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[0:06] ♪ Musical number ♪

[0:54] Jess: Hello and welcome to Musicals with Cheese. And today we've got an extra special bonus episode with one of my favorite people in the entire goddamn world. It's Grace Aki!

[1:02] Grace Aki: It's me!

[1:04] Jess: What a what a what an inspiring intro. That is so kind. It is accurate, is the other thing. Like that's the most important thing. You are one of the coolest people in the goddamn world, and we're talking about one of the coolest musicals in the goddamn world.

[1:18] Grace Aki: Yeah, we are.

[1:19] Jess: Um so the new Assassins production, um, which opened in 2022, one of the first new shows, new revivals that weren't quite on Broadway. Um, with a lot of interesting people. We have Steven Pasquale, forgive me if I pronounce his name.

[1:35] Grace Aki: Pascual, all not Ale.

[1:40] Jess: Pippasou's husband.

[1:42] Grace Aki: Yes, Philippa Sue's husband, that is correct. Um, we have Ethan Slater, aka SpongeBob.

[1:48] Jess: Will Swenson, aka Audra McDonald's husband.

[1:52] Grace Aki: Lot of famous hobbies and yeah, a lot of famous husbands. Um Adam Chandler Brett.

[1:57] Jess: Yeah, I don't think he's anyone.

[1:59] Grace Aki: I don't think he's anyone's husband yet.

[2:01] Jess: Not yet. I gotta I gotta find him.

[2:06] Grace Aki: I've heard that before.

[2:08] Jess: Perfect for you.

[2:09] Grace Aki: He could be dot dot dot perfect for you. Um yeah, we uh speaking we'll we'll go into this, but I am so glad that a new recording of Assassins exists. This is our third recording. And in the middle one, I love that recording for so long, but there was a fella in there that did did some wrongdoings and I don't like listening to his voice.

[2:34] Grace Aki: So do you not know about this?

[2:36] Jess: Wait, no, no, and and uh uh give it give it to me.

[2:40] Grace Aki: Do you know James Barber um was arrested for two years for having sex with an underage girl?

[2:47] Jess: Uh you know I don't like that.

[2:49] Grace Aki: Yeah, yeah. Uh so that album was very difficult to listen to, so I am very happy that that we have this one.

[2:55] Jess: You never have to listen to it again.

[2:57] Grace Aki: Never have to listen to it again. And I love this production. I love the orchestrations, I love everything. What is your experience with Assassins, Grace?

[3:04] Grace Aki: So I actually always uh avoided this. I'll I'll be frank with you. I I always avoided this one as part of the Sondheim canon when I was young because I was very scared that it was going to be scary. And I know that sounds so stupid, but like I've just never been I've never been a fan of gun violence. Um I don't know if anybody's a fan of it, but um like of gun violence itself, I don't think anyone has, but um I certainly have avoided it in a lot of like films and and musicals especially. So the idea that every every piece of like poster art or or c any anything that I ever saw was always like a gun was was was in the thing. And so I always just was like, oh, that's just one that I'm not gonna take in like I I'm just gonna be a Sondheim fan and not listen to one of his most prolific um pieces of art that he's ever created I'm just gonna avoid that and then I got a little older and then I realized that it might people people just kept referencing it you know in life and and people always you know seeing the solos and uh unworthy of your love was always such a popular like duet song for musical theater people and I was just like well okay well maybe I know well maybe I should take it in right um and it wasn't until I saw this classic stage production um with Matt Timothy for for my coworker with Broadway Radio and also friend um and and we went and I was on the front row uh with him for that experience and I had never seen it live I had listened to it I had seen clips um and I was so incredibly moved by the production um and again I had tickets because I you know I love Ethan and he's such a lovely person and friend and I was excited to see him in it um two years ago right before the shutdown I had tickets um and that was that was a whole last name ago for me so I like I you know and and also like those tickets went um IDK um into the ether I tried calling them they're like oh is it under a different name and I was like I'm I can't fight this like someone did someone really like take you know both the apartment and the tickets who knows but it was just it was amazing for me to finally see this show that I had been waiting to see for two plus years um knowing that Ethan was so integral to the show I didn't realize how much he was the show yes until seeing it and I was crying and it was funny I was on the very front row like you know uh uh just absolutely moved to tears by the very end and he stood there and bowed directly in front of me Ethan did and did not see me and I like you know we're all en masse like we're all taking care of ourselves and I was cracking up because afterwards I was like tweeting about it because this is still and and and still in current times I'm not like going to stage doors because I am very concerned for the safety and and and health of my fellow uh friends actors what have you so it's just not something that I'm trying to promote right now and so I was like oh I'll tell him later and then I tweeted about it and he was like what you were there and I'm like you didn't see my direct eye line like that is too like you were so in character.

[6:06] Grace Aki: Um but yeah no I was just really moved by it and so the idea that later on I would get to not only like work on the album but you know I I just I see such a a future for this show I I care about it deeply and um but but honestly now it it's just it's only been within this year that I was like I I think and and because of where I also come from which I I think that you'll probably like speak on as well like I come from a very small town in North Georgia. Marjorie Taylor Green represents my town unfortunately um Donald Trump's second wife is from my uh town we there there is gotta be at least one good person.

[6:45] Jess: Oh yeah you oh it's me it's me and Deborah Norville um um host of Inside Edition. But she uh yeah so I I don't know there there might be more um J.R. Martinez who was on Dancing with the Stars but also as a veteran um you should absolutely look into his work it's he's incredible. Um, but anyways, uh there there is something in this show that is also in Frank Rich's um liner notes that is available with the album as well. Which that's not me like really plugging it it. It's more so that like I encourage people to get the album so that that you can read this particular piece.

[7:11] Grace Aki: Physical media.

[7:19] Jess: Yeah. Um, because he's he fantastic he he just perfectly encapsulates the fact that like people have been talking about this like rumbling of of people that are tired and angry for many, many years uh, you know, in our country. And and these are the people that you go, oh, where did this come from? How could uh like someone randomly assassinate someone or how could someone storm the Capitol and all that stuff? And I'm like, I I've been seeing these people struggling for years. I've watched them like in my hometown and and they've felt unheard. And I'm not saying that they're right because they're obviously like very wrong in many respects, but I've I I feel like nobody's been listening to them, and that's literally how Trump got elected. So that's what a lot of this piece is about.

[8:01] Grace Aki: And um I appreciate that we are now in a place, I believe, where people are taking this in with different eyes and ears and hearts. And um, yeah, I just think this is just it's such a profound piece of art, it really is. I think one of the biggest themes, especially on this re-listen, because I I don't revisit Assassins as much as I do other Sondheim works just because of how it's structured of Do you know anything about how this was written, the the show itself?

[8:29] Jess: Uh like the source material or like John Widman's book or anything like that.

[8:33] Grace Aki: All of the above. John Wideman basically wrote everything himself and then Sondheim wrote everything himself, and then they just came together and I was like, uh-uh, this works, I guess. Let's put it together. And I'd be lying if you can't it feels like it was written by two separate people at two separate instances. So it works for this piece. It would never work for any other musical on the book. That's that's the thing. That's what's so crazy about it. Is that like it it is one of those few times where you go, Yeah, the book is the book and the music is the music, and they somehow work together like a daggum PB and J.

[9:04] Jess: Yeah.

[9:05] Grace Aki: Um, and it's one of the most effective political musicals, um among the big three that people always bring up, which is Evita, Assassins, Chess, and uh Hamilton.

[9:15] Jess: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[9:16] Grace Aki: Like the those are the ones that almost I I wouldn't include chess, because chess doesn't really work. Um They they've been working on it. They've been trying to get that one to work. Um they'll get there one day. Tim Rice is gonna keep flying that flag.

[9:29] Jess: Um really well. But it's the idea that everyone is entitled to the American dream instead of everyone having the opportunity for the American dream.

[9:38] Grace Aki: Yes.

[9:39] Jess: Like it's well there's a lot of entitlement in a lot of it.

[9:42] Grace Aki: Yeah. And I think that's very effective as the overall theme and getting it from the point of view of these horrible quote unquote people, and then not seeing the outside world until the end when something just broke, which was a very late addition into the show.

[9:58] Jess: I think only added for the 2004 revival.

[10:01] Grace Aki: Yeah. Um It was it was right after if you if you kind of like think about, you know, New York especially, yeah, post-9-11. Um, there was there was that.

[10:10] Jess: Yeah, and it's m it's it it gives I can see why the original production didn't land as well as the revival did, because if you don't have that song, it kind of loses all the meaning of the show. It it kind of defeats the thesis of the show.

[10:24] Grace Aki: Um, but now we're talking about the show itself. Um it was like our third episode. It's not a good episode of Musicals with Cheese, don't listen to it.

[10:31] Jess: Um, just uh just a little thing.

[10:33] Grace Aki: We were still way to sell the show.

[10:35] Jess: You're like, um, yeah, we don't know.

[10:37] Grace Aki: We don't know.

[10:38] Jess: Um, it wasn't like that.

[10:40] Grace Aki: Just we were still figuring out what our show was by episode three.

[10:42] Jess: Um we'll revisit it one day, but I want to talk about this album here.

[10:47] Grace Aki: Um what do you think the biggest difference is between this version, this new interpretation of Assassins and all the previous versions?

[10:54] Jess: I think the thing that and especially everyone is it because I'm clocking it today as we're recording, um, you know, because that the album just released, uh especially on social media is that people are um so excited about the orchestrations, and I think that that is the real key here.

[11:10] Grace Aki: Um like I keep I I talk I've talked so much about like the not only the orchestrations, but also like the band and instrumentation and even like even learning the daggum guitar, like you know, to play on stages of Balladier and and uh the way that the music I I you know I and I'm such a little sucker for a folk musical, I really am.

