This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:05] Jesse McAnally: Hello, I'm Jesse McAnally.

[0:08] Andrew DeWolf: And I'm Andrew DeWolf.

[0:10] Liz Eston: And I'm Liz Eston. And welcome to Musicals, which actually, Andrew, why don't you introduce our show really quick?

[0:18] Andrew DeWolf: You'd like me to introduce the show?

[0:20] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, yeah.

[0:22] Andrew DeWolf: Oh. We're uh we're musicals with.

[0:25] Jesse McAnally: Yo, yo, Andrew, I'm really, I'm really happy for you. I'm gonna let you finish, but I want you to know the theater podcast is one of the best podcasts of all time.

[0:27] Andrew DeWolf: One of the best podcasts of all time.

[0:36] Jesse McAnally: A podcast where I try to get Jess and Liz to like Taylor Swift.

[0:44] Andrew DeWolf: This episode is our last recorded episode. We're going to die after this release.

[0:49] Jesse McAnally: Oh, yeah, we have been uh publicly beheaded.

[0:52] Andrew DeWolf: Um, suicide by Swift.

[0:59] Jesse McAnally: Um yeah, um, I guess this is a good time to say, if you are an enormous Swift, come into this episode with a bit of an open mind and understand that perhaps me and Andrew are not the target audience for this material, but we're gonna talk about it anyway, because we've got a platform and you don't, nah na na na.

[1:18] Andrew DeWolf: Um god, you're already making the book.

[1:24] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[1:25] Andrew DeWolf: If you sit this one out.

[1:27] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, we won't talk about Taylor Swift ever again, I swear to God.

[1:30] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, I mean.

[1:44] Jesse McAnally: He's broken every human law.

[1:47] Andrew DeWolf: Breaks the law of gravity.

[1:50] Jesse McAnally: His pals of levitation make a fake step.

[1:57] Andrew DeWolf: They reached the scene of crime.

[2:00] Jesse McAnally: The cavities not there.

[2:02] Andrew DeWolf: She was in the Cats movie.

[2:05] Jesse McAnally: Cavities are misbecat.

[2:07] Andrew DeWolf: No one cares about even the Swifties don't even care about it.

[2:09] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, exactly. They don't even like that movie.

[2:12] Andrew DeWolf: Do you know why I don't fear the Swifties?

[2:14] Jesse McAnally: Because the Swifties very well could have made the Cats movie a hit, and they decided not to.

[2:19] Andrew DeWolf: They chose not to.

[2:21] Jesse McAnally: Like their queen was in that movie.

[2:23] Andrew DeWolf: She was a different Taylor Swift back then, so in 2019 versus 2020.

[2:28] Jesse McAnally: Are you?

[2:29] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[2:30] Jesse McAnally: She's come.

[2:31] Andrew DeWolf: She's coming off of the Kardashian Kanye bullshit.

[2:35] Jesse McAnally: Um, in case you haven't picked up what we're throwing down, this week on Musicals with Cheese, we are talking about Taylor Swift, the Eras Tour.

[2:43] Andrew DeWolf: Cure the music.

[2:49] Jesse McAnally: She feels funny. We're about to go on a little adventure together, and that adventure is gonna span 17 years of music. How does that sound?

[3:01] Andrew DeWolf: Welcome to the acoustic setting of heaven.

[3:11] Jesse McAnally: Are you ready for it? I'll jump back in the car.

[3:25] Andrew DeWolf: People come up to me and they'd be like, you gonna just like do a show with like all the albums in it? And I was like, yeah, it's good. It's gonna be called the Eras Tour. See you there.

[3:58] Jesse McAnally: So Taylor Swift The Eras Tour was directed by Sam Rench with music and lyrics mostly by Taylor Swift. Um the Eras Tour had its world premiere on October 11, 2023 at the Grove at Farmers Market, an open air mall complex, and in Los Angeles, California, with early previews showing on October 12th. It received a worldwide theatrical release in more than 100 countries and territories on October 13th, two weeks before the release of 1989 Taylor's version. While some countries and territories had a later premiere date of November 3rd and China and December 31st in 2023.

[4:39] Andrew DeWolf: And only on weekends. They did not play it during the week, which was interesting. Um this is a three-hour concert film. And before we go into that, let's all talk about our history with Taylor Swift.

[4:56] Jesse McAnally: If we have any.

[5:15] Andrew DeWolf: And I remember her Romeo and Juliet song. And that's about it.

[5:18] Liz Eston: Don't forget Cats.

[5:20] Andrew DeWolf: I don't have much.

[5:21] Liz Eston: Oh, right. Cats.

[5:23] Andrew DeWolf: No one cares about Cats.

[5:24] Liz Eston: Yeah. Taylor Swift has forgotten she was in Cats.

[5:27] Andrew DeWolf: Honestly, oh.

[5:29] Liz Eston: Um, Jesse, I'm sure your experience is much longer, more in depth.

[5:34] Jesse McAnally: It's a little deeper. Um, yeah. 15, uh, I think was really 15 was released the year I turned 15. So, uh I'm pretty sure. Or around the time I turned 15. Um, I was born in a weird time, so I'm like a little older than my grade.

[5:49] Andrew DeWolf: So same.

[5:50] Liz Eston: He was around the same.

[5:52] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. So I was 15 when Taylor Swift released that. So I'm prime market when she's starting. So I've listened to Taylor Swift basically my whole life until I turned like 20 something and stopped listening to her altogether. Cause I'm like, I'm I'll just I'm gonna listen to what I feel like. I'm not gonna listen to radio stuff all the time. But I I watching this, I won't go too deep right now, but watching this has kind of made me realize that because I grew up on Taylor Swift, when I hear any Taylor Swift song, I have an inherent sense of nostalgia run over my body. It's like when I listen to Glee covers. It's like I kinda like it. I know it's bad, but like I like it. Not to say Taylor Swift's songs are all bad.

They're some of them are pretty good, actually, but I enjoyed Taylor Swift more than I thought I did genuinely prior to this. And I'm not even saying that. I mean it genuinely. Like I just avoided her later work because I didn't like want to listen to it, but I'm like, oh, this is actually not bad. I kind of enjoy parts of this. So I'm on the I grew up with Taylor Swift. I kinda like her already, and I'm very nostalgic about the early era. So I listened to like Love Story and like mine and Enchanted a lot. Like on my own volition. So I'm not a Swift, but I enjoy her work in a passive way.

[7:14] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, that's that's fair enough. Um so my history with Taylor Swift stems all the way back to 2009 when she made a cameo in a little film titled Hannah Montana the movie.

[7:29] Liz Eston: Oh, did she really?

[7:30] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[7:31] Liz Eston: She did.

[7:32] Andrew DeWolf: Oh shit. I must have seen that too, because I feel like I've watched that.

[7:35] Jesse McAnally: Um it's not of uh it's not a long one. She just kind of goes on stage, and I'm pretty sure this is like one of her first like songs. It's called Crazier. And I remember this song, and I was like, Who's this little white girl in my movie about another little white girl? And somehow the cultural relevance of both of these little white girls are still equal as important. And I feel like Miley Cyrus and Taylor Swift are still very much in the cultural zeitgeist nearly like two decades later, and that's pretty impressive. Um that song was written for the Hannah Montana soundtrack by the book. Isn't that pretty cool?

[8:12] Liz Eston: Yeah.

[8:13] Andrew DeWolf: It was written in 2009. Polka dotted country.

[8:16] Jesse McAnally: Yes.

[8:17] Andrew DeWolf: That is her legacy.

[8:18] Jesse McAnally: Hip hop it.

[8:20] Andrew DeWolf: Country if I then hip hop it.

[8:23] Jesse McAnally: And then of course, she had her run where she started as a country singer, not a pop singer in the traditional way.

[8:28] Andrew DeWolf: She was like, uh well.

[8:31] Jesse McAnally: I'm from the same state as Taylor Swift. She's not country. She's from Reading, Pennsylvania. That is not country.

[8:36] Andrew DeWolf: Let me frame it this differently. She was marketed as a country singer and country music awards and all that kind of stuff.

[8:45] Jesse McAnally: Um, and her romance songs had a very big country twang to them. Um I think it's very arguable that she has never been country and she's always just been pop.

[8:58] Andrew DeWolf: That is an argument to be made.

[9:00] Jesse McAnally: The music never changed, the marketing did.

[9:02] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Well, also sometimes you can hear a little bit of the twang in there that she like sneaks through with a pop. That being said, I think that she inadvertently, by just standing there, partially caused the downfall of humanity through Kanye West. Let me explain. And I am not actually blaming her for this. I am hyperbolizing for comedy. Because we all know Can we are we allowed to talk about Kanye? Isn't this like a hate crime?

[9:29] Jesse McAnally: No, Kanye got worse since this happened.

[9:33] Andrew DeWolf: Well, I think this is part of what made him get worse. Now that he's Trump's running mate, which was just announced a couple days ago, as of the release of this episode.

[9:45] Jesse McAnally: Well, I think that this is actually connected to this. So you know that event where um Kanye went on stage, refused to let Taylor give a speech and claim that Beyonce deserved it, which is a fucked up thing to do. Uh I think country music, so thank you so much for giving me a chance to win a VMA award. I'm Taylor.

[10:09] Andrew DeWolf: I'm really happy for you.

[10:11] Jesse McAnally: I'll let you finish. But Beyonce had one of the best videos of all time.

[10:12] Andrew DeWolf: One of the best videos of all time.

[10:27] Jesse McAnally: You know who was caught on camera commenting on it and calling him a jackass? The young lady seems like a perfectly nice person. She's getting her award. What's he doing up there? He's a jackass.

[10:39] Andrew DeWolf: Barack Obama the next day. He's like, what is he doing? She seems like a lovely girl. Uh, what a jackass. Like, and I know Kanye saw that clip and was like, anything that's for this guy, I'm against. And therefore, the heavy-handed and traumatic endorsement of Donald Trump.

[10:58] Jesse McAnally: Oh god.

[10:59] Andrew DeWolf: I'm not. I do not want to get into the Super Bowl conspiracy in this episode.

[11:04] Jesse McAnally: We're not gonna talk about that.

[11:05] Andrew DeWolf: There's not enough time.

[11:06] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[11:07] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I don't actually watch football because I'm not really a Swift, so um, but then comes the point where uh Kanye West released a song where he claimed, like, I still think me and Taylor Swift might have sex. I made that bitch famous. I made that bitch famous. Um Taylor Swift was like, that was really inappropriate, didn't like that. Um, didn't get my permission for that. Kanye's kind of a terrible person. Fucking sucks in a lot of ways. Um then Kanye and his wife Kim Kardashian leaked the footage. Ex-wife, his then wife, Kim Kardashian, um, leaked the footage of him calling Taylor Swift Taylor's like, uh, okay, whatever, I guess, about him pitching that. And then they were like, she's a snake, she's a liar. And then Taylor Swift used all of that vitriol as branding for her next album, which I believe was Reputation.

