This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Gennean Scott: Tune in to this special episode featuring two talented Jimmy Award alums, Amina Faye, winner of the 2016 Jimmy Awards, and currently on the North American Tour of Six the Musical, and 2013 Jimmy Award nominee, John Clay the Third, currently performing in New York, New York here on Broadway.

[0:19] Gennean Scott: This episode is in celebration of the 14th annual Jimmy Awards happening on June 26th.

[0:27] Amina Faye: I see this picture book. I see what life looks like. I look I see what society paints as successful, as beautiful, as etc., etc. And I have to challenge it and be like, this is what it looks like, but I also look like all those things, and I don't look like that. So it's one thing to wish that you want to conform, and it's another thing to be like, I don't need to conform. I can very much make my own lane, celebrate who I am, and still be successful. It was an eye-opening experience to see somebody who one went to Carnegie Mellon, two, was extremely talented, and three was just open to ushering me in and opening my eyes to more possibilities and not pigeonholing myself in a way and understanding that whatever I do is gonna be black, and I can it's it's gonna be received because I am honoring the work in the best way I see fit.

[1:21] Gennean Scott: Welcome to the Black Business of Broadway, a podcast brought to you by the Broadway League and Black to Broadway. Here we highlight the stories, how-tos, and successes of the black professionals and legends of Broadway. I am your host, Gennean Scott.

[1:46] Gennean Scott: Today's guest is singer, actress, dancer, and 2016 Jimmy Award winner Amina Faye. Amina is a Penn State graduate, and some of her theater credits include Love in Hate Nation and SUFs. She can currently be seen in the 2022-2023 North American Tour of Six. Welcome, Amina.

[2:08] Amina Faye: Thank you for having me.

[2:09] Gennean Scott: We were just talking a little bit before we started recording. You mentioned that your parents are natives of Senegal in Western Africa, and you grew up in North Carolina.

[2:19] Amina Faye: I did.

[2:20] Gennean Scott: So did you have any family members involved in the arts while you were growing up? Was this something that you always knew you wanted to do?

[2:29] Amina Faye: Yeah, um, so I grew up, I mean, by nature, you know, African culture is so immersed culturally. Um, and so I grew up listening to a lot of music, and also my parents immigrated here in their 20s, and I mean they grew up listening to African music. Like, uh, one of my favorite African artists, his name is Yusindur. So I woke I grew up listening to him, and then definitely my parents grew up with Michael Jackson. So like I grew up listening to that and listening to a lot of like Destiny's Child, Aaliyah. Um, so I grew up singing and being very musical. Um, but as we know, uh Broadway is a pretty uh Western um culture and art experience. So I didn't have the vocabulary for theater or Broadway until I was in high school.

Um, but I always grew up singing. Um, no one in my family can sing. Um, so we're always like, where did she get it from? Um, because my mom and my dad sure can't. Um, but um, but you know, just grew up with nothing. Just facts. Um, but you know, um, yeah, so I just always grew up singing and loving music and singing in talent shows. Um, and then I went to a public high uh middle school, and then my high school year, there was a school called Central Academy of Technology and Arts called CADA, and there um it's a charter school, and there were basically different majors and there was a theater major, and I was like, like, let me try it, let's see what happens. And so I auditioned and I got in. And that was like my window into theater.

[4:05] Gennean Scott: Wow. You know, okay, so my family is very musical and they all sing, and I'm the only one that doesn't.

[4:13] Amina Faye: No.

[4:14] Gennean Scott: I take that back. My mother doesn't sing either. At least I like I can I can hit a you know, like you can give me a note and I can match it. It may not be that good, but I can at least do that, but so but so I I I feel your family's pain on that.

[4:34] Gennean Scott: So am I correct in that you were cast as Sarah in the production of Ragtime at Central Academy of Technology and Arts, and this was your role that got you into the Jimmies?

[4:49] Amina Faye: Exactly. Yeah. Um, the year before I did Baker's Wife and Into the Woods and like the prelimin the preliminary to the Jimmies is called the Bloomies from where I'm from in Charlotte. Yes. Um and I didn't win that year. I made it into the top, we do like a top six, and I didn't win that year. And then the following year we did Ragtime and I was Sarah, and I won that year, and then I got to go to the Jimmies.

[5:11] Gennean Scott: Yeah. Awesome. And so in what ways did working on that show prepare you for your path, you know, to the Jimmies?

[5:21] Amina Faye: Yeah. Um, you know, first off, I think going back to like having parents that are not from here and being trying to immerse yourself within an art form where you don't necessarily see a lot of people that look like you, or uh so it was it was a battle. I knew I liked theater, I knew that I was getting good opportunities, I knew I was somewhat decent at it, but I didn't necessarily see a path I could point at and be like, this is my path, nor could I show it to my parents more importantly, you know, because they're coming here, they immigrated here, they know what it's like to have to struggle to like recalibrate, and so growing up they just wanted their kids to not have to go through that. So they're like doctor lawyer, you know, that's how you always hear like immigrant parents talk about those things.

