This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Jesse McAnally: Hello, I'm Jesse McAnally.

[0:02] Andrew DeWolf: And I'm Andrew DeWolf. And welcome to Musicals with Cheese, a podcast where I try to get Andrew to like musical theater.

[0:13] Jesse McAnally: And Andrew!

[0:16] Andrew DeWolf: Mm-hmm?

[0:17] Jesse McAnally: I hear down the street, they are reviving Musicals with Cheese, but this time, gay.

[0:26] Andrew DeWolf: That's fucking epic. I can't fucking wait. Can you imagine Musicals with Cheese, but gay?

[0:33] Jesse McAnally: Man, wouldn't that be so cool? We'd dress a lot better, I tell you what.

[0:38] Andrew DeWolf: I definitely would dress a lot better. I think I would have a much more masculine look to me.

[0:44] Jesse McAnally: And I think I'd have a much more androgynous look to me.

[0:48] Andrew DeWolf: I feel like we might already be there, man.

[0:50] Jesse McAnally: Damn, this is Musicals with Cheese, but gay.

[0:53] Andrew DeWolf: Welcome to Musicals with Cheese, but gay. The Jellicle Ball edition.

[0:59] Jesse McAnally: I don't know what I could do to be gayer than what we currently are, which is white men on a musical theater podcast.

[1:06] Andrew DeWolf: What do we need to do for you people?

[1:07] Jesse McAnally: Suck each other's dicks, maybe.

[1:10] Andrew DeWolf: God damn, you want us to do that on camera? You want to see that? No, you don't.

[1:13] Jesse McAnally: Don't fucking, don't fucking lie. Don't fucking lie.

[1:17] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, if you want to see it, maybe.

[1:23] Jesse McAnally: What a start.

[1:24] Andrew DeWolf: Because Jellicles do what Jellicles can. Jellicle cats and Jellicles cats.

[1:30] Jesse McAnally: This week, we are talking about the most recent revival of Andrew Lloyd Webber's Cats, Cats Jellicle Ball.

[2:17] Andrew DeWolf: Judges, your scores.

[2:22] Jesse McAnally: So Cats Jellicle Ball is a musical with music by Andrew Lloyd Webber and lyrics by T.S. Eliot, Trevor Nunn, and Richard Stilgo based on Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats by T.S. Eliot.

[2:34] Jesse McAnally: Cats the Jellicle Ball made its off-Broadway debut at the Paramian Performing Arts Center in June 2024 and was twice extended, closing in September 2024.

[2:48] Jesse McAnally: The show is a radical re-imagining of the musical, taking inspiration from ballroom culture.

[2:54] Andrew DeWolf: Andrew, do you know what ballroom culture is?

[2:57] Jesse McAnally: Oh god, I think I understand it a little bit now, but no.

[3:03] Andrew DeWolf: It's like runway, but you do drag queen stuff, I think?

[3:10] Jesse McAnally: Yes, and it's basically an underground LGBT subculture.

[3:14] Jesse McAnally: It was made in the 80s and featured a lot of Black and Latino communities.

[3:21] Jesse McAnally: It really was big in New York and inspired a lot of things, including things like drag race.

[3:27] Jesse McAnally: It is an important cultural landmark in LGBT culture. Ball culture is literally what it's called. If you want to know more about it, there's a show called Pose, but every time they have one, there are theme nights. And so the premise for this is that it is cat-themed ballroom.

[3:46] Andrew DeWolf: Gotcha.

[3:47] Jesse McAnally: And there's a winner and everyone performs and gets judged, which I think works for what is now a genre of musical theater, blank but cats, cats but blank, which fits like Six and Ride the Cyclone and all that. This production subsequently opened on Broadway at the Broadhurst Theater on April 7th, 2026. With much of the off-Broadway cast reprising their roles, the show announced that it would be closing on August 8th, 2025, after alleged poor ticket sales and losing the Tony for Best Revival to Ragtime, which is a bummer.

[4:24] Jesse McAnally: The plot of Cats the Jellicle Ball is Cats the Jellicle Ball ascends to Broadway in a kaleidoscope of glittering spectacle, iconic music, and electrifying ballroom choreography.

[4:36] Andrew DeWolf: Now, we have our history with Cats. I got to say, unlike you, this is probably my first time watching an adaptation of Cats that was not the Cats movies since the movies come out.

[4:47] Jesse McAnally: That's true. I've seen an actual stage production of Cats since the movie.

[4:52] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Did you pay for that? Did you get in free?

[4:55] Jesse McAnally: We got tickets for Christmas.

[4:59] Andrew DeWolf: Was that something you asked for? Or was it just like, you have a theater podcast. Cats!

[5:05] Jesse McAnally: It was actually a gift for my girlfriend. We just got two tickets, so I got to go as well.

[5:12] Andrew DeWolf: And is it different seeing it live opposed to just, you know, recordings, bootlegs, and the movie?

[5:17] Jesse McAnally: It's better live, I think, than like the movie. I think, honestly, I think the recording of that show, I don't know if that's the bootleg or the recording, but I think-

[5:30] Andrew DeWolf: Like the pro shot.

[5:31] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, I think that's the best way to watch it.

[5:34] Andrew DeWolf: You had a blast. There is an audio recording on Patreon where we get to hear Andrew's first reaction to Cats as it happens.

[5:39] Jesse McAnally: It's true. Cats is, I think, objectively just kind of a bad show, but also it's kind of fun.

[5:50] Andrew DeWolf: It's kind of fun.

[5:51] Jesse McAnally: I gotta say, I have a lot more respect for Cats post Jellicle Ball and truly Cats the Musical post the movie. Because before the movie, the musical Cats was a joke and not particularly respected. But I guess we didn't realize how bad it could be.

[6:10] Andrew DeWolf: So, you're saying that because they made an even worse version of it, now you respect the other version?

[6:15] Jesse McAnally: A little bit. There is stagecraft and set design and all that stuff in there, where that movie just is not thinking about the internal logic at all.

[6:26] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I really, that original, maybe it may not be the original production, but the production where they did the pro shot, the set design of that is so good. It's like the best part.

[6:40] Jesse McAnally: The entire rest of the show drags it down, but that initial, it's cool that there, it's like a fucking Honey, I Shrunk the Kids set. It's fun. It's cool.

[6:55] Andrew DeWolf: It is cool. It's cool.

[6:55] Jesse McAnally: Now, you say that, but it sounds like you're almost getting defensive about what Cats the Jellicle Ball is in comparison.

[7:06] Andrew DeWolf: Okay, Cats the Jellicle Ball does eliminate that aspect of the show entirely, which I don't love, if I'm honest. The set here is just a runway. I'm not wrong, right? That's it.

[7:23] Jesse McAnally: They have one thing at the end that they bring in, but that's it.

[7:26] Andrew DeWolf: And the thing that they bring in is literally a staircase.

[7:29] Jesse McAnally: Your favorite, you love staircases on Broadway.

