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[0:00] Robert Peterpaul: Hello, beautiful people. Welcome to The Art of Kindness, where we have compassionate conversations with artists from all areas of the entertainment industry who are using their voice to spread joy and make this big, spinning planet in the sky a better place to be. I'm Robert Peterpaul, and I'm so glad you're here!

[0:30] Robert Peterpaul: Because we need a little Christmas right this very minute. It's here! It's here! Merry Christmas week, my friends!

[0:46] Robert Peterpaul: First of all, I hope everybody is staying safe and well. I know it's a really busy travel week for people. And guess what? To make it a little bit brighter, we're going to be releasing some bonus episodes for y'all to enjoy as you're driving home for the holidays.

[1:00] Robert Peterpaul: While we have some really incredible guests coming your way right now, I'm here with quite the festive episode for you, as today's guest is Broadway performer and former Radio City Rockette Afra Hines.

[1:12] Robert Peterpaul: On Broadway, Afra was most recently seen in the musical Hadestown, where she understudied the role of Persephone. Afra is a veteran performer with eight Broadway credits to her name. Some of her favorites include Summer, the Donna Summer musical, Motown, and the original Broadway companies of In the Heights with Lin-Manuel Miranda, Shuffle Along with Audra McDonald, Brian Stokes Mitchell, Billy Porter and Joshua Henry, and Ghost, the musical.

[1:38] Robert Peterpaul: She also spent a year on the first national tour of Hamilton. Additionally, Afra was a Radio City Rockette for seven years, which we totally get into because this is a Christmas-themed episode.

[1:50] Robert Peterpaul: On screen, you can see Afra in the FX miniseries Fosse/Verdon. Not gonna lie, just went down a rabbit hole to see how to correctly pronounce Verdon. Is it Verdon? I don't know. I promise, I am a theater person, though. Oh!

[2:02] Robert Peterpaul: She can also be seen in Amazon's Mozart in the Jungle. And most recently, Afra was lighting up the screen in NBC's Annie Live!

[2:09] Robert Peterpaul: Before we play our interview together, I want to let you know that the tables were turned recently, and I sat in the guest chair for a wonderful interview with the publication Film Forums.

[2:19] Robert Peterpaul: If you head to film-forums.com, you can see our conversation, which centers on the Art of Kindness podcast, acting advice, and much more. Thank you to Rich and everyone at Film Forums for having me.

[2:31] Robert Peterpaul: Now, without further ado, please welcome the amazing Afra Hines.

[2:39] Afra Hines: Hi!

[2:51] Robert Peterpaul: Hi, Robert.

[2:53] Afra Hines: How are you?

[2:54] Robert Peterpaul: I'm good. How are you?

[2:56] Afra Hines: I'm good. You look so nice and cozy. I like your white sweater.

[2:59] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, thank you. Yeah, it's one of my faves.

[3:01] Robert Peterpaul: It's so nice. Thank you for taking the time today. It means a lot.

[3:04] Afra Hines: Yeah, I'm really excited. I was just, like, looking you up, and I was like, wait, I know this person. I've seen your really funny Instagram posts and stuff.

[3:13] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, really?

[3:14] Afra Hines: Yeah.

[3:16] Robert Peterpaul: They're so weird.

[3:18] Afra Hines: Yeah, I just have fun. I feel like, I don't know about you, but with the shutdown, I just started to do TikToks and try and stay creative in these random ways, and I can't stop. I think I'm addicted. I don't know.

[3:28] Robert Peterpaul: They're great. They really capture us all.

[3:31] Afra Hines: Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. Well, I am pumped to talk to you today, like I said, and I really appreciate it, because you have a show tonight, right?

[3:38] Afra Hines: No, I'm not in a show right now.

[3:40] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, you're not in Hadestown?

[3:41] Afra Hines: No, I left Hadestown in late October. So I took a leave of absence, and I was gonna go back, and then I decided it was a good time to step away, so here I am.

[3:53] Robert Peterpaul: That makes sense, because you're a new mom now, too, right?

[3:56] Afra Hines: Yeah, I had my daughter in June of 2020, like right smack dab in the middle of the pandemic.

[4:03] Robert Peterpaul: Wow.

