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[0:00] Robert Peterpaul: Wicked For Good Movie Director Jon M. Chu.

[0:30] Jon M. Chu: Wicked For Good Movie Director Jon M. Chu.

[1:00] Robert Peterpaul: Wicked For Good Movie Director Jon M. Chu.

[1:30] Robert Peterpaul: And we'll be sure to share more soon. But for now, please head to kindnessisfree.org and check out their fantastic mission. Also know that they have changed me for good. Speaking of for good, you know where this is going, friend. Happy Wicked For Good season. Last World Kindness Week graced us with the first magnificent movie musical installment, and we were fortunate to share space with the acclaimed and kind director, Jon M. Chu. In honor of Part 2 being released, I used my grimmery to unearth our conversation from the AOK Library, because he shares so many wonderful nuggets and I know you will be obsessedulated. We focused on Jon's journey, how he led with kindness on the set of Wicked, and even have some surprises from Glinda and Elphaba themselves. So without further ado, please enjoy a re-release of our Wicked conversation with the joyful Jon M. Chu.

[2:50] Robert Peterpaul: Well, first of all, congratulations on Wicked. I mean, I cannot put into words how much I loved this movie and so many of your other projects, including, I'll say, your brand new memoir, Viewfinder.

[3:03] Jon M. Chu: Thank you. Thank you very much.

[3:05] Robert Peterpaul: Yes, I listened to the audiobook, which was so fun because it's your voice.

[3:09] Jon M. Chu: I'm so sorry you had to hear my voice for 20 hours or whatever it is.

[3:13] Robert Peterpaul: No, it was great. I loved it. It gave it more personality and had like 15 pages of questions for you, which don't worry, I trimmed it down. But we got a lot of yellow brick road to cover today, so I'll just I'll stop complimenting you. I mean, I honestly like I probably won't. But basically, Jon, I just want to start by thanking you for being a leader in the entertainment industry who I feel like really values and leads with kindness and humanity above everything else.

[3:34] Jon M. Chu: Thank you, because I don't remember reading about kindness that much in the entertainment industry before you sort of had this platform.

[3:48] Robert Peterpaul: So I just thank you. I really cannot say enough about that.

[3:51] Jon M. Chu: That means a lot. That means a lot. You know, I think that that's the way the business should be. I think creativity and art can be from kindness, even though people sort of tend to like what's art supposed to be, you know, supposed to be torture. And I love that kind of art, too. But I do think there's another road for that. And I think that puts a lot of pressure on the work to be that much better. And so something for like Wicked, we had such a great experience. I remember in the edit room being like, then this work better be incredible. Otherwise, people are just going to walk away, be like, wow, that was a nice experience. But the movie sucked. I made very clear that we need to make this movie soar so that we can be an advocate for that kind of workspace.

[4:33] Robert Peterpaul: And I love I think in your book you had a quote, I wrote down so many quotes and they're posted all over my brain mentally and probably honestly on my door later today. But you had a line about that in your book about how sometimes being more empathetic and kind can cost something, whether it's the production or time. But it makes all the difference. And I just I love that approach. And I hope you've been feeling all the love for Wicked now that I've complimented you and so many people have. How are you at receiving compliments?

[5:01] Jon M. Chu: I have a protective shell, for sure, because I know how fast it can come and go. This has been a sustained couple of weeks, and so I'm starting to let it in and I'm starting to, you know, I have shifted my currency for what I do from audience to what I feel compelled to make for my children or for myself. And I think that helps protect me. And so when people I'm getting this like outpouring of love, I have to do a little bit of work to let it in a little bit. But it's very nice. It's very nice. I'm also working on movie two right now, so I'm like super focused. Like, what do I got to do? I got to get that done.

[5:50] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah, I mean, this was a later question I had for you, but since you brought it up, I was wondering, getting all that love and feedback and kind of different perspectives about the movie as you're going back into edit the second part. Does that affect you at all? Like, how do you kind of cancel that out?