[7:32] Andrew DeWolf: I do like staircases, but it does feel like a downgrade a little bit, to me. It's like, okay, if you like the subculture, and you like the drag performance and stuff, I think there's some fun stuff in here for you. Although, I think part of me is thinking, is it authentic?

[7:51] Jesse McAnally: Yes.

[7:51] Andrew DeWolf: Because they're doing, they're just doing Cats. They're just doing Cats though, you know?

[7:55] Jesse McAnally: What do you mean you're just doing Cats?

[7:57] Andrew DeWolf: There's no changes to Cats, like the music, really.

[8:01] Jesse McAnally: Or the lyrics. Honestly, you bring up a point that I wanted to actually talk about, is how the music itself is remarkably unchanged from Andrew Lloyd Webber's musical.

[8:14] Andrew DeWolf: You can still hear that 1980s synth.

[8:18] Jesse McAnally: Blam, blam, blam, blam, blam, blam, blam.

[8:20] Andrew DeWolf: Like, are you telling me there's no other instrument that can perform that?

[8:24] Jesse McAnally: The thing is, I think he just has such a chokehold. He doesn't really give a shit about the actual content on screen or stage or whatever. He just wants the music done right. In a way, I kind of respect that purist nature.

[8:40] Andrew DeWolf: But on the other hand, it just leaves a very kind of, I don't want to say mix-mashed, but very confused feeling at some times.

[8:48] Jesse McAnally: I think I would have respected this show a lot more if we got a different score.

[8:54] Andrew DeWolf: I want club music.

[8:57] Jesse McAnally: Maybe that's not right, but I won't pretend I am part of the fucking ball culture. I am not at all.

[9:06] Andrew DeWolf: But I would think that they probably do more like Boots and Cats kind of fucking sounds.

[9:14] Jesse McAnally: They got a little bit more of that club sound and not this 1980s music theater sound.

[9:21] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I get that.

[9:24] Jesse McAnally: And that's really down to orchestration more than it is to actual music.

[9:28] Andrew DeWolf: Because I think you can take the Cats music and reinterpret the orchestrations like the Oklahoma revival.

[9:35] Jesse McAnally: Exactly. That's what I'm saying.

[9:36] Jesse McAnally: I think if they had done something like that and made it mesh better, because as it is now, it just feels like I'm watching basically a bunch of people that are in the ball culture just perform Cats, like perform normal Cats.

[9:54] Andrew DeWolf: I will say, but there are things that are like crowd pleasers. The thing I was most surprised by is they canonize the relationship between Mr. Mistoffelees and Rum Tum Tugger.

[10:10] Jesse McAnally: They kiss at the end of Magical Mr. Mistoffelees, which has been a long rumored ship in the Cats community.

[10:17] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, which is fine. I mean, that's expected.

[10:20] Jesse McAnally: This whole thing feels a bit like a Cats fan fiction in a way.

[10:26] Andrew DeWolf: So that's fine. I get that.

[10:28] Jesse McAnally: I just don't know. I don't know if it does enough new outside of just the costumes.

[10:35] Andrew DeWolf: I disagree. I think the dancing specifically is really impressive and new.

[10:39] Jesse McAnally: Okay.

[10:40] Andrew DeWolf: No, you're right. I might not be giving enough credit to some of the performance stuff, but I guess I just wanted more.

[10:45] Jesse McAnally: I wanted it to divide more.

[10:47] Andrew DeWolf: And the thing that I think we're not getting by watching a bootleg is the energy from the audience reacting to the performers, which I can imagine would be contagious in a room.

[10:59] Jesse McAnally: You know what? I think what I like about this is it's a leaning in to the fact that Cats is kind of like a midnight theater type thing, you know, where it's like it's cult.

[11:13] Andrew DeWolf: It's fucking Cats.

[11:14] Jesse McAnally: Everyone knows it's dumb, but people still enjoy it, right?

[11:18] Andrew DeWolf: Yes, they do.

[11:18] Jesse McAnally: No one is out there like, oh man, fucking Rocky Horror Picture Show is the greatest fucking movie of all time.

[11:27] Andrew DeWolf: But it's fun and you watch it with people and it's got an energy to it.

[11:32] Jesse McAnally: And I think this definitely is one of those shows where being there, if you're part of that culture or you want to feel like you're part of that culture, it'd be something, you know?

[11:42] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I really like like the energy that like, I can't imagine any two shows are exactly the same. You know what I mean?

[11:53] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[11:54] Andrew DeWolf: Like, and that is like the magic of theater, if you ask me.

[11:58] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[11:59] Andrew DeWolf: How much for tickets to this?

[12:00] Jesse McAnally: I think way too expensive, which I want to go into.

[12:03] Andrew DeWolf: I think they are like $200 a seat, like even for.

[12:06] Jesse McAnally: Oh, fuck.

[12:08] Andrew DeWolf: The nosebleeds.

[12:09] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, see, that's that's where you get in, like with a show like this, where it's clear that this is meant to be like a fun kind of like party vibe.

[12:14] Andrew DeWolf: And then you charge 200 fucking bucks and like, who's getting in there?

[12:21] Jesse McAnally: And now I'm going to add this. Remember, this started off Broadway with significantly cheaper seats that kept selling out.

[12:29] Andrew DeWolf: See, and that's the thing. And you said it didn't do as well on Broadway, right?

[12:33] Jesse McAnally: Yes.

[12:34] Andrew DeWolf: That's it. Like, it's it's not a show that's designed to be like a fucking wealthy people buying $200 seats and then chilling in the audience and in their glasses or whatever.

[12:47] Jesse McAnally: Oh, boy, a minstrel.

[12:49] Andrew DeWolf: Fuck.

[12:51] Jesse McAnally: But like, it's supposed to be like a party. It's supposed to be like people from the fucking ball culture are like, yeah, we're going to see the cat's ball. It's going to be sick.

[13:01] Andrew DeWolf: And it does feel that energy.

[13:04] Jesse McAnally: Like it is. I think I'd much rather go see this than the original production of Cats any day.

[13:10] Andrew DeWolf: But I think you're going to disagree with that.

[13:13] Jesse McAnally: I think I might just because I like this stage.

[13:17] Andrew DeWolf: I like the stage.

[13:18] Jesse McAnally: I love Andrew Lloyd Webber's original musical Cats.

[13:20] Andrew DeWolf: You don't want any changes.

[13:21] Jesse McAnally: I really don't.

[13:24] Andrew DeWolf: I think I think if you were going to tier list like the versions of this for me, I think I like that original stage and all that.

[13:32] Andrew DeWolf: But I'd put this very close behind, like, really, it's got its own thing going on, which is interesting.

[13:39] Jess McAnally: Then you put the movie at the fucking bottom of the depths of hell.

[13:42] Andrew DeWolf: Well, the thing is, in the parabola, it goes to the bottom, but it also kind of loops up a little bit.

[13:49] Jess McAnally: It does, because it's funny. It's funny to watch.

[13:52] Andrew DeWolf: I have so much fun watching that fucking movie.

[13:56] Jess McAnally: I just wish that they would make the butthole cut.

[13:58] Andrew DeWolf: I know it's not real. I know the butthole cut doesn't actually exist, but...