Cause and so I didn't know, and so honestly, the Jimmies was like the first time I think that I was exceeding at such a large scale, and this was something I could point to my parents, and they could see it. I didn't even have to show it to them. I think that experience just really opened up my eyes and also their eyes, and I think it gave us all the confidence, the confidence for them to support me in it, and then the confidence in myself to actually go for it. Um, and so the Jimmies was just great. I always call it like it's like the like the high school Tony's. It just it feels so grand and big. Um, and so being a part of that, I it really was like, I was like, I think I can do this. Um, and then playing Sarah specifically, um, you know, the that you know, Sarah's such an iconic role that was, you know, um set by Audra McDonald.

And so, you know, that was someone too that opened my eyes too to be like, wow, like here's a woman who looks like me and look what she's done, you know, and so it felt amazing to kind of step into that sh into that into her shoes in a sense um so yeah it was really eye-opening for me all of it.

[7:05] Gennean Scott: You know Amina we are not so far removed in you know the immigrant and the the um those African American you know who are here in that our parents are like doctor lawyer you know uh something steady something stable not the arts exactly and so like you gave you just gave you gave me chills in talking about that because I know so many young people you know like like yourself and I still consider myself young yes amen you know I still I know so many so many of us who for fear of not necessarily not making it but fear of disappointing our parents and what it is that they had set for us and so but you are not only like oh I'm pretty good at it you are like amazing hello.

[7:05] Amina Faye: Oh I mean I appreciate that and yes so I mean it's it's obvious that your parents like heard you open your mouth I went back through and I'm looking at some I was like oh my god okay okay okay I'm blushing I'm blushing so it is no surprise that you won the Jimmy award for best performance by an actress in 2016. What has that experience been like post Jimmy's?

[8:53] Amina Faye: You know? Yeah, well, first off, I made so many friends just during that one week with like people that to this day um I keep up with. We didn't go to the same college. There's some people I haven't even seen like physically since, but um, I still know these people, I still keep up with them. Um, and I as I had said before, I'm Muslim, and there was also a Muslim um other uh contestant the the year that I was there. His name is Muhammad, he's from Houston, he's so dope, and so we keep up with each other, and that was really cool too. Um, to see like another person, you know, another part of my identity also represented in this.

[9:31] Gennean Scott: Exactly.

[9:31] Amina Faye: Um, so that was amazing. And then also, you know, it's a great way to just get a lot of eyes on you. And there are people from the Jimmies to this day, professional relationships that I developed because they saw me there and kept and kept up with me. Um, and you know, and even the agents that I have now, you know, they were first introduced to me at the Jimmy's. Um, and because I was that person like I won the Jimmy's, and like right after, you know, that like you had amazing um casting directors such as you know, Telsi and Tara Rubin, even Tara Rubin, um, she cast me in Six. Yeah, I you know, and she was there, she was one of the judges the year that I was there, and now you know I'm in Six.

As soon as you win, you kind of get like your emails flooded with with a lot of you know things uh happening, especially now. Like, because the Jimmies was a thing, but now it's a thing. I mean, it's crazy that you know, 2016 was not too long ago, but just within that time, it is a thing now. But I was very much like, I'ma get my college degree. Uh no matter what, this industry is not going anywhere. If these people were interested in me in me, they'll be interested in me four years later when I actually know what I'm doing too, you know. You know, um you know, um, so I think that's another beautiful thing is that those uh relationships both pro specifically professionally they still withstood four years of time. Um and I that's a point that I wanted to make too but yeah a lot. It was just a great way to just get myself out into the ether into the world.

[11:02] Gennean Scott: And so you study musical theater at Penn State University where you were cast in Caroline or Change.

[11:02] Amina Faye: Absolutely love.

[11:11] Gennean Scott: I know and uh Love and Hate Nation and in the role of Susanna's son.

[11:16] Amina Faye: Yes which you would later go on to play in the world premiere at Two River Theater.

[11:23] Gennean Scott: Yes good Lord lady how did your career so you know you said you could have either went one you could have went straight to Broadway type of route or you could have gone to the took the collegiate route.

[11:35] Amina Faye: Yeah.

[11:36] Gennean Scott: How did that collegiate route help better prepare you?

[11:40] Amina Faye: I mean and not that not that there's anything wrong with that collegiate route but how did it prepare you as Amina?

