This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Matt Rodin: Hey, thank you for hitting play.

[0:02] Matt Rodin: My name is Matt, and welcome to The Come Up.

[0:04] Matt Rodin: I'm gonna give a short introduction to this season and this episode, but if you want to jump straight to the conversation, it starts at about one minute and thirty seconds.

[0:04] Matt Rodin: If you want to stay and listen, here you are.

[0:17] Matt Rodin: Thank you for being here. This is the first episode of the third season of this podcast, and this season is gonna be a little bit different, and that's because I'm currently on the road with the National Tour of Company, Steven Sondheim's masterful musical comedy.

[0:32] Matt Rodin: You shouldn't notice much of a difference on your end, but I'll be recording episodes and introductions remotely from all over the country.

[0:39] Matt Rodin: Technology is cool sometimes.

[0:42] Matt Rodin: It enabled me to have this heartfelt conversation with Arielle Jacobs.

[0:46] Matt Rodin: Arielle is a Filipino American actress and teacher and overall calming presence who made her Broadway debut opposite Lin-Manuel Miranda in In the Heights, which we absolutely discuss.

[0:58] Matt Rodin: We also touch on everything from her sudden Bell's palsy diagnosis, what it looks like to truly love yourself, and the incredible story of her family's journey to the United States.

[1:08] Matt Rodin: It's clear to me that Arielle is someone who takes the work so incredibly seriously because she deeply believes in what the work can do for audiences and actors and everyone behind the scenes, really.

[1:21] Matt Rodin: So without further ado, here is Arielle Jacobs.

[1:32] Arielle Jacobs: How are you holding up? How's it like are like physically emotional? Like are you how are you doing? Are you okay? Are you feeling like wiped by the thing?

[1:42] Arielle Jacobs: Um, so I definitely reserve my vocal usage outside of the show.

[1:49] Arielle Jacobs: Like I don't have a lot of social dates.

[1:51] Matt Rodin: Okay.

[1:51] Arielle Jacobs: Um, but in terms of stamina, I had to work myself up.

[1:59] Arielle Jacobs: Like the first when we first started running the previews, it was like the first week, two weeks, I was like really out of breath.

[2:09] Arielle Jacobs: Especially because when I'm not on stage, I'm sprinting.

[2:11] Matt Rodin: That's what I was gonna say. It's so physical even when you're off stage.

[2:15] Arielle Jacobs: Yeah, and the costume changes and hair changes happen so fast.

[2:20] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[2:20] Arielle Jacobs: And they're all around the theater.

[2:22] Arielle Jacobs: Cause like, you know, I'm actually running around and entering like in the balcony, and then I'm like down by, you know, it's just I'm everywhere.

[2:32] Arielle Jacobs: So it took a lot of time to build up the stamina.

[2:36] Arielle Jacobs: And then in terms of like the emotional how I am emotionally, because she goes to such a traumatic place by the end of the show.

[2:43] Arielle Jacobs: Seven times a week.

[2:44] Arielle Jacobs: Well, actually, what's funny is there's such a high low situation throughout the show.

[2:50] Arielle Jacobs: So like she starts in a very dark place, but then once she marries Ferdinand Marcos, she's like on top of the world.

[2:58] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[2:59] Arielle Jacobs: And then she's like going around traveling the world and it's like she's having a party.

[3:04] Matt Rodin: Right.

[3:05] Arielle Jacobs: And then it comes crashing down when she discovers the affair.

[3:08] Matt Rodin: Yes, it does.

[3:09] Arielle Jacobs: So she goes way down, down deep.

[3:11] Arielle Jacobs: And then it goes way back up again when she's like, okay, well, fuck him. I'm just gonna go be a leader of a country and like take over.

[3:18] Arielle Jacobs: So then it goes way, way up.

[3:19] Arielle Jacobs: And then she crashes down again when the revolution, you know, kicks them out of the Philippines.

[3:26] Arielle Jacobs: So that took a lot of getting used to as well.

[3:30] Arielle Jacobs: Because as an artist, as an actor, usually in the story, there might be one crash and burn and then you rise up again.

[3:37] Matt Rodin: Yeah, right.

[3:38] Arielle Jacobs: But in this show, there's several.

[3:41] Arielle Jacobs: So it kind of felt like a bumpy ride internally.

[3:43] Arielle Jacobs: I was like being thrown all over the place emotionally.

[3:48] Matt Rodin: Um, are you someone who like do you feel like you have an easy time or a hard time like when you're when you leave the theater, you're like, okay, I'm good?

[4:02] Matt Rodin: Or like even rehearsal, where you're like, okay, like I feel good, or was it the kind of thing where like you needed to come home and like decompress because obviously your body is going through, of course, physically, but I think emotionally as actors, like, even if we aren't feeling like it's happening to us, we're putting our body through something emotionally.

[4:19] Arielle Jacobs: Oh, for sure.

[4:20] Arielle Jacobs: Okay, yeah.

[4:21] Arielle Jacobs: Oh, for sure.

[4:22] Arielle Jacobs: And that took also the first week or so of previews, I was ending the show feeling unresolved.

[4:33] Matt Rodin: Interesting.

[4:34] Arielle Jacobs: Then but then something changed because they had a new idea and they decided about halfway through the preview process that they wanted myself and José Llana, who plays Ferdinand, and Conrad, who plays Ninoy Aquino, they wanted the three of us to be added to the final song, which is "God Draws Straight," and that is an uplifted, you know, hopeful song where the people of the Philippines regain their independence.

[5:07] Arielle Jacobs: So at first I was kind of like, oh gosh, another costume change. I don't want to be on stage again for another costume change.

[5:15] Arielle Jacobs: But I will say now that I do it every night, it ends me in a different emotional place.

[5:25] Arielle Jacobs: So I get to have this release of like what happened in the final tormented song that I sang.

[5:31] Matt Rodin: Yes.

[5:32] Arielle Jacobs: And then transition into this hopeful situation where I'm singing these lyrics that breathe new life into me.

[5:39] Matt Rodin: Yes.

[5:40] Arielle Jacobs: And I think because of that, I'm actually ending the show feeling settled now, feeling great.

[5:46] Matt Rodin: Mm-hmm.

[5:47] Matt Rodin: That's I'm so glad that that is the situation.

[5:50] Matt Rodin: Because there's nothing worse than leaving a theater feeling like, ooh, there's some emotionally unresolved things inside that I'm like not quite.

[5:58] Arielle Jacobs: You know, I obviously I had read the reviews and I didn't know the story at all, to be completely honest.

[6:06] Arielle Jacobs: And when I left, one of the things that I sort of felt was like, I actually didn't feel like it glorified this person.

[6:14] Arielle Jacobs: Like, I mean, it certainly humanizes her, right?

[6:17] Arielle Jacobs: Like I definitely feel who she is as a human being, but I didn't feel like, I don't want to say empathy, because of course I empathized with her as a human being, but I didn't feel like it made her out to be this good quote unquote person.

[6:32] Arielle Jacobs: And that's such a non—that's a word that doesn't mean anything.

[6:36] Arielle Jacobs: But I didn't feel like, oh, well, I don't know, I left a bad taste in my mouth because she wasn't a good person, but that story made her seem like I didn't feel that way at all.

[6:44] Matt Rodin: Do you know what I'm saying?

[6:45] Arielle Jacobs: Like I felt like it was nuanced.

[6:47] Matt Rodin: Exactly, exactly.

[6:49] Arielle Jacobs: I know a lot of people who, you know, were saying that it was glorifying her or were afraid to come because they didn't want to glorify a dictatorship.

[6:49] Arielle Jacobs: They are basing their opinion on hypothesis, right?

[7:06] Arielle Jacobs: They've never seen what this show is actually doing.

[7:11] Arielle Jacobs: And even the people who say, well, I've heard the soundtrack and it doesn't sound like it's criticizing them enough.