[14:02] Jess McAnally: Can we just... Can someone just make it? Like, can we just get somebody to make the butthole cut?

[14:08] Andrew DeWolf: Can you describe to me what you think the plot, if anything, to The Jellicle Ball is?

[14:14] Jess McAnally: Okay, so you know how in Cats, it's they introduce a bunch of cats that are competing to be sent to the Heaviside Lair?

[14:21] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[14:22] Jess McAnally: Okay, so it's that, but instead of them actually being cats, they are instead people...

[14:30] Andrew DeWolf: Are they drag queens? I'm sorry, I want to use proper terminology here, but I don't know the words to use.

[14:33] Jess McAnally: Drag culture, I would just kind of say.

[14:35] Andrew DeWolf: Because not all of them are drag queens, but definitely all of them are kind of inspired by drag culture.

[14:39] Jess McAnally: We have a bunch of people in the drag culture competing to be sent to the Heaviside Lair.

[14:46] Andrew DeWolf: Well, they're not really even competing. They just want to win this ballroom.

[14:51] Jess McAnally: That's true. There's an actual trophy.

[14:53] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, and the thing is, unlike previous adaptations of Cats, where it's just like, Random shit happens! Macavity, Skindle, Deuteronomy.

[15:03] Jess McAnally: Here, it feels like everything is intentionally made as part of the show that these people are putting on as cats.

[15:11] Andrew DeWolf: Like, they are trying to one-up each other as far as their ballroom personas.

[15:16] Jess McAnally: Yeah.

[15:17] Andrew DeWolf: Which makes, like, the dumber parts of Cats work really, really well here.

[15:23] Jess McAnally: It still doesn't really have, like, a plot, though. Like, not really.

[15:28] Andrew DeWolf: Like, it is still just kind of like a bunch of songs where cats introduced each other.

[15:34] Jess McAnally: But they're not cats. They're people putting on cosplay as cats.

[15:38] Andrew DeWolf: I guess, see, I feel like such a hypocrite because when we talk about musicals, like, last week, we talked about Schmigadoon, and we bitched about the fact that it had no set, really, and what set was there was ass.

[15:52] Jess McAnally: Here, it also has no set, but it works positively with it, because there's enough costumes and money and other shit on display.

[15:59] Andrew DeWolf: I think it works better here because the vibe of it is supposed to be, like, this runway culture, so, like, obviously, the set being just, like, a runway works.

[16:18] Jess McAnally: That said, I still think they could have done a bit more, probably more with, like, lighting, things of that nature, but I don't know. It's fine. I'm nitpicking a little bit.

[16:28] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, what do you want from Cats? Like, what actively do you think this does worse than a regular production of Cats, aside from, like, the fact that you like the Honey, I Shrunk the Kids aspect of it?

[16:40] Jess McAnally: I just think Cats is all spectacle. Like, it is a show with literally nothing going on except spectacle.

[16:47] Andrew DeWolf: So, removing that kind of stagecraft does take away something from it.

[16:50] Jess McAnally: You see, this is a different kind of spectacle. I also agree that Cats is just a thing of spectacle.

[16:56] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, it is a different kind of spectacle.

[16:58] Jess McAnally: And maybe, perhaps, it's a type of spectacle I appreciate less than the stagecraft.

[17:10] Jess McAnally: We interrupt this program to bring you a special report.

[17:14] Jess McAnally: Hello, this is your good friend Jess from the future. I'm interrupting this show to tell you that we hit a little bit of a snag here when I accidentally forgot to tell our good friend Big Beak from Big Beak Entertainment that our episode recording on Moana 2 had to be rescheduled because I messed up the schedule.

[17:32] Jess McAnally: So he was ready to join us for an episode on Moana 2, and we just did not loop him in. So, we decided to just pull him in here and see what he had to say about the Jellicle Ball. And it is chaos. I thought it would be funny to leave it as is, but it would be confusing if I didn't give you that context. So, here we go. Prepare for an awkward transition.

[17:58] Andrew DeWolf: I guess Big Beak thinks we're recording tonight?

[18:00] Jess McAnally: Oh shit, I did not know that. Pause.

[18:03] Andrew DeWolf: You know what? Fuck it. Hold on.

[18:07] Jess McAnally: I haven't seen Moana 2. We can't do it.

[18:10] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, I'm not recording Moana 2.

[18:12] Jess McAnally: Are you having him come on to talk about cats? He hasn't seen cats.

[18:14] Andrew DeWolf: It doesn't matter.

[18:16] Jess McAnally: How are we going to talk about it if he hasn't seen it?

[18:18] Andrew DeWolf: Doesn't matter, Andrew!

[18:20] Jess McAnally: It does matter a little bit.

[18:23] Andrew DeWolf: Plus, we made him watch Moana 2.

[18:25] Jess McAnally: We're still covering Moana 2. We're just going to find a new date and we're going to make it work.

[18:30] Andrew DeWolf: What?

[18:32] Jess McAnally: I'm so sorry. Our schedule got fucked up and I forgot to update you.

[18:36] Andrew DeWolf: So, I apologize. This is my bad.

[18:39] Jess McAnally: You'll have to forgive him. He has explosive diarrhea right now.

[18:42] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, how dare you.

[18:44] Jess McAnally: Yeah, I live in Michigan. Who would have thought?

[18:46] Andrew DeWolf: Well, enjoy those lead pipes.

[18:48] Jess McAnally: Okay. Do you have any opinions on Cats the Jellicle Ball?

[18:52] Big Beak Entertainment: I've never seen a single cats thing in my entire life.

[18:56] Jess McAnally: Count your blessings, man.

[18:58] Big Beak Entertainment: Just say that it's great.

[19:00] Jess McAnally: Don't say it's great.

[19:02] Big Beak Entertainment: Jess is trying to get me to parrot his opinion, I guess.

[19:06] Jess McAnally: I don't even think that's my opinion.

[19:09] Big Beak Entertainment: My opinion is it's better than the musical Cats.

[19:12] Jess McAnally: I have no context.

[19:14] Big Beak Entertainment: I don't know. It's like the Angry Video Game Nerd thing again.

[19:17] Jess McAnally: Why do we keep doing this to him, Jess?

[19:20] Jess McAnally: I told you not to bring him in here.

[19:22] Big Beak Entertainment: I wanted to apologize to our friend and yours, Big Beak Entertainment.

[19:27] Jess McAnally: He wanted the voice record.

[19:30] Big Beak Entertainment: He wanted to do it publicly so I wouldn't chew him out.

[19:33] Jess McAnally: I mean, you still might.

[19:36] Big Beak Entertainment: And I welcome it, and it is earned.

[19:39] Jess McAnally: I don't think I have the energy for it.

[19:41] Big Beak Entertainment: I love you.

[19:43] Jess McAnally: You can chew yourself out if you want.

[19:45] Big Beak Entertainment: I love you very much, sir. I'm sorry about the confusion.

[19:48] Jess McAnally: Your write-up on Megalopolis is a masterpiece.