[6:05] Jon M. Chu: I don't know. I don't know, to be honest yet, because I did. I cut both of them last year so I could get a roadmap of where we're headed so that everything is intentional for the next chapter of it. Then I put it to the side, so I haven't reopened that box. And so I have to assume that, yes, it will affect me in some way, that people are seeing the details that I thought maybe they wouldn't see. And the performances of the things that I love, the little nuances of right or little things from Elphaba that like I'm going to want to probably put more of those things in. So we'll have to see. I'm trying to stay disciplined, but it's always fun to know what people like about their characters.

[6:47] Robert Peterpaul: Oh, yeah. I mean, to quote baby Nessa.

[6:50] Jon M. Chu: Yeah.

[6:52] Robert Peterpaul: We laughed about that every day on set. We had so much fun with that one line.

[6:57] Jon M. Chu: Yep. Yeah. And but you never I never knew the audience would pick up on that.

[7:02] Robert Peterpaul: So it's so good. I cackled. I was like, well, that sucked me in. I was already in, but I was like, OK, that's my best friend. You know, it's kind of interesting to talk to you about compliments. It's something we always start with on this show. Having read Viewfinder because you discussed this moment where you encountered one of your heroes, one of the Steve's in your life, Steve Jobs. And you kind of struggled to find the right words, as I feel like I probably did, like the Muppet I am at the top of the show trying to tell you how much I admire you. Being on the other side of that now and having admirers come up to you or, you know, DM you in this social media landscape. What kind words do you find are the ones that really break through that shell and stick with you and hit you the most?

[7:48] Jon M. Chu: I think people I've gotten hit a lot in the last couple of weeks of very personal stories. You know, metaphorically hit.

[7:58] Robert Peterpaul: Metaphorically hit. Everybody at home. No one's actually coming to the street with me yet.

[8:02] Jon M. Chu: Although throwing stories at people, that's a great image. Just like throwing books.

[8:06] Robert Peterpaul: Books.

[8:07] Jon M. Chu: Journals. Takes you into the story.

[8:09] Robert Peterpaul: Stop with the journals. Now I'm imagining laptops coming at me.

[8:15] Jon M. Chu: So anyway, and then it sucks you into the story or like your grandma throws the trash bin at you like you talk about in your book. And then, you know, this magical trash bin. The best part is when they're talking about like being a child at the movie theater again. Like it brought me back to a moment where I felt like I was a child watching a movie and being enamored by it. That has moved me more than I thought it would because that's why I got into movies. That's the feeling of awe when you're – and I was showing my daughter. I was like – we were watching and I was watching someone's mouth open like watching. I was like, see that that you're doing? I was like, that's called awe. And that's what I'm trying to do with my audience at every moment.

And she was like, oh, OK. It's just been so beautiful to see people have awe and especially for Cynthia and Ari. Like when Defying Gravity, when she's up there, I see people like crying through their tears, cheering and standing up. In an audience that doesn't even know I'm there, it is the most beautiful thing. I like retracted my recliner AMC special seat. I was like flying. It was amazing.

[9:16] Robert Peterpaul: You can get this dose of the awe on TikTok because people are sharing their reactions to certain moments of the film that, you know, maybe we'll talk about on here. But I love that you mentioned that. To get sort of into kindness, to set the context for our conversation today, what is your definition of kindness? If you're looking at kindness through your viewfinder there and how do you think it's changed over the years?

[9:38] Jon M. Chu: Essentially, I have such an interesting relationship with the word kindness because it has such a negative connotation to other people, too. Like feels naive to say kind. And I and that really makes me sad because to me, I think kindness is is listening. I think kindness is seeing, and it doesn't mean you are prioritizing somebody over yourself. I think it just might mean like through the matrix of our rat race and through what's pumping us to go forward and do the next thing, do the next thing. Like you're taking a moment to look at somebody and acknowledge their existence in their own matrix. And I think to me, those can come in small moments, in big moments. And that is that is a strong thing to be able to stop the flow to stop for somebody.

And that is to me, that is strong. And so I wish there was another word for kindness that was as simple as kindness that didn't have the negative connotation of people being like, oh, that's like, I don't know. That's a cowtow to someone. I don't know what it is, but I think that's that's the thing for me.

