This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Macon Prickett: Good evening, everyone. Welcome to the fabulous 54 Below. Before we get started this evening, just a polite reminder, please take this moment to silence your cell phones and also there is no flash photography, please. Welcome to the 54 Below Podcast. I'm Macon Prickett, the club's assistant programming director. Our guest today is 15-year-old podcaster, blogger, producer, and Broadway super fan. He is the host of the popular podcast Backstage Babble, where he interviews Broadway favorites about their prolific careers. Charles Kirsch, welcome to the podcast.

[0:36] Charles Kirsch: Thank you so much for having me. Great to meet you, Macon.

[0:39] Macon Prickett: Of course, of course. We are gonna have so much fun today. Thank you for joining us. Um, I just want to start from the very beginning. It's a very good place to start, as you and I both know. You started Backstage Babble several years ago. How old were you when this began?

[0:56] Charles Kirsch: Yes, I was 12 years old when this began, just about to turn 13, um, to quote another musical. During the pandemic, I think it would have been about July or August of 2020 when I first had the idea. I'd been listening to Broadway podcasts for a long time before that, especially one called Behind the Curtain, which is hosted by Rob Schneider, who's a 54 Below producer as well. So it was podcasts like that that inspired me to sort of believe that I could start my own and that it would be fun to start my own. And during the pandemic seemed like the right time to do it because everyone would have more time to talk and all that. So it was a very lucky kind of perfect storm there.

[1:40] Macon Prickett: Yeah, so it was just kind of one of your pandemic hobbies. You know, we all had those pandemic hobbies, but something about your pandemic hobby really kind of caught on and caught a lot of attention. And I mean, I have looked at, I've listened to a lot of the recent episodes and like taking a look at your guests, and like this is really impressive. You've done some really incredible work just over a few short years.

[2:05] Charles Kirsch: Thank you. Yes, I felt very lucky to be able to talk to the people that I've talked to and that it's able to keep going as it is.

[2:12] Macon Prickett: Yeah, no, no, of course. I'm just so curious. You know, you started this, you had this idea for this podcast. You started when you were 12 years old. What was it like going through the asks, you know, getting asking these creatives in our industry if they would do the podcast when they heard that you were a 12-year-old? You know, I'm sure there were a lot of opinions on, oh, this 12-year-old kid's asking me to do a podcast. Like, but now look at you know where you started, where you are now. Like, tell me a little bit about the initial reaction from some of these people. I'm so curious to know.

[2:47] Charles Kirsch: Yes, it's definitely been a process of sort of growth in that way. And so, with starting out and finding guests and all that, my first guest was actually my grandfather, who doesn't have a lot of theater sort of connection, but he worked on like the 42nd Street redevelopment project, and he has a few things like that that made it interesting. And then the other reason I was able to start is pre-pandemic when I was in, I think third or fourth grade, I had written a book report for school on a book by Peter Felicia, who's a theater author, and I had managed to get it to him through email and had ended up meeting him in person and sort of becoming friends with him. And he had introduced me already to a few of his friends who are either other historians or actors.

And so it was through him and through that that I sort of had the first basis for starting this podcast and finding people to talk to. And then the other thing was I have a family friend named Beowulf Borrett, who's a Broadway set designer who won Tony and all that. And he connected me with one of my first big guests, which was Joel Gray. It was, I think, episode number 10, where I got to interview Joel Gray through him. And once I was able to have that guest and say that I had interviewed Joel Gray on my podcast, it was much easier to kind of establish credibility with asking other people. And the process of finding is it's honestly kind of different every time. Sometimes it comes through Peter or Beowulf, or just someone who I've interviewed saying, I have a friend that I think you might want to interview.

Sometimes I'll outright ask someone if I know they know someone who I would want to talk to. And now at this stage, I've sort of gotten to go through agents and publicists and managers who before it was kind of harder to get to them because they, like you said, a 12 or 13-year-old, they don't really know if that's going to be something they want to put their client in. But now that it's been 150 something episodes, it's been easier to get them to agree. And that's been a big source of guests as well.

[4:53] Macon Prickett: You know, that's incredible. It's really, you know, inspiring. I was a young theater kid just like yourself, and I'm thinking back to that time in my life and thinking, there's no way I could have put together a podcast and had all this inspiration to ask all these people. Like, it's really, it's kind of inspiring as someone who's been listening to several episodes here recently and really kind of getting a feel of what it is you do and how you're able to connect to these guests is inspiring. So congratulations on the success of that. That's really wonderful.

