This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:01] Eli Tokash: Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 200 and officially, I guess, 206. I did a bunch of YouTube lives during the week of the Tony Awards, and our episodes kind of got a little out of whack as I was so focused on getting them all on YouTube and doing it exclusively on YouTube to do more YouTube content that I was calling them episodes. And here we are with the podcast episodes kind of getting all jumbled up. So I guess 206 of the podcast episodes. I am your host, Eli Tokash. And as always, we have a very exciting episode for you folks this week. We haven't met here on the podcast in, I believe, two weeks because I posted last podcast of just the Eden Espinosa interview. As I wanted to get that out before the Tony Awards, she was nominated, which is very exciting.

And I had a live episode on YouTube featuring that episode. But I wanted to make sure that that was its own podcast episode as well. And I'm doing that this week with another fabulous episode that I feel like I want to have more love here on the podcast platform as this guest. I've been wanting to have on the podcast for such a long time, literally since I started it, as he was my director in Trevor, the musical where I did it out of town in Glencoe, Illinois at the Writers Theater. And that was the production that eventually kind of led the way to its success here off Broadway and then, of course, on Disney Plus. So but it was my first time, you know, really originating a role and not just like in a reading, but really putting it on its feet and figuring it all out from nothing.

And it was an experience that changed my life forever and taught me so much as a performer and actor that I'm forever grateful for. And then it also got me into, you know, kind of this. Like, I don't know if I would have had this podcast without Trevor because it really got me into just like creating and like creating my own things and more of the creative side of the industry with directing and producing. And it seems like, you know, I kind of do that every week here. And as much as I like feel like I'm not a writer, you know, I write stuff for this and write questions and all of that. So I don't know. I think it kind of led it to this. And so it was just full circle to have our fabulous guests on for this week, which was none other than the Mark Bruni, the Brunster, Broadway's Mark Bruni, as we all like to call him in the Trevor cast.

We have so many nicknames for him because he is the best. So we have a very exciting episode. But perhaps the most exciting thing for this week's episode, because, you know, we don't want to just do the episode that was on YouTube already that you can just go and watch, which, by the way, is more fun because you can go and watch it. And we have a special guest pop in and all of that. So that's fun, as well as all the fabulous YouTube episodes that we did during that week. We had Mark Bruni on. We had Jeremy Jordan. We had Eden Espinosa. We had Joe Serafini and Trent Soyster. We had the drama twins who, if you are listening to this theater podcast, you probably listen to other theater podcasts.

And, you know, they're also a great theater podcast that I thoroughly enjoy. And we gave our Tony predictions. So it's kind of fun to look back on it now, too, by the way, and be like, oh, that was so wrong or oh, yeah, we killed that. It's very fun. So anyways, moving on. But we have so much to talk about because we haven't chatted on the podcast and done like real Broadway news in way too long. So I'm thrilled to do our little theater chat and talk Broadway with all of you. So let's get into it, shall we? I have some very exciting updates personally. So I got to see The Notebook this past week. I saw a couple of shows, I think, since the last time that we've chatted about Broadway news. But this past week, I saw The Notebook.

And like, I don't even know what I can say about it, like I don't know what to say about it, I was literally like. I was at a loss for words, like it was just so good, it was by far the best musical that I've seen this season. And I did see The Outsiders, and this is no knock to The Outsiders because I loved The Outsiders and I love the story of The Outsiders. I've said from day one, I'm like the biggest Outsiders fan. I rarely read books. The Outsiders was maybe the first book that I actually finished and could tell you that I look you in the eyes and tell you that I've read every single page of that book. And that was probably the first time that I ever done that. And that was in seventh grade.

So a huge Outsiders fan, love the movie as well. Watch that after I read the book. And so I loved it. But The Notebook, I hadn't seen the movie. I didn't know enough about it. I didn't really know anything about it. And I just went into this musical blind and was just blown away. First of all, the talent on stage is ridiculous. And that starts at the start of the show with John Cardoza as young Noah, who, you know, we've had on the podcast Take About Family Member, as well as, you know, we had Marianne Plunkett and we had Joy Wood stealing the show. I mean, everyone in the show was just so good. And like I said, I didn't really know much about the show. And I like could fall in love with these characters raw, like not knowing like I could literally go on this journey with them, and that was, I think, I mean, I love going into shows like that.

So I think that that really heightened my experience. And so I'm saying all of this because like if you don't know the movie, that's OK. Like you could still go and see this and become a huge fan. And that also goes with for those of you who have seen the movie, because I went with my girlfriend who saw the movie and is obsessed with the movie, and she loved it just as much. Except she started crying from the second the show started, and I didn't understand why, but that's OK. It was just it was so great. And this story is. It's heartbreaking and it's beautiful and it's lovely, and it's everything that you could ask for in a story. And the way that Marianne Plunkett and Dorian Harewood, who were both nominated for Tony's this season, so deservedly so.

But the way they were able to tell this story and lead this company and lead this story. I can't imagine anyone else doing these roles because these are very, very complicated roles and they rarely leave the stage. And to be doing that every night, eight shows a week is just, you know, as a performer, I feel like I have I look at it from a different perspective and and kind of can appreciate it even more. Just kind of having all those things in the back of my head and not just focusing on the story, even though I am focusing on the story. Don't worry. But it's just it's so good. And Ryan Vasquez and Jordan Tyson, and even like I didn't get to see Andrea Burns, who is a Take About family member, which we love.

She was out that night. But even like Carson Stewart, who plays Johnny and Finn, like everyone, like the the I don't even want to say like the smaller roles, because everyone, it's such an ensemble piece and everyone has their moments of shine to shine that it was just it was beautiful. And everyone connected. And there were the comedic moments and there were the sad moments and there was everything like I can't tell you enough how much I love this musical. And I also thought like the score was like amazing. Like, I don't understand why that didn't get a nomination. I thought, you know, my my day is the Joy Wood song that's in the second act. It's like the 11 o'clock number of the show. That's the one that really.

I don't know, I want to say like is trending now, I guess you can say because it's all over like the tick tocks and that's the one they're really pushing in the advertisements and all that. But there were like three or four other songs that I was like, this could totally be the anthem of this show, like it's that good. And usually shows have just one or two. But of course, they have to have complimenting songs and complimentary like good songs as well. And this I mean, none of if I listen to the cast album, I'm not skipping any of the songs like that's just not what I'm going to do. So I was just absolutely shocked and it just infuriated me even more that we didn't get a My Days performance at the Tonys.

We didn't get more nominations from the Notebook in general. They have a beautiful, beautiful set. And that was completely robbed, as was Great Gatsby's. And I'll go to my grave with that. And I talk about that with none other than Mark Bruni, the director of Great Gatsby on this episode this week. But yeah, I just couldn't understand it. They have a beautiful pool in the Notebook and they have the rain scene and they have all of these things going on where I'm like, what do you mean like this wasn't nominated? This is like it's literally like Hollywood on a Broadway stage. It's like it's the coolest thing I've ever seen. This is like corny as hell, but I'm sorry. You know, I just genuinely loved the show and I'm such a fan of everyone in the show.

And I hope that, you know, we eventually get every single one of them on. I don't know. That's obviously probably not going to happen, but I love the show. And hopefully everyone can go see it. And, you know, I say it every year. You know, there's a show that doesn't get its flowers and there's, you know, the Tony Awards aren't everything. But the way that we keep these shows running is, is if we go and support these shows and we go buy a ticket or we go literally even like stream the music or like their social media posts, like just engage in the show and share, you know, all of that. So hopefully that we we get that because a lot of times there's shows that get snubbed and they're really good shows and they just fail because, you know, the Tonys didn't feature them.

And sometimes that that kind of has a huge say in ticket sales. I mean, we look at Heart of Rock and Roll, which. I this is part of the Broadway news, I guess. So let's just get into it. We look at Heart of Rock and Roll and we, you know, I predicted as soon as the nominations came out, I was like, OK, this means this show's closing, this show's closing and here we go. The Heart of Rock and Roll is closing. The Who's Tommy show is closing. Heart of Rock and Roll literally gave the world five days notice. Fortunately, I did reach out to some of the cast members. They said that they knew prior to that tricky that, you know, audiences didn't get more knowledge or more of an advanced notice. I don't know why, because it seems like it's a good tactic to sell tickets and it's like, hey, if you want to come see us, you got to do it now because you're not going to see us.

