[19:48] Samantha Tuozzolo: How long do you do them all?

[19:51] Mary Mcgowan: Oh, like two months max.

[19:53] Jason A. Coombs: You were like, I've got to get out of here.

[19:55] Mary Mcgowan: I realize that like saying that now makes it sound like I really gave up, but it was like the summer. So I think I think I like stuck with it like the whole summer that I was in New York from college, and then I was like, no. Listen, two months is long.

[20:19] Jason A. Coombs: Two months is really commitment.

[20:22] Samantha Tuozzolo: Proud of you, girl.

[20:23] Mary Mcgowan: I guess. I mean, retail is the worst. You do you have to do like ever have to do the gene wall?

[20:28] Jason A. Coombs: Like folding, you have to fold everything back in place, all that.

[20:33] Mary Mcgowan: I still have I used to work at a clothing store for five years. Um worked at the gap, and I was like, it was my first like real job, and I was like 16. So like every time I go like clothing shopping, I still have to fold everything. So they get like like you know that feeling like oh me too. I always fold stuff when I put it. Yeah, because you feel like oh how bad it was like when people were working, so I just always like fold stuff. If you're looking for something at the bottom and the people that mess up like all the ones before that, it's like you can lift a stack. I know they would just like rip it out. That would always blow my mind. Like they'd rifle through the smalls. And it's like if you know you're looking for a large, like just pick them up.

[21:10] Jason A. Coombs: Okay, Mary. So obviously you worked survival jobs because you had a larger goal.

[21:16] Samantha Tuozzolo: So why did you choose to become an artist?

[21:20] Mary Mcgowan: You know, I always feel sort of lame when I don't know. I guess like a lot of artist artists and artist friends of mine, it's like there's always this kind of like I knew I wanted to be an artist when and there's like some kind of thing that like draws you to being an artist that that is the reason that you are one, I guess if that makes sense. But for me, I think I never really thought about doing anything else besides working in theater. Definitely had to do with my dad working in theater. And I always kind of like I think when you're a kid like you just think that an adult does whatever your parents do. You're like that's what you you grow up and like that's what you do.

[22:00] Samantha Tuozzolo: Yeah.

[22:01] Mary Mcgowan: And my mom works several jobs. She was a librarian. She worked in the fashion industry. She's a food designer. She has like all sorts of cool things that she's done. But uh a lot of my like formative years she was home with us. Um so like the example I had of like a job job was my dad and he's an actor and I think that's sort of why I was like okay so I'll be an actor like it was just kind of like that's what you do when you grow up and and then you're in the school play and then by that point you've been in so many of them they're like pick a college major and you're like theater I guess because like I that's all I'm good at. And then you're in college so then what can you do after college?

You know and I I think it it I'm not trying to say that I'm not passionate about it because I'm so passionate about it. And I think I'm like exactly where I'm supposed to be as far as like working in this field. But I think like that initial spark for me isn't something that I think everyone has. I think it was just like overexposure. I saw so much theater. I like digested so much art and I was around it all the time. And I was around like adults that worked in it all the time. And it was just kind of like a natural fit for me.

[23:14] Samantha Tuozzolo: Yeah.

[23:14] Mary Mcgowan: I feel like also because your dad was on Broadway, right?

[23:18] Samantha Tuozzolo: If I'm not speaking.

[23:19] Mary Mcgowan: Yeah. So I think also seeing how like that's like the pinnacle for a theater artist, right? To be on Broadway. That must have been hugely influential.

[23:26] Samantha Tuozzolo: Influential, influential for you.

[23:30] Mary Mcgowan: Yeah. I think I also had like the luck, or like I was lucky enough to always think of a career in the arts as something that was attainable. Like I didn't have that moment that was like, oh, you're risking everything. You know, you have those check-ins as you go. Like in college, you have your moments of like, why am I majoring in this? Like, what am I doing? Um, or like in this pandemic, for example, like, what are we doing? Um example, exactly. Or for a big example. But I think like it wasn't something that was unattainable to me. I always had like comfort with professional theater with Broadway, with like film and TV shows. It wasn't something that was like starry and far away. It was just something that like people did, which I think like, you know, that that translates to a lot of life. Like, if you see someone actually do it, it like makes it just makes goals more realistic or like they feel more realistic.

[24:24] Samantha Tuozzolo: For sure.

[24:25] Mary Mcgowan: Which I think is so nice from what you just said. Like you had a different experience. You were like, oh, this is great and it's attainable, and I can do it just like you said, versus like everyone else being like, well, have a backup plan. Well, it's hard. Well, this, well, that. Like you were given permission to a dream at such a young age.

[24:44] Samantha Tuozzolo: I don't even know if you really realized that you were like dreaming.

