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[0:06] Robert Peterpaul: Hello, beautiful people. Welcome to the Art of Kindness, where we have compassionate conversations with artists from all areas of the entertainment industry who are using their voice to spread joy and make this big spinning planet in the sky a better place to be.

[0:21] Robert Peterpaul: I'm Robert Peterpaul, and I'm so glad you're here.

[0:36] Robert Peterpaul: It's the final episode.

[0:48] Robert Peterpaul: Hello, friends. I hope you're enjoying the holiday season. I call this week in between Christmas and New Year's the holiday season because it's always a weird in-between week, and obviously I'm not ready to admit that the holidays are reaching an end. I'm also not ready to admit that season one of this podcast is coming to an end. I can't believe it. But we have reached the final episode of the Art of Kindness' inaugural season, our grand finale. 31 episodes. Wow. 31 might seem like an odd number to end with, but hey, there are 31 days in January, and you know what? Odd numbers don't get enough time to shine. As you know, I'm new to the podcast producing world, so I don't even know if I need to do seasons, but it feels right to bow out with the year changing. I think I'll do so every New Year's. But who knows? I don't know. Don't hold me to it. So we're going to take a brief hiatus and then come back with a jam-packed, extra kind, incredible season two!

[1:46] Robert Peterpaul: But before we get all sappy with see you later and goodbyes, we have a phenomenal episode for you today. Not only is an amazing guest waiting to just give you all the knowledge and wonderful stories, but we have an incredible post-interview surprise that I think you'll love. So make sure to hang in there for your final 2021 kindness tip of the week. Today's interview truly has the makings of an AOK season finale. It's got rants and tangents, it's got tons of kindness, which, you know, is a key ingredient. It's got Dolly Parton. I also think I laughed the most with this person than any other interview, not that they all weren't lovely, and I probably was silently giggling throughout all of them because I'm a giggler. But this person was just a bundle of joy to speak with. I mean, that's being around someone in these days, right? If you're on Zoom with them, you're pretty much in the same room. Today's guest is Broadway star Lesli Margherita.

[2:43] Robert Peterpaul: Lesli is an Olivier Award-winning performer who earned the aforementioned award on the West End in Zorro. She made her Broadway debut in the original cast of Matilda in 2013, getting LOUD as the iconic and devilishly dazzling Mrs. Wormwood. More recently, Lesli appeared on Broadway in Dames at Sea, and then off-Broadway in the one-woman show Who's Holiday, where she played a grown-up Cindy Lou Who. She also killed it in the off-Broadway musical Emojiland, where she played the princess emoji. Duh. She's got tons of incredible credits on screen as well, from starting out in FAME LA to the new movie The Many Saints of Newark to her upcoming role in The Fairly OddParents reboot, which I cannot wait to see.

We discuss all this, her unique childhood growing up on a cattle ranch, the best piece of advice she's ever received, and it's a good one. Her self-tape audition hack, where she sends a little notes. Well, I don't want to spoil it, and so much more. I could have talked to Lesli all day. Remember to stay tuned afterward for your kindness tip with a very special guest who okay may or may not be my fiancé Cassie. Without further ado, please welcome my friend, the lovely Lesli Margherita.

[4:12] Lesli Margherita: Hello!

[4:14] Lesli Margherita: I have like a bright light behind me, but it's not really video, right?

[4:19] Robert Peterpaul: No, no, it's all good. You look like a glowing angel, honestly.

[4:22] Lesli Margherita: I look like an angel.

[4:26] Lesli Margherita: Oh, the Christmas tree is up, I see.

[4:28] Lesli Margherita: It's uh well, it's been up for like a year.

[4:33] Robert Peterpaul: That's honestly smart. That's the way I usually like to play it. Kind of it's kind of like a corner tree that changes with whatever season it is.

[4:43] Lesli Margherita: So yeah, orange lights for Halloween.

[4:46] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, yeah, we'll we'll kind of do whatever. No, it is so wonderful to see you, and I'm not gonna make you I won't make you sit here while I do a really long raggy and god no, I can't I can't.

[4:56] Lesli Margherita: Oh my god, I can't. It makes me barf.

[4:58] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I don't like to do that because I know not that mine would be as wonderful as yours, but I know I would hate that, so I usually know with guests. So uh thank you. I normally ask people, I'm like, please don't, I can't, I don't want to hear it.

[5:09] Lesli Margherita: I really but it that's what makes you great because you're humble, but you're also very impressive.

[5:17] Robert Peterpaul: Well, this is interesting because I do I always like to start out asking people how they are at taking compliments, because I feel like when you work in the arts and you're in the public eye, you tend to get a lot of them and you want them, but then it feels really awkward, right?

[5:30] Lesli Margherita: It's awkward.

[5:31] Lesli Margherita: Yeah. I mean I I get both because I feel like people always think they can say anything to me. Like I won't care. So I get both compliments and not compliments. And just all the time or like random things. And I think it's because people think I just don't give a crap but I I do so um but for some reason I get all I get them both.

[5:51] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[5:51] Lesli Margherita: But uh compliments are always lovely but I'm so awkward. I'm always like no no well let me pay you one right now I really do think you are just such a wonderful performer. I'm such a big fan of you on stage and also off stage.

[6:06] Lesli Margherita: I mean the way you that's better.

[6:08] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah you really make it your mission to empower people and lift people up and I'm so grateful that we're in an industry where you exist and that you can be a role model for people.

[6:18] Lesli Margherita: Thank you. That's that's the best compliment I mean you know talent is subjective but kindness I think is not and so it's important to to always be kind and that's the best compliment to hear when people think you are kind so you do exude kindness.

[6:34] Robert Peterpaul: Oh I remember you came you came on a show I worked on build series and you did a split on stage first of all with a CutterSlam.

[6:42] Lesli Margherita: I did yeah I did I don't know if you blacked out I blacked out watching it it was amazing.

[6:46] Robert Peterpaul: Oh no that was so fun I loved that show so fun.

[6:49] Lesli Margherita: Yeah and you were just so kind to everybody I I love it like I'm always shocked when anybody wants to talk to me so I hope you won't be shocked for long because you have a massive fan base and we are here to talk today about kindness. So I I would love to know what does kindness mean to you?

[7:04] Lesli Margherita: To me, kindness is a no-brainer. So it it I don't know what it means to me. It has always been ingrained in me to be kind and grateful. And I don't understand why you would be anything other than kind. So I'm not sure what it means to me because it is I'm very lucky that it is inherently part of not only myself, but the people that I surround myself with. So I'm not sure what it means to me. I think it's just being being a good person. And and I I don't I don't see any reason why kindness can't exist. And I'm not saying that I haven't not been unkind sometimes. I think in everybody's life you there are those moments where it happens. But whenever I have been unkind, it I immediately clock it and go, oh, I'm so sorry. That was terrible. You know, but I think I think especially in in our business of of show, uh unkindness uh rears its ugly head quite often. So to me it's just being a good person and and realizing that everybody's just trying their best.

[8:14] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I think that's a beautiful way to put it because it is a hard thing to define. It's something that I think is in all of us, you know, humankind is the first.

[8:22] Lesli Margherita: So human kind, yeah, I would hope so. Sometimes it feels like it's not, but I try to find it in everybody. I feel like the people that it's not forefront in are usually the people that aren't kind to themselves.

[8:35] Lesli Margherita: Oh, completely. I think the people that are the most unkind are the most unhappy with themselves.

[8:41] Robert Peterpaul: Absolutely. I and I encounter that again, especially, you know, I hate to harp on our business, but there are a lot of people.

[8:47] Lesli Margherita: No, that's why we're here.

[8:48] Robert Peterpaul: It's a lot of unhappy people. And quite often people go into our business because they're unhappy and because they're seeking applause or approval. And and so I think once they get that from an outside source, their hole is is is filled a little bit. And so they think they can be unkind. Because I don't know, it it's often people feel like they're owed something, or it's always the most unhappy people that I find are the most unkind. And and that's what I have to remember when someone is unkind to me. I have to remember that they're going through something that has nothing to do with me.

[9:22] Lesli Margherita: Yeah. How do you handle those moments though where someone isn't kind to you?

[9:26] Robert Peterpaul: Those are so hard to navigate.

[9:28] Lesli Margherita: It's really hard.

[9:29] Lesli Margherita: Yeah, it's very hard because I'm Italian.

[9:32] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, same.

[9:33] Lesli Margherita: So I I have like my hands are moving under the table. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. My first instinct is to is to attack, especially if somebody who's unkind about a friend of mine or somebody that is close to me. My first instinct is to maim.

[9:51] Robert Peterpaul: But I buzz just not the musical.

[9:54] Lesli Margherita: Then not not the musical. No.

[9:57] Robert Peterpaul: Rather.

