This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Nella Vera: Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the fabulous 54 Below.

[0:03] Nella Vera: Before we get started this evening, just a polite reminder, please take this moment to silence your cell phones and also there's no flash photography, please.

[0:16] Nella Vera: Welcome to the 54 Below podcast.

[0:19] Nella Vera: I'm Nella Vera, the club's head of marketing.

[0:22] Nella Vera: Our guest today is Emmy Award winner Jai Rodriguez.

[0:25] Nella Vera: He is perhaps best known to audiences as the culture guide in the groundbreaking original Queer Eye for the Straight Guy series.

[0:34] Nella Vera: But you may also recognize him from appearances on Grey's Anatomy, The Rookie, How I Met Your Mother, as well as his early theatrical roles in Rent, Xana Don't, and more.

[0:45] Nella Vera: Jai Rodriguez, welcome to our podcast.

[0:47] Jai Rodriguez: Thanks for having me.

[0:48] Jai Rodriguez: This feels very surreal as a West Coast former Broadway guy who's felt disconnected from theater for so long because I haven't been in the scene or done, you know, a show there in forever.

[1:03] Jai Rodriguez: And 54 Below has been this longtime dream of mine for many moons.

[1:09] Jai Rodriguez: So it's a thrill to be chatting with you and get excited for what's to come in about a month.

[1:17] Nella Vera: It's amazing. I mean, it's a welcome back to the New York stage for you.

[1:21] Nella Vera: It's been many years since you performed in New York City.

[1:24] Nella Vera: Tell us what inspired you to return with A Thousand Sweet Kisses.

[1:29] Nella Vera: That's the name of the show, which is an amazing reference to, of course, Rent, which we'll talk about later.

[1:33] Nella Vera: But how, you know, why did you decide this was the time to come back?

[1:38] Jai Rodriguez: So I've been touring the best I can on the West Coast.

[1:42] Jai Rodriguez: And you know, Los Angeles used to have a thriving cabaret scene pre-pandemic, but a lot of our venues closed and surrounding areas as well, such as San Diego, Martinis, Rockwell Table and Stage here in LA proper.

[1:55] Jai Rodriguez: And you know, those were outlets for me.

[1:58] Jai Rodriguez: My television career started getting really busy, and I kept looking at it as something I never wanted to let go of.

[2:05] Jai Rodriguez: Because for many people who recognize me from TV and film, they have no idea.

[2:09] Jai Rodriguez: The friends I made on this coast, many of which knew I did Rent, but they didn't equate that to being a singer.

[2:18] Jai Rodriguez: So the only times they really got to see me do my thing was in the cabaret space.

[2:24] Jai Rodriguez: And that space specifically, versus concerts versus any other kind of performance, it is the most intimate and vulnerable and honest and transparent conversation one can have with an audience.

[2:38] Jai Rodriguez: So that's what kept me coming back.

[2:40] Jai Rodriguez: But my desire to do 54 Below was kind of stunted because I felt like I don't know anyone in 54 Below, and maybe it's better if I come guest first on someone else's cabaret.

[2:52] Jai Rodriguez: And I just, I kind of was anxious and nervous about reaching out, even though so many of these stories that I've been sort of cultivating over the years, finding out what works, what doesn't work, now is the best time for me to come.

[3:06] Jai Rodriguez: It's the 20th anniversary of Queer Eye, 17 years from when I moved away.

[3:12] Jai Rodriguez: And when I lived in New York City in the early aughts, I was a fixture in the not just, you know, theatrical scene with Broadway work, but also in the nightlife scene with my cabaret show Twisted Cabaret Mondays, which featured oddly the Rent band.

[3:29] Jai Rodriguez: I used to use players that were my players in Rent or a four-piece band, three background singers, sometimes dancers.

[3:34] Jai Rodriguez: I was doing something in nightlife that no guy was doing.

[3:41] Jai Rodriguez: They would, in this venue specifically, would only allow singing drag queens and female recording artists.

[3:47] Jai Rodriguez: And they said, guys cannot bring in an audience.

[3:51] Jai Rodriguez: And I took that as a challenge.

[3:54] Jai Rodriguez: And it was the height of like *NSYNC and Justin and Britney.

[3:57] Jai Rodriguez: And I remember being really strategic about the way I presented myself.

[4:03] Jai Rodriguez: I kind of wanted to come in hot as the gay Justin Timberlake.

[4:07] Jai Rodriguez: So bedazzle everything and have these garments that were distressed and really present this sort of gay pop star vibe, which we did not have in popular culture.

[4:17] Jai Rodriguez: And much to my surprise, my night became a very popular night where I would bring in different Broadway stars.

[4:25] Jai Rodriguez: Each week I'd have a different guest.

[4:27] Jai Rodriguez: And, you know, these were the caliber performers that you normally had to spend hundreds of dollars to see, and yet the night was free.

[4:35] Jai Rodriguez: Um, and so it really, really affirmed my love of cabaret, and certainly that was, you know, postmodern top 40 cabaret with some musical theater peppered in.

[4:46] Jai Rodriguez: But I wondered what it would look like to use the narrative of my life, whatever chapter I was in at the moment, and tour with these shows.

[4:52] Jai Rodriguez: And thanks to television, my visibility was a little raised.

[4:55] Jai Rodriguez: It helped me book and sort of pack out venues outside of New York.

[5:00] Jai Rodriguez: New York and specifically 54 Below was always scary and daunting.

[5:05] Jai Rodriguez: So I'm equal parts, you know, excited and scared.

[5:11] Nella Vera: Oh, it's amazing. I love what you said, you know, about your show because it in a way you were the precursor to 54 Below, which is now, you know, they call it Broadway's living room, but there are so many other clubs around town, and some of them do a little bit of Broadway programming, but we're really kind of it, you know, a place for fans and performers.

[5:12] Nella Vera: A performer can come here and if, you know, they can do a whole Billy Joel show if they want or they can sing whatever music they love, not just show tunes.

[5:12] Nella Vera: So we love show tunes also.

[5:12] Nella Vera: So yeah, it sounds like your show was kind of like the precursor to this club that, you know, has opened and become the fan place.