[24:48] Mary Mcgowan: It was just normal.

[24:49] Samantha Tuozzolo: I love it.

[24:49] Mary Mcgowan: It was reality.

[24:50] Samantha Tuozzolo: How fun.

[24:53] Mary Mcgowan: And I mean, you know, if my dad like listens to this, he would be like, No, I was like, Why are you being an actress? Like, I'm sure that in my head too. But like, it was always in a way, like, what are you gonna tell me? Like, you can't, you know, like yeah.

[25:07] Samantha Tuozzolo: That's like a big thing what I'm doing with like the film festival is like trying to empower people to know that these are dreams that can become reality. So I relate to that so much, Mary.

[25:15] Mary Mcgowan: I love that.

[25:17] Samantha Tuozzolo: Yeah, that was an excellent answer.

[25:20] Mary Mcgowan: I know, right?

[25:21] Samantha Tuozzolo: I'm saying it was like an excellent answer, like she made it up.

[25:24] Mary Mcgowan: That's just her life, that's just her truth.

[25:32] Samantha Tuozzolo: Thank you for not lying to us.

[25:34] Mary Mcgowan: I would never, except for about upselling casuming goes.

[25:39] Jason A. Coombs: Casamigos, please smoke survival jobs a podcast.

[25:43] Mary Mcgowan: Yes, amigo's cosmigos. Are you listening?

[25:45] Jason A. Coombs: Yeah, are you out there?

[25:49] Mary Mcgowan: Hello, George. You know, just a sidebar quickly. I had this regular Havelina for a long time. You guys probably would know her if you saw her. And I I I'm Are we talking about Jody?

[26:00] Jason A. Coombs: No, but let's shout out Jody.

[26:02] Mary Mcgowan: Maybe she'll listen.

[26:03] Jason A. Coombs: Shout out to you too.

[26:04] Mary Mcgowan: Yes, Jodie. This woman, I can't remember her name, but we are Instagram friends. And every time she came to the restaurant, her and her husband would come every Friday. And every time she came, she said, Can I please have a strawberry George? She wanted a strawberry margarita on the rocks with Casamigos, but she ordered a strawberry George.

[26:23] Jason A. Coombs: People love George Clooney.

[26:25] Mary Mcgowan: I wonder if now people are gonna start trying to upsell um. Didn't Kendall Jenner just come out with a tequila?

[26:30] Jason A. Coombs: Did she?

[26:31] Mary Mcgowan: She did. I saw on Instagram because my roommates and I are watching keeping up with the Kardashians.

[26:37] Jason A. Coombs: That's where we're at in this pandemic.

[26:38] Mary Mcgowan: Listen, I've been binging because we're in the final.

[26:41] Jason A. Coombs: It's today Thursday.

[26:43] Mary Mcgowan: Yeah. New episode today.

[26:45] Jason A. Coombs: Well, we're on season three.

[26:46] Mary Mcgowan: So for the first time.

[26:49] Jason A. Coombs: Correct.

[26:51] Mary Mcgowan: I've never been into reality TV, to be honest, until this year. Like we have watched so much. It's probably just to like watch people live life.

[26:59] Jason A. Coombs: Right.

[27:00] Mary Mcgowan: Because you're like, I'm not experiencing much like masochistic thing that we're like, oh my god, it's so good.

[27:07] Jason A. Coombs: Goodness.

[27:08] Mary Mcgowan: Mary, speaking of being in a pandemic, yeah, and just being an artist. Like, I know you said your dad was so influential and he made you feel like you know, you could do this, right? Was there ever a point when you felt like giving it up?

[27:23] Mary Mcgowan: Not doing this, being a pavement, trying to, you know, act and direct and being creative. I mean, sort of all the time.

[27:34] Jason A. Coombs: Yes, to me, like every day.

[27:34] Mary Mcgowan: I'm like, when I'm gonna do it. Yeah, I'm like pretty much every time I give myself time to think. Yeah, I think for sure. I think there's been different like moments. I think when I was deciding um whether or not to pursue acting in college, like when I was trying to decide what to apply for to college for, I went through like a time where I was like, maybe I shouldn't. I always really like school, like I liked, I'm like a very academic person, and I was like super nerdy all of high school, like all the APs, like really study, study, study.

[28:09] Mary Mcgowan: And I think I got, you know, I always like prided myself on like getting really good grades and like studying really hard. And then when it was time to apply for college, I was like, I should be like applying for like actual colleges like the way that I was thinking about it. Maybe this is the time to like choose to not be an academic, but like pick something like journalism or like English or science of some sort. Like I was always I just like went through that for a bit. Um, but then I was kind of like, I don't want to work in any of those fields. So I think you go to college to like prepare yourself for the field, um, which I think is what ended up being my sort of ultimate decision there.