[5:28] Charles Kirsch: Thank you! I am really interested to know a little bit about your theater background. You know, you spoke about how your first guest was your grandfather and how he does have experience in the theater. So if you come from sort of this theater-loving family, I'm interested to know where that began for you. Like, what was your first Broadway show, your introduction to Broadway? Where did that begin in your life?

[5:56] Charles Kirsch: Yes, yeah, well, I'm very lucky to have a family who does love theater and all forms of entertainment. They're not really involved, which I think is kind of lucky in its own way because I think that would add some pressure if they were involved in theater. But they've been very supportive and introduced me to theater basically in the first place. The first Broadway show I ever actually saw was Annie, the revival of Annie, but it wasn't till I saw the revival of On the Town, which was like two or three years later, that I really, really got interested. That was the thing that sort of captured my attention and was very magical for me to see and learning especially that that show came from the 1940s and what is called kind of the golden age of Broadway. It inspired me to learn more about that older era of shows and performers, and that's definitely been part of the guiding basis for the podcast and who I interview.

[6:26] Macon Prickett: Yeah, no, that production of On the Town was spectacular. I was lucky enough to see it. It was really kind of life-changing, especially for any lover of that golden age of musical theater because those are some of my favorite shows. And seeing it done with that massive orchestra and that huge cast and the sets, it was that was a really, really special production.

[7:11] Charles Kirsch: Yes, it was incredible. And I've been lucky to interview a few people who have worked on it since then. I talked to Josh Burgas, who did the choreography, and Michael Rupert, who was in it. And yeah, and it was very exciting for me to meet both of them since they've been my heroes from being part of...

[7:21] Macon Prickett: Did you share with them that it was the show that really got you hooked to this business?

[7:35] Charles Kirsch: Yes, I did. And I know they were glad to hear it, and it made sense to them because it was such a great revival.

[7:40] Macon Prickett: Oh yeah. It's funny that your first actual Broadway show was Annie, though, because I feel like Annie is sort of the gateway drug to all theater kids. It's either Annie or Cats, you know, one or the other kind of draws you in from the very beginning, and then you're like, you're hooked, you're stuck forever in this love of show bows.

[7:58] Charles Kirsch: Absolutely. Annie is actually, I have a lot of kind of connections to Annie because it was the first Broadway show I ever saw. I've done, I think, two productions of it at a summer camp and at The Y, where I do some local theater, once as Daddy Warbucks, once as Franklin D. Roosevelt. So both of those were fun. And then more recently, I actually wrote a chapter in this book called 50 Key Stage Musicals that was about Annie, and I got to kind of dive deeper into researching the show. So Annie sort of weaves, I think, throughout my life in a lot of ways.

[8:36] Macon Prickett: That is very interesting. It's such a good, it's such a perfect musical, really. I'm, what are your, this is so like on the spot, but like give us a fun fact about Annie. What's your favorite Annie story?

[8:49] Charles Kirsch: Ooh, my favorite Annie story. That's a hard question. Well, I think... Hmm. I think one of the most interesting stories is that story that happened with the 1997 revival where they had this reality TV show to cast the next Annie, and they cast a girl named Joanna Puccitti, and then she got, I think, sick or something like that, and they ended up replacing her with another Annie, even though she had been the rightful winner of this contest. And in fact, that's an interesting kind of parallel because in the original production of Corsette, Up at Good Speed, they replaced the original girl playing Annie with Andrea McArdle, who had been playing a different role at the time. So the story of Annie is all about replacements, I guess.

[9:35] Macon Prickett: There's some drama with that Annie.

[9:36] Charles Kirsch: Yes.

[9:37] Macon Prickett: Oh, that's so funny. We've had Andrea McArdle on our stage several times, and she's such a treat. So we love hearing all of her Annie stories as well. It's completely fascinating because it was such a specific time in musical theater history, and now we've had so many hit musicals starring children that have just taken over, you know, taken over the whole world of showbiz. And so it's fascinating that all of that really began with Annie.

[10:04] Charles Kirsch: Absolutely, yeah. I've seen Andrea McArdle at 54 Below. I saw the show she did for the anniversary of Annie, and it was very exciting. That was very special, yeah.

[10:13] Macon Prickett: For any Annie lover, that was the perfect show to be at.

[10:19] Charles Kirsch: Yes.