[11:46] Amina Faye: Exactly it was the best thing for me. A number one I needed to learn how to be confident and for me knowledge is power and I needed knowledge because one thing about theater that I think is beautiful one thing you can't teach is just natural instincts that natural God given talent um but you can definitely have these skills to kind of harness your power and harness your knowledge and that's what I was missing. And so college was the perfect place for me to like just immerse myself within the world of theater. I mean, doing all kinds of things that I never even thought I would be doing. You know, I didn't go to college sopranoing. I was like, I belt, I don't know what soprano is. I left sopranoing. I mean, all of these things I learned and got to kind of add all these weapons to like my my arsenal, you know. Um, and in that, Penn State is really cool because um the head of the program, John Sipkins, he um runs a program, it's called like the New Musicals program.

[12:49] Amina Faye: So every year he commissions a writer or writers from New York City, brings them to Penn State, they meet the current senior class, and throughout the year they get to know each other and they write a musical based on the class. Um, and so my freshman year, the writer was Joey Conis, who also did Be More Chill on Broadway. Um, and he came in, he wrote a musical for that current senior class called Love and Hate Nation. And throughout the year, they kind of by the end of the year, they kind of get like a rough stage reading of it. And then the following year, they do a main stage full production of it. So all the seniors left, bye-bye. And I was a sophomore at the time, and I got to play the title role in the show, Susanna's Son, and it was the best experience of my life.

Um, it kind of gave me this thirst, and I have this thirst for new works because even now I'm a part of a mega musical, you know, Six. A lot of the conversations that have happened in that show happened prior to me getting there. So I got there and they said, "This is what you do." But I'm not privy to why I have to do it. When you are a part of a new musical, you are part of everything, you know everything. I was privy to all kinds of information to the reasons why I have to go stage left or I have to sing it this way. You're part of the fundamental foundation of this musical, and it literally gave me the bug. I love the new musical bug; I only want to work on new musicals for the rest of my life, honestly.

Um, and so I got to be a part of that, and then in 2020, early 2020, my first semester of senior year, I left for the semester and I got to do the world premiere at Two River Theater, and I mean that was amazing too. That was like my first professional contract. I hadn't done anything outside of Penn State, and it was amazing. I was doing it, and it was so amazing that I was still in college. Seldom do you get to apply what you're learning and apply it to the real world and then get to go back. So I get to workshop things; I got to be like, "Oh, I learned how to do this in college," I go do it at night, and then I'm like, "Wait, that doesn't work." I get to go back to my theater teachers and professors and have conversations. It was amazing.

[14:10] Gennean Scott: Well, let me tell you, my daughter and I have seen Six probably six times.

[14:10] Amina Faye: No way!

[14:10] Gennean Scott: Yes way! Look, to the point where she's like, "When are we gonna go back?" I'm like, "Girl, I know the choreography."

[15:51] Amina Faye: You sure do! We listen to the soundtrack. I mean, when I—she is a—and the story, the empowerment, you know, that comes in it and the strength in telling the story. So I definitely understand the love and the fanfare, and she—so I just want to say that it's a wonderful new musical.

[16:18] Amina Faye: You were cast in Love and Hate, which you talked about, Love and Hate Nation. Um, and the story is about two girls who meet in Juvie Hall in the 60s and attempt to break out of the boxes that society has created for them.

[16:35] Gennean Scott: Yeah. Can you talk about what that story means to you and how it resonates with you as a Black woman and as the first generation?

[16:48] Amina Faye: Yeah, um, that show was honestly so therapeutic for me. Um, because in a lot of ways, we took what a Black woman is supposed to be and look like, especially in the 60s, and we got to flip it on its head. Never did I think that as a dark-skinned Black woman, my quirkiness would be celebrated. I mean, my quirkiness was celebrated and it was put at the forefront. Like that show kind of opened me up to like I can be quirky and I can be aloof and goofy, and that was so therapeutic for me. And um, I feel like that whole experience is summed up by like the big song that Susanna sings before the end of Act One, it's called "I Hope." And um, the start of the song is like every girl has seen the picture in the picture books.

Um, and it tells you what the picture books look like, and then she goes, like, "I wish I was the lady in the picture books." And so I can, to this day, like even Amina in her, you know, adulthood as a 25-year-old, I'm still challenging myself to be like, I see this picture book, I see what life looks like. I see what society paints as successful, as beautiful, etc., etc. And I have to challenge it and be like, this is what it looks like, but I also look like all those things, and I don't look like that. So it's one thing to wish that you want to conform, and it's another thing to be like, I don't need to conform. I can very much make my own lane, celebrate who I am, and still be successful, still be beautiful, still be, you know, etc., etc. And that show was that; it was just like so empowering, and I loved it.