So like five days notice was hard, especially for me. Like I wanted to see that show. And I wasn't able to because in those five days I found I was closing. I was literally in New York for one day and wasn't able to like see it. So it was pretty tricky. So sad, sad to hear that it's closing. And of course, the Who's Tommy show, which I saw, which I actually it was interesting. I enjoyed it. I was entertained. Heavy, heavy, heavy. And not like notebook heavy where it's like, oh, my God, that's it's heartbreaking. And it's such a beautiful story at the same time. It's just like, whoa. And like, wow, heavy. So FYI, fair warning. OK, so yeah. Anyways, but love it. And very exciting. I love the notebook.

Huge fan. Everyone should go see it. Hoping to do something special with them and the cast soon. I don't know if it's going to happen, but know that hopefully we're going to get some notebook content coming. And that's literally out of me just trying so hard because I genuinely love the show. And that's what happens when I love a show. I won't stop talking about it, especially on here. A theater podcast. Come on, guys. All right. Moving on. Tony thoughts.

[14:07] Eli Tokash: Y'all, I have some thoughts. I just don't, um, it's hard for me to, like, talk about the Tonys, right? Especially on here, where it's so, um, just out in the open and everything. And I don't want to criticize anything about the Tony Awards. I thought that it was good. I thought it was fun. I thought the speeches shined this year. I was thrilled that Marilee, I had no problems with the winners or anything like that. I just had high expectations, I guess. Y'all, this is Broadway's biggest night of the year. This Tony Awards season, or this Broadway season, I should say, had the biggest stars arguably ever on Broadway. We had, um, it goes from, you know, Jim Parsons to Steve Carell. We've got, uh, you know, you name it, it's even Grant Gustin.

You know, like, we have all of these Hollywood stars, big names, big draws, um, you know, on Broadway's biggest night where we can talk about Broadway, and everyone has, Broadway's has everyone's attention, even the people that, you know, don't always like Broadway. And we have Ariana DeBose, who's literally turned into a huge star hosting it. Like, you know, it's just, I just expected so much more, and I wish I didn't have such high expectations, um, where I didn't feel like it was the best Tony Awards that, like, maybe I thought, just with all the star power and everything. I mean, heck, Steve Carell wasn't even nominated. Like, I get it, but, like, why? Like, at the same time, because we're, like, trying to sell Broadway at the same time.

Like, just add in one more, you know, person to the nomination, like, to the nominees. I don't, I don't know. I don't know how that works, but I'm talking out of my booty right now. But, you know, I just, um, the Tonys, you know, it wasn't it for me this year. I thought the performances were solid. I didn't even, I didn't think the shows really did the best songs of the show. I don't know if that went into my opinion of the night. I don't know. I just, I don't know. But, thankfully, a week later, or I guess, is it two weeks later, maybe? I had the fortune of covering the Jimmy Awards this past Monday. And, I mean, this year, it just seems like, you know, who knows? Maybe the Jimmys are the new Tonys, y'all.

The Jimmy Awards are, like, no joke. And, like, we have Andrew Barth Feldman on, and we have Antonio Cipriano, and, you know, all these former Jimmy, Justin Cooley, these former Jimmy Awards nominees, and winners, and finalists, and all of that. And, we talk about the Jimmys, but, like, every year, it just becomes more and more of an, of a draw for Broadway, and a more special night. Like, we come on here, and we talk about them with those guests, and they tell us, you know, it was an experience I'll never forget, and blah, blah, blah. And, like, it didn't really hit me until, like, this year of, like, really what that does, and really how talented that is, and those, like, that pool of talent is, and how rigorous the process is, and the training that is received during that time.

Like, it's just unbelievable, and it's revolutionizing the theater education, I want to say, like, for the next generation of Broadway. And, it's awesome, and I was actually there in collaboration with Young Entertainment Magazine. So, that was fun. I wasn't just doing it for Take a Bow. And, you know, we got to talk to all these incredible people, like, people that I've idolized, and they're here to watch the jimmies, and see, and scope out the next generation of talent. Like, it really is becoming a highly anticipated night, and a huge night in the Broadway industry. So, shout out to the jimmies, first of all. Shout out to Van Kaplan, Pittsburgh CLO, Keisha, everyone involved. It was so awesome.

Maybe I'll share some of those interviews if I'm allowed to. I'll have to get that clearance from Young Entertainment Mag. But, we had an incredible time, and everyone was so kind, and so excited to get up and running. And, the fact that they're streaming it on YouTube, like, literally, you can go watch the entire show on YouTube, which is awesome. I just can't get over the talent, like, truly. I want to shout out the winners of the Jimmy Awards. Shout out to Damson Chawla Jr. and Gretchen Shope for winning the 2024 Jimmy Awards. Damson, Jesus, y'all. He is no joke. And, he is going to be up here on Broadway in no time. And, he's from Dallas, Texas. You know, I tried to get these guys on the podcast for this week, actually, you know, with it just literally happening and being so relevant.

But, as I mentioned, it's just such a rigorous time, and such a roller coaster of a week for them. And, coming to New York and kind of getting slapped in the face with, you know, just the energy up here, and the pace of it all. It's just craziness. So, they both were like, hey man, we need a week, and get back to us. We'll do a little rain check. So, hopefully, we'll have them on here very soon. But, shout out to them. And, you know what? All of these people that, all of these performers that were involved in the Jimmy Awards this year, they were just so many incredible performers, that it was truly a toss-up. You know, people in the YouTube chat, comments, and Twitter, and theater Twitter, and all that.

They were like, everyone had different, you know, votes, and everything. It seemed like the general consensus was Damson, for sure, for the men. But, that was just because he gave some incredible performances, and like, diverse performances. You know, he was Seymour in one hand, and then he was something very serious. You know, he was just giving so much. And, hey, shout out to Damson, by the way. Because, actually, not just Damson. In the Jimmy Awards, in general, it was nice to see the baritones representing this year. There were a lot more, you know, middle register songs slash lower songs sang this year. And, you know, no one was, like, up there, you know, screaming their face off, you know.

And, it's interesting to see, because it's hard at that age. But, especially, like, Puberty's Fresh, and all of that. Like, it could be hit or miss, you know. Still figuring it out. But, to the guys that did it, it's just a testament to how incredible and talented they are. I want to give out a couple more shout outs, because, you know, Peter Desert was one of my favorites of the night, as well. He gave some hilarious performances, you know, character performances, you know. Which, you know, I love my character performers. And, you know, there were some other ones. I want to say, I want to pull them up, just so I don't get them wrong. Mackenzie Crawford, Marley Soleil, Mia Cabrera, Davila, Isaiah Bastin from New York, shout out.

Kai Sachin, just some incredible, unbelievable performances. We'll get some of them on, for sure, within the next two weeks, probably. Everyone's, like, traveling back home now, or enjoying the final days of New York, you know. It's a crazy time for them, as it just happened Monday. But, Jimmy Awards, it's just so incredible to see the promising future of Broadway, and how we could literally follow them from right here. I mean, it's crazy to look back and see the social media now, getting into the Jimmy Awards and being like, oh, I was Renee, rap fan from the beginning, since the Jimmys. And I was an Andrew Barth Feldman stan since the Jimmys. And, like, all these things, well, now we can literally watch it from our eyes, you know.

We don't have to now see them, and when they turn to stardom, you know, we can follow their journey through and through. So, it's very cool and very exciting. And a lot of these folks from this season will certainly be hearing more of in the very, very, very near future. So, very exciting for that. And shout out to the Jimmy Awards for killing it in the arts education category, and doing such great things for the future of Broadway. All right, some real Broadway news, not just my rambling and my little, you know, personal thoughts and updates. So, Merrily We Roll Along is being filmed for us all, thank God. Because, A, the tickets, especially after the Tony Awards, are bonkers. So, like, who can go see that and afford that?