[10:20] Macon Prickett: That's awesome. Well, Backstage Babble, let's go back into it. You have done over a hundred and fifty episodes, which is a feat on its own. Um, and you've had guests from, you know, Carol Burnett. I mean, which like is mind-blowing because Carol Burnett is like one of the, I mean, the biggest legends in the industry in the world, who is thankfully still with us and still working and still creating. And tell us how you're like, did you get nervous? Like, how do you feel about interviewing people such as, you know, Carol Burnett and Faith Prince and Mark Shaman and Donna McKechnie? Like, give us a little bit about information about your process, like leading up to those interviews and what it's like to talk to these people who are just in a whole class of their own.

[11:09] Charles Kirsch: Yeah, I mean, I still get very nervous before almost every interview. I got nervous before this one. And um, I try to do as much research as I can to be prepared for the interviews. I often write kind of write out way too many questions in advance that I never am gonna end up asking all those questions. But it's good for my kind of thought process because it puts all of their credits sort of into my mind. And so when I talk to them, I'm able to have a sense of the kind of like sweep of their career, which helps a lot. And yeah, it is very nerve-wracking. I think, especially at the beginning with every guest, I would have a little panic attack before every episode. And luckily that's gotten a little better by now.

I'm a little more used to it now. But also, I think you kind of have to be a little nervous before every interview because I think if you just go into it like it's just the next thing you're doing that day, it won't be as exciting. Because if it's exciting for you, which it always is for me, I think it's exciting to listen to.

[12:10] Macon Prickett: No, and it really comes across in your interviews, you know, when you're talking to these people, you, there is a level of fandom that is exciting and but super respectful also. And I can imagine that these legends, such as Carol Burnett and, you know, Donna McKechnie are also just so happy to see someone so young who has this passion for theater, who has this passion for knowledge, interview them and genuinely care. You know, you're not doing this for extra credit for a school assignment. Like, no, you're like, this is your thing, and yes, you've created this very successful podcast. And these two live shows that you've had at 54 Below already with Backstage Babble, and the one coming up that we are thrilled. We're gonna get into that later. We're gonna talk all about that.

[12:59] Charles Kirsch: Yes.

[12:59] Macon Prickett: Um, with all of these guests that you've interviewed, though, you know, I know you had some real storytellers on there, you know. We love Leroy Reims, and I did listen to the episodes with Leroy. And I'm wondering what are your favorite, what are some of your like favorite stories you've heard that you did not know anything about, or give us like some fun facts about some of these guests that maybe we don't even know.

[13:25] Charles Kirsch: Yeah, I've got lots of favorite stories. Almost every episode produces a new great story that I didn't know. Um, well, if you heard the one with Leroy Reims, you heard me when my voice was much higher when I was much younger, my voice much higher. Um, one of my favorite stories that I always say was Chuck Cooper, the Tony-winning actor, told me about when he was in Getting Away with Murder, which was the only play by Steven Sondheim that was on Broadway and wasn't as successful as some of Sondheim's musicals, but still made it to Broadway. That there's a scene where John Rubinstein, who played the murderer in that show, has to go around and murder like eight people, and he's supposed to shoot them all with a gun.

[14:07] Charles Kirsch: But the night or one night that this was happening, the sound effect wasn't on top of it, and so the gunshot didn't go off. So John Rundstein had to run around and strangle the eight different people on every side of the stage. And that's one of my favorite things to kind of imagine. There are also some great stories about people forgetting lines and people missing their cues and all of that. I remember I was just the most recent episode I put out was with Leland Palmer, who was in the Pippin concert of 54, I know. And she told this story about how she was waiting for her co-star in Dames at Sea to come on from the wings. And while she was kind of waiting for him to come on stage, she could see him in the wings talking to other people backstage and missing his cue.

So she said she eventually called him on kind of quietly, like her character would with his character's name. And then eventually she just yelled it at the top of her lungs. And she said the audience laughed and they knew what was going on, but it got him to come on. So it would have been worth it. But yeah, there are all kinds of beats, all kinds of great stories. I'm trying to think of one from Carol Burnett. Well, one from hers that I found fun was she was talking about doing the Annie movie and how she was a little nervous about sort of finding the right character for Miss Hannigan and finding the right kind of motivations and all that. And she went up to the director and asked him, how should I approach this role? And he said, just cavort dear. So I think that's a great story from that one.

[15:42] Macon Prickett: Oh, absolutely. It it's insane to even think that Carol Burnett would have would question how to say Mrs. Hannigan because we know that to be the almost the definitive, you know, obviously like on screen version of that role. Like, I can't imagine anyone doing better than Carol Burnett in that role.