[11:32] Jess: I just think that this one actually hits the like homeland feel that the show is actually trying to do.

[11:39] Grace Aki: Um, they actually did it this time. And I don't know if it's because Bright Star has come out and we are all inspired by Bright Star. I don't know if that's the thing, Jess. I just know that it is that it is because of Bright Star.

[11:50] Jess: I mean, all things are due to Bright Star, the success of Broadway.

[11:53] Grace Aki: But like, look at Swept Away coming up, you know what I mean? Like, have you listened to anything from that? Like the Avett Brothers, there's and I and I know that I particularly am very addicted to this sound, but there's something to be said for the fact that like that is starting to move.

[12:08] Jess: Girl from the North Country, like people are really starting to understand, and even like post Once, like hearing strings that way and hearing, you know, guitar in this this manner.

[12:19] Grace Aki: I'm just obsessed.

[12:20] Jess: Well, I'm sad there's not more banjo.

[12:22] Grace Aki: Um, I think Steve Martin needs to come back write a new banjo musical because Bright Star. If you knew Grace in when she was 18 years old going by herself to uh the Memorial Auditorium Chattanooga Tennessee to see Steve Canyon Rangers featuring Steve Martin on banjo.

[12:39] Jess: It was not Steve Martin headlining he was just playing banjo in the Steep Canyon Rangers band and if you've never heard the song Call the Captain I'm plugging in now.

[12:48] Grace Aki: But no I I agree with you he needs to do another I'll write the book I'll say it.

[12:53] Jess: Oh yeah I I think that would be the um, you know what do the banjo um music for to kill a mockingbird come on come on it's been pitched I I'd pay good money for that I would um sell my soul because I I can't financially fund that but I would like to um you know give my thoughts oh come on Steve Martin has enough money he's got enough that Selena Gomez TV show money listen that show is special do you watch it?

[13:25] Grace Aki: I I'm about halfway through it.

[13:27] Jess: It's really cute.

[13:28] Grace Aki: It is so cute.

[13:29] Jess: Can you imagine that that was not that role was um intended for um oh gosh what's his name from uh from from from uh Three Musketeers and Chevy Chase.

[13:41] Grace Aki: Yeah Chevy Chase.

[13:43] Jess: I don't know why I couldn't find Chevy Chase but can you imagine being like well now it's Selena Gomez I can see the pitch for it being Chevy Chase and everyone's like yeah of course that that that makes sense and then it being Selena Gomez it's like Grace Aki coming on musicals with cheese.

[13:58] Grace Aki: It's like oh that's such a brilliant choice. No one no one will have paired these three people in a room together.

[14:04] Jess: And we will somehow fan edit all of our heads onto the cast members of that show because that would be absolutely perfect.

[14:12] Grace Aki: Honestly, you, mean Andrew solving mysteries together sounds like my dream scenario for retirement.

[14:17] Jess: Yeah, in New York City doing a podcast.

[14:19] Grace Aki: It's literally the same show.

[14:21] Jess: Oh my god. But where's Nathan Lane?

[14:25] Grace Aki: To be frank, where is Nathan Lane? Because he has to appear in both.

[14:28] Jess: Um, you're right. Just to have Nathan Lane be Nathan Lane.

[14:31] Grace Aki: Why do we have to not make him Nathan Lane?

[14:33] Jess: I agree. We should never we we've gotta stop casting Nathan Lane as characters.

[14:37] Grace Aki: I respect him as an actor, but respectfully show up as Nathan Lane, sir. Like there's a gotta be a like, do the Stan Lee thing. Every time you're in a movie, you're just you're just you. Yeah, and we are all okay with that. Yeah, I love Nathan Lane. Um, you know what? I'm I'm gonna disagree. He should be an Assassin's um Sam Vick. Oh, yeah. Which if if we're gonna tie it back, and Grot Illusion, talk about it. There's so much to talk about. I I want to talk about the song structure really quick. Because you want to just go track by track really quick, see what we can do. Since we are talking about an album specifically, um, everybody's got the right, which is the opening number. Um these orchestrations, like I think you saw my tweet yesterday where that that that song being put out there, and my gosh.

Um, it's smaller than usual and it works better as a smaller piece, in my opinion. One of his teams. Rich man born and black or white. Pick your apple, take a bite. Everybody just holds tight to your dreams. Everybody's got the right. I think that that's I I think the simplicity of all of it helps the words come through, but it's also not overshadowing it. It's complimenting it. It's what orchestrations are supposed to do in musicals, which they historically sometimes fail at. I feel like the 2004 Revival, which was the album I was the most familiar with, is still riding the Euro invasion a little bit too much, where it sounds a little too big, a little too broad away in the classical sense.

It's a very Neil Patrick Harris moment, isn't it? Yes. Isn't it funny? Like I don't even mean to, like, he's incredible. I just and he and he listens to the show. That was a weird discovery, wasn't it? That was an exciting discovery. And I just want to say, Neil, if you're listening. Um, like he, especially when I saw him in company as well. Like, he is such a Sondheim person, and like he, you know, him doing um Sweeney Todd as well. Like, there is when he is involved, there there is a big production of it, which makes sense. Um, but I do like that this one is more, and this is something that's been cited in a couple of um critiques, is that it's stripped down. And I don't view that as like a negative.

I I really like that because you know I'm a s I'm a simple girl, and uh, I think that it adds to the flavor of the show. It's the it's the cracked black pepper of Assassins. That's brilliant. Um, I I don't think this should go to Broadway. I don't think this should transfer at all, unless it's going to Circle in the Square. Like that would be my only my only caveat. I really think that this should stay small. And do you well uh my question is do you believe that it should stay in a round scenario if it were to move? Yes. I tend to think that if you're structured for a round, stay there. I recently saw the I think you saw the Oklahoma the. I'm glad you brought this up. I was just talking to someone about this.

I want to hear your thoughts. I love the production. Incredible. I miss it being in the round. Um I it feels so much less intimate, so much less emotionally connective. Um that isn't to say I didn't have those moments. Um Ali Hackham squirted beer all over my glasses and ruined my vision for act two. So there was some of those like audience participation romance, but nowhere near as intimate as it will is at the circle in the square. And I felt the same way about Fun Home when it started at the Circle and the Square. And then toured it. Because you know, it was it was it had a proscenium. It had uh it when it was at the public, it was, you know, straight on. Um and then when it moved, it developed, you know, that and and Sam Gold, like it was just it was a fantastic direction, right?

Yeah. And I think that when you start to tour that kind of show, especially the people that saw it before and and like what you're saying now, people have just already it's like giving somebody the best kachu at Pip that they've ever had. And then they go home and they're like, I'm gonna make Kachua Pip. And then they like make it with like macaroni or something, and you're like, well, that's not the same. And then you're like, well, yeah, no crap. Like it's you've already experienced all this umami, you've already experienced all of this, you know, insight, and you can watch it a hundred times and have a different experience, like you do at Fun Home. And I agree with you, like the magic of this being in a round was so good.

I got to watch every actor's uh and musician's expressions while other people like and and the movement, because there wasn't like a it wasn't incredibly involved. It's not like there was a kick line, there was no dance number. It was just like, you know, it just um it felt very real. Like I was in a room with people that were bad, which is not fun. It's terrifying. And I look at a lot of those the Oh my pirate bootlegs of the Assassin's 2004 production. Right. And like it's all recorded from the balcony and it just feels like so disconnected, like you're watching it on a screen. But if you're right there and no matter what, you have to be right there, it's so much more terrifying. And as soon as you put this in the Imperial Theater or something, it's gonna lose all that magic.

Yeah, yeah. I I I hear you. I think that people underestimate the power of of that intimacy, and we've been having that discussion a lot in a lot of shows that have transferred from off Broadway or even in London and um, you know, smaller houses that when they get in these bigger Broadway houses, I know that they've got to sell. This is a business, yeah. Um, but we're losing so much of the uh intimate nature of a smaller show, and I wish that there was a financial way to um fund these things um accurately and and make sure that um we're still getting that same that same feel. Um I have to respect someone like Howard Ashman that when he was offered to take a little shop to Broadway, I was like, no, no, no, this is not a Broadway show.

And he was right, he was right. When it was on Broadway, I think it was uh people um were like, well, um and I feel the same way about Hedwig. Hedwig is, you know, one of my favorite, it's probably my favorite show of all time. I have literally The Origin of Love tattooed to my rib cage. And and I couldn't afford to see Neil if you're listening. Um but um one one man performance right here on Zoom. Right, right, right. Come on the podcast and see for Morton of Love. Um I I love it, but I love the cast recording, and and that's the thing is like it was grand, and they really did do it well because I love the Belasco Theater. They killed it, but to be honest, it I do love the intimacy of it. So um, yeah, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Yeah.

At least they added that to the text of that headwig production. Um my gosh, so well. It was a very smart move, and even in the tour, um, that worked pretty well. Um, and shout out to one of my dear dears, Mason Alexander Park, who toured uh with that company, who I would die to see. I mean, uh, they do it all the time, um, when they're uh perfectly asked, but they should be headlining that show in New York again. I want that again. Let's go back to Assassin's. Let's talk about the ballad of booth.

[21:45] ♪ Musical number ♪

[22:23] Grace Aki: And I did it for my country. They will understand it later. What Johnny Booth was a headstrong fella. Even he believed the things he said. Some called him noble, some said yellow. What he was a Zock's head. How could you do it, Johnny? Call it in a cause. You left a legislative. Pasquale. Pasquale, Pasquale, Pasqual Pasqual. Pasquale might be the most no-brainer casting of John Wilkes Booth I have ever heard of.