[7:18] Arielle Jacobs: And I'm like, well, but the most beautiful thing about this show is that it is a full experience, and oftentimes the visuals that you're seeing are contradictory to the words that you're hearing in the song.

[7:30] Matt Rodin: That is so well said.

[7:32] Matt Rodin: I totally agree with you.

[7:33] Matt Rodin: I totally agree.

[7:34] Arielle Jacobs: There's so much more going on than just what you hear.

[7:37] Matt Rodin: So people who are, you know, basing their opinions on the album are not actually getting the show in the way it's meant to be experienced.

[7:46] Arielle Jacobs: Yeah.

[7:46] Arielle Jacobs: Hmm.

[7:47] Arielle Jacobs: Wow.

[7:48] Arielle Jacobs: And I, yeah, I mean, you're right.

[7:50] Arielle Jacobs: The visuals, I mean, it certainly is a full experience.

[7:53] Arielle Jacobs: Like it is an—I mean, that's why personally, that's why I enjoyed it so much.

[7:57] Arielle Jacobs: It was because I like that kind of thing.

[7:59] Arielle Jacobs: I like feeling like I am a part of something for a moment in time.

[8:02] Arielle Jacobs: And certainly I feel that way when I go see anything in the theater, but obviously with something like this, you are dropped into it.

[8:08] Arielle Jacobs: Oh, yeah.

[8:09] Arielle Jacobs: I mean, the audience is like playing the role of the Filipino people over the course of 40 years.

[8:16] Arielle Jacobs: Yeah.

[8:17] Arielle Jacobs: So you have the experience of what it's like to be super excited by this new potential presidential candidate and his wife and be at the campaign rallies, be there at their wedding, be rooting for them, and then eventually feeling betrayed by them.

[8:34] Arielle Jacobs: That is the—that's what the audience is meant to experience through this show.

[8:39] Matt Rodin: Which I think you do, and or I did, and I felt like it was it was similar.

[8:49] Arielle Jacobs: I'm gonna say this and then I'm gonna contradict.

[8:52] Arielle Jacobs: It was similar to Hamilton in the sense that it was a story that I didn't know that is true.

[9:00] Arielle Jacobs: You know, or obviously there's some, I'm sure there's fictionalized moments of it, but it's a true narrative in terms of like what actually happened.

[9:06] Arielle Jacobs: This is a real thing that happened to people.

[9:08] Arielle Jacobs: And as an audience member who didn't know about any of this, who maybe was just like uneducated about it, that was something that was like so compelling to me.

[9:18] Arielle Jacobs: Was I was like, as the story was unfolding, I was like, oh my god, wait, what?

[9:22] Arielle Jacobs: Like exactly what?

[9:24] Matt Rodin: Um, so I think that betrayal piece is true, and it just, yeah, it just swept me off my feet.

[9:30] Arielle Jacobs: I was very—I was, yeah, it was great.

[9:32] Matt Rodin: I had a great time.

[9:33] Arielle Jacobs: I love that.

[9:35] Arielle Jacobs: Um, fun for you doing a new show versus dropping into something like Aladdin versus Wicked, you know, a Wicked or whatever.

[9:44] Arielle Jacobs: I mean, you certainly did Between the Lines, but this is obviously on a bigger scale than that.

[9:49] Arielle Jacobs: Um, and I know it's been around, but for you to come in and be doing something brand new, fun, exciting, scary.

[9:57] Arielle Jacobs: Oh, I love it.

[9:58] Arielle Jacobs: I love it.

[9:59] Arielle Jacobs: You do, okay, okay.

[10:01] Arielle Jacobs: It's so wonderful to be able to really find what is yours in a rehearsal process.

[10:08] Arielle Jacobs: Oh, I don't really remember the show from ten years ago.

[10:14] Arielle Jacobs: I think I saw it once at the Public, but I don't really remember too much about it except feeling, you know, completely overwhelmed by how much was going on.

[10:22] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[10:23] Arielle Jacobs: So I also there was a little bit of, you know, there's a big responsibility in this particular show.

[10:35] Arielle Jacobs: Because it's not like originating a fictional character.

[10:38] Arielle Jacobs: You're actually playing a real person who's gonna be able to do it.

[10:40] Matt Rodin: Right, right, right, right, right.

[10:42] Arielle Jacobs: Um, yeah, she's—oh, she's 94 and she's back living in the presidential palace because her son—

[10:42] Matt Rodin: Oh right, is now president of the Philippines.

[10:53] Arielle Jacobs: Yo, that shit is crazy.

[10:59] Arielle Jacobs: It's crazy.

[11:00] Matt Rodin: Whoa.

[11:00] Arielle Jacobs: Which is why this show right now is so relevant.

[11:04] Matt Rodin: Mm-hmm.

[11:06] Arielle Jacobs: It's like history can repeat itself or we can learn from the past.

[11:12] Matt Rodin: Yeah, and I'm sure again, I imagine like finding your own version of this has been fulfilling.

[11:21] Arielle Jacobs: You know what I mean?

[11:22] Arielle Jacobs: Like for sure.

[11:23] Arielle Jacobs: Yeah, right.

[11:24] Arielle Jacobs: Being in that room and building something of your own.

[11:27] Arielle Jacobs: Yeah, and you know, getting the time with the creative team to actually develop every single nuanced moment of the show.

[11:35] Arielle Jacobs: You don't get that as a replacement.

[11:37] Arielle Jacobs: When I was a replacement in In the Heights, which was my Broadway debut, I came from the tour.

[11:43] Matt Rodin: Were you—did you originate the tour or did you replace on the tour?

[11:47] Arielle Jacobs: I originated the tour.

[11:48] Arielle Jacobs: So I had that moment of building the show with them then.

[11:52] Arielle Jacobs: And actually in Aladdin, I was able to have that moment because I originated the Australian tour.

[11:58] Matt Rodin: Oh, huh.

[11:59] Arielle Jacobs: So I was playing Jasmine in Sydney before I played Jasmine on Broadway.

[12:03] Matt Rodin: Great.

[12:04] Arielle Jacobs: Yeah.

[12:06] Arielle Jacobs: So that it is wonderful when you have that time.

[12:10] Matt Rodin: Right.

[12:11] Arielle Jacobs: And there's also the cast is bonding through that experience.

[12:15] Arielle Jacobs: And so then when you actually are in the midst of running the show, you have such a deeper bond and connection with your company when you've created the show together.

[12:26] Matt Rodin: Right.

[12:26] Arielle Jacobs: Um, but obviously in something like you're saying, In the Heights, when you go in, it's different because you're just sort of dropping into their—

[12:26] Matt Rodin: You are, yeah, and it's like everyone you kind of feel like the odd man out.

[12:38] Arielle Jacobs: Like everyone always has their bits, has their history.

[12:43] Arielle Jacobs: Right.

[12:43] Arielle Jacobs: Um, it's much harder as a replacement to feel like you belong there because they all have this shared history and it's like the new kid at a school, you know.

[12:58] Matt Rodin: Right.

[12:59] Arielle Jacobs: Yes.

[13:00] Matt Rodin: In the Heights was your Broadway debut or a—

[13:04] Arielle Jacobs: Okay.

[13:04] Arielle Jacobs: You went to NYU, so clearly you were like, I want to be in New York.

[13:07] Arielle Jacobs: Um, you would think, except I left NYU and moved to LA.

[13:13] Arielle Jacobs: Because I was like, you know, I had just toured.

[13:15] Matt Rodin: No, wait, let me think about this.

[13:19] Arielle Jacobs: Yeah.

[13:20] Arielle Jacobs: I graduated here in New York, and I thought, you did finish school.

[13:27] Arielle Jacobs: I did finish school, and I graduated and I thought, you know what?