I learned so much about myself. Um, I have a friend that said the other day who said, like, at this point, so many of the things in my life that I have gotten, I never dreamed. So at this point, like I feel like if I dream it, it's too small. And that's really stuck with me because like that show, I would have never dreamt something like that. It exceeded everything, and it was like the amazing, perfect first introduction as Amina, as you know, a lead in a show. Um, getting to just be her true authentic self, like a version of herself.

[19:18] Gennean Scott: I love that show. Oh my god, to hear you speak of it, I'm just like, okay, I need my daughter to see this.

[19:26] Amina Faye: Yeah, it's on iTunes, so listen to it. The music is great. It's like got a 60s feel. I mean, we're doing all kinds of stuff on it. Um, so listen to it, yeah, it's on iTunes and Spotify.

[19:37] Gennean Scott: Oh, I will. We will, we will, we will add it to our Six Spotify.

[19:40] Amina Faye: Yes.

[19:43] Gennean Scott: So you're currently in Six and you are Jane Seymour.

[19:50] Amina Faye: I, by the way, I love her song.

[19:52] Gennean Scott: Um, yeah.

[19:53] Amina Faye: Yes. What has that experience been like for you being on tour?

[19:58] Amina Faye: Whoa, it's hard. Um, it's really hard. I always say, I really feel like, you know, this will maybe be the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. It's that like saying, like, if you walk the walk, you need to, if you talk the talk, you need to walk the walk, or something like that. And so it's one thing to be in a show about women empowerment and like embody, because the thing with Six is that like it's so cool the concept of we’re playing actual women who existed in history, but we're twisting it and we're also adding the layer of this contemporariness. So Jane Seymour, the style she's singing in is the Adele, you know, big ballad. But also, I am channeling Beyoncé. I am channeling Lizzo, I'm channeling Rihanna, I'm channeling like all these women who go up on stage in a bodysuit, and for three hours people watch them, and you believe them.

And so I was like, how am I gonna play this role? How am I gonna go across America telling everyone, "Look at me, pick me, I'm fierce," if I don't believe it? That was like the biggest thing for all of us. Um, because this show, it's hard, you know. It's like we're singing, we're dancing, we've got on our costumes. Aragon, her costume is 15 pounds, you know, like they look heavy.

[21:21] Amina Faye: They are heavy, they are. Um, and then, you know, and then we're in the heels, you know. So it's like it's a lot of things, and you're like, I feel heavy, I'm in heels, I've got the wig and the makeup, the lights. It's, you know, it's the grandest thing ever. And you have to feel like you are a part of the grandness, and that was like the hardest thing for me because I like to walk around the world and like make sure I'm small, make sure I'm not getting in anyone's way. And this is a show that's like, "No, like I'm putting myself out there, I'm taking my space." Um, it's a show where we're telling women, we're telling, you know, people take up the space, like this is your space. And I think all of us as actors, as young women, we also, as we're telling people that, are learning how to do that ourselves, so that's been the kind of the hardest thing.

Um, but then, you know, it's amazing to kind of travel around the world. Uh, you know, I grew up in North Carolina where like a lot of the times, like I, um, you know, I didn't get to go to New York. New York wasn't always accessible to go see shows, so um, a lot of my education and um like the watering of my theatrical, you know, brain was done by these touring companies that came to Charlotte and brought it, and the fact that I get to be a part of it now, it's almost like I get to pay my dues back to like the little Amina's that are, you know, thirsty for this and um and are getting theater in the comfort of their home in their town. So I love that part of it, but it is hard, you know, it's really hard. Um, you know, you do eight shows a week, and on Monday would be your day off. I'm on a plane, I'm traveling to the next place, and that's really hard.

[23:11] Gennean Scott: Yeah.

[23:12] Amina Faye: Oh, so you mentioned Beyoncé, and so I heard that at some point during your rehearsal process, you all gathered to watch Beyoncé's 2018 Coachella performance.

[23:26] Amina Faye: We sure did. Watching one of the masters, like you said, take up space. You know, you can totally see her impact on the world of theater, but also in this musical Six. So it's funny that you mentioned that because when I—well, obviously at the beginning, um, I was just like, okay, like you can identify, you can be like, "Oh, okay, this kind of reminds you of Beyoncé," and like you said, you're, you know, reminds you of Adele. And then the Rihanna, you know, get down. It's like, okay, you know, it's like, yeah, all right. So um, and you can see the icons, you know, coming through you all, through all you ladies, and so it's amazing.

[24:18] Gennean Scott: Um, so before we wrap up, I have two questions. One, um, are there any mentors or artists that you look up to that inspire you?