[9:58] Lesli Margherita: Um, but I I that could be, yeah.

[10:02] Robert Peterpaul: Um, but then you know, immediately it's replaced with the uh I get myself together. And I really do have to remind myself that it's not about me whenever someone is unkind. It's truly not about me. It's something they're going through. And to this day, I have to remind myself that it's not me, it's not me, it's not me. I mean, you know, if I'm if I'm a butt to somebody, then it is about me. But but most uh most often when someone's unkind, it's really all about them.

[10:36] Lesli Margherita: You own it, you said, which is really cool, and it's all you can do.

[10:39] Robert Peterpaul: I I really try to, and I apologize often. I apologize too much sometimes, but I if I think I've offended somebody or think I've said something awkward, I will apologize. Because it's also hard, you know. I have a uh big sense of humor and I'm very sarcastic, and and that's often taken for bitchy, which is not what I want. But but depending on where you're coming from, I think if you're already in that mood looking for a fight or something, you'll take my humor as offensive or not like offensive. You know what I mean? Like I think I think that's tough too. So I'm I'm always apologizing. Like, no, no, no, I didn't mean I mean that I'm just okay.

[11:22] Lesli Margherita: Majority of the time, I bet you people are not even offended. I find I'm I'm saying sorry, and people are like, for what?

[11:27] Robert Peterpaul: Well, I don't know what you're doing.

[11:28] Lesli Margherita: I know, I know, yeah. I I do that too. I bet that happens to you, because you do tend to lead with kindness, I feel like in my experience.

[11:34] Robert Peterpaul: I hope so. I try. And from what I hear, yeah, you're just you have a lovely reputation, so you're fine.

[11:36] Lesli Margherita: You're fine.

[11:40] Lesli Margherita: That's honestly, like that to me is the ultimate compliment that that I that people think I have a good reputation or that I that I'm spoken of kindly.

[11:50] Lesli Margherita: That's the best credit I think I could ever have in my career. And I hope that it stays that way.

[11:57] Robert Peterpaul: I'm sure it will. And I also feel like people feel like they can say whatever they want to you because you've achieved that best friend, very comfortable relationship with the public, which is also really hard to do.

[12:09] Lesli Margherita: People don't mind, except when they when they say weird things to me that that are not so nice to me, or backhanded, you know, just because they think like, oh, she won't care.

[12:18] Robert Peterpaul: I'm like, you're like, well, let me go to your office and stand over you at the computer and just tell you you're doing a shitty job.

[12:25] Lesli Margherita: It's terrible.

[12:26] Lesli Margherita: Yeah. Or when things like I often say things on Twitter that are then, you know, it's hard on social media because I'm not talking. And so I'll write something and leave the computer and come back. And it's like thousands of people have misunderstood it and turned it into something that it wasn't. And then it's just it's very difficult, I I find the internet to be because I love Twitter, but you're it it it's taken the wrong way so often because you're not hearing it come out of my head.

[12:57] Lesli Margherita: What I find lately is the unkindness has turned into so much anger that I find people have, especially online, and they're looking for something to be angry about.

[13:12] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[13:13] Lesli Margherita: Some of these things are incredibly justified, but some of these things are just nitpicky people looking to be angry about things. And I'm like, there are so many more important things for you to put your anger towards. Maybe let's cool it on the musical theater Discord.

[13:30] Robert Peterpaul: And I know you're like when I'm sitting there on Twitter. I don't remember signing up for Twitter, like, oh, I have to be perfect on here every second and say the right thing. It's rough.

[13:40] Lesli Margherita: It's rough out there. And most of the unkind comments come from younger people, which is very disappointing.

[13:46] Robert Peterpaul: I know.

[13:47] Lesli Margherita: I do feel bad for younger people that are growing up in this world of TikTok and all social media. And I mean, it's hard enough as an adult to navigate that. And I remember like during Matilda, I was so protective of those kids and things that were said on the internet. And I don't want children, but kids that I perform with become like they're my kids. And I just would get so angry that this vitriol was coming for them anonymously, and they're 10 years old. I can't even imagine growing up with that.

[14:20] Robert Peterpaul: I can't. There's no way.

[14:21] Lesli Margherita: Well, speaking of growing up, something I learned about you when I was doing research that I didn't know, and you've talked about is that you grew up on a cattle ranch in California.

[14:29] Robert Peterpaul: Yes.

[14:30] Lesli Margherita: That is so unique.

[14:31] Robert Peterpaul: I know. Crazy, right?

[14:32] Lesli Margherita: My mom's family were cattle ranchers, our cattle ranchers. And so I grew up on this giant cattle ranch. There was nobody around. It was just our house and cows and the barn and horses. And so I was a total ranch girl. And we lived there until I was 12. They sold the ranch and now it's home. Now my family home is on what was the ranch. But yeah, I grew up completely on my own because I'm the youngest of four, but I'm the youngest by a lot, like a decade. So my sisters were out to college when I was already, you know, and I was like seven or eight. So I was kind of on my own, and I really think that was the best thing for me creatively. I would just put on shows with the cows.

[15:20] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, what was your favorite show? Like what got the best reviews with the cows?

[15:28] Lesli Margherita: You know, I used to, the cows, there was a septic tank that had great sound. So if I tap danced on top of the septic tank and the cows were behind me, I used to sing. When I was little, Annie was like obviously the big thing that I wanted to do. But I remember singing, I would run up the hill, Sound of Music all the time. That was, oh yeah, I still do that. But we were in Vermont recently.

[15:52] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, I mean, yeah.

[15:53] Lesli Margherita: Yeah, I did that at the actual Von Trapp place. It was fine, you know.

[15:56] Robert Peterpaul: There we go.

[16:01] Lesli Margherita: That's amazing. I used to do Gypsy a lot with the cows.

[16:03] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, that makes sense with, uh, I have a new cow, a moo cow that, yeah, yeah, that was a big one.

[16:10] Lesli Margherita: Oh, I love that. Then I moved off the ranch and became like not ranchy at all. I still love like country stuff, like I love country music and blah blah blah, but I became very like kind of princessy and not ranchy.

[16:22] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, like now I just eat ranch, it's fine.

[16:24] Lesli Margherita: Yeah. You're like an inverse Hallmark movie. It's like you left the ranch.

[16:30] Robert Peterpaul: But I do feel like people that grow up around animals and working with animals tend to be a bit more empathetic in a lot of ways. Do you think you saw a lot of kindness on the ranch growing up? Are there any lessons you remember that you could...

[16:40] Lesli Margherita: Oh my gosh, I completely saw kindness. And I think growing up, you know, I was the school bus would come and I would have to walk down this really long road. My mom would walk down and get on the school bus. And I remember kids would just moo at me because of the cows and everything. And I remember being very young and just building up this wall of I'm not gonna let this affect me. And I was a weird kid, like I was already, you know, some of us still are and I know I'm still a weird cat. And so I would just be funny and, you know, so that they couldn't laugh at me, they would laugh with me. And I think that was very formative for me, like being a funny actor. But I did think growing up around the animals, you know, you have to take care of things.

And even being on the ranch, you had to take care of everything, not just the animals, but you know, my dad was growing corn and, well, you know, it was crazy stuff. So yeah, definitely the animals. I always, always, always had animals and have doggies. Now I have a doggy now but Stewie Dewey, it's so cute. He's asleep, he's like, oh my gosh, you're iconic. Hi, so cute, I woke you up. I know, I'm very sorry.

[17:44] Robert Peterpaul: He's like, I need a dog.

[17:44] Lesli Margherita: Yeah, I really need a dog. Leslie, it's the best thing in the world. I'm looking at nothing. I'm like, oh, is that my dog? We okay, so we had a hamster. We got a hamster as soon as quarantine started. My fiancé and I looked at each other and we were like, we need an animal. And we went to PetSmart down the street. They know who we are. We go in there once a month and we look at the animals and we stare at the cages and we ask to hold every single animal and then we walk out with nothing. So they're like, oh, it's this couple. So we walk in and this hamster comes up to the glass and it's twerking and we were like, that's the one. So we got this beautiful hamster named Butter, but hamsters only last two years.

[17:44] Robert Peterpaul: All right, that's it.

[17:44] Lesli Margherita: Yeah, not to bring me an animal. I mean, oh no, I mean, I've gone through a dog before Stewie and it's the worst thing when your animal dies. It's terrible. It's terrible. It's the worst, but oh, it's so bad. Yeah, it teaches you a lot. But yeah, I definitely learned empathy and kindness from animals. You know what I have to say though where I think I truly learned kindness was from the Muppets and Sesame Street.

[19:01] Robert Peterpaul: I was, that's literally my next question.

[19:03] Lesli Margherita: Your love for the Muppets started as a child then.