[13:31] Arielle Jacobs: If I want to—I thought in my head, if I want to do TV and film, I should go to LA now because they like want people to be really young there.

[13:41] Arielle Jacobs: So as young as I can go, I should go.

[13:44] Arielle Jacobs: So I moved to LA thinking I was gonna do all this TV and film and I auditioned and auditioned a ton, but it just didn't happen for me.

[13:54] Arielle Jacobs: Yeah.

[13:55] Arielle Jacobs: I think at the time too, there was—I was, first of all, I probably wasn't—I hadn't grown into the actor and artist that I am now.

[14:06] Arielle Jacobs: But I think I was also in LA at a time before In the Heights, before Hamilton, where people who looked a little ethnic were not booking the lead roles.

[14:17] Arielle Jacobs: Mm-hmm.

[14:30] Arielle Jacobs: Let's have her audition for all the Latina stuff. But then all of the Latina characters that I was auditioning for were very hard and like almost like, uh, Michelle Rodriguez. Like very just tough and hard and just like had this edge to them. And like I can do that, but that's not really my essence. And so there was your not your essence. There was always gonna be somebody who'd kind of, you know, went there easier than I did.

[14:58] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[14:59] Arielle Jacobs: So it was really tough for me in LA because I had a, you know, years in of just not auditions that didn't go anywhere.

[15:08] Matt Rodin: Yeah, right.

[15:09] Arielle Jacobs: But your, I guess your awareness of what the entertainment industry at large and obviously specifically theater, probably, especially New York theater, were you did you feel like more attuned to what it actually was because your brother had been in show? Like, do you know what I mean? Like I think a lot of times there's a dissonance between people's expectation of what working in New York or working professionally in theater is going to be, or in the entertainment industry at all versus what it actually is.

[15:44] Arielle Jacobs: Um, and I'm always curious about like that switch, that moment of being like, oh, this is not what I expected, but I'm curious if because your brother had been working and had been in the thing already, there was already some sort of like you, you had seen the man behind the curtain. The glamour had sort of faded away a little bit.

[16:06] Arielle Jacobs: Well, seeing my brother, so for listeners who don't know, my brother Adam Jacobs, original Aladdin on Broadway, and he was Simba and the Lion King. He was Marius. Marius in Les Mis. He's a big Broadway legend. Uh, and so yeah, I got to see somebody very, very close to me rising in the ranks of this Broadway industry. I think what that did for me was helped me see that it's possible, helped it feel attainable. It kind of, you know, it felt within reach because I saw him doing it.

[16:44] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[16:45] Arielle Jacobs: So it definitely instilled in me the mindset and belief that it's possible. Like I'm capable of this thing.

[16:52] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[16:53] Arielle Jacobs: At the same time, what you're talking about about, you know, the glamour of what people think it is versus what it really is, that happened to me separate from my brother. Because my first big show was High School Musical. I was the original Gabriella.

[17:10] Matt Rodin: Stop.

[17:11] Arielle Jacobs: In the first national tour, in the world premiere and the first national tour.

[17:14] Matt Rodin: A hundred percent I saw you in Chicago.

[17:16] Arielle Jacobs: For sure I saw you in Chicago.

[17:18] Matt Rodin: Oh my god.

[17:20] Arielle Jacobs: Yeah, that was me. That's iconic.

[17:22] Matt Rodin: Okay, that's iconic.

[17:24] Arielle Jacobs: Yeah. So, you know, I'm a young, young kid, and I'm like leading this humongous huge show. Huge. So, and it was huge. I really want to emphasize that. At the time, it was the height of that, uh, the craze.

[17:40] Matt Rodin: Brand.

[17:41] Arielle Jacobs: Yeah. Like, oh my god, it was huge. I mean, the cheering in the audience during the overture is unrivaled in my career. I've never heard anything like it. Like literally, people would be stomping and cheering and screaming like we were the Beatles. And I would think that the theater is gonna crumble.

[17:59] Matt Rodin: Oh my god, that's so good.

[18:02] Arielle Jacobs: Yeah. So that was my very big, you know, first big show. First job, big job, yeah, yeah. Um, and then after I, after that, that was my first national tour. And then my second national tour was In the Heights. And then when I came to the Broadway stage to the Broadway company in In the Heights, I kind of felt like, oh, this is actually a smaller theater than I was playing in these national tours.

[18:31] Matt Rodin: Right.

[18:31] Arielle Jacobs: It's much smaller.

[18:33] Matt Rodin: Right.

[18:34] Arielle Jacobs: Yes. Um, so it to me it just felt like kind of like I very the same, like as any national tour stop that I had had. But now it's Broadway, so it's...

[18:46] Matt Rodin: And you got to like live at home.

[18:50] Arielle Jacobs: And I got to live at home. And like you get the street cred of saying I'm in a Broadway show.

[18:54] Matt Rodin: Right, you get to check that box.

[18:56] Arielle Jacobs: Yeah. But in terms of the experience, it's not very different from performing in these big shows in a national tour.

[19:05] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[19:05] Arielle Jacobs: And I think that to me felt like surprising. And um, I mean, it was super exciting because when you get on your first Broadway show, then every subsequent audition that you go into, they're like, oh, well, she has a Broadway credit. It almost like people treat you differently.

[19:24] Matt Rodin: It it's, and like I don't, I that's true. Like that just is true.

[19:30] Arielle Jacobs: It's like you, you know, you've elevated your caliber in their minds. But for you, you're like, well, I'm doing what I've always done.

[19:38] Matt Rodin: Well, I was gonna say, did you feel a switch like internally? Like you just...

[19:41] Arielle Jacobs: Oh, no, no, no. Because for me, I know that my work prior to my Broadway debut was just as good as what I was doing on the Broadway stage.

[19:50] Matt Rodin: Yo, that's fierce.

[19:53] Arielle Jacobs: Because I do think that there can be, it's easy, I feel, when you get something like that, that validation can be like it when you say that, what, uh, when I hear you say that, it sounds to me like you had enough internal validation that it was now like the outside was matching the internal rather than the outside justifying or helping the internal validation, if you know what I'm saying.

[20:19] Matt Rodin: For sure, yeah, exactly right.

[20:21] Arielle Jacobs: And I think in a way, I think people need to have that internal belief in themselves in order for the Broadway door to open.

[20:30] Matt Rodin: So oh yes, that is the T right there. Because if you don't think you deserve to be on that Broadway stage, they are gonna feel that in the audition room.

[20:42] Arielle Jacobs: That's not, I mean, it's not like you, that belief about where you feel like you deserve to be, that lives outside of your body too.

[20:53] Matt Rodin: That's right.

[20:55] Arielle Jacobs: It's totally right. It's not, um, it's a confidence thing, but it's not, it's like it's different than cockiness, right? It's like, it's like a self-belief.

[21:06] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[21:07] Arielle Jacobs: And it's interesting too, right? Because growing up, I felt like I had this belief even at a very young age. Like I was in high school thinking like, oh, I can probably be performing on a Broadway stage. I just felt that. And I knew that I had so much to learn. I had so many, I had to like refine my skills. I had to, there was so much I knew I had to do to get to that level, but I also knew and believed that I could and that I deserved to be.

[21:43] Matt Rodin: So there's both.

[21:45] Arielle Jacobs: Right. Did you feel, was there, were there things outside of you that were, that like did that belief just kind of come, or was it like there were people around you like, do you know what I'm saying? Like, or was it just sort of inherent?

[21:57] Arielle Jacobs: Because I, I don't know if it, I don't know, I'm curious.

[22:04] Arielle Jacobs: Um, so I think that, uh, at the time, so let me think about it. So in high school I was doing a lot of performing because I was in my choir. I was in my all-female a cappella group.