[4:04] Afra Hines: It was like curfews, and it was, yeah, it was a crazy time.

[4:08] Robert Peterpaul: You're like, welcome to the world. Good thing you won't remember any of this.

[4:11] Afra Hines: Yeah.

[4:12] Robert Peterpaul: Well, congratulations on your daughter and also on Annie Live, which was such an amazing feat.

[4:19] Afra Hines: I'm such a huge fan of the live musicals, and I'm never, you know, it never ceases to amaze me how these things come together.

[4:25] Robert Peterpaul: How do you feel now that that's kind of behind you? It's been a couple weeks, right?

[4:28] Afra Hines: Yeah, I think it has been just a couple weeks, but it was a whirlwind, super exciting, super fun, different than anything I've done before.

[4:38] Afra Hines: But I've watched a lot of the lives, so it was really fun to like finally get to do one, and the team was incredible.

[4:46] Afra Hines: The cast was also, I remember like being in one of the early rehearsals being like, oh my gosh, I can't believe that I'm in this group of people.

[4:54] Afra Hines: Like everybody, there was no weak link. Every single person was incredible.

[4:59] Afra Hines: So that was really inspiring, and it's just totally different musicals for TV.

[5:05] Afra Hines: It's kind of a weird thing, but it was really fun.

[5:08] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, because I feel like to be on Broadway and in a big musical is its own, you know, special skill set. But then to mesh it with sort of a movie musical that also has the live element must be crazy because you're not playing in the back of the house, but it's still a big musical and there's cameras kind of in your face.

[5:24] Afra Hines: You've got to keep it very grounded, but then you're doing these big dance moves.

[5:27] Afra Hines: It kind of felt like tech rehearsal because we rehearsed for a long time and we got it all polished up. And then the cameras arrived and it was like, OK, this angle actually that pirouette doesn't look so great, so we're going to switch it.

[5:43] Afra Hines: So it felt like an attack where you change something in the afternoon and then you're performing it that night. It felt kind of like that. And also there were so many cameras.

[5:53] Afra Hines: That was the other crazy thing. There was like eight huge cameras.

[5:57] Afra Hines: And so anytime you have to cross around, you're like running behind or underneath. It was wild, but really fun. And I'm so like the whole team. I can't speak.

[6:07] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, that's like double choreo because you have your regular choreo and then you got to choreograph it around the cameras, which must be insane. Like you're saying, I can't even imagine.

[6:14] Afra Hines: And they only have like two days to get their blocking in. So we've been rehearsing for weeks without them.

[6:20] Afra Hines: And so we get sort of used to our travel. But then all of a sudden there's this giant rig in front of you and you have to figure out how to get to the other side in like a few seconds.

[6:32] Robert Peterpaul: You're like, wait a minute. You weren't there yesterday. Excuse me. So do you guys have everything planned? And then they come in and sort of put the camera movements around that. I mean, I'm sure the director is thinking, oh, a pose right here would be great. But is that just kind of how it comes together?

[6:47] Afra Hines: Well, so we had the director at rehearsals like watching and sort of he would walk around with his cell phone and sort of like plan the shots. That was really cool to see that process.

[6:58] Afra Hines: And then once we got in the space, like on the soundstage, he was there again with his camera. And he had like one other person because then there's stairs and things. So he has someone like sort of like walking with him.

[7:10] Afra Hines: And then the next time we see them, they're all like these giant robots, like huge cameras and like like one of those. What do they call them?

[7:21] Afra Hines: Extend. Oh, like a crane.

[7:24] Robert Peterpaul: Yes. Like a crane. All these huge pieces that before we just were like one had a body sort of walking around. You can't imagine like the, you know, the mass that's coming.

[7:36] Afra Hines: It's crazy.

[7:38] Robert Peterpaul: And in your head, you're thinking, I got to ignore them. The cameras aren't actually here. Don't look, don't look, don't look.

[7:44] Afra Hines: Wow, that's so cool. Well, I went back and I watched clips of you shining bright throughout the show. But you're never fully dressed without a smile, I feel like was a standout. And then your tap number in the NYC portion was a true standout.

[7:58] Afra Hines: That was incredible. You were so graceful and it seemed like you and the ensemble just really had such a wonderful chemistry.