[16:01] Charles Kirsch: Yeah. Absolutely. That's wild. You also, so one of my very favorite musicals is Follies. And I your the episode where you, you know, kind of did a f the Follies deep dive was just was wonderful, very well done. Um for these shows that maybe didn't have as long a run as they originally deserved, or shows that you know definitely 13, 14, 15 year olds are not, you know, bopping to every day. How exactly do you do you did you get into those shows, you know, other than just doing like your research and like because obviously you haven't you didn't you weren't there, you didn't see that original production. So, as far as like your process of finding out as much information as you can about shows like that and speaking to, you know, original cast members and people who were there, like tell us a little bit about what it's like to to put together those like puzzle pieces and get that information that you weren't previously aware of.

[17:01] Charles Kirsch: Yeah, it's always a very interesting process with each individual guest. I mean, one of the big ways that it happens is that I mentioned I know Peter Felicia earlier, and he had a friend who sadly passed away, and this friend had a really large collection of cast albums, like kind of every album you could imagine. And Peter was nice enough to think of me as someone who might enjoy having a lot of those albums. So I have a very large collection now of CDs from musicals that weren't as successful as they should have been, and of course, successful ones. So that's a big way to kind of piece things together. Another one is books. I have a lot of theater books, and I love reading them, especially the ones that sort of cover a wider scope, like the books by Ethan Morton or by Stephen Suskin, or I have a few books that are kind of just big coffee table books with a bunch of shows and pictures and anecdotes.

So all of those things are always very helpful. And then on a more kind of concrete level of interview to interview, there are two sites that are lesser known, I think. One's called About the Artists, and one is called Overture, like Overture but without the two E's. And they both have a very, very complete list of credits for anyone you might imagine. I know there are sites that have just the Broadway shows someone's done, but these sites have things like off-Broadway and even cabarets and regional productions. So all of that is very useful to me in kind of doing the research and getting a clear picture.

[18:30] Macon Prickett: Well, you are you're you're educating me because I did not know about either of those websites, and I'm going to make sure I look them up right now because that's you know, that database of information is so important for all of us in this industry, especially for you know the younger people who are just starting out in show biz or starting their careers, you know, it's also up to us to kind of preserve the history of absolute industry. And that's something that, you know, is so important to me, and so many of the people who I work with at 54 Below, and seeing that it's also something that's so important with you is really uh it makes me happy. It makes me excited for the future because we we have to know the history in order to move forward into the future.

[19:13] Charles Kirsch: Yeah, and I always love meeting any other young person who's interested in that history.

[19:19] Macon Prickett: Yes, me too. It is a shame that those two websites don't get more kind of attention because I do think they're really great resources.

[19:27] Charles Kirsch: Absolutely. Well, and you now you're spreading the word. Now I know, and I'm gonna spread the word. And you know, that's how that's how these things happen. That's that's awesome. So thank you for that.

[19:36] Macon Prickett: Yes. I'm definitely going to to dive in and do some do some research. All right. I think this is the perfect time for a little break. Um, we're gonna be right back with Charles Kirsch right after a few quick messages.

[19:53] Macon Prickett: And we are back with Charles Kirsch, part two with Charles. Okay, let's let's get into the backstage babble live of it all. Okay, you've produced these two wildly successful live shows at 54 Below. Where did that begin? Where did the process begin? I mean, you've you've had these the podcast episodes, they've been successful. How did you take the podcast and put it on our stage? Go.

[20:21] Charles Kirsch: Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, it's been such a dream come true for me to be able to be at 54 Below. And a lot of that comes from the fact that before the pandemic, I came to 54 Below a lot and was lucky enough to see a lot of shows here. And especially for someone who's interested in the history of some of those underappreciated musicals, seeing things then like the Nick and Nora concert and the concert of Woman of the Year, and uh, I'm trying to think uh a Broadway musical, the Charles Strauss flop and all of those musicals here was such a gift, and I always loved the space. It's such a nice, like elegant while intimate, and it's just the perfect place to go, really. And so doing a live show here was really dream come true.

And to be quite honest, it was something I never even imagined that I would do. I hadn't even thought that bringing it to the live format would be something that will be possible, and certainly not at a venue as as great as this. But the reason why it happened was after the pandemic, there was a show here celebrating the 10th anniversary. It was the one with 10 years of musical theater history at 54 Below. And it was produced by Rob Schneider and Michael Levine was involved too. And I had known them both quite well through my podcast at that point. And they were nice enough to invite me to come to the rehearsal for it on the day of because I already had a ticket and they were like, why don't you come beforehand and sort of see how it gets done?