And then I'd say like I also kind of went through that when I was like not transitioning out of acting because I I still consider myself sort of an actor and like I could see myself doing it at some point if I was like given an opportunity to do so. But I had a lot of like doubts, sort of my first like year out of college, kind of like navigating the acting scene where I was like, this is trash. And I guess I kind of did give up in a way there. Like we can call that a give up for sure. I was like, I'm gonna take a full-time job in administrative work. So I think that, you know, was a decision that I made that kind of was like giving up in one way, but like following a different path in another.

And then I'd say now is kind of like the third time. And I think that this one sort of points to something else. I'm feeling a bit, so it was acting, then I was directing for a while for me. Like I was like, that's what I can do. And now I'm kind of like into the world of producing a little more. And I think it's because I think it's because I don't think my original ideas are like whoa, what is needed, sort of like the narrative that I like maybe operate in as like a cis white woman that's like semi-privileged, that's like always done theater. Like, I don't think I need to be like, I'm gonna put this piece of art. It's gonna be so important. Like, I don't think it is gonna be important. And like that's fine.

Like, I don't need to have that like original idea. And I think like producing is kind of an interesting way to like not latch on to other people's brilliance, but like sort of like I think if you like believe in something, there's like something kind of beautiful about like, oh, I could like help make that happen, and I could like be a really valuable part of this process, but I don't need to like generate it, like it doesn't, and I think like my skills too are very like task-oriented, so I guess that that doesn't speak to like giving up, but I think it speaks to like giving up like different types of like there are like different parts of myself as an artist that I think I have sort of given up, but not in like a defeatist way, just in a like I there's a phrase that Diane actually says a lot, who is who I work for for like three years before this, and she always would say to like actors in rehearsal, she would say, hold on tightly, let go lightly.

And I feel like that is kind of like a very good mantra of like when you think you want something, like hold on to it tightly. But if it's like time to like move past it, that's like also and it shouldn't be like a big deal. I love that so much.

[31:01] Jason A. Coombs: Yeah, like my mouth was just like dropped open. It's like listening like a big dummy. Kind of remind me of what Robin, Robin was our guest on the last episode. He was talking about having that kind of like parallel career. Do you remember that, Samia?

[31:28] Samantha Tuozzolo: Yes.

[31:28] Jason A. Coombs: He was saying like you can have, you know, your artistic um endeavors, and you can have something else on the side, which is like not on the side, it's like parallel, it's like a parallel career. You can do both. And I love that that you saw that. Like you have this, you're task-oriented, you're goal-oriented, you know, like you maybe don't have the story to tell right now, so you're gonna help other people make that happen. And I thought that that's very good awareness that you have there.

[31:49] Mary Mcgowan: I don't know. I really admire that.

[31:51] Jason A. Coombs: Yeah, that's great awareness, and also I also love that you, although quote, are like giving up on acting, but like not, but you're still staying in the field in different ways, right? Like you're still staying creative and using your training and and passion in all these different ways, which sort of brings us to our next question, which you kind of already answered. But I'm gonna ask it anyway because you have something else to say. So you made a clear like transition from acting to directing, right? So, like, what made you do that? Slash, can you share some of your experiences with your assistant directing? Because by the way, like pretty fierce, Mary, City Center and 1776 on Broadway, like those are big giant projects that are like amazing that you're able to do that and be a part of that.

[32:45] Mary Mcgowan: Yeah, I mean some scoop. I'll give you the scoop, Sam. Um I think you know, the clear transition moment for me. Again, like I feel like I keep like not answering your questions, but like I think that's the point.

[33:01] Jason A. Coombs: No, we love that on this podcast.

[33:04] Mary Mcgowan: I love to talk.

[33:05] Jason A. Coombs: We know we do. We always get sidetracked.

[33:07] Mary Mcgowan: Good. Okay. Then then I'm gonna lean into it. Um, I think it wasn't like a conscious choice for me. I think it was kind of like I always sort of liked both. I mean, actually, going back to like earlier, like talking about how much theater I was around as a kid. My dad always jokes that he like knew before I did that I was gonna like want to be a director because we would go see shows, or like I would go see him in shows. Like he did Wicked for like half my life, basically. He's like done over like I oh, I don't want to get the number wrong. He's done over like 2500 performances of Wicked. I think he would notice that I would go to the show, and like the first thing I would talk about after was like that I could tell that like that dancer was out, so they covered them with that dancer, and like they actually had a different wig in that scene than the person that usually does it, and like why is that?

And like I would like be talking about those types of things, and he always just like thought that was kind of interesting because I was like 12, but I was like, Oh, noticing sort of like the movements of the performers and kind of like the show as a whole versus like I want to play Glinda one day, you know.

[34:10] Jason A. Coombs: Right.