[19:53] Big Beak Entertainment: Thanks. Yeah, I wrote my thesis on Megalopolis, actually.

[19:57] Jess McAnally: Did you actually?

[19:59] Big Beak Entertainment: No, I did write it on.

[20:01] Jess McAnally: I would believe it.

[20:03] Big Beak Entertainment: It was like two years.

[20:05] Jess McAnally: I graduated before that came out.

[20:07] Big Beak Entertainment: I wrote my thesis on fascism and architecture, though.

[20:11] Jess McAnally: That's a really interesting subject.

[20:13] Big Beak Entertainment: Basically, why you shouldn't do a fascist architecture.

[20:15] Jess McAnally: What was their architecture?

[20:17] Big Beak Entertainment: Did they do Brutalism and Neoclassicism, but both of it awful?

[20:22] Jess McAnally: Wait, who? The fascists?

[20:24] Big Beak Entertainment: The fascists.

[20:27] Jess McAnally: I don't know if you want to talk about this over Cats the Jellicle Ball.

[20:31] Big Beak Entertainment: I don't give a shit.

[20:33] Big Beak Entertainment: The 1983 video game crash over the Angry Birds movie.

[20:38] Jess McAnally: You know what?

[20:40] Big Beak Entertainment: In our Moana 2 episode, feel free to talk about the video game crash.

[20:44] Big Beak Entertainment: The gist of fascist architecture is basically that fascism is constantly seeking validation because it's run by very petty individuals.

[20:52] Big Beak Entertainment: Look at the people that actually run fascism. It's usually people who have been too corrupt for the establishment party.

[21:02] Big Beak Entertainment: They got punted down and basically they got picked up by the dregs. The only job they could get was running some sort of fascist machine. It's the party of losers.

[21:14] Jess McAnally: It is.

[21:15] Big Beak Entertainment: They're constantly seeking some sort of validation through artistic mediums. That's how you get propaganda departments, basically.

[21:25] Big Beak Entertainment: It's usually pretty cheap. That's how you get Mel Brooks, the producer's level of criticism, which I think is probably the best criticism you could have of fascist design.

[21:34] Big Beak Entertainment: Springtime for Hitler is literally just what the Nazis would have produced unironically.

[21:41] Jess McAnally: Now they would do it with AI.

[21:43] Big Beak Entertainment: We Are Charlie Kirk is basically a parody of Springtime for Hitler.

[21:51] Jess McAnally: If that was even possible.

[21:53] Big Beak Entertainment: We Are Charlie Kirk is like real fascist music. There's this real European sensibility of buildings are what last.

[22:02] Jess McAnally: In the Romance era, there was this concept of the beautiful ruin, or the sublime ruin, basically, which is even though this ancient Roman ruin has absolutely fallen to crap, it's still a beautiful work that is a testament to their strength as an empire.

[22:22] Big Beak Entertainment: When it was really just about how they liked getting it on in bathhouses.

[22:28] Jess McAnally: That's the other thing is history loses all context under fascism. The context is just whatever the party line wants it to be. They're very postmodern in that way.

[22:38] Andrew DeWolf: Speaking of postmodern, what is your opinion on Mungojerry and Rumpleteazer?

[22:43] Big Beak Entertainment: Jesus fucking Christ, now we have to go back to cats?

[22:46] Andrew DeWolf: We were doing something here!

[22:48] Big Beak Entertainment: I'm going to hang up the fucking call.

[22:51] Andrew DeWolf: I was interested!

[22:53] Big Beak Entertainment: The gist of my write-up was basically like every architect at some point, they get a big enough ego that they think they can do urban planning. And they're always wrong.

[23:01] Andrew DeWolf: They're always wrong and it's always hugely destructive.

[23:07] Jess McAnally: Well, thank you for that. I liked that.

[23:11] Big Beak Entertainment: There's my insight for cat's jellicle ball.

[23:16] Jess McAnally: I'm so glad you joined us. This is the funniest shit.

[23:20] Big Beak Entertainment: I'm leaving all this in, by the way.

[23:22] Jess McAnally: You know, if you think about it, cat's jellicle ball really is a parody of We Are Charlie Kirk.

[23:26] Big Beak Entertainment: Which is just a parody of Springtime Trailer.

[23:30] Jess McAnally: Put that on the poster, guys!

[23:33] Big Beak Entertainment: That doesn't make any sense at all. It has no cohesion.

[23:36] Jess McAnally: But for someone who's never seen it, that's pretty insightful.

[23:40] Big Beak Entertainment: That's the beautiful thing about fascism and design. We can make it make sense.

[23:42] Jess McAnally: If you just tell people that it makes sense enough, eventually they'll just start believing you.

[23:46] Big Beak Entertainment: It's the big lie.

[23:48] Jess McAnally: Anyway, thanks. Andrew and I are usually...

[23:52] Andrew DeWolf: The Venn diagram of our opinions basically overlaps.

[23:56] Big Beak Entertainment: So if whatever he thinks about cat's jellicle ball, I probably think of it too.

[24:00] Jess McAnally: When do I get to guest on one of your videos? Have me on.

[24:03] Big Beak Entertainment: I'll do it for the DCOM video.

[24:05] Jess McAnally: That's the problem. Having you on is just like having me on.

[24:08] Big Beak Entertainment: That's probably true.

[24:10] Jess McAnally: What if you have us both on, Bigby?

[24:12] Big Beak Entertainment: It's just us arguing.

[24:14] Jess McAnally: I'll send you the wrong day, Jess.

[24:19] Big Beak Entertainment: Thank you very much.

[24:20] Jess McAnally: I just want you to know, I don't do the scheduling.

[24:25] Big Beak Entertainment: Yeah, I know. I don't even blame you for the angry video game nerd one.

[24:29] Jess McAnally: Bigby, I'm gonna say this from the bottom of my heart. That was my whoopsie-daisy.

[24:35] Big Beak Entertainment: Jesus fucking Christ.

[24:37] Jess McAnally: And it won't happen again until the next time it happens.

[24:40] Big Beak Entertainment: Jess fucking shitting his brain out doing the schedule.

[24:45] Jess McAnally: I'll spend the next few weeks absolutely seething about it.

[24:49] Big Beak Entertainment: And I'll come into the Moana 2 video with a really negative energy.

[24:53] Jess McAnally: Just like a really caustic...

[24:55] Big Beak Entertainment: You know what? We've had guests do that to us before.

[24:58] Jess McAnally: We have, and it's really...

[25:00] Big Beak Entertainment: I'm about to say, please don't do that.

[25:03] Jess McAnally: It's a really uncomfortable thing.

[25:05] Big Beak Entertainment: Just gonna come in fucking seething under the skin.

[25:08] Jess McAnally: You're not even gonna know anything's wrong until I snap halfway through talking about the fake Lin-Manuel Miranda song.

[25:17] Big Beak Entertainment: Well, you're gonna hear about how they were actually TikTok stars that got sued by Netflix that are now working on Disney projects.

[25:24] Jess McAnally: Yeah, I'm sure.