[22:24] Arielle Jacobs: Of course. I was taking voice lessons every single week. Um, at a conservatory. Yeah. I was doing a lot of work, and I was also, I don't know, I was like performing a lot. Like in my high school, when I was in high school, I actually did a, um, my teacher at the time convinced me to do a one-hour solo recital.

[22:48] Matt Rodin: Right, right, right.

[22:49] Arielle Jacobs: Yes. So like I was given the opportunity and the invitation to craft a show, a solo show. And I did that as a junior and as a senior. And I was also performing in my high school theater shows. And I just felt like because I was getting a taste of it and was capable of doing it, even at that small scale, that the idea of doing it on a larger scale just felt possible. Like why not?

[23:23] Matt Rodin: Yeah, right.

[23:25] Arielle Jacobs: So as these opportunities have presented themselves to you, starting with high school musical and then obviously into In the Heights and Broadway, like what have been the, have there been struggles? Like have, and that's such a general question. But I mean like in terms, and of course the answer is like yes, but I'm like, I'm curious to know like what has been what's the sort of personal internal upheaval shifts that have happened as you've gotten older and as you've had to sort of figure out who you are in the midst of the thing that we're a part of.

[24:08] Arielle Jacobs: So one of the things that was a major upheaval in the journey of my journey to Broadway, um, was when after my Broadway debut in In the Heights, later that same year is when I got Bell's palsy.

[24:26] Matt Rodin: So I was...

[24:30] Arielle Jacobs: I mean, for people who don't know what Bell's palsy is, it's, it comes up, it's something that happens within twenty-four hours. It's like a sudden onset where half of your face becomes paralyzed. And the doctors don't really know why this happens. Some people think it's a virus, then there's other superstition that talks about, you know, oh, it's because cold air blew on your face for too long. Like people don't know. Like some people think it's stress. Some people think it's, you know, it's somebody nobody knows. So, but when it happens, it's suddenly. So I was in a show when it happened. I was doing a show up a, uh, a new Dunkin' Sheik Steven Seder musical called Nightingale. I was doing it up a New York Station film in Poughkeepsie, New York.

[25:14] Arielle Jacobs: And it was a very short process. So like we didn't have any understudies. And so when half of my face was paralyzed, and it's not numb, it's paralyzed. It's paralyzed. Like I couldn't move my mouth, I couldn't blink my eye. Like it was, it looked like I had a stroke or something. Um, but I had to go on because there's no understudies there. So Moises Kaufman, the director, is like, you'll be fine, just like cover. He's like, brush your hair over that side of your face. And so I did, but it doesn't fix your speech. I was gonna say your mouth. Like I couldn't, like all my mouth is only moving over one side of my face like that. Like only the left side, you can see me in the camera, only the left side of my mouth is moving, not my right. And so I was experiencing that. And I, holy sh, I lived with that for so, the doctors originally told me I'd be better in two weeks. And some people do get better in two weeks. For me, it lasted almost three months.

[26:22] Matt Rodin: Oh my god.

[26:23] Arielle Jacobs: And over the course of that time, I thought, okay, well, if I never have to perform again, what how else am I going to enrich my life so that I feel like I have creative expression?

[26:40] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[26:41] Arielle Jacobs: What else, what is my identity without performing? That's a huge upheaval to happen. Very early, by the way. And I think because I had that experience, I was in such a different place when pandemic happened than other artists because they had that question during pandemic.

[27:03] Matt Rodin: Yes.

[27:04] Arielle Jacobs: So what was the answer?

[27:06] Matt Rodin: Like, what did you end up finding in that?

[27:09] Arielle Jacobs: I did a lot of, um, crazy creative stuff.

[27:11] Matt Rodin: Okay.

[27:12] Arielle Jacobs: So I, I also am a painter. A lot of people don't know. Like I do a lot of visual art. Uh, so I went into painting more. I thought to myself, you know, maybe I'll just like set up one of those blankets on Venice Beach boardwalk and like sell my paintings to whoever passes by. Um, I also took a fire spinning class and I taught myself how to be a fire spinner.

[27:37] Arielle Jacobs: Because I had been to Burning Man and I always loved watching the people who are swinging those balls of fire around them.

[27:44] Matt Rodin: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[27:45] Arielle Jacobs: So yeah, I learned how to do that. Um, and I think the most important thing that I did was I didn't give up hope, and I didn't stop doing whatever I thought I could do that might benefit and help the situation. So for me, I thought, okay, well, what is scientifically in my brain is like, well, what is this paralysis? And I found out that it's like a compression of one of the nerves in your skull that sends messages from your brain to your muscles telling them to move. So I thought, okay, so if it's a compression of a nerve, I need to like release it. And I also had heard that if your muscles don't move for that long, they could atrophy. So that there could be a leftover permanent residual effect because they had stiffened over time.

[28:38] Arielle Jacobs: So I did a lot of um I guess it would be like Eastern New Agey, considered very new agey kind of healing. And I did a lot of like all my shit. Sound healing. I was doing like sound meditations. I was like humming and like sending the sound to different parts of my face and like trying to send vibrations to where, you know, to wake things up and massaging and constantly every morning I would go to the mirror and I would like see and I would like try to smile and I would like see if my mouth was moving again. So eventually, like took three months, but it came back, and it doesn't come back as fast. So like it's onset is within 24 hours, but comes back like 30, 40, like through a month or two months, like your muscles, regeneration of muscles happens.

I mean, sorry, regeneration of nerves from nerve damage happens so slowly. So it took a really long time. And I still have some residual effects. A lot of people don't know this because they see my face and they see it, it looks normal. But I do have some residual effects from it, like on the right side around my eye, around my mouth. And you can see it. Like if like very, very subtly, like when I you'll see like a uh something move, you know, when I when my lips touch or something, but yeah, that was a big upheaval for me on my journey.

[30:10] Matt Rodin: Well, yeah, and also like again, re I think what you said is true. The pandemic was a huge moment for a lot of artists because that question of who am I if I'm not doing this that was the first time that a lot of people had to face that question.

[30:26] Arielle Jacobs: Yeah. Um which is a really scary I mean I feel that way, like when I lose my voice, that's like what do I know me too? Right? It's like who am I without this thing? Like, what if what if I never get what if I never sing again? Like, what am I gonna do? Who's gonna be able to do that? Well, that also happened to me once. I I actually when I was in Wicked, I don't talk about this a lot, and most people don't know. But you know, singers are athletes. Yeah, and like athletes pull a muscle and you don't judge them, right? And singers sometimes get judged if they hurt their voices. And when I was in Wicked, I hemorrhaged on stage.

[31:01] Matt Rodin: I know so many people that have done that.

[31:03] Arielle Jacobs: Yeah. So many people. It's very common, but very not spoken about. So, you know, when when you hemorrhage and you you're like, oh well, now what do I do? And like it's super scary. You're like, your doctor's like, okay, so your vocal cords are bleeding. Like, what? You're like, oh, they're literally bleeding. They're literally bleeding. Um, I was okay. I just had to take two weeks off. They put me on steroids, and then I had to take two weeks and be complete vocal arrest.

[31:35] Matt Rodin: I was gonna say, it's not like it's not like you're out of the show for two weeks. It's like two weeks. No screen. You are not allowed to cough.

[31:41] Arielle Jacobs: Right. You can't even cough. You can't you cannot let those chords touch. Um so that was challenging. The other challenging thing was before Wicked, I had my tonsils out as an adult. We're getting into so many medical things today.

[31:58] Matt Rodin: I'm into it. I love it.

[32:00] Arielle Jacobs: Medical podcast. I haven't had my tonsils out. Or my wisdom teeth for that matter.

[32:03] Matt Rodin: Oh, I had those out too.

[32:04] Arielle Jacobs: Um, but but when I got the tonsils out as an adult because I was getting strep throat all the time, the doctor told me I'd be back singing again in like a month. No. It took me so long to figure out how to sing with a brand new instrument because the shape of my throat was different.