That's craziness. Secondly, it's just an incredible production that deserves to last a lifetime. It is so unbelievable what they've done. It's so deserving of the best revival category of a musical. At the Tony Awards this year, thrilled that that won. It's crazy, just thinking back and looking back at how it was such a flop originally, and how it's such a hit, you know, this season, and such an incredible little show that, like, you know, people are saying, you can't miss this show. And before, it was like, the show is terrible. Like, you know, like, I don't know how it flopped the first time after just experiencing this production, and being like, oh my God, no, this is so incredible. But it's cool to see Merrily getting the love and attention it deserves.

It's fun because Merrily is also being, like, filmed for the next, like, 30 years with, like, Ben Platt and Beanie Feldstein. Obviously, won't be too much competition because we still have, like, 20-25 years till that's out. So good thing that we get this for the time being to hold us over until then. But yeah, very exciting stuff. And can't wait for that. It's funny because, you know, I was talking to a couple of the Merrily cast members, especially in lead up to the Tony Awards. And they were like, it's like, kind of like known by everyone, but they didn't know if they could tell. And then we started seeing these videos of Jonathan and Daniel Radcliffe running away from media members when they were asking them these things.

And so it's great that we can finally all talk about it. The secret's out. Everyone has to know that there's giant camera trucks outside their theater with, like, you know, quiet because we're filming. It's great. And very exciting times for Merrily. We roll along. I want to shout out Pack NYC because their version of Cats, the Jellicle Ball, looks absolutely incredible. It looks bonkers. It looks fun. It looks wild. I'm very excited. I want to see it. And I'm not even a Cats fan. I don't know. I don't know what it is about Cats for me. It's never really done it for me. But, you know, this looks like a whole, like, pride parade for the rest of the year and not just in the month of June, which is very exciting.

And I can't imagine what it's been like to open this show during Pride Month. It's got to be so freaking cool and crazy. And I actually want to see it before Pride Month ends because I feel like it's just going to be, like, that extra wild. But it looks amazing. And shout out to everyone and this reimagined version of these shows. It's cool. I like that, these reimagined versions of the show, more than the adaptations to movie to musical, because it seems like the adaptation to movie to musical is kind of just like a paper thin or a paper copy of the work. Whereas these reimagined musicals, you know, like, it seems like Diane Paulus kind of started that whole train with Pippin and making it a circus. You know, then we have Marilee come around and how they've made this story make sense and beautiful and loved nationwide.

[28:15] Eli Tokash: And then you have like Cabaret at the Kit Kat Clubs, another example. So it's like, it's cool to see those and see how like, a take on a piece of work can be different and super different and change people's opinions on the work and make them think about the piece in a way they never have before. That is very interesting to me. As opposed to like, oh, let's just take the movie and put it on a stage. And we'll add some songs in. And sometimes the songs are going to be really good. Sometimes they may not hit. And that's not a dig to anything in particular. I'm just saying, you know, that that's the that's my consensus. All right, moving on. We're getting salty here. Y'all, clearly, as you can tell, I haven't been to therapy aka this, my microphone for a couple weeks.

I've missed you guys. Okay, moving on. Oh, I was so sad to hear this. Okay, so Grant Gustin is going to leave Broadway. He's leaving Water for Elephants on September 1. So luckily, we have a full month to go see him. I saw Water for Elephants. I actually really enjoyed it. I was not expecting to enjoy it. I had no idea what it was about. I really liked it. I thought he was great. I think he's definitely worth seeing. He's just, he's, I think you can say like he's one of the most underrated actors that we have in our industry. I know that he's known for like Flash and it's hard for like people once they're like known for something to like escape that world. But like he can do anything. And like he showed that in his show like in Flash, like he was doing everything.

And I just really, I love him as a performer and an actor and as someone who was fortunate enough to cover the opening night and then like get to meet him and talk to him and he juggled for me like, you know, it was, it was, I'm a huge fan. So everyone go see it. And he, by the way, he's leaving the show because he's having baby number two. So it's not like he's like, you know, just done with Broadway or anything like that. Or maybe, you know, I don't know with because like some people get salty after the Tony's if they're not nominated and they're like a star and they're like, oh, you know, screw this. I wanted to hopefully get some award attention or whatever like that. I wanted to add, you know, an accolade to my arsenal or whatever it may be.

But this was kind of from the beginning. And hey, like, I'm good. I got to go back to LA. I had to go have another child. So shout out to Greg Gustin and his family and hope everything goes well with the birth of child. And everyone go see Water for Elephants before he leaves on September 1. It'll be interesting to see what the show does. It didn't really have much success at the Tony Awards. And I don't always hear a lot of buzz about it being talked about, you know, like around town. I don't know if it will. If it's doing well, I should probably look at the grosses and everything. But yeah, it'll be interesting to see what the show does after he leaves. Will they replace? Will they close shortly after?

I don't know. It'll be interesting. But I hope the show succeeds. I love the show. Yeah. Anyways, moving on. Tommy, I already mentioned that Tommy closes July 21. Heart of Rock and Roll closed on June 23 last Sunday. I mentioned, you know, I saw I saw Tommy. I kind of figured it was going to close post Tony Awards. I don't know. It's a niche. It's a niche show, I think. I think it can draw people in. But I think the people that love it and the word of mouth sort of thing is very neat and interesting to see how they do in that category. And obviously, you know, it wasn't enough to continue to succeed and go on a long run. But, you know, they still did over 100 performances. You know, they did do pretty well.

They did get a Best Revival nomination. So, you know, pretty good. And if you're a fan of the music, the music's insane. Music, some of the best music we have on Broadway. And no surprise to who did the music. So, you know, it's great. You know, go see it if you want, if you like that stuff and you like that music or whatever. OK, moving on, another like kind of whatever. Oh, y'all, I'm so like, this is terrible. OK, so Aaron Tveit and Jojo are returning to Moulin Rouge starting July 23rd. I was super excited the first time they did this, and now it just seems like it's just inevitable. And like literally, like when they left, I was like, all right, they'll be back. You know, you don't have to go rush to see them, you know, like, I don't know.

Same with like Derek and Courtney. I'm like, yeah, I know they're leaving. They'll probably be back. I don't know. Like, it's crazy to think. But, you know, they start performances July 23rd, just doing my journalistic duty, I guess. But I am excited. I mean, Aaron Tveit, anytime he's on Broadway, it's good for Broadway. He's great. He's talented. He's pretty. People like going to see him. So that's exciting. OK, moving on. Exciting, more exciting casting notice. Christian Borle is coming back to Broadway. He is going to star in Tammy Faye on Broadway this fall. Y'all, this was like a mess, this whole Tammy Faye debacle. I don't know if I like reported it, like the whole thing that went down.

I don't even think I've talked to you guys since then. So I got the chance to talk to Andrew Reynolds about Tammy Faye. And he was very excited about it. And I feel like now he's kind of getting a little backlash and it's like, for why? There was a video that came out where he announced himself that he will no longer be a part of the Tammy Faye musical, the production on Broadway. He unfortunately, he and the team doing the producers, you know, doing Tammy Faye, couldn't reach an agreement as far as, you know, whatever is concerned, just they couldn't reach an agreement in order for him to do the show. And they had a bit they had a lot of back and forth. And I guess it just kind of like fell through.

And like I said, like, I had a scheduled thing with him to like talk about Tammy Faye, and just was not able to do anything with it or, or really like, it was kind of awkward. And that was he really said, like, he came out and was like, you know, crazy on them to like, announce it with nothing signed. Like I didn't sign anything. And they just said, Hey, he's coming back to Broadway, you know, again this season and was like, what? Okay, but like, let's get this done then. And then just like nothing came of it. So um, yeah, it's a messy situation. And it's a difficult situation. And, you know, it kind of like, doesn't make either side look great. But hey, press is press. And I guess, all press is good press.

And hey, it's got me talking about it. And it's got me also very excited about it. And you know, now we have Christian Borle back on Broadway, who, I mean, both Andrew Reynolds, Christian Borle, I mean, they're like the top of the top. And it's exciting for like, if you told me Christian Borle is going to be in Tammy Faye, like, I'm not gonna be mad about that. If you tell me Andrew Reynolds is going to be in Tammy Faye, like, I'm not gonna be mad about it. Both get me to like, want to go see the show, I would say, and I'm sure a lot of people feel the same. Yeah, so that's that. That's all I have to say about that. This is a, it's a difficult conversation, and it could go down many avenues, but it's okay.