And it was a lot of people that I interviewed in the concert. So I got a chance to meet them in person too. And it was after that show when I got to meet Jennifer Ashley Tepper in person for the first time, who I'd also had on my podcast prior to that. And she was the one who just made a kind of offhand comment and she was like, it would be great if you were to do a show here at some point. And of course, my thought was like, yes, yes, yes, right away. Let's do it. And we were able to sell it up very quickly for September of that year. And putting it together both times actually in September and July and now in August has been such a crazy process, but so much fun. And that was how the first one kind of came about.

And it was it was great. I mean, I remember being being here that night, and you know, the the the headliners that you were able to book and who said yes to being a part of that. I mean, that had to be so thrilling to have, you know, you've had now, you know, like Lynn Carey you and like other, you know, huge like Broadway legends say yes to not only participating in the podcast, but to coming and like sharing their stories on stage and and singing some songs and that's I mean that's it's gotta be thrilling for you.

[23:03] Charles Kirsch: Yeah I mean it is I've been very lucky with who I've been able to get to perform but I always feel like lining up is the hardest part lining up the cast for the evening and even though I have been able to get many yeses for both shows I always say the number of no's is like 10 times as many as the number of yeses and so that's been an interesting thing to sort of learn especially the first time around where I was getting very nervous about like is will I have a cast like are people going to be able to do this and then I was a little better at that the second time at sort of setting those expectations but yeah it's been very exciting to be able to meet these people who I really only knew through Zoom like Len Kerry and Judy Kay I have at this last one and Leori Reims and who we talked about Beth Fowler, Karen Mason, all kinds of people and I'm very excited about this lineup for the show in two weeks.

[23:55] Macon Prickett: Yes. So you've had the two you've had backstage Babbel live you've done it again and coming up you know you have this special edition that's celebrating the Tony Awards history which is which is really thrilling so what can you tell us without giving things away because you know we we don't want to don't want to give everything away but what can you tell us about this like Tony Awards edition of Backstage Babbel Live.

[24:20] Charles Kirsch: Yeah well I'm very excited about this I feel like even though I have produced these two shows before producing like a themed show is its own special kind of category, and I was very happy this was an idea of Jennifer Ashley Teppers that she asked me to do, and I was like, I've really made it being asked to do a theme show of 54 Below. And what it was originally planned for, the sort of backstory of it was it was planned for the night that the Tonies were gonna happen if they didn't happen. This was like in May when we thought the strike was gonna shut everything down and there wasn't gonna be a Tony's, and this was going to be a celebration of the awards on that night, as sort of in place of the awards.

And then, of course, the Tonies luckily were back on, and we were able to move the show to this date in August. So I'm very much looking forward to it. Um, we've got all Tony nominees, except for one person who's um performing a song that one of these Tony nominees was nominated for singing, and then we've got a video appearance by Daisy Egan, who's a Tony winner, and the lineup is great. It's uh Austin Pendleton, then Penny Fuller, Leroy Reams, Anita Gillette, uh John Andrew Morrison from A Strange Loop, and a lot of others, and everyone's gonna be essentially recreating a song from and telling a story about the show for which they were Tony nominated. So I haven't fully put together the sort of set list yet, so I don't know all the songs that people are gonna be singing, but I know Leroy Reims will be doing something from 42nd Street, and Penny Fuller will be singing from Applause, and Martin Vidnevic is singing from Brigadoon, and it will be a great night.

[26:04] Macon Prickett: Yeah, no, absolutely. I, you know, I've been lucky enough to see, you know, Leroy Reims just did a solo show, and I was lucky lucky enough to see that. But you know, Anita Gillette and Penny Fuller and all these, you know, these greats that are, you know, luckily still here, it's still performing, and but also we're part of that golden age, even the last few years of that golden age. You know, applause is another one of my favorite shows. Like every time Penny Fuller's here, every time she sings from applause, I'm just losing my mind because I'm like, Me too. How lucky are we? How cool is this that she's on our stage singing these songs that I thought, I mean, I couldn't have dreamt I would ever hear sing from applause, you know. It's like it's mind-blowing to me.