[32:23] Matt Rodin: Oh my gosh.

[32:25] Arielle Jacobs: It took me forever. Girl, you've been through it. You've been through it. A hemorrhage, bells, palsy, like, oh my God.

[32:36] Arielle Jacobs: Yeah. So, you know, a lot of times when like the question you're you're you asked me, like what what has been what has thrown you? Yeah. And what has made you question for me and I think for most people, the things that are going to throw you are things you cannot predict. They're things outside of yourself that happened to you.

[33:00] Matt Rodin: Yes.

[33:00] Arielle Jacobs: And because that's true, that has taught me to worry less. Because I in worrying, I learned this when I was in Wicked. I had my friend Fred Applegate, who was playing the wizard, and he used to tell me that I worried a lot, and he was like, you know, you need to stop borrowing trouble. And I was like, What? He said, You need to stop borrowing trouble. You're trying to, you're worrying because you think if you somehow borrow potential trouble from your future, that you have some sort of control over it. What? And that gives you a sense of control. And that blew my mind. And I have never forgotten that phrase, stop borrowing trouble. And I think that in this conversation with you, like I've learned so much throughout my life has shown me that the things that you the things that would be worrisome are things you cannot even imagine. They're just gonna be thrown at you. So why worry?

[34:05] Matt Rodin: Yeah, so what does that mean for you day to day now? Like what does that mean? What does that look like now, day to day?

[34:11] Arielle Jacobs: I am so much calmer than I used to be. And I get that sense, even from just sitting, I mean, from knowing you outside, but also from sitting here, like you seem very calm. You know what I mean? Like, you know what I mean? You see, it's it all like it seems very like there's there's a really relaxed energy. There just is an essence of that.

[34:32] Arielle Jacobs: I used to also do a lot more trauma bonding with people than I do now. It's a big actor artist thing.

[34:41] Matt Rodin: That's a big actor artist thing. We love it.

[34:43] Arielle Jacobs: I used to think, you know, the way to connect with people is to share trauma and talk about what's so hard for me. What's I'm dealing with this and with that, and I'm worrying about this and my future, and I just don't know what's gonna happen. And what why? Why do that? I I think that to live in that space makes us feel not alone. I get that, but it also exhausting.

[35:15] Matt Rodin: Is exhausting.

[35:16] Arielle Jacobs: And it's not good for you. No, your body. I mean, it's not good for your body to be in that state of like fight or flight all the time. Is just it can't be good for your heart. It can't be good for your mind. It can't be like for your blood. Like that can't be good for you.

[35:32] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[35:33] Arielle Jacobs: So and I also I've developed since pandemic, my husband and I are creating Sancta Via, which is a curriculum we started that's all longevity-focused physical and mental fitness. Right. Because you need both. You can't just be training your body physically. You need, you know, you need your mind to be strong.

[35:52] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[35:53] Arielle Jacobs: And my father passed away a couple years ago from Alzheimer's and Louis Body Dementia. And so for me, brain health is really important. Um, so I do have practices that help me in in my maintaining of calm. And I do breath work every morning, which actually as a singer has been life-changing for me.

[36:14] Matt Rodin: Really?

[36:15] Arielle Jacobs: Yes. Yes. I used to need to warm up my voice for like 30, 40 minutes. Now I do like 10 minutes of breathing and then like a 10 to 15 minute vocal warm-up, and I'm fine.

[36:30] Matt Rodin: Whoa.

[36:31] Arielle Jacobs: It's life. Yeah, I mean, because our bodies as singers, our bodies our instrument, and our body is made up of muscles that need to be expanded and stretched. And dancers know this, but singers, we don't often think about stretching our lung capacity. Right. And waking up our internal muscles in our soft palate in our mouth. We might do, you know, opening our our mouth and make yawning s yawning faces. But it's a full singing is a full body sport.

[37:06] Matt Rodin: Yes.

[37:07] Arielle Jacobs: So in waking up the whole system of the the spine, the lungs, the the rib cage, it's like if you can do that every day, your singing will be so much easier, so much safer, and your mental state will be better.

[37:25] Matt Rodin: Yeah, so like what does obviously I totally agree. Um what does the What is the mental state now look like? You know, like what does like how how are you moving through I mean, even like going into auditioning for this job and getting this show and now moving through this show and doing an off Broadway show and letting that run and seeing how that you know what I mean? Like what is it our yeah, like me mentally, emotionally, like how has it been?

[37:58] Arielle Jacobs: I think that I have learned how to loosen my grip. And in that and I mean that in more ways than one. Of course I don't just mean like I've learned that I can't control the outer circumstance of whether a show opens or closes, which is true. I gave six years of my life to between the lines. Yeah. We had a two month run off Broadway at second stage, and it closed or little even a little early, but for many reasons. Um pandemic still being one of them, because theater's not fully back. It is maybe now this year, but last year wasn't yet. And um out of your control. Out of my control. But aside from that loosening my grip, I'm also loosening my grip in terms of planning what I do when I perform and what I do in an audition room.

[38:54] Matt Rodin: Ooh.

[38:58] Arielle Jacobs: So I've gotten to the place now where when I and I think what's so exciting is I think that my audition process for Here Lies Love was the very first time I had ever not planned every single beat of my performance in that audition room.

[39:18] Matt Rodin: We love to hear it.

[39:20] Arielle Jacobs: We love to hear it. I was just love to hear it. I was just letting I was just living in an emotional state and staying uh with my energy outward, which is second circle, which is a book everyone should read called The Second Circle. But I was living in an emotional place and letting whatever happened be a surprise. But fully committing, fully, fully committing to that emotional state.

[39:45] Matt Rodin: So that fully fully committed.

[39:47] Arielle Jacobs: Yes. Because you want it's one thing to not plan something and then just kind of also not be in it. Right. Because you don't want to just be like blah. But it's another thing and a positive thing if you can fully commit to an emotional state of your character, use the words as communication, but not have a plan as to how they come out or what you do physically with your body. I've learned to trust that.

[40:14] Matt Rodin: That was that's exactly what I was gonna say was I I think it it the challenge comes, it's easier said to say, yeah, go in with no plan, you know, fully released, let it be what it is, and then trusting that whatever's gonna happen is gonna happen, and then not like I feel like the block happens because all of a sudden you start to self-analyze. Like you start being pr all of a sudden you're present and you're you're you know, you haven't prepared and something's happening. I mean actually I shouldn't say prepared, plan because preparation is very different than planning.

[40:46] Arielle Jacobs: Yeah.

[40:47] Matt Rodin: Um, but you have no plan, you go in, you're present in that moment, and then all of a sudden you're like, oh well, wait, well, this is and then that you you sort of lose that trust, and that's when the thing falls apart.

[40:58] Arielle Jacobs: Yeah, or you start to glance at the people behind the table and their faces make you think that they're bored or they're they don't like you. Right. And a lot of times those faces that they're making are just their thinking face. But you think they they hate you. You're like, wow, I am the worst. They think I'm terrible. And then like your mind starts like making these stories, and then you're like, and then it affects your performance because you're not gonna be.

[41:30] Matt Rodin: Yes.

[41:31] Arielle Jacobs: Yeah, so those are just like mental blocks, but but learning how to bring it back. I mean, that also happened in my audition this time for Hero Lice Love. I actually there's one producer and I saw the face and I was like, Oh my god, they don't like me. But but it's learning how to not go not follow that route with your mind and just be like, Okay, release it, come back.

[41:54] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[41:55] Arielle Jacobs: And like how fast you can do that, release it, come back. That is that is the determining factor about whether it's gonna be successful.

[42:05] Matt Rodin: That feels like meditation to me.