We're here. And yeah, that's it. So last piece of news before I turn it over to the interview, because I've been talking for you two all way too long, and I'm going into rambling mode. So it was very excitingly announced that Boop, the Betty Boop the Musical, will be opening on Broadway in April. Once again, adding to a very, I think, exciting season, to be completely honest. And a lot of stars, again, a lot of new works, again, which we kind of all figured would happen with COVID and everything. Yeah, even though this is a bit of an adaptation, you know, it's still new, and it'll be interesting to see how they do this. And yeah, Betty Boop the Musical. It's also interesting, by the way, like, when I saw this announcement, there were a couple cast members that, like, came into my head.

And it's just so interesting, because with these new works, and these new works now, you know, with the new Broadway model, it seems that, you know, you kind of start out of town, and then due to the success out of town, or depending, I guess, on the success of out of town, you know, you may bring it to Broadway, maybe you have to continue to work on it, whatever it is. And now all of these cast, you know, like, they go on these breaks, and they get these Broadway shows, and then some of them happen to be in the same show. So now the show that they're in is gonna lose all of these cast members at once, because they're probably gonna go to get another credit on their resume and be in another Broadway show, like they already did the show that they're in.

So why not add another trick to the trade and continue to grow your network and connections? I don't know. I just think it's funny to look at. And, you know, Betty Boop, there's a lot of that cast from out of town is currently on Broadway. And I like watching, you know, what's gonna happen? Are they gonna continue to be in the show? Are they gonna recast? You know, like, fun. I don't know. It's just me being, it's like that. I don't know. I just love the cast and the personnel and the cast announcements. I think that's why I do so many cast announcements here. Anyways. Sorry, I've rambled enough. That's all the Broadway news I have for you, folks. There was a lot. So thanks for bearing with me.

And without further ado, I think it's time to send it over to one of the greatest directors on Broadway right now and of our generations. I think he will eventually go down as one after, you know, learning from the best of the best, which we will talk about. And so if you want to become a director, this is a great episode for you. If you want to become a performer, also a great episode for you. I always say that when I have these, I guess, like creative people, like the creative teams on the podcast. I just like to reiterate that because there's a lot that we can learn if we really learn and pay attention and really kind of depict what's being said, because there's a lot of insightfulness, especially with Mark.

He's just a brilliant mind and a brilliant creator. And I'm thrilled to have him on. So without further ado, let's turn it over to the current director of The Great Gatsby on Broadway right now, starring Jeremy Jordan, Eva Noblezada, Sam Pauly, Noah J. Ricketts, and everyone under the sun. Here is Mark Bruni. Mark Bruni, curtain up.

[41:36] Eli Tokash: This week's guest has been a dream guest of mine for the past 204 episodes, and it is a dream to say that the day has finally come. Our guest this week for the 205th episode of Take a Bow is one of my favorite directors in the business. You may be familiar with his work in Beautiful, the Carole King musical, which he actually, his work earned the show a Tony nomination for Best Musical. And now, currently, he is doing Double Duty as the director of The Great Gatsby over at the Broadway Theater, and Bye Bye Birdie over in D.C. at the Kennedy Center. So it is my honor to welcome to Take a Bow for episode 205, none other than Broadway's Mark.

[42:23] Marc Bruni: Hi, Eli. It's great to see you. I can't believe you've made 204 of these.

[42:31] Eli Tokash: Yeah, this is crazy. This is 205. And what a perfect guest for 205, huh? I've had some...

[42:38] Marc Bruni: That's a great number. I like it.

[42:40] Eli Tokash: Yeah, perfect. I had Matthew Morrison on for 200. So like, I like the big numbers to be like exciting guests, you know, and of course...

[42:48] Marc Bruni: I'm glad I'm a five multiple. They seem really important, the multiples of five.

[42:54] Eli Tokash: To me, they're most important, if you ask me. Marc Bruni, like this is it. This is happening. I feel like I wanted to get you on forever.

[43:02] Marc Bruni: Well, this is a real honor to be here. And I'm so happy to be able to do this. And, you know, getting to meet you on Trevor was incredible. And I will always remember the day that you walked in the room and auditioned for Trevor. And we all looked at each other and went, okay, there he is.

[43:19] Eli Tokash: Crazy. I don't know. So okay, this was I was saving this for a little bit down in the episode, but we'll just hop into it. Because I've been told multiple times that like, when I walked into the room for Trevor, people were like, no, like, this is not gonna work. But I heard that you were the one that was advocating for it to work. What like, what did you see? Like what? I don't know. What was that process like in casting Trevor?

[43:52] Marc Bruni: Well, I think anytime in any audition, there's going to be difference of opinion and getting finding consensus is one of the big parts of directing is getting to have your whole creative team get on board. And casting is so critical because I think it's like 80% of directing and they're there. If you don't get it right, then there's no amount of directing that's going to get you to a performance out of an actor that you fundamentally miscast. But, you know, but you, you are such a, such an intuitive actor. And so, and, you know, in the multiple Broadway shows that you had done, even at that age, it was it was clear that that there was a level of acting that was required by the show, as well as the singing demands, as well as the dancing demands.

And you had you had all of the things. But that show is so specific to a very, very narrow, as you well know, like narrow moment in time, where your voice hasn't changed. And also, you are old enough that this sophisticated story can land in a way that has some layers and has some, you know, ability to deliver some something behind the eyes, which is not something that everybody who's a young actor has. So but you did, right?

[45:19] Eli Tokash: Well, it's interesting, because I don't know, maybe this is me in like, in my head reflecting, maybe this is how everyone felt. It felt like I didn't really fully get Trevor until like a week before we started performances, like, you know, with the way he stood and like the way he walks, like, I learned so much about acting that like, I never even thought about even like doing a Broadway show, you know, all the little isms and like, the Josh Prince of it all as it all.

[45:53] Marc Bruni: Yes, yes. Yes. Well, you need your you need Josh Prince on any project. And he'll he's, he's a wonderful movement curator and also energy a cheerleader for the room.

[46:01] Eli Tokash: Yeah, it seems like it literally did not click until like, all you needed to say was, look, watch him just watch how he stands. Watch how he walks. Yeah. And like, repeat it like, and then it was like, Oh, my God, like, I think there was that there's an element of there's an element of outside and inside. But But I think that the thing that that makes that made your performance wonderful was that you inherently had an ability to make it feel truthful. And, and to and to make those words feel truthful, and to, to kind of mean what you say. And that that seems like a simple thing to just say mean what you say. But there's there's only a certain number of people that have that gift to be able to truly be captivating at doing that.

And be right, you know, just just to just to simply talk and listen, which seems seems like it's like the one on one. But at the same time, it's, it's a, it's an important thing. And it's something that not everybody knows how to do really well. Right?

[47:11] Eli Tokash: Well, I appreciate it. And honestly, God, like I said, like, Trevor was the first time. Well, Trevor was also the first time that I ever originated something, you know, like, I was always able to like, well, and the material and the material was changing, too. So it was a moving target in that way. I mean, you know, we had new pages, as you remember, coming in, like on a daily basis, and to to be able to process all of that you needed to do just to get the show up, but then also to be ready to be facile about dealing with changes and dealing with choreography. And, yeah, you know, it was, it was a it was an intense, it was an intense time in Glencoe.

[47:50] Marc Bruni: It was the greatest time of my life. Honestly, God, it was by far the most fun I had with all a bunch of kids, you know, not just like, yeah, or three, you know, yeah, it was great. And then but like, they weren't that was it, you know, like they we felt like we were that was the thing that's the thing that's really cool about that show is that normally, if you're a kid, and you know this far better than I but but as a as a young child actor, you're probably one of like a couple in a company that is primarily about adults and that to have the adults in Trevor are kind of the supporting characters. And so you are shouldering the burden of of actually leading the show, which is something that is very unusual unless you're unless you're doing it, you know, a show in a school setting or in an educational setting, but to do it in a professional setting is, is very unusual.

And, but I think I'll really kind of empowering for the whole cast to be able to, you know, have Did you feel a sense of responsibility about that? I mean, did that feel to that? Or were you were you were just like, it's another show. And it's like, at that point, you know?