[12:09] Jesse McAnally: Correct.

[12:10] Andrew DeWolf: Where she she is incredible at taking things that are lobbed at her and using it to her own gain. And I think that is truly one of the most fascinating aspects of her entire career. Aside from that, the other thing, and I I know I'm going on a rant, but I want to talk about this career because it's so fucking weird. This girl that started in the Hannah Montana movie has now got a I don't want to call it a cult, but a strangely obsessive sect of young women and men who pick apart her videos for hints and clues. I'm not making this up. The conspiracy talk about like the Super Bowl that we brought up is not unreasonable to think of considering the stuff that they pick apart in these videos, and specific things like she would be caught wearing this necklace out with Harry Styles, and when you see her wearing that necklace, and this means that she's talking about Harry Styles and things like that.

The paper plane necklace has a story. It all started with Harry Styles. He has one. And then Taylor starts wearing one when they begin dating. They break up, but then the paper plane stuck it was popping up. It's mentioned in Taylor's lyrics, and you could see one in her music video for style. Or there was a cancelled album called Karma, and when she didn't ask me anything, she asked, like, what do you want to tell your fans? Oh, karma is real. Um, and little shit like that that drives these people crazy. People have lost their fucking minds and need to go outside.

[13:42] Jesse McAnally: Really badly. Like, you need to touch grass. You need to sit, go find a park, just sit down, put your hands in the dirt, you know, like just for a little bit. I mean, and all this is before we even talk about, you know, the movie that we're the the music, the movie, the content. This is her impact on society. Where I'm sure she could swing this election whatever way the country needed if she just released an endorsement song. That is the power this woman has.

[14:17] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, she's already basically endorsed Biden's.

[14:19] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, she's endorsed Biden, yeah.

[14:20] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, but she ha I'm saying if she wrote a song and the Swifties got it caught in their head in the same way that they did um the song about the red scarf um that made them want to crucify Jake Joe and Hall.

[14:32] Jesse McAnally: Oh, all too well, yeah. That one.

[14:34] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[14:34] Jesse McAnally: The 10-minute song about Jake Gyllenhaal being a bit of a dick on her 21st birthday.

[14:40] Andrew DeWolf: What the fuck?

[14:41] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. You heard the song, didn't you?

[14:44] Andrew DeWolf: I heard her brag about the fact that it was 10 minutes long, which made me cringe, but well, there's a whole short film online of that song.

[14:52] Jesse McAnally: So which is her next career step. From those in the know, like Patrick Wilbs and a lot of people I know who have personally worked with Taylor Swift on her sets, she's pivoting to put herself as a film director next.

[15:07] Andrew DeWolf: She has a film that she's directing coming out next year. She has been in the director's conversations, like on whatever that variety stuff is.

[15:16] Jesse McAnally: She is trying to become a legitimate filmmaker within the next few years. And by her music videos, she seems to have a keen eye and an attention to detail that's really effective for that.

[15:30] Andrew DeWolf: But I wonder how that'll affect her fan base and what will come next. Will she run for president?

[15:36] Jesse McAnally: No.

[15:39] Andrew DeWolf: Will she be Biden's running mate?

[15:40] Jesse McAnally: I hope not. I don't think she's gonna run for president.

[15:43] Andrew DeWolf: Look, I know that people talk about her politics being decent, but she is a billionaire.

[15:48] Jesse McAnally: Yes.

[15:49] Andrew DeWolf: Like, no billionaire is good.

[15:51] Jesse McAnally: All billionaires are evil inherently. I'm sorry.

[15:54] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[15:55] Jesse McAnally: If you have a billion dollars, you are a bad person.

[15:57] Andrew DeWolf: Well, let's unpack that. We all know about her private jet usage and the controversy that that has brought up, where she has killed the environment so much and using her private jets because someone found that's not single to set her.

[16:13] Jesse McAnally: No, no, no, no, no, it's not just single. Taylor Swift has not ruined the environment.

[16:18] Andrew DeWolf: She just used her private jet a lot and has a lot of CO2 emissions coming from it.

[16:21] Jesse McAnally: Yes, and all billionaires.

[16:23] Andrew DeWolf: Like every rich person that has a private jet. It's not just Taylor.

[16:27] Jesse McAnally: It's not just Taylor, but Taylor Swift is the only one trying to sue someone for using private information or public information to say that she did this.

[16:35] Andrew DeWolf: Well, Elon Musk also did that. He said people were using his private jet information as a terrorist tracker or something.

[16:43] Jesse McAnally: Something Elon isn't is a madman, but he said something of that nature.

[16:48] Andrew DeWolf: Well, on the other side of Elon, Taylor Swift has brought the AI issue into Congress because of the horrendous AI porn being made of her.

[16:57] Jesse McAnally: Like, she is doing things that I think are a net good for society. We need to get AI porn off of everywhere.

[17:05] Andrew DeWolf: I think it is disgusting that it can be done to begin with.

[17:09] Jesse McAnally: I think we need to just get rid of AI art for a while.

[17:11] Andrew DeWolf: We definitely do. It's really bad.

[17:13] Jesse McAnally: It's not good.

[17:14] Andrew DeWolf: It was fun when you had like the Walk of Glasgow thing.

[17:18] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, yes.

[17:20] Andrew DeWolf: That might be the funniest news story of all time, though.

[17:23] Jesse McAnally: The picture of the Oompa Loompa, I can't even like I think it's Christy.

[17:30] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I will say there are pictures of her like playing with kids, and it's generally very sweet. So shout out to her. She did her best.

[17:36] Jesse McAnally: The pose for the picture though was perfect.

[17:41] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, the meme one fairy mood.

[17:44] Jesse McAnally: She did what she had to do.

[17:46] Andrew DeWolf: I love the videos of the fake Wonka going up to a mirror.

[17:51] Jesse McAnally: Oh, look, kids, it's the unknown.

[17:54] Andrew DeWolf: And just someone in a mask comes out.

[17:58] Jesse McAnally: What is that?

[17:59] Andrew DeWolf: It's the favorite part about the fake Wonka is he looks like Todd when he opened Disneyland on BoJack Horseman.

[18:11] Jesse McAnally: He's right in the same outfit.

[18:13] Andrew DeWolf: So the Eras Tour.

[18:14] Jesse McAnally: The Eras Tour, yes. Let's talk about this film itself.

[18:18] Andrew DeWolf: It's three hours long.

[18:20] Jesse McAnally: She sings songs from every era of her work.

[18:24] Andrew DeWolf: Which I had the dumb moment I tweeted about it. Was like, oh, that's why it's called the Eras Tour, because she has all these different eras of her career. Look at that.

[18:33] Jesse McAnally: I just can't do it with the ego though.

[18:39] Andrew DeWolf: Like, I know every pop star, every single pop star is like this.

[18:44] Jesse McAnally: And you know, like a woman that's confident, Andrew. Your career's like 20 years. You don't have eras. You have like five albums.

[18:52] Andrew DeWolf: Like, what are you talking about? Eras.

[18:54] Jesse McAnally: I don't know.

[18:55] Andrew DeWolf: Okay. I'm gonna make an argument here.

[18:59] Jesse McAnally: So I'm gonna make an argument for why this is called Eras.

[19:03] Andrew DeWolf: Taylor Swift's music changes basically every goddamn album.

[19:08] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[19:08] Andrew DeWolf: Like country, genuine country. Went to pop, went to like whatever the fuck reputation was.

[19:16] Jesse McAnally: Like, what the hell?

[19:17] Andrew DeWolf: I guess I have trouble distinguishing them though.

[19:20] Jesse McAnally: Like, for me, it was like it went from pop to pop to pop to pop to pop.

[19:25] Andrew DeWolf: And it was just like, these all kind of sound the same.

[19:27] Jesse McAnally: Like, I don't really, I can't.

[19:30] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[19:31] Jesse McAnally: I like the folk ones in between.

[19:34] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, you're good.

[19:34] Jesse McAnally: I like the folky ones. I think that was a good in-betweener on some of them.

[19:40] Andrew DeWolf: Just like break it down for a minute.

[19:42] Jesse McAnally: But I do agree, some of them do get mixed up in my head.

[19:45] Andrew DeWolf: Like I cannot tell a difference between some songs.

[19:47] Jesse McAnally: So I need to read a list.

[19:49] Andrew DeWolf: But I don't listen to Taylor Swift regularly, maybe that's why.

[19:51] Jesse McAnally: I think the ones that are the most distinguished to me are the country ones because those ones do sometimes have that twangy sound to them.

[20:00] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[20:01] Jesse McAnally: But after that, they all sound the same to me.

[20:04] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, just what you're gonna say.

[20:06] Jesse McAnally: I feel like you'd be able to hear the differences a lot more if this wasn't three fucking hours.

[20:13] Andrew DeWolf: Now that might be it too.

[20:15] Jesse McAnally: Like having to sit through it all back to back and it's all drowned out with like the constant screaming of the crowd at all times.

[20:23] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[20:24] Jesse McAnally: And it's just like, dang, these all sound the same.

[20:26] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know.

[20:27] Jesse McAnally: But also we watched this, the three of us. You watched this in our own rooms, or wherever room we watch stuff in, alone when a pro we didn't turn down the lights, we didn't have like we weren't in a theater with our friends.

[20:40] Andrew DeWolf: We were alone in a room in like the middle of the day in my case.

[20:44] Jesse McAnally: Like it's weird to be at a concert setting in that mode of life.

[20:50] Andrew DeWolf: I feel both very sad and very happy, like a happy sad that we didn't get to do this in theaters and experience that firsthand.

[21:00] Jesse McAnally: I avoided movies.

[21:02] Andrew DeWolf: I avoided movie theaters while this was in theaters.

[21:04] Jesse McAnally: I was like, I'm not going.

[21:06] Andrew DeWolf: What did I see? I saw some wild movie.

[21:09] Jesse McAnally: Oh, I saw Killers of the Flower Moon.

[21:11] Andrew DeWolf: And I just hear, they just gotta hate, hate, hate, hate next door.

[21:16] Jesse McAnally: Nothing like genocide and haters gonna hate.

[21:19] Andrew DeWolf: Well, Robert De Niro was a hater gonna hate.

[21:22] Jesse McAnally: I think there was like a Saturday where I couldn't go into town because there was so much traffic because people were going to the theater.

[21:29] Andrew DeWolf: Oh wow.

[21:29] Jesse McAnally: Because yeah.

[21:31] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, because it was only playing on like that.

[21:33] Jesse McAnally: It was a Friday.

[21:34] Andrew DeWolf: It was only playing on like that Friday and no other day.

[21:37] Jesse McAnally: Got it.

[21:39] Andrew DeWolf: So everyone was like slamming into the theater, and there's like very limited parking in Saratoga, so it's fucking nuts.

[21:47] Jesse McAnally: And it is impressive that we have so Taylor Swift is an artist, unlike any other that we've had in our lifetimes at least.