[23:28] Grace Aki: Like I I the uh last two choices were basically two men doing the same performance, which is Victor Garber and Michael Serverus, who tend to step into each other's roles quite often. Um the no other bald men on Broadway. And and I'll say this, because he did pass away. Um Michael Servers' uh wig consultant um recently passed away. He was a he was a big wig designer um on Broadway, but um he noted that he had he had covered his head in so many shows. And it's so funny because I agree with you. I was like thinking, wait a second, is Michael Servers like the most famous bald man on Broadway that can do bald or not bald? Yeah. I don't know. But he is fantastic, and I am obsessed with him, and I did get to meet him at the Ant Man 2 premiere, and I was more interested in meeting him than I was literally anybody else.

I remember seeing Ant-Man 2 and then being like, is that fucking Michael Cerberus? You know it was, baby. Um I briefly met him um after a sh performance of Fun Home, and he was very, very nice. Oh, spe speaking of Funhome though. Oh, yeah. Judy Kune. Oh, we'll get to her. We'll get to her. She's so incredible. Holding my tears back. She is so good in this. Um, but I like how his interpretation of this song. He plays it much more muted than any other version. Like Victor Garber and Michael Service are very big and theatrical with how they are doing it. And Steven um tends to be much more muted. Um, one of my favorite videos on the internet, um, at least it used to be before one of them turned out to not not not want to get vaccinated, was him singing If I loved you with Laura Osnis.

Um, and he just plays it as if he's playing it for camera, not for theater. And I think that works for that role, and it works for this one too. Much smaller. You know, he has been in this role for many years. Yeah. Um, he did this at Encore a couple of years back. Um, you know, that that cast was also incredibly special. And he they, you know, he he made sure that like when they were doing that at Classic Stage, like he was back in that role and he was fantastic. So he's gotten to sit in that for such a long time that if you think about it, those choices are incredibly deliberate. Yeah, they're incredibly sighted. They are he he and he's also incredibly like politically inclined. Um, and I'm I don't think I'm like speaking on behalf of or anything.

Like if you look at anything that he does and what he cares about and and where he you know um puts his his uh power and and um time into that that's part of it. And so I think there's just some some very special connection before besides the fact that he has one of the best voices you've ever heard in your life. You know, uh everyone talks about Bridges Madison County a million times. I'll tell you, when I was at Robert Bridegroom, I was so floored by by how exciting his performance was that I went back a couple more times. Um he's just so fantastic, he was so and I want to say this he was so incredibly kind to work with. There were many times where, you know, like, you know, it's a studio, like everybody's doing the show, and and um they're you know, everybody was so excited to get back together because think about it, this show closed too early.

Yes. There were um a couple of um instances, unfortunately, of positive COVID cases that are just unavoidable in New York City. You know, this is no uh slight to any of the actors that ended up testing positive. It just unfortunately ended the run early because they don't have the, you know, we don't have the coverage. And so getting to see this cast get together and see each other again, getting to sing a score that they love. Um, you could just tell like he was definitely one of the leaders of the pack in that movement uh of kindness. And so I just want to say that hearing it, it's it's upsetting that he's playing such a horrible person. But at the same time, like it's so thoughtful and it's so intentional and it's so well executed that that ballad of booth that you're referring to, that is the first take.

And that's all you needed, you know. So um hopefully wink wink nod nod, you'll get to see that take um later on. But uh yeah. Um I do want to say he is one of the most prolific actors as well as proper singers. Um there's a show, the the I mean I'm talking I don't know why I talk to you like I'm talking to Andrew. You know this show. Um I can't I struggle with The Wild Party by Andrew Lippa quite often. Okay, he stepped into that on the Encores. And he brought new life to a very two-dimensional character in a way that he does in all these things. Like Booth, in all honesty, isn't that dimensional a character, but he plays it as if there is so much more and take brings so much more to it. Um I'd be very interested.

What would you cast him in if you like had carte blanche to put him in anything, a revival of anything to reinterpret? I oh I mean it's it's hard to not think about this because it's it's still out there. You know what I mean? Like it still hasn't been revived. So that's my first instinct. That's such a good question. I actually feel like he would also be a very good because we're talking about it, Bruce Bechtel, um in Fun Home. He actually might be a really interesting choice for that, even though I I prefer that to be a man who identifies and I don't know his whole history, and I I don't presume to know anyone's um uh sexual proclivities. Um, but you know, I tend to like that role to be to uh a person in the gay community. Um I don't know. I don't know. That's such a good question. I need to I need to sit on that. I might revisit it later in the show. All right, I got a pitch for you.

[29:07] Grace Aki: Gritty reboot of Shrek, the musical.

[29:10] Grace Aki: Okay, first of all, only if I'm in it. Only if I'm in it. And if I'm in it, I'm probably understanding Pippasu who's playing Fiona. But I, you know, I've done it before, and I will do it again. Am I not really tall enough to play the adult Fiona? Do I have to play middle Fiona? Probably. Will I actually just be cast as Jinji? You bet. Um, but I think that's such a good take. I don't know that he would like the green makeup. I I'm thinking like minimalist, like just a headband. Like I'm thinking like a Disney bound Shrek. No, no, I'm thinking like a steampunk leaning Shrek, like a really deconstructed version of Shrek where you always kind of see the people. Like I'd say lean into the darker elements.

If somebody steals this idea from you, they are smart. I think that's brilliant. Yeah, I think that he's just one of those people that I kind of want on Broadway rotating at all times. I think that there's a lot of people in the show that are like that for me. What, watch him be announced to the next Seymour. No, come on. No. No. No, that's a big no. But he does great. Um, it takes a lot of men to make a gun.

[30:29] Jess: Hundreds, many men to make a gun. Men in the mines to dig the iron. Men at the mills to forge the steel. Men at the machines to turn the barrel. And all you have to do is move your little finger. Move your little finger, and you can change the world. Why should you be blue when you move your little finger?

[31:17] Grace Aki: The gun song. This one is super special in this album to me because it is not led by a pedophile, but I love this song. It's probably one of Sondheim's most gorgeous numbers ever. And it's about guns and violence and how they can literally change the world. Literally, this and, um, like, these are my friends, see how they glisten. Like, you know, you can side by side these songs about, um, people, uh, killing devices, you know, Sweeney Todd and this, and I love that without even seeing any of the items, without seeing a person, this song makes you visualize every feeling that must come with the power that weapons wield. And I think that that's what's so eerie about this song, and, um, like it sits and shivers when you listen to it, you're like, oh, it's so gross, but it's also really good.

Um, now let's talk about Judy Kuhn, who does appear in this song very briefly and interprets those lines that are goofy and put her in a comedy. I want to see Judy Kuhn's name. I didn't think about the fact that she was funny ever, which I should, I should give everybody the benefit of the doubt that everybody has the right to be funny, but a lot of people, guess what? I hate to tell you this, they're not, and they think they are. But this woman, my goodness, when I saw her shooting at a dadgum KFC bucket on stage, I was losing my marbles. It was so funny.

[32:45] Jess: Um, agreed. Um, and in the album, she comes across very well, but she's playing it much less broadly. I feel like she's playing it more honest, which makes the joke land better than other wonderful places. Like, she is not. I'm saying like the character, like she's, she's like, oh, like playing with a gun, a thing that like, I don't know, murders people. Like it was just, it was, it's sad to say it was funny because it's a weird way to put it, but it was funny. I mean, dark comedy is like the bread and butter of this show. Um, while we're talking about Judy Kuhn, and she brings comedy to a lot of roles that don't always seem like it needs it in the first place. Like, have you seen any of her performance in Passion as Fosca?

[33:28] Grace Aki: So I'll tell you this. Um, Robbie Rosal, friend of the pod, my dear, dear, uh, refers to her as Fosca Hontis, which is the funniest thing that I've ever heard in my life. Um, like I'm not gonna pretend like that is his joke and it should stay his joke. Um, but no, I've not seen her. No.

[33:47] Jess: Okay. Everyone else, from Patti LuPone to Donna Murphy to everyone really plays up the melodrama where Judy Kuhn leans into the ridiculousness of it all, like of what Fosca's doing. She's playing it much more modern, much more tongue-in-cheek in a way that almost makes it sadder when it falls away. So she brings a lot of humor in that side, and we're gonna talk a lot about Fun Home today, it turns out. And Fun Home, um, in one of the most tragic roles in that show. Yeah, she deadpans some of the funniest lines in that show and does not get enough credit for how funny she is, because I've seen other people play that role and they're just like, eh, I'm sad, and they're removing the cynicism that Judy Kuhn brought to it.

She, because I think that what's so funny about it is that like you're watching a woman who is exhausted. Like she has to keep up appearances. It's, and let me tell you, it's exhausting. And like she is just, she understands that like dry sense of humor that I think that people have to adapt when you are in that was an abusive marriage. Like, you know what I mean? So I, um, I really appreciated that performance.

[35:00] Grace Aki: And I'll tell you quickly, uh, a little story about, uh, when I was, when so I got to be in the studio room a couple of times while they were recording, even though like, you know, we're very protective mask of everybody, um, COVID testing the day of especially. Um, and so I was in the room and we were, they were recording the gun song, gun song, I should say. Um, and in Sondheim's libretto, it's gunsong, and then in one album, it's called The Gun Song, which is totally strange. Um, but it is called Gun Song. I'm sure he was real unhappy about that. Wrote a strongly worded letter. It's, oh, I wish we had the letter. No, I don't know. Um, go to the laugh on everything. Um, but yeah, like so I was in the room and I'm watching them go through the song, and it's like, uh, chilling, right?