[24:33] Amina Faye: Oh yeah, I mean, every day, I mean, both, you know, within the musical theater world and outside of it. Um, Beyoncé definitely is an inspiration. I mean, her work ethic alone, like aside from just artisticness, like that go-getter hustle mentality of like creating your own lane and working at your full potential is so inspiring. Um, so I'm definitely inspired by that. Um, I love Frank Ocean a lot, and so I know some people are mad at him about the Coachella thing. We're gonna have to forgive him about it, guys. Um, but you know, I'm just like that artisticness. He's like someone who's just artistic. I'm inspired by SZA, and then also from a theatrical, you know, musical theater standpoint. Um, of course, Audra McDonald. Um, of course, um, there's a girl who, um, a woman who she was in Six too.

[25:33] Amina Faye: Maybe you got to see her, her name is Brie Jackson. Um, she was Aragon for a little bit, and I've never met her. She probably doesn't even know me, but I've definitely like followed her career, and I'm definitely inspired by that. Um, you know, I'm inspired by all the greats. I'm inspired by honestly anything, and I think that's the beautiful thing about art. It's like intersectional, like, um but yeah, and mentors, uh, you know, I that's one thing that I used to put a lot of pressure on myself to be like, I need to find one. Um but you know, she or he will come. Um, I definitely had a uh a theater teacher uh in college. His name was Wendell Franklin, um, and he definitely is someone uh like uh he is a mentor to me.

I I look up to him. Um, he's a straight actor, but I learned a lot from him, and I learned a lot about I just learned a lot from him, and then also Story. Um, she also her name's Story Ayers. Um, she's also been a great person to have in my life to have in my corner. But yeah, yeah, yeah, awesome. And so my last question. Uh what one piece of advice do you have uh for the future black leaders of Broadway?

[26:47] Amina Faye: Oof. Um I guess I have to think about that. My it's talk to little Amina. Oh, um a little Amina would tell little Amina that like feelings aren't facts, right? Um I love that because fear is strong, and fear will make you feel like it's a fact, you can't do it, but it's not a fact, it's just a feeling, and it it surpasses. So knowledge is power, preparation is power. When you are prepared, when you are knowledgeable, when you educate yourself, no one can sway you because you know it's a it's a guttural thing, right? So I would tell myself, knowledge is power, Amina, and feelings aren't facts, they're just feelings, and they they they move, you know. So don't take your fear as like word. It's not you can transcend again, you know. Um, you can transcend and fight against it. Um, I feel like fear held me back for a while. Um, you know what? That is awesome advice, honestly, fear. Fear, fear, yeah. Fear holds a lot of people back, regardless of your age.

[28:07] Amina Faye: Yes, regardless of your age. It holds a lot of folks back. Scary, it's scary. It is, it is scary, but you gotta have you gotta have faith. Gotta have faith in in who you are and uh and those around you, you know. I I would also like to say too, one other thing is like one thing I've learned is like giving yourself grace. Like the grace I I realize I give a lot of people grace, but I don't give it to myself. Um, so you really need to learn to like be kind to yourself and like be your biggest supporter. Um because that's all you got at the end, you know.

[28:47] Gennean Scott: Yeah. Well, Amina, it has been fabulous talking to you. I hope I get to see you in person because you have such a beautiful spirit, and thank you. I like adore you. Like now I'm like, oh I want to like hug you, but I can't. You are you are amazing, and I thank you. I thank you for all that you have done and for all that you will do, and uh for for young people who are who will look up to you, no doubt. You will be the Audra in Oh, look, look, my stomach started hurting when you said that already.

[29:28] Amina Faye: No, no, we have to we have to speak things, right?

[29:31] Gennean Scott: Yeah, we do, thank you. Thank you.

[29:34] Gennean Scott: Stay tuned for part two of this episode featuring John Clay the Third. I have with me Broadway and television star John Clay the Third. Prior to making his Broadway debut as Anthony Justin, AJ James, and Terrell Alvin's McCranie's Choir Boy, he was a musical theater student at Carnegie Mellon University. He is also a 2013 Jimmy Awards nominee. Some of his theater and television credits include A Raisin in the Sun, Grand Hotel, and Power Book 3 Raising Canaan. John can currently be seen in New York, New York here on Broadway. Welcome, John.

[30:17] John Clay III: Thanks for having me. It's good to be here.

[30:19] Gennean Scott: So I want to talk a little bit about how you got your start uh on Broadway. What um can you share a little bit about what inspired you to even go into the arts?

[30:46] John Clay III: Hmm. Um, I come from a pretty musical family, like my sister. Uh she's been a backup singer for a long time. My dad used to play piano. Um, my aunt also sings, like, sings down. Uh, so I come from a pretty musical family, and that was pretty daunting to like follow in their footsteps. So I was just like always pretty hesitant to to sing. I didn't want to do anything and like be in their shadow. So it was just weird trying to find my own lane. So I stuck with like, you know, sports for a while and wanted to do that, and secretly had like a love for singing and things. And uh I just it was just always hard for me to find a place where I could be creative but not be in the shadow of my family members.