[19:03] Lesli Margherita: Oh my gosh, I mean, I would say five or six. I think I was five. I had a Miss Piggy cake. It was definitely very, very early. Sesame Street was it for me. Like I am still, I'm still obsessed with Sesame Street and the Muppets.

[19:22] Robert Peterpaul: Oh yeah, they're doing such amazing things right now.

[19:24] Lesli Margherita: Oh, they do. They have can always since the beginning done incredible things, have always been inclusive. And I really think that kids who grow up with Sesame Street and, you know, my mom would be sewing and just sit me in front of the TV and that's all we watch, Sesame Street and Electric Company. But Sesame Street was like, and the Muppets. And I truly think that I learned empathy and compassion and kindness. And I mean everything that seems to be in the world now making people angry was never an issue for me growing up. Like Sesame Street and the Muppets were always so diverse and it was just, it was a no-brainer for me. And I truly think that kids who grow up with that have a better set of tools than those who don't. And I'm so happy that it's still around.

I'm bummed that the Muppet Show, because when I was little it was a weekly show, you know, the original Muppet Show. And I just went back and watched all of them. Oh, that's so fun now on Disney. And you know, they hit differently as an adult. It's like Looney Tunes. You watch it now, you're like, what?

[20:29] Robert Peterpaul: Um, but yeah, I definitely think that was a huge, huge part of how I treat people.

[20:35] Lesli Margherita: Yeah, I so agree because they had such diverse looking characters but then they were also diverse in personality.

[20:41] Robert Peterpaul: Totally.

[20:41] Lesli Margherita: You know, totally. I know you really relate or, well, I don't know about relate, but I know you worship Miss Piggy.

[20:47] Robert Peterpaul: I do.

[20:47] Lesli Margherita: And I do feel like in looking at your career there's a lot of parallels. You've gotten to play a ton of really larger than life characters that have become iconic from Mrs. Wormwood in Matilda to Cindy Lou Who.

[20:59] Robert Peterpaul: Very Miss Piggy-like.

[21:01] Lesli Margherita: Yeah. Which is so cool because that's my kind of humor, that larger than life, really energetic, but rooted in love kind of character.

[21:09] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[21:10] Lesli Margherita: You always ground them so beautifully.

[21:12] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, thanks.

[21:12] Lesli Margherita: Which I've heard you say is because you make sure to take them seriously as people.

[21:17] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[21:18] Lesli Margherita: Yeah, they're all people. They're not Muppets. So how do you empathize with your characters when you don't necessarily agree with them?

[21:23] Lesli Margherita: It's hard. I do play a lot of morally challenged characters. And you have to find the good in them. You have to find like even somebody like Mrs. Wormwood, who's a terrible mother and a terrible person, there were things about her that I loved and I wish I had in my personality, which was this just complete acceptance of self and complete just abashed like love me or leave me. I don't care. And I wish I had more of that. And so things like that I had to gravitate towards. Not the way she treated her child, but the love of herself and how she lived life. So you find those things, and then that's what you have to kind of expound on. And those are the things you have to find something that you love.

Even if you're playing a despicable person, there has to be something that you humanize about them. Otherwise they are just a cartoon character and rah, you know, like it's not interesting. It's not fun to watch, it's too much, it's not interesting. And I love playing flawed characters. I really do. It's way more interesting to me. You know, growing up I was so bummed I would never be the ingenue, but now I'm like, oh, I'm so happy.

[22:37] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[22:42] Lesli Margherita: Yeah, it's much more complex.

[22:44] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I feel like Cindy Lou Who had a lot of issues to work through. And I from Who's Holiday, I'm so bummed I didn't get to actually see it live, but it is online.

[22:54] Lesli Margherita: Oh yeah, they put it on. I hope that we do it again live, maybe next year.

[22:59] Robert Peterpaul: I hope so because it was truly the hardest thing I've ever done. It's a one-person show. I write it and it's all in rhyme like Who speak. So I couldn't mess up a line. I did many times. It was the hardest thing I've ever done and not having anyone else on stage. But it ran the gamut of emotions. That was definitely I think I'm the most proud of that show because I think people came in expecting an hour and a half of just body funny, but it wasn't. It was funny, but then you find out this person is so sad and had the hardest life and you go through all these ups and downs with her. And that's definitely a girl who made terrible choices in life and that was all about somebody who is reconciling their choices and how do they move forward from that.

And I found that incredibly beautiful to play because we all do that. We all have that happens to us and we have to keep going, have to move forward. So I loved playing her and yeah, I hope I get to revisit her someday.

[24:06] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I mean if I had that in my brain I would whip it out at a holiday party.

[24:09] Lesli Margherita: You know, I don't remember. It's so funny. I packed it in there and they would have to push me out on stage every night. My stage manager and my dresser, we were like a teeny little crew and they would just push me out there through my little trailer door because it was terrifying. But once I was out there, it was fine.

[24:28] Robert Peterpaul: I think once it was over my brain just went because I watched it last year when BCEFA put it up online and I had no recollection of it. It was like watching a different person.

[24:41] Lesli Margherita: Wow.

[24:41] Robert Peterpaul: I had no, it was so weird. It was like my brain just went, okay, put it away. It was very strange.

[24:48] Lesli Margherita: Maybe it's like what they say happens when someone has a baby, they just forget the pain.

[24:51] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[24:52] Lesli Margherita: Afterwards.

[24:54] Robert Peterpaul: It must be like that.

[24:55] Lesli Margherita: I don't know. I don't know where that came from.

[24:57] Robert Peterpaul: But you nailed it. And did you feel like after that, when you went into your next project or show, were you much more appreciative to have other people to bounce things off of?

[25:04] Lesli Margherita: Oh my gosh, yes. Incredibly. And you know, I never take that for granted. You know, the good thing about Who's Holiday is, and many one-person shows are the audience is the other character. And so because I had audience interaction, that was also terrifying because that was then a cast member that I had no control over, or a cast mate that I have no control over, which was frightening every night. And I'm not great with that. So I would often pick just the wrong person. So I ended up having like stage management pre-pick some people for me sometimes because I would just be like, oh, they look sad, they look like they could use a fun time in the spotlight, and they're worse than the city.

[25:48] Lesli Margherita: It's like they're an aspiring actor and they won't sit down. I got a couple of those. Sorry about that. No, that's awesome. Yeah, but I love I loved her. Yeah, I think those people are the best. But yes, I think often I overcompensate if I'm playing an evil character that I'm overly kind afterwards. But that's an interesting on stage too, when you're playing evil and you treat it with almost like Wormwood, there's like a sweetness or like a dazzle or sparkle. It's such a cool contrast. You know, I think you can't hate these people. You have to find something that is redeeming, and the Wormwoods are so ridiculous, and all of my Mr. Wormwoods had that ability too where they were just so endearing and they were horrible.

They were just so endearing that you judge you laughed at them, which was what was needed. And a lot of that was, you know, our my director Matthew made sure that it was grounded because he was the one who really kind of taught me that if it's just too much, it's annoying.

[26:56] Robert Peterpaul: In looking at all your characters and the different directors and actors that you've worked with over the years, do you feel like there's certain lessons on kindness that you've taken away?

[27:04] Lesli Margherita: Oh my gosh, tons. I mean, the show I did in London, Zorro, I played like the leader of the gypsies and what the story the award-winning show. But a lot of that story was about outsiders, you know, and justice and what Zorro is about, you know, is justice of the little man, justice of the little person, and that show gave me such an appreciation for people fighting for whatever, you know, rights they had or whatever they needed in their lives, things that were important to people and people fighting for them that really like hit home for me. I loved that lesson and I, you know, and then again Matilda is that's at the core of Matilda is kindness. Yeah. Is she comes from a family of the worst unloving people but she's still offering love to, you know, and it's just it's such a beautiful story.

And there's a moment where Miss Honey gives her some books and she just stares at her and then she just hugs her. And I ball every time I see it, because it is just at its core about kindness and remembering who you were as a child, how open and how not molded by the world you were yet, you know, and kind of getting back to those kind of ideals. Um, so I loved that as well. Um, that message, I think.

[28:36] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. And it was, you know, it was a um an odd time in the world. Things were happening while we were doing Matilda. And I was playing a character who preached the uh the gospel of louder is better, and that was what was happening with our people who were in government at that time. And so it was like, yeah, it was it was interesting, interesting to play and and interesting to then kind of step out and be like, ugh, we're kind of living in that. Um do feel like uh the last few years the kindness has gone away a bit. So I'm glad you're doing this because it really feels like it's few and far between lately.

[29:14] Lesli Margherita: Yeah, thank you. That's why I wanted to do it, because just as someone who's worked in the media for so long, I would literally see the stats of the negative headlines. Oh man, yeah. People would either click the really negative, salacious things or the really happy things. Someone's wedding photos, someone who had a baby. It's like, why does it have to be either a why can't we have these, you know, empowering and compassionate conversations? So yeah, that's why I wanted to do this.