[10:54] Robert Peterpaul: That's interesting. You know, when there is research and there's so much science that literally shows kind leaders are more effective. I mean, I could yak your ear off all day about how kindness in the world is actually a lot more powerful. I think kindness is confidence. I think kindness, when you can actually stop down, means you don't have to run the race. You can take a look at somebody. And I think that that that that penetrates, actually.

[11:16] Jon M. Chu: Yeah.

[11:17] Robert Peterpaul: And it's very vulnerable, right?

[11:18] Jon M. Chu: Yeah.

[11:19] Robert Peterpaul: When I see what I saw working with Cynthia and Ari and we talked about power because that's what the each of them in the characters were trying to search for and get and the power. Maybe they misinterpreted how they get that power and how they treat each other was going to be. And these two women coming in, Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande, have so much power.

[11:42] Jon M. Chu: Yeah.

[11:43] Robert Peterpaul: And how are we going to come together with Wicked, which is also has a huge power? How are we all going to fit together? And we decided up front that we are. I know people make fun of giving space, but we are going to give each other the space to to to speak and to try things and to maybe do something that might be humiliating for a moment if we do it wrong. But also the space to erase and put back and forgive and give grace. And that was soon as we opened up that conversation between each other of how we were going to work together, then the work could be done in the best and the best foundation to build off of. And we do that to this day to the edit to this day to press. We can even talk about call each other.

Hey, you said this thing. Do you want me to position in any way? You want to say it in any way? Am I saying it wrong? Well, actually, it didn't happen like that. Like those conversations are really fascinating to have with people that you work so closely with and have such a respect for. It's no ego in there.

[12:41] Robert Peterpaul: Yeah. Space to erase and give grace, you said. I feel like you're spitting poetry at me there. I like that a lot. OK, well, you know, much like I guess Elphaba to kind of go to the beginning of your journey for a second is you've spoken about feeling like an outsider at times. Although reading your book like there's so much joy and love throughout your childhood and the way you embrace technology in this school that seems so dreamy where filmmakers are sort of the Regina George's walking down the hallway. Not that you're mean, but that you're popular. And so I wonder, you know, your parents opened this Chinese restaurant, which it's on my bucket list to go to now. It's like a dream of mine.

[13:15] Jon M. Chu: Yes.

[13:16] Robert Peterpaul: Chef Chu's. And this philosophy to not only fill stomachs, but to fill hearts and yet never complain. You know, in this vein, what do you think they taught you about kindness growing up?

[13:27] Jon M. Chu: It's interesting because, you know, I have an autistic brother, and so it was everywhere we go and he's my older brother. So everywhere we go, people are staring. People are which isn't a bad thing necessarily. But or. Or people react in other ways as well. And I think I would always as the youngest of that family, I would observe you're observing a lot and I would look at people and I'd be like, stop judging. You have no idea in my head. And I think I wanted them to give us that grace. I think I wanted them to get. We have five crazy kids running around a restaurant and we're Chinese family going into whatever nice restaurant. And I wanted those other families who were staring at us, those other patrons to just give us some give us some grace to exist and say, you know what? They're trying their best. And I wanted that so badly that I always said I'm never going to be those.

[14:36] Robert Peterpaul: Welcome to The Art of Kindness. Today, we have the incredible Jon M. Chu, the director of the highly anticipated film Wicked: For Good.

[15:06] Robert Peterpaul: Jon, it's such a pleasure to have you here. Your work has always inspired so many, and I can't wait to dive into your experiences on this project.

[15:26] Robert Peterpaul: Let's start with the concept of kindness on set. How do you cultivate a kind environment while directing such a massive production?

[15:44] Robert Peterpaul: I know you’ve worked with some amazing talent, including Ariana Grande and Cynthia Erivo. Can you share some acts of kindness you've witnessed from them during the filming?

[16:04] Robert Peterpaul: It must be incredible to see how these stars use their platforms to spread positivity.

[16:24] Robert Peterpaul: Speaking of positivity, I recently read your memoir, Viewfinder. It’s such an uplifting journey. What inspired you to write it?

[16:44] Robert Peterpaul: Your story from Silicon Valley to Hollywood is fascinating. How do you think your upbringing influenced your approach to storytelling?

[17:04] Robert Peterpaul: I’d love to hear more about the themes of belonging and creativity in your memoir.