[26:48] Charles Kirsch: It is, and me too. Every time I mean, I always think that every time that I or the two times that I've produced a show, I'll have a moment where I'm sort of in the dressing room upstairs before the show, and everything is kind of chaotic as you know, before the show happens. But then I'll have a moment where I sort of stop and think like I'm in this room with like Len Kerry and Judy K, and they're all about to recreate songs that they performed on Broadway so many years ago, and it's just such a like pink me moment to have.

[27:17] Macon Prickett: Right. No, and you know, there is, I mean, there's so many songs about it, but there's something so special about show people, you know, and especially when you're when you're in a green room or a holding room or anything with all of these legends, which luckily, when we have these group shows produced by you know, like Rob Shra Rob Schneider, Michael Levine, Scott Siegel, yourself. When we have these group shows here at 54 Below, it it really I I also find myself, you know, sit standing downstairs during sound check or like walking around during the show, and I'm I'm thinking like, how lucky am I to be able to work here? But how lucky the city is to have this space to be able to produce these kinds of shows. It's it's something that's really special and something that we take for granted and really shouldn't.

[28:00] Charles Kirsch: Yes, yeah. I'm absolutely so grateful that some of it's not everyone, but that some of these people from the golden age of Broadway are still willing to like share their talents with us.

[28:10] Charles Kirsch: And I know it might be kind of I don't really know how they feel about it, but I imagine it might be kind of daunting to sort of recreate something that you did so many years ago, and the fact that they're willing to do that and share that with me and with the whole audience is a gift.

[28:25] Macon Prickett: Yeah.

[28:26] Charles Kirsch: Abs no, absolutely. I totally agree.

[28:29] Charles Kirsch: Um we're really excited to have this special Tony Awards history edition of Backstage Babble Live. Um I wanna I want to hop back into chatting about the podcast though. You know, you've had over 150 episodes, you've had countless guests. Where are what are your plans for the future of this podcast? Like, where do you where do you see this going? Are you interested in doing it for you know, another 150? Like what what is the future look like for Backstage Babble?

[28:58] Charles Kirsch: Yes, absolutely. I plan to do it as long as I can. I know in two years I'll be going off to college, so that might make things a little bit harder, but we'll see. And I would love to be able to continue it because even if I'm sort of busy in other areas, it's always my favorite thing to be doing is having these conversations and getting to edit them and put them out. So it doesn't at all feel like kind of work, if that makes sense. It feels like a real a really nice thing to be able to do in the middle of everything else. And yeah, so I would love to keep going for another 150 if I can find the guests to do it, which there are so many people who've worked on Broadway. I'm sure I'll be able to.

[29:39] Charles Kirsch: Absolutely. In terms of kind of the future, I would love to keep doing shows of 54 Below as long as you'll have me. I would love to. And I've been kind of asked, I mean, not not formally asked, but asked by other people if I've considered like turning them into a book or something like that, taking some highlights of the conversations or maybe even transcripts of some of the conversations, and that is definitely something that I'm interested in. I don't know sort of what the logistics of that would be, and certainly haven't like started seriously thinking about it yet, but that's definitely a possibility. I mean, getting to sort of be parts of these staples of the theater community, like 54 Below and new things going forward.

Like I just was able to do three panels this year at Broadway Con, which was super exciting because I've been going to that for a long time. And just I've been able to have a work at a table at a Broadway flea market and just things like that of being able to be kind of integrated into the community in certain ways has been really really exciting for me. And any new opportunity like that, I will look forward to.

[30:49] Macon Prickett: Yeah, of course. No, and it's also, you know, you're you went from this Broadway being this Broadway super fan into now, like you're you're in the biz. Like you are working in the industry, and you know that that's gotta be not only really special for you, but you know, is it is it ever daunting? Does that does that freak you out in a way? Do you get do you get nervous about that? About you know, that the perception of, you know, I was what you know, you're at BroadwayCon and you see these super fans, and you are a super fan, you know, so you're relating to them in a way, but you're also now a working professional. So, like, how what's what's your mindset there going into all of that?

[31:27] Charles Kirsch: Yeah, I mean, that's a tricky question to answer. I don't know, but with Broadway Con, I think because I'd been doing so many podcasts before that, the and even a few virtual panels and things, it wasn't sort of as daunting as it could have been because I felt like pretty prepared to be doing it. But definitely it can be kind of mind blowing to think. Like just a few years ago, I was going there or going to the flea market just as kind of a fan, and now being able to be on the other side of that, going to 54 Below as a fan and being on the other side of that. But I've been lucky, very lucky, that people have sort of treated me with a lot of respect and not kind of thought, isn't it cute that like a kid is doing these things, but treating me more like an adult who was doing these things, and I really value that a lot and feel very lucky to have had that experience.