[5:53] Nella Vera: You know, Shoshana Bean talked about this when she was going down her own musical journey for her personal music.

[5:53] Nella Vera: Her passion lied in musical theater and sort of this sort of more jazzy soulful sound, but she personally wanted to be more of a J-Lo.

[5:53] Nella Vera: And so when she left Wicked, she released an album that was so pop and with dancers, and finding your way as an artist and a vocalist is so key to finding your audience because they're seeking authenticity.

[5:53] Jai Rodriguez: And I always remember when she was sharing that in an interview or maybe it was at one of her concerts here on the West Coast, and I thought, what is the thing that brings me the most joy that I enjoy singing where I could have a real relationship with the audience?

[5:53] Jai Rodriguez: And I started to realize that even if it is a pop song, the way I perform it, it's a musical theater piece.

[6:43] Jai Rodriguez: And in the current state of musical theater with major pop stars scoring Broadway shows, there is this, um, you know, sort of inflection point where there's this intersection where they both meet, and so that was like, that's my gig.

[7:01] Jai Rodriguez: That is my gig.

[7:02] Jai Rodriguez: So I'll give you an example in the show.

[7:06] Jai Rodriguez: If it is a pop song, that's great, but it's a, I, it's strategically picked to tell a story.

[7:13] Jai Rodriguez: And almost, almost literally, I mean, I try to get the pop music to be so close to what just led into it.

[7:21] Jai Rodriguez: I am not the kind of performer who wants to just do a set list that would sound good on the radio just 'cause like I have to know why are you singing this song?

[7:35] Jai Rodriguez: Why is this song personal to you?

[7:38] Jai Rodriguez: Because I found those are the numbers that the audience responds the best to.

[7:44] Jai Rodriguez: And thank God my musical director Drew Woodkey is just sensational at, I sent him a cabaret show I did in June, and I said, here's a placeholder for you to kind of see my style, but a lot of these numbers I want to say bye to, and here's what I want to say in New York because the emotions are different.

[8:06] Jai Rodriguez: It's a homecoming.

[8:07] Jai Rodriguez: I feel like I've been on the West Coast waving through a window.

[8:12] Jai Rodriguez: Um, you know, metaphorically, I just kind of seeing the tours come in, looking at your socials and seeing who's playing 54 Below.

[8:20] Jai Rodriguez: And so now to kind of gather and cultivate this playlist, I wanted to feel like this is an immersive story where people can laugh, they can feel moved and learn maybe some of the behind the scenes of things, whether it's theater or television, where they might recognize me, some of the things they may not have known or heard about.

[8:41] Nella Vera: I love what you said about, you know, them saying that men can't sell out the cabaret earlier on in your career, and we're coming off an amazing month where we just had Adam Pascal, Santino Fontana, and Cheyenne Jackson's here this week, and you know, the boys are killing it.

[8:58] Jai Rodriguez: They kill it.

[8:59] Jai Rodriguez: Wolfgate, you know, here's the thing.

[9:00] Jai Rodriguez: They were like, you can play Joe's Pub.

[9:03] Jai Rodriguez: You can play this.

[9:04] Jai Rodriguez: Our nightclub is not a place for boys.

[9:07] Jai Rodriguez: It was a gay nightclub, but they were saying that's good.

[9:10] Jai Rodriguez: Men won't want to see men perform.

[9:12] Jai Rodriguez: And so I took that as a challenge.

[9:14] Jai Rodriguez: I was playing Angel at the time in Rent.

[9:17] Jai Rodriguez: And I thought, I will just have some of my friends on other shows come pop in.

[9:22] Jai Rodriguez: I mean, it was so fun.

[9:23] Jai Rodriguez: We even had Joey Fatone come to do Rent.

[9:25] Jai Rodriguez: And one of the songs that we would do, I often was famous for rewriting lyrics and doing parody versions.

[9:31] Jai Rodriguez: We did *NSYNC's "Girlfriend," me and my background singers who were both male that night, and Joey Fatone came up on stage, and we all did "Boyfriend" instead of "Girlfriend."

[9:42] Jai Rodriguez: And that killed, you know.

[9:43] Jai Rodriguez: And so we'd had these amazing moments.

[9:46] Jai Rodriguez: Um, gosh, I Shoshana Bean guested.

[9:50] Jai Rodriguez: I mean, I had just a, you know, Friendship Davis.

[9:52] Jai Rodriguez: I had all these incredible guests.

[9:55] Jai Rodriguez: Actually, Shoshana Bean, once I got too busy with Queer Eye, she took over the night and it became her residency.

[10:02] Nella Vera: Oh, wonderful.

[10:03] Nella Vera: I also love what you said about, you know, the film people and your friends out there don't know that you sing, and it's incredible because Cheyenne Jackson just said that in his show last night, and it's so surprising to me because I think, you know, this is what I love about Broadway performers.

[10:19] Nella Vera: They are so talented, and people don't know half of what they can do.

[10:24] Nella Vera: And then you go out, you know, into the film world and you kill it there, you know, on screen, but you have so much more to give, you know, to the world.

[10:32] Nella Vera: So I love the fact that you've been doing some cabaret and trying to sing also.

[10:36] Jai Rodriguez: Um, because your part of it is there.

[10:39] Jai Rodriguez: 100%.

[10:39] Jai Rodriguez: And I would have stayed longer in New York, uh, in a post Lin-Manuel Miranda world, but guys that look like me at that time were not afforded many leading role opportunities.

[10:53] Jai Rodriguez: I just didn't see a way forward.

[10:55] Jai Rodriguez: Um, and while I was getting asked to do different workshops of upcoming musicals, like I did the final workshops of Hairspray, and there were as an ensemble member, and they're like, We're all going to Broadway, and everyone was excited, and several cast members from Rent were in it, and they were like, You should leave and join us.

[11:11] Jai Rodriguez: And I was like, I'm playing Angel.

[11:13] Jai Rodriguez: I don't want to leave to be in the ensemble of a new show.

[11:18] Jai Rodriguez: You know, it was something like I felt like a step backwards.

[11:20] Jai Rodriguez: So that was a big deterrent from, you know, going back at that time.

[11:25] Jai Rodriguez: Times have changed, and I think we are looking at the body of work or the audition itself.