[34:12] Mary Mcgowan: First of all, you know, obviously I could never think that since I'm a bass baritone, but besides that point, I I think anyway, so I always kind of like carried both interests. And then in college, I did a little bit of directing because uh uh I went to Syracuse and they have pretty good opportunities for like performance majors directing if they wanted to. And when I would the the time that I came to New York, I think was like a cool wave of like like Lila Neugebauer was getting really big. Rachel Chavkin was getting really big, like there were kind of these like emerging off Broadway, like badass female directors that I like saw their work and like really, really liked it and was like, why do I like these three plays?

Oh, they're all like the same director. Like, that's interesting. And and I started kind of like doing reach outs that way, just being like, I'd love to assist some of them or watch them or whatever, and you know, you just like do your emails and hope for the best. I guess being bold, yes, you know, like you gotta do it. And eventually that led me to meeting Sammy Canhold, who's this like amazing director that everyone should know about. She's like incredible, but she sort of just like graciously answered one of my emails and was like, I'd love to like have coffee with you. So I had coffee with her, and we like became kind of fast friends. And she's how I ended up getting the job at ART, um, because she had done some work there and like knew that they were looking for someone and had only met me like twice, but was like, you should apply.

I think you'd be good for it, and kind of like one thing led to another there. And Sammy is who I ended up actually taking like two weeks off from ART. I like took vacation from ART to assist Sammy on Evita at City Center. So that's how Evita happened. And I think she had this amazing associate, Rebecca Aprisio, who's another like amazing director, badass lady. So I worked with the two of them on that while sort of doing ART. And then I think because of that, yeah. I think because of that, like that was a good sign to the folks there that I still was pretty serious about productions too, like and wanting to work in that way and not just administratively how I had been. And I had assisted Diane Paulus at the ART on a smaller show right before that.

It was like a cabaret and they needed an assistant director. And I kind of was like, I would love to do that because it's like it wasn't like a Broadway-bound situation. It was very much like this is gonna be a short-term thing here. And I was like, This is a great way to like do that. And then that was a great experience. We worked together super well. So then when 1776 started getting into development, and it was sort of clear there would be two assistant directors. So there's this amazing, another amazing director, Brisa Aureli Munoz, and she is one of the assistant directors, and then I'm the other one. And theoretically, that show is happening. It is, it is. It's not theoretical, but the mayor said Broadway September.

Yeah. So that actually was supposed to kind of be my like big finale at ART. I was gonna like finish that and then kind of come with the production here. And that production has not happened yet, but I still plan to be a part of it when it does. We've done a reading, a workshop, and like a virtual workshop of that. So I feel I've kind of half done that process so far.

[37:26] Jason A. Coombs: I mean, that's incredible. Also, all of this whole story of everything you just said, all really sort of ties back to sending an email to Sammy. Like if you never sent that email because like maybe you were scared, or like yeah, just goes to show you like you never know, just do everything.

[37:43] Mary Mcgowan: I didn't know that, Mary. I had thought, just by assuming never ever asking you. I just thought that you had known her through the theater community, and then that you guys were friends, and that that's how like this all came to be.

[37:57] Mary Mcgowan: But that's no, I was like, Hi, I think you're cool.

[38:01] Jason A. Coombs: Yeah, she's amazing. She's like a super badass. No, but I love I love how it just shows that there's a lot of people who work in this industry who are very kind and generous and will give you the time of day as long as you obviously have the work ethic like you did, right? But also have the initiative to like advocate for yourself and and not be afraid to reach out.

[38:20] Mary Mcgowan: Totally, and also I think it's like you it's kind of like what they say about auditioning of like you're it's so nerve wracking going into an audition at the same time. Like all of those people behind the table are like praying that you're the right person so they can like end their day and like the show. They're like, please, God be right for this. It like doesn't feel that way, but it kind of is true. And I think it's like the same thing of like reaching out to someone like Sammy is like at first it was very much me, like, please do me this favor. But I think like I'm proud of a lot of the work that I've done, like with and for her, and like to support that production, you know. And I think like it's great for both of us that like that email was great because like we have this great kind of like working relationship together now.

[39:03] Jason A. Coombs: Yeah, of course. You did great work, and obviously you would not be continuing to get these opportunities if you weren't a superstar, which you are.

[39:13] Mary Mcgowan: All right, so you're such a superstar. You know, I always remember the story. Um you, Winston and I sitting at Brooklyn Barge, and you were like on your 25th callback for this play. Do you know what I'm talking about?

[39:28] Mary Mcgowan: I do. I was thinking that today before. Longest audition process of my life.

[39:33] Jason A. Coombs: How many callbacks did you get for this play?

[39:35] Mary Mcgowan: I think seven.