[32:22] Macon Prickett: Absolutely. And you know, so many of you know, we hear this so many times, but you know, it costs it costs nothing to be kind.

[32:29] Charles Kirsch: Yeah.

[32:30] Macon Prickett: And so many of the regulars that we have come through our doors here at 54, who many of them are also working with you with your live shows, you know, are some of the kindest people. And yeah, absolutely. Knowing that all it takes sometimes is an ask. Sometimes all it takes is just respect from you. You get respect from them, and it it really can create a beautiful product and create a wonderful show, you know. Um, I d I do have a few fun um theater nerd questions I would love to ask you. Um, I'm so curious, what is your favorite musical of all time? If you had to pick one.

[33:03] Charles Kirsch: Hmm, that's a really good question. I was gonna ask actually, do you could I add one thing to the last answer?

[33:10] Macon Prickett: Absolutely, yes.

[33:12] Charles Kirsch: Because I thought of a story that's relevant to it, that um when we were rehearsing for this last 54 Below show, the one just a month ago, I was rehearsing with Josie de Guzman, and she was performing If I Were a Belle, and I before I kind of realized what I was doing, I asked for like one tiny thing. Like I asked if she and Michael Levine would consider doing it like a little bit slower or a little bit out of tempo. And then after I asked it, I realized like who am I to be giving any kind of suggestion to these people. But I think a lot of people in that position would have said something like that. Like, what right do you have to be giving us a note? Or not really a note, but a suggestion or something like that. And the fact that they didn't, but kind of respected it and treated it like a real suggestion from a director or something like that was very, very valuable.

[34:03] Macon Prickett: Yeah. Well, and I mean, you know, they probably think exactly what I'm thinking, which is, you know, this, yeah, Charles Kirsch is a kid, but Charles Kirsch knows his stuff just like anybody else. So why not listen, listen? That's the producer. That's the director. Like, absolutely. I love no, I love that. Thank you for sharing that.

[34:23] Macon Prickett: But I would like to know.

[34:24] Charles Kirsch: Yes.

[34:25] Macon Prickett: What would what would you say is your favorite musical of all time?

[34:28] Charles Kirsch: My favorite musical, I think I'll I'll do two. I'll cheat a little bit. I want to do one that I've seen and one that I haven't seen. Because I think those are different categories. The one that I've seen would be the revival, another revival of She Loves Me, that they did with Laura Benanti and Jane Krakowski. And that was another show that I became kind of obsessed with. I think I saw it three times in total, that revival. And it was just so like beautiful and kind of like the perfect encapsulation of like a golden age revival that got the spirit right, and the all those performers were so talented and it made me fall even further in love with Broadway in that era.

[35:09] Macon Prickett: And then of shows that the set.

[35:12] Charles Kirsch: I mean, it does not get better than that. That was it was so beautiful.

[35:15] Macon Prickett: Yeah, it was.

[35:18] Charles Kirsch: And then of shows I haven't seen, one that's sort of like a not necessarily guilty pleasure, but like an underappreciated show, is Do Re Mi, which you might know or you might not know. It's a show from the 60s with Phil Silvers and Nancy Walker. And I've always kind of hoped that there would be a 54 Below concert of it. So maybe that will happen sometime in the future. But that is one of my favorites because it also kind of encapsulates everything I love about the Golden Age. It's very funny, it's very smart and witty, but the tunes are very catchy. And it's one of those shows where you will put on a cast album. I'm sure you've had this experience too of a show that you know wasn't successful, but then by the time the cast album ends, you're like, how on earth was it not? Like I think it's not still running today.

[36:08] Macon Prickett: Right, right.

[36:08] Charles Kirsch: And that was another show that I got very into. And actually, I performed a song from that at my school talent show. So that was a very fun experience to have.

[36:19] Macon Prickett: I love that. If so if you could maybe if there was any show, if you could pick any show to revive, a big lush budget is not an option on Vival, would would Do Re Mi be the one?

[36:34] Charles Kirsch: It might be. It might be. I mean, in a certain way, I wouldn't say She Loves Me or On the Town because I feel like those revivals were sort of so perfect that I wouldn't want to see another one that's less good or something like that. Um, Do Re Mi it would be a big one. I know I came in, there are a few shows that happened sort of right in the like early to mid-2000s that was like right before I was born or right before I started seeing theater that frustrate me because it's like now there's not gonna be another revival for another like 20 years, like things like Follies or Gypsy, or but especially Follies. I always just love to see a full big production of me too.