[11:31] Jai Rodriguez: And can this person tackle the material and tell the story truthfully?

[11:36] Jai Rodriguez: Great, then they're a fit.

[11:37] Jai Rodriguez: And Broadway has led the way, I feel in colorblind casting as it used to be called, but in inclusion and diversity, but in a way that I didn't see at the time.

[11:47] Jai Rodriguez: So here we are 17, you know, to 20 years later, and I want back in.

[11:53] Nella Vera: Um, we might be back in.

[11:55] Nella Vera: We've missed you.

[11:56] Jai Rodriguez: Yeah, I will tell you, I just saw Xana Don't being performed here on the West Coast.

[12:01] Jai Rodriguez: Oh my god.

[12:01] Jai Rodriguez: I hadn't re, hadn't revisited the material.

[12:03] Jai Rodriguez: For those who don't know, it was the off-Broadway musical.

[12:05] Jai Rodriguez: I was playing the title character Xana.

[12:08] Jai Rodriguez: What people don't know is I was doing Xana and making, I don't know, 400 a week.

[12:14] Jai Rodriguez: I can't remember what it was, but you have to really downsize your life.

[12:17] Jai Rodriguez: I stayed in a friend's guest room.

[12:18] Jai Rodriguez: It was so small that when I'd opened the door, I'd hit the bed.

[12:22] Jai Rodriguez: That is when I got Queer Eye.

[12:24] Jai Rodriguez: Thought it was gonna be a nothing show on a cable station, no one was watching, Bravo.

[12:30] Jai Rodriguez: And so I would do days on set, get up at 6, do work from 7 to 7.

[12:35] Jai Rodriguez: They would transport me to the theater, and so long as I was there by 8, missing half hour and everything, they would allow me to perform.

[12:43] Jai Rodriguez: I did that for two months.

[12:45] Nella Vera: Wow.

[12:46] Jai Rodriguez: I could never now work a full day and then sing that score.

[12:50] Jai Rodriguez: Um, and I was re-listening to the music, and I was like, oh my god, I was good.

[12:54] Nella Vera: Oh my gosh.

[12:55] Nella Vera: You, I loved the show.

[12:57] Nella Vera: I remember you in it and being the, you know, the matchmaker, and it just was such a delightful show.

[13:05] Nella Vera: You know, one of those musicals that has gone on to have this cult following, it's done at schools and communities all over the place.

[13:12] Nella Vera: And you know, yeah, it's, it was ahead of its time.

[13:16] Nella Vera: And, and you know, and so was Rent.

[13:17] Nella Vera: So you were, even though the show ran for 12 years, you were in it early on.

[13:23] Jai Rodriguez: Yeah.

[13:23] Jai Rodriguez: Those were the special years.

[13:25] Nella Vera: What was it like during those days?

[13:28] Jai Rodriguez: So, one of the things folks may not know is Al and Nan Larson, Jonathan's parents, were, um, you know, the people who were overseeing the estate for Jonathan Larson, and they were actively involved in all the decision making for new hires.

[13:44] Jai Rodriguez: I had to audition for them specifically in 1997 and get their green light to play Angel.

[13:50] Jai Rodriguez: They felt like family.

[13:51] Jai Rodriguez: We called them mom and dad.

[13:53] Jai Rodriguez: Um, the show doesn't rent itself was so odd that I was sleeping in the streets for tickets as a high school student in the spring and starring in it in the fall.

[14:04] Jai Rodriguez: Um, is almost unheard of. But the level of professionalism that that teaches you quickly, especially when you're the youngest, which I was, Leslie Autumn Jr. was 17. He came in and did a little stunt for a couple months as I think it was like a vacation cover for a role for like three months, which I think about often because he was so young. But in a leading role, it was me. And so I got to learn from like Michael McElroy and all these different um leading men and women who had had all these incredible credits and the professionalism that you learn on a Broadway uh stage and backstage, it has served me well in television and film. I'm first on set, I know my lines, I you know, it's I I'm unafraid to make choices. Um it is it is remarkable how theater can impact you as a performer as a human. Um and I miss that camaraderie, I miss that relationship with a live audience.

[15:03] Nella Vera: Yeah.

[15:04] Jai Rodriguez: Angel was such a revolutionary part. You know, the whole show was Broadway had never seen anything like it, but Angel in particular was entirely original for a Broadway stage, and it was more amazing that the character was so beloved. Everyone loved Angel. Did you feel that from the audience when you played the part?

[15:23] Jai Rodriguez: Let's let's unpack the time. So we are mid to late 90s. I guess in in popular culture, we have RuPaul with You Better Work. That's about it. Anytime you'd see a drag queen on television, it was like on one of these talk shows where they were trying to demean them uh and not amplify them. So when I saw Rent, you know, coming from a conservative Christian, born-again Christian Long Island family, I had no exposure to the outside world. Rent was shocking, yet it was filled with such love. And I wanted in. But when I saw Rent, I absolutely did not consider that I could be right for Angel. Sure, he was Latin, but in my mind, I didn't even, I hadn't even kissed a boy yet. I wasn't even out. I wasn't anything.

I was a teenager who knew who he was, but too ashamed and scared to admit it. So the thought of even playing a character that I'd be guilty by association. And in that time, it was scary to be and you know, uh playing a gay character. Sure, on a show like Rent, you get a pass because the character is beloved. But I had my own inner homophobia to struggle through. And when I got cast, I was like, oh God, like I have to wear dresses and I have to kiss a man. And you know, the first Collins I had was straight, which was awkward at first. And then we built a great friendship that, you know, really I always joke that for the five years I did Rent, I rarely dated because eight shows a week, you have someone pledging their undying love to you. It does something to your psyche that makes you feel like that part of your life is covered.

[17:03] Nella Vera: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I so you had a fairly religious family. I assume that they saw you as Angel eventually. What was that?