And so I found like this weird thing called musical theater. And I was like, oh, okay. Uh I had randomly saw uh Grease uh randomly randomly being the first musical I was ever in. And I just I don't know, I just fell in love with like the joy that they had doing what they were doing. And and I was also the music was catchy, so you know, and my mom always used to randomly sing randomly hopelessly devoted to you and Olivia Newton John, it would just be like, and my mom isn't necessarily a singer, but I could tell how much she like enjoyed that and I sort of like got that same joy from watching her. And so I'd say it grew from me just trying to find my own lane because I always knew I wanted to be do something with you know entertainment or sports or something in that, you know, in that it in that in those terms, but I just never didn't I never could figure out what it actually was.

And musical theater just seemed like the perfect meld of me being able to do all the entertaining that I wanted to do and act and actually, you know, play like I'm a basketball player or play like I'm a football player, right? But not necessarily have to go through the rigorous schedule and the rigorous training of being, you know, the part of the one percent of of those people who actually get to do those careers.

[32:35] Gennean Scott: Yeah, well, I'll tell you, as a mom, um I I I I would be glad that you didn't have to go through getting hit and stuff like that in football.

[32:45] John Clay III: Yeah, my mom was not about it either.

[32:48] Gennean Scott: So I uh you know, as a mother, I thank you.

[32:53] Gennean Scott: So I know that you participated in the Broadway League's Jimmy Awards.

[32:58] John Clay III: Yeah.

[32:59] Gennean Scott: Can you talk a little bit about that experience and and your journey with the Jimmies?

[33:06] John Clay III: Uh the Jimmies was a weird place in my life. Uh I was I was oddly like super confident because by that point I had already gotten to Carnegie Mellon for a musical theater. And for someone that looks like me, it's kind of, you know, difficult to do. And so I was kind of smelling myself. And I got to the Jimmy's, and then I saw all these Uber talented, like 17-year-olds, and it's like, oh, I'm not I'm not a big fish in a small pond, like I'm actually like out here with people who really really do this and who really take this stuff seriously. And it just I learned a lot about you know how to market myself and how to actually what people see me as rather than what I see myself as, and how do I get people to meet me in the middle, you know?

And it was just like I came in there and sang like you know, old classics of like rag time, and every nobody wanted to see a 17-year-old saying rag time, and I it was hard for me to actually like let that register because I was like, I'll connect with this work, like this is I'm this is one of the only parts out there that's actually written for somebody like me, and things like that, and it's just like there's just like not much for a strong black man to do in musical theater without being stereotypical. Right, you know, and and so it was just like I didn't really have much to pull from, at least to my knowledge, and then I got there and Michael McIlroy like opened my eyes to like all these different, you know, that there is more out there than what I thought, and like how I could make traditional white songs black because at the end of the day, whatever I sing is black because I am black, exactly.

And so, and I it was weird because at that time I had been in high school and doing a lot of white musicals, and uh people were writing letters to my school saying, like hey, you you're casting a black Beljon, like what are you doing? And yeah, so I know exactly.

[35:04] John Clay III: What?

[35:05] Gennean Scott: Yeah, I know go on.

[35:11] John Clay III: So it's just like it was it was an eye-opening experience to see somebody who one went to Carnegie Mellon, two, was extremely talented, and three was just open to ushering me in and opening my eyes to more possibilities and not pigeonholing myself in a way and understanding that whatever I do is gonna be black and I can it's it's gonna be received because I am honoring the work in the best way I see fit.

[35:37] Gennean Scott: Wow. You know what what state where were you where were you from?

[35:43] John Clay III: I'm from Chicago, but um I went to high school in this suburb called Oak Park.

[35:48] Gennean Scott: Oh I know Oak Park?

[35:50] John Clay III: It's an incredible, incredible high school, which is and they're they pretty forward thinking, like it's a nice little liberal bubble, but uh certain parents can be a little jealous about their kids not getting the roles that they wanted, and you know, yeah.

[36:03] Gennean Scott: Just it is what it is.

[36:04] John Clay III: Yeah, no, no, I no, I do I know Oak Park, and you know what, your school is progressive because they didn't care you know about those letters that were being received, and they gave you that opportunity to you know to to be you and to and to um present that work. So, you know, shout out to Oak Park.