[17:24] Robert Peterpaul: As a director, how do you ensure that those themes resonate with your cast and crew?

[17:44] Robert Peterpaul: It’s clear that you prioritize kindness in your leadership style. How do you think that impacts the final product?

[18:12] Robert Peterpaul: With Wicked being such a beloved musical, what was your approach to adapting it for the screen?

[18:32] Robert Peterpaul: There’s so much anticipation around this film. How does it feel to be at the helm of such a significant project?

[18:52] Robert Peterpaul: I can only imagine the pressure, but it sounds like you’re handling it with grace.

[19:12] Robert Peterpaul: Can you share any memorable moments from the set that highlight the spirit of collaboration?

[19:32] Robert Peterpaul: It’s wonderful to hear about the camaraderie among the cast and crew.

[19:52] Robert Peterpaul: As we wrap up, what message do you hope audiences take away from Wicked: For Good?

[20:12] Robert Peterpaul: Thank you so much for sharing your insights, Jon. It’s been a pleasure having you on the show.

[20:32] Robert Peterpaul: I can’t wait for everyone to see the film and experience the kindness and creativity you’ve brought to life.

[20:52] Robert Peterpaul: Until next time, keep spreading kindness and positivity!

[29:12] Robert Peterpaul: Welcome back to The Art of Kindness. Today, we have the incredible director of the highly anticipated film Wicked: For Good, Jon M. Chu, joining us.

[29:42] Robert Peterpaul: Jon, it's such a pleasure to have you here. Your work has always been about creating visually stunning experiences, and now you're bringing this beloved musical to life on the big screen.

[30:04] Robert Peterpaul: Can you share a bit about what it means to you to direct a project like this, especially with such a powerful message of kindness at its core?

[30:24] Robert Peterpaul: I know you’ve worked with some amazing talent, including Ariana Grande and Cynthia Erivo. What have been some of the kind acts you’ve witnessed from them on set?

[30:44] Robert Peterpaul: It must be inspiring to see how they use their platforms to spread positivity and kindness, not just in their performances but in their interactions with the crew and fans.

[31:04] Robert Peterpaul: Speaking of positivity, I’d love to hear about your approach to leadership on set. How do you foster a kind and collaborative environment while working on such a large-scale production?

[31:24] Robert Peterpaul: Your memoir, Viewfinder, is coming out soon. Can you tell us a little about what inspired you to write it and what readers can expect?

[31:44] Robert Peterpaul: It sounds like a journey of self-discovery and creativity, which aligns perfectly with the themes we discuss here on The Art of Kindness.

[32:04] Robert Peterpaul: As you reflect on your career, what are some of the key moments that have shaped your understanding of kindness in the industry?

[32:24] Robert Peterpaul: I imagine there have been challenges along the way. How have those experiences influenced your perspective on kindness and leadership?

[32:44] Robert Peterpaul: It’s fascinating to hear how your journey has evolved. With your upcoming projects, including the biopic for Britney Spears, how do you plan to continue spreading that message of kindness through your work?

[33:04] Robert Peterpaul: I think it’s so important for artists to use their voices for good, and you’re certainly doing that.

[33:24] Robert Peterpaul: Let’s talk about the impact of Wicked: For Good. What do you hope audiences take away from this film, especially in terms of kindness and community?

[33:44] Robert Peterpaul: It’s incredible how stories can unite us and inspire change.

[34:04] Robert Peterpaul: I know you’ve also been involved in various philanthropic efforts. Can you share how those experiences have influenced your work in film?

[34:24] Robert Peterpaul: It’s clear that your heart is in the right place, and that shines through in your projects.

[34:44] Robert Peterpaul: As we wrap up, what final thoughts do you have for our listeners about the importance of kindness in their own lives?

[35:04] Robert Peterpaul: Thank you so much for sharing your insights, Jon. It’s been a joy having you on the show.

[35:24] Robert Peterpaul: I can’t wait for everyone to see Wicked: For Good and experience the magic you’ve created.

[35:44] Robert Peterpaul: Until next time, let’s all remember to sprinkle kindness like confetti!