[8:06] Afra Hines: I felt like as you're moving through all these different characters and scenes. So congratulations again.

[8:12] Robert Peterpaul: Thank you so much. When you get compliments like that, I'm really interested in compliments and the arts for some reason. So I always like to start out asking, how are you at taking compliments and receiving them?

[8:24] Afra Hines: That's such a good question. I feel like it depends honestly on how I feel about what they're complimenting. So like whether or not I believe them, like do I think I did a good job and therefore can I receive what they're saying? Or if I feel like it's not great, it's hard to accept compliments.

[8:48] Afra Hines: Yeah, I wish I was a little bit better at it, honestly.

[8:52] Robert Peterpaul: Well, I think that's healthy because it seems like you're judging yourself in a healthy way. I mean, we all judge ourselves, which can make it hard to receive that love. But at the end of the day, when you are an actor or a performer, you want to go out and have people say that was amazing. And you sort of duck by, you know, the stage door or whatever and meet these people. So it is really weird when we get compliments that then we kind of shy away from it. It's just I find it so strange.

[9:15] Afra Hines: And then, you know, you're like, oh, I love that sweater. And it's easy because you didn't make the sweater. So you're thinking, yes, I know it's really cozy.

[9:21] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, but it is it is really strange. Well, obviously, we're here today to talk about kindness, specifically within the arts. So just to start out on our journey together, I would love to know, what does kindness mean to you?

[9:34] Afra Hines: I think kindness is just allowing space for people to be their authentic selves or encouraging, not encouraging, being with someone as they are finding themselves or mirroring back to them how they want to see themselves.

[9:55] Afra Hines: Yeah. Or being curious about someone. That's also kindness, I think. Yeah.

[10:00] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I think that's beautiful. And being curious, I feel like being curious is pretty underrated, but it's kind of the point of life. I mean, if you're not interested and you don't want to keep learning, what are you doing?

[10:12] Afra Hines: Yeah. You're just sitting on the couch, which is also great, honestly. So I don't know what I'm talking about, but I think that's a beautiful definition.

[10:19] Robert Peterpaul: So looking back at your career, it was really interesting. And I know you've talked about this quite a bit growing up. I know you started dancing and then doing gymnastics at a young age. But you weren't really bitten by the theater bug until I think you saw Wicked, right?

[10:33] Afra Hines: That's right. Yeah. I so I'm originally from Florida, Miami, Florida. And so I didn't see a lot of theater. I saw I would watch a lot of PBS. So I saw like operas and things like that. But I don't. And my mom was good about taking me to see sort of like concert theater. But I didn't see like musicals until I was in high school in New York City and saw Wicked.

[10:58] Afra Hines: And I was just like, what is that? It's amazing.

[11:02] Robert Peterpaul: Was that the OG cast, Kristen and Adina, or you might not remember?

[11:05] Afra Hines: I don't know. I don't think so. I think it might have been like they'd been running for maybe like two years at that point. Not that it even matters because everyone, you know, that steps into that show is incredible. But I just think there's something. And you've you've had the opportunity to do that. Right. Be a part of an original Broadway production. There's something to that that's just so special.

[11:25] Afra Hines: I agree.

[11:29] Robert Peterpaul: This may be something I would want to do. Do you remember any acts of kindness that stand out along the way with people helping you as you're beginning your journey with dancing and performing?

[11:38] Afra Hines: Well, yeah. I mean, I had a bunch of really amazing teachers who could see how much I loved it and were encouraging in that way. It's hard. You know, I started dancing when I was, you know, like, three. So it's hard to...

[11:56] Robert Peterpaul: Wow.

[11:57] Afra Hines: Well, if you call it dance, it was like, I think they called it creative movement. But that's special that your parents let you do that. Because I feel like sometimes when we're starting out moving our bodies in weird ways, people can be like, hey, calm down, sit down.

[12:12] Afra Hines: Yeah. Yeah, no, my parents were super supportive, for sure. I definitely would not be here without them encouraging me.

[12:21] Robert Peterpaul: And now you're in such a special position, because now that you're a mom, are you looking back and seeing your parents through new eyes? And I'm sure there's different things about kindness coming up, which I think kindness is love, not to keep saying the buzzword. I feel like everyone's taking a shot every time I say kindness.