[17:11] Jai Rodriguez: You know, when I did Queer Eye, my mother finally I think Queer Eye shifted things. When I was doing Rent, it was very much pray for him, he's trying to be a woman on Broadway. When I did Queer Eye, I know. When I did Queer Eye, the narrative shifted from people saying, you know, I saw your son as doing the thought theater to I saw your son on that TV show and I loved it. You know, people at her church and stuff. And suddenly she took ownership of it, and she was like, Well, yeah, you know, he got that from me. You know, I'm fabulous. I taught him everything he knows. So it was an ownership and a societal pressure that made her anxious about how will people receive me, the you know, and the more she got informed, and the more she saw the sparkle and the joy and the kindness and compassion that Queer Eye offered her friends, the more inclined she wanted to be a part of, you know, showing up.

And one of the things was when I was I did I did Xanna for six months, left Xanna to do Queer Eye ultimately. I couldn't do both, so I just put in my notice, finished two weeks of Queer Eye, show Air is huge hit. I didn't get a goodbye show at Rent. I wanted the Happy Trail song. I wanted the cake, I wanted to say goodbye to the fans. So a year into Queer Eye, I went back and did a month um of Rent with uh Mel B was uh was uh Mimi at the time. Yes, yeah, Scary Spice was lighting candles, and um yeah, and so I really got that moment, and my mother came to opening night. I can't say that she understood the show, but she thought you're really pretty and you look like me in drag. So I was like, fantastic.

Um it's really remarkable sometimes how we can be scared of the unknown, and all the things that Rent talks about were things I was told to fear, and those people who are that way are, you know, uh they're they're scary and they're gonna take you down a dark path. And the truth was the theater community taught me that as different as we are, we rally around each other and become our family of choice. And I've never been a part of any group, church or otherwise, that has that kind of um accepting unconditional love that only the theater community has.

[19:18] Jai Rodriguez: And I think specifically in cabaret, because theater, you know, we have hit our marks and we have to sing our notes as written and say the words, but in cabaret, it's that, but a little bit more unbuttoned and relaxed. And in fact, with this show, A Thousand Sweet Kisses, I was realizing in previous shows, I was talking about relationships, and maybe I was sharing what was done to me, but not sharing how my part in it. And I the older I gotten, I thought it was really important to tell stories that were balanced and share from both sides. So there's a couple of moments in the show where I reveal some things that were not my finest moments. And the reason why I say them is because I want to demystify some of the ideas that everything is happening to us, and we had no participation in it to kind of understand our part in some things and give some empathy to the situations that, you know, hopefully after looking at them through that lens, you can release some of that.

And so, you know, while I am talking um about love, sex, and intimacy, I don't always come out smelling like a rose, and I can own it this time this time around at this station in life. And you know, there are some moments, there is a specific moment in the show that I was like, I could never, I could never sing this song at 54 Below, there's no way. And I talked to my musical director, and he's like, you have to. Um, and specifically because the the show is the that number is a little blue, it's a little um, it's a little sexually explicit, but I learned a lesson from Lily Tomlin that I hold with me. Lily Tomlin was doing her one woman show, and this is maybe six, seven years ago, and she has a story about a sexual act, but the language she chose and the way she told it to a mostly senior citizen conservative audience had them rolling.

And afterwards, I said, Lily, how did you? Because we did a sitcom together for a year. So I went backstage and I was like, I can't believe you got away with talking about that topic. And she said, it's not if you talk about it, sex is universal. It's how you say it. And if you say it intelligently with wit, it isn't explicit. And yet now you've brought us in because we've either been in that situation, hurt someone in that situation. And so it affords you the opportunity to transform a very familiar song into a parody version that is covering something that you know might make you blush, but you're laughing. You're laughing all the way through.

[21:58] Jai Rodriguez: And that, and I've tried it out in Palm Springs to a very much older crowd and on the road, and it just kills all the time.

[22:07] Jai Rodriguez: And because I I think I tend to have a sweet kind of uh approachable nature, um, it doesn't come off as gratuitous.

[22:14] Nella Vera: Mm-hmm.

[22:15] Nella Vera: No, I'm sure it's gonna be fantastic.

[22:15] Jai Rodriguez: And I just love, you know, it sounds like uh as an artist, you've matured, you know, to the big part. I want to I want to introduce you to who I am as a grown-up. When I look back at images of my early odds, and you know, I was in Rent. Like, look at our costumes. Those costumes were oddly relevant at the time. Like when you went to a party during my Rent era, it was not uncommon to see someone dressed in the style of the show because that's what was reflected in popular culture. So I look back at these pictures and I was like, I don't know what boy band I thought I was in with these bedazzled shirts and these ripped, you know. But I, you know, then you go from there for me to Xana. I had platinum white hair walking around the city with residual glitter from the night before.

That was my life. And then Queer Eye was all about the style taste in class while I'm living in New York. So it was a bit of that, but more sophisticated. You take all of that, which will never leave me, and grow up a little, and then you figure out how those pieces of you still find their way in. Um, but in a way that feels right and age appropriate for this place that you are in now. And with the musicality, it's also like taking um songs from the radio that are performed by a much younger audience and transforming them to what makes sense and what's relatable for you to be performing them.

[23:41] Jai Rodriguez: Um and I use that word specifically. I just did a concert not so long ago with a friend who is a singer. He is a recording artist singer. I see myself as a storyteller. And so us doing a show together was really a lot of give and take because I like to tell stories, and he's more of the recording artist guy, and there were differences, and somehow we found our way together with each of us taking a page from the other's book, and there was a cohesiveness that I I didn't anticipate finding in that kind of program.

[24:15] Nella Vera: That's great. Um, speaking of, so you are having some wonderful guest stars come and join you on stage, some friends from the Broadway world. Um so that's delightful. Are we allowed to say who they are? Are you keeping them a secret?

[24:31] Jai Rodriguez: Well, the first night is Clyborn Elder, which you know, um, he's just a fantastic entertainer performer. People know him from Company, the Gilded Age. Um, he's also been in the Bonnie and Clyde uh Broadway cast. Um, and so I was searching for folks to ask, and I wanted some people I knew for sure, and then some people that I didn't. The show's called A Thousand Sweet Kisses, and my intent is to tell all these stories, good, bad, and otherwise, and land on something familiar, which I think is gonna be I'll cover you. And that's where my duet partners come in, and the show will end with one sweet kiss. And um, which is a very awkward thing to approach a stranger about and say, Hi, Broadway star, you may not know me, but I have a show of 54 Below, and I'd like to do this duet, and oh yeah, there's a kiss at the end.