And then we get to her part and she's cracking me up, and I'm so scared I'm gonna laugh. And then I'm listening to her, and this weird feeling comes over my body, and I started crying. And famously I'm emotional, but I was like, why am I crying? Like, I actually could not figure it out. And I like walked out of the room after the take. And then I realized like my mother is so closely associated with Judy's voice in my head, because we, I grew up listening to the Pocahontas soundtrack in the car every single day, like for the first like five years of my life or something. Like, like it was every day we would flip over the tape and we would listen to it and we would sing along with it. And when I saw Fun Home, I saw so much of my mother in her that I also associate the Fun Home album and Judy's out songs with my mother.

And so hearing Judy literally singing live in front of me on this thing, and like my mother's sense of dry humor, I just miss my mom so much. I haven't seen her in a couple of months. Um, but even then, like it's just been, you know, it's been so hard. And so it was just so insane to me that hearing her voice would like trigger a memory. And I was like, and I walked out, and Rob, I think it was Robbie or someone else that was there. It was like, are you okay? And I was like, I just miss my mom. Listening to the gun song being like, I miss my mom. Uh, so yeah, it was just absolutely strange, but that's the power that voices have over us, especially when we've grown up with cast recordings, and that's what it's just what happens.

[37:15] Jess: That story just touched my heart. Sorry.

[37:17] Grace Aki: Thank you for sharing that. That really meant a lot. I really appreciated that. Um, I, I yeah, hard agree on all that. Um, let's move on to Cholgosh. Um, this song.

[37:29] Jess: I'm told that in his spare time he enjoyed collecting coins.

[37:39] Grace Aki: Joel Gosh, angry man said, I will do what a poor man can. Yes, and there's nowhere more fitting than in the temple of music by the Tower of Light between the fountain of abundance and the court of lilies at the great Pan American exposition in Buffalo.

[37:56] Jess: In Buffalo. Wrapped him a handkerchief round his gun. Said nothing wrong about what I've done. Some men have everything, and some have none. That's by design. The idea was in my own but mine. And that's a sign in the USA. You can have your say, you can set your goals and seize the day. You've been given the freedom to work your way to the head of the line. To the head of the line.

[38:35] Grace Aki: Nobody can get it like Brandon Uranowitz. I'll just say that. Like Brandon, and I've said this before, so apologies if this sounds weird, but like Brandon can get it. I've seen him in so many shows, like Falsettos, he carries this energy and confidence and like direct execution of character that again, he's just one of those people where you're like, you need to be in everything. You execute scenes so well. You are such a good scene partner, and like I appreciate this number from him very much.

[39:07] Jess: Yeah, he does. He plays it with a lot of empathy in a way that a lot of people just kind of lean into the goofy side of it, because inherently it is kinda silly. Um, but I, I think jokes land better if you play them dead straight, um, and you just kind of laugh at the absurdity of it. That's why things like Roger Rabbit work so well is the fact that you're playing it dead straight despite the fact that he's kind of—

[39:23] Grace Aki: Are you saying that Roger Rabbit is similar to Assassins? Because I want that to be the pull quote.

[39:34] Jess: Yes, it is. Um, Robbie, put that on the album. Good. Credit it to me. Make that byline or something.

[39:40] Grace Aki: Um, Brandon Uranowitz is one of those actors who I think is gonna transfer to film very soon in a very big way. Um, like even remember in Fosse/Verdon where he has like a tiny part playing Dustin Hoffman.

[39:54] Jess: Like you know who else is in Fosse/Verdon? Ethan Slater.

[39:58] Grace Aki: Yeah.

[40:00] Jess: Um, everything's connected in the theater world.

[40:03] Grace Aki: Um, but he just has a screen magnetism to him. And I think as much as I love everyone in the Falsettos, um, uh, pro show.

[40:12] Jess: Falsetto land, if you will.

[40:13] Grace Aki: Yes. He is very much like the one that the camera loves the most in that pro shot. As I know that Christian Borle and Stephanie J. Block have all like done their film and TV roles, but the camera loves Brandon Uranowitz there.

[40:28] Jess: Yeah, he's really, really stellar.

[40:30] Grace Aki: Yeah, Andrew Randalls. I mean, it's a star-studded cast. Also, also I'll I want to shout this out. Anthony Rosenthal, friend of mine, and also his mom. Like, he's so good. And he was on a podcast recently talking about that experience because he's now an adult man.

[40:43] Jess: Yeah.

[40:44] Grace Aki: That's what's insane. I'm like, I knew this kid like doing Newsies. He's one of the little lessons.

[40:49] Jess: Yeah.

[40:49] Grace Aki: And now he's an adult man. But um, no, we love Falsettos. I, we fun fact since you brought up Anthony's mom. Um, leave a review on the Musicals with Cheese um Apple, uh, Apple iTunes page. Um, she used the name Tiffany Axelrod, and she was just like, they did a very sweet episode about Falsettos, and I liked how they all gave a chance for each other to say their own opinions. And I was like, this is so cute. I love it. I love her. Um, so I will always hold her in my heart, that person I have never met, um, who gave our podcast a listen back when we had like three fans. That was very, very kind of her.

[41:26] Jess: Pure.

[41:28] Grace Aki: Um, very pure. Um, and Anthony heard nothing but good things about him. He's gonna be a very, very big star one day if he isn't already. Sweet boy. Speaking of very sweet, unworthy of your love, one of my favorite Sondheim ballads of all time. Very funny song in context, very cute song out of context.

[41:42] Jess: Yeah.

[41:46] Grace Aki: I would come take you from your vice. I would come take you from yourself. You would be queen to me, not wife. I would crawl very deep through hell. Baby, I died for you. Baby, I died for you. I was always I am unworthy of your love.

[42:17] Jess: Charlie Dark.

[42:19] Grace Aki: Let me prove worthy of your love. I'll find a way to earn your love. Wait and see me. Then you will turn your love to me. It's it, and when you're listening to it and you don't, you haven't seen the show or anything, you're like, I don't know who Jody is, and I don't know, you know, who, um, any of these people of Charlie is, but I'm sure that they're, you know, sweet doting partners, and they are each other, and um, they are both, uh, unaware of these people's, uh, admirations and love. Charlie probably, uh, is very aware of hers.

[43:04] Jess: Um, but, uh, Jodie Foster is unaware of this song's existence, probably not now, uh, but then yeah. Fun fact, um, John Hinckley has been released from prison and now uploads a lot of YouTube videos of him singing songs. Um, he has like court mandated that he has to submit his internet history to the courts and all that, but he's still posting these fucking terrible songs on the internet. He's literally nothing has changed, and he gives the vibe exactly how John Wideman wrote this book. Like I feel like he was not far off the mark here. Isn't it so strange? And I'll just say this quickly like that we forget these are real people, and that's what I think we need to like remember a lot of times with this.

[43:49] Grace Aki: These are real people that um apparently also are still alive.

[43:53] Jess: Yep.

[43:53] Grace Aki: Uh Squeaky's still alive.

[43:55] Jess: Right.

[43:55] Grace Aki: Out walking the streets.

[43:56] Jess: She could be listening to this podcast right now.

[43:58] Grace Aki: How are you doing, Squeaky?

[43:59] Jess: You know she's not.

[44:01] Grace Aki: You know, I think she might be.

[44:03] Jess: I think she might be.

[44:04] Grace Aki: Squeaky.

[44:05] Jess: If you're if you're listening, leave an iTunes review.

[44:05] Grace Aki: Leave an iTunes review.

[44:09] Jess: Um, I wonder if these people that are still alive have heard this musical and heard how they are portrayed in the show.

[44:16] Grace Aki: I don't know.

[44:17] Jess: There's this weird thing about like, and I've I've touched on this briefly, like, especially on Twitter about like, you know, people that have been in really exploitative environments, especially like we're I'm particularly talking about right now with like the Kim Ye of it all and like Pam Anderson, which is kind of a different thing. But more so to say that like once it's out of your hands, your life is out of your hands, and people make art from your story, it's wild, you know.

[44:42] Grace Aki: So I can't I can't imagine how that feels. I hope that never happens to me. Um, and I just uh yeah, so I I'm curious too. I wonder if they have experienced um any of this.

[44:54] Jess: Who knows?

[44:54] Grace Aki: Yeah. Um very interesting. I will say I have not seen the full show. I've not seen this production.

[44:59] Jess: It is interesting that they both come off very normal in this song.

[45:06] Grace Aki: Is that how does that shown in the stage show proper? How are they portrayed in the stage show?

[45:11] Jess: It's definitely up to actors' interpretation, absolutely, but I will say that I think that not to I think that the term to humanize them is is incorrect, but you know, they are trying to say, like, these are real people walking among us. You might be one of them. Um, and they are some of them are really eccentric. Um, you know, Tavi's interpretation of of Squeaky in some times was like very bug-eyed and like crazed in moments, but then also like, you know, uh demure, like, you know, uh kind of more reserved in some stances, and um it was Adam's like John Hinckley was as uh charismatic in points. Like, you know, it's just like all of us have all range, and um I think that that is that is what's kind of cool about it is that they're kind of normalized, like they're they're human people.

[45:56] Grace Aki: Um Gateau, cucaloocuo. Uh Will Swinson, you got like sir, you were unhinged and it was hot and awesome. Um yeah, it just depends. I think it depends on uh that director. I it's just an interesting choice, not a bad or good thing. It's just like this is different from the way I'm used to hearing it.

[46:15] Jess: I was thinking um I I Adam seems very, very cute for John Hinckley, like as weird as that sounds. He seems like his voice sounds a little bit boy bandish in a way.