[25:26] Big Beak Entertainment: You're gonna show up to the episode and he's gonna tell you he actually meant for you to watch the remake.

[25:31] Jess McAnally: He didn't confirm that.

[25:33] Big Beak Entertainment: That's what I thought at first. I was like, Oh, Moana 2, why the hell are we talking about that? Surely the theatrical one that's in theaters literally right now would make sense.

[25:44] Jess McAnally: If he booked that, I would have refused to watch it. I'm sorry.

[25:47] Big Beak Entertainment: There you are.

[25:49] Jess McAnally: That looks fucking dog shit, dude.

[25:52] Big Beak Entertainment: Alright, I'll let you get back to your cat's bowl.

[25:54] Jess McAnally: I love you, Big Beak. I apologize again. Sincerely.

[25:57] Big Beak Entertainment: Remember to spay and neuter your Jellicle balls.

[26:00] Jess McAnally: And now let's go into a mid-show.

[26:03] Jess McAnally: Dun-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.

[26:06] Big Beak Entertainment: I love you, Big Beak. You're a good man.

[26:08] Jess McAnally: Alright, you too. Bye.

[26:10] Big Beak Entertainment: Bye.

[26:14] Andrew DeWolf: You fucked him over so hard, dude.

[26:16] Jess McAnally: He better not have had big plans he canceled for this.

[26:18] Andrew DeWolf: I hope not.

[26:29] Jess McAnally: Someone is smoking over there.

[26:32] Andrew DeWolf: Something we cats would never do.

[26:34] Jess McAnally: Filling their lungs with thick, dark hair.

[26:37] Andrew DeWolf: What a disgusting thing to do.

[26:39] Jess McAnally: Cats have nine lives, with eight to spare.

[26:42] Andrew DeWolf: Humans have one, with none to barter.

[26:45] Jess McAnally: Why do they smoke?

[26:46] Andrew DeWolf: Why don't they care?

[26:47] Jess McAnally: Humans are smart, but cats are smarter.

[26:50] Andrew DeWolf: Listen to cats, you men and women.

[26:52] Jess McAnally: Take care of your lungs.

[26:54] Andrew DeWolf: They're only human.

[26:56] Jess McAnally: The American Lung Association. The Christmas Seal People.

[27:04] Andrew DeWolf: I'm so glad I tried it.

[27:05] Andrew DeWolf: It's for everybody. It's for kids. It's for adults. I've seen it about nine times now and every time it's better than the last time. Cats, America's favorite family musical.

[27:36] Jesse McAnally: Hey guys! Sorry to interrupt in the middle of the show but we've got a show on you. Today's show is brought to you by the extremely kind donations by our donors over at Patreon. Andrew, tell us a little bit about Patreon.

[27:45] Andrew DeWolf: Man, Patreon is where you can go if you'd like to support us and help us create the show and also just get access to some extra content because, boy howdy do we have a bunch of content on there now. We got Jess and Liz doing their Patreon with Cheese covering High School Musical, the musical, the show, the movie, the show, the musical, the book, series, the video game, and we also have a backlog, a huge backlog, and whatever. You also can watch our shows live so you can see all of our horrific shenanigans which, good fucking lord, this episode is like a fucking train wreck and there's sadly no one here to see it.

[28:26] Jesse McAnally: What are you talking about? They will see it. It'll be there. I'm gonna put in a little ring ring sound effect and Bigby's gonna come on.

[28:32] Andrew DeWolf: Jesus fucking Christ, what a mess. And we'll read your name. Hooray! Our current patrons are Roof Geese, Kiana, Casey Denning, Pants Pants, Jessica, Sofita Hurtado, Davin Willis, Caleb Bailey, BT Fiberty Jigot, JRL Studios, Carl Baldasso, Ari Ardy, Goldplate Akiki Mora, Puffyboy, Mara, Rora Marasso, Eliza Erdman, Maddie Wargill, The Omega Geek, Sofina Ali, Villainous Miss, Sammy the Adequate, Mt. Jacobson, Toriana Frazier, Joe, RJ Noriega, Kiji, Maria Nostaggio, Chris Marcotte, Chi Tea Cup, Thespian, Nothing is Certain Except Beth and Taxes, Janae C, Musical Hell, Russ Walker, Jon Van Alls, Brent Black, Eloise Fitzgerald, Monica Thoreau, Evan Cassidy, uh, Ewan Cassidy, pardon me, Evan, where am I getting Evan from?

That's awful. We've never had, we've been reading his name for 52 years. I'm so sorry, Ewan McGregor, I did not mean it. Um, and Leighton A. I feel like there was one more last episode, but they're gone. We might have, I might, I don't know if you know, it's not a well-oiled machine over here. It's one guy doing his best. It's one guy with explosive diarrhea doing the best he can. I'm in Michigan, what else could I have? Oh, boy. Um, let's get back to the show.

[30:11] Jesse McAnally: Critics call Cats Don't Dance perfect family entertainment. You'll love the toe-tapping tunes. First-class entertainment for children that adults will enjoy too. The precious, funniest animated features since Aladdin. See you in the movies. Cats Don't Dance. Plus, a new cartoon from Chuck Jones. Pull a surprise only with Cats Don't Dance. Both rated G. Starts Wednesday, March 26th at a theater near you. On sale now. You can join the wildest and wackiest characters ever. Walt Disney's The Aristocats. Meet Duchess and her three kittens. I'm a lady. You're not a lady. You're nothing but a sister. O'Malley. Lay some skin on me, scat cat. And scat cat. Blow it, Smurf. With his swinging jazz band. You can come along for all the fun and adventure of this great Disney classic. This is outrageous. The Aristocats. On sale now. Rated G.

[31:18] Jesse McAnally: It's time for everyone's favorite section of the show, where we get real-life New York Times reviews. And we have to compare our opinions to those of the real critics, the theater critics. It's time for Previews. It's time for Previews. Previews. Previews. Previews. It's time for Previews.

[31:38] Andrew DeWolf: All right. We got a review from the New York Times. Okay. And it is glowing. Let's do it. Cats the Jellicle Ball Review, fanciful and fabulous. For their tenth life, the cats strut and duckwalk in a reappraisal of Andrew Lloyd Webber's 1981 musical, which has shifted into the queer ballroom scene. On a Broadway stage, dressed up to look like a shimmering night spot, a DJ with a high fade top enters with his crate of records. He sorts through the box and holds up three album sleeves. First, he brushes off Diana Ross's 1980 disco classic Diana, which contains the gay anthem I'm Coming Out. Then he pulls out Renaissance, Beyoncé's 2022 tribute to queer black club culture. Finally, with the night's aesthetic lineage established, he holds up a familiar black square with two lambent yellow eyes. Jellicle cats come out tonight, you think, right as the synths kick in and the audience goes to pieces.

[32:53] Jesse McAnally: Do they? I mean, I guess they do. They encourage it. This is glowing. People love the show, but it's not doing well. It is obviously, you know, I don't want to say flopping, but it's flopping. They're in their flop era, as they might say. So much that Andrew Lloyd Webber says that Broadway is at risk, and that Broadway houses are risking becoming empty sound stages.