[21:56] Andrew DeWolf: I can say that without hyperbole.

[21:58] Jesse McAnally: Like, there's not been another star with this effect who has been around this long and is now hitting their peak.

[22:05] Andrew DeWolf: About what? What was her first album, 2006?

[22:08] Jesse McAnally: About 15 years into their career.

[22:10] Andrew DeWolf: Her first album was 2006.

[22:12] Jesse McAnally: Oh shit.

[22:13] Andrew DeWolf: So almost 20 years into her career?

[22:16] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, yeah, her first.

[22:17] Andrew DeWolf: Hitting their peak?

[22:19] Jesse McAnally: Yes.

[22:19] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[22:20] Jesse McAnally: That is fucking insanity and impressive nonetheless.

[22:24] Andrew DeWolf: Like, I think current, like, she was the first artist ever to take all 10 spots in the Billboard Hot 100.

[22:30] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I think.

[22:30] Andrew DeWolf: I think she's like the new Michael Jackson essentially.

[22:33] Jesse McAnally: Yes.

[22:34] Andrew DeWolf: Hopefully there won't be any court cases against Taylor, but we'll see.

[22:38] Jesse McAnally: I think that if this album came out at age 17.

[22:42] Andrew DeWolf: That's absolutely Michael beat her there.

[22:44] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, Michael did beat her that way.

[22:47] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, I did do math for that.

[22:49] Jesse McAnally: I can't do math.

[22:52] Andrew DeWolf: Well, then you've got her up against other folks like Miley Cyrus and Selena Gomez and people that were her peers that she has surpassed and done, and I think it's because she was able to change, willing to change, and changed in a way where people rip her off.

[23:09] Jesse McAnally: Like, I think that she's such an original in a weird way that she defines what the culture is going to do in both negative and positive ways, where I think a lot of her songs are pretty good, but I think an equilateral amount of her songs are dog shit because it is of the time.

[23:29] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[23:30] Jesse McAnally: And I feel that claiming that an artist can do no wrong is the worst thing you can do for art.

[23:38] Andrew DeWolf: Like me and Andrew are the first ones to critique Sondheim and whatever artists we love.

[23:43] Jesse McAnally: And I feel like the fanatical devotion to an artist is a little unhealthy for creativity and adjustments.

[23:53] Andrew DeWolf: Like, even Lady Gaga has her Artpop, the one that nobody else liked.

[23:56] Jesse McAnally: I fucking like Artpop.

[24:00] Andrew DeWolf: That's my favorite Lady Gaga album.

[24:01] Jesse McAnally: I like it.

[24:02] Andrew DeWolf: But even the one that didn't hit.

[24:03] Jesse McAnally: Do you think there's gonna be a Taylor Swift album that's gonna flop?

[24:07] Andrew DeWolf: I don't think that's humanly possible.

[24:11] Jesse McAnally: It will happen.

[24:12] Andrew DeWolf: It just it's not gonna be in the next, like, uh it's not w it won't be the next album.

[24:16] Jesse McAnally: No, the next one is gonna do incredible.

[24:18] Andrew DeWolf: Well, if it's really bad, it will flop no matter what.

[24:21] Jesse McAnally: I think any musician is able to put out something bad enough that it will flop.

[24:26] Andrew DeWolf: Like, uh, I'm trying to think of an example.

[24:32] Jesse McAnally: Katy Perry?

[24:33] Andrew DeWolf: That one album that's like a big thing.

[24:34] Jesse McAnally: Oh yeah, Katy Perry did that, right?

[24:36] Andrew DeWolf: She was pretty big.

[24:39] Jesse McAnally: And then she put out like one album and it just fucking blew up.

[24:42] Andrew DeWolf: It had the song about Taylor Swift on it, actually.

[24:45] Jesse McAnally: Oh god.

[24:47] Andrew DeWolf: So keep calm, honey.

[24:49] Jesse McAnally: I'm a stick goo down for more than a minute.

[24:53] Andrew DeWolf: Get used to it.

[24:55] Jesse McAnally: Funny.

[24:56] Andrew DeWolf: My name keeps coming at him back.

[24:59] Jesse McAnally: Cause I stayed up like so.

[25:21] Andrew DeWolf: Scary.

[25:22] Jesse McAnally: Um yeah, frightening, but fanatical.

[25:25] Andrew DeWolf: And I think we were talking about it earlier, and I think some of us weren't joking quite so much.

[25:31] Jesse McAnally: Uh we're scared to say anything too bad because like they will kill us.

[25:35] Andrew DeWolf: Genuinely fucking try to kill us.

[25:38] Jesse McAnally: The worst thing about Taylor Swift is literally her fan base.

[25:42] Andrew DeWolf: Well, that's the thing with anyone who's like really popular.

[25:46] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[25:46] Andrew DeWolf: And like fan bases, these type of fan bases are horrible.

[25:50] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[25:51] Andrew DeWolf: And I also think there's a lot of Swifties that are not bad eggs. I know a lot of them.

[25:55] Jesse McAnally: Oh no, of course.

[25:57] Andrew DeWolf: Like, I think the problem is the problem is people that are bad eggs that will dox people and harass people.

[26:03] Jesse McAnally: Say anything bad.

[26:05] Andrew DeWolf: It feels okay.

[26:07] Jesse McAnally: Oh, how am I gonna say this?

[26:09] Andrew DeWolf: You sent me that creepy ass video earlier.

[26:12] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, what video?

[26:13] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, you know the one, the one where the girl was saved by what song it was, and she couldn't be.

[26:20] Jesse McAnally: I told you I had the video last week.

[26:21] Andrew DeWolf: I know you did. That's why I sent it to Andrew.

[26:24] Jesse McAnally: What the hell was that video?

[26:26] Andrew DeWolf: That's content. That was scary.

[26:27] Jesse McAnally: Okay, so that was genuinely scary.

[26:29] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, so you know the part of the concert where she sings like her acoustic set?

[26:34] Jesse McAnally: Yes.

[26:34] Andrew DeWolf: So there's a thing. My Twitter feed during the Eras Tour was filled with this shit.

[26:38] Jesse McAnally: Basically, like she did surprise songs every concert.

[26:42] Andrew DeWolf: So the acoustic set was different every city she went to.

[26:46] Jesse McAnally: So there's a girl in Australia during night three or four of her Sydney part of her tour.

[26:54] Andrew DeWolf: And there's she's singing "Exile," which this girl says, "Exile saved my life," but she's outside the stadium, so she's crying her little eyes out because she's not there in the room with Taylor.

[27:06] Jesse McAnally: Oh.

[27:06] Andrew DeWolf: So she wanted to be in the room to hear the song that saved her life.

[27:10] Jesse McAnally: That's stupid.

[27:12] Andrew DeWolf: So I saw a comment once that Ed Sheeran's little thing saved someone's life, and I'm like, that song is about a girl being fat, but you love her anyway, so I hope that didn't save your fucking life.

[27:24] Jesse McAnally: I feel like if I was saved by some pop song, I would be ashamed to admit that in public.

[27:32] Andrew DeWolf: I like the only way a song can actually save your life is if you're driving and you're at the wheel and the next song happens to be Alanis Morissette's "Ironic," and it's just at a very high level, so it just starts and it just wakes you up and you're about to hit an oncoming truck and you swerve at the last minute, and that then a song saved your life.

[27:56] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, but what if it wakes you up and it's too late, you're gonna hit it anyways?

[27:59] Andrew DeWolf: Wouldn't that be ironic?

[28:03] Jesse McAnally: And isn't it ironic?

[28:06] Andrew DeWolf: Don't you think?

[28:08] Jesse McAnally: A little too ironic?

[28:10] Andrew DeWolf: Well, don't you think?

[28:11] Jesse McAnally: But in this girl's defense, like if she thinks she has a song that has a deep emotional connection with her and like made her feel better, I'm not gonna ick your yum.

[28:20] Andrew DeWolf: Like I respect it.

[28:23] Jesse McAnally: Do I fully understand it? No. Do I judge you? Hell no.

[28:27] Andrew DeWolf: Like, I think that reaction is a little too extreme for me to not put any judgment out.

[28:34] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[28:34] Andrew DeWolf: It was pretty kind of scary.

[28:36] Jesse McAnally: Your literal response was, I feel like this is something I shouldn't see, but then again, she's the one that posted it.

[28:43] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, she did post it.

[28:46] Andrew DeWolf: It literally feels like a private moment that like I shouldn't be watching this. Like, this is like a mother whose child just died.

[28:52] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, but she's crying because she's not in the same room as Taylor Swift singing a song.

[28:58] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, can I tell the story of like my Taylor Swift eras experience in Detroit?

[29:04] Jesse McAnally: Oh yeah.

[29:06] Andrew DeWolf: So I am making a film called Daughters of the Domino at the moment. Um, and we needed exterior concert scenes, and right when we were filming, um, was the Eras Tour, which meant a lot of our PAs and crew members were very not well both Saturday and Sunday, um, of our shoots. Um, uh, for reasons I'm sure you can figure out. Um, so I took my DP and my costumer, because we needed a female for us to not look weird, and we just shot the rodeo, basically, and we hung out with these Swifties, and my god, they were sobbing, and you could barely hear the song uh songs at all. Like, the only time you could really hear what song was playing is when someone accidentally opened the door to the little Caesar Rainer and he just got just kind of you get a little bit of it, and they're like screaming, sitting in the middle of the street outside of the arena.

[30:04] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[30:05] Andrew DeWolf: I don't understand. Why did I do this? I think I I'm I'm at a point, like I'm at a a place where I would like I would just like to understand.

[30:15] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[30:15] Andrew DeWolf: Like there's a lot of bands that I really enjoy. I don't think I've ever had that kind of reaction to anything.

[30:23] Jesse McAnally: And I have to be a little mean, but like, how do you have that type of reaction to like a mainstream pop song that you can hear in the supermarket?

[30:35] Andrew DeWolf: Like, for real. Like, if I if I'm listening to like this, like stuff that I had to seek out and like find this music that I really enjoy, and I don't have that type of reaction. How do you have that type of reaction to a song that you can hear at Target? You know?

[30:49] Jesse McAnally: Like, I I just I don't get it. I literally don't understand.

[30:55] Andrew DeWolf: I I kinda get it.

[30:57] Jesse McAnally: I don't fully get it, but like I kinda get it.

[30:59] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, like, a lot of these kids, like, a lot of these are teenagers who were stuck in the house during COVID and shit. All I had was their phone. All I had was the internet for any connectivity. And Taylor Swift was the one of the only artists to release something new during that. She released COVID albums. She consistently did stuff during COVID. People attached to her.

[31:21] Jesse McAnally: So I see it.

[31:22] Andrew DeWolf: I personally didn't attach her. Even my dad fucking listened to folklore. Like, my dad listened to it during COVID. So it it had a big reach. My dad is 60 something. Like, not even a teenage girl.