Um, how does that sound stranger? Um, but uh, you know, to my uh merriment and and surprise, everyone's really cool. The other thing is uh I know some great folks who I've known for 20 years who happen to be now huge Broadway stars, people like Orfe, who will be duetting I'll cover you with me on the streaming night, which will be Friday the 27th. Wanted to make sure I went live every single day during the pandemic on Facebook and Instagram, built this great following, and I would do concerts from my bedroom. So from concerts in my bedroom all the way to 54 Below, I wanted them to have songs that they loved, and I'll cover you was one of them. So um Orfe being the big Broadway star girly that she is, we met when she was doing Saturday Night Fever, and I have loved her ever since.

Her and her husband, Andy Carl, I think are just just heaven. And we chat on social media, kept each other that way all these years. But I was, when I tell you, I was so scared to ask her. She was my first ask, and I was so scared that she would. I and I in my message, just imagine, I'm in your DMs. You see a voice note from, you know, someone you've known a long time, but like, what is he voice noting me? And I first start with completely giving them a way out. I'm like, listen, I'm about to ask you something. No is a complete sentence. Even if you just don't want to do it, you don't have the time, you have a conflict. I'll completely understand. But I'm coming back to New York for the first time in over 17 years.

I'm super scared and nervous, and all I would love is to see a familiar face on that stage dueting with me, someone I admire, respect, and look up to. Here's the deal, you know, I'm gonna pay you for your time. Like, I tried to really sweeten the pot. Um, and Orfe immediately was like, here's my number, call me. Um so we chatted, and it was great, and I'm excited because um I think um, you know, in some ways, this reminds me of when in high school they would ask the quarterback to be in the school musical. You want, you know, you want the popular kids to come play with you, but for me, selfishly, it's also just that moment of I've played stages alone for years, but the moment of um performing and storytelling with an actual Broadway performer, actor, singer, there's um there's a magic that you can't duplicate if you're just singing a duet somewhere for the vocals alone. And I just couldn't think of a better button to my show than I'll cover you.

[27:55] Jai Rodriguez: And so that's what it'll be. And the last night is still TBD. I have another rehearsal, and Drew and I are gonna brainstorm. We want to make that one the biggest ask yet and see where we land with it. You know, I'm shooting for some folks who I don't know but are big names, and you know, my friends who I've asked about this said, just ask so and so. I know they're a celebrity, but they probably know of you, and what's the worst thing they could say? No. And that's true. But I did have some wish list folks out there that I'm like, I wonder a lot of people are working, which is good, but they have conflicts because of their Broadway schedule.

[28:34] Nella Vera: Well, fantastic. We're super, super excited. I want to go back and ask you about a couple of things, you know. We know you're obviously famous for playing Angel, and we've had, you know, drag and trans characters in Broadway forever, from La Cage to The Producers to Rent. They've always been beloved and welcomed by audiences. Is it frustrating to you to see the attack on our drag artists and our trans friends and our non-binary friends? Does it feel like we're regressing? Is it weird to have, you know, been famous for this part, you know, two decades ago, and think, oh, you know, we've changed minds and we've opened these doors and then find ourselves today?

[29:24] Jai Rodriguez: So I don't think I had seen much drag representation outside of, you know, RuPaul and musical theater. Angel was my first because I was, I think, 17 when I saw the show. I remember not quite fully understanding drag yet myself, but then I have to jump into the show and play someone who fully understands who they are, a fully realized human being with history. I remember I delved deep with like Paris is Burning, To Wong Foo. I was given all this homework, and then I would go out to the clubs and get snuck in underage because I was Angel and got to experience drag culture, specifically the ballroom scene. That being said, all these audience members from all walks of the political spectrum, obsessed with Rent, love the character of Angel, right?

I do Queer Eye. The world embraces us. Donald Trump does an episode. We've got George Bush talking about making a joke about us in a positive way. There was almost this acceptance of us, don't marry though. Can't get married, no marriage equality yet. Don't tell us too much about your sex life or anything. But we like you guys, you can do our hair, you know, it was limiting. For years, whether it is, you know, Tootsie or any other films that were out that were rated PG-13, and suddenly now, Hairspray, now there's this bizarre attack on the art form of drag, which has nothing to do about anything that is disruptive or whatever. Look, all entertainment is tiered in ways that it's very easy to tell who should be consuming it at what point in life, right?

That's undeniable. You're not gonna take a six-year-old to an rated R movie. It's up to obviously the parents to do their homework. But drag in and of itself innately is not dangerous. Story hour by drag queens is not dangerous. You know, none of that is, in my opinion, going to adjust someone's logic as a kid. I knew very much who I was as a kid.

[31:29] Jai Rodriguez: And I think the idea of drag being suddenly dangerous is pivoting away from the real issues that the country is dealing with. It has nothing to do with nothing. They thought drag queens would be a vulnerable scapegoat for a lot of larger issues that our country is facing. But you know, I think a midnight drag show at a bar is not the same drag show you're gonna get if it's a story hour with an approved book that's already at that school's library. The truth is that LGBTQ kids are bullied in schools disproportionately higher than their straight counterparts. And queer students do not just become queer at 18. You have years and years and years of knowing who you are, sometimes hiding or code-switching just to get by for safety reasons as a child.

So there's no grooming or sexualization of kids unless you consider what I went through, which is when you are in first grade. Is that your girlfriend? Oh, you're gonna be a looker when you're older. That to me is grooming, you know, all the different ways I was forced to be something that I did not personally resonate with. I think the community is saying, the LGBTQ+ community is saying, we've all been children who were LGBTQ and felt unseen and unsafe. And parents should have protected us by making us more visible, making it punishable by, you know, making sure that bullying doesn't happen, that violence doesn't happen against us. There's a lot of folks who think, parents who think, if I find out I still have X number of years to fix them.