[29:40] Robert Peterpaul: But you've been having those conversations on Twitter for so long with your Auntie Leslie tweets, which I love. And I've screenshot so many of them on my phone. Of course, I couldn't find them when I was preparing for this. But I just I love how you empower people and you urge them to rule their own kingdom and you've casually read it.

[29:57] Lesli Margherita: Oh yeah, casually, I know. No, I definitely try and and you know, sometimes it's it is taken wrong. I call myself Queen Leslie, but it literally is because I'm trying to tell people you you can call yourself queen or king or whatever, head, whatever you want, because it's about empowering yourself and ruling your kingdom. But yeah, it's hard. Like I love writing advice and stuff, but sometimes it's taken the wrong way. You just never know. It's it's odd. And I had a tweet not long ago that was literally about being kind because I had seen someone in my business who will remain unnamed who was harping on a new musical. And I thought, and I said in the tweet, I said, if you are in my business, don't say shit about the business online. I just thought don't that's that should be a given.

[30:47] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[30:47] Lesli Margherita: Unless you're a re it's not what I didn't even mean review. I just meant don't make mean comments if you're in my business about other people's work. And that was when I went away from the computer. I came back and some kid decided that I said nobody's work should be criticized. Uh huh. And the barrage of hate that I got, I was in tears all day. I was on set for something. And I was in tears because I was like, I was saying don't be a douchebag. It's all I was saying. Yeah. But some a couple kids like got a hold of it and decided to make it their soapbox about how dare you say people shouldn't criticize things. I'm like, I wasn't saying that. Criticize away. I don't need to hear it on Twitter.

[31:28] Lesli Margherita: Or like tagged me in Twitter. You know, like I was it was awful. It was terrible. So I I it's it's as hard as I try to be uplifting. There are those times, and thankfully the positive outweigh, but there are those times that again, you can't avoid the people looking for a fight or looking or who just don't want to be happy. And it seems like though what I find, especially with younger people is that they then tend to kind of glob on to each other and go, yeah, she's terrible. We hate her. And then at last it's a weird thing. It's it's when they say mob mentality, it kind of is that and I I have a really hard time with that lately. Of this kind of like, you say one thing that's taken wrong, and then it's hard. It's it's difficult. Social media is difficult. That's all I'm gonna say. It's very difficult. And really just don't be don't be a butt on social media. That's the bottom line.

[32:13] Robert Peterpaul: The bottom line.

[32:13] Lesli Margherita: Don't be a butt. Look at that. Oh my goodness. Yeah, I don't I find that so people find that to be a difficult thing, which is so weird. I know. And I will see people jumping on the hate train and my city calls me a reporter because I literally will report everyone. Like I find so much joy in reporting and suspending accounts that are being because you can't take it. And you know it's just that they're hurting. And we've all had that. You see someone in your feed in a post that maybe triggers you in the back of your mind, you have that Grinch that's thinking, oh, you could really say this sassy thing to get 'em. Yes. But then if you're in a healthy mindset, you take a step back and you don't do that. So this cancel culture that we're living in, I hope it it's a good thing. I don't know, it's it's a it's a weird thing because some of it I'm like, yes, deserved, you know.

[33:04] Robert Peterpaul: Totally.

[33:04] Lesli Margherita: But then there's the other side of it of, you know, I've had mobs of angry teens mad that I said once I don't like bootlegs, and then I became an elitist. It's like what? How what? And they were like screenshotting, you know. I sometimes let my emotions get better at me and I'll tweet back and then I'm like, oh God. Because then they screenshot it and it's there forever in my Google search. And so But it's just it's really hard. It's really hard, you know. And yeah, the cancel culture is I think directly linked to kindness. It is because it's like people who say, again, it's don't be a butt. People who see this stuff, I'm like, well, you you kind of deserve it. So, you know, it it it depends, but there are lots of undeserved anger out there.

And I mean, social media is flat, right? We're looking at it on our phones on our screens. It's not 360. We're not seeing people in a 360 view. Right. So even if someone does something terrible that you see in a headline, if you're not reading the article and really looking into it, yeah, you shouldn't be jumping on the cancel train. And then you know, maybe read it and they deserve it. But yeah, but stuff like that. And especially like I try so hard to be uplifting. And I remember just like tweeting that at Starbucks. I was like, ugh, don't be my business and blah, blah, blah. And then like hours later, it was like, kill the beast. It's like maybe the whole internet just hated me. And I was like, what happened?

[34:31] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[34:32] Lesli Margherita: Just, you know, you you try and and say nice things, but again, I guess it was my the way that I write or something that I like it. I think the way you write them is really funny because you don't take it to the coming from it from such a funny place.

[34:47] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[34:47] Lesli Margherita: Yeah, that's why I think it was just a couple kids who decided to make it their cause that day. And that's like I mean, you sparked something, so you know what?

[34:57] Robert Peterpaul: I did I did spark something.

[34:59] Lesli Margherita: There you go. You're having an impact, Lesli. There was one kid who was like, I can't wait till my work's critiqued. And I was like, okay, you let me know how that goes.

[35:09] Robert Peterpaul: Not fun.

[35:10] Lesli Margherita: No, it's not. Turn the Google alert of your name off. Don't read the comments.

[35:15] Robert Peterpaul: Don't read the comments.

[35:17] Lesli Margherita: No, no, no. Well, you generally exude so much light and energy. And you put out such a fun and energetic persona into the world. So how on the opposite end of that do you take care of yourself? Especially when you're, you know, working on set or in a Broadway show with a long run that needs a lot of stamina. And maybe you're not sleeping like some of us when we get creative.

[35:38] Lesli Margherita: I think it's tough. It's hard. I mean, I write a ton. There's so much sitting on my computer that someday I'll put out. But um I write a lot. When I'm doing a long run, it becomes really important to me to um cut out the people who are adding unnecessary drama to my life, or even you know, it's hard sometimes. You have castmates that are dark and and it becomes navigating that of you know, someone who will never even you know, if I say to somebody, well, look on the bright side, they'll go so sometimes that's it's difficult. Um for me, it's a about it's just continually creating stuff, and a lot of like cabaret shows I would write things that that would anger me, I'd put in that, you know, things that that I was working through, I would do that, and and it was weirdly therapeutic to sing about it and and talk about it in front of strangers.

You know, you do that in therapy, so why not do it in cabaret? With song. So I would I would do that, but I I have to carve out time for my head, definitely. Um and um, you know, we we uh Broadway schedule ever it's tough, yes, it's each of the week, but you're really only working a couple hours on that day. So you have all this other time to kind of um fill with uh, you know, either other jobs or or teaching or doing other stuff. I I have to make sure that my mental health is okay.

[37:17] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, and that's something they don't really teach you in these theater programs and these artists.

[37:21] Lesli Margherita: I really don't, and I really wish they would. And so I'm that's what I'm trying, at least in my Twitter. If I can drop little nuggets of advice and to Lesli can give advice, I'm trying to to be cognizant of giving some mental health advice as well that because it can get, you know, this business gets very dark. And I know what it's like to sit there and think that you're the only person not working, and I know what it's like to see them announce the cast on Broadway World and and it's somebody that you like, I why, why? You know, and it I know what that's like, and I I don't think enough people talk about the failures and the the downside of this business. And I try to do it with humor, but I think it's important to talk about because everybody goes through it, and that is also part of being kind is being kind to yourself.

[38:15] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[38:16] Lesli Margherita: Going, you know, the amount of auditions that I have tanked in my life and have beaten myself up, and now that I'm older, it it you look back at them and you're like, didn't matter.

[38:27] Lesli Margherita: And so if I can tell one young person, I know that you hate yourself today, I know that you think you have messed up, and this person will never this casting person will never see you again or ever, trust me, they won't even remember your name. You know what I mean? Like if I can, with humor, get that across, then that makes me happy because it's all things that we all go through. It's just, you know, all you see online is taps out of the bag. I've been sitting on this news forever, and you don't see the 200 auditions that I've done in my bathroom that nobody gave a crap about. You know, it just like people need to talk about that more. I just find that that makes our business more human. It's hard. Any business is hard, but especially something like this where your success is based on what you've done is weird, which is also why I started figure skating because I need something.

[39:18] Lesli Margherita: Oh, I love it. I love seeing your something outside of the business to measure success in. I need something to get better at. Yeah, like any kind of, you know, a hobby, but because measuring success in our business is very difficult because you can't again everything it's subjective in our business. It is, and the more you start to audition, the more you realize it's more about building relationships and connecting with people because at the end of the day, they're really just gonna cast you because they like who you are as a person. Yeah, it has your interpretation. And that I mean, and that I tell the youngins this all the time, and hopefully they're listening to this and listen to your podcast because yeah, put this in slow-mo right now.