[49:02] Eli Tokash: Yeah, I mean, like, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna do my thing.

[49:08] Marc Bruni: Exactly. Like, I don't want to, like, toot my own horn or anything. But like, I always feel like, I don't know, I kind of like to take the charge in like, whatever I do.

[49:19] Eli Tokash: Yeah.

[49:19] Marc Bruni: Like, you know, and kind of be like, absolutely. 205 episodes of a podcast podcast.

[49:26] Eli Tokash: Well, there you go. Keep going.

[49:27] Marc Bruni: Yeah. Well, I mean, I think a lot of that, like attributes to like my siblings and like having someone to look up to. And like, one day, like, hopefully, like, I've always wanted a younger sibling. And so one day, hopefully, I can, like, be the guy like that people look up to, you know, like, I don't know if it comes from that. Sure. And Neverland was the same thing. Like Peter was on the stage, the whole show. And sure, there was Matthew Morrison show and Laura, Michelle Kelly, who was like, really leading the way. But like, out of the kids, like, I always felt like I wanted to, you know, be the example. And so like, jumping into Trevor, it didn't really feel like any sort of difference or anything like that. There were times that, you know, with the new material and all of that, like, there were times of, whoa, like, what am I gonna do? Like, I'm stressing out. But like, it was great.

[50:28] Marc Bruni: And well, you did a good job of hiding that I don't remember there being too many of you freaking out.

[50:34] Eli Tokash: It ended very quickly. When I started to allow myself to do other versions, if that's just what was coming out that day. You know, if I was doing the old version, yeah, we'll get another crack at it.

[50:40] Marc Bruni: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my god. I remember there. Yeah, there were so many like, lyric changes that that were thrown at you at the last minute. And it was like, oh, that was yesterday's lyrics. But that's fine. All you can do is sorry, guys. Sorry, guys.

[50:49] Eli Tokash: I know. And I think it took like messing up to then start to like be like, okay, that wasn't the end of the world. And no one's yelling at me. So it's okay. But just try to do it. Right. You know, try your best.

[51:07] Marc Bruni: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So again, that stems from you guys that you guys at the top?

[51:12] Eli Tokash: Well, I think I think the fact that the fact that you were able to take that on, and that you were that we felt like, even if it wasn't going to immediately happen in one day that that you were able, we wouldn't have we wouldn't have made changes at all, if we didn't think that, you know, you could sort of handle it in a in a long term way. So we were, we were, we were very lucky to have you do it.

[51:36] Marc Bruni: Yeah, well, I want to kind of get into all of that and just directing and the behind the scenes to it in general, because, you know, obviously, you know, take a bow and everything like you see who we interview, we have a lot of, you know, performers on and we've had a couple of directors before, you know, Diane Paulus and Sammy Canald. And now we have you.

[52:00] Eli Tokash: Wonderful, fancy people.

[52:01] Marc Bruni: Hey, they're the best. I always say like, I owe my career to Diane and Mark Bruni. So this is like my treat to have you on. So, you know, in going back to just creating a show, and we talked we were talking about Trevor, yeah, you want to use that as an example, or if you want to talk about Gatsby, or even Bye Bye Birdie, you know, like, how do you find that balance of just creating something and in collaborating with so many cooks in the kitchen, whether it's a writer, whether it's the producer, financially, whether it's the performer, how much of that is a balancing act and kind of being like, you take the reins here? And how do you kind of choose to divide that, I guess?

[52:51] Marc Bruni: Yeah, it's it. Well, that's one of the great joys of doing it is being able to collaborate with people who are smarter than you and who have better ideas than you. And as a as a director, you are you don't have to be the you just have to be the arbiter of what's going to end up on the stage, but you don't have to be the one to have all the ideas. And so I think it's wonderful to be able to have one will have collaborators of designers and writers and and to create a space that allows them to have a voice and to try and then your job is just to get everybody telling the same story and understanding what it is that you're going for. And then within that, there's there's always parameters that can give can provide for opportunities for creativity.

And I find that I'm I'm very not very good at doing things when there's a big blank canvas like that. The sort of, you know, Sunday in the park of it all of the of the white white page or canvas is very daunting. But once there's once there's a couple of once once once you put a couple of parameters on the on the experience, then it's easier to be be creative within within the parameters of of a creative space that has been sort of designed in a in a slightly more like once you have a, you know, a general idea for a set design, for example, then it's easier to have ideas about transitions or ideas about how something might work within the general, you know, sort of scope of of what it what it's going to be rather than this with Gatsby, for example, when they wrote it, and I got read the script, and there's two cars and a pool and, you know, and and sort of figuring out those big things of like, okay, oh, my God, how are we going to do that?

And then, and then, so that it becomes like a game of successive approximations of, okay, so now we've got an idea for how that how we're going to deal with these big things. And then you can kind of whittle it down into then finding out how you're how you're going to solve the more the easier the easier things are always like the more emotional things, because those are things that are, you can you can kind of you and the writer can can negotiate and figure out and I, I, when I was a kid, I was an actor up until college. And, and, and so I, I do part of what I like about directing is that I do feel like in the pre production process that I get to play all the parts. Yeah. And, and, and kind of think about the story through the lens of the various different characters and how they are feeling and then, you know, imagining what they might be thinking or what they might be feeling and how that affects the other, the storytelling of that moment.

And, and that's something I certainly got from Jerry Zaks. I got started my career, assisting Jerry and Jerry very much started as an actor. And he, I remember we had a lot of time spent in his office where he would read the script, all the parts out loud at his desk and, and just hearing the rhythm of the way that he thought about it and the way that he would, has sort of created a process for me about, about how I read a script. And sometimes I will read it out loud to myself, like a crazy person in my, but, but it's, but it's helpful to, to just hear the music of it and the rhythm of it and, and to, and to, to help to, if I can sort of act my way through it, then sometimes that's helpful to

[56:30] Eli Tokash: Welcome back to Take A Bow! Today, we have an incredible guest joining us, Marc Bruni, who has directed some amazing productions on Broadway.

[57:00] Marc Bruni: Thanks for having me, Eli! I'm excited to be here and share some stories.

[57:30] Eli Tokash: So, Marc, can you tell us about your journey into directing? What inspired you to pursue this path?

[58:00] Marc Bruni: Absolutely! I grew up loving theater, and I was always fascinated by how a story could come to life on stage. I started out as an actor, but I found my passion in directing when I realized I loved shaping the entire production.

[58:30] Eli Tokash: That’s really interesting! What was your first big directing opportunity?

[59:00] Marc Bruni: My first big break was directing a production of "The 25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee." It was such a fun show, and it really helped me find my voice as a director.

[59:30] Eli Tokash: That sounds like a blast! What do you think is the most challenging part of directing?

[1:00:00] Marc Bruni: I think the most challenging part is balancing the vision you have for the show with the ideas and talents of the cast and crew. Collaboration is key, but it can be tough to navigate sometimes.

[1:00:30] Eli Tokash: Collaboration is definitely important. How do you foster that environment in your rehearsals?

[1:01:00] Marc Bruni: I always encourage open communication. I want everyone to feel comfortable sharing their ideas and thoughts. It’s about creating a safe space where creativity can thrive.

[1:01:02] Eli Tokash: That’s a great approach! Speaking of creativity, what’s one of your favorite moments from a production you’ve directed?

[1:01:04] Marc Bruni: One of my favorite moments was during a performance of "Beautiful: The Carole King Musical." There was a scene where the audience was so engaged that you could feel the energy in the room. It was magical!

[1:01:06] Eli Tokash: That sounds incredible! How do you keep that energy alive during a long run?

[1:01:08] Marc Bruni: It’s all about keeping the cast motivated and reminding them of the impact their performances have on the audience. I also like to mix things up a bit to keep it fresh.

[1:01:38] Eli Tokash: That’s a smart strategy! What advice would you give to young directors just starting out?

[1:02:08] Marc Bruni: My advice would be to watch as many shows as you can, both good and bad. Learn from them, and don’t be afraid to take risks. Trust your instincts and always keep learning.

[1:02:28] Eli Tokash: Great advice! What’s next for you? Any upcoming projects you’re excited about?