[33:18] Andrew DeWolf: I actually really want to talk about Andrew Lloyd Webber's quote in response to this, if you don't mind.

[33:23] Jesse McAnally: Sure. He said the painful truth is that with things as they are, bringing almost any new show to Broadway makes little financial sense. The costs are immense. Creators, writers, and directors are often forced to accept minimal royalties simply to get work staged. Without action, Broadway risks rivaling Hollywood's empty sound stages, increasingly dark theaters where bold new work once lived. One of the last things the great Hal Prince said to me was that it broke his heart to see what Broadway was becoming. Hal believed it had become almost impossible for genuinely new, daring work to originate on Broadway, and I fear he was right. How can the next generation build a life in theater under those conditions?

Young creatives cannot live on goodwill alone. The situation is scarcely better for investors. Many count themselves fortunate if they recover even part of their money. Without investors willing to take the risks, and artists able to make a living, where will Broadway's next generation of shows come from? It's sad when Andrew Lloyd Webber is making the most sense out of anyone on Broadway at the moment.

[34:26] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I feel like I want to say a big part of it is just how much it fucking costs to go see a show on Broadway, like, right?

[34:34] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, but you need to charge that because how else are you supposed to make money for your investors? But on the other hand, I don't know. So it's an impossible, we've reached the point where putting on theater at all is unfeasible, because it costs too much to go, because it costs too much to put on, because what, the investors demand too much, or it costs too much to rent the theater, and just prices of everything is going up. I don't know if tariffs have anything to do with it, but I wouldn't be surprised. I have no fucking clue. I mean, what are we importing for theater, the script?

[35:21] Andrew DeWolf: Well, there is that too. Yeah, it's tough. Support your community theaters. You got to keep this shit alive, because Broadway may not do it forever. I mean, and community theaters are honestly doing it a lot better lately. I want to say that there has been like a silver lining to all of culture, all of mass media culture declining in quality, and I feel like people are embracing more local, more—

[35:37] Jesse McAnally: Ramshackle, less—

[35:44] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah. Like, people are embracing that type of stuff. My friend plays drums for a community theater locally, and I've gone to a couple of those shows, and they're always slammed. They fill every seat, and I'm up in the middle of fucking nowhere.

[36:04] Jesse McAnally: I mean, that's also the thing. One of the biggest, most effective community productions, like professional community, but community, was a production of Godspell done entirely in a pool. It was in Flint, Michigan, and it went worldwide. Someone on TikTok posted about it, and it sold out immediately, and then they extended twice, and I got to see it, and it was revitalizing that show, which, in a best-case scenario, feels like going to a pretty okay church, and made it something new.

[36:39] Andrew DeWolf: Didn't? They should have done frogs.

[36:41] Jesse McAnally: No one likes the frogs except you and me.

[36:43] Andrew DeWolf: Fuck.

[36:43] Jesse McAnally: But they could have done it. It's in a pool. I just, I want new and cool ideas, and I want new theater. I just don't know where it's gonna be. We're even talking about a fucking revival of the show, and I get it has some original ideas and things, but I mean, so much of it is just cats.

[37:02] Andrew DeWolf: It's compelling, but so much of it is also not cats.

[37:06] Jesse McAnally: But it's not an original show. Not truly.

[37:11] Andrew DeWolf: And even that isn't able to survive, though. Even one of the most popular, I know cats is like a joke in the theater community, but like, Cats was a very successful show when it was on, right?

[37:22] Jesse McAnally: Yes. And my question is, did it become too niche? Was this too wild a swing?

[37:28] Andrew DeWolf: It might have been. It may be that this doesn't appeal to the, to use the term again, the normies. Like, yeah, the tourists, you got the people coming from the Midwest, and maybe they would see cats, but maybe they won't see cats, the Jellicle Ball, you know?

[37:45] Jesse McAnally: I mean, we all know who one of the biggest fans of cats in America is.

[37:51] Andrew DeWolf: It's Donald Trump. He talks all the time. Memory plays at every one of his fucking, what is it? Racist tirade at venues.

[38:01] Jesse McAnally: They call it a political speech, Jess.

[38:04] Andrew DeWolf: Okay. But he is a big fan of cats, and you know what he wouldn't be a big fan of? Cats Jellicle Ball.

[38:10] Jesse McAnally: No, you're not wrong. I feel like that's like a thing where those fucking New York businessmen in the 80s really liked fucking cats and Les Mis and shit like that.

[38:23] Andrew DeWolf: All the European invasion shit really kind of brought the douchey white man into musical theater.

[38:30] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. I don't know why. I guess they're just more easy to understand. I'm not sure. I wish this did better because I liked it a lot. It's kind of the frustrating thing. And I know as Big Beak said earlier, whatever opinion Andrew has with him is just the circle of the Venn diagram. But I think it is more compelling and interesting than the original cats, at least as far as the culture it's inspired by. And I find that personally more interesting.

[39:00] Andrew DeWolf: I think it's an interesting take. I just don't know. What is it actually saying about the culture? I feel like they're just performing cats in the culture.

[39:10] Jesse McAnally: I disagree. I think memory is saying a lot of things about like older drag queens, what becomes of them and what happens when you're so fabulous and then, you know, you kind of get aged out the same thing. The same thing that kind of happens with Grizabella in the original, but on a more honest and authentic scene.

[39:31] Andrew DeWolf: I feel like that doesn't hit as hard because I don't think the actress was old enough.

[39:35] Jesse McAnally: Maybe, maybe not. But it worked for me. I thought like the reinterpretation was really effective for me. And I just found like the Macavity scenes and like the actual like things that were threats, quote unquote, in the original are just more effective when they're just camp, which they are just here.

[39:54] Andrew DeWolf: One could argue that if you go into cats, it is just camp anyways, but.

[39:59] Jesse McAnally: But it's played so sincerely and here everything is tongue in cheek, except memory.

[40:05] Andrew DeWolf: True.

[40:05] Jesse McAnally: Which is why memory hits so much harder for me because nothing about the Cats musical hits hard for me. Was there a favorite scene? Because I don't want to go song by song. We've done an episode on cats. Was there a scene or a song or character that you felt like, oh, that was really cool or I like that?

[40:24] Andrew DeWolf: I think I mean, memory always hits for me. Right. Like, I just think it's a it's just a I do think memory is like it is like a genuinely good song. And it does you build up to it through the.

[40:39] Jesse McAnally: If there's anything Cats does right, it is that one singular song.

[40:43] Andrew DeWolf: People that have never heard of Cats love the song Memory.

[40:47] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, with reason, and I think it does even work better in context, not necessarily because the story lends better to it or anything like that, but because you're getting teased by it the entire show, and then you finally get that release, you know?

[41:00] Andrew DeWolf: You're gooning to Memory for two hours, and then you finally get to know it.

[41:04] Jesse McAnally: Absolutely, absolutely gooning. I guess we should talk about the song that I think they changed probably the most, which is the Railway Cat.

[41:17] Andrew DeWolf: This is the one they are using for the marketing. This is the most popular one. It's the one that they are always performing, and I really like that actress that plays her.