If you are a good person, you will continue to work. And if you are not, I don't care how talented you are. Everybody knows that you're not a good person to work with, and they will not hire you because I'm sure you've had it too. I have been in so many rooms where they're like, hey, here so and so is blah blah blah, and everyone will go, yep. And it gets around. Broadway is like high school, it's very, very small. So if you are difficult to work with, and I know some very, very talented people who are nightmares to work with and their careers are very short.

[40:31] Lesli Margherita: Yeah. And sometimes there are those who slip through the cracks. But you have to trust that something will click with them. Either they're unhappy, or either, you know, they're eventually will realize that they weren't nice to people on the way up, or you know, it just it but man, being kind really gets you so much further. Totally. I've gotten more jobs from people being like, No, she's totally fun, like call her, you know. Yeah, like it just it it's it's odd, but it really is more about that, I think, than people's talent. Everybody's talented. Yeah, everybody's talented when you get to that level, like everybody's talented, so be nice. You have no reason not to. Totally. I love that. And it's really it does come down to being kind to yourself too at the end of the day.

I needed what you just said. I had a self-tape last night that was probably awful. I'm really sorry, everyone, my agent. But I took a moment, I don't know about you, but especially self-tapes when you're editing it, you're lighting it, you're dressing yourself, you're preparing the material. There's you're everything. And then you have to watch them and pick your take, which is not fun. I'm learning to just step away and like we were saying before, try and embrace it like a kid and take a moment to just take a beat, play a song that I love, or do something that'll make you happy and then come back to it.

[41:43] Lesli Margherita: Yeah, this has been an odd time. The self-tapes are awful. Yeah, yeah. Um, because you have to look at yourself and I don't I don't watch anything that I'm in, like I don't, I I won't. It's very difficult for me to sit if I'm at a premiere or something like it's very hard for me to watch myself. Oh yeah. Um so watching a self-tape is like the worst. Um and and yeah, I I like a year ago or so, I put on Instagram, I had a breakdown doing a self-tape with a friend of mine, and I was just bawling, and the camera was still running and I didn't realize it. And I was like, I'm putting this online because we all do that. It's just horrible. And but you know, at the end of the day, you have to remember I'm I'm not a doctor, I'm not saving lives.

I'm not in a mine, you know, like I'm not I'm just acting, and it's okay. If I don't think I'm good, that's fine. Again, it's subjective. I could think I'm amazing, and someone will watch it and be like, She's terrible. You know, it's just what has helped me over the years is realizing that no matter where you are, no matter what you do, there will be at least one person somewhere who will hate everything about you and hate what you do. And once you realize that, it takes the pressure off of being perfect. You're like, well, somebody's gonna hate it anyway, so who cares?

[43:00] Lesli Margherita: Yeah. Because no matter what, somebody's not gonna be a fan. It's just how it is. Go on the message boards. You know, it's just how it is. And and so it oddly takes pressure off of trying to be perfect. I'm gonna write that down. I'm gonna put that on a t-shirt and a bumper sticker and starting that. Seriously, it helps me because it remembering that like you're not everybody's cup of tea, and that's fine. Yeah. So do it anyway, you know. Cause I used to think I had to make everybody love me and and in auditions and it's just not true. Yeah, because you'll be the right person's cup of tea. Like Lady Gaga said incessantly on the Star Floor and tour. There's one person in a room. 100 people in a room. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It just takes one person. It really does. And I'm I'm often the odd person out. Like I'm often the weird choice for things, or often not the first choice. So often not the first choice. And I love that. That's fine. Cause I'm still there.

[44:04] Lesli Margherita: So, you know, it just it's it's you know, it it just takes pressure off. It definitely does. And I kind of like being the odd choice. I'll go to auditions and I'm like, oh there'll be like three of one Lego model and then me. And then I'll be like, oh, I see what this is. I like that. Yeah, I like that though, you know, because it means that they are looking to see what I do, and then I have freedom to be like, the hard thing is now with self tapes, I send disclaimers because I'm like, this is a bold, this is a bold choice to your agent. So if it's wrong, I send it to my agent or and I have them send it on. There have been a couple just recently I did a musical audition and I was like, look, I made a strong choice, and it may be strong and wrong.

So if it is, but you like me, or the idea of me in this role, just tell me, and a lot of things do, you know, unless they're like you're just not right, it's fine. But if they're like it happened with Matilda, I went in and auditioned as Mrs. Wormwood drunk, and Matthew was like, funny, not correct, but funny. And but he liked the fact that I made a choice.

[45:14] Lesli Margherita: Strong and wrong is my favorite because if you're even in the ballpark, even if you're way at the top of the ball, they'll tell you, and they'll say, We don't, you know, that was wrong, but but then sometimes they'd see it in a different way. Yeah, go, we never thought of it that way, but actually that's rad. Let's do that, you know, and that's way more fun to create stuff that way. Like I don't think I'd be a good replacement for anybody. That seems really tough. I think I think it's a very difficult job. And I remember early, early in my career, I went in for Wicked and did my alphabet. And they were like, no. I'd love to see that. And I and I was like, why? And they just said this is how it's done.

And I was like, why? Yeah. I can also be a great a great Glenda. Oh, I would have loved to do that. Yeah. But again, it's it's you know, it's hard. I think I think long running shows are really difficult to make your mark on. And so if I can do, you know, weird, odd things, rad things, like emoji land was awesome.

[46:20] Lesli Margherita: Oh yeah. Oh my gosh. I was in, I didn't even read a script. The director was like, Princess Emoji. I was like, I'm in. I am in. Because Princess Emoji, she's Trump. And I was like, done, done. We're in, we're in, done. And I I think the best time of my life because I love doing new stuff. I loved when nymph was happening because it was finding these new writers and and being able to do weird stuff. And I don't know. I I love that as well. And again, bringing it back to the kindness, pay it forward. Find I will always at least get back to somebody when they're if they're a new writer and they've gotten a hold of me and they're like, Hey, would you do a demo? I will do it because I know what that's like.

Like if I if I'm lucky enough to be in a position where somebody's asking me to sing a song, I'm gonna sing the song. Wow. Like it just it's it's it's part of the kindness I think goes with saying yes to people, saying yes to things, saying yes to yourself, and yeah, it's all part of it. I find that the the icky people are always the no people anyway.

[47:22] Lesli Margherita: Yeah, and you don't want to be around them anyway once you find that. You don't want to be, you don't want to be around them anyway. Yeah, but that's good to know, and I think that's a really beautiful quality. So thank you for doing that and being willing to say yes to people. So now that I know that, when I do my hocus pocus demo, I'm gonna come to. Oh, please. I need you to play Winnie and Hocus. Oh my god, I love it. I don't know why that hasn't happened yet, honestly. Oh my gosh, I would love I know, isn't it? Crazy that they haven't done like a so it seems like it's a no-brainer. Yeah. Maybe after the sequel comes out, there'll be like a resurgence and they'll realize they're making a lot of money. But okay, so you did, and if you're not allowed to talk about it, that's totally fine. Just tell me to shut up. But you did just take part in another iconic children's show that's being rebooted, Fairly OddParents.

[48:07] Lesli Margherita: Oh yes. I can't tell you who I am, but I can tell you that I'm yes, I am on it. Can you tell us anything about that experience? Oh my god. Well, first of all, I loved, loved, loved the original animated show, Fairly OddParents. I don't know what I can tell you about this. So I had originally auditioned for a role that Laura Belbundy is doing. Yes. And she's perfect. Like she's she's amazing in the show. And but then they were like, well, so we have this other role. Would you do this? And I scream laughed. I I love this role, and I love this character. Um, you got it's gonna be the best show. It is, I don't know what I can tell you. They're very secretive about it. I can uh it comes on in March.

Okay, it comes on in March. I am playing a character that that I don't believe was in the original. Okay, yeah. I know every everybody thinks I'm Wanda. I am not Wanda. Oh, that would have been amazing. I'm sure whoever got it is amazing too, but wow. Well, they're I can't tell you.

[49:12] Lesli Margherita: Oh, okay. So was that a self-tape or was that prepared? That was a self tape. Look at that. You booked that was a self-tape. Yeah. I I everything that I've done through the last, you know, COVID has been through self tape. Yeah. I I had uh one in-person audition in New York last month, which was so nerve wracking because I just hadn't done it in so long and it was weird and it was like you did the rapid tests before you went in. It was it was so odd. It was like another level of stress. Um and it was so weird and I was just a babbling idiot. I didn't get it. You're awesome. But it it there are so many differences now. I was on set recently and now instead of saying last looks they're saying masks off.