Your child is not broken. You know, all the best thing you can do is love and support your child and trust that what they're feeling, if they're saying it to you, they've struggled with this feeling, and that it takes such courage and strength to share or even come out at an early age. I didn't. There were kids in my school that were very out and loud and proud, and I saw the way they were treated, and I was like, no, ma'am, that will not be me. You know, and so I was, you know, I even in musical theater, I just was, I think at the very least, I was kind of just don't ask, don't tell kind of vibes. But I think the attack on drag queens is wildly unnecessary.

[33:57] Jai Rodriguez: I will say I did play a lot of drag queens on television and film, and that kind of went away when the Drag Race girls came. Now, when an audition for a drag queen role comes along, I just literally text my agents, I'm like, they're gonna get a Drag Race girly, and that's totally fine. I'm good with it. I don't want to shave on to the next one.

[34:14] Nella Vera: Yeah.

[34:15] Jai Rodriguez: Yeah. It's so bizarre. I think those of us that work in the theater, because we're in our little protected cocoon where everybody gets to act and put on wigs and be whatever. And so just it's such a bizarre fixation. It began. Women were not allowed to act on stage, and so men would play those characters. Yeah, it's not indicative of anything other than you're playing a character. You know, if you talk to people like Beyoncé, they're like, I'm a clown. I am literally in makeup and costumes for the sole purpose of entertainment. But you know, being out in the early aughts was an act of political defiance, you know, being LGBTQIA+ to being anywhere on the trans spectrum, you know, transvestite, drag queen to transgender, transsexual, those topics were almost unheard of.

We did not have the terminology non-binary yet. Most of my non-binary friends who identify as non-binary now back then used the term androgynous, and even my character Angel, I think we could safely qualify as non-binary because their lyric in the show is I'm man, woman, gay, straight, all things in between. I leave no one out in the 11 o'clock number "Someday You Might Love Me." And so I look back at my career, and speaking of the bubble you mentioned, first I play a drag queen who dies from AIDS-related complications. Then I go off to Lincoln Center and do a play opposite Hope Davis about microaggressions on a college campus. Then I go off and do Xanadu playing a non-binary character all before the year and during the year 2003. So my life was around people who were fighting for equality through the art form of theater.

[36:09] Jai Rodriguez: We were storytellers that were reflecting a human experience that had not often been told. And even though you were an audience member being entertained, the messaging was very subversive. I like these people. I have empathy for these characters. Therefore, when I go out into the world and I see folks that remind me of these folks, hopefully the message was I will be kinder, more I will listen, I will try to expand what I previously thought of as scary or unknown to just, oh, that's so-and-so. And they're a human being that deserves respect, love, and kindness.

[36:45] Nella Vera: Yeah, that seems to be a theme with your career because, you know, Queer Eye did the same thing on a grand explosive scale. Like, how did you become involved with that project in particular? Like, did you audition or thought you were gonna die?

[36:56] Jai Rodriguez: All right, so I'm doing Xanadu, right? We talked about it. Every off-Broadway performer, actually, y'all are making, y'all off-Broadway kids are making probably still not enough to live in New York City, but making way more than we made, but that's neither here nor there. So I'm doing Xanadu. I'm doing XL. So I got a little bank coming in, but I still gotta move out of my nice apartment that Rent had afforded me into a, you know, a two-bedroom chair and teeny tiny room. I get a call from my agent, it's a different agent at the agency, and they say, Hey, we have this audition. It's for a hosting job, which to my mind is you stand in front of a building with a microphone and talk about it, and they wanted you to be a nightlife expert.

Nella, to me, that's standing in front of the night and, you know, limelight and giving its history. I don't know. So I go into this audition. I have platinum white hair. I tried to dress sophisticated, I don't know if I nailed it or not. I'm sitting across from a woman. She is a, she's I think formerly a casting director, and now she was doing product placement for this new show that didn't have a title that I was told. And she asked me to take her on a romantic date as a divorced dad living on Long Island. Where would we go in the city? What would we do? Now I was a man about town, I knew everything. So I, you know, I picked the butterfly exhibit. I had this great restaurant that my friend was a chef at, so I could get us at the chef's table.

Like things that if you're New Yorker, New Yorker, New Yorker in the scene would be common sense to us, but if you're coming from Long Island, maybe you didn't have access to. She was floored. She said, How old are you? I said, 23. She said, you're 27. She said, Where'd you go to college? I said, Well, I started, but then I got Queer Eye, I got Rent, and so I couldn't fit. She's like, You graduated. So she wanted me to lie the next day for NBC and Bravo, a panel of them in a boardroom that would be my callback. I go in and there's three chairs facing a long packed boardroom. And so I sit in the middle of the three chairs, because that was the empty seat, and there's a brightly dressed blonde guy to my right, and sort of a gay Buddy Holly to my left.

And I would answer the very simple questions the board would ask me. But these two knuckleheads kept trying to discredit me and making jabs and poking fun. So about three questions in, I'm realizing I'm not getting this. And these guys are upstaging me because they are also up for this part and they want it more. So here's what I'm gonna do. NBC is in the room, they do sitcoms. I'm gonna be funny, quick-witted, quippy, and memorable. I didn't get this job, but gosh darn it, they're gonna remember my name. This little blonde Puerto Rican kid, right? With probably residual eyeliner and probably some glitter that would not wash off, right? So get the visual. It turns out it was Carson Kressley and Ted Allen who were already on the show, and that audition was a chemistry test to see if I could comedically hold my own with existing cast members.

And then I left. No one tells me this. I call this new agent at my agency, and I was like, don't ever submit me for like that. I know you don't know me. I was out of my league, they completely made a fool out of me. He's like, okay, hangs up. I'm in the Xanadu dressing room. I'm applying my glitter for that night's performance. I get a call from said agent again. And I thought I was in trouble because I kind of was, you know, really hot when I spoke to him. And he said, Hey, well, I guess you didn't do that bad. You start Monday. And I was shocked. All I was told was it was like Charlie's Angels meets The View, and you need to be openly gay, and then you're gonna be making people over, and you're a nightlife host, and none of it that I was told at that time ultimately ended up being what I was gonna do.

But I remember in that moment feeling like my life is gonna change. I did not think it was gonna be a global phenomenon, but I was like, I'm gonna be making, you know, money enough to like get my own apartment. You know what I mean?