[31:34] Jesse McAnally: Like.

[31:36] Andrew DeWolf: But like, Taylor Swift just has this effect on people, and it fascinates me. Like, it doesn't affect me as much as other people, but like, I get the feeling, but I'm like, I'm not gonna cry during this song, but I like it.

[31:52] Jesse McAnally: I don't know.

[31:53] Andrew DeWolf: But it's like you attach to it's like why the Sephora kids thing is a problem nowadays.

[31:59] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, because they're doing blackface, for one.

[32:02] Andrew DeWolf: Well, that's it's that's a part of it, but it's also they were stuck inside during COVID. They have no place to go, they watch TikToks of beauty halls, so they're gonna buy lotions that they don't need because they're 11. Cause that's all they have. They all they have is their favorite influencers to tell them what to do. So we're blaming COVID on parents not raising their children.

[32:23] Jesse McAnally: Basically, COVID gave teen COVID teen parents were like, fuck this, here's here's your phone. Here's T Swizzle.

[32:31] Andrew DeWolf: I'm old enough to remember.

[32:33] Jesse McAnally: I don't think it's a Taylor Swift thing, though, because this was always a thing.

[32:37] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, you go back to the Beatles, right? Like this was a thing.

[32:39] Jesse McAnally: Yeah this has been a thing for a while.

[32:43] Andrew DeWolf: Um well, she finally toppled the Beatles uh um and her numbers, like within the last couple weeks.

[32:50] Jesse McAnally: Well, that's just because all the people that listen to the Beatles are dying.

[32:53] Andrew DeWolf: Uh dead. Half the Beatles are dead.

[32:57] Jesse McAnally: It's true.

[32:58] Andrew DeWolf: Um but like we've had a couple of these type of artists. I mean, the Beatles, Michael Jackson, and now Taylor Swift, these like mega superstars.

[33:10] Jesse McAnally: And it's uh it's an interesting phenomenon that I don't like.

[33:18] Andrew DeWolf: So it's tough for me to like comment on it other than that.

[33:21] Jesse McAnally: And you've always you've you've been consistently against this.

[33:24] Andrew DeWolf: Like in our across the universe, and even when I first met you, uh you once said to me, um, stop acting like the Beatles are real art, they're just glorified Jonas brothers.

[33:36] Jesse McAnally: And I think about that once a month.

[33:38] Andrew DeWolf: I still agree with that.

[33:39] Jesse McAnally: I still agree with that statement.

[33:43] Andrew DeWolf: Like, okay, the Beatles are the Beatles did eventually release some like weird avant-garde shit, like very late in their career. Um, but like when when they first started, if anyone is fucking telling you that like I want to hold your hand is art, like just tell them to shut the fuck up.

[34:02] Jesse McAnally: Like, come on.

[34:07] Andrew DeWolf: Like, you can like the song. I'm not saying you can't like the song, and I'm not saying you shouldn't like Taylor Swift, like that's fine. All I'm trying to understand is why do you like her this much?

[34:17] Jesse McAnally: Why is it your whole personality?

[34:21] Andrew DeWolf: I that's what I don't understand. I can totally understand turning this on and being like, oh, that's a that's a chill song. I can vibe to that, I like that. That's totally fine. Even going to the concert and being like, yeah, I enjoy this, this is fun. I get it. Totally get it. Why are you having a mental breakdown outside of the concert venue?

[34:40] Jesse McAnally: What is happening in your life that this is where you're at?

[34:43] Andrew DeWolf: Like, what is going on?

[34:46] Jesse McAnally: And let me put it like this. While I respect her as an artist, I respect the work she's done, I've enjoyed her work in the past, even before she got to this level. Um, I was one of the like I was a Taylor Swift defender long ago, and my girlfriend was like, You're fucking stupid. Um I was like, No, I think I I dig her vibe. I don't get why they're like this for this specific work of art.

[35:15] Andrew DeWolf: If that makes sense.

[35:16] Jesse McAnally: The art does not match to the obsession level.

[35:20] Andrew DeWolf: Like, this feels like, oh, if you added a little bit of twin peaks to Katy Perry, you've got t Taylor Swift.

[35:29] Jesse McAnally: That is my actual interpretation.

[35:32] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[35:33] Jesse McAnally: Okay.

[35:34] Andrew DeWolf: So we've talked about the cult of personality.

[35:38] Jesse McAnally: Yes.

[35:39] Andrew DeWolf: Um, the the in living cover colour of it all here. I kinda wanna talk about the actual Eras Tour and her personality and like what sh her vibe during it.

[35:54] Jesse McAnally: Um, because I actually think that the songs are pretty okay.

[36:00] Andrew DeWolf: Not for me, really, kind of like basic pop. Not designed for the way they were not the target audio. The songs are are fine, and the way that they stage them is good.

[36:11] Jesse McAnally: Um, they obviously dumped a shit ton of money into this, and it shows.

[36:15] Andrew DeWolf: She's not a stage that looks like a T for her name.

[36:18] Jesse McAnally: That's what you want.

[36:19] Andrew DeWolf: No, I mean that's a good they did a good job. It looks great. The backup dancers, incredible.

[36:25] Jesse McAnally: No, there's just something there's just something a little bit awkward about whenever the songs stop and she talks to the audience, it just feels weird.

[36:35] Andrew DeWolf: Like she has this like I'm being genuine, but also I'm a superstar kind of vibe.

[36:43] Jesse McAnally: Halfway through.

[36:44] Andrew DeWolf: I think I figured out the vibe that you're talking about, and I was able to put it into words.

[36:49] Jesse McAnally: Okay.

[36:50] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[36:52] Jesse McAnally: Your mom talking to their friend's kid.

[36:59] Andrew DeWolf: Well, aren't we having a good time?

[37:03] Jesse McAnally: Well, you know what I think about this?

[37:06] Andrew DeWolf: I think it's making me feel angry.

[37:10] Jesse McAnally: Like, yeah.

[37:11] Andrew DeWolf: It's so weird.

[37:13] Jesse McAnally: And it's like the crowd goes crazy for it, but I'm just like, if if I was if this was a local band doing this, people would be like walking out.

[37:22] Andrew DeWolf: Like, why are you talking to the audience like this?

[37:26] Jesse McAnally: And her dance moves, not that she's a bad dancer, but it's a very like one choose step, and that's the whole thing.

[37:33] Andrew DeWolf: You know, at least she knows her limits.

[37:35] Jesse McAnally: Yes.

[37:36] Andrew DeWolf: I respect she knows her limits.

[37:38] Jesse McAnally: Well, that's they they lean a lot heavier on like uh backup dancers and story type segments and I think are neat.

[37:45] Andrew DeWolf: I like it.

[37:45] Jesse McAnally: And like the buildings and stuff are cool.

[37:48] Andrew DeWolf: Like all that's like.

[37:51] Jesse McAnally: Um just it really was like, that's how she's gonna talk.

[37:58] Andrew DeWolf: Like, like, I I guess I'm just like I'm expecting more of like a superstar, like, either like huge ego, like larger than life ego, or more like directly personable, like I'm talking to you, like the audience.

[38:15] Jesse McAnally: Okay, here's a comparison um to the other, I would say, groundbreaking uh concert film, Stop Making Sense, uh, with the talking heads, where David Byrne is very genuine, very weird.

[38:27] Andrew DeWolf: Like him in that suit and the way he dances is very weird, but the way he speaks to an audience doesn't feel like he's putting on a show.

[38:34] Jesse McAnally: He doesn't feel like he has to entertain.

[38:36] Andrew DeWolf: Whereas Taylor Swift feels like she is entertaining.

[38:39] Jesse McAnally: She is putting on an act.

[38:41] Andrew DeWolf: In a weird way.

[38:42] Jesse McAnally: It feels like she's putting on an act, but she doesn't want it to seem like she thinks too highly of herself.

[38:51] Andrew DeWolf: So she's like, it's like I'm a superstar, but I'm toning it back.

[38:56] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[38:56] Andrew DeWolf: Um very strange.

[38:59] Jesse McAnally: And it's it's only it's it would work if she was like in a smaller venue.

[39:03] Andrew DeWolf: But these are this is an enormous, like you are playing the largest show, maybe ever.

[39:11] Jesse McAnally: And she her just and like the way that she undercut cuts it with like, you know, like I feel this kind of power is dangerous.

[39:20] Andrew DeWolf: And then she pulls out her bicep, which is like uh the size of her finger, maybe, and she's like, I'm so s like it's she has such a tiny little arm, and she's like kissing her bicep.

[39:30] Jesse McAnally: Where I know she gets the irony of it, but it just feels like very performative and very unpleasant.

[39:37] Andrew DeWolf: And it you know what it feels like a little bit?

[39:40] Jesse McAnally: It like it feels like when I'm trying to set up a transition to another topic on the podcast where it's like, you know, speaking of feeling bad, I have always felt that I've had a bad reputation.

[39:55] Andrew DeWolf: Boom!

[39:56] Jesse McAnally: And then she goes, like it's just it literally she does exactly that several times.

[40:03] Andrew DeWolf: Nah, yeah.

[40:04] Jesse McAnally: You know, sometimes life is getting you stressed out.

[40:08] Andrew DeWolf: I feel stressed out too.

[40:09] Jesse McAnally: And you know what you have to do when all the haters and freaks come out?

[40:13] Andrew DeWolf: You gotta shake it off.

[40:14] Jesse McAnally: Cut to black.

[40:17] Andrew DeWolf: Like it's a very specific way of speaking that is different.

[40:22] Jesse McAnally: Not bad, just a weird.

[40:24] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[40:25] Jesse McAnally: I'm I will say it mild.

[40:26] Andrew DeWolf: I'm gonna I'm gonna be I'm gonna be the Taylor Swift defender today.

[40:29] Jesse McAnally: No for it.

[40:30] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[40:31] Jesse McAnally: I will say, in her defense.

[40:33] Andrew DeWolf: In a stadium, this is it was surrounded by thousands of people.

[40:36] Jesse McAnally: That talk was probably fucking sick.

[40:39] Andrew DeWolf: But again, we're alone in a movie.

[40:42] Jesse McAnally: We're not in a movie theater.

[40:43] Andrew DeWolf: We're alone in a brightly lit room watching this on our computers.

[40:47] Jesse McAnally: Like, we're not in an environment.

[40:50] Andrew DeWolf: And also like Taylor Swift, I know a lot about Taylor Swift's career indirectly because I'm perpetually online.

[40:57] Jesse McAnally: Not because I want to learn these things because I've learned them via Twitter.

[41:00] Andrew DeWolf: But Taylor Swift's back when she was considered cocky was back when she was the least liked by society at large.

[41:09] Jesse McAnally: So she has to play it very close to the chest in terms of that.

[41:13] Andrew DeWolf: So she's playing up humble.

[41:16] Jesse McAnally: Also, a sexism also exists.

