This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Matt Rodin: Hey, thanks for hitting play. Welcome to The Come Up. My name is Matt. And on this episode, a very special conversation with my dear friend, Micaela Diamond. As of May 2nd, 2023, Micaela is now a Tony Award nominated actress for her performance in the Broadway revival of PARADE. And I think what makes this whole thing so exciting for me is that I know and love Micaela personally. And to witness a friend being recognized for their gifts, it's really just indescribable. Back in March when things were a little less crazy, Micaela came over. We filmed some self-tapes together, and then we sat down on my couch and just talked. This is that conversation. We covered everything from validation and vocal breaks to partnership and pasta.

What you might not know is that during the pandemic, Micaela went to and graduated from culinary school. So in addition to being transcendent on stage, she's truly a beast in the kitchen. This is all to say I love her. And I'm so grateful that this podcast gave us an excuse to capture this special moment in her life. I hope this conversation brings you as much joy as it brought me. So without further ado, here is Micaela Diamond.

[1:27] Micaela Diamond: I wanted to beat Bucks for a long for a while. I'm glad we didn't go that route, honey. In high school I did a little bit. I'm sure you didn't have suburbs of Chicago. Yeah, you had to like, if you were in, you know, you're but I never did um that was the one thing I was like really upset about was I didn't get to do college a cappella.

[1:45] Matt Rodin: Yeah, you missed that one. It's funny how many people go to like Yale and end up like taking an entire year around the world to do a cappella.

[1:54] Micaela Diamond: I mean, it is a loved sport.

[1:57] Matt Rodin: Yes, sport is a good word for it. I because I was in high school and I was watching like, oh my god, I just talked to Grace McLean and she was in, I didn't know, but she was in the Anharmonics, which is like huge.

[1:59] Micaela Diamond: The a cappella group, excuse me, the a cappella group from NYU.

[2:11] Matt Rodin: Mm-hmm.

[2:13] Micaela Diamond: That was like iconic to me. Like, it was like they were like giving like wild ass cool arrangements.

[2:20] Matt Rodin: Legends.

[2:21] Micaela Diamond: And I didn't get that. They didn't have and I don't know why I didn't like when I was applying to schools, it wasn't like a thanks. It was like, oh, BFA.

[2:30] Matt Rodin: Did Boco just not have it?

[2:31] Micaela Diamond: No.

[2:32] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[2:33] Micaela Diamond: What? We're too busy. I would have been bad in an a cappella group.

[2:38] Matt Rodin: Why?

[2:39] Micaela Diamond: Um, you're like, my voice is too different.

[2:45] Matt Rodin: No.

[2:45] Micaela Diamond: I like have a break.

[2:48] Matt Rodin: So do I. We were in Ben and I were doing an interview the other day, and somebody was like, what would you tell your younger self? And I go, that it's okay to have a break.

[2:59] Micaela Diamond: In your voice.

[2:59] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[3:00] Micaela Diamond: Ben goes, in your voice. That's like correct. No, but that's a thing. Like because for so many years I spent my like trying to figure out how I can like smooth it out, how I can sing defying fucking gravity and like not float up into my fucking mix. And now I'm like, no, PARADE you like it's beautiful. I love having a break.

[3:24] Matt Rodin: You like like I like it now. I I uh yeah, and I mean I was my I always felt like my falsetto was so weak, and so it was like you gotta iron out your break. You want to go seamlessly from your chest into your head, which is like in theory, yes. But then honestly, it's only in the last few years that I've been like, no, I can just like sing something in my head voice and just like choose like you know who um really Ellery Ward is the one that I feel like has like opened up my mind to that, where she was like, no, I'm just gonna embrace you know, she does the acoustic Sondheim. Yeah, she like she embraced the fact that her voice like she leaned into the voice fact that a lot of she's like yodally in that way, yeah.

[4:08] Micaela Diamond: Yes, yeah.