[40:51] Jai Rodriguez: So this is the funny thing. The boys did not know me, right? They all decided to come that week to see Xanadu. Oh my god. Is a sparkly, glittery, gay LGBTQ show. And I remember looking out one of the numbers is called "Be a Man." And I start out in a long like military jacket with boots and aviators and the military hat in olive green. There's some sparkles on it. During the middle toward the end of the song, there's a reveal and a high note where I take that off, and you realize I'm in a crop top military jacket shirt combo with short, short military pants, both completely bedazzled, huge boots, which have also been bedazzled. I mean, it is literally like if you were gonna go look up sexy military at Party City and throw glitter on it and stones, and then I do that.

[41:55] Jai Rodriguez: You do the whole like high note thing. I could hear from where I was on stage, the whole row of them bust out to this day. I remember them laughing so hard, uncontrollably at that moment. And I thought, well, at least they get me, at least they know because I was the only one on our cast of Queer that had that theatrical theater energy. Carson is a big personality, but specifically from theater, that if I were to ever do anything and there were glitter or singing involved, they're like, Oh, yeah, it's just Jay. You know, and I like that. I've held on to that piece. Obviously, such an iconic role that impacted your life and career. Um, do you have a favorite episode?

[42:39] Nella Vera: Oh my god. Do you remember?

[42:40] Jai Rodriguez: I have so many that I remember. I remember Kylie Minogue was on the show at one point, right? So Capitol Records did an album for some of the songs that would appear. We did a partnership with them, and she was on there. She lovingly wanted to do the hip tips with us at the end of the show, which I loved. But one of the things that I think of most was we essentially were superheroes in the way that when we asked season one, no one wanted to work with us. Let's make that clear. The word queer, no big company wanted to be affiliated. I think we had like IKEA for everything. No one wanted to work with us because they were scared of the word. Season two, everybody wanted to work with us. So we got to cess out who we really wanted to be in business with.

That being said, you have the ability to call any place and say, we want to shoot there, and for them to say, open door, have whatever you need, do whatever. So some of the biggest memories I have are, um, there was a we did some of the biggest loser thing. This couple that really wanted to lose some weight, they've gained a bunch of weight, and they were starting to feel unhealthy and um not as active as they wanted to be. And they had a goal of learning how to sash, learning how to salsa.

[43:51] Jai Rodriguez: So, my trainer at the time, Karen Hauser, she is now on strictly ballroom in the UK. She's a huge celebrity there. At the time, she was just a trainer and a professional ballroom dancer. So I remember completely directing and orchestrating this scene where I have my hero couple in the elevator. We're lifting up. I told them the director to cue the music. So when the doors opened, all of a sudden this boom of salsa music comes in, and this couple is so excited because they're gonna learn how to salsa dance. They stuck with it for six months and did a reveal, yes, they lost some weight, but they were such fantastic salsa dancers that it gave them a new lease on life that something that seems so daunting and scary would ultimately become this joyous thing that brought them closer together.

So for me, it wasn't about the weight loss, it was about getting to have a group activity as a couple that brings you closer together and gives you another common goal. That and I took charge of that. I just remember directing the heck out of that moment because I knew what I wanted it to look like. I knew the Broadway reveal I wanted in act two, which would have been our follow-up, right? So I knew where I wanted to go, and using someone like Karen, who's a stage performer, now a huge celebrity in the UK, it was just magic.

[45:07] Jai Rodriguez: And those to be able to, this is one of the things that people don't know. I mean, listen, I have an Emmy at home. Oh, that's not the Emmy's in the other room. There's a phone, there's a scary phone there now. It's Halloween, you can't viewer, listener, you cannot see my place is decorated for Halloween. But anyway, I can see the lights. There's an old-fashioned phone nook in my apartment where my Emmy sits. Um, and you know, the show Queer Eye afforded me a lot of things, but one of the things that I I I it didn't do, which may have come as a surprise, was open acting doors. The one thing I got offered was to play Carmen Gia on Broadway, because they thought, oh, fabulous gay, fabulous gay.

And it was such a bizarre, I don't know if anyone's ever replaced someone before who's put on paid vacation. It's unpleasant. You're coming in, you have a cast of people who on one hand feel it's their obligation to welcome you. And on the other hand, they're like, damn, like you're literally here, and our friend is not in the show. I mean, they were being paid, but it was a weird, it was a weird way to, I was excited to join the cast of the producers because it felt like a traditional big Broadway show, and Rent was like, we felt like the kids down the way who didn't have as much.

[46:22] Nella Vera: Exactly.

[46:23] Jai Rodriguez: That moment was kind of ruined by some cast members and crew members, specifically Wardrobe, who treated me like an absolute monster, as if my replacement was like that I was fueled with the information that you know someone was gonna be benched for me to do three months. And I just remember that tainting it so badly that I I never ended up doing another Broadway show after that. Um, but Queer Eye didn't open doors. I've done a lot of regional. I've played Usnavi in In the Heights, and going back to our earlier point, every reviewer who came to see me was like, he can actually sing and he can really rap like I came as a novelty. And that's the other thing. When I started going to auditions here in LA for scripted work, my friends, uh, we go back and forth on this.

It's the you're really good, as opposed to you were really good. It's the I did the subtext is I know you were on that show. I just didn't expect you to be talented. And that is something I've struggled with my whole life, which is why I always return to cabaret. And that's why Thousand Sweet Kisses is so important to me, because it's vulnerable, honest storytelling about a lot of these moments sung with great passion and humor in a way that like television and film doesn't really always afford me.

[47:50] Jai Rodriguez: The funny thing is I'm on a show called Uncoupled right now. Well, there's a strike, but when we return, most of our cast from Brooks Ashkama, I can't remember say his last name. We all know Brooks from The Prom and from Solomon. We love him. 10 points if you can say his name fast. Um, Brooks I love, but like our entire cast, Colin Hanlon, who plays my husband, did Rent with me, Broadway Neal's a singer, Tisha Campbell's a performer. Like our whole cast sings. I'm like, where's our musical episode? Uh I don't know if that'll happen. Um but you know, it's like there's some there are moments where singing has been the tipping point that's helped me get a TV role. Um, but it's it's rare. And um, I moved here to do a singing Sean Fox that was dancing with a stars format, but singing.