[42:06] Arielle Jacobs: Oh, for sure. Yeah, right. That it's like it's you know, sitting and being present either with a single thought or being present with your breath or whatever it is, hearing a thought come in, not attaching yourself to it, allowing it to like pass through and then returning to whatever state you were in before, returning to your breath or returning to whatever your mantra is. Um it feels very similar to that.

[42:30] Arielle Jacobs: Yeah, and it actually I agree. And I had to do it not only in the singing portion, but in the dance, because I forgot some of the choreography and the. That's a whole other thing. When you I I just forgot the choreo, and then like uh your brain when when you mess up, your brain can then throw the whole thing out and be like, well then screw it. I I already messed, I they're not gonna pick me. And then you just like you're gone. But I have learned how to, like you said, just like release it and come back.

[43:03] Arielle Jacobs: And I think it's about self-talk. It's not just release it, come back, be present. It's release it and then tell yourself a better story. I got this, I know this. I'm I got this. I'm gonna be great. I am great. It's like giving yourself something else to focus on that's actually helpful.

[43:22] Matt Rodin: Yes.

[43:22] Arielle Jacobs: That's that's what for me helped a lot. Do you think that's different than because I'm hearing you say that and I totally agree, and I'm curious because the thing I feel like Yeah, I is it different than faith? Like, is it different than the like the thing I try to come back to a lot is like, how can I trust that whatever's meant for me won't pass me by, that if I'm meant to get this, I won't mess it up, and if I'm not meant to get this, there's nothing I could do to change that. I this is all happening by design. Everything is meant to be, and my job is to show up and be present and allow whatever to happen to happen, and I'll take away what I need to take away. And you know what I'm saying? Like the like they feel parallel, but I don't know that they're the same.

[44:13] Arielle Jacobs: They're not the same in my opinion, because one is macro, one is that those thoughts you just had happen outside of the audition room. They happen when you go home because you have to let it go. Yeah, you have to let go control or expectation. But when you're in the audition room, when you need to actually come back to focus, right? Because your mind has gone elsewhere or starts lying to you and telling you stories about how you're you already screwed it up. So it they're they already decided you don't have it, and then you have to reel it back in.

[44:45] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[44:45] Arielle Jacobs: That if I if I just messed up the choreography and I said, Oh, well, whatever happens, happens. If it's meant to be, it'll be. Then from that moment on, how much commitment and energy I'm giving to the choreography, let's say, in this example, suddenly becomes like whatever feeling. And you don't want that.

[45:12] Matt Rodin: Yes.

[45:13] Arielle Jacobs: You want to you wanna believe that you you want to come back to believing that it's that you can do it and that you got it, and that you you know, g show them, show them who you are and be fully um expanded in that moment and purposeful.

[45:35] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[45:36] Arielle Jacobs: It's similar to what we were talking about before, I feel like, in terms of like deserving or confidence in the sense of like feeling like, no, I deserve to be here, and I have something to give. And like that, that story, letting that story be the one that comes to the forefront rather than the one that's running off, which is I'm terrible. I don't deserve I I can't believe I'm here. I just embarrassed myself. This is blah blah blah. That one.

[45:59] Matt Rodin: Right.

[46:00] Arielle Jacobs: I'm embarrassed myself. That it's interesting because self-talk, people talk about how self-talk is important, and it's true, but it's it's also like specific self-talk. Because this I I don't know, like I do think that when people say I am enough, that it's meaningful and that that's great. But I also think that if you heighten that and you say, I'm amazing, I'm not just enough, I'm amazing, I'm great, I got this, I'm capable, I am powerful, I am I I trust myself, and I to know that you have a certain level of influence that and you tell yourself that raises your um sense of worth because you want to be equals with the people around you. You don't just want to be enough that you deserve to be there. Like that's a baseline.

[47:04] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[47:04] Arielle Jacobs: Enough is the baseline.

[47:06] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[47:07] Arielle Jacobs: And and enough, enough will get you maybe to back to being present in the moment, but it won't get you to the next level of I got this, I'm amazing, I can do this. That's like I yeah, that's delicious to me.

[47:25] Matt Rodin: That is, and I feel like that's hard. Am I like I I don't know if hard is the right word, but I think it's it's against our programming, maybe. Maybe that's like what I'm trying to say. Is like it's it's antithetical to what we have been trained, or you know, what we're used to doing, what our habits are.

[47:45] Arielle Jacobs: That's true.

[47:46] Matt Rodin: Yeah, it takes practice.

[47:48] Arielle Jacobs: Definitely takes practice. Um but I think it it's just through awareness, because you need to practice when you're not in that moment of when a self-doubt is coming at you. Like if you only practice in the audition room when you mess up your choreography, it probably won't be second nature. Like it has to happen. You have to be doing that in your day-to-day, right?

[48:17] Matt Rodin: Yeah, yeah.

[48:20] Arielle Jacobs: Right, because how can you you can't expect that thing that that practice to show up in the room. But I will say, and I want to make this clear that when you think you're amazing, which everyone here needs to start thinking that you're amazing.

[48:37] Matt Rodin: No, but when you do that, that you also have an awareness that you're growing.

[48:46] Arielle Jacobs: Ooh, yeah, let's expand on that. What does that mean?

[48:50] Arielle Jacobs: Because so there's this amazing course that um Mike Tyson put out, the boxer. Of all people. And he and he was trained in how to have these audacious affirmations about himself. But he also has a mantra every day where he says, and this is to help himself get better as a boxer, but I think that if you apply this mantra to your life, that it's can be applied everywhere. And he says, every day, in every way, I'm getting better and better and better. So if you take that in and you really think about living in this space of growth, knowing that you are constantly growing, knowing that you are doing the mental work, but also the tactile skill development work of getting better and better and better.

[49:49] Matt Rodin: While believing you're amazing.

[49:52] Arielle Jacobs: Right. That's it. That's it. That's the key. And I think both I think it's really important to have both. Because a trap that I have fallen into, which I'm I'm not sure, but I have a feeling you can identify with, is this sort of idea that like I'm not good enough right now. There's that word enough again. But it's like I'm getting better and better and better so that I can be good enough, right? Like I will be happy when I achieve X, Y, or Z, or when I'm what whatever it is. Like there's some there's some destination that I will be like that my growth, I need to grow to a certain point in order to be like grown or something like that.

[50:32] Arielle Jacobs: And I think uh I heard a qu I'm not gonna I can't quote it, I'm not gonna be able to do this, but basically that they're like that maybe the highest point of your evolution is accepting where you are right now. Like there's like there's the there's there's the acceptance of like that it's it's b it's both being like I'm growing and I'm learning every single day, and what a gift that is. How lucky am I that I get to continue to grow and learn, and where I am now and who I am right now is what is where I am in that process. And that's okay. That's great. That that's amazing. Look how far I've come. I have more to learn, but where I am right now is special. Like it's and I'm like you said, special, amazing. Like, can I affirm that within myself? And I think that balance is important.

[51:28] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[51:29] Arielle Jacobs: And it's so hard.

[51:30] Matt Rodin: Oh my god, it's so hard.

[51:34] Arielle Jacobs: Yeah.

[51:35] Matt Rodin: It's so hard. Especially, listen, especially, I mean, I'm sure it I think it's hard as a human being, period. But I maybe feel that it's especially hard in an industry where it feels like, and I guess this is true, that like some of the opportunities are out of your control.

[51:59] Arielle Jacobs: So many of the outcomes are out of your control.

[52:05] Matt Rodin: And so it it it there's a lot, it's very vulnerable to basically go into a room and say, pick me. You know, I hope it's me.

[52:25] Arielle Jacobs: And if that matches what you guys are looking for, then like that's amazing.

[52:29] Matt Rodin: And I'm now you're also talking about give, which puts you at a different place of being in an equal level, right?

[52:38] Arielle Jacobs: Don't you love that?

[52:39] Matt Rodin: I love the give.