Yeah and then it's like you know especially for somebody like me you take mask off and it's just an entire face in my mouth. It's very difficult for those makeup artists. It's and um I was lucky enough to like shoot some stuff even in the beginning of COVID that that I had been shooting that we didn't get to finish because everything shut down.

[50:23] Lesli Margherita: So I um I left New York I came back to LA and then I had to go back to New York to finish filming a couple things and it was weird people were in like hazmat suits on set and then over the months it it got a little better and now it's you know now it's just part of it. You you test every other day before you go to get to set and it's just part of your day. You drive through the thing and you get on the lot, and then you like you go to it and it is it's just part of what it is. And and I'm not sure. I can't speak to what Broadway shows are doing. I know that my friends are just kind of getting tested all the time, and yeah. I know a few COVID compliance officers for different working really hard.

Like I know a lot of actors that have become the COVID officers, and that's a rad job. Yeah. You're gonna need that job. We're gonna need that position for a while. Um I you know, I I truly hope that uh that our shows are okay and Broadway will be okay, and you know, it's it's it's gonna take a bit, I think.

[51:21] Lesli Margherita: Fall 2022, Hocus Pocus the musical starring Lesli Myers.

[51:26] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, but it was so great. I was just back there last month doing a workshop or something, and I went and saw a couple things, and it was really, really exciting to see stuff.

[51:37] Lesli Margherita: I know, I can't wait. It's so exciting, especially to support that and supporting the arts. It's really important right now. So I hope everything works out and is okay.

[51:46] Robert Peterpaul: I know. Yeah, I don't want to take up too much more of your time.

[51:49] Lesli Margherita: But doesn't matter.

[51:50] Robert Peterpaul: But you're locked in. It's time for a surprise game if you're down to play.

[51:55] Lesli Margherita: It'll be really easy and quick.

[51:57] Robert Peterpaul: Okay.

[51:58] Lesli Margherita: So basically, I got a quote from someone in your life that you know. I just asked for a compliment or something they love about you, and you have to guess who said it.

[52:08] Robert Peterpaul: Everyone's beautiful in their own way. It's the compliments game on me.

[52:11] Lesli Margherita: Yay, okay. It's the compliment. Compliment Bump.

[52:19] Robert Peterpaul: What?

[52:21] Lesli Margherita: Okay. It won't be anything that makes you uncomfortable. This one's pretty the person thinks that you're gonna get it right away.

[52:29] Robert Peterpaul: Okay.

[52:30] Lesli Margherita: Is it another actor?

[52:31] Robert Peterpaul: No pressure.

[52:32] Lesli Margherita: It is not an actor.

[52:33] Robert Peterpaul: Okay.

[52:34] Lesli Margherita: Oh, so what I'm supposed to say is you can ask, we'll say five yes or no questions, and then we'll give you three guesses. But honestly, it doesn't even matter. I never follow the rules. And I also really don't know how I'm gonna help you. So okay.

[52:46] Robert Peterpaul: Okay, I'll read you your quote. There's nothing you can't do. I want to be you.

[52:54] Lesli Margherita: That's it. Does this person live in Los Angeles?

[52:57] Robert Peterpaul: I think so.

[52:58] Lesli Margherita: Is it a woman?

[53:00] Robert Peterpaul: Yes.

[53:01] Lesli Margherita: Is it Lee Martino?

[53:02] Robert Peterpaul: It is.

[53:03] Lesli Margherita: It's Lee Martino. Lee Martino is an amazing, amazing choreographer. And I have worked with her so many times out here, and our thing has always been like I always say to her, I want to be you. She says, No, I want to be you. That's what she said, yeah, you would get when I said I want to be you. Oh, I love her. I just did a benefit for her. She does incredible, incredible work. I had done Kiss and Kate for her and a bunch of shows. And so I just did a benefit for her, a breast cancer benefit that was so fun at Paramount Studios.

[53:37] Robert Peterpaul: And oh, I love that. That's amazing.

[53:39] Lesli Margherita: Yeah, so I usually I try and get these, but lately I've been having people on that only have a short amount of time, or I just haven't been able to get in touch with someone in their life. So I haven't played this little game in a while. And then I'm sitting here and I'm thinking to myself, I've been wanting to talk with Lesli for so long, and I haven't reached out to anyone. What is wrong with me? So an hour ago, I texted my friend Michael Orland.

[54:01] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, and it was amazing. I because I know you guys had maybe worked together or have met or something, and he said, Oh, I love her, but I think I know somebody that would have a good thing to say.

[54:11] Lesli Margherita: Yeah, absolutely. And so he hopped on the phone with Lily, and literally this came together minutes before you went on.

[54:16] Robert Peterpaul: I love that.

[54:18] Lesli Margherita: Oh my god, my face hurts. People can't see it, but I'm smiling so hard.

[54:23] Robert Peterpaul: Oh which is amazing because people get right back when it's about you and they want to say something nice about you, which is the news volumes. And I just, yeah, I so lucky before I ever got to New York, because I never got hired to go to New York. I was always in LA. And I would go and fly out and get close to shows in New York, but never. But LA's theater community was just unbelievable. And people are always like, There's no theater in LA. I'm like, you have no idea. The best musical theater people are in Los Angeles because they're choosing to be here. Um, and there used to be a ton of shows out here, and unfortunately, just subscription houses have kind of gone by the wayside here. But um Lee Martino, I was very lucky to meet early on in my career, and she's just one of the best choreographers and just and directors, and just I love her.

[55:12] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, that's so sweet. Thank you, Lee.

[55:14] Lesli Margherita: Oh, thanks, Lee. All right. So before I let you go, I would love if we could end this by you sharing a tangible kindness tip or wellness piece of advice that you think listeners can take with them and incorporate into their day, maybe specifically this holiday season, since you offer so many wonderful tips on your Twitter, which everyone should pause this and go follow right now.

[55:37] Robert Peterpaul: Unless you start a mob of down with her.

[55:41] Lesli Margherita: Yeah, don't follow then. Then you need to maybe sign up for therapy.

[55:44] Robert Peterpaul: You know, for therapy. Better help is a sponsor of the Broadway Podcast Network, so we can hook you up.

[55:50] Lesli Margherita: Like a tip for kindness, you know, again, it's it's so hard for me because I I find it so upsetting that people just aren't kind. You know, I always go back to there is there is some quote, and I'm and I'm terrible because I don't know who said it, but it is about people won't remember what you say, or or people won't remember what you do, but they will remember how you treated them.

[56:09] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah.

[56:10] Lesli Margherita: And I I have to find what that is or what like that exact quote is. Because that is so important to me. And so especially now, and especially because people seem so divided and so emotions are so heightened right now about everything. It's I think maybe just the next time you feel the urge to say something or disagree with someone, just take a beat and remember that you have no idea where they're coming from or what their day has been or what they're going through at home. And try to be the bigger person.

[56:49] Robert Peterpaul: You know what another one is?

[56:50] Lesli Margherita: Okay, I'm gonna say this. I because I just said that to somebody else. My favorite favorite is it's always better to be kind than to be right.

[56:59] Robert Peterpaul: I love that.

[57:00] Lesli Margherita: I and I love that because there are so many times where somebody will be speaking and I'll be like just want to say something. And instead of everyone, yeah, I'm eyes screening, and just remember to go, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And and I'm not saying to roll over and and get stepped on. I'm just saying in those instances, and you know when they are. It's it's much easier to be kind than to feel like you're right. And that goes for those Twitter people too. It's just be kind.

[57:33] Robert Peterpaul: Um yeah, I don't know. You know, that's that's kind of the only advice I can give.

[57:36] Lesli Margherita: Again, it's it's it's perfect. I think those are two really beautiful quotes that you just brought to everybody's attention to.

[57:43] Robert Peterpaul: But I just paraphrased from Jesus.

[57:48] Lesli Margherita: Jesus is the author. No, I love it because you're so right. If you just try and what is it, peacock and say that you're right, you're just gonna dig yourself into the ground. The other person's gonna dig themselves into the ground, and then no one's gonna walk anywhere and move forward. It's much better sometimes to just listen.

[58:04] Robert Peterpaul: Just listen, and if you don't agree, that's totally fine.

[58:10] Lesli Margherita: Yeah, but it is easier to just say, Great, good for you, and then you walk on.

[58:16] Robert Peterpaul: It's just yes.

[58:17] Lesli Margherita: I call it research as an actor. You think to yourself, I will file that away.

[58:21] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, and my I have a friend who we always said, like, good for you when somebody somebody's like ranting or being like, I'm so crazy busy, I'm doing this and this. We're always like, Good for you.

[58:33] Lesli Margherita: Yes, when they walk into the audition room and they're like, I just got back from tour from too, and you're like, Good for you. I'm trying to go over my signs. It's good for you. That's awesome.