[12:36] Afra Hines: Yeah, definitely. Parenthood is a crazy ride. And it's sort of like, it's like trying to imagine what it's like on Mars. Like you've heard, you've seen photos, but you don't, you can't know. And that's how I feel about being a mom. It's like a whole nother planet that I did not know. It's wonderful. But yeah, it definitely is making me look at my childhood and my parents in a new way. And just the, I was thinking this the other day, I was carrying my daughter somewhere and my foot was hurting so much. And so I was sort of like limping along carrying her. And I was like, she doesn't know, she has no idea the sort of things that I'm doing because I love her so much. And then I was like, oh, yeah, and your mom, my mom did things like this for me, like in ways that we'll never even know. We have no idea. But they, I don't know, it just hit me specifically. That was limping.

[13:34] Robert Peterpaul: Wow. Were you limping just because of all the dancing and the movement in your body from Annie Live, I guess was your last thing?

[13:41] Afra Hines: Yeah, I've been having some, like joint pain. So I'm not really sure what it is, if it's just overuse, or if it's like something coming from me. I don't know.

[13:52] Robert Peterpaul: Show me your foot. Let's figure it out. I have no idea.

[13:55] Afra Hines: But it was just a particularly rough day. So but it's, I'm doing better today.

[14:02] Robert Peterpaul: How do you like take care of yourself? I guess when you're in a show too as a dancer, I think I am in awe of dancers. I mean, I would call myself a mover, maybe a strong mover. I don't know. But people that can dance and use their whole body when they're performing. I think it's such an amazing skill set. So in those quiet moments when you're in your dressing room, or you're resting between you pick up another Broadway show, there are certain things you do to take care of your body.

[14:25] Afra Hines: Yeah, well, so right now I'm in a break. I have from now until I think I start work again, in early February. So I'm really excited. And I've been going to class almost every day, like it feels so nice to have the time and space to like, go back to doing just the things that I love, you know, like, I, I wanted to be a performer. But I, like when I got back into the studio recently, I was like, Oh, yeah, this is why I need this space. It's a place where I feel the most comfortable. It's crazy. And I don't feel that anywhere else in my life. So I think that's really important. It's part of like a self-care thing is like finding that thing that feels like breathing to you or feels like therapy or, you know, whatever it is, finding that and it's not just good for your body, but good for your like heart and soul and everything.

[15:24] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, that's so well said. I think it's hard sometimes too, because you follow your passion and your dream and people are saying you got to put everything into it. Unlike other careers to be an artist, you have to, it has to be your whole life and you have to put yourself into it. And then all these little business things get into your head and can get in the way and make you maybe self-conscious and overthink things. So it's hard to stay back. And I think that's really cool that you get to take these breaks and go back to your center of why you really love doing it. Do you think now that you have a daughter and you're a mom and that's like a whole new dream? It takes a little bit of pressure off of the performance then? Although you're killing it. So I mean, I don't.

[16:05] Afra Hines: Yes and no. Like, yes, when I'm home, I definitely feel a separation of work and home that I never used to. It used to be like work all the time, always in my brain, always like, just like the main thing in my life. And I still feel the same like drive and desire to be good at what I'm doing. But when I'm home, it's like I'm able to like put it down in a way that I wasn't able to before. And so that's really nice. And also, you just don't have as much time to like ruminate on things. You have like a million other things to think about. So that's been, that's been good.

[16:45] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. Because you mentioned motherhood is almost like trying to imagine living on Mars. And I feel like in a lot of ways, maybe people starting out being on Broadway could be a little bit of a similar journey. I think you're eased into it once you've been auditioning for a while and working regionally, and then maybe, you know, you work your way. But now that you've done eight Broadway shows, correct, isn't it?

[17:07] Afra Hines: Yeah, I think yeah.

[17:08] Robert Peterpaul: Okay, I did count. It's fine. But you know, I'm in the theater. So I don't know if I can really count. So you're not a dancer. So you've been in the ensemble, you've been a swing, you've covered roles. Have you found one job to be particularly more challenging than the other? Or does it depend on the project?