[41:18] Andrew DeWolf: So if she acts too powerful, then people will hate her because like she's a woman.

[41:22] Jesse McAnally: I agree.

[41:23] Andrew DeWolf: But what I have to say to that is you're a fucking superstar.

[41:26] Jesse McAnally: Yes.

[41:27] Andrew DeWolf: Who the fuck cares?

[41:28] Jesse McAnally: Yes, she shouldn't care, but she does.

[41:31] Andrew DeWolf: She's like that person that's like, I don't care what anyone thinks, but she c she has to care because that's what I don't like.

[41:31] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[41:31] Andrew DeWolf: That's what I don't like. I think that that's a bad performance by her.

[41:40] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[41:41] Andrew DeWolf: She, like, and I'm not saying the performance in the songs, I'm saying the performance where she's performing the entire time.

[41:48] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[41:48] Andrew DeWolf: The whole thing is a performance. She's acting. Those are those parts are scripted. You won't convince me otherwise.

[41:54] Jesse McAnally: I don't think anyone would ever try.

[41:55] Andrew DeWolf: No, not even the Swifties.

[41:58] Jesse McAnally: Um.

[41:59] Andrew DeWolf: So like playing up humble, like as a superstar who is doing a three hour tour where you sing nothing but your own songs to pack stadiums, and it's also filmed and put into theaters and is massively successful.

[42:14] Jesse McAnally: Um being like humble, like, oh, aren't we having a fun time?

[42:19] Andrew DeWolf: Like, this is it's just it's weird.

[42:22] Jesse McAnally: Like, entertain me.

[42:25] Andrew DeWolf: I don't want to see a humble person on stage.

[42:28] Jesse McAnally: I want to see a superstar.

[42:29] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[42:30] Jesse McAnally: Which she is when she's singing, but in between, it's like, are you good?

[42:34] Andrew DeWolf: And it it feels to me manufactured.

[42:36] Jesse McAnally: It feels like, well, you get to be a superstar when you're singing, but you have to be personable to the fans so that they think you're a real person.

[42:43] Andrew DeWolf: This it feels like something her agents told her to do in a way.

[42:47] Jesse McAnally: I feel like her agents can't control Taylor Swift.

[42:50] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, but like it feels like someone told her to do that at some point, so she seemed more marketable, and she's just stuck with that.

[42:57] Jesse McAnally: I think that she I think it's real.

[42:59] Andrew DeWolf: I think that she does want to be that way.

[43:01] Jesse McAnally: Yes.

[43:02] Andrew DeWolf: I just don't think so.

[43:03] Jesse McAnally: She should.

[43:03] Andrew DeWolf: I think that it's a bad performance, and I don't want to see it.

[43:06] Jesse McAnally: But I also don't believe she is that way. I will say I don't watch many interviews with Taylor Swift in my free time. But I have seen one, and it sticks with me quite a bit. And it's with her and Andrew Lloyd Webber on Cats.

[43:24] Andrew DeWolf: Oh my god.

[43:26] Jesse McAnally: No, I've seen this, yeah. And she's like, if you can't get T.S. Eliot, just get T.S. And I'm just like, did someone cue her for that? Like that is her pretending to be cocky, and it doesn't that works even less. You can't write a modern lyric for Cats. So, like, if you can't get T.S. Eliot, like get T.S., I'm here for you. She's not. Maybe she's just not good at that part of it. Maybe she's not a particularly good actor, and that's fine. I mean, I've seen Valentine's Day. She's not that great at acting.

[44:00] Andrew DeWolf: I think what we're discovering is Swifties just want to see Taylor Swift for her music. They don't want to see her in a movie. They don't want to see her as a cat. They want to just see her sing her songs. And you know what? I respect them for that. At least they're not getting tricked into watching garbage. Unlike us.

[44:19] Jesse McAnally: Um speaking of watching garbage, how about we compare our opinions to those of the critics on Letterboxd.com. It's time for breviews.

[44:27] Andrew DeWolf: It's time for previews.

[44:32] Jesse McAnally: Um this is the letterbox game, one star, five stars, where we have to compare our real letterboxed reviews just based on their reviews alone and guess whether they're a one-star or five-star based on that. Liz, you've cultivated a bunch of reviews for us. Let's get started. Andrew, you against me. Let's go.

[44:54] Andrew DeWolf: Alright. I will say all the negative reviews had Kanye references, so they will not be present here.

[44:59] Jesse McAnally: Well, that's a spoiler.

[45:02] Andrew DeWolf: Oh no, there's still positive negatives here. Just none of them will be Kanye jokes.

[45:07] Jesse McAnally: That's fine.

[45:08] Andrew DeWolf: Alright. Who wants to go first?

[45:10] Jesse McAnally: Um, Andrew does.

[45:12] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, Jess, you're going first.

[45:14] Jesse McAnally: Okay. Are you ready?

[45:18] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[45:19] Jesse McAnally: I squirted everywhere.

[45:21] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, that's a five.

[45:23] Jesse McAnally: That's a one.

[45:24] Andrew DeWolf: Damn. Yeah, clean that up or it's gonna leave stains.

[45:30] Andrew DeWolf: I can't believe I went to this lake. Like, actually, I don't remember it.

[45:34] Jesse McAnally: Andrew's review of Mean Girls.

[45:38] Andrew DeWolf: All of our review of Mean Girls. Um, this has gotta be a one, I mean, right?

[45:44] Jesse McAnally: That's a five.

[45:45] Andrew DeWolf: Jesus Christ. They got that drunk that they loved it. When I went to see Lady Gaga live, um, I drank a full bottle of wine. And I was upset that it was only like 90 minutes of her.

[45:55] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[45:55] Andrew DeWolf: I saw Dua Lipa live, completely sober. Um, I was walking, and I don't usually walk because we walk to Wrigley's Field or Wrigley Stadium for that. Um good times.

[46:05] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[46:05] Andrew DeWolf: I was very close to Lipa's butt.

[46:08] Jesse McAnally: I was.

[46:09] Andrew DeWolf: I saw her butt a lot.

[46:11] Jesse McAnally: Jealous.

[46:12] Andrew DeWolf: I have a lot of pictures on my phone. Alright, uh Jess.

[46:15] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[46:16] Andrew DeWolf: My favorite white woman.

[46:19] Jesse McAnally: That's a five.

[46:20] Andrew DeWolf: Correct.

[46:21] Jesse McAnally: What other white women are there to compare?

[46:23] Andrew DeWolf: Tina Fey.

[46:26] Jesse McAnally: I love Tina Fey, but she fucks up a lot.

[46:29] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[46:30] Jesse McAnally: She shits in her own face.

[46:32] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[46:33] Jesse McAnally: Placing my bets now. They will shine the camera on Taylor Swift six times on the Super Bowl.

[46:39] Andrew DeWolf: It was much more than six.

[46:41] Jesse McAnally: It was definitely more than six.

[46:42] Andrew DeWolf: I watched the last five minutes and they did it six times.

[46:45] Jesse McAnally: I watched the whole Super Bowl.

[46:46] Andrew DeWolf: It was more than six.

[46:47] Jesse McAnally: Um five stars.

[46:49] Andrew DeWolf: That is that's wrong, actually.

[46:51] Jesse McAnally: Damn.

[46:52] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, Jess.

[46:54] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[46:55] Andrew DeWolf: Surprise, surprise.

[46:56] Jesse McAnally: That's a one.

[46:57] Andrew DeWolf: That's a five.

[46:58] Jesse McAnally: Fuck!

[47:01] Andrew DeWolf: Yep.

[47:03] Jesse McAnally: All she did was sing.

[47:06] Andrew DeWolf: What did you want her to do?

[47:08] Jesse McAnally: Exactly. Get hit by a car?

[47:10] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, this person seems to agree with my critique that they didn't really do anything else. The in-between sections were very mundane.

[47:21] Jesse McAnally: Um that was your theater critic voice, your Ben Brantley voice.

[47:27] Andrew DeWolf: That's alright.

[47:31] Jesse McAnally: I'm really hoping that one of these is like a like a it looks like a one, but it's not, but I'm wrong.

[47:36] Andrew DeWolf: This doesn't do those as much as me.

[47:38] Jesse McAnally: No, no. I like to just trick you the whole time. Also, a lot of these were very obvious, so I had to skirt around those.

[47:45] Andrew DeWolf: Alright. Uh Jess.

[47:48] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[47:49] Andrew DeWolf: My kind of cult.

[47:51] Jesse McAnally: That's a five.

[47:52] Andrew DeWolf: Correct.

[47:53] Jesse McAnally: My kind of cult.

[47:57] Andrew DeWolf: Yep.

[47:59] Jesse McAnally: I'm extremely biased.

[48:03] Andrew DeWolf: Five.

[48:03] Jesse McAnally: Correct.

[48:04] Andrew DeWolf: That one's five.

[48:05] Jesse McAnally: Correct.

[48:07] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[48:08] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[48:09] Andrew DeWolf: Didn't watch it and won't watch it, but I already know what I would rate it.

[48:14] Jesse McAnally: It's a one.

[48:15] Andrew DeWolf: That's correct.

[48:16] Jesse McAnally: I thought that was tricky more.

[48:18] Andrew DeWolf: Why no, why would I?

[48:21] Jesse McAnally: I don't know.

[48:22] Andrew DeWolf: Didn't watch it was the key.

[48:23] Jesse McAnally: That's true.

[48:24] Andrew DeWolf: Alright.

[48:25] Jesse McAnally: Andrew.

[48:27] Andrew DeWolf: I watched this drunk on wine.

[48:31] Jesse McAnally: I miss one.

[48:33] Andrew DeWolf: Five.

[48:34] Jesse McAnally: One.

[48:34] Andrew DeWolf: Fuck.

[48:35] Jesse McAnally: I really the last person who got drunk that they forgot it. They loved it, so I think it's kind of.

[48:41] Andrew DeWolf: Jess.

[48:43] Jesse McAnally: I think I've seen this film before.

[48:47] Andrew DeWolf: Five?

[48:48] Jesse McAnally: Yes.

[48:48] Andrew DeWolf: Alright. Last one.

[48:49] Jesse McAnally: Andrew, don't fuck it up.

[48:52] Andrew DeWolf: Help! I'm still at the restaurant.

[48:55] Jesse McAnally: Five.

[48:56] Andrew DeWolf: Five.

[48:57] Jesse McAnally: Five.

[48:58] Andrew DeWolf: Come on.

[48:59] Jesse McAnally: Correct.

[48:59] Andrew DeWolf: Who win?

[49:00] Jesse McAnally: Andrew.

[49:01] Andrew DeWolf: Jess one.

[49:02] Jesse McAnally: Jess Swiss.

[49:03] Andrew DeWolf: I'm better than you.

[49:05] Jesse McAnally: I am the king of Taylor Swift.

[49:07] Andrew DeWolf: Is that not worth extra points or anything?

[49:09] Jesse McAnally: No.

[49:08] Andrew DeWolf: Um, ear tied.