[58:44] Robert Peterpaul: Yes, yeah. I mean, that that in itself, like I if you ever see me in a an audition, and people will tell you, I have my Nintendo, I have Beats headphones on, I won't look at anybody, I don't look at the sign-in sheet, like I don't want to know who's there. I literally just so if anybody comes up to me, you'll you'll get an automatic good for you, probably loud because I hear what you're saying anyway.

[59:07] Lesli Margherita: Like, wow, she really is loud. What do you do you just listen to music that makes you feel calm and in the zone, or are you listening to your lines?

[59:16] Robert Peterpaul: Because people don't no, no, I'm listening to music.

[59:19] Lesli Margherita: Yeah, normally like loud, blaring rap music. I'm I'm I'm always listening to music, or I'm playing my my video games. That's probably what's happening is when playing the video games with my headphones in.

[59:32] Robert Peterpaul: You know what's probably really cool is that sometimes somewhere someone is probably listening to a song that you're singing to hype them.

[59:39] Lesli Margherita: Well, that would not be relaxing.

[59:41] Robert Peterpaul: Well, you never know.

[59:43] Lesli Margherita: You never know. You know what that's true? You never know. You never know.

[59:46] Robert Peterpaul: Well, at least at the very least, everybody that's auditioning for Matilda and other shows you've done is listening to get it in their head, which is really special across the world with these high schools that are putting it out.

[59:55] Lesli Margherita: I know. And I try so hard to uh so many uh like kiddos reach out on Instagram to be like, We're opening, can you send us a video? And I try, try, try to to send those videos because I love that people are doing it. Um it's just I I love it. It's crazy and and great and it's the best.

[1:00:13] Robert Peterpaul: Well, you're the best, and I want to thank you so much for giving so much and putting so much for you.

[1:00:19] Lesli Margherita: I was like, I can't, I can't. I know I actually felt really bad. I didn't mean to put any pressure on you.

[1:00:24] Robert Peterpaul: Oh my god, no, I felt so bad because every time I was like, I can't, I can't, I can't, but which I'm very lucky. I was very luckily working, but um no, I no, I'm so glad. So happy.

[1:00:34] Lesli Margherita: Yeah, me too. This has been awesome. I I literally so important that you're doing it.

[1:00:39] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, thank you. You're on the original list of people, along with Dolly Parton and some other people I've already had on when I wrote down.

[1:00:48] Lesli Margherita: I know. I know.

[1:00:49] Robert Peterpaul: That woman is just Have you been to Dollywood?

[1:00:53] Lesli Margherita: I know you're a Disney World person and so I know I'm at Disney Freak. I have not been to Dollywood because I'm also a Dolly Freak and I have not been, and I really, really need to go.

[1:01:01] Robert Peterpaul: You gotta I really need to go.

[1:01:02] Lesli Margherita: Yeah, you gotta go. It's it started as a random trip to the Smoky Mountains with me and my foulsa, and uh we get there, and the best place to stay is the Dream World, Dolly's hotel. So we thought, oh, we gotta go to Dollywood.

[1:01:14] Robert Peterpaul: Oh yeah.

[1:01:15] Lesli Margherita: Next thing you know, my mom, she's sitting on the couch, we're telling her about this trip. She's like, I booked it. And my mom, my sister, and my brother are all coming on this couple, you know, vacations.

[1:01:26] Robert Peterpaul: I love it.

[1:01:26] Lesli Margherita: And anyway, we're all Disney people, and it lived up. I mean, when you go to other theme parks as a Disney freak, you're silently judging. This was this was magical. Good food, awesome rides. I recommend it.

[1:01:38] Robert Peterpaul: I mean, well, I yeah, I I grew up as a theme park performer, so uh I had so many friends that worked at Dollywood too. I was like, I wish I had worked there.

[1:01:47] Lesli Margherita: I mean, you worked at Disney, so I did, but I also worked at other theme parks that were not Disney's.

[1:01:56] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, was it Action Park in New Jersey?

[1:01:59] Lesli Margherita: No, I I started in high school. I worked at Great America in San Jose.

[1:02:03] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, okay, for like three years in high school, did the shows of Great America, and then moved for I went to UCLA and started working at Disneyland and Universal.

[1:02:11] Lesli Margherita: So Universal Studios too is pretty cool.

[1:02:13] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, it's amazing. No, I want to go. I gotta okay, I gotta go back. But I also gotta let you go. I'm holding you hostage.

[1:02:17] Lesli Margherita: Never.

[1:02:20] Robert Peterpaul: Thank you so much.

[1:02:21] Lesli Margherita: Oh my god, thank you so much. I love it. And uh hopefully I can come back.

[1:02:25] Robert Peterpaul: Yes, I would love to have you back.

[1:02:26] Lesli Margherita: Yeah, yeah.

[1:02:27] Robert Peterpaul: Thank you. Have a good rest of your day.

[1:02:29] Lesli Margherita: Thank you, you too. Bye. Stay well.

[1:02:38] Robert Peterpaul: And now it's time for your kindness tip of the week.

[1:02:46] Thank you so much again, Lesli.

[1:02:49] Robert Peterpaul: All right, everybody. I know this is the true moment that you've been waiting for. We have a very special guest to hit home your kindness tip of the week, the final kindness tip of 2021. The one and only the most beautiful girl in the world. Fresh off her birthday. A teacher, a kind soul, a writer, a thesis maker, the wonderful, the talented Cassie Carroll.

[1:03:21] Cassie Carroll: Holy moly, you're gonna have to cut some of that out.

[1:03:24] Robert Peterpaul: Welcome, Cassie, my future bedance.

[1:03:26] Cassie Carroll: Thank you.

[1:03:27] Robert Peterpaul: Beyonce.

[1:03:29] Cassie Carroll: Is it weird that I call you a bedance?

[1:03:31] Robert Peterpaul: No, I mean I'm used to your idiosyncrasies. You can put in whatever you want.

[1:03:36] Lesli Margherita: I feel like it's like fiancé mixed with Beyoncé, which is also a big compliment.

[1:03:41] Robert Peterpaul: So, first of all.

[1:03:46] Lesli Margherita: Hold on, let me take out my Invisalign.

[1:03:49] Robert Peterpaul: Oh my god.

[1:03:50] Lesli Margherita: I'm keeping that in.

[1:03:53] Lesli Margherita: All right, they're out.

[1:03:55] Robert Peterpaul: Your teeth are already beautiful.

[1:03:56] Lesli Margherita: So Cassie dutifully listens to every episode, which she doesn't have to do, but she's incredibly supportive, as you will know if you are lucky enough to be friends with her or have her as your daughter or your cousin or whatever.

[1:04:09] Robert Peterpaul: I don't know who's listening. But Cassie, since you have listened to every episode, I would love to know what do you see as a through line in the definitions of kindness that have come across throughout these 31 episodes.

[1:04:23] Cassie Carroll: Wow, 31 already. A couple through lines I've been noticing. One is that you really have to balance self-love and self-kindness with kindness that goes outward. I think, as you always say, you can't pour from an empty cup. And uh, we've had some wonderful, we've, as if I'm taking credit. You've had some wonderful. I wouldn't be able to do this without you. To talk about um how to take care of the self and how to uh be kind to yourself, which I've learned a lot from. Um, so that was a major through line. I also noticed just general thoughtfulness and just taking moments to think about other people and think about like small things like where they're coming from or where they're going, or remembering their birthday, or remembering um a movie they watched and asking them about it, and um simple gestures I think really um resonate in people's lives and and I love how your guests amplify that.

[1:05:23] Robert Peterpaul: Aw, I think that's well said. That's definitely something I've noticed too: that kindness is many little acts put together to build one big wave of change.

[1:05:34] Cassie Carroll: Ooh, so artful. Little acts. I feel like it sounded like I said acts, which is a little bit harsher than kindness, you know.

[1:05:43] Robert Peterpaul: Yes, you're you're going for the A C T S. Thank you so much. Which it relates to acting and art. So, you know, explain that.

[1:05:50] Cassie Carroll: So art and acting, all right. So I know what you've truly been waiting for. Yes. And what everybody out there keeps asking me to ask you is Cassie, what is your definition of kindness?

[1:06:05] Cassie Carroll: Thank you so much for asking. Um, I'm gonna throw a wrench in here and say I don't have one because I'm learning I'm learning how much I don't really know about kindness um and all that I have to learn. So I appreciate that. But there is something I've noticed that hasn't yet been said that I've been learning mainly from well, from a lot of people in my life, but I work with this amazing team of teachers who all share this in common. I've noticed that um if something is said one day or or if we're we're doing something and somebody says something offhand, they are so reflective and they are so I don't know the word for it. Maturity comes to mind, but it it's a it's a bigger word for it, in that if they think something wasn't said well, or if something might have been um misrepresented or misreceived, they come back the next day and they're like, you know what? I said this the other day, and I just hope you don't, I hope you know I meant it this way and I apologize. They're just so like self-actualized in a way.