[46:26] Grace Aki: He and there was a great article. I don't know if it was Juan Ramirez who wrote it or I I can't remember, but um, it was about how like Adam Chandler Bratt's voice shaped a generation of musical theater guys.

[46:39] Jess: Yes.

[46:39] Grace Aki: And and it's so accurately put put. It's it's a great article. I should just send it to you anyway, so that you can have it in the you know show notes or whatever.

[46:45] Jess: But um, yeah, it's uh it it that's exactly what it is. He's perfect. Perfect for me.

[46:52] Grace Aki: Perfect for me.

[46:54] Jess: Um while we're talking about new albums. Can we please get a new album of Next to Normal?

[46:58] Grace Aki: Um I don't even need a revival at this point, just do a new album.

[47:02] Jess: That revival might be coming.

[47:04] Grace Aki: Um, you know, they did the Kennedy Center.

[47:06] Jess: Um, and I would like to see Brandon Victor Dixon in the dad role.

[47:10] Grace Aki: Oh, yeah. Uh I think that that would be fantastic.

[47:12] Jess: Um, and Rachel Bay Jones as well. Like, I I think it I think it should have another go. It should have another album.

[47:18] Grace Aki: You didn't like the first one, or the only one that's out?

[47:21] Jess: Think things have changed in the world.

[47:24] Grace Aki: Whatever could you be talking about?

[47:26] Jess: I'm joking.

[47:27] Grace Aki: Um no, I totally hear you. I think I think it's also time for for um a cast uh that has a little bit more uh you know different diversity or or just like you know, a bipod cast. I would really appreciate um it you know, mental illness is not limited to a privileged white experience.

[47:46] Jess: So um I think that uh yeah, it would be nice. I I also have this might be an unpopular opinion.

[47:52] Grace Aki: I think the ending needs some revision.

[47:55] Jess: Um it has a very kind of don't get help, don't get medicated, um, they're just out to hurt you message at the end that feels a little more hollow now.

[48:07] Grace Aki: That's the thing. I think now is the key word. I think we know so much more than we did.

[48:11] Jess: Yes.

[48:12] Grace Aki: And I think that we have had more experiences. We have social media more so than we did back then.

[48:18] Jess: And so I think that there's no question that the the writers would probably s have a new lens on it. Any director would have a new lens on it.

[48:26] Grace Aki: Um so yeah, I don't think that that's a hot take. I think that's just accurate.

[48:30] Jess: Yeah, so if uh I think that's one of many reasons why we need a revival of Next to Normal.

[48:36] Grace Aki: Yeah. Also, I would be very interested to see if Natalie it's a very specific thing that that character's going through. And this isn't my experience, but imagine if she was um a person of a different race, an adopted child, um instead of another born, so that disconnect from her mother from their one quote unquote born child that didn't work out.

[48:57] Jess: Um that could add a new layer of dimensions and diversity to that cast.

[49:03] Grace Aki: Also, I would love it if the dad and the son had voices that sounded different from each other.

[49:08] Jess: Yeah, that's fair. You know, you know who uh really brought it as the dad?

[49:13] Grace Aki: Our boy Shrek.

[49:14] Jess: Yeah.

[49:16] Grace Aki: Steven Pasquale.

[49:18] Jess: Stephen Pasquale.

[49:20] Grace Aki: He was doing it. He should oh, you know who what he would kill it?

[49:21] Jess: He would kill it.

[49:25] Grace Aki: Um, wow, that that that you know what? Put him as the doctor.

[49:29] Jess: Bring some new dimension to the doctor character there.

[49:31] Grace Aki: Yeah, because I don't want Brandon Victor Dixon to not be in that role. Come on.

[49:34] Jess: Yeah, Daddy D. He can't lose that role. We love him.

[49:38] Grace Aki: Yeah, or you know, there's a lot. Audrey McDonald as the doctor.

[49:42] Jess: Come on.

[49:43] Grace Aki: She would I can't she's just so hot.

[49:46] Jess: She's so good.

[49:48] Grace Aki: And she's just she's busy with the Gilded Age.

[49:51] Jess: As is most of the cast of anything. That's part of the reason why I I I'm conflicted on the Gilded Age.

[49:58] Grace Aki: Like, yeah, you're all getting work, but it also means oh no, you guys probably can't do that many shows now.

[50:03] Jess: They've already filmed it, they're fine.

[50:04] Grace Aki: I mean, they get renewed for another season.

[50:06] Jess: Yeah.

[50:07] Grace Aki: My friend um Taylor Richardson is the um uh like Irish um one of the housekeepers, the young one that's like in not in love, but in love with the boy.

[50:16] Jess: Um, she's really really sweet, and uh I'm glad that she has more work.

[50:21] Grace Aki: Yes, very glad everyone has more work, but also do Bright Star 2.

[50:25] Jess: Come on.

[50:26] Grace Aki: Bright Star 2 Electric Boogaloo. I'm ready.

[50:28] Jess: Alright, next song, let's go.

[50:30] Grace Aki: This one is the ballad of Gateau.

[50:38] Jess: The Lord Hill on the bright side, not on the sad side.

[50:46] Grace Aki: Inside the bad side, something's good.

[50:49] Jess: This is a golden opportunity.

[50:51] Grace Aki: You've been a preacher, yes, I you've been an offer, yes, huh?

[50:55] Jess: You've been a killer, yes.

[50:58] Grace Aki: You could be an angel.

[51:00] Jess: Wait until tomorrow.

[51:02] Grace Aki: Tomorrow hello I'm aboard.

[51:04] Jess: What if you never got to be president?

[51:06] Grace Aki: You'll be remembered.

[51:09] Jess: Look on the bright side.

[51:11] Grace Aki: Trust us in love.

[51:13] Jess: Hello.

[51:18] Grace Aki: Yeah.

[51:19] Jess: Have you ever seen the productions of Assassins done by little children?

[51:25] Grace Aki: Um, no.

[51:26] Jess: What are you talking about?

[51:28] Grace Aki: There is a YouTube video of like fifth graders performing a sac.

[51:32] Jess: It's funniest thing I've ever heard.

[51:34] Grace Aki: These assassins get hung or electrocuted.

[51:36] Jess: It is the funniest thing on the planet.

[51:38] Grace Aki: And I have watched these like moments. Like I can't watch the whole thing because it's children doing something really messed up.

[51:45] Jess: But watching a child get electrocuted or hung in a way that's like actually stagecrafted to be that way.

[51:51] Grace Aki: It's the weirdest thing in the world. Highly recommended.

[51:54] Jess: Um this song reminded me of that, where I just seeing like these children try to portray these horrible, horrible things that happened.

[52:03] Grace Aki: And look on the bright side, look on the bright side, look on the bright side, on the lord.

[52:09] Jess: Yeah, it's a very it's very funny, but it's also like Jesus Christ.

[52:16] Grace Aki: This is the one time I think it's only been one of three times that Sondheim has ever used someone else's lyrics.

[52:22] Jess: Oh, yeah, there you go.

[52:24] Grace Aki: Cause this is uh Gateau wrote these lyrics and asked for a choir to sing them on his execution day.

[52:31] Jess: Wild and bold.

[52:34] Grace Aki: Um, I I I I think the song's well done.

[52:36] Jess: Um, how is it staged out of curiosity?

[52:39] Grace Aki: Uh, I don't I don't perfectly remember it.

[52:42] Jess: Um, I'm pretty sure that um he was I I think from where I was sitting, he was uh upstage right.

[52:49] Grace Aki: Um or no upstage left.

[52:51] Jess: Anyways, um, but he was um very sing songy, and Will Swinson is such a presence.

[52:56] Grace Aki: Yes, the way he commanded that stage, and it was more of a runway, to be frank with you.

[53:00] Jess: The stage wasn't like a a stage where it was like kind of like a square shape.

[53:04] Grace Aki: The classic stage company, it was more of like a runway.

[53:07] Jess: So he was walking down this like striped to look like the the American flag uh runway.

[53:15] Grace Aki: And so it kind of it felt like a parade, like he was parading himself.

[53:18] Jess: Um and it was really funny.

[53:21] Grace Aki: So um, yeah, I just want to say it, you know, I know he's very busy. He's about to do the um Neil Diamond musical.

[53:28] Jess: Uh which is yeah, crazy exciting.

[53:30] Grace Aki: I'm very, very curious about it.

[53:32] Jess: But um, yeah, it's just uh it was such a silly moment performance because and also like Ethan is down front from the on this uh as as the balladier in this moment, um, kind of leading the musicians.

[53:45] Grace Aki: A lot of the musicians paraded in like a little um marching band kind of um, which like took me back, uh uh behind characters as they were singing in a line, which was really silly.

[53:57] Jess: It was kind of like a like um like a honestly, like we were parading around a hero.

[54:02] Grace Aki: You know what I mean? I th I don't know if that was the total intent of of uh John Doyle, but it looked like every time uh these assassins would have these moments, and then the band would like follow in behind and kind of like tooting their own horn and and you know, playing the flute and all this stuff, it looked like a hero's welcome, which is um chilling to think about.

[54:22] Jess: Incredible. Thank you.

[54:24] Grace Aki: Um, let's talk about another national anthem, which is the basically the thesis statement of the show.

[54:31] Jess: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's it.

[54:33] Grace Aki: There are those who love regretting. There are those who like extremes, there are those who thrive on chaos and despair.

[54:35] Jess: There are those who keep forgetting that the country's built on dreams.

[54:46] Grace Aki: People listen.

[54:47] Jess: And the male man won the lottery.