And I thought, oh, when I tell you no, I thought that was gonna be my I was gonna be on Glee. And then when I saw that Matthew Morrison was playing the Spanish teacher, I thought, nope, I'm there's no way. If I can't even get a singing part as a Spanish teacher, um it was fine because I did get another Ryan Murphy show after you before that, so it was okay. But I think about that. Oh, Matthew Morrison would be a good person to ask.

[49:03] Nella Vera: Does he live in New York?

[49:06] Jai Rodriguez: I think so. I mean, he's played at 54 Below before.

[49:11] Nella Vera: I'd be yeah, Matthew Morrison and I go way back.

[49:14] Jai Rodriguez: Let me tell you, okay, here's little T, dear listener. If you're still listening to this, thank you. Also, Matthew Morrison and I were like going to be roommates. We were like really good friends during the Hairspray time when we were all like whatever, and we were like, let's stay together in Seattle, like because out of time run. And we used to go out all the time. He used to come over. Uh my boyfriend and I house, we used to host like after show parties and stuff. I just I have all these pictures of us from like being like 21 years old, and then he goes out to become this megastar. Um that's someone I hadn't thought of from that era of my life that would be really fun to duet with.

[49:50] Nella Vera: Interesting.

[49:51] Jai Rodriguez: Okay. Amazing. I love it. Well, we are so so looking forward to your show. It's one of our highlights. I mean, we are we're killing it with the programming these two months because we've just had so many incredible stars, and then you're kind of finishing off, you know, this beautiful. Nella, I think you should give us um all when we come in. I wanna like take a Nella seminar on because there's because A, everyone has anxiety about what they're gonna do. It's also like, you know, thank God I have Drew who's played there a bunch and everything, but it's you have about 60 minutes, give or take, and you have if you're someone like me, 18 years worth of stuff. What's the most important thing you want to share?

What are the most important songs? Like right now, we have 20 songs that we have to trim down to like probably 11, 10, 12. Like you have to try to really have to trim, but it's like, well, this song is kind of saying the same thing in this, and what are you sacrificing? This it's a science to get that tight 60.

[50:56] Nella Vera: It's such a science.

[50:57] Jai Rodriguez: And I know that we are, well, we're 60 to 75, so you have a little bit of room in the past.

[51:11] Nella Vera: I love it.

[51:12] Jai Rodriguez: I love it. Sometimes we have to, you know, wave or whatever. But uh no, it's you know, it is because we have two shows on the same night. But no, I think you know what is most meaningful and personal to you, your fans and the audience will feel that, and you are the best judge of it. When I saw Cheyenne perform, you I knew Cheyenne Jackson from when I was in Rent, and he I believe he was in Thoroughly Modern Billy. Um G Cheyenne, and he was partnered at the time, and this is when we all used to go to the clubs Sound Factory, Twilo, Limelight, like we were it, we were in our bad kid era, and it's funny because I always looked at him and found him intimidatingly attractive because I was this twinky little Latin boy, and then when I got Queer Eye, they asked us to do this special, um like a Scott Evans, no, Scott Nevins wanted us to do this concert at Joe's Pub. It was a charity, and um Cheyenne Jackson and I did Elephant Love Medley from the Moulin Rouge. It is on YouTube, worth the watch.

[52:23] Nella Vera: Oh my god, I'm getting on that now, immediately.

[52:27] Jai Rodriguez: I remember they asked me to do it, and they asked me to, and I was petrified to ask Cheyenne. Years later, he goes off to become not just a big leading man on Broadway, but a massive television and film star. He's a staple out here. When you see him in cabaret form, it is vulnerability to the max. He opens up his heart in such a beautiful way that if you were like me thinking he's the scary hunky guy that you could never talk to, he's not. Um, he is those hunky, but he is the most loving, kind, smart, compassionate man that I feel very fortunate to know. I just ran into him not so long ago, and I'm just always so ever inspired by theater folks who create a pack that isn't just linear, but that they do all the things.

[53:22] Nella Vera: It's a beautiful thing.

[53:23] Jai Rodriguez: Yeah. It's wonderful. Like you. So we are really looking forward to your show. Um, remind everybody when your show is.

[53:32] Jai Rodriguez: Yes, you can go to 54below.org and you can get tickets there. And if you want to know more information or you wanted to like stay, follow me at J A I Rodriguez on Instagram, and I obviously in my bio, you can get tickets for this show, but you can kind of see all the fun little teaser videos I'll have rolling out. It's October 26th, 27th, and 28th. So if you're feeling festive, it's Halloween is gonna be approaching. You want to do something, but you don't want to like be out till four in the morning, get some tickets for my show, get a group together. You know, I would love it if people came in a little like costume because I don't even know what I'm wearing yet. I'm trying to figure out like a nod, a wink wink to Halloween without being super literal.

Um, Drew and I are still sussing that out, but make it a fun outing with girlies. Remember the people that you used to go sleep outside of the Rent theater to get tickets for? Call them. Remember the people that used to have martinis with while watching Queer Eye together? Get them together, y'all. This is your show. These are the stories you're gonna want to hear. And if you've never heard of the original Queer Eye or you didn't get a chance to see Rent, it was before your time. Come experience a piece of musical theater and LGBTQ history in a way that'll be informative, lighthearted, a lot of fun, and a lot of heart. A lot of our stories were not documented. We did not have social media. So if you want to expand your knowledge about what really went down back then, come see A Thousand Sweet Kisses at 54 Below.

[55:04] Nella Vera: Fantastic. Thank you again, Jay, so so much. It's been so delightful. Look forward to seeing you here in person. And to everybody at home, thanks for listening. Um again, 54below.org for tickets and information.

[55:19] Jai Rodriguez: And we look forward to seeing Jay there.

[55:21] Nella Vera: Thanks.

[55:22] Jai Rodriguez: Thank you so much for taking the time.

[55:26] Jai Rodriguez: You've been listening to the 54 Below Podcast, part of the Broadway Podcast Network.

[55:31] Jai Rodriguez: Subscribe and rate us on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast app.

[55:35] Jai Rodriguez: To find out more about our upcoming shows, visit us at 54below.org.