[1:02:48] Marc Bruni: I’m currently working on a new musical that I can’t wait to share with everyone. It’s still in the early stages, but I think it has a lot of potential.

[1:03:08] Eli Tokash: That sounds exciting! We’ll definitely be on the lookout for that.

[1:03:36] Marc Bruni: Thank you! I appreciate that.

[1:04:04] Eli Tokash: Before we wrap up, is there anything else you’d like to share with our listeners?

[1:04:24] Marc Bruni: Just to keep pursuing your passions and never give up. The journey can be tough, but it’s so rewarding in the end.

[1:04:44] Eli Tokash: Wise words! Thank you so much for joining us today, Marc. It’s been a pleasure talking with you.

[1:05:04] Marc Bruni: Thank you for having me, Eli!

[1:05:24] Eli Tokash: And thank you to our listeners for tuning in to this episode of Take A Bow. We’ll see you next time!

[1:05:52] ♪ Musical number ♪

[1:06:12] Eli Tokash: That was amazing!

[1:06:40] Marc Bruni: I’m glad you enjoyed it!

[1:07:10] Eli Tokash: Until next time, keep shining bright!

[1:07:38] Marc Bruni: Bye, everyone!

[1:08:04] ♪ Musical number ♪

[1:08:32] Eli Tokash: Thanks for listening!

[1:09:00] Marc Bruni: Take care!

[1:09:28] ♪ Musical number ♪

[1:09:56] Eli Tokash: See you soon!

[1:10:24] ♪ Musical number ♪

[1:11:08] Marc Bruni: One of the drafts of Gatsby early on, that was just a scene, and there were a couple of lines where he, you know, came across as just kind of neurotic and obsessed and a little bit unhinged, and Nathan and Jason said, you know what, this should be a song, and they wrote that song, that all, that sort of, you know, was around the idea of him and his anxiety prior to that tea. But that's a great example of something where something in the book inspires a song.

[1:11:47] Unknown speaker: Yeah.

[1:11:47] Unknown speaker: Can I just say before I bounce out of here, because I just came to crash the party for two seconds, but I want to say hello, both of you guys. Miss you both so much.

[1:11:56] Unknown speaker: Oh, we love you.

[1:11:57] Unknown speaker: Salisha, Salisha, do you remember the day that we saw Diana Ross?

[1:12:05] Unknown speaker: It is for us.

[1:12:06] Unknown speaker: That was the day she passed away.

[1:12:10] Unknown speaker: That was the day you were deceased.

[1:12:12] Unknown speaker: That was the day I was deceased, sitting in the back row and being like, I think I just want to get closer to the stage. And she's like, please come on the stage.

[1:12:21] Unknown speaker: You got on the stage.

[1:12:24] Unknown speaker: Yeah.

[1:12:25] Unknown speaker: And then you probably already talked about this on the podcast, but yeah, you went on the stage, and then you essentially accepted a joint award, where you took her hand and...

[1:12:39] Unknown speaker: And then she was like, so how are you going to get off of my stage now?

[1:12:45] Unknown speaker: Carry me off the stage.

[1:12:47] Unknown speaker: But before I go, I just want to say, Eli, I love you so much. I love you.

[1:12:52] Eli Tokash: Love you.

[1:12:52] Unknown speaker: I love you so, so much. Thank you, probably God. Just thinking about when I made my Broadway debut, and I was like, he's not going to be able to get into this bar. And you walked in and everyone was like, Eli! He's 14. How does everyone know him?

[1:13:04] Unknown speaker: He's the mayor of Broadway.

[1:13:09] Eli Tokash: Absolutely not.

[1:13:11] Unknown speaker: Yes, I think you might be.

[1:13:14] Eli Tokash: I'll take it.

[1:13:16] Unknown speaker: And Mark, I just want to congratulate you. The Great Gatsby is truly, it's so beautiful. So I know you already said no pun intended, but it really is. The set is...

[1:13:23] Marc Bruni: The set is incredible. Paul Depew, the set designer, just won the Drama Desk Award last night for his set for Gatsby. The floor, the huge windows, it's just so... The music is... Jason freaking nailed the music. It is so romantic. The chemistry between Jeremy Jordan and Eva, I'm butchering her name, Noblezada. It is just so incredible.

[1:13:54] Unknown speaker: I'm butchering it as well.

[1:13:56] Marc Bruni: It's just such a swoon. And the dancing, the energy, it feels... Dom Kelly, what a choreographer. Everything. The tap dancing?

[1:14:01] Unknown speaker: Tap dancing. Real tap.

[1:14:07] Marc Bruni: I could watch this.

[1:14:09] Unknown speaker: That is no joke tap dancing.

[1:14:12] Marc Bruni: No joke. They are phenomenal. All of it is just really well done. And I just want to say congratulations.

[1:14:18] Unknown speaker: Thanks, Alicia.

[1:14:21] Unknown speaker: Great to see you.

[1:14:23] Eli Tokash: Going off of that, everyone's been asking what show to see. And this is even before I actually saw it on Broadway. This was from my take in Paper Mill. It was like, it feels like Broadway. This is the definition of a Broadway show. It's big. It's loud in the best way possible. Not in a shove it down your throat type of way.

[1:14:44] Marc Bruni: It does feel like Broadway.

[1:14:46] Unknown speaker: Yeah.

[1:14:46] Unknown speaker: Like it's hot.

[1:14:47] Unknown speaker: Some like it hot.

[1:14:50] Marc Bruni: We were really lucky to have a producer who was interested in providing the resources to be able to do something on a grand scale. And he wanted a Gatsby. He did not want the minimalist Gatsby. So we were able to have 18 musicians in the pit and to have a set that has many tracks of automation. And we have, not spoiler alert, a car on stage. And there's some pyro.

[1:15:25] Marc Bruni: These things, I feel like I will never get a show that is able to deliver this kind of a spectacle. But I think that in the spectacle, these writers really did the work and had a strong vision for how they wanted to depict this story. And so I think that the flip side of that opulence and the sort of hollowness of the American dream that is at the heart of that. I think the intention was for that to also come through that it is not missing that element of it as well.

[1:16:14] Unknown speaker: Yeah.

[1:16:15] Unknown speaker: Salicia, you got to go.

[1:16:16] Unknown speaker: Yeah.

[1:16:18] Unknown speaker: Bye.

[1:16:18] Unknown speaker: Bye, Salicia. Thanks for having us.

[1:16:20] Unknown speaker: You too.

[1:16:20] Unknown speaker: Thanks, Salicia. Such a treat.

[1:16:23] Unknown speaker: Oh, my God.

[1:16:23] Eli Tokash: That was such a nice surprise.

[1:16:25] Marc Bruni: Oh, yes. I know. I love her. I was like, Mark's coming on the show. And she was like, what? And I was like, yeah, you want to say hi? And she was like, yes. I was like, okay. Glad she was able to hop on. Well, I want to continue. You mentioned the car, the pyro, all of these added elements that obviously the producers are willing to sign off and be like, okay, yeah, we'll do it. Does that kind of excite you and make you just want to go even further? Or does it make you be like, oh, my God, we have all these things to figure out, all these pieces to juggle?

[1:17:02] Marc Bruni: Yeah. Well, I mean, in some ways, when you do that, it makes it easier because you go, well, how are we going to do the car? Well, we'll just have a car. So that makes it, then you don't have to want to figure it out. It's like, oh, we're just gonna have the car. Okay, great. And actually, the car in Gatsby was the thing that I was most worried about when we got to tech. And it ended up being the thing that I had to worry about the least because it just worked and it did everything it needed to do. And it kind of fit in the wing and made the turn and the turning radius was great. And the things like that, that you worry about being a tech nightmare. And that actually ended up being fine. But I think, no, the stuff that I like is the sort of toy box of being able to have some fun things to fly in and track on and sort of play with all of those elements. Those are fun because I love making transitions. Musicals are largely about transitions and about trying...

[1:18:26] Eli Tokash: Oh, no. Bernie? Uh-oh. Technical difficulties. Let's see if we can get him back here real quick.