[41:23] Jesse McAnally: I think I really like the fact that they made it bilingual. I think that was really cool, like having some of the verses in Spanish.

[41:31] Andrew DeWolf: Yes.

[41:32] Jesse McAnally: That was awesome.

[42:07] Andrew DeWolf: But you were not a big fan of the thick New York accent that MF Sophia is putting on.

[42:12] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, it just reminds me of fucking Harley Quinn, which this is a total me thing. This is just like, I hate that accent. I'm sorry, guys. If you have that accent, I'm sorry.

[42:22] Andrew DeWolf: How do you feel about it being like a subway?

[42:25] Jesse McAnally: That's cool.

[42:26] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah.

[42:27] Jesse McAnally: I think that's cool, and I think it lends to the... because obviously, this culture was born in New York, so obviously, the subway culture in New York, that's a big part of it.

[42:37] Andrew DeWolf: So that really works. I think having some of it in Spanish is really cool. I think it's a cool adaptation of it. Absolutely.

[42:46] Jesse McAnally: Yeah, and it's the one that is iconic, and the dance, specifically when she kind of does the Edna mode walk in the middle of it.

[42:53] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was good. That was good.

[42:57] Jesse McAnally: That is the sequence that convinced me like, oh no, this is something worth taking a look at, as opposed to like, cats? Cats again?

[43:07] Andrew DeWolf: There are some problems, though, and it's just normal cat stuff.

[43:11] Jesse McAnally: There's just some songs that are just so fucking boring, and it's just like, I cannot.

[43:16] Andrew DeWolf: I can't be made to care.

[43:19] Jesse McAnally: What, are you telling me you don't care about the Gumby Cat?

[43:22] Andrew DeWolf: The Gumby Cat. It's honestly a lot of the early ones. It's like Gumby Cat, Bustopher Jones. It's like, dude, I don't... you can't make me give a shit.

[43:31] Jesse McAnally: I know you're trying, and you're doing different stuff with it, and that's cool, but it's so fucking boring. And then the ending. Holy fucking shit.

[43:38] Andrew DeWolf: You don't like the addressing of cats?

[43:41] Jesse McAnally: It's such a boring song. I'm sorry. It goes for fucking ever, and I know it's worse in the movie, and maybe the movie is...

[43:49] Andrew DeWolf: It's so much worse in the movie.

[43:50] Jesse McAnally: Maybe the movie is tainting my memory of the song.

[43:54] Andrew DeWolf: Your what of the song?

[43:56] Jesse McAnally: Excuse me? But it's so fucking boring, and it's like, we have... you do memory, and it's like, yeah, let's just end the show. Let's just end the show right here.

[44:07] Andrew DeWolf: And then we gotta do the...

[44:12] Jesse McAnally: Just end the show! Just end the show!

[44:14] Andrew DeWolf: And then, of course, with cats, they say, what rule is true? Don't speak until you're spoken to. Myself, I do not hold with that.

[44:22] Jesse McAnally: I say you should address a cat. And it goes on.

[44:25] Andrew DeWolf: It just keeps fucking going, and it goes, and it goes, and it's like, oh my god, we're not doing anything, and the song is not interesting, and this... it's just, oh my fucking god, dude.

[44:35] Jesse McAnally: Andre De Shields is trying his best with that, though.

[44:37] Andrew DeWolf: He... I'm not... no faults to Andre De Shields. I think he does a good job as old dude.

[44:46] Jesse McAnally: But Jesus fucking Christ, man, you gotta... oh my god.

[44:52] Andrew DeWolf: Just do something about this song. It's so boring.

[44:54] Jesse McAnally: Remember when we were on the Wrong Cat Died podcast at BroadwayCon, and you pitched that old Deuteronomy should be euthanized?

[45:00] Andrew DeWolf: Did I say that? I didn't say that.

[45:08] Jesse McAnally: Well, the pitch is, which cat should die as opposed to, like, whoever?

[45:15] Andrew DeWolf: I'm pretty sure I just said that Grizabella should.

[45:19] Jesse McAnally: No, I think we were assigned ones.

[45:23] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, okay.

[45:24] Jesse McAnally: And you had to defend old Deuteronomy.

[45:26] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, and I guess, I mean, if you're gonna make a defense of old Deuteronomy, it's just that he's fucking old, right? I mean, what else are you gonna say?

[45:31] Jesse McAnally: Euthanize that fucking cat.

[45:34] Andrew DeWolf: I mean, let's be real. That's what happens in the show.

[45:37] Jesse McAnally: No, they're reborn. She goes up in a hot air balloon in the musical, or the movie.

[45:42] Andrew DeWolf: Up, up, up. She's not coming down from that fucking hot air balloon.

[45:48] Jesse McAnally: I mean, I would have been interested in the interpretation.

[45:53] Andrew DeWolf: Like, the only other interpretation outside of, like, this that has piqued my curiosity is that Cats takes place in a post-apocalypse where human-cat hybrids have taken over.

[46:04] Jesse McAnally: I'm leaning into that, because that is, like, a fun fan theory.

[46:07] Andrew DeWolf: And I'm like, you know what? Fuck it. Just do that.

[46:11] Jesse McAnally: Okay, I think the issue with any adaptation of Cats going forward is going to be, you can't do it yet.

[46:15] Andrew DeWolf: Because Angela Webber wants the fucking 80s synth there forever.

[46:21] Jesse McAnally: Yes. You need to wait. He won't live forever.

[46:26] Andrew DeWolf: Do adaptations of Cats after, and then we can change some of the stuff.

[46:31] Jesse McAnally: You see, I agree with you. But then we've got the Sondheim of it all. Sondheim died in 2023.

[46:41] Andrew DeWolf: Bummer. Real sucks. Don't like that that happened.

[46:44] Jesse McAnally: However, we've had a lot of Sondheim revivals since then, and all of them have been, like, the most boilerplate kind of boring Sondheim revivals that you could imagine.

[46:55] Andrew DeWolf: The Merrily revival is just the same one that played in the UK. Yeah, it did well, but it's the same one. The Sweeney Todd revival, I was not a fan of. We did an episode of it.

[47:05] Jesse McAnally: I think you were a bigger defender of it than I was.

[47:08] Andrew DeWolf: I think it was fine.

[47:10] Jesse McAnally: I think it was boilerplate.

[47:12] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I mean.

[47:13] Jesse McAnally: Okay.

[47:14] Andrew DeWolf: No, no, you're right. That will happen. That will happen. And it's going to be because.

[47:20] Jesse McAnally: Well, they're also they're trying to, like, respect him because he just, well, we're going to do it the way he wanted to do it.

[47:27] Andrew DeWolf: And same with, like, the Mama Rose musical, where Audra McDonald. The only thing that that did any different than any other production is that the leads were black.

[47:36] Jesse McAnally: Like every other production, it's basically the same.

[47:39] Andrew DeWolf: Fuck, we're never going to get a good version of Cats. You know what? There wasn't there wasn't a good version of Cats to be made, though. Let's let's be let's be real here. This is unsalvageable material.