[49:09] Jesse McAnally: I gave you extra points.

[49:12] Andrew DeWolf: Yay!

[49:12] Jesse McAnally: I I'm happy with the tie, because then we're both winners.

[49:17] Andrew DeWolf: Yay!

[49:17] Jesse McAnally: Speaking of winners, let's go into a mid show and talk about our Patreon.

[49:28] Andrew DeWolf: Hey guys, sorry to interrupting you a little show, but we've got a show to you. Today's show is brought to you by the extremely kind donations by our folks over at Patreon. Andrew, tell us a little bit about Patreon and all that jazz.

[49:40] Andrew DeWolf: Uh, you can go to Patreon if you want to support us financially, and if you just want extra content, then I swear none of it is about Taylor Swift. We have zero extra content about Taylor Swift.

[49:50] Jesse McAnally: Thank the fucking lord.

[49:51] Andrew DeWolf: Um right, our current patrons are Danielle Rennox, Justice Tampede, Ewan Cassidy, Monica Throw, Brent Black, Lathaniel Stacey Coon, Joseph Evans Green, Mary Luce Choquet, John Van Alz, Russ Walker, Musical Hell, Emily Racy, Kyle Summers, Janay C, Scoot and the Techno or Dreamcoat.

[50:06] Jesse McAnally: Nothing is certain except Beth and Taxis Thesbian, Robert Benjamin, Jessica T, Mitchell Young, Chai Teacup, Chris Marcote, Kiji Maria Nestagio, uh Trevi, Trevi Joseph, RJ Noriga, Julia McLannan, Bjorn Herman's, Toriana Frazier, Sammy, the Adequate Amount Jacobson, Kayleigh Blazier, The Cinemagedon Reviews, Villainous Miss, Sophina Ali, The Omega Geek, Paige Pearson, Matty Wargle, Eliza Erdman, Anna Loscatova, Sarah Den Blaker, Evan Ball, Zachary Torres, Rora Morasso, Mara Fourloyne, Lisa L.

[50:42] Andrew DeWolf: Sidney Hicks, Anna Bell, Billy Clifton, Gold Plated Kiki Mora, Julia Baldur's daughter, uh Hutt Muttbutt, and Emma. They give us a little extra money so we can keep the lights on here at Musicals with Cheese.

[50:59] Jesse McAnally: I say that. We also have a we also have a bonus podcast, Patreon with Cheese, or Jess and I are currently watching the Has Been Hotel series on Amazon.

[51:08] Andrew DeWolf: It kind of blows.

[51:09] Jesse McAnally: I kind of like it.

[51:11] Andrew DeWolf: Wait, listen for our detailed opinion.

[51:14] Jesse McAnally: Well, by the time this comes out, watch me like it.

[51:17] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know.

[51:17] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, you'll might like it. It's one of those shows you have to binge, I think.

[51:21] Andrew DeWolf: So we're doing it wrong.

[51:23] Jesse McAnally: I watched the first two episodes, I'm like, this kind of sucks. I'm gonna go.

[51:26] Andrew DeWolf: I watched episodes, and I'm like, I want to keep going to see if this turns out good.

[51:30] Jesse McAnally: Um, not impressed.

[51:32] Andrew DeWolf: And I like Alex Brightman, so that's a bummer.

[51:35] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. Remember we talked to him?

[51:37] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[51:38] Jesse McAnally: Remember when we saw him in Beetlejuice, Andrew?

[51:41] Andrew DeWolf: I wasn't there.

[51:43] Jesse McAnally: Alright, back to the show.

[51:52] Andrew DeWolf: So, how about we just talk about every era instead of every song, and then we just kind of hit the songs we want to talk about. We start with the Lover era.

[51:59] Jesse McAnally: Um, I did not know a single one of these songs.

[52:04] Andrew DeWolf: Every one of the old.

[52:07] Jesse McAnally: Sing it for me.

[52:08] Andrew DeWolf: What's it go like?

[52:09] Jesse McAnally: It's yeah, baby. It's a cruel summer.

[52:11] Andrew DeWolf: I can't sing.

[52:13] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I had no idea what any of these songs were, but I was like, I'm going with the vibe.

[52:17] Andrew DeWolf: You haven't worked retail recently. That's why you don't know what cruel summer is.

[52:20] Jesse McAnally: I've not worked retail in almost 10 years, and thank God for it.

[52:24] Andrew DeWolf: And it's who is summer it's cool.

[52:37] Jesse McAnally: That's what I tell no.

[52:39] Andrew DeWolf: We don't have a Oh, these aren't in order.

[52:49] Jesse McAnally: I thought they were gonna be in order.

[52:51] Andrew DeWolf: These are in the order that they have to be.

[52:55] Jesse McAnally: I know. I thought that she was gonna perform them in order.

[52:57] Andrew DeWolf: I guess I didn't realize it's a good one.

[52:58] Jesse McAnally: No, it's different years.

[52:59] Andrew DeWolf: It's funky.

[53:00] Jesse McAnally: It goes all over the place.

[53:01] Andrew DeWolf: I had to look it up.

[53:03] Jesse McAnally: Damn. It's pretty neat. Um, but she starts with like the more recent stuff to get the audience going.

[53:10] Andrew DeWolf: Like this is she released this album the same year as Cats.

[53:14] Jesse McAnally: You know, her other big opus.

[53:17] Andrew DeWolf: That's true, that's true.

[53:19] Jesse McAnally: Sure. It was certainly an intro, and it's not the worst part, but it isn't the best part, which I think makes a good intro.

[53:26] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[53:28] Jesse McAnally: I think the thing with this one is that I didn't recognize any song until You Belong with Me, which is actually in the next era, so well.

[53:36] Andrew DeWolf: Let's talk about the Fearless Era, which I believe is like the oldest song she sings, which has there's one from 2006.

[53:43] Jesse McAnally: Oh we that was a surprise song.

[53:46] Andrew DeWolf: That doesn't count.

[53:47] Jesse McAnally: Okay, fine.

[53:49] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, this is the oldest era.

[53:51] Jesse McAnally: Yes. The Fearless Era, she sings Fearless, You Belong with Me, and Love Story.

[53:55] Andrew DeWolf: And Love Story might be the first Taylor Swift song I ever heard and became a meme, and it's still a meme, and I was still just hanging sing to myself, she wears short.

[54:05] Jesse McAnally: No, that's not it, is it?

[54:06] Andrew DeWolf: No, You Belong with Me is that one.

[54:08] Jesse McAnally: But she wears short skirts, I wear t-shirts, she's cheer captain on the bleachers, screaming about the day.

[54:24] Andrew DeWolf: Um understands you been here.

[54:38] Jesse McAnally: Yes, You Belong with Me. You wear short skirts, I wear a t-shirt. She's cheer captain and I'm on the bleachers.

[54:44] Andrew DeWolf: I do agree that these two songs are very easy to blend together. Very iconic, though.

[54:50] Jesse McAnally: Um, and okay, You Belong with Me is the meme song that I think is funny and goofy to sing.

[54:56] Andrew DeWolf: That's the one where it's like uh Romeo and Juliet, right?

[54:59] Jesse McAnally: No, that's Love Story.

[55:00] Andrew DeWolf: That's the one after this.

[55:02] Jesse McAnally: And yeah, that's I thought that's what it was talking about.

[55:03] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, we're talking about You Belong with Me, which is the we wear short skirts.

[55:07] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[55:07] Andrew DeWolf: That one we I say is the meme song. Love Story is the song where if I was in the audience, I'd be looking around.

[55:16] Jesse McAnally: Cause there's the point where she sings, Marry me, Juliet, and apparently it's become a thing for the boyfriends that take their girlfriends to see this to propose right when they say marry me, Juliet.

[55:30] Andrew DeWolf: And marry me, Juliet, you never have to be alone.

[55:34] Jesse McAnally: I love you, and that's all I really know. I talk to your dad, go pick out a white dress.

[56:02] Andrew DeWolf: Good board.

[56:03] Jesse McAnally: It's pretty early in the concert.

[56:05] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[56:05] Jesse McAnally: What if she says no? The entire concert to be engaged then. Like what the hell?

[56:09] Andrew DeWolf: Imagine if she said no.

[56:13] Jesse McAnally: And you have two hours and 40 minutes left of this show to go.

[56:19] Andrew DeWolf: There's a clip circulating this playing at the Super Bowl party celebration.

[56:23] Jesse McAnally: Travis, where are you? What are you doing, buddy?

[56:26] Andrew DeWolf: Um he won the Super Bowl.

[56:28] Jesse McAnally: It was because it was his night.

[56:29] Andrew DeWolf: He wasn't gonna make it about her.

[56:31] Jesse McAnally: Wasn't he trying to propose to his coach or something? I thought I saw that.

[56:37] Andrew DeWolf: She wears your shirt!

[56:38] Jesse McAnally: I wear t-shirts.

[56:40] Andrew DeWolf: The funny thing is I saw an article from her campus the next day that's like, I used to like Travis Kelsey, but now he gives me the ick.

[56:47] Jesse McAnally: And I read it.

[56:48] Andrew DeWolf: He's like, I'm a Swift and I like Travis Kelsey. But it watching him yell at Andy Reed made me not like him.

[56:54] Jesse McAnally: And me as a football fan, I'm like, who cares? The man is violent for a living. Football is a violent ass sport.

[57:03] Andrew DeWolf: Also it's right after a massive fucking fumble that nearly made them lose the game.

[57:08] Jesse McAnally: So like I brought up my conspiracy theory in previous episodes that Taylor Swift might not be a real human being, but a marketing ploy, uh being sold to the highest bidder of who needs the most brand recognition.

[57:23] Andrew DeWolf: And Travis Kelsey won this year's betting pool.

[57:26] Jesse McAnally: I don't believe that at all.

[57:28] Andrew DeWolf: I know.

[57:29] Jesse McAnally: I know. That's just a joke. But so I don't believe that it's real, but I do believe that it's real. I will say what I will say this is a person who is also like Taylor Swift is an Eagles fan prior to being a Chiefs fan by proxy. So, like Eagles fans are kind of assholes sometimes, but they're very passionate. And she watches football like an Eagles fan. And I see it, and I'm like, oh. So like she's screaming in the booth. What the fuck? Like, she's mouth. We it's a mouth for us, but she's screaming at the ref from the fucking VIP booth. Like that is how an Eagles fan watches football.

[58:07] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, so let's talk about the song that she wrote for the Willow TV show that the Aaron did before.

[58:13] Jesse McAnally: What a transition. This is the evermore era. The more that you say the less I know. Whatever you stray a follow. I'm begging for you to take my hand. Right, my plants. That's my man. 2020. Once again, don't know any of these songs. I didn't know any of them prior to this. I like the uh costume they did. Yeah, the costumes they did for Willow. That was fun. I like I like the I like the songs. I just like had to read the titles as they were playing.