[17:26] Afra Hines: I guess there's different. They can be challenging in different ways. So like some can be really challenging physically, just like the amount of energy needed to get through them. And then some can be challenging more emotionally, or I've had, you know, different workspaces behind, like backstage can be challenging, depending on a lot of things. So yeah, it'd be hard to say if there was like one.

[17:56] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I'm laughing because that's like an eloquent way to put it, depending on a lot of things backstage.

[18:02] Afra Hines: Or not an eloquent way to put it, yeah.

[18:03] Robert Peterpaul: No, I think you put it nicely. You didn't go too far there. But it is, I always find, you know, we're living our dream. And if you get to work, it's such a privilege that to have people that maybe make these experiences a little bit more difficult than they have to be is such a sad thing, which is why I want to have these conversations. I guess as a swing specifically, I've been a swing, and it was one of the hardest things I've ever done. You know, having all those tracks in your head, and then really the first time you get to do it is if you get to go on. With those instances, because I feel like the cast has to really lift you up, because they've done the show. Do you have any stories you can share about that? Because I think that's a big kindness thing.

[18:42] Afra Hines: Yes, I'm thinking about when I was doing Summer, the Donna Summer musical, and I had to go on as Disco Donna. And I think, I don't know if we were still in previews or we just opened, but like, it was early. Ariana rolled her ankle. And so I had to go on very underprepared. And I was just so nervous. Like, I think I was probably like physically shaking. And they called an emergency put in, because I'd never had rehearsal with the cast. So we had to do it. And I think it was like on a Wednesday morning. So people were pissed. So the energy was very just like, not good. And there was a couple of people who I really felt the kindness and support. And I could feel them like, yeah, no one wanted to be there that morning for this emergency put in.

But I could feel them like, being there for me. And it was so nice. And it doesn't take a lot. It made me think about how I'm lifting other people up in situations like that. And a lot of times, we can think good things about the person, or like wishing them well, or even being supportive in like our energy. But like, it takes so little to like step one step further and reach out a little bit more to make them feel loved and supported and capable. And, you know, such as it's such a scary thing. Swinging and understudying. It's like, yeah.

[20:19] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, yeah, it's nuts. I was a swing at a really great regional theater that's close to the city. I won't say the name. I don't know why. It was fine. But it was spelling bee. And there was only a male and a female swing. And we each had to know every single track. And we got one rehearsal. And it was like a weird, multiple personality show where we just went through the show, you know, running around. And I just remember the artistic director and people walking back and forth and kind of watching us. And I was so nervous and scared. But afterwards, the cast said, you know, we're here for you if you need new videos, or you need to talk to me. And it really does just change everything. So I think it's awesome that you brought up the fact too, that it's not big things. It doesn't take much. You just need to do really little things for people. And that's kindness.

[21:02] Afra Hines: Yeah, I had in that cast, I had one friend brought me tea, which doesn't sound like a big thing. But it was so nice. She like came to my dressing room with tea, and like gave me some encouragement. I was just so nice. And I had another friend who like while this like, tornado of chaos was going, like, wait, let me take a photo in your costume. Like, she thought, like, let me get this for you. And it was just so sweet.

[21:33] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, that is so sweet. And tea really helps, especially if it's the tea with the little inspiring message on the paper.

[21:37] Afra Hines: Yeah, I needed that. I needed that. Okay, so since it's Christmas time, I know it's been a while, but I would love to just pick your brain about being a Rockette. Because it's iconic, and it is the season. So where does being a Rockette, I guess, first of all, fall within your Broadway career? Was that toward the beginning was toward the beginning.

[21:55] Afra Hines: So I was actually a Rockette for seven years. So our seven seasons, which Wow, was seven years at that time. So I, I had, I'm trying to think my first year was 2004. So I was a Rockette. And then I got my Broadway show. And then I sort of like, went back and forth between Broadway shows and Radio City Rockette. Yeah, it was pretty crazy. For example, I was doing In the Heights on Broadway. And they let me take a leave of absence to go do the Christmas spectacular, which was so lovely of them to do. But I overlapped rehearsals for the Christmas show with In the Heights at night. And that was so hard, and also hard because I didn't have a day off because the day off at the theater was Monday and the day off at rehearsal was Sunday. So it was just like,

[22:58] Afra Hines: Oh, filled with adrenaline. You know, what was crazy was I, the physical part, I was young and I loved both things enough that the physical part was exhausting, but it wasn't terrible. I would get to the theater and ice my feet while I was doing my makeup. But no, but the harder thing was emotionally and just being like mentally tired.