[1:07:11] Robert Peterpaul: What is that? No, did you hear that? That was our toilet upstairs.

[1:07:15] Cassie Carroll: Okay. Wow. Conversations and somebody's getting deep in the apartment above us in the toilet.

[1:07:22] Robert Peterpaul: Okay. I think that's my my cue to be uh a little concise. Anyways, there's they're just so ready to admit that something didn't come out right, or um to check in on people, and I think that's like part of being really reflective. So I think yes, kindness is planning ahead and thinking ahead and um doing these acts, but it's also reflecting on acts and it's thinking about how they were received and how they might have made other people feel. Um, I think we're really good at reflecting on how things made us feel, and we're like, oh, it was so rotten how so-and-so said this, but we can practice it more in ourselves. And I I hate admitting when I'm um when I've done I I don't want to say I hate I I'll admit when I'm wrong, but I I never want to bring something up that might uh you know re upset somebody.

So I I'm still working at that part of I'm I think I'm good at reflecting. I'm still working on the part where I have to say, hey, I said this thing, and I hope you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[1:08:33] Cassie Carroll: So I think for a kindness tip, if you want it, I do. From yours, truly, is in the new year to be more reflective. So we're we're so um ready to set goals for ourselves, but we also have to look back and see what we've done. It could be moments after, it could be days after. I mean, my mind tends to do all this what right when I'm trying to go to sleep. But if you try and take a moment and think, what were we always do the um high, low and haha of the day, but we could also say, was there anything that I maybe would have changed? Um and if there is, hopefully you have a chance to go and change it.

[1:09:10] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, wow. Just to I guess build off of that first. We do a high, low and a ha ha at night sometimes, which is exactly as it sounds. I think I've talked about it in previous episodes. And I did not create it, I got credit for it.

[1:09:24] Cassie Carroll: I you totally like brought that into my life. And I mean, I don't think I invented it either. I know a lot of people that do it, but you just basically reflect on something good that happened, something funny that happened, and then maybe something that was sad or that you feel like you could reflect upon and use to make yourself a better person.

[1:09:42] Robert Peterpaul: I will say thank you so much for bringing that to the table because you're right. I don't think anybody's mentioned the power of reflection, like the song from Mulan.

[1:09:52] Cassie Carroll: Yes.

[1:09:52] Robert Peterpaul: Well, actually, it's not it's actually not used in the same context in that film, but I think I'm going down a rabbit hole. The power of editing. You know what? I'll just keep it in because we gotta be raw and we gotta accept ourselves fully in the new year. I think to add to that, I would say as we enter 2022, everyone think back on 2021. I know it's hard and we're cringing thinking back on 2021 and even 2020. Whew, don't look back there. But just think about things that you feel as though didn't go the way you wanted them to or are still bothering you. We all have those thoughts and really dive in there and keep asking yourself why. And sometimes that helps you get to the root of an issue or why you're feeling a certain way, and then you can go into the new year better.

And um, it's kind of like a car, you know? When you're driving a car, you're going forward, but you still have to look in the rear view window once in a while in the rearview mirror. But if you're staring in the rear view mirror, you're just gonna stay there, you're not gonna go anywhere. But if you're going forward and then glancing back, it enables you to drive safely. I remember taking my my driving test, and um they were they always said, look in the rear view, look in the side mirrors, and take your your head and actually look for your blind spots. And I remember like doing that like a robot on my license test. Um, but I got it. So you know.

[1:11:19] Cassie Carroll: She does.

[1:11:19] Robert Peterpaul: She drives around. She drives, she drives herself. And little Bruce, her car Bruce.

[1:11:26] Cassie Carroll: Yeah.

[1:11:26] Robert Peterpaul: Pretty safe. Yeah, that's so true though. And I think that goes with all of these kindness tips. If you guys want to listen back to an episode, I would love that. But just remember to take everything in a 360 view. Just like with a car, you have to use everything. Don't take one piece of advice and live by it. It's a lot of different aspects that we have to focus on when it comes to kindness and taking care of ourselves and making the world a better place. But I want to thank Cassie for giving us that beautiful definition for supporting me through this crazy weird venture. I still can't believe I have a podcast. I feel like I joked about it for a long time. And Cassie and I toyed around with even making our own podcast.

[1:12:08] Cassie Carroll: Yeah.

[1:12:08] Robert Peterpaul: Which maybe we can spoil it. Maybe one day.

[1:12:10] Cassie Carroll: I think it's a good idea.

[1:12:12] Robert Peterpaul: But we shouldn't really.

[1:12:13] Cassie Carroll: Yeah, we won't spoil it.

[1:12:14] Robert Peterpaul: 2022. 2022. Maybe that'll come your way. All right. I'll lock off. I was like, no, everyone anyway. Everyone, I cannot thank Cassie enough. She is enough. The love of my life. You can enough. She is a beautiful soul. She makes everybody's life brighter and every room she walks into a little bit more dazzling. She's making a weird face of me right now, but you know what? That makes it all the more charming and better. And I'll stop thanking Cassie and I'll turn it over to you, listeners. I know I'm in your ears right now. And I want to send lots of joy and gratitude into your ears through these headphones or speakers and let you know that seriously I appreciate each and every one of you so much for tuning in and being a part of our kindness community.

[1:13:04] Cassie Carroll: Oh.

[1:13:04] Robert Peterpaul: Audio hug. Audio hug. She knew it was coming. It really means the world to me. And I also want to extend the second invitation of letting you know that my email inbox is open at Art of Kindness Podcast on Gmail.com. The DMs are open on Art of Kindness Pod on Instagram or at Robert Peterpaul on Instagram. Cassie is probably open too, but she's a teacher, so we can't shout out her social media. During our lockdown, when I was virtual teaching, I also offered like send me a note if you need a laugh or something. And I have some great YouTube videos of talking birds ready to cheer anyone up if they know what I'll also say while we're recommending things. Cassie and I have been watching Love on the Spectrum, and that is definitely a very uplifting watch.

It's heartwarming, it's interesting, it's informative, and it's important. It's a lot of eyes. Oh, now I'm thrown off the train of saying goodbye and thank you. It's the Peter Paul goodbye. I know I can't say goodbye. It's gonna be like an hour long outro.

[1:14:09] Cassie Carroll: Okay, well, I will of course thank each and every one of our amazing guests. Do you have a favorite guest? I don't think I don't know if we should do that.

[1:14:16] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, I can't choose. Yeah, no, you're my favorite guest. No, each guest has been amazing in different ways in a very good thing. Although Joe Dembrowski said hi to me. Yeah, Cassie's gotten some shout outs, which is pretty fun for her. It's a park. But every guest has been amazing. I really I can't even believe that I've gotten to talk to some of these people right here in our little apartment. And of course, I gotta thank the Broadway Podcast Network for signing the show and supporting me and being such a wonderful trampoline to bounce on. I don't that make sense.

[1:14:50] Cassie Carroll: What?

[1:14:50] Robert Peterpaul: I don't know what that means. I don't know how to wrap this up. What do I say? How do I say goodbye? I love you, bye-bye.

[1:14:59] Cassie Carroll: Oh, I do. I love you all. I'm still here, and we'll be back. We'll be back soon. We don't know when, but it's gonna be soon, right? Right. It's gonna be soon. Oh, I'm getting soon. You'll get antsy and you'll want to make another episode in no time. Well, I'm not gonna take too long of a break. I just want to make sure we set up a lot of great guests and have everything in line for the new year to welcome back our people. And then season two will probably be longer because we started season one in July. Season two will probably start, you know, maybe end of January, February. Very soon. It'll start soon. Maybe tomorrow. I don't even know.

[1:15:35] Cassie Carroll: Yeah.

[1:15:35] Robert Peterpaul: All right. I gotta put the cane on myself, drag myself off stage. But please know we are here for you. And until next time, remember, wanna say it with me.

[1:15:48] Cassie Carroll: Okay.

[1:15:48] Robert Peterpaul: Please know that we are here for you.

[1:15:51] Cassie Carroll: I actually didn't know what you were gonna say.

[1:15:55] Robert Peterpaul: I was gonna say, and until next time, uh like what I said. Everything's gonna be a-okay.

[1:16:00] Cassie Carroll: Oh shit, okay.

[1:16:01] Robert Peterpaul: Okay. Yeah, yeah, okay. Okay. I'm gonna try that again. Take three. Wait, what? How do I start? Okay. We're gonna we love you. We're gonna miss you. And please remember, wait, until okay, we we love you. We're gonna miss you. We'll be back soon. And until next time, remember everything. Everything's gonna be a okay.