[47:46] Jesse McAnally: I'm waiting for like, because I consider this a green flag because Andrew Lloyd Webber's musicals do not stand on their own, except for one.

[48:02] Andrew DeWolf: They need to be reinterpreted because you can't just do the old ones. They get dated so fast.

[48:07] Jesse McAnally: A few years ago, Cats and Sunset Boulevard were both revived, and they're basically identical to their 80s counterparts. And both of them did not do well on Broadway, except the only change was Andrew Lloyd Webber turned the Rum Tum Tugger into a rap because he was trying to be Hamilton.

[48:23] Andrew DeWolf: Did not work.

[48:24] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. And then he had the ridiculously, like, well-received and wild production of Sunset Boulevard, which we will do an episode on where he just let wild things happen.

[48:39] Andrew DeWolf: And as well, you were not a big fan of that Vita revival, but at least it's taken a big swing on something wild.

[48:45] Jesse McAnally: Andrew Lloyd Webber is being very free with, like, his work to be reinterpreted in strange ways.

[48:52] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, yeah. No, I just we need you need to be able to alter the score a bit, though, like you can't the Cats.

[48:59] Jesse McAnally: Cats could be done without this fucking 80s synth.

[49:05] Andrew DeWolf: I don't know. Maybe he just really likes that sound that way, way, way, way, way, way, way.

[49:11] Jesse McAnally: But like, you could play that on a different instrument. I don't know. I don't know.

[49:16] Andrew DeWolf: And this was it was just begging for more of like a disco or or a nightclub or like this, just something that fits the culture more.

[49:23] Jesse McAnally: Like, I know that Cats is part of the culture, but like, you know, you know what I mean?

[49:28] Andrew DeWolf: I do. I do. And I, I liked it a lot. I felt more compelled by it. I'm glad it exists. It did not taint anything for me. It brought something where I didn't think I could feel for this show.

[49:42] Jesse McAnally: It is the best version of Cats you're probably going to get in our lifetime.

[49:47] Andrew DeWolf: For me, I think it's just it's better in some ways and worse than others. And it kind of balances out for me. I think I'd probably put it around equal to where I'd have actual cats like normal cats, non-jellicle ball cats.

[50:07] Jesse McAnally: All right. And that brings us to what is our overall thoughts on our cheese ratings, Andrew?

[50:16] Andrew DeWolf: Um, so I have to think about that really hard. Yeah, it's kind of like a I don't know what to say. I don't like, OK, it's Cats, but different.

[50:22] Jesse McAnally: I think I think if I saw this live or I think if if you are in a position to see this live, you'll probably have a good time. I'm not going to deny that it would probably be a fun thing to watch if you're looking for like the best musical or whatever.

[50:34] Andrew DeWolf: I don't I don't think I could give it that.

[50:41] Jesse McAnally: But it has some fun. It has some standout moments. I like I like some of the stuff they did. I think memory is performed well. I think the railway cat's cool. I think it's fun seeing old Deuteronomy enter and you got Andre De Shields with his big mane. You know, that's fun.

[50:58] Andrew DeWolf: But it's it's just it's it's fucking cats. You know, you're still sitting through a bunch of cat introductions and that's the entire fucking show. So it's still that.

[51:03] Jesse McAnally: Yeah.

[51:11] Andrew DeWolf: Whatever I gave cats, I think I'm going to give this. I don't remember.

[51:17] Jesse McAnally: I mean, I can tell you what you gave cats if you want to know.

[51:23] Andrew DeWolf: Sure. What was it?

[51:27] Jesse McAnally: I mean, well, I'm pulling up and pulling it up.

[51:35] Andrew DeWolf: This list still updated?

[51:37] Jesse McAnally: Yeah. We have our keeper of the cheese, Juliet Antonio, that keeps it updated.

[51:43] Andrew DeWolf: God damn. They've been doing a great job.

[51:46] Jesse McAnally: You gave it. God damn it, Andrew. What did I give it?

[51:52] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, God. What do you think you gave it?

[51:54] Jesse McAnally: Not cheese. Something that isn't cheese.

[51:58] Andrew DeWolf: You gave it something that's cheese. It's just like you. This has got to be one of the laziest cheese ratings you've ever given.

[52:04] Jesse McAnally: Sure, sure. Is it cheddar?

[52:06] Andrew DeWolf: It's cheese made out of cat's milk.

[52:10] Jesse McAnally: No, that's gross. Hang on. That's actually disgusting.

[52:16] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, I don't think you want to give that to this.

[52:19] Jesse McAnally: No, I don't think I do. I'm just going to give it milk because I think cats cats drink milk, right? They like milk.

[52:26] Andrew DeWolf: Yeah, they do.

[52:27] Jesse McAnally: And I'm giving it fromage de chat, which is what I gave the original cats, but, you know, a fancier, better version.

[52:34] Andrew DeWolf: Fromage de chat. It feels very, very apt for the moment.

[52:40] Jesse McAnally: When you say it like that, it sounds like chat, like, you know, like chat.

[52:46] Andrew DeWolf: Do I?

[52:47] Jesse McAnally: I do know. Yeah, like shit.

[52:50] Andrew DeWolf: That's the show, everyone. We will see you next week on Musicals with Cheese. Say goodbye, Andrew.

[52:58] Andrew DeWolf: Goodbye, Andrew. Call Bigby next time.

[53:00] Jesse McAnally: Oh, you love him so much.

[53:02] Andrew DeWolf: Oh, no. Me and Bigby could do an excellent show on architecture.

[53:06] Jesse McAnally: You really could. I would listen.

[53:09] Andrew DeWolf: Well, architecture and the peanuts.

[53:12] Jesse McAnally: Architecture and the penis, baby.

[53:14] Andrew DeWolf: Hey, Charlie Brown, what type of building is this?

[53:17] Jesse McAnally: I don't know. It ain't my kite, though.

[53:22] Andrew DeWolf: The penis.

[53:26] Jesse McAnally: The Musicals with Cheese podcast is hosted by Jesse McAnally and Andrew DeWolf.

[53:31] Andrew DeWolf: Our executive producer is Jesse McAnally and our creative producer is Elizabeth Esten.

[53:36] Jesse McAnally: This show is mixed and edited by Jesse McAnally. Our theme song was composed by Andrew DeWolf and the artwork was designed by JRL Studios.

[53:43] Andrew DeWolf: Our keeper of the cheese is the one and only Juliet Antonio.

[53:47] Jesse McAnally: If you have the funds available, we would love to have you over at Patreon where you can get tons of fun perks, including full bonus episodes.

[53:52] Andrew DeWolf: Also, if you don't mind, could you leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or a comment on Spotify? Just a few extra words to let us know how we're doing.

[53:57] Jesse McAnally: And if you have any corrections, ideas, or just want to say hello, send us an email at musicaltheaterlives at gmail.com.

[54:01] Andrew DeWolf: To listen to our entire backlog of episodes, please visit bpn.fm slash cheese. Thank you so much for listening and we'll see you next week.