[23:20] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. And did you want to do that because you loved being a Rockette? Because you're already in the heights.

[23:25] Afra Hines: I know I loved being a Rockette. It was being a Rockette. It's like my first long time, like real, you know, three month long gig. And I felt like it taught me so much about being a professional and how to get through a season like that because they do so many shows a week, it's crazy. So just like learning stamina and being in a group of women was really inspiring and like the preciseness and hitting your marks and knowing your blocking and like it was a great, great first job for me. So that's why I continue to go back year after year. And even now, every Christmas season, I'm like, oh, like should I maybe see if I can go back? I don't know, you know.

[24:16] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, you could just whip it out at the family Christmas party, start doing some kicks in the corner.

[24:23] Afra Hines: I feel like there is such a prestige to being a Rockette. And whenever I've seen interviews with them or just, you know, even the way you guys stand and have performed at the Thanksgiving Day Parade or whatever it is, it's almost like not politicians. I don't know how to describe it. There's such a grace in the way. It's almost like you're a representation of Christmas.

[24:41] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. And New York, it feels like it's classic New York City. Do they talk to you guys about that and how you're supposed to present yourselves?

[24:49] Afra Hines: Yeah. I mean, I don't know. It's been years since I've worked there. But when I was there, we would have a media training day where we would do like mock interviews. And, you know, they have talking points. And, you know, like any show has talking points that they want to get across to potential audience members. So that was really cool, too, to get that training for free because it's something I would not get anywhere else, I don't think.

[25:17] Robert Peterpaul: No, that's awesome. Do you think there's anything surprising about being a Rockette that people wouldn't necessarily think, you know, when they're watching the show?

[25:26] Afra Hines: I guess a better way to phrase that would be what's the most surprising thing about being a Radio City Rockette? I think people are often surprised that we do so many shows in a week. Or the other thing people always ask me, like, do we wear different size heels to make everyone look the same height? And no, everyone's wearing the same size heel. No, there's 80 Rockettes. That's sometimes surprising to people because there's no day off. There's two casts. There's 36 in the line plus four swings times two. It's such a special show. You know, when I worked at 30 Rockettes right there and I used to go out and if I was lucky and I timed it right, I would see them loading in the live animals.

[26:06] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, yeah. What is that like working with them?

[26:13] Afra Hines: They're a little bit smelly. OK, wow. All right. But no, I loved it. And they would the camels would be like right in there's a little I don't know what it used to be. Maybe like a quick change closet or something. Not closet room, obviously, because they're camels, but it's quite close to the stage. So we would like see them as we're going in and out. And that was always fun for me. And I always wish so. There's the nativity scene at the end and some people get to hold animals. I always wish that I would be one of them, but I never got to hold an animal ever in the seven years.

[26:48] Robert Peterpaul: No, I'm thinking maybe you do have to go back then just for that.

[26:52] Afra Hines: Yeah, just one night, you know, give me a goat. Yes, please. That's so cool and such a unique thing. But, you know, with the Rockettes and with all the ensemble work you've done, I feel like it really requires people to be in sync and on the same page. Otherwise things could go terribly wrong. So throughout your career, have you noticed anything that makes a really great ensemble compared to, I guess, the shows where that vibe isn't there?

[27:18] Afra Hines: Yeah, I think it takes someone who's got an eye for detail. And, you know, I think, yes, some of that is like a person's, that's the word I'm looking for, just their personality. But a lot of things, it's just has to do with someone showing you how to do it. Like I remember when I joined Wicked, they hired me first as a universal swing and it was my Broadway debut and I was 19 and I had no idea.

[27:46] Robert Peterpaul: Wait, that's so cool. I didn't realize that was your Broadway debut. And that was the show that made you want to do theater.