[52:40] Arielle Jacobs: I'm such a I'm in a huge, I'm in a huge kick of that. I think that's just so powerful.

[52:47] Matt Rodin: Well, I uh I'm saying potentially it devalues what you have to what your gifts are.

[52:52] Arielle Jacobs: Say more.

[52:54] Arielle Jacobs: If you go in there, this is what I have to give, is different than you saying, this is what I do.

[53:01] Matt Rodin: Ooh.

[53:04] Arielle Jacobs: Because you want to be on equal footing. Ideally, you want your your mind and your body and your senses to feel like you aren't equal footing with the people behind the table. If you go in there and you say, This is what I do, and maybe it's a good fit uh a puzzle piece for the puzzle that you're crafting. Maybe it's not, but this is what I do.

[53:25] Matt Rodin: But this is what I do.

[53:29] Arielle Jacobs: Yeah.

[53:30] Matt Rodin: And that feels different than let me give you this gift.

[53:35] Arielle Jacobs: Let me this is what I have to give.

[53:37] Matt Rodin: Huh.

[53:41] Arielle Jacobs: Yeah, this is good. I like this. I'm I'm into this and and figuring out the distinction between the two because is it that give feels like you're giving something away, or that it's like giving a piece of yourself?

[53:56] Matt Rodin: Give almost to me feels like uh still feels like an ask.

[54:02] Arielle Jacobs: Damn.

[54:06] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[54:08] Arielle Jacobs: And do is not an ask.

[54:10] Matt Rodin: No.

[54:12] Arielle Jacobs: No.

[54:13] Matt Rodin: Do is maybe an invitation, even.

[54:16] Arielle Jacobs: Mm-hmm.

[54:17] Matt Rodin: I like that.

[54:20] Arielle Jacobs: Like this is what I do. Meet me here.

[54:23] Matt Rodin: Exactly.

[54:24] Arielle Jacobs: This is what I do. You like it or you don't. It fits or it doesn't. But this is what I do.

[54:30] Matt Rodin: And and my favorite thing is when an audition turns into a work session.

[54:34] Arielle Jacobs: Oh my God.

[54:35] Matt Rodin: It's the best thing.

[54:36] Arielle Jacobs: That's well, that's all I that's honestly. That's all I want. I want to work.

[54:39] Matt Rodin: But that's the and I think that's also a shift in how you approach every room. Even if if it even if they tell you, oh, you have an audition for this edit your brain, you know.

[54:51] Arielle Jacobs: No, I have a work session.

[54:53] Matt Rodin: That's what you say.

[54:54] Arielle Jacobs: Every audition goes in in my calendar as a work session.

[54:56] Matt Rodin: Work session.

[54:57] Arielle Jacobs: I love it. Every single one. Just because even I think that's small, again, that's the micro of the macro. Like, even that small little practice of reprogramming, looking in my phone and seeing work session, like keeping that mentality going in there, being like, what we were talking about before, like having openness and not needing to plan anything, being prepared, but not having a plan, going in there saying, This is what I do, and then being willing and excited about let's work.

[55:27] Matt Rodin: Let's like, I want to hear what you have to give.

[55:29] Arielle Jacobs: I want to hear the notes. Because also I'm curious about if I'm gonna like the way that you work with me.

[55:34] Matt Rodin: There you go.

[55:35] Arielle Jacobs: I like that. Right? I mean, because ultimately you know, and I've said this a thousand times over again, but something that I I'm not sure if you have had this before, but I used to go in rooms and try to be what I thought they wanted me to be.

[55:50] Matt Rodin: Oh my god, I've done that so many times.

[55:53] Arielle Jacobs: And let me tell you something. I was pretty good at it. I was pretty good. So I would book, I would book a job, and then we get into like tech week or whatever, and the director would sit me down and say, like, you're doing you're not doing what you did in the audition room.

[56:07] Matt Rodin: Oh wow.

[56:08] Arielle Jacobs: Like something is different. And I would be like, Well, yeah, what do you mean? Like, I've changed. But I started to realize that, like, wait a second, I'm going in there and presenting something that I'm not. I'm I'm I'm giving something that I think you wanted, which I got right, but that's not who I am.

[56:25] Matt Rodin: Exactly.

[56:25] Arielle Jacobs: And now I'm going in a room and having to pretend that I'm something that I'm not.

[56:31] Matt Rodin: Exactly.

[56:31] Matt Rodin: The worst.

[56:31] Arielle Jacobs: And that is the worst.

[56:36] Arielle Jacobs: And for me, I the times when I have done what you did, I did not book the job. But then there's that thinking, your mind's like, well, okay. What if I had just done what I do and really put my spin on it? Would I have booked it? And then you're living with that what if.

[56:52] Matt Rodin: Yeah, right.

[56:53] Arielle Jacobs: Which is awful.

[56:54] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[56:56] Arielle Jacobs: But I will say there's no better feeling than doing what you do, being met, feeling seen, feeling heard. And then I I oh my god, I could burst the joy and the excitement that comes from getting the opportunity to go into a room every day for rehearsal.

[57:18] Arielle Jacobs: And feel like I can just be myself.

[57:20] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[57:22] Arielle Jacobs: Like I can just bring myself to this, to this moment in this place, and that I'm and that I'm, and maybe this is my validation seeking coming up, but like I'm wanted. You know, that like I am wanted, who I am, and what I have and what I do is wanted.

[57:40] Matt Rodin: Right.

[57:42] Arielle Jacobs: It's important. As an artist, it's very important to want to have that feeling that what you do and the art that you make, and your collaboration in something is appreciated.

[57:59] Matt Rodin: And valued.

[58:00] Arielle Jacobs: And valued, yeah. Yeah. And again, having that external meet the internal. Rather than having the internal need the external.

[58:16] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[58:17] Arielle Jacobs: Yeah. Um. I'm happy to hear all these things. And that I I knew that this would be a deep and delicious conversation because I can I just had a I had an inkling. Um, and I also think that so many of this, the Eastern philosophies that I think we're talking about, which I uh that's really what I believe is that a lot of the things that we're talking about are like mostly Eastern philosophies. They they really work so well for artists, they really apply so so well to what we do. Um and I yeah, I'm just like I'm happy to hear that you're like present in what you're doing and that you're like it seems like you're enjoying what you're doing.

[59:03] Arielle Jacobs: I am I am feeling very fulfilled.

[59:06] Matt Rodin: You are, yeah.

[59:09] Arielle Jacobs: I mean, what a gift. Like, you know, I mean, that's like what it's the that's the best. Like to be ex I mean again, I'm sure not every day is you know great, but it's a it's nice to be able to feel excited about the work that you're doing.

[59:23] Matt Rodin: Oh yeah. And and also I love and get excited by projects that I feel like are helping to shine a light on something that people don't know or people don't talk about. Like you didn't know this history. I didn't know this history either. And I'm Filipino. But a lot of Filipino families don't talk about it.

[59:49] Arielle Jacobs: Whoa.

[59:50] Matt Rodin: So getting the opportunity to shine a light on something like this. And getting people to not only learn something new, but also make connections for themselves about are there people in the world today that we need to watch out for that are potentially trying to do the same thing. How do we in a democracy um not let the people who have those the people in power who who might want to like grip too hard and keep their hold on everything forever. How do we how do we watch out for that?

[1:00:44] Arielle Jacobs: It feels painfully relevant. Let me tell you, painfully relevant. So I think you know, I get fulfillment from doing art like this because I not only do I am I getting to use myself as an artist and my creative expression, but yeah, I'm doing it with a purpose that will you know shift other people, make them think, make them inspired. Again, like what a gift, like such a gift. And I and I can see that you recognize that that's like an incredible opportunity to get to do that, you know.

[1:01:24] Matt Rodin: Yes.