[1:18:28] Unknown speaker: Oh, no. It's okay. We appear to be having some technical difficulties at this second. We'll get him right back on here in a sec. Let's see if we bring him back. Oh, not yet. I don't know if he can hear me still, but Mark, if you can hear me, why don't you try to refresh your browser? And we'll see how that works.

[1:18:59] Eli Tokash: Okay. I think he's refreshing. This has been a blast. Salisha, shout out to Salisha Thomas, Broadway Salisha Thomas, by the way. You can see her in Beautiful. She was in Trevor, which is obviously the Mark Rooney, me connection, as well as obviously Beautiful, which Mark Rooney directed. And she was on the national tour, which is where she originally met Mark. And then she made her Broadway debut in Mark Rooney's Broadway directing debut. So very exciting that we were able to have both of them on here at the same time, just to treat the two of them together. Oh, it looks like Mark Rooney's back.

[1:19:43] Marc Bruni: Hello. Oh, wait, you're muted. Can you do you have it?

[1:19:54] Marc Bruni: Well, um, yeah, anyway, I don't know what I'm sorry. I was. I don't know what I was in the middle of. But I'm so good. I wanted to actually because you mentioned you love transitions. And like musicals are such a big part of the transitions.

[1:20:05] Eli Tokash: Yeah.

[1:20:11] Marc Bruni: Or transitions are a big part of the musicals. Yeah, I there's a part of Great Gatsby that like gives me chills, and it happens twice. And you probably already know what I'm going to say, because I mentioned the transitions. It's how you open and close the show the exact same way with a wonderful transition. And I'm not even going to like mention what's going on. But it's beautiful. And it's Gatsby looking off into the green light.

[1:20:26] Eli Tokash: Yeah. So is that something that you were right away, as soon as you saw the scenic design that you were like, Okay, I want to end it the same way? Is that something that's written?

[1:20:43] Marc Bruni: Yeah, that that idea that was it was not written in the script. And it was something that we were looking for a bookend and figuring out a way that we could thematically sort of start and finish in the same place. And, and also, I think it was it was interesting, because when we did it at Paper Mill, it started the same way. But of course, Gatsby was revealed and then sang the opening number. Right. And so, so then when we revised the show in between Paper Mill and Broadway and made Nick Carraway more of the narrator and gave him the opening number, it was questionable whether and there was some debate over whether we should keep the opening in the same way and be able to keep this bookend and whether it would be appropriate to also, you know, it's a star entrance, people give him applause, and then he just disappears.

And I see now I already did the spoiler. But you're good. But, but it's, but, but I also think it's fun to be able to do something that feels a little bit like a magic trick. And, you know, it's, it's some directing is largely about surprise and trying to keep keep the surprises moving and keeping the rate of new ideas at a clip. And so, so in the case of Gatsby, I think it was about thematically, starting and ending in the same place and, and making the show which is very much about asking the question of whether the reaching is enough if if the attainment is potentially not possible. Whether, whether the whether, you know, having, having tried or having, you know, what is what is the what is the value in that. And so I think that that was an interest that was one of the interesting explorations that the writers wanted to bring to it. And that we thought we should bookend with the green light.

[1:22:42] Eli Tokash: Yeah, I love it. And literally, like I mentioned, I the first time it happened, like my job was like, what, like, how did that happen? But I'm glad that worked for you.

[1:22:53] Marc Bruni: Oh, yeah. And then at the end, it ended the same way. And like, I started like crying. I was like, that's beautiful. Because it's just like, you know, this is the end of our story, you know, and we're gonna do it again tomorrow. It's the exact same way.

[1:23:08] Marc Bruni: Well, it's sort of it does, to a certain extent, speak to the timelessness of the story and the way that this 100 year old novel has still maintained captured the imagination of America. This novel that wasn't actually very successful the first time around, and only when it was distributed to the soldiers in World War Two. Did it did it become, you know, as popular and so it's in, there are certainly lessons to be, to be mined, or to be learned from, from looking at that story and looking at the class divide and, and and the way that America treats the haves and have nots and, and when whether class mobility is possible. That, unfortunately, seems still very, very relevant and very much of the moment.

[1:24:02] Eli Tokash: Absolutely. Well, I mean, I think everybody can kind of relate to, you know, longing for for someone or something, you know, and going to great lengths.

[1:24:13] Marc Bruni: Sure. And wanting to want to find the past and to Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[1:24:19] Eli Tokash: And so like, it's fascinating, the way that you guys did it and captured it is so beautiful, the way that you're performing it. Yeah, no, it's, it's so good. I'm obsessed. I have to ask, though, so like, and this is pun intended. So when you are like, you do finally get that green light, right? And you're going to Broadway. And after, of course, your paper mill run.

[1:24:45] Marc Bruni: How early does your process run? Because I've always kind of looked at like directors as like an opening night is almost their closing night.

[1:24:53] Eli Tokash: Oh, absolutely. It's the day of obsolescence. It's the day you go from being a pretty important person in the room to being totally not important at all.

[1:25:03] Marc Bruni: Well, I mean, hey, that's okay, because it's still your thing.

[1:25:08] Eli Tokash: Yeah, no, I mean, you, you, you obviously, you know, were instrumental in making all of these decisions. But in a sense, you're giving it over to the company because it's their show now and they're the ones that are having to tell the story every night. And hopefully you've created the scaffolding around it to be able to allow it to sustain itself and to let them have the work in the bank that they can rely on every night to be able to go out there and make it fresh and make it feel like the first time and to continue to tell the story with an understanding of what the underpinnings of it are and the choices that were made and that everybody can feel good about the thing that we're all making together that we all made together. And now they're making on a nightly basis. And we're coming to see from time to time as the crew.

[1:26:00] Marc Bruni: Yeah. So like, what is what is a director's run in a show? Like, are you starting months before years? I mean, obviously.

[1:26:09] Eli Tokash: Well, yeah. I mean, in terms of, I mean, in terms of like pre-production on a show, like in the case of like Trevor or Gatsby and Gatsby, well, I'll just say Gatsby because that's the most recent, but we started during the pandemic. We started during the pandemic. And then we we had, I think, three readings and a workshop. So and periodically after each one of those, we met, we talked about what we liked, what we thought needed to be improved. The writers went off and they worked and worked and worked. And then there's a constant Google doc that was being updated daily that I, you know, would chime in on and they would chime in on and we would go back and forth. And then we'd do another reading and then get another set of information that would then fuel the next rewrite.

And they're very fast. So they just keep on working and they would keep going. And then and then once you and then once you get the green light for a production, then suddenly you have to make all of these design decisions and the design decisions need to be made months in advance. So you have to, the paint dries quickly on those because you kind of need to decide what the set looks like and what the costumes look like months ahead of being in even the first rehearsal. So you can't, you can't wait till you get into rehearsals to make all those decisions. So you kind of have to make those decisions essentially in a vacuum or with the, you know, in collaboration with your designers, certainly, but there with a script that's a moving target, it's tricky because you need to make sure that you're designing something that is facile enough to be able to handle whatever the writers are going to come up with over the course of the next three months.

Because although the script that you started with when you started the design process is one thing, it, you know, very much may change three months from now. And so you want to leave enough space to be able to, and hopefully enough budget to be able to account for those things that need to be supported in the new writing.

[1:28:07] Eli Tokash: Fascinating. It's just a whole juggling act. You should be like a professional juggler.

[1:28:12] Marc Bruni: Yeah. There's a lot of juggling, but yeah, it's juggling and a little bit of personality management.

[1:28:21] Eli Tokash: I love it all. And here you are, you know, big Broadway director now.

[1:28:29] Marc Bruni: Well, I still sort of pinch myself. It's really, I feel very, very lucky. I'm an extraordinarily privileged guy to be able to do something that I really love. And I don't ever lose track of that opportunity that I've been given. And so, you know, I try to create a warm environment for everybody that's associated with the things I work on.

[1:28:56] Eli Tokash: No one does it better than you, truly. It's the environment.

[1:28:59] Marc Bruni: Well, that's not true, but thanks.

[1:29:02] Eli Tokash: It's so good. It's so good. And just being in the room with you, you know, at one point in my career, you know, it was such a gift and like something that I cherish forever. And like I said, like I've never learned.