[27:52] Afra Hines: Yeah, yeah. Whoa. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, it is. It's a fun story. But yeah, so I joined that cast as a universal swing and I didn't like someone had told me what that meant, but I didn't know. It's again like another planet. Right. So I got there and I had no idea what I was doing. And it took a friend of mine, Laurieann, she like took me under her wing and she was like, OK, so you have to have to write the tracks down. You have to how are you going to remember them if you don't write them down? So she showed me how to make diagrams and write down the different tracks. And so that was incredibly kind of her to do. But yeah, so things like that that probably a lot of people can do, but it just takes someone sort of showing them.

And I think a lot of times when you get into a Broadway show or Broadway company, there is not a ton of that going on where someone is like, oh, you're new. Let me show you how people sort of just assume that you're ready and that you know what's going on, when a lot of times if it's your first thing, you have no way of knowing.

[28:53] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. A lot of people don't want to have these conversations. Everybody likes to pretend that they know what's going on. But then as soon as it's been maybe a couple of weeks and you have these whispers in the corner, you realize we're on the same page. Everyone's like, oh, no, I felt that way, too.

[29:07] Afra Hines: Yeah. Yeah. You know who's really good at that is Brian Stokes Mitchell.

[29:12] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, yeah. He's really great at like welcoming new Broadway debuts.

[29:18] Afra Hines: We did Shuffle Along together and I think he bought like White Orchids for all the debuts. It was so lovely. It's just really sweet.

[29:28] Robert Peterpaul: That's really sweet. Speaking of these luminaries that you've gotten to work with, you know, with Annie Live, we'll take Annie Live that we touched on before. You were with Taraji P. Henson, Harry Connick Jr., Nicole Scherzinger, Megan Hilty. I mean, Titus, Burgess, the list goes on. So when you're working with these heavy hitters, I know you don't get starstruck. And I actually identify with that. I don't really either, depending on the person. I'm just awkward no matter what. So it doesn't really matter, honestly. But did you learn anything working with these stars on this project that you think you'll carry with you?

[30:02] Afra Hines: Yes. I mean, every single one of them is incredible. I was really blown away by Nicole's work ethic. Like, I feel like I'm a hard worker. But to see someone who you think of as like a star who sort of like maybe doesn't have to work so hard. She was like drilling things over and over and over. And I just that was really cool to see that it doesn't matter where you are in your career. If you want to be the best you can be, you have to be really working at it.

[30:36] Robert Peterpaul: So I was really inspired by that. Harry Connick Jr. is so charming, like just so nice. Like, anytime he came into a room, would like come say hello to every single person. And that is just, again, like you don't expect a star to come over and like say hello. Or he would be walking past you and he just like put his fist out to give you a fist bump. It just makes you feel like you're like friends and like you're like in with the, you know, it's just, it was really sweet. And the way Titus is so funny and so brilliant and Megan, too. They're just like incredible. But seeing the way that Titus would like talk with the tech people or the directors and sort of like just his way of communicating and getting information and sharing what he needs. But in a just totally respectful way, that was really cool.

[31:34] Afra Hines: Yeah, I mean, everybody was just so brilliant. It was really a treat to see them all.

[31:39] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, that's such a unique skill to be able to learn to vocalize what you need or I just I guess to identify it. And then as an actor, you know, to actually speak up and say that. I mean, I've done shows where you think, oh, the number one on the call sheet or the lead can maybe have these conversations. But it's not true because we're all working together and to be able to put it out there is hard.

[32:01] Afra Hines: Yeah. And also him doing it makes space for everyone to feel like they can, you know, like it's showing. But also I've seen it the other way where someone will an actor, a star maybe will have a request. But it's sort of like comes from this like tight, like nervous or angry or, you know, that sort of energy. And seeing the way Titus was just like it was beautiful. And that's what I hope for myself.

[32:33] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. We're all just people that we should be able to approach each other as, you know, people to people. Did you guys already start rehearsals with Jane? And then Megan came in because I remember reading about that.

[32:41] Afra Hines: Right. We had so we hadn't had any the cast, like the ensemble hadn't rehearsed with her. I think she came in. They did a table read early on, but then she was filming something else for the first couple of weeks. So she wasn't even in the building with us. So I just saw her that one day that they did the table read. So I think they were like for the first couple of weeks, the ensemble and the principal cast were rehearsing pretty separately. They were working on their scenes and stuff. But, yeah, it did seem surprised that last minute to us, too. And Megan was so fantastic. Like the way she was able to just jump in like that. And she's a sweetheart as well. Super kind and friendly and funny.