[54:50] Grace Aki: They may not want to hear it, but they listen once they think it's gonna suffer.

[54:58] Jess: They may not understand all the words all the same.

[55:02] Grace Aki: They hear the music.

[55:04] Jess: They hear the screams.

[55:05] Grace Aki: I've got news, they hear the songs, they hear the drums.

[55:09] Jess: You forgot about the country.

[55:16] Grace Aki: I love this song, and everyone flipping nails this this tune.

[55:20] Jess: Um, I I will say that the best person to ever sing it is Sondheim just at the piano in those classic MTI videos he's saying.

[55:27] Grace Aki: Right.

[55:28] Jess: They're so good. Those videos, I'm so glad that we have a lot of those, and especially like the the master classes that he would teach with students in like the 70s and stuff.

[55:37] Grace Aki: And he always talked about if he could have been anything else, he would have been a teacher.

[55:40] Jess: He loved teaching, he loved teaching his own text, he loved listening to people, even the people that like like you could tell, like some students like weren't singing this perfectly, or you know, they're not Broadway c like they were just they weren't um professional musical theater students often or whatever, but he would he would approach it with so much care.

[55:58] Grace Aki: And so, like, yeah, getting to see him sing those songs, and especially this one, um, it was you could see where the passion was and and like where the through line was for him and like where he hear where he wanted the emphasis.

[56:10] Jess: And I think that this cast also perfectly encapsulated all of that.

[56:14] Grace Aki: I I I will say it has permeated the culture of like our generation in different ways too.

[56:21] Jess: Um the album released today I saw one tweet today I don't want to say anyone but they about Ethan's dump truck ass.

[56:29] Grace Aki: I mean that's always the case.

[56:30] Jess: That's always a thought by the way I just want to be clear that's not something that I am saying is true.

[56:35] Grace Aki: I'm saying that someone tweeted about that and it was absolutely funny but also strange and why did you do that person?

[56:43] Jess: You know what I'll say it as an absolute fact his dump truck ass.

[56:47] Grace Aki: Yeah.

[56:47] Jess: They were all in those like jumpsuits and I get it. But the thing I read today like are you aware of the musical Twisted?

[56:53] Grace Aki: Uh no.

[56:53] Jess: Star Kid did this musical about Jar Jafar being like a really good guy.

[56:59] Grace Aki: Then all the Disney villains come out and start chanting about like come on you gotta make it right for us.

[57:04] Jess: D and it's literally a an homage to Assassins um but I just saw a a tweet today it said oh my god this assassin's ripped off twisted Oh that's really funny.

[57:14] Grace Aki: And I'm like oh no oh no.

[57:17] Jess: They don't know.

[57:17] Grace Aki: It's it's a it's a TikTok who gonna tell 'em so no matter what, Sondheim's integrated like references all the way up until like the next four generations and it's it sucks that we're talking about a show and a revival after he's gone.

[57:35] Jess: I think this is the first time I've properly done it from West Side story of the movie, which I don't think counts.

[57:41] Grace Aki: That don't count.

[57:42] Jess: I'll I'll tell you this um we were very we as in like you know Broadway Records and this isn't something that we've like paraded for for for a couple for many many reasons.

[57:52] Grace Aki: Um because it's uh no.

[57:54] Jess: Um but Sondheim really loved this production.

[57:59] Grace Aki: Yeah he found it to be really special um that's like uh uh consensus from from a lot of people involved but three days before um he unfortunately left us all uh he green he he he put the green light on this album um he wanted it preserved and so knowing that this cast and knowing that this production very particularly spoke to him in a way that said yes I want a third iteration of this recording because this cast is wonderful and I want to say that because people should know that this is being handled with so much love and care like you know working with his estate and his uh Rick Pappas who um his attorney who's absolutely incredible um like it's it's really special you know what I mean it's not just we thought you know we we want another one like it's it's not that at all and if you look at the other recordings on the cover it's like like really funky for me imagery that kind of kind of has nothing to say about it no no shade to any of those artists um I just don't think that it uh particularly shows you what that production was um and I appreciate that both of them are kind of like sans guns yeah um even though like one is like making like a hand uh motion and and to the gun that's a 2004 one right yeah and that was uh request a post 911 request yeah which absolutely respect and love because as a person who also doesn't like that great um with this one, I remember we we were toying around with a bunch of ideas, but I just kept hammering home that like the the reason this production is special is is the people involved, the orchestrations, the band members, the cast members, everything.

[59:44] Grace Aki: It was very important to me and so many other people that the cast was on the cover. Um, and you never know, honestly, because the recording was after the show had closed, right? We weren't sure that everybody was going to be available. So we weren't, you know, those things happen, right? Like some people book movies, some people book TV shows, some people book other shows, and they're not able to be on the cast recording of a show that they were involved in, you know, and there's all this other stuff, you know, that has to go into it. It's not just a cut and dry, we're making a cast album. Hope everybody shows up, like there's agents and all these things that you had to deal with. And so the idea that somebody might not be in it, and I'm not speaking to any particular thing, like I'm not trying to tiptoe around something.

Um, but you know, we might have not been able to use that great Julieta Cervantes photo from the production, but I was just like absolutely praying every single day that every person would sign on so that we could use it because I want everyone to point and say that production, that's the one that I love. I love seeing that like Ethan is in like the forefront of that, you know, care he just so perfectly carries that show. And so, um, and just like yeah, getting to see everybody and like antiqualusion and that ridiculous Santa outfit, like him as Sam Bick and hearing him on the album. So I know that leads into your next thing, and I just wanted to say that that is part of the importance for me, and especially like in marketing and stuff, like I want the imagery to match the product. I want it to reflect that tone.

[1:01:15] Jess: I agree. And I think the, I was about to bring up the cast album artwork is incredible, and I think it's very effective. And I'm not usually one that prefers like a picture over a design, but this works. Well, Robbie's incredible at both, and I think that he married it so well. And if you look at the booklet that's attached when you buy the album, and of course there's gonna be a physical that comes out. This is, I mean, it's my job to promote physical CDs. This is one that I will absolutely treasure forever, physically owning, even though I do not currently own a CD player. Um, I just, that's one that you're gonna want to keep the way he laid it out. Also throwing it out there because he texted me the day that he did it.

Um, my particular credit, yeah, because I'm gonna brush my shoulders off. My credit is next to the Judy Cune KFC bucket photo with Tavi Gavinson, and that just sent me. I was like, oh my god. Um, but again, like Julieta's photographs are so perfect, and um, the way that they're woven into Robbie's design and the way that it's just a gorgeous layout. I'm glad that people are talking about it because I've seen them do it, but I just want to say that again that it takes an absolute village to create all these things. So whenever people talk about loving a cast recording, get specific because people really work really hard to make that happen.

[1:02:33] Grace Aki: Incredible. And he talks of a vinyl version of it.

[1:02:36] Jess: Yeah, absolutely. Um, there's no question that that is an absolute talk. Uh, you can keep this in because uh I want to say this. Every time people talk about a vinyl production, there's no way that that conversation's not already been had, first of all. Second of all, um, vinyl production across the world is backed up almost eight months. Um, vinyl has become so popular and it has been not popular for so very long that we do not have the resources to actually source vinyl quickly right now because there's such an influx of need and not a lot of, um, you know, ability to create it. Yeah, so of course we want that. Um, but that's not something that can happen instantaneously. I don't know when that'll change, but it's been that way for about two years.

Vinyl has been extremely hard to source. So I love everyone's enthusiasm about it with every cast album and every album. I just got a Phoebe Bridgers album that I ordered over a year ago. Like that should tell you everything. So um, yeah, we're absolutely excited about that. But um, it is the truth that it's hard to get right now because it's cool.

[1:03:38] Grace Aki: Yeah, because that gets me excited. Um, yeah, uh I listened to, I love vinyls because I don't, I always get tempted to skip songs when I listen to a CD or on MP3 just because I'm impatient and, you know, newfangled. Yeah, so having the inability and just being able to lose myself into a recording, that is the joy of vinyls and I love it. Um, but let's move on.

[1:04:01] Jess: Okay, but hold on. We gotta talk about the Sam Bick in the room or the Sam Vick not in the room.

[1:04:06] Grace Aki: Yeah. Um, that was the one thing I was really a little sad about in this album. I, uh, in the last album we had all those wonderful monologues in there, and this one we didn't. Um, why was that?

[1:04:16] Jess: Andy Grotolucian's performance was so good, so well constructed. He's again done this role before. He, um, has Fiasco Theater Company. He and there's gonna be something that comes out really soon. Um, maybe around the time of this release as well. I don't know. I don't know. Um, that, uh, you can see Andy talk about the show. Andy plays Sam Vick. And um, unfortunately this album is a, it's a tight album. There's only like 11 tracks. Yes. And a lot of time slash money goes into each track, and so the availability of everything mixed with like each like it studio time plus like the track itself, like that's like another 10 grand or whatever it is. Like there's a lot that goes into each one. So it's, it's I've learned a lot about like why isn't this track on there or why is it not?

And the conversation is like so much bigger, which I didn't realize. Like I don't fault anybody for asking it that way. Right. Um, because I had no idea myself. Um, so yeah, the short answer is I don't know, man. I wish it was there too. Um, but uh yeah, it's basically um maybe later, you know, down the line that's something that like could be added as a bonus or something if we were able to like get more going there. But it's um yeah, it's definitely one part that I would love to get to have on there for sure.

[1:05:39] Grace Aki: And I will say for an argument, this is much more like shuffleable and a classic Broadway album than one.

[1:05:47] Jess: Uh, the argument can be made.

[1:05:49] Grace Aki: I was just wondering if there was an actual reason.