[39:36] Jason A. Coombs: Yeah.

[39:38] Mary Mcgowan: Jeez. And I and it the reason you probably remember it so viscerally is like every night at Havelina, I would get an email at like 11 p.m. that was like, great job today. We'd love you to come back tomorrow. But instead of these three parts that you were reading for, how about these four completely different ones?

[39:54] Jason A. Coombs: Cheers to that.

[39:55] Mary Mcgowan: Mary, you've accomplished so much already. And obviously, there's so much more for you to do. Where do you see yourself artistically in the next five years?

[40:03] Mary Mcgowan: Oh. You thought about that question? You know, I thought about it only since you sent it, which is a bad sign because I feel like people should have five year goals, but I I've been thinking about it since like yesterday when I got this email. Um, I don't really know. I don't, I don't know where I see myself artistically. I think to the day the answer changes like every day. I think right now, just because of like what I'm currently doing, it I feel like it's producing, but like I can't tell if that's just because like what I do now like most resembles that or if that's like what I want to do. And also I don't know if like I think what I want to do changes. Like I'm so type A. I'm like one of the most type A people I know.

I'm sure both of you are like, yes, absolutely. Uh by the way I like handled the iPad when hosting. Um the way I would plan out tables is like and there's a psychopath three hour wait list. Yeah, for sure. Like you have to be kind of crazy to do that. But but I think because of that, I often think that what I want to do is what I'm good at. And I like try to resist that too, because I'm like, you can want to do stuff that you're like more passionate about. Like I feel like in like a dream space, maybe I'd see myself artistically in like five years, probably directing, but like my brain tells me that it's producing because like those skills I feel like I'm just like better at them. So like I'm such a realist that like that's I think where I see myself. I mean, I hope so. I I could be so lucky to see myself there.

[41:35] Jason A. Coombs: Yeah. I think I see myself following that path. And I think part of it is that I really like it. And I think part of it is that I like think that I could do it. And I like am so psycho that I'm like, I want to do something that I can like definitely accomplish. If you were to to sidebar, if you were to direct, what is your like dream project to direct?

[41:57] Mary Mcgowan: I think it's like I think it's one that doesn't exist yet. Like I think it's like a new play, like a cool new play that I like find really important and interesting and like think that I have something special to contribute to. And I think like that's what would make me want to direct again, is like if there's something that I like want to direct.

[42:15] Mary Mcgowan: That I'm not gonna like can't not do it.

[42:18] Jason A. Coombs: Yeah.

[42:18] Mary Mcgowan: So good that you're gonna do it.

[42:19] Jason A. Coombs: And like I feel like if I do it, it's like what it needs to be.

[42:23] Jason A. Coombs: Okay, Mary, if you had to work your least favorite survival job for the rest of your life to have your dream artistic job for only three years and then have to return to that survival job. But like your ultimate goddamn dream, would you do it?

[42:38] Mary Mcgowan: Well, I think I'm gonna set like an unpopular standard because I think you're gonna have a lot of artists on here. I'm not saying I'm not an artist, but I feel like you're gonna have like artist artists, you know what I mean, that are like that have more passionate answers to the questions you've asked me so far that are gonna say yes. Um, but I think I'm gonna say no. And I think it's not because I don't like value my survival jobs. I like think that like that is totally a way to live that is like admirable and fine and great in some scenarios, also because you can like clock in and clock out, which I think is like so underrated. Um I think because I don't have such a clear dream for myself, and also because I like have been lucky enough to be working consistently in theater, but not in like a dream space, if that makes sense.

Like I would rather sort of continue to do this type of thing than and like never have that kind of like three year dream moment, but to sort of be like consistently in the space for a longer period of time. Still fulfilled.

[43:48] Jason A. Coombs: Yeah.

[43:49] Mary Mcgowan: I mean, and you know, there are like months go by where you're like, well, I'm not feeling that way, like feeling fulfilled artistically. But I think like I've just been lucky to kind of be consistently like working in theater. So I think I would rather continue to do that kind of thing, um, be it in like a not sort of dreamy position than like the ultimate dream and then back to like nothing, like not at all related.

[44:18] Jason A. Coombs: Yeah, I totally agree with you. Like I can't imagine like having I'm at least like I'm unless I'm gonna like die early, but like I can't imagine like living till like 90 and only like living your passion for three years. To bring it back to murder, if you had like a guarantee of dying super early, then I would do it.

[44:34] Mary Mcgowan: Then I would. Then I would say yes.

[44:36] Jason A. Coombs: It is a tough question. I don't know how I would answer it. I wonder how to answer. If if somebody was like Samantha, you are Olivia Benson for three years, like I don't know. Maybe I would say yes because that wow.

[44:49] Mary Mcgowan: Right.