[43:48] Robert Peterpaul: Welcome back to The Art of Kindness. I’m your host, Robert Peterpaul, and today we have the incredible Jon M. Chu, the director of the highly anticipated film Wicked: For Good. Jon, it’s so great to have you here!

[44:04] Jon M. Chu: Thanks for having me, Robert! I’m excited to be here and talk about all things Wicked.

[44:30] Robert Peterpaul: Absolutely! So, let’s dive right in. You’ve worked with some amazing talent on this project, including Ariana Grande and Cynthia Erivo. What has it been like leading such a star-studded cast?

[44:48] Jon M. Chu: It’s been a dream come true. Both Ariana and Cynthia bring so much heart and talent to their roles. They’re not just stars; they’re kind and generous people, which makes the whole process even more special.

[45:12] Robert Peterpaul: That’s wonderful to hear! Kindness seems to be a theme in your work. Can you share some specific acts of kindness you’ve witnessed on set?

[45:40] Jon M. Chu: Definitely! One moment that stands out is when Ariana took the time to connect with the crew, making sure everyone felt included and appreciated. It’s those little gestures that really create a positive atmosphere.

[46:08] Robert Peterpaul: It sounds like you foster a really supportive environment. How do you approach being a kind leader on set?

[46:18] Jon M. Chu: I believe in leading by example. If I show kindness and respect, it encourages everyone else to do the same. It’s all about creating a space where people feel safe to express themselves.

[46:46] Robert Peterpaul: That’s such an important perspective. Your memoir, Viewfinder, is coming out soon. Can you tell us a bit about it?

[47:06] Jon M. Chu: Sure! Viewfinder is my journey from Silicon Valley to Hollywood, and it’s about finding your voice and belonging. I hope it inspires others to embrace their uniqueness.

[47:34] Robert Peterpaul: I can’t wait to read it! You’ve had such a diverse career, from Crazy Rich Asians to In the Heights. How do you choose your projects?

[48:02] Jon M. Chu: I look for stories that resonate with me personally and have the potential to impact others. It’s important to me that the projects I take on reflect kindness and positivity.

[48:30] Robert Peterpaul: That’s a beautiful approach. Speaking of impact, what do you hope audiences take away from Wicked: For Good?

[48:57] Jon M. Chu: I hope they leave feeling inspired and uplifted. The story is about friendship, acceptance, and the power of kindness, which is more important now than ever.

[49:23] Robert Peterpaul: Absolutely! It’s a message we all need. You’ve also been involved in some incredible projects outside of film. What’s next for you?

[49:51] Jon M. Chu: I’m excited to be directing the biopic for Britney Spears based on her memoir, The Woman in Me. It’s a project I’m really passionate about.

[50:11] Robert Peterpaul: That sounds amazing! Britney’s story is so powerful. How do you plan to approach it?

[50:41] Jon M. Chu: I want to tell her story authentically and respectfully, highlighting her journey and resilience. It’s important to me that we honor her voice.

[51:09] Robert Peterpaul: I’m sure you’ll do a fantastic job. Before we wrap up, is there any advice you’d like to share with our listeners about kindness?

[51:39] Jon M. Chu: Just remember that small acts of kindness can make a big difference. Whether it’s a compliment or lending a helping hand, it all adds up.

[52:09] Robert Peterpaul: That’s such a great reminder. Thank you so much for joining us today, Jon. It’s been a pleasure!

[52:39] Jon M. Chu: Thank you for having me, Robert! I really enjoyed our conversation.

[53:09] Robert Peterpaul: And to our listeners, make sure to check out Wicked: For Good in theaters and keep an eye out for Jon’s memoir, Viewfinder, coming soon!

[53:35] Jon M. Chu: Thanks, everyone!

[54:05] Robert Peterpaul: Until next time, stay kind and keep spreading positivity!

[54:35] Jon M. Chu: Bye!

[55:05] Robert Peterpaul: Bye!

[55:35] Jon M. Chu: Take care!

[56:05] Robert Peterpaul: You too!

[56:31] Jon M. Chu: Bye!

[57:01] Robert Peterpaul: Bye!

[57:09] Jon M. Chu: Bye!

[57:39] Robert Peterpaul: Bye!

[58:09] Jon M. Chu: Bye!