[1:05:51] Jess: Um, you can close the New York Stock Exchange. In Florence, Italy, a woman would leap from the Duomo clutching a picture of your victim and cursing your name. His wife will weep, the world will weep. Grief beyond imagining the death of innocence and hope. The bitter burdens which you bear, the bitter truths you carry in your heart and share them with the world. You have the power of Pandora's boxing. Open it. I envy you. Where your family respect you.

[1:07:03] Grace Aki: So let's talk about speaking of no real reason. November 22nd, 1963. Um, which is a changed title from the other productions because other albums call this take a look lead, which is interesting.

[1:07:17] Jess: Yeah, we have to like reference, um, especially like Sondheim's like original texts and and his books and all that stuff. Like, there's a lot of like thought and care, especially now this is like the first one since his passing. Um, so, you know, consulting his estate, his attorney, his uh John, like every everyone involved is is part of the naming of the the correct, you know, titles. Um, so yeah, this one, uh, after a couple of conversations and like looking at old books, like that was that was the title that that we went with.

[1:07:49] Grace Aki: Interesting choice. I I love the scene. I think it's really well performed. Um, even for an album, which I do tend to think um quite often with albums when they performing a scene, it does feel staged in a way that it doesn't on stage. It feels a little bit awkward because they're all in different booths just trying their best to audiobook their way through it. This felt so natural. It could have been like a live recording of the stage show.

[1:08:13] Jess: Right? I was very, very impressed by this one.

[1:08:15] Grace Aki: Nice.

[1:08:15] Jess: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's good. I mean, that's to me the proof, right? That it's a good cast recording is like if you feel like you're there, because that's what people want to be able to take home with them, especially if they did not get to see the production. They want to feel like they're watching it. Uh, I love Steven or sorry. I love Ethan so much. Um, I love him a lot. Um, there was a good chunk of this album where I couldn't get the SpongeBob out of my head. I couldn't stop hearing the such a bright tone that like it's so solidified with that for a lot of us but I'm kind of excited and glad that there's a now a cast recording of his voice or his voice as these characters. You know what I mean?

Because we're finally getting to hear him and and I will also plug this his Edge of the World album with Norbert Leo Butts um that he co-wrote with Nick Blameyer with starring Lily Cooper, sister of Eddie Cooper who plays the proprietor on this album, look at all that um it's a tight family in in uh New York City theater. I just saw her father um in An Anne Arbor, um he played Tevya. Oh my god it was incredible.

[1:09:26] Grace Aki: Oh man, that's wild.

[1:09:28] Jess: Um, that's very cool. But um if you listen to him on there it was like oh cool I can hear you. Like you're you're a songwriter. Like you have your own voice and so um I love that album so much. If you've not already listened to it, um it's a wonderful concept recording that I hope continues to to get more love. Um but yeah this one to me I was just like yeah that we're in another era of Ethan's voice and and his stake in musical theater now does not have to just be associated with that Tony nominated should have won performance.

[1:09:57] Grace Aki: Agreed.

[1:09:58] Jess: Um, this was the moment his the SpongeBob left and it was just Yeah the character. And it was brilliant, and I felt it in like how I everything. Like it just faded away. Like, all right, new new aid for Ethan Slater. What what's next? What do you think would be next for Ethan? What do you think?

[1:10:14] Grace Aki: Well, he's currently in a show in Chicago right now. Um, he's he's in a play with Sean Hayes. Um, so I'm like, okay, play. Um, I want this to be the next thing, but um he can I don't know. Uh he's such a comedian. I'll say this he's such a comedian that like he has such a close tie to uh Buster Keaton. And I think that if there's an adaptation of something of his work, that would be an incredible vehicle for him. Revive Chaplin with him. I don't give a sh like and you know, he's just he's so good. Um I I wanna see him uh shine in in something where you get to see all of his tricks. Um and and we saw a lot of them in SpongeBob, but I think that there's more, there's more to go. And also some introspection. Like he's he's a brilliant actor. That's what we got to see in this show. So um, yeah, people, especially critics, they like fell in love with it. And I was like, Yeah, sorry, did you sleep on him five years ago?

[1:11:09] Jess: I I will say he's incredible in SpongeBob. Like that is like who did he lose to? Uh, I don't even remember who won the Tony that year. Was that the band's visit year?

[1:11:20] Grace Aki: No, was that Tootsie year?

[1:11:22] Jess: Uh we need to find out.

[1:11:24] Grace Aki: Yes.

[1:11:25] Jess: Wow. Oh, okay. Let me see what Ethan. It was 2018.

[1:11:29] Grace Aki: Oh god. Was it Santino?

[1:11:32] Jess: Oh, I think you're right then.

[1:11:34] Grace Aki: Which, yeah, he deserves it more than him. Sorry.

[1:11:36] Jess: We can't we don't even need to speak on the Tootsie of it all.

[1:11:41] Grace Aki: Yeah, yeah.

[1:11:42] Jess: But you know who was nominated for Tootsie, who we do love? Lily Cooper, sister of Eddie Cooper, who played the proprietor in this so very well, and that's how I'll end that.

[1:11:50] Grace Aki: No, it was Tony Shaloub.

[1:11:52] Jess: Oh, that's why I was tight. Yeah.

[1:11:53] Grace Aki: Okay, it was Tony Shalou. We love Tony.

[1:11:55] Jess: Yeah, Tony's good. I like Tony. But um, no, for sure. I mean, uh, Ethan's performance in that um really really shit. I hate to it should have gotten its own special Tony, because I've never seen an actor become a sponge on stage. Um, so it should have gotten like a John Cameron Mitchell style special Tony.

[1:12:13] Grace Aki: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Tony for best sponge.

[1:12:16] Jess: Um, the scene's great. Um, but now we gotta go to something just broke, which is the most heartbreaking number. Um, one of the sometimes most chilling songs that finally gives you a point of view that isn't um an attempted murderer. You know what's weird? That of all the songs, I expected Unworthy of Your Love to get the most requests for like an early first listen. Um I I just because it's it's a sweet love song, you know what I mean? Even though it's no not, but it is. Um, this is the one that got the most interest in the last couple of days leading up to the cast of people requesting that to be the release.

[1:12:56] Grace Aki: And I was so curious as to why that is, but I think exactly it's exactly why you said um it's because it's it's chilling, but it's also like it's special because it's been in the past like you know, 20, 30 years uh of this show's iteration that it's been a part of it, and it kind of like you said earlier, ties it all together. Without it, the show's incomplete, and I'm shocked that the show existed at any point without it.

[1:13:14] Jess: Like right.

[1:13:20] Grace Aki: That is appalling to me. But that should also tell us that like art is constantly evolving, even when something is so like can you imagine if there was a song that Sondheim had written for like Into the Woods in the past like 10 years, and then it was like interjected in this like Christian Borle um Sarah Borrellas Encore show, and then we were like, wait, that perfectly captures it. Wow. And it's like, yeah, like artists are always doing this. We're always like, you know, creating and evolving. And I think that's what um that's what Sondheim got to do here is say, like, I've got something else to say. I have something else to say that's perfect for this, and it is.

[1:13:58] Jess: Yeah.

[1:13:58] Grace Aki: And I also wanted to state, and I meant to say this earlier. Sondheim in his hat books called Assassins his most perfect musical in a way that it is executed in all the ways he wanted and doesn't want to change very much about it. So this being the one he gets the seal of approval to the adaptation that he really wanted a new cast album in stone here. Yeah, really, really does mean a lot more here. And then we got everybody's got the right again.

[1:14:20] Jess: And yeah.

[1:14:26] Grace Aki: Scale of one to ten. How terrifying is it when they turn the guns on the audience?

[1:14:31] Jess: Um, well, okay. Did you because you you did not get to see this?

[1:14:36] Grace Aki: I didn't.

[1:14:36] Jess: Okay. Can I tell you a spoiler?

[1:14:39] Grace Aki: Yeah, I don't care. I don't think spoilers ruin anything.

[1:14:41] Jess: Cool. Um, as we know, the show was supposed to go up in 2020.

[1:14:47] Grace Aki: Yes.

[1:14:47] Jess: Um the Classic Stage Company. Um, they were in rehearsals. Um, we saw like, you know, the clips of them, you know, going through the book and all that stuff. Pandemic happened, I'm not sure if you're familiar. And um things things happened in that time. Uh like the world something broke again. For real, and coming back into the sh I you know, they had to come back into rehearsal, they had to, you know, they have remounted the show essentially that they had already kind of put together, but with new eyes and and souls, probably. Um, you know, because we there's a lot we all experienced. So um, anyways, all that to be said, uh the very end of this show, everyone's singing and and a lot of people felt like they were beating people over the head with it.

Some people felt that way I did not feel that way I can understand some people's opinions they projected the January 6th insurrection um as the finale which was a very very pointed choice um I appreciated that choice because I wanted people to understand the the reality of the piece and not contextualize it in like these characters no these are real people those people are still alive those people are being created those people are being groomed today and I it it is it is a little you know people have said like too soon or come on you know whatever and I'm like no this is exactly what this show was always saying so I appreciated it um even though it was very upsetting because again those are real people getting hurt getting you know trampled and getting killed um so yeah I just um it was it was a bold choice so I don't I don't right uh you know a hundred percent remember that moment that you're speaking of so much as I do remember that imagery.

[1:15:29] Jess: Yeah no that makes sense yeah so there you go what a choice my god that's incredible but it was there's this presidential seal at the top of the of the setting of the show um that uh for this production at Classic Stage Company um and they projected it onto that for the final moments um and then and then of course like afterwards the cast kind of like you know bows in silence and it was just uh jaw dropping.