[44:49] Jason A. Coombs: See, like you're someone that I I I would think that you would say yes.

[44:53] Mary Mcgowan: And then going back to like yeah, that anxiety sadness, like I don't know. It's a hard question, but I love it. It's a really like a good question, though. I'm gonna start asking people that just like on a daily basis.

[45:06] Samantha Tuozzolo: Please send us some answer.

[45:07] Jason A. Coombs: I'll report back.

[45:08] Samantha Tuozzolo: We'll share them.

[45:08] Jason A. Coombs: Yeah, we'll do this. You should do it like in um in my favorite murder. They do like a thing called like mini sodes where they do like hometown murders where people like record like their hometown murders and then they just play them.

[45:24] Mary Mcgowan: I love that idea.

[45:25] Jason A. Coombs: Mary, do you want to be the third co-host?

[45:28] Mary Mcgowan: We'll add you into the sketch.

[45:30] Jason A. Coombs: We'll call Lizzie, we'll add you right in.

[45:33] Mary Mcgowan: You know, you could like have people like send that in.

[45:35] Jason A. Coombs: Love it.

[45:36] Mary Mcgowan: I'll just start recording people when I ask them.

[45:38] Jason A. Coombs: Yeah, and then please send it over. Survival jobs at gmail.com.

[45:41] Samantha Tuozzolo: I'm sorry, survival jobs pod at gmail.com.

[45:44] Jason A. Coombs: Thank you.

[45:45] Mary Mcgowan: You have to make the other one an email now so that you can get all the ones.

[45:50] Jason A. Coombs: All right, I'm gonna do them all, get them all as soon as we hit end.

[45:53] Samantha Tuozzolo: Okay, I think we're coming to the close of our interview.

[45:58] Jason A. Coombs: Well, we have two. We have two definities.

[46:01] Samantha Tuozzolo: No, we have a really fun game.

[46:03] Jason A. Coombs: Yeah.

[46:03] Samantha Tuozzolo: Okay. I was just asking you, and you might have answered this already, but I was gonna say, what are you most proud of accomplishing so far in your young career, your young but vibrant career?

[46:13] Mary Mcgowan: Honestly, I think it was my three years at ART. I just, I just sort of I almost said retired. I just finished my a three-year sort of stint um at the American Repertory Theater. And it was like the hardest three years of my life, but also like the best. And I learned more than I think I ever could. And I met like the best people I like loved ever when I worked with there so deeply. But I think that like being an assistant is like the hardest job in any industry. But I think like is something about the entertainment industry that like it is very hard because there's no, you know, there's like no, it's lawless out there. Like there's just like you're working all hours of every day in all the time zones at once, and there's 25 things happening for today and three things you should have done yesterday, and like 25,000 things that are like coming up within the week, but then you also have to be thinking about like a month from now.

And it's just like the way that my brain kind of like expanded and like the amount of things I like learned in that period of time, and the fact that I like stuck with it to be honest. Um, not because it was like something that I I think I shouldn't have. Like, I'm just like proud of myself for like doing very well there and also like maintaining a pretty positive attitude. My coworkers are probably like laughing at me because I like cry a lot, but like it was like in a growth way. You know what I mean?

[47:44] Jason A. Coombs: Yeah and I moved I had to move for it um away from like a city and friends I really loved and I like moved into an apartment by myself in a new city where I didn't know anyone and I like made a little life there for myself. So I think it's that big deal.

[48:00] Mary Mcgowan: It really is big deal great people like good times. I applied out of college for an internship at ART. I did not get it that it was uh like the events internship.

[48:13] Jason A. Coombs: Yeah.

[48:13] Mary Mcgowan: I think apply again to Mary can give you a recommendation.

[48:17] Jason A. Coombs: Oh I don't think I want to be an intern at 30 but all right Mary who's your dream collaboration.

[48:24] Mary Mcgowan: Oh my god I'm gonna end it with like the cheesiest answer ever.

[48:28] Jason A. Coombs: We love cheesy answers.

[48:30] Mary Mcgowan: It's gonna like bring us back to the beginning of our conversation tonight.

[48:33] Jason A. Coombs: We love that too.

[48:35] Mary Mcgowan: I'm I yeah it like for me it like has to be my dad for sure. He always he always jokes that like I'm gonna get to the point where like I'm producing or directing something and he comes in auditions and I say I don't see him as the father for a show. But I actually don't think that's so funny. It's like it's one of his it's one of his go-to jokes but I think it's gonna be I think he actually talks like one of his dream roles is Galileo. And there's a play that is like I'm like embarrassed that I don't know it very well because I think it's like one of his favorites, but he has like a daughter in it, and we've like talked before about that. And he always has wanted to do Galileo in like San Diego in like the open air theater at the Globe there, um, which is somewhere he worked a lot, like when I was a kid growing up. So I think it would be doing Galileo together, playing father and daughter at that theater in San Diego.