[1:29:16] Marc Bruni: Likewise, Eli, you're, you know, seriously, it was a, it was a, it was a very, very special experience working on that show. And that initial, that was the first time that we'd really staged it. We'd done a bunch of readings of Trevor, but to figure it out for the first time on stage is a daunting and very special experience. And, you know, you created the model that was very much relied upon as we continued to work on the show and ultimately, you know, the off-Broadway production, you know, your, your, your DNA was very much on that show. My greatest career achievement would be when I was in class and all of a sudden I get like a Facebook message from Mark Bruni. Hey, do you, what do we do with the pill bottle? Like, wait, like you were like texting me like random things about like Trevor. And I was like, cool, man, like four years ago, I think.

[1:30:20] Marc Bruni: I know, you don't remember either.

[1:30:21] Eli Tokash: You know, I know. I'm like, I don't quite know. But it was, it was great. Like, it felt like I got to be a small part of it still because, you know, obviously that shows a lot to me. But it's, it's so fun. Before we go, I do want to share a little, a little slideshow.

[1:30:43] Marc Bruni: Oh my God. Oh my God.

[1:30:45] Eli Tokash: Look at this. This is the first time we've had each other. This is tech.

[1:30:49] Marc Bruni: Just being in a room with you.

[1:30:52] Eli Tokash: Oh, I love that.

[1:30:57] Marc Bruni: Random.

[1:31:02] Eli Tokash: Oh yeah. There's the writer's theater swag.

[1:31:04] Marc Bruni: Brutal. Yes. And then we had to go to a pool party. I had my swim.

[1:31:08] Eli Tokash: Oh nice. Oh my God. Eli, look at you.

[1:31:11] Marc Bruni: Isn't this crazy?

[1:31:13] Eli Tokash: Oh my God. Oh, the Jeff awards. Oh my God. Right.

[1:31:17] Marc Bruni: And now here we are today.

[1:31:20] Eli Tokash: Yeah. I know.

[1:31:21] Marc Bruni: There was a big dance party afterwards at the, I remember in the lobby.

[1:31:26] Eli Tokash: Yes. We had such a wonderful time in Glent Hill, Illinois is at the writer's theater. Obviously a special group of people and forever grateful for you and, and to be, to have had the chance to work with you.

[1:31:39] Marc Bruni: That was a really, really special experience that will be totally unforgettable for me too. And I, I'm great, grateful to you for all you brought to the, to the show and to allowing for us to have a future for it. You know, I mean, you, that, that production really engendered a lot of interest in, in the material and in its viability as, as a musical. And it would never have happened in New York if, if that hadn't gone as well as it did. And, and a lot of that was due to your critical role and central performance in it. So.

[1:32:22] Eli Tokash: Thank you, Morg.

[1:32:23] Marc Bruni: Very sweet.

[1:32:24] Eli Tokash: Take a bow.

[1:32:26] Marc Bruni: Yeah. You, I mean, Hey, you have so much to take a bow for it. It's crazy. Obviously double duty right now. So maybe we'll give you two.

[1:32:34] Eli Tokash: Um, but I mean, we didn't even get to like half of your career. So, uh, you know, one day when, when life is a little less hectic, I'd love to have you back on and we'll chat some more.

[1:32:45] Marc Bruni: Uh, but Mark, this has been a dream. I appreciate you so much for, for coming on here with me and, and talking about.

[1:32:52] Marc Bruni: This is wonderful, Eli. This was really great. I've, I am actually on my way to having lunch with Josh Prince, so I will tell him hello.

[1:33:00] Eli Tokash: No way. Oh my God. Stop. Tell him I say hello. Love you both so much. And, uh, yeah. Best, best of luck moving forward. Obviously, uh, everyone go see Great Gatsby happening at the Broadway theater. Yes. It's literally called the Broadway theater. Um, and, uh, everyone go check out Bye Bye Birdie. If you're in DC.

[1:33:21] Marc Bruni: I know you got seven more chances. It closes Sunday.

[1:33:25] Eli Tokash: Oh my God. With some incredible people, by the way, Krista Rodriguez, uh, Christian Borle, Richard Kine, Ephraim Sykes.

[1:33:32] Marc Bruni: Oh my God. The list goes on and on. Shout out Luke Manekis, who was a pippin boy.

[1:33:37] Eli Tokash: Luke Manekis, who was, yes. And was in, uh, Trevor was a Trevor.

[1:33:42] Marc Bruni: Oh, yes. Did a, did a reading of Trevor.

[1:33:45] Eli Tokash: Yes. Oh my God. Wait, that's so funny. Um, yeah, but great cast. Everyone definitely go check that out. Um, and, uh, Mark, I can't thank you enough. Thank you so much. You have so much to take about for us.

[1:33:55] Marc Bruni: Oh, great. Thanks a lot, man.

[1:33:59] Eli Tokash: Take about Mark Bruni. What an absolute joy to finally have the Brunster on the podcast. Uh, just an absolute joy. And it was so great to reconnect and, and get to chat with him about, um, you know, his career and he's just doing so much right now. He's doing, he's always doing stuff at the Kennedy center. He's always doing these pop-up, uh, you know, like star, like the shows that like have the stars where it's like only like a week long. Um, I don't even want to call them pop-ups because like a Kennedy center production is not a pop-up. Um, it's like no joke and rigorous and insane. Um, and you know, you really have to be a really good director to be able to pull all of those personalities together in such a short amount of time to tell a story and a full fledged stage production nonetheless.

Um, so shout out to Mark Bruni doing the most as always crushing it as always. And, uh, we can't wait to see what's next for him as always. Uh, but you can go see his work right now on Broadway in the great Gatsby. Uh, you can talk, you can see what he means about like the whole transitions and, and looking at all of that stuff. And, and, you know, after being in, in his show, in one of his shows, um, you, you kind of see his mark, I guess, on, on, on a show and what his tendencies are. And, uh, you know, that obviously helps me cause I didn't realize that while I was in it. Um, because I obviously saw beautiful, uh, which he directed and, uh, and that was after I did Trevor and I didn't really notice the tendencies there, but now, um, you know, a couple of years later as I, I grow up and reflect and all of that, um, I could totally tell the tendencies and that now helps me in the future to be like, Oh, this director likes it like this.

And he looks for these things and, and he’ll, he’ll, you know, he's looking out for transitions and like fun things like that, you know, and, and how did you, how can I, um, entertain that and kind of deliver that, um, and be able to assist in delivering that. And how can I do that in such a short amount of time in an audition room, um, where we can collaborate on those types of things that he really looks for. Um, so yeah, it's just very cool to see and, uh, hopefully you all enjoyed it and learned something or gained something out of this, whether you do want to be a performer, a director, whatever. We have so much more to talk about, Mark Bruni and I, that I can't wait to have him back on.

Um, and hopefully we do, uh, sometime in the near future. All right. That's all I have for you folks this week. It's been a long episode. Um, I cut it here, uh, Friday, Friday episode. Thank you all for listening. Um, and thank you all for, um, you know, supporting us as always. And, and Hey, if you want to listen, watch this episode on YouTube, you can go do that. Um, today, June 28th is actually my sister's birthday. Uh, everyone, if you so feel like doing so spam her, uh, whatever social media, you know, if you have her number text or whatever, um, and wish her happy birthday. Uh, obviously she's a big part of the Take About family and, um, we definitely would not be here without her today.

Um, so shout out to Tessie and a happy birthday and, uh, thank you all for listening. I hope you all have a great week and we'll be back next week with another very exciting episode. Uh, we'll have some performers on and, uh, who knows, maybe it's a Jimmy award performer. Maybe it's a Broadway performer. We will see nonetheless in five years down the line, we will, both of those will be the same sentence and they will just be a Broadway performer. Um, all right, folks, thank you so much for listening to episode two Oh six. And, uh, like I said, Hey, go follow us on the socials at take about on Broadway or, uh, sorry, take about on B way and, uh, check us out on the YouTubes. We want to do more, uh, of that content.

And if you guys are listening and following along and, and engaging in that content, then, uh, it'll only motivate us and allow us to, to do that. So, uh, thank you as always. And I hope you all have a great week.

[1:38:41] Eli Tokash: All right. Bye everyone. Have a great week.