[1:15:29] Grace Aki: I can't imagine yeah it was crazy that's incredible wow thank you thank you for all this insight Grace, thank you for joining me for this. I hope you had fun.

[1:17:02] Grace Aki: I hope you enjoyed this video. I always had fun. I love talking to you. I'm so appreciative that you were willing to have me on and to get to talk about this this really, really great piece. And um, we both care so deeply for musical theater and the preservation of Sondheim that um getting to be a part of this and also like getting to include you in this conversation means a lot to me. So um thank you, thank you so much. And I hope that people are excited about the album as we are, and um, whatever. I will say on my Discord for patrons, that's all they're talking about. They're just talking about they're like they I think they're having a group listen to it as we speak where they're just going I think that's literally what's happening, where they're just listening to the album together and talking to each other.

[1:17:42] Jess: It's pretty pretty great.

[1:17:44] Grace Aki: That makes me really happy. And again, it's like such I'm such a tiny tiny cog in this wheel, but it has been incredible to watch the work that goes into preserving this type of thing. And um watching the care like Matt Stein's producing of this album is so incredible to me. Like every person that has worked on this in that capacity of like mixing, engineering, being you know, like Chris uh Katrina on flute, like there's just every single part of this is important. And so I am glad that we are all getting to enjoy it and that people are hyping it up.

[1:18:20] Jess: Hell yeah. Um, but you know what else we should hype up? You, Grace. In case people don't know where peace people don't know where you are, you know, anyway.

[1:18:30] Grace Aki: Well, I famously don't want everyone to know where I am. Um drop a pin, I'll send it to everyone. Drop the pin.

[1:18:38] Jess: Um first of all, I really really appreciate that. You've been sipping what? What beverage have you been sipping?

[1:18:44] Grace Aki: Um just some caffeinated drink. Just some caffeinated drink, um, and an adorable Tell Me on a Sunday mug, which um is the podcast that I originated. I've got more episodes coming out because it's been stalled for a bit. We've been working on some things, as you can see. Um, but uh yeah, that's my storytelling podcast. And you can actually, I think it's episode three. Um, you can listen to my episode with Ethan Slater, uh, where we talk about how excited we are for Assassins in 2020. Um so it's pretty it's pretty upsetting. Uh but yeah, so you can you can listen to me there. Um you all I I finally actually need to talk about this. Um on the show, you uh talked about my solo show uh tell uh tell me on a Sunday uh to kill to wow to free about to free a mocking bird.

I will know my own show. Um and it means so much to me. I am working very hard to to get that um moving along because I I really appreciate being able to tell my stories and I'm finding other ways to tell my stories. Um, because I think that we all have stories, and if we can encourage each other to um share more, I think bad things will happen less often um because we won't feel as afraid and we won't we won't feel so invisible, um, which I've you know felt for a very long time. So that's that's that on that. Uh but you can always listen to me if you love Broadway news. You can listen to me on uh Broadway Radio Weekly Um with my co-host Matt Timonini and um Ashley Steves. It's it's a fantastic show where we recap all the news going on so you don't have to like scroll through articles all the time.

You can literally just plug in for 20 minutes a day and um get all of the updates there. But um, and then you can follow my art. I've got art, I've got too much. This is why I don't like to talk about me because I feel like I sound like a psycho infomercial that and it makes no sense.

[1:20:31] Jess: You can just follow me.

[1:20:33] Grace Aki: I have literally like fuck hired you, bought your art uh unrelated. Like it is like almost a badge of honor that the people I surround myself have Grace Aki's hanging in their like house. It means the world. I know I say this, it sounds so silly. It actually means the world to me when I'll see like someone post like a selfie in their apartment or like a TikTok of them talking about their dog, but I can see like a painting I did of that dog in the corner. Like I see it all the time um now because I'm I'm so fortunate that so many people have invested in and cared like you in my art that now I'm gonna get to have a gallery showing in Brooklyn um coming up, which I'm really really thrilled and honored by.

So um thank you. Every time you can support an artist, this is just a general announcement. Um shout that out. It costs you zero dollars. Like, even if you don't have the money to buy a piece, that that transaction of like putting something out in social media being like, I liked this actually does wonders for another person. So um thank you always for investing in that. I hope that you feel reciprocal love because um I'm I'm so honored uh to know you and I'm I'm so excited that we get to do this again. And you know, this all started with uh me being on the Waitress episode, which I've just learned is a very popular episode for you.

[1:21:47] Jess: Yes, it is.

[1:21:47] Grace Aki: Um one of the um one of the few things that I've learned from doing this podcast, guest episodes don't tend to do as well as episodes with just me and yeah, because you guys are the you guys are the bread and butter. You guys are the home team. I mean, it makes sense. With the exception of Grace Aki episodes, you're the only one that has penetrated the top ten.

[1:22:10] Jess: I love penetration.

[1:22:10] Grace Aki: Um on that note, if you can listen to our Spring Awakening episode, it's also great. That one is good. That one's very horny.

[1:22:16] Jess: That episode is we're never not seenly horny.

[1:22:19] Grace Aki: We're never not.

[1:22:20] Jess: Um, if you don't mind me getting real and um um I can cut this if you're uncomfortable with it. You do also have, I think, a GoFundMe up there um to help you with legal fees, unless that is gone now.

[1:22:33] Grace Aki: No, it it is up. I will say I did not feel because you know, uh you can keep this because it's it's it's just honest. Um my my friends started that knowing um a lot of the things that I am still currently going through. Yes. Um and of course, like you can you can read all about that on there. Um but so it wasn't started by me because that's it comes from a place of of shame for needing help. Um famously us women um feel shame about uh literally everything. Yeah, so including like body hair, like there's just nothing that we don't have shame about. Um it's funny because half of my show is about pride. Uh and then I talk about the fact that it's basically all based in shame. But um, yeah, it that does exist.

Um, so I I appreciate that you um have highlighted it and talked about it um because I think it also speaks to like what is happening in the world of us learning about like narcissistic abuse and like our judicial system and um the lack of care to uh domestic violence victims. Um so on that note, I guess that's all I should say, but um, yeah, there there is one that is up about me that um I've been so very fortunate to have the care and love of my friends for.

[1:23:43] Jess: And if you are unable to purchase art in that way and you wanna donate to Grace, who by all means will never say it herself, but is going through a fucking lot for no good reason. Um please donate whatever you can there. That would mean the world to me personally.

[1:24:05] Grace Aki: That's that's incredibly kind. Thank you.

[1:24:07] Jess: All right, Grace. Anything else you want to say before we wrap this on up?

[1:24:10] Grace Aki: Um, if you want to aggressively annoy me on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, whatever that is, you can follow me at It's Grace Aki. Um, I'm so uh appreciative of everyone's involvement of all the things. Because if you like this episode and you like Assassins, like tag Broadway Records, tag me. Like tag everybody, like tell everyone that you love it. Um if you don't like it, like keep that to yourself.

[1:24:29] Jess: Yeah, like keep it to your No, I'm just kidding.

[1:24:31] Grace Aki: Um don't yuck anyone else's yums. That's right. No, but but truly, like everything's up for criticism, especially art. And so um I'm I'm always curious to hear. I love I love the honesty and the pulse of of our community and our theater community, especially, especially around something so perfect, like and incredible, like Sondheim's work. Um, so I think that yeah, that's part of it. But yeah, follow me everywhere. Please, please, please. I'm I'm always happy to get to know. I'm so excited the fact that I've learned so many people that are a part of your circle through social media. Like I have so many Twitter mutuals now that like if I saw them in person, I probably would not recognize them.

Um but I if they told me what their handle was, I would go, oh my gosh, you ate cheese yesterday. You had a grilled cheese yesterday, and it looked so good. I literally said to a woman out loud, and I think you saw this, um, there was a woman who came up to me who had bought my art before, which was so cool. Um, and she was like, Hi, my name's Sylvie. And I was like, Oh, nice to meet you. And she was like, um, I'm at blank blank blank. And I went, Oh my god, happy birthday, Icarus. Your cat turned 10 yesterday. I said that out loud in a public space. So everything sticks. Don't think that I'm not watching you. Um, I I I adore everybody. So thank you. I also you didn't highlight this as much. She got a great TikTok.

[1:25:46] Jess: Oh god.

[1:25:46] Grace Aki: It's just um it's what's left over from my other platforms in my brain that I'm like, I'm not bold enough to put that anywhere else. So I'll just put on a video platform of millions of people.

[1:25:57] Jess: Yeah, yeah.

[1:25:58] Grace Aki: Um sometimes um they'll pop up on my FYP out of nowhere, and I'm just looking what well no, it'll be like my girlfriend, and you're just like, I can't believe how my boobs look in this top. And I'm like And I they're usually her going to see Winnie the Pooh, I promise.

[1:26:14] Jess: Oh my gosh, it's usually me going to see Winnie the Pooh.

[1:26:16] Grace Aki: No, it's usually me like doing something fun in theater, and then sometimes I something just broke, and I'm just like, well, I feel strange, and um, I'm sure other people do too. And I got a lot of messages that were like, yeah, when you turn 30, your boobs get weird. And I'm like, yeah, what's that about?

[1:26:31] Jess: So that's another conversation for another day.

[1:26:33] Grace Aki: Wait, will they?

[1:26:34] Jess: I got about four years left.

[1:26:37] Grace Aki: Yeah, they're gonna get nice and milky.

[1:26:39] Jess: Finally, I can be a mommy milker.

[1:26:42] Grace Aki: Uh note, we'll see you next time on Musicals with Cheese. Thank you so much, Grace.

[1:26:46] Grace Aki: Thank you.