[58:45] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, yeah. Um, I don't know Taylor Swift's songs. That's just me. I didn't mind this era. Probably like I I at the end of this, we're gonna have Andrew do a tier list of the eras. I've decided that I can't possibly rate them because they all sound the same.

[58:59] Jesse McAnally: You know what, Andrew? I will do the tier list.

[59:01] Andrew DeWolf: No, I'll do the tier list. I can identify them.

[59:05] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, fair enough. I genuinely cannot tell the difference between them.

[59:09] Andrew DeWolf: Okay. Reputation, I knew that right away, because it's the one that had look what you made me do.

[59:15] Jesse McAnally: But I got smarter, I got hotter in the nick of time. Honey, I rose upon the dead. I do it all the time. I've got a list of names and yours is in red underlined. I check it once, then I check it twice. Oh, look what you made me do. Look what you made me do. Look what you just made me do. Look what you just made me do. Oh, look at what you made me do. Look what you made me do. Look what you just made me do. Look what you just made me do.

[59:46] Andrew DeWolf: As Liz and I were talking about, a terrible song. I recognize this one, I think, because it was playing on the radio when I was working in a bank.

[59:53] Jesse McAnally: Oh, nice.

[59:54] Andrew DeWolf: So I had to hear it. Um, this song sucks. The music video's pretty cool. I like the music video for it. I don't like this song, but I get if you like it. I get how wrong you can be. Um, strangely enchanted for the speak now era. One song.

[1:00:16] Jesse McAnally: I respect their wrong opinions.

[1:00:17] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, don't you dare. Um listen to this. I guess the speak now era was relatively short. Speaking now with a single song. Enchanted.

[1:00:31] Jesse McAnally: Don't you let us go.

[1:00:45] Andrew DeWolf: I was enchanted so we're which is honestly one of my favorite Taylor Swift songs.

[1:00:57] Jesse McAnally: I'm not even joking.

[1:00:58] Andrew DeWolf: What makes it so good?

[1:00:59] Jesse McAnally: I just really like it's from the early era where like I grew up, it was like from my nostalgic era.

[1:01:05] Andrew DeWolf: There is no early era, actually.

[1:01:06] Jesse McAnally: It's from the speak now era.

[1:01:10] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, that was good. That was good. I'll give you that uh 10 out of 10. Um no, this is from like when I was in like high school, middle school-ish, and like I was still kind of listening to Taylor Swift regularly, and it's this is honestly this song is on my playlist I listen to because I'm in a long-distance relationship, so I have a very long playlist of romantic, like sloppy songs I listen to when I get sad at night sometimes.

[1:01:33] Jesse McAnally: That's fair.

[1:01:36] Andrew DeWolf: That's fair. And I I feel that she write it for that Disney movie, Enchanted.

[1:01:40] Jesse McAnally: No, no, no, no. That was a different guy who wrote a song for that. It's way worse. I think John McLaughlin wrote the credit song. Um, it's not good.

[1:01:50] Andrew DeWolf: Well, let's talk about the Red Era, which has two of her most iconic songs, We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together, which is another meme song.

[1:01:58] Jesse McAnally: She has a good mix of like actual songs and meme songs. I dig this song. I dig it. I think this is the era I like the least.

[1:02:06] Andrew DeWolf: Because I actually I don't like that song.

[1:02:09] Jesse McAnally: Telling you we're never ever getting back together.

[1:02:16] Andrew DeWolf: I never ever getting back together. You will talk to your friends. Talk to my friends, talk to me.

[1:02:27] Jesse McAnally: I never ever, ever, ever getting back together.

[1:02:33] Andrew DeWolf: I actually no no. The era I like the least is 1989 because I fucking hate Shake It Off.

[1:02:38] Jesse McAnally: Well, we're gonna talk about that.

[1:02:39] Andrew DeWolf: We'll get there later. 1989 has my favorite Taylor Swift song of all time and the worst Taylor Swift song of all time, and they're right next to each other.

[1:02:48] Jesse McAnally: Literally.

[1:02:49] Andrew DeWolf: Um, so it is like a weird, a weird vibe for me. Um, but the red era has We Are Never Getting Back Together, which is a goofy, fine, like kind of naggie, like, we are never ever like she knows what she's doing there.

[1:03:02] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[1:03:03] Andrew DeWolf: Like no, this was written, like, she was self aware of what's going on. The music video is like comical.

[1:03:07] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, but then you have all too well, which she did as a just a normal song, and now it's a 10-minute version, and this is all about her breakup with Jake Gyllenhaal.

[1:03:16] Jesse McAnally: Jalen Hall, yes.

[1:03:42] Andrew DeWolf: Um, and he was kind of a dick on our 21st birthday. Um I can we never get anyone else's side of these stories. I uh dear John doesn't have another side of it. Well, I love this one and its relevance because did you see the Rebecca Ferguson news today?

[1:04:01] Jesse McAnally: Oh, about how someone yelled at her on a someone who is first on the call sheet, so people started bringing out their fucking data to discover who it would be, and like who talked publicly. It wasn't the rock.

[1:04:14] Andrew DeWolf: Um Jake Gyllenhaal.

[1:04:18] Jesse McAnally: Jake. Wait, so what did he do?

[1:04:20] Andrew DeWolf: Screamed at her and a few other people on the set and was very violent, and she refuses to work with him again.

[1:04:26] Jesse McAnally: What movies were they in together?

[1:04:27] Andrew DeWolf: I don't remember, but apparently everyone else did the thing, and she has wonderful like connections with The Rock, wonderful connections with Tom Cruise, strangely. And they went down the list of all the people, and then they're like, Jake Gyllenhaal is the one. I'd be surprised if it was Timmy, so like Yeah, Timothy Chalamet.

[1:04:44] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I call him Timmy. Um, the boy.

[1:04:49] Andrew DeWolf: The little boy. Um, yeah, so all too well. That song is cinematic, it's great, and leads into uh the folklore era, which is another like that is a little musical in and of itself, that entire section.

[1:05:02] Jesse McAnally: This is the best one because they had like she had like a little story with this one, and the the the set was the best on this one.

[1:05:07] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I love that little cabin.

[1:05:08] Jesse McAnally: It's so cute. So she kind of ruins it by fucking saying, like, oh, the cabin has landed in LA, and it's like, oh my god, just shut the fuck up and sing. You know what? Jimmy Buffett never did that shit in between your song.

[1:05:23] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, guys, we're gonna sing another song. Alright, guys, I'm gonna sing another song. Margarita Vell has landed in in Orlando.

[1:05:31] Jesse McAnally: You know what? That's kind of charming from Jimmy Buffett. Rest in peace, Jimmy Buffett, but I would dig that. I the only concert I've ever been to are Jimmy Buffett and Lady Gaga.

[1:05:41] Andrew DeWolf: I've been to Dua Lipa and Lizo. Also, I like I like folk music a lot, so I like folklore uh a lot. So I might actually listen to this album later, genuinely. I'm not even saying that.

[1:05:54] Jesse McAnally: No shame towards you for that.

[1:05:55] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. I like that it has a story, though I I will say the lyrics kind of put me off a little bit because I was expecting it to be like a folky story, but instead there was like lyrics about how the guy has a skateboard or something, and like it's like too modern.

[1:06:10] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. It's like it's like uh I don't think that that worked. I mean, you're in like a cabin. Like this should be like a folk like a folk thing. Like, I don't know, it should be like vaguely timeless, you know, not about something that explicitly happens in the 90s because no one has used a skateboard since That's okay though.

[1:06:33] Andrew DeWolf: That's a nitpick, the rest of it's good. Because it works in the last great American dynasty because it is about an older person in like an older time, and then Taylor Stuff gets the cabin at the end.

[1:06:43] Jesse McAnally: Yes. Like my favorite song from this era is Betty. I really like that song.

[1:06:47] Andrew DeWolf: I love Betty. I honestly I like a lot of them. Betty, I won't make assumptions about why you switched to homeroom, but I think it's because of me.

[1:07:01] Jesse McAnally: Betty one time I was riding on my skateboard when I passed your house. It's like I couldn't breathe.

[1:07:11] Andrew DeWolf: You heard the rumors from Inez. You can't believe a word she says most times, but this time it was true. First thing that I did was what I did to you.

[1:07:32] Jesse McAnally: But if I just sort of bet you party, would you have me? Would you want me? Would you tell me to go fuck myself? Or lead me to the garden in the garden. Would you trust me if I taught you it was just a summer thing? I'm only seventeen. I don't know anything, but I know I miss you.

[1:07:57] Andrew DeWolf: Um let's move on to 1989, where it has both my favorite, my least favorite, and my most middleist Taylor Swift's most middle.

[1:08:07] Jesse McAnally: Bad blood. Like Bad Blood is like a song where it's like, yeah, it's annoying, yeah, it's kinda cool. It's the most like if I if I had to do a ranking, I would definitely be right in the middle.

[1:08:17] Andrew DeWolf: Um, so blank space for the longest time. That song has fucked. I have loved it. It is self aware, it is fun, it is dark, and it it is qu it's catchy and it's edgy, and it's all the things I like about Taylor Swift in this specific time when she's being a little little darker.

[1:08:35] Jesse McAnally: It it is uh like reputation. This is what I wanted the vibe of reputation to be, and it was not. Um anytime this song comes on, it was on my iPod in college. I still I still listen to it quite often. I really enjoy this song.

[1:08:52] Andrew DeWolf: So it's gonna be forever, or it's gonna go down in plain. You can tell me when it's over. If the high was worth the pain, got a long list of X-lovers, they'll tell you I'm insane. Cause you know I love the players, and do love the cat. We'll take this way too far. It'll leave you breadless, or with the nasty scar. Got a long list of X-Lovers, they'll tell you I'm insane. But I've got a blank space, baby. And I'll write your name.

[1:09:34] Jesse McAnally: My favorite part of her singing this live is during the long X-Lovers line. She emphasizes it more because of the Starbucks lovers thing that occurred in 2014 that she cannot live down.

[1:09:44] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. So anyway. Um, that's hilarious. Um also honorable mentions to style, which I dig the guitar line on style, it's so fucking good.

[1:09:55] Jesse McAnally: Yes, but then you have Shake It Off, Andrew's favorite song of all time. Play this more, play, baby, play, play, trade.

[1:10:03] Andrew DeWolf: And my hand's gonna hate hey, hey, hey, hey, baby. I'm just gonna shake, shake, shake, shake, shakey. Shake it off. I shake it off.

[1:10:13] Jesse McAnally: Shake it off is in like a special category of uh pop songs for me that are just I hate them.

[1:10:21] Andrew DeWolf: Um but it is not the worst one uh and it never will be because uh single ladies exists and I hate that song so much.

[1:10:28] Jesse McAnally: Oh my god, we're gonna get playing even more.

[1:10:30] Andrew DeWolf: Beyonce, you're attacking Beyonce.