[4:09] Matt Rodin: So I was like, yeah, that's just be like, oh yeah, this is the way my voice is totally. I like it. It just gives different colors. And I feel like um I was always used to say, like, the like the peoples whose voices that we like know and recognize, someone like Patti LuPone or like Bernadette Peters, like even Carolee, like they sound like them. They don't sound like everyone else.

[4:32] Micaela Diamond: Audrey one right. They don't sound like everyone else. Which again, like, I mean, you didn't have to deal with this, but in college, it was a I felt like it was a lot of that. Yeah, a lot of like completely changed when Wicked happened. I just feel like that was kind of the game changing moment when all of a sudden women wanted their voices to sound pinny and exactly the same.

[4:53] Matt Rodin: And you were in high school.

[4:54] Micaela Diamond: Yeah.

[4:56] Matt Rodin: And I was like, I can I want to sing like Kelly, not Idina Menzel or Stephanie.

[5:03] Micaela Diamond: Huh.

[5:04] Matt Rodin: Yeah, I wanted Kelly O'Hara's voice.

[5:06] Micaela Diamond: Which is not belty.

[5:08] Matt Rodin: No, no.

[5:09] Micaela Diamond: I mean, stunning.

[5:11] Matt Rodin: Resonant.

[5:12] Micaela Diamond: Oh my gosh.

[5:13] Matt Rodin: For sure.

[5:14] Micaela Diamond: That tracks.

[5:15] Matt Rodin: Yeah. Because that's like kind of I mean, you don't sound like her, but you do like have thank you. I do an opera.

[5:20] Micaela Diamond: We did one.

[5:22] Matt Rodin: We did. We didn't an opera.

[5:25] Micaela Diamond: An opera.

[5:26] Matt Rodin: Was it an opera?

[5:27] Micaela Diamond: So we're starting with it.

[5:28] Matt Rodin: Yeah, that's that's how we that's how it starts. We did an opera a few months ago at the Kennedy Center.

[5:32] Micaela Diamond: Yeah.

[5:33] Matt Rodin: Do you hear that? We were at the Kennedy Center doing Leonard Bernstein's MASS. The weirdest shit I've ever done in my entire life. It was fucking chaos. The lowest of the low stakes. I forgot my lyrics every night on stage to the point where I had to write them in the Bible.

[5:52] Micaela Diamond: In a Bible.

[5:53] Matt Rodin: It was so bad. And it was it was something like, God said, take charge of my zoo. I made these creatures for you. And then one night I just said, and we had to repeat after you. And so we like God said take charge of my zoo. God said take charge of my zoo. Like that, back and forth. So then when I had no words, everyone said that bad.

[6:17] Micaela Diamond: Oh my god. It was legendary. I did kind of cry after a little, but then you were like, let's get a drink. Well, and also again, like the stakes were so low. But but I will say that was it was so humiliating.

[6:33] Micaela Diamond: Yeah, yeah, but also important for me to see you in that way. Cause there's no like I forget my lyrics.

[6:43] Matt Rodin: Um, you did it in Cher.

[6:46] Micaela Diamond: That was a thing.

[6:47] Matt Rodin: I did it was a thing. I wouldn't say it was a thing, but the f there was a week of shows where and this is actually so interesting. But after a certain amount of time when you're in a show, you the material changes from your short term memory to your long term memory.

[7:04] Micaela Diamond: Right, right, right.

[7:04] Matt Rodin: So when you're singing a song, like we all of us forget lyrics all the time, and you like go into your short term memory real quick and you pull it out, and then you're fine. Um but a certain point becomes muscle memory.

[7:16] Micaela Diamond: Exactly.

[7:16] Matt Rodin: Exactly. So I was like in month seven or something, and it I was like trying to find it quickly, and it was like not there. And so I like went, I had to go to my long-term memory, and I like couldn't find it. Obviously, these this was not the thoughts I was having in the moment. I was just like in a white room freaking out during B goes on, and I had no one to help me. And I just like complete couldn't remember the monologue, completely blacked out, and then got off stage and like there was a choice of like you can let this moment um give you anxiety for the next week because you're afraid you're gonna forget it the whole time, or you can just move on and like not let your ego freak out. And I chose the first one.