[49:33] Samantha Tuozzolo: I want to sob.

[49:35] Mary Mcgowan: I love that so much.

[49:36] Jason A. Coombs: So nice.

[49:37] Mary Mcgowan: Gosh. We love to end our episodes with a quick game just to bring it back to light funness because we get deep on here.

[49:45] Jason A. Coombs: I think we get deep.

[49:46] Mary Mcgowan: We do. This is a great last question, too.

[49:49] Jason A. Coombs: The collaboration? Great.

[49:50] Mary Mcgowan: Great. I love that. Answer too. Full circle. Bringing it back to Tom McGowan.

[49:57] Jason A. Coombs: Bringing it all the way back. He'll have to listen. I'll have to tell him. He honestly would be a great guest. He had some crazy survival jobs.

[50:03] Mary Mcgowan: He records on the New Jersey boardwalk.

[50:06] Jason A. Coombs: We would love to talk to him. Give him our email, survivaljectsquad at gmail.com.

[50:10] Mary Mcgowan: Give him the email.

[50:11] Jason A. Coombs: Give him the email.

[50:12] Samantha Tuozzolo: Okay. Switching topics quickly. We are gonna play a quick game. Would you rather edition?

[50:20] Mary Mcgowan: Okay.

[50:21] Jason A. Coombs: Okay, I'm ready.

[50:22] Jason A. Coombs: Mary, here's a fun one. Would you rather bartend on Cinco de Mayo or bartend on St. Patrick's Day?

[50:34] Mary Mcgowan: Um depends on the bar, but I'm guessing it's like bartendow on Cinco de Mayo at Havelina or bartend on St. Patrick's Day at a pub. Like is probably the question. I think bartend on Cinco de Mayo just because I like making margaritas.

[50:46] Samantha Tuozzolo: Yeah, I would say the same probably.

[50:48] Jason A. Coombs: Mary, would you rather a? And this is pre-COVID? So yeah.

[50:51] Mary Mcgowan: I would not do any of this right now.

[50:55] Jason A. Coombs: Would you rather a eat off of a customer's plate once a week? Or B eat family meal every meal of every day for the rest of your life.

[51:05] Mary Mcgowan: Eat off the customer's plate once a week. Because I think that's basically what family meal is, anyway.

[51:13] Jason A. Coombs: It is right.

[51:14] Jason A. Coombs: Okay. Would you rather get a higher wage without tips or keep the minimum wage, but tips are the same?

[51:21] Mary Mcgowan: Um tips. I want the tips.

[51:23] Jason A. Coombs: Would you rather rather? Would you rather serve hungover or serve a birthday party of kids having food fights?

[51:32] Mary Mcgowan: Oh, serve hungover 5,000%. Remember what I said about children earlier?

[51:36] Jason A. Coombs: Yeah.

[51:37] Mary Mcgowan: Yes. Easy. That was the easiest of these so far for me.

[51:40] Jason A. Coombs: The easiest.

[51:42] Jason A. Coombs: Do you I would make other servers take tables with children?

[51:45] Jason A. Coombs: Would you rather work on Christmas or work on Thanksgiving?

[51:49] Mary Mcgowan: Um Christmas. Because I feel like Christmas, if you had Christmas Eve in the morning, you've kind of like had Christmas. Whereas Thanksgiving, I feel like I'd be so bitter because you'd get there like 4 p.m. when it's like still happening.

[52:05] Jason A. Coombs: Yeah, that's a great point.

[52:07] Mary Mcgowan: That is a great point. Oh, and when I worked at Starbucks, I'd always like you have to choose between Christmas or Thanksgiving. And I'd always choose Thanksgiving because then you would be we'd close at two. So then I would just like work in the morning.

[52:20] Jason A. Coombs: That's a good point, too.

[52:21] Mary Mcgowan: That's an excellent idea.

[52:23] Jason A. Coombs: Yeah, it's a good point. It's kind of the same thing because you don't want to miss Christmas in the morning, but then like Thanksgiving, everybody's cooking and stuff, so it's like I used to lie and say that I was like out of town for two weeks and on a plane, you know.

[52:36] Mary Mcgowan: Wow, Mary, this was fun, so fun. And look, I was all nervous, and it was such a good time. Did you have a good time?

[52:43] Mary Mcgowan: I did, I had a great time. Mostly just like seeing the two of you.

[52:47] Samantha Tuozzolo: Thank you.

[52:48] Jason A. Coombs: So be such a great guest. Mary, what's coming next for you?

[52:52] Mary Mcgowan: You know, Jason, we're gonna just vibe and hope for the best.