[1:01:25] Arielle Jacobs: Yeah. Because you know, a lot of shows that we do are are serve a different purpose.

[1:01:33] Matt Rodin: Yes.

[1:01:34] Arielle Jacobs: Serve the purpose of helping people escape from their lives and go to a happier um you know place to make them feel good, make them laugh, make them smile, make them connected with their friends and family. And this does that too, but yeah. I mean, art serves so so many purposes.

[1:02:00] Matt Rodin: Has this been I'm just curious how this has been um helpful, interesting in rediscovering or taking ownership over your own Filipino identity because it seems like I mean you played Nina, like you you know what I mean? Like it like you were saying, like you have been seen as I mean you play Jasmine. Like you you've been seen as sort of one thing, or which is much more generalized in in the past, and I feel like this finally is specific, and I'm curious like if that has been what that's been like.

[1:02:39] Arielle Jacobs: It feels huge because it does feel, yeah. I feel seen as a Filipino artist, Asian American artist. I I feel like I'm finally able to play a Filipino and tell a Filipino story, and for me, it's like I feel like I'm reconnecting to my past. I'm I'm reconnecting to my heritage and I'm doing this almost as a hmm. What is it the Michelangelo with the day? Well, no, what's the reach? Yes, the reaching.

[1:03:25] Matt Rodin: Yeah, I don't know who it is, but I know what you're talking about.

[1:03:27] Arielle Jacobs: Yeah, right, right, right. I feel like I am reaching towards the Philippines, towards my ancestors. And this this show every night gives me that opportunity to to reach that in that direction. Um my my grandfather, this is uh an interesting long story, but my grandfather was born in the Philippines when it was an American colony. And a lot of people don't know that the Philippines were an American colony.

[1:04:00] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[1:04:01] Arielle Jacobs: Before uh they kind of got their freedom after World War II. But before that, they were a Philippine colony. I mean, sorry, American colony. So my grandfather was born w thinking I'm an American, but he was born in the Philippines. So he served for the US uh military as a Philippine scout in World War II. He married my grandmother, had kids, and your grandmother also being born in the Philippines?

[1:04:31] Matt Rodin: Yeah, my grandmother's Filipino too.

[1:04:33] Arielle Jacobs: Then they had their kids, and as they have these young toddlers, my my grandfather his desire to get to America grows. He wants to bring his kids to America. So he had he been to America?

[1:04:48] Matt Rodin: Never.

[1:04:49] Arielle Jacobs: No. He just had this American dream.

[1:04:51] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[1:04:52] Arielle Jacobs: And he thought, you know, if I get my family there, they're gonna have a better education. They're gonna have opportunities that they don't have here. He wrote to different US senators every single week for 13 years.

[1:05:06] Matt Rodin: Stop.

[1:05:09] Arielle Jacobs: And he had correspondence. They wrote back. They he's thirteen years.

[1:05:17] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[1:05:18] Arielle Jacobs: Yeah. So in his mind, he was trying to make it happen to get the family here and was feeling like he was getting closer and closer. It wasn't happening. It wasn't happening. And then there was a law passed in nineteen sixty-five that was called the non quota immigration act. And it allowed a wider range of people from different countries to come to the US. Our family, because of his letters, I think, was the very first family from Manila, from the Philippines to come from the Philippines through Manila to the US.

[1:05:51] Matt Rodin: The first.

[1:05:52] Arielle Jacobs: The first. We were, I think, he says we were on the front page of the Manila Times.

[1:05:56] Matt Rodin: Oh my God.

[1:05:58] Arielle Jacobs: So his dedication got us here. He actually I feel so proud of him because when he was a Philippine scout in World War II, one of the things that the US promised these scouts was that if you serve for the US, you will be granted uh visas, you'll be able to come be US citizens. And then they didn't get that. It didn't come through. The US did not follow through. So when he got a few years ago, he's still alive, he's ninety-seven. And a few years ago, the US finally, finally recognized their mistake, and he was awarded a US Congressional Gold Medal for his service as a Philippine scout in World War Two. There's not that many left that are still alive.

[1:06:51] Matt Rodin: Of course.

[1:06:52] Arielle Jacobs: But he got this handed to him in person from a senator who apologized on behalf of America. And he was crying and I'm crying, just thinking about what that meant to him. And so so this complicated relationship between the Philippines and America. It created, I'm sure, for my grandfather, this a lot of tension in his body of false promises and um, you know, being born an Amer in an American colony, but then when Philippines got its independence, he suddenly can't claim being American anymore. And then now that I'm here because of him and I am on Broadway telling a Filipino story, I feel like I am healing this rift in in him, but also in in the history of the two countries.

[1:08:05] Matt Rodin: And if generational trauma lives in all of us, which I think it does, I can't even I'm sure it's pretty impossible to articulate what that integration is a good word. Yeah. You know what I mean? But like that's what it like it it that what that feels like, you know.

[1:08:25] Arielle Jacobs: I'm I'm just curious, like if you're I if you were connected to your Filipino identity before the show, like was this something that you were aware of your whole life that you were kind of like, this is just a part of me, but I don't necessarily know what to do about it, or was it like I don't really I'm from I know my family's from the Philippines, you know and you know what I mean? Like has or has the show been sort of a reclamation for you.

[1:08:47] Arielle Jacobs: I think the sh well, it kind of both. Like I grew up knowing my my my own family's connection and my grandfather's history and got it. Um and at the same time the show has also been a reclamation of the culture of having that be s a larger presence in my life.

[1:09:08] Matt Rodin: Right. Right.

[1:09:09] Arielle Jacobs: Right. Which I mean, I I think that's happening, I hear that's happening across the board. Which is exciting, I think, that a lot of people are starting to find pieces. I think that's like the best thing that theater can do is like it can help obviously an audience, but especially as actors, like it can help us reclaim parts of ourselves that we didn't even know we were missing, or we didn't even know we're like not, you know what I mean? We weren't like giving enough attention and time to and love to.

[1:09:40] Matt Rodin: Yeah, yeah.

[1:09:43] Arielle Jacobs: And that's yeah, it's just like that's I'm like I was excited about the show before, but now hearing all this again, like it's even sweet, you know what I mean? It's just like the context to make something so much more you feel it more. Um so yeah, I'm just excited for you. This is it's so great, and and you know, you are using all of your gifts in the show. You really get to shine.

[1:10:06] Matt Rodin: Thank you.

[1:10:09] Arielle Jacobs: Um I hope and I know I hope you feel that way, and it seems like you you do that that you know that this is um a special opportunity and and it's girl you're not in the proscenium too. You're right on you're you're melting right in our faces.

[1:10:22] Matt Rodin: You're right, you're right up in there.

[1:10:24] Arielle Jacobs: You are right up in there right it's not there ain't no there's no forget the fourth wall like it ain't there's there's nothing.

[1:10:30] Matt Rodin: Nope.

[1:10:30] Arielle Jacobs: There is nothing there. Um so I'm yeah I'm just I'm really excited for you and I and I'm excited to see how this continues to unfold and what this means for you as a human being going forward and what this means for your career going forward and what that all looks like but I'm very grateful that we got to talk now at this point. Um, you know now that you've opened the show you guys are into the run you're settling into the run now.

[1:10:58] Matt Rodin: Yeah um and the future is like you said like it's just out of it's out of our control.

[1:10:58] Arielle Jacobs: It's out of our control.

[1:11:05] Matt Rodin: So you're so and it and it's and listen it's such a relief to hear that that like you know you're just you're in it and you're showing up every day and being present with yourself and your body and you're taking care of yourself. It's like it's all you can do.

[1:11:17] Arielle Jacobs: So I'm super super grateful that we got to that we got to do this.

[1:11:21] Matt Rodin: Thank you.

[1:11:22] Arielle Jacobs: Thank you. This has been such a great chat.