[8:05] Micaela Diamond: And so for the the whole week, I was in panic mode. Right, as you get to that point of the show. I would always freak out, and I would always forget the words. And then so that kind of triggered a a response in me that every time I forget the words now, I just have to think like just make a choice, and you can just decide it's okay and that you're not a failure of a person. And I remember at City Center, I forgot the words to do it alone.

[8:33] Matt Rodin: Oh, right, you told me.

[8:34] Micaela Diamond: And I sang, I don't know, I sang like the first version that I had to get back on, or in the second or something like that. And I got off stage and I was like, am I gonna let this fucking define my the rest of my week? And I was like, no. And so I was like, oh, I had a growing moment here. You know what I mean? Like, I you just have to decide, like, it's gone. Honestly, like, why are we so fucking hard on ourselves?

[9:01] Matt Rodin: Well, the press I feel like, and I don't know, I feel like this is across the board though, but like, you know, when all of a sudden you're on a I don't want to say quote unquote, but really, like quote unquote Broadway stage, it feels as if the stakes are higher.

[9:16] Micaela Diamond: Yeah.

[9:17] Matt Rodin: Because I maybe they are like I don't re I don't know that they are, like it's just that like that's sort of imposed by based on I don't know. I've I've thought about this for so long, and I've always said that um like nothing has changed since high school. I mean, kind of. I mean, I went I did go to LaGuardia, so I went to a theater school and we did really big production. So for my life, it you know, and you were a little different. I was in New York, yeah. I grew up here.

[9:49] Micaela Diamond: Yeah, but there's just like the great things are the same. Like, I love the people, we love hanging out, there's fun drama to talk about. You like try and go to the hallway when your crush is there, like it's all there's mold in the dressing rooms, that's right. There's it's like dust everywhere, you're in a basement, you know what I mean? Like it's all yeah, and then you know, also I just feel like the stakes are the same in my body. Like, I am just as scared, I was just as scared doing like rising stars, which is LaGuardia's talent show, as going to sing at some like a Broadway event. Like in my body, I feel the same amount of nerves. Even when like Cher happened, it was the first like the first previews and opening night. It was like, yeah, I mean, probably like a little bit more like oh wow, my my idols are here, right? Right, right. But like m in my body, it felt the same. Like I loved it just as much and I was scared just as much and I couldn't wait.

[10:47] Micaela Diamond: You know you still having that idols thing, or has that has that barrier like disintegrated and now you're like, oh, I'm a part of it all? Or do you still feel like when there are people like when people come backstage or people that you know people there or whatever it is, or like working with Jason, like it's just like are you still like, oh my god, this is Of course, like still a little teenager inside that's like there's so much of my young self that comes out all the time and I love it. I I don't take those moments for granted because I think that they like are they make me a little bit more grounded. But even my dresser Bonnie, who dressed me for Cher too, I got to keep her. That's nice.

Um, she came backstage during previews and she was like, my friends are in the house today, and they're they told me they're sitting right next to Jason Robert Brown. And I looked at her and I was like, JRB is in the audience. And for like three full seconds, I forgot that I ever worked with Jason Robert Brown. I was just like, oh my god, JRB is in the audience. And I really do I was telling my stage manager the other day, there's Jason Robert Brown, there's Jason, and there's JRB. And all those people are very different in my head, which is so funny.

[12:03] Micaela Diamond: Um, but yeah, I have those moments all the time. Like Donna Murphy came to see City Center and I was like, I cannot tell you how much I love you. You know what I mean? Like it's an equal, the fangirl moments are are are equal. And I there's nothing like um your idol like liking your work. Kelly coming to see the show and saying, like, you are you are what I've always tried to be. I'm like, Kelly fucking O'Hara. How do you how do you process that? Like, you know what I mean? Like, are you able, are you at a point now where you're able to receive it?