[36:27] Gennean Scott: So was this always your dream, you know, though, Broadway? I know you talked about you wanted to meld, you know, you knew you wanted to meld this type of thing, but you know, there's regional theater, but so was Broadway your dream or film any sort of uh acting any sort of entertainment for me after like when I did my first musical after that's my dreams I could have gone down so many different paths, like I wanted to be a crimson law, I wanted to do that when I was a sophomore in high school uh I I wanted to literally oh my God wow I'm just the random things I wanted to be I w I wanted to do forensic science which is so random um and then randomly when I got really deep into musical theater and this makeup lady at my school Mrs. Cheney my junior year of uh high school she was like hey what are you thinking about for college like have you decided are you gonna actually do sports?

Are you gonna do musical theater? Like what's happening? It's about time to start thinking about that. And she was I was like Yeah I guess you're right. Like I hadn't thought about it at all. Um and she was like well here's a pre-college program for Carnegie Mellon we have a connection there for um someone can get that can get you into admissions for the pre-college program. And so I ended up going there and understanding that like oh this is hard work. Like this is a lot of work and two I think I can do this. I think I can stomach this because like I actually love the process. Like I love the work. And it's weird because Broadway is a very money driven industry.

[38:12] John Clay III: It's not about the work. It's not about the art. It's about what's gonna get people in seats. And so it's a weird juxtaposition to be in as an artist to want Broadway because I do want to be there because I want as many eyes on my work as possible. Uh but at the end of the day it's like a give and take of like how much artistic freedom and artistic expression can I have while also living a livable age. You know, it's a weird balance. And so was Broadway always a dream? I mean, yeah, in terms of getting as many eyes on my work as possible, but the business side of it, no. It was not yeah, driven more by the art itself.

[38:56] Gennean Scott: Yeah. I understand that. I understand that. So but you ended up going to Carnegie Mellon University and where you studied musical theater and clearly you were successful. Can you talk a little bit about that experience in the conservatory art school and how it prepared you for this industry?

[39:18] John Clay III: Oh my God. I mean to this day, nothing has been harder than my four years there. Wow. Like I feel like they overprepared me in terms of what it means to how to navigate a rehearsal space, how to navigate now life is different like that is something that I that no one can teach you. Like you just gotta learn it on your own. But in terms of how to operate in a rehearsal room and how to be on time and how to you know dissect a script like I can do that. Like I can do that super easy. Um that's second nature. But uh I'd say that they really really helped me hone my obsession with this craft. Like they really helped me dive even deeper than into depths that I didn't even know were possible and allow me to break down my own barriers that I've created to survive and be a black man in Chicago and seeing how that inhibited my freedom and how I expressed my art.

[40:16] Gennean Scott: Well, and look if we look at one of your works, um, Choir Boy, you know, you talk about being a a a black man. Choir Boy is a story that follows five young black men um coming of age in a prep school uh as they explore their own identities uh in the face of racism, uh sexism, homophobia. Um what did it mean to you to tell that story on such a major stage?

[40:50] John Clay III: Uh I mean, it meant the world. Like that stuff is that don't come around that often where the art is actually good and it's well received. Like it just was like the perfect storm in a way. Like and to be on stage with all my black brothers and exposing my community, like my story to all these different types of people in the audience, like it was very empowering. And I got to like, you know, through the building my my age and my character, right where rarely do characters teach you and make you a better person. Rarely are you able to take things from a role and apply them to your actual life, and it actually is for good. Like sometimes we in art we love to put you know pretty messed up people on stage and to see the messed up parts of themselves and ourselves, and we start to like sort of like you know, relate to that.

Right. But to play such a, you know, a warm guy who was just, you know, he had his problems, but at the end of the day, the goal was to just be a great friend. And and and the journey to being a great friend wasn't necessarily the smoothest, but the goal was always the same, and to take that into my my own life was just like it did insane you know benefits for me because I was able to foster relationships that actually mattered in my life and let go of the ones that didn't necessarily you know benefit or help either parties so right um yeah it was just it was literally the perfect storm like beautiful show beautiful choreography yeah like it was so much fun.

[42:03] Gennean Scott: Yeah and so you you've done that you've you you you're conquering the stage and then you go and you start working on Power Book 3 um working alongside another Carnegie Mellon University alumna uh and Tony Award uh winning actress Patina Miller what was that like and what was that transition like?

[42:03] John Clay III: I mean into the you mean into the TV yeah yeah uh-huh yeah from Broadway to TV you know and going back and forth because we see a lot of um we see a lot of artists doing that you know that's the dream that's always the goal because of the flexibility to the schedule to being able to because primarily my goal is to have a family and that's why I'm literally getting married in next week.

[43:28] Gennean Scott: Congratulations!

[43:28] John Clay III: But um the transition from TV and from Broadway to TV wasn't necessarily a difficult one in terms of my acting process it was just difficult because they're just more, you know, there are more barriers and more people that have to sign off on you in TV and film than in Broadway. And more people have to trust you because you're dead. There's just so much more money at stake and so much more, you know, it's just a different business. And names are they sell it. And they do on Broadway as well, but you can take more of a chance in those particular at least people do more of that. But in terms of the transition personally, it was more difficult because I had booked the job literally two months before my dad passed.