[1:10:34] Jesse McAnally: I'm sorry. That Single Ladies is the worst song I've ever heard in my fucking life. I cannot stand it. Go to the club and broke up. It's so annoying.

[1:10:45] Andrew DeWolf: It is like it is like snails on a chalkboard. Uh and shake it off is kind of in the same category where it's just kind of like it's just this repetitive, like, like the single lady is like Shake It Off is in the same category.

[1:11:02] Jesse McAnally: My favorite part of Shake It Off always will be, is when she's like, I mean, you get down with a dirty rotten hater, it's when you could be getting down to this sick beat.

[1:11:11] Andrew DeWolf: And then the beat she does is just a rap, my best friend and a little girlfriend.

[1:11:16] Jesse McAnally: No, no, no, you got it wrong. My X-Man brought his new girlfriend and said, Oh my god, I'm just gonna shake to the fella over there with the hell of a good hidden hair.

[1:11:29] Andrew DeWolf: Shake shake, and then roll back. That is a travesty that this song got popular. That beat is not even remotely like good.

[1:11:37] Jesse McAnally: And then it then the chorus is like if you like shake it off, I don't, but I respect you if you do.

[1:11:47] ⚠ About 4 minutes of audio could not be automatically transcribed.

[1:15:41] Jesse McAnally: It's neat, and I think that's a benefit toward the song that it feels kind of lazy. And that's all I have to say about Taylor Swift the Eras tour. Um, how about we rank um our favorite eras, Liz? We got the rankings down here. We got A B C D. Um, there's an A tier. No, no, A B C D. I was gonna say, can't do an S tier. A B C D. Let's go. Okay. Um God. Okay, fuck. I'll do these in chronological order. You just go and read, I'll put them in. Fearless, A tier. Yep. Um, Evermore. A tier. Yep. Folklore, A tier. 1989 is also A tier. Alright. Midnight's B tier. Speak Now B tier. Uh, Reputation C tier. Yeah. It's mid. There's I kind of like Delicate, admittedly. I think it's a solid song. Um, uh what?

Fuck what am I missing? Red Lover. Red and Lover. Oh, those are the hard ones. Uh, Lover. But let's put also that in A tier. Because cruel I used to hate Cruel Summer, and now it's kind of growing on me. Um, and Red put it in D. No, I'm putting it in B. Okay. Wow, you really hate Reputation. I just I I don't hate Reputation. It's not in D tier. If it was a if I hated it it'd be in D tier. But like, I think Delicate's solid enough that I'm gonna for erase it up a bit. I think it's a fine song. Fair enough. Fair enough.

[1:17:16] Andrew DeWolf: Alright, Andrew Liz, what is our overall thoughts on Taylor Swift the Eras Tour and our cheese ratings. Andrew, you start. Personally, I don't understand it. Namely, I don't understand the fan base and like why they're so crazy about this uh woman. Um but I guess if you want to be like that, you do you. Although I would uh I would recommend looking into uh having a healthy relationship with people who don't know who the fuck you are. You know? Uh don't don't this goes for everybody. Includes us too thing. I mean that's solid, it's just solid advice. Don't have a parasocial relationship. It's too much. Parasocial relationships are kind of fucked up. Um, and I feel like there's definitely some of that going on with the Taylor Swift fan base.

Just just every fan base. Remind yourself, Taylor Swift won't fuck you. Taylor Swift would not give you one dollar if she walked past you and you begged her and you were homeless. She wouldn't even high-five you. She would not even high-five you. Um just remember that, you know? Like, you can like the music and everything, but just don't go crazy. Um make friends in real life. Yes. Um. And as far as a cheese, I'm gonna give it a craft single. Um, because that is kind of what this type of music reminds me of. Like, I eat them. I eat them, and they're good on grilled cheese, but you know, you can get 'em at Walmart. Uh oh God.

[1:18:52] Jesse McAnally: Um, I I didn't really get I I'm with Andrew. I don't fully grasp it.

[1:18:57] Andrew DeWolf: I don't really grasp the fan around Taylor Swift a lot. But she's not a perfect human being to be a role model, but like she's a billionaire. She's a billionaire. First she's a billionaire. She doesn't always make the perfect decisions, but she that she's a human, that's why. But having a whole tire of fandom or uh Taylor Swift, like admiring her work and her work ethic. I don't see a huge issue. I don't see a huge issue with the premise of that, because she is a she rose up in a field that probably wouldn't she rose up in a field in an impressive way in a like a pretty quick amount of time to be this powerful. Like, damn, good on you. Good on you, girl. Sure, you're a billionaire and you know, billionaires, but still. I think having people have Taylor Swift as a role model isn't the worst thing imaginable. Yeah, the worst the worst thing would be like Ben Shapiro or something.

[1:19:52] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, like that, like a Ben Shapiro or any Elon or like any of the people who make AlphaBrill podcasts about how women are sluts for having Instagram accounts.

[1:20:00] Andrew DeWolf: Like Oh, like us.

[1:20:02] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[1:20:03] Andrew DeWolf: That's why I'm here.

[1:20:05] Jesse McAnally: Yes.

[1:20:05] Andrew DeWolf: And we hate Instagram and sluts.

[1:20:08] Jesse McAnally: That's why I'm here.

[1:20:10] Andrew DeWolf: They go off on sexist rants.

[1:20:12] Jesse McAnally: Clearly.

[1:20:12] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, oh yeah. We totally do.

[1:20:14] Jesse McAnally: And all the time.

[1:20:15] Andrew DeWolf: Wait, we we made a mistake teaching them how to read.

[1:20:21] Jesse McAnally: How do you read this?

[1:20:22] Andrew DeWolf: There's no pictures.

[1:20:24] Jesse McAnally: I literally have a buckshot behind me, you fuckheads. Anyway Back to Taylor Swift and non-sexism.

[1:20:32] Andrew DeWolf: Okay.

[1:20:32] Jesse McAnally: Before we move on.

[1:20:34] Andrew DeWolf: Come on, man. You always interrupt my cheese rate.

[1:20:37] Jesse McAnally: I know, I know, but this is related to you.

[1:20:39] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, fine. My dad listened to the podcast, and he's like, I really like how comfortable Liz is getting.

[1:20:46] Jesse McAnally: She literally told you guys to fuck off today.

[1:20:48] Andrew DeWolf: And I just felt so proud.

[1:20:49] Jesse McAnally: What episode was that?

[1:20:51] Andrew DeWolf: That was anything ghost.

[1:20:52] Jesse McAnally: Oh god, I did tell you to fuck up.

[1:20:54] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, that was a good episode.

[1:20:56] Jesse McAnally: I think that's a good one.

[1:20:56] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, that was a good episode, yeah.

[1:20:58] Jesse McAnally: That was fun. I really I I found every uh every load-bearing joke I could find from sitcoms.

[1:21:05] Andrew DeWolf: Which was only two, sadly. Now I'm sad.

[1:21:09] Jesse McAnally: Anyway. These are load bearing walls, Jerry. You can't tear these down.

[1:21:17] Andrew DeWolf: Cheese regulars. I'm sorry. What was I saying? Oh yeah, Taylor Swift. Having Taylor Shift as a role model, it's honestly not the worst thing in the world. Young women in this world need like a good role model, especially teenage girls. Like, let I'm I'm just gonna let them have it. Enjoy it. No, I'm not gonna take it from them. I'm not gonna take shit from them because I was also once a teenage girl. I get it. I attached to things. I attached to sturdy rock at age 13. Like, you attach to things you enjoy. Like, I get it. And all I didn't get it fully prior to watching this. I kind of get it now. She when she sings, she's charismatic. Her songs are solid, she has good performance energy, the production value in this.

My own I have a gripe with the editing of this. I think some of the cuts are a bit excessive. You can tell six people edited this. Like, there's a lot of microcuts in random songs that kind of feel distracting to me, but I'm also an editor and I see these things.

[1:22:10] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I mean, they wanted to feel like a TikTok, I think was the vibe.

[1:22:14] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I think that was the vibe, but I think they should have hold on more long shots, especially for some even some of the dancier ones should have held on more long shots. Um, but yeah, I enjoyed this uh more than I thought. When I watch it again, I don't know, but I will probably listen to the music later, potentially when I'm driving to work at very early in the morning, um, to stay awake. So I don't know. Uh I'm gonna give this midnight cheese, which is like night cheese from 30 Rock. We can only eat it at midnight. It's like Gremlin's rules. I like that cheese.

[1:22:47] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[1:22:48] Andrew DeWolf: Um that note, um, I like this. I will never ever watch this back together again. It's too long. I won't watch the segments, I will watch the folklore segment um often. I know it's coming to Disney Plus eventually, and I might like turn it on while I'm doing other work. It's it's a nice kind of thing to have on while you're working. Um and giggle at her like engaging with the audience because it's like yeah, yeah. Um she's always gonna be tea swizzle, I swear.

[1:23:20] Jesse McAnally: Like she's always gonna be tea swizzle.

[1:23:23] Andrew DeWolf: Uh that was with tea pain, right?

[1:23:24] Jesse McAnally: Yes, that was with tea pain.

[1:23:26] Andrew DeWolf: That was a that's a deep cut from when I was a teenager. I just remember her being like bacon cookies, yo.

[1:23:31] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, yeah. I do remember.

[1:23:33] Andrew DeWolf: Now I'm just gonna have to look up the click. It's really easy to find. But I'm still a bug, I'm so gangsty. You can buy me bacon cookies at night. You outclub it, but I just made Carol delight. Cheese with the T pay rapping on the same track. It's a thug story tell me. Can you handle that? Tears on my guitar.

[1:23:53] Jesse McAnally: All right. Thank you guys for listening. Please follow us on iTunes and Spotify Musicals with cheese. We're on Twitter at Cheesy Musicals, Patreon Musical Suites, Instagram Musicals Cheese, you to page musical cheese. Patron only podcast, Patreon with cheese. We're covering has been hotel. Check that out. Um, email us at musical theater lives at gmail.com. Our keeper of the cheese is Juliet Antonio. Here's some SMR for you, Juliet. Here we are forever back together. Um, this show is edited by Andrew the Wolf De Wolf, and he's doing a fantabulous job, and he's got his work cut up for him this week. Um we're cutting a lot from this one.

[1:24:27] Andrew DeWolf: Thank you. It's gonna be under an hour.

[1:24:29] Jesse McAnally: Thank you. I don't I think this is worth being a little longer. This could go long, I think. Um, thank you to the Broadway Podcast Network for having us on the platform and for not kicking us off for pissing off the Swifties and burning the website to the ground. Um doxing every member of BPN. I I can hear it now. Anything uh else we have left to say.

[1:24:53] Andrew DeWolf: Swifties. Please be kind. If you got the word that means, let's be real. Come on. Um you want to get mad at anybody, get mad at me. I can take it. Macavities no. We'll see you next time on musicals with cheese.

[1:25:17] ♪ Musical number: "Blank Space" — performed by Taylor Swift ♪