[12:38] Matt Rodin: But like, yeah, I think I do, but it's it's just with like knowing there's so much gratitude because I have put so much of Kelly in my performance, and I know that. Right. Like part of this role is Nell when I played Nellie Forbush when I was 15. Like that is part, you know, we were just we're just an accumulation of all the roles we've kind of played. Yeah, which is why I feel like this is just the perfect moment to play this role. I wouldn't have been able to play it three years ago. Definitely not. Um yeah, those moments are just crazy, but in the best way. It's like, oh my God, thank you. Like they, you know, it's such a mutual, um, mutual moment of gratitude and respect.

[13:25] Micaela Diamond: Yeah, respect. I may be projecting this onto you, but from what I'm hearing you say, and from what I know of you, like, how do I want to phrase this? It's not as if hearing from people like that, or even just like random people that come and see the show and are moved by what your work. It doesn't feel like you need that. You don't need the affirmation, you don't need the validation because you've reached a point, and again, I'm totally projecting this that you've reached a point within yourself and your confidence in your own ability that that is like it feels like whipped cream on the cake. It's not necessarily the eggs and the flour and the sugar. Like you've done enough of that work, which again, I don't know if that's true, but it seems like as someone who knows you that like you have enough of that within yourself that of course it's fun and it's exciting and it's nice when people tell you nice things, but it's not like if you didn't hear those things that you would be okay.

[14:37] Micaela Diamond: Yeah. Well, first I love a food metaphor. But two, I know you did that for me, thank you. Um, but two, I think I really enjoy the validation and affirmation from my inner circle more than the people.

[14:55] Micaela Diamond: I mean, again, yeah, whipped cream, I love it. I love when people come up to me on the street, it fills me with so much joy, but it is whipped cream. Um I really care, like if we're being specific about this moment in my life.

[15:07] Micaela Diamond: Yeah, right. I really care about validation from Ben, Micaela, and my partner. Um that's top of the that's that's kind of what I need. Yep. Um, granted, like Micaela has left now because we're we've already opened. So um, but you know, I'm big, I've always been big on coaching everything and yeah, you are big on that.

[15:33] Micaela Diamond: Yeah, I really like help. And I had my acting teacher come during previews and just like make sure, but I those are the thing, those are the people I really need kind of words from.

[15:45] Micaela Diamond: Yeah. Um, yeah, and like when my acting teacher came, she was like, I have no notes for act two, but we need to work on it. Like there were some moments that that's from the scene. And I was like, yes, thank you.

[15:56] Micaela Diamond: Yeah. It's like the equal parts. Here is some things you can think about, and also you're doing great work.

[16:04] Micaela Diamond: Yeah, you like doing the work. I really do. It's kind of the foundation of why I love it, I think. It just comes from the theater company I did when I was little, kids theater.

[16:13] Micaela Diamond: I just I fucking loved them, and I loved doing the homework we had for shows where you had to like write a million pages of backstory. I mean, I hated it at the time, but of course, like you pick what worked for you, and you know, the character workbooks and tactics and objectives, and um it is still kind of the foundation of how I work today.

[16:35] Micaela Diamond: And because you didn't go to college, you're kind of getting that education through the city.

[16:41] Micaela Diamond: Through my coaches, yeah, exactly. Right.

[16:43] Matt Rodin: And like figuring out how I want to do it.

[16:46] Micaela Diamond: Right.

[16:46] Matt Rodin: Yeah. How do you want to do it?

[16:49] Micaela Diamond: God, still figuring out.

[16:51] Micaela Diamond: But I like that I can never answer that question.

[16:53] Micaela Diamond: Yeah, it'll always move.

[16:55] Micaela Diamond: Changing.

[16:56] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[16:56] Micaela Diamond: Every day.

[16:58] Micaela Diamond: Yeah, I mean, God, I love doing this show so much.

[17:02] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[17:03] Micaela Diamond: Like it's fun, like it's fun for you.

[17:04] Matt Rodin: Yeah, you're you're eating it.