And he was in like not necessarily the greatest shape. He was uh he had stomach cancer. And uh it was weird to have to leave him uh to go do the job. And on my first day on set was literally the last time I talked to him. And so it was just like a it was a weird personal transition for me because I had lost, you know, my namesake. Like I lost the person who, you know, uh who I always wanted to please and like I always wanted to. Right. He loved the show. I love this show. You know, like we used to watch this show. And so it's just like it was just like a bittersweet moment because he said that he claimed that role for me. Like when I said he played for it, and like he said, God, he knew God was gonna give it to me.

Um it was just like a very a weird juxtaposition of like celebrating this huge win, but also losing, you know, a huge part of myself in the process. And yeah, it was it was it was pretty it was pretty difficult in that aspect of transitioning.

[44:07] Gennean Scott: Yeah.

[44:07] John Clay III: Uh, but in terms of Patina, man, like sis held it down for me every day. I learned a lot from her. Like till this day I'm learning a lot from her.

[45:42] Gennean Scott: Yeah.

[45:42] John Clay III: Like she literally helped me in so many different ways on that set. And not just from an acting standpoint, but from honestly figuring out a way to propose to my fiance that I have right now. So like it's she really helped me out with that type of stuff. So I'm uh I'm very grateful for our relationship.

[45:59] Gennean Scott: And that's awesome. That's awesome. And and you are you are truly honoring your your father. So, you know, congratulations and um congratulations because you seem to be navigating both worlds very well because now you are on New York and New York so you know, so it's it's you're you are working and you're and you're doing it and you're and you're doing it authentically. And I think that's um I think that's most important, especially for people who look like us. It's um it's real easy to and I think you said this earlier or alluded to this earlier, it's easy to slip into the um the stereotypical roles and it's easy to um to take jobs that are that are like that that don't authentically um represent the depth of you know of a of who we are as a people. Um so you know, congratulations. You you really are you are doing you are doing it all so you know, hats off.

[47:16] Gennean Scott: Um so looking ahead, what do you what do you what do you see yourself? Obviously married next week.

[47:28] John Clay III: But what else do you see? What do you got where else do you see yourself? You know, where would you like this journey to go?

[47:35] John Clay III: I mean, right now, I just I I just want a family first. Like I just need to my cause I always feel like if my foundation is is strong, everything else will fall in place. Like if my house is in order, everything else is gonna be fine. So I'm just like trying to make sure that like I'm building my life right in order for me to actually have work, a career, you know, and so I just need some a safe space to come back to when dealing with all the craziness of this industry and like how bipolar this place can be. And so I just need some sort of state to build some sort of something stable and some sort of like haven. And like um, I feel like that's my next goal for sure. And then after that, you know, I definitely want to continue to do what I've been doing, but and larger role opportunities in terms of switching back and forth from TV to film to uh Broadway, all three mediums, music at one point if possible. It's really just the sky's the limit. I just want to be able to do what I love as much as possible.

[48:41] Gennean Scott: Awesome, awesome. And you know, that's biblical right there, so it it it will it will be. So what is one piece of advice you'd like to share with the future black leaders of Broadway?

[49:00] John Clay III: Oh one piece of advice I'd like to share. Nobody knows your voice better than you. And it's a tricky thing artistically to navigate your voice and try not to offend people and try not to become too hard or too strong or too brittle or too anything. Whatever the outside judgment word you want to put on it. Your voice is your voice, and only you know what you need to strengthen your power in your voice. And so it's a scary thing because we always look for this validation from other people and how to guide us and things like that. But they're there to help guide you, but at the end of the day, the real person who's making the decisions is you. And you have to listen to what's gonna keep you not happy, because happy is temporary. What's gonna bring you the most joy? Like what's gonna give you, keep you as joyous as possible. And if you if you answer that yes and you're not hurting anybody else and doing it, then I say keep doing it.

[50:09] Gennean Scott: Awesome. Well, thank you, John, and congratulations.

[50:15] John Clay III: Thank you.

[50:16] Gennean Scott: I'd like to thank my guest, Amina Faye and John Clay the Third for participating in this episode of the Black Business of Broadway. I want to thank our guests and you, our listeners. You could have been doing anything else, but you chose to spend your time with me, and I am grateful. Be sure to subscribe at BPN.fm slash BBB. So you'll never miss an episode. While you're at it, tell a friend. I'm your host, Gennean Scott, and we at the Broadway League hope you enjoyed this episode of the Black Business of Broadway.