[37:14] Macon Prickett: A big lush, expensive Follies.

[37:14] Charles Kirsch: And I am here for that all day, all day, every day. Um you spoke way earlier in the conversation. You spoke about how you know, listening to those earlier episodes, you know, your voice is a bit is a bit higher in those first episodes because you you were much younger. Um, but the first thing I noticed in listening to earlier episodes and then listening to some of your most recent is the change in the theme song. Can we talk about the theme song for a bit?

[37:42] Charles Kirsch: Yes, yes. The theme song was something I sort of always knew I wanted to have from the very beginning. And at the very beginning, it was just me kind of plunking out these notes on the piano and writing those lyrics. And then I was lucky enough to find I have really no skills when it comes to like music production or anything like that. So I was very lucky to find a guy named Tom Judson who does shows of 54 Below. I know he's uh Charles Bush's accompanist. And he also has many other talents. He's very good at graphic design. He created the logo for my podcast. And he also listened after he'd listened to a few episodes. He was nice enough to offer. And he said, like, do you want the theme song to sort of sound more professional?

I could help you with that if so. And of course I said yes. And he created this really gorgeous kind of arrangement with a little flourish in at the beginning, and it that has really just like made it grow by leaps and bounds, I think. And it's very exciting for me to be able to turn it on and hear that. And actually at the beginning of the last two 54 Below shows, I performed that song to start off the show. This one I don't think I don't think I will, but it was fun to work with Michael Levine on kind of learning the arrangement of that song on the piano.

[39:01] Macon Prickett: And yeah, yeah. So as far as your performance skills, do you um are you looking to kind of hone that craft moving forward? Are you are you thinking of maybe going to school for that? What what's going on there?

[39:14] Charles Kirsch: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I definitely do do a little bit of performing outside of school, mostly at the 92nd Street Y, we do two or three musicals a year. But I'm not really, it's not really my primary interest. Things on the more creative side, like producing and especially directing, is really what I want to do and probably want to try to study. But I was uh the show in July, one of the performers asked me to sing a like duet with her, and uh her name's Lonnie Ackerman, and she's done so many shows, but she wanted to sing from so long 174th Street, which is a musical of Enter Laughing. And at first I was kind of like, oh no, no, no, no, no. Like I I would be way too nervous to sing with you and have to fill the shoes of like Robert Morse, who did it originally, and there's no way I could do that.

But then she and Michael were both very kind of in favor of the idea, and they sort of persuaded me, and I'm really glad I did, because that was a very, very exciting thing to be able to sing with her and sing on the stage of 54 Below.

[40:16] Macon Prickett: Where's the thing?

[40:17] Charles Kirsch: Oh yeah. I mean, it's singing on our stage, but also with this, you know, this musical theater legend who also has all of these amazing credits and has performed all over the world. Like, no, that's that's gotta be thrilling. Well, I think if you can take with this producing and directing, I think we're gonna be seeing a lot more of you in the future. And I'm very excited to see what you have up your sleeves coming up in the future.

[40:39] Charles Kirsch: Thank you. It's very, very exciting. And of course, we're excited for Monday, Monday, August 28th. This is a special Backstage Babble Live, Tony Awards History edition. Um, y'all have to get tickets. Everyone listening has to buy tickets, and you also have to check out Backstage Babble, the podcast on Apple Podcasts on Spotify. Be sure to check that out. Charles, where can we find you on social media?

[41:05] Charles Kirsch: You can find me on Instagram at Backstage Babble and on Facebook, where I'm my name, Charles Kirsch, and you'll see me posting all the stuff I do on there, all the episodes and special events and things like that.

[41:18] Macon Prickett: Amazing. Well, we are so glad that you joined us today, Charles. And again, we're really looking forward to the 28th for the special Tony Awards edition of Backstage Babble. And I again thank you so much for joining us.

[41:30] Charles Kirsch: Thank you. And I can't wait for it too. And I hope to see all of you there. It's gonna be a blast.

[41:35] Macon Prickett: Thanks a lot, Charles.

[41:37] Charles Kirsch: Thank you.

[41:43] Announcer: You've been listening to the 54 Below Podcast, part of the Broadway Podcast Network. To find out more about our upcoming shows, visit us at 54below.org.