[33:28] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, that's awesome. Are the rehearsals similar to a Broadway show? You'd get everything in your body and then you work with the cameras or was there something that surprised you?

[33:36] Afra Hines: The thing that surprised me most was just the space, like the way there's no front. But it wasn't like being in the round. It was like now you're facing this way and now that was new to me, but fun. But also like a little bit confusing.

[33:49] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I was thinking of you guys, like the cameras are running up the stairs and in the mansion. And then I'm thinking, oh, my gosh, it's all flipped. And you can kind of see that must be trippy.

[34:01] Afra Hines: Yeah. And like sometimes doing scenes with our backs to the audience the whole time because the cameras now facing a different direction was strange. But yeah, it was a cool experience.

[34:27] Robert Peterpaul: Welcome back to The Art of Kindness. I'm your host, Robert Peterpaul, and today we have the incredible Afra Hines with us. Afra, it's so great to have you here!

[34:42] Afra Hines: Thank you for having me, Robert! I'm excited to be here.

[34:54] Robert Peterpaul: You have such an impressive background, from being a Rockette to your Broadway credits. Can you tell us a bit about your journey in the performing arts?

[35:07] Afra Hines: Absolutely! I started dancing at a young age and eventually found my way to Broadway. Being a Rockette was a dream come true, especially performing in the Christmas Spectacular at Radio City. It was such a magical experience.

[35:19] Robert Peterpaul: That sounds amazing! What was it like to perform in such a high-energy show?

[35:29] Afra Hines: It was exhilarating! The energy from the audience is infectious, and being part of such a talented group of women was inspiring. We worked hard, but it was all worth it when we saw the smiles on people's faces.

[35:39] Robert Peterpaul: Speaking of energy, how do you take care of your body as a Broadway dancer?

[35:59] Afra Hines: It's crucial to maintain a healthy lifestyle. I focus on nutrition, hydration, and regular exercise. Stretching and recovery are also key, especially after long performances. Listening to my body is essential.

[36:09] Robert Peterpaul: That's great advice! You've worked with some incredible people in the industry. Can you share any acts of kindness you've experienced from fellow performers?

[36:19] Afra Hines: Absolutely! One of the most memorable moments was when Brian Stokes Mitchell reached out to me during a tough time. He offered support and encouragement, reminding me that we’re all in this together. It really meant a lot.

[36:39] Robert Peterpaul: It's wonderful to hear stories like that. Kindness truly makes a difference in our industry.

[36:49] Afra Hines: It really does! We all face challenges, and having that support system is invaluable.

[36:59] Robert Peterpaul: You've been in so many amazing productions. Do you have a favorite role or show that stands out to you?

[37:09] Afra Hines: Each role has its own special place in my heart, but I loved being part of "Hadestown." The music and storytelling are so powerful. It was an honor to understudy the role of Persephone.

[37:19] Robert Peterpaul: "Hadestown" is such a beautiful show! What was your experience like working on that production?

[37:29] Afra Hines: It was incredible! The cast and crew were so talented and supportive. The music is hauntingly beautiful, and the themes of love and sacrifice resonate deeply with audiences.

[37:39] Robert Peterpaul: It's clear that you have a passion for your craft. How do you stay motivated and inspired in such a competitive industry?

[37:49] Afra Hines: I remind myself why I started performing in the first place. The joy of storytelling and connecting with people keeps me going. I also find inspiration in everyday life and the kindness I see around me.

[37:59] Robert Peterpaul: That's a beautiful perspective. As we wrap up, what message of kindness would you like to share with our listeners?

[38:09] Afra Hines: I encourage everyone to spread kindness wherever you go. It can be as simple as a smile or a compliment. You never know how much it can brighten someone's day.

[38:19] Robert Peterpaul: Thank you, Afra! Your words are truly inspiring. It's been a pleasure having you on the show.

[38:29] Afra Hines: Thank you for having me, Robert! It's been a joy.

[38:39] Robert Peterpaul: And to our listeners, thank you for tuning in to The Art of Kindness. Remember to spread positivity and kindness in your own lives. Happy holidays!