[52:56] Samantha Tuozzolo: I love to buy it.

[52:57] Mary Mcgowan: Um, you know, next, I think I'm like in my next chapter. So I'm gonna stay open to possibilities and see. I don't know, see what, see what sticks.

[53:06] Jason A. Coombs: Hopefully, something.

[53:07] Samantha Tuozzolo: Let's ride that wave, girl.

[53:09] Mary Mcgowan: Ride that wave, baby.

[53:10] Jason A. Coombs: I love the way co-host on survival jobs podcast.

[53:14] Mary Mcgowan: Oh, yes. Right. Obviously.

[53:18] Jason A. Coombs: That's what's gonna happen.

[53:19] Mary Mcgowan: How fun.

[53:20] Jason A. Coombs: And then Robin's gonna be editing all our episodes.

[53:23] Mary Mcgowan: So there you go.

[53:24] Jason A. Coombs: I feel like we're just we're inviting people one by one to hand off responsibilities.

[53:28] Mary Mcgowan: This is like a prank, actually. We're inviting people as guests, but really we're just assigning you guys fantastic jobs.

[53:35] Jason A. Coombs: I'm great at Google Calendar.

[53:36] Mary Mcgowan: So great.

[53:37] Jason A. Coombs: Yes.

[53:38] Mary Mcgowan: I'm so happy. I mean, you got to the link. So example A of how great you are.

[53:43] Jason A. Coombs: What I do all day.

[53:45] Mary Mcgowan: This is your new survival job.

[53:47] Jason A. Coombs: Perfect.

[53:50] Mary Mcgowan: Mary, thanks so much for coming to talk to us. You're a superstar. We love you.

[53:55] Mary Mcgowan: Thank you for having me, you guys. You're the best.

[53:58] Jason A. Coombs: Mary, Mary, you are the best. But can you give a promo shout-out to BD Cards, by the way, and give us a on that?

[54:04] Mary Mcgowan: My goodness, thank you. Yes. Speaking of survival jobs, my super amazing, talented badass roommate Brendolan, who is the best person that I know, um, started her own business during quarantine. Um, she's a visual artist, she's an actress, but she's a very great visual artist and has started a greeting card company called BD Cards. And you can find them on Instagram, BD.cards. And she makes custom cards, she makes holiday cards, stationary, anything you could dream of. Samantha has ordered multiple cards. I can personally vouch these cards are gorgeous.

[54:41] Samantha Tuozzolo: I love that.

[54:42] Mary Mcgowan: One of my coworkers got me this card. This is a podcast, and no one can see it, but I can show both of you. Um when I left ART.

[54:48] Jason A. Coombs: Wow, I love that.

[54:49] Mary Mcgowan: Oh yeah. And how funny that she made it in your apartment.

[54:53] Jason A. Coombs: Yeah, and then she sent it to Massachusetts, and then it got back to my apartment.

[54:57] Mary Mcgowan: But that is so thank you for prompting that, Samantha. Definitely please check that out. We always love a survival job, and also those cards are perfect.

[55:07] Jason A. Coombs: They really are.

[55:08] Mary Mcgowan: Mary, where can people follow you if they want to catch up with you and see all the amazing stuff you're doing?

[55:13] Mary Mcgowan: Oh, sure. Okay, I think I mostly use Instagram. So uh my Instagram is Mary Cynthia McG. And also BD.cards.

[55:26] Samantha Tuozzolo: Yes.

[55:27] Mary Mcgowan: But no, Mary, it was so good to talk to you, and we wish you nothing but the best. And can't wait to be all together again.

[55:34] Jason A. Coombs: Not serving queso.

[55:37] Mary Mcgowan: Yes.

[55:38] Samantha Tuozzolo: Eating case.

[55:39] Mary Mcgowan: Eating case, so you guys jinx.

[55:42] Mary Mcgowan: Strawberry mango margaritas.

[55:44] Jason A. Coombs: Strawberry Georges.

[55:45] Mary Mcgowan: Oh, strawberry Georgia's.

[55:47] Jason A. Coombs: See, I like to habanero white peach, but me too.

[55:50] Mary Mcgowan: That's my favorite.

[55:51] Jason A. Coombs: Too spicy.

[55:52] Mary Mcgowan: With a splash of strawberries.

[55:53] Jason A. Coombs: Excellent.

[55:54] Mary Mcgowan: Okay. Love you, Mayor.

[55:57] Jason A. Coombs: Thank you. This was so fun.

[55:58] Mary Mcgowan: Thank you.

[55:59] Samantha Tuozzolo: Don't forget to like, subscribe, and follow Survival Jobs, a podcast. And check us out on Instagram and Twitter at Survival Jobs Pod and on Facebook at Survival jobs a podcast.