[17:06] Micaela Diamond: Yeah, right, yeah, right. Exactly. Fucking love it.

[17:08] Micaela Diamond: Yeah. And Micaela is fucking genius and really gives me he never gives, like he, even though I've begged him at times, he does not give me a line reading.

[17:21] Micaela Diamond: And so he gives you kind of scenarios and ideas to think about, which make the long run feel exciting because you can just play in it inside of a scenario.

[17:33] Micaela Diamond: There's so many ways you can go.

[17:35] Matt Rodin: Is it changing every day?

[17:36] Micaela Diamond: Yeah, yeah.

[17:37] Micaela Diamond: I mean, Ben and I play. Like sometimes the jail scenes are fucking nasty, and other times I'm not looking, I can't look at him, and other times I'm really trying to be nice, and then I have the moment off stage that you maybe don't see that I come, you know what I mean?

[17:52] Micaela Diamond: It's just like it kind of is different all the time, but that's why I love it.

[17:56] Micaela Diamond: That's why I'm grateful for Micaela for to not for not giving us like these these hard lines, these hard boundaries so that we can just play inside of the world he created for us.

[18:09] Micaela Diamond: Umtrast from Share Show.

[18:14] Micaela Diamond: Oh my god. I was thinking about this the other day. It's so crazy.

[18:18] Micaela Diamond: I feel like I learned two very important things during Cher. One is that this is literal, but Cher herself um really changed her mind about things all the time.

[18:34] Micaela Diamond: Her stories changed. She would tell Rick Ellis, the writer something, and then like be like, that's not what I said, and like he would have a recording of it.

[18:42] Micaela Diamond: Like, I mean, look, I'm not on the I'm not on Cher anymore, so I can say whatever.

[18:46] Micaela Diamond: Yeah, no, but that's but it's like it was a real thing. Like there was just this constant back and forth of what her version of the story was.

[18:54] Micaela Diamond: And the big lesson from that was like Cher is not crazy, we are all like that.

[19:01] Matt Rodin: Right.

[19:01] Micaela Diamond: She's just famous and has had to deal with it on a crazy level.

[19:04] Matt Rodin: Yes.

[19:04] Micaela Diamond: But like we all have our own version of our water of fucking lives, were and are, and that is just a fact we have to live with.

[19:14] Micaela Diamond: And the second thing I learned from that show, which is more uh central to who I am now, was that I just don't want to have my body be a priority in my brain space um and how I discipline it.

[19:34] Micaela Diamond: And so it was. Yes, during Share, very much was.

[19:38] Micaela Diamond: And I don't regret doing that because it taught me the lesson.

[19:44] Matt Rodin: Right.

[19:44] Micaela Diamond: Um, and I probably would have had to learn that as a woman in this fucking world at some point.

[19:49] Micaela Diamond: So I'm glad I could get it out of the way at 19.

[19:52] Micaela Diamond: But um, so those two things were pretty instrumental in how I came into this process and how I'm exploring the character.

[19:59] Micaela Diamond: It's just like it's just so different.

[20:01] Micaela Diamond: Like the priorities are so different.

[20:05] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[20:05] Micaela Diamond: And I'm so grateful the priority can be the art and the work and not the noise or anything.

[20:13] Micaela Diamond: The bot yeah. It's just so relieving.

[20:17] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[20:17] Micaela Diamond: Um, and can be about Ben, you know, it can be about the, you know, like classic, but like in every scene the other person's more important.

[20:26] Micaela Diamond: And that is like how we go through the show.

[20:30] Micaela Diamond: It's like, how can I who am I around Ben? Who am I around the public?

[20:36] Micaela Diamond: And it's always about them, you know.

[20:38] Matt Rodin: Yeah, right.

[20:39] Micaela Diamond: Um, so I don't know, in general, it's just a different I I'm just a completely different person now because of those two big kind of changes in my life.

[20:49] Matt Rodin: Um did the body stuff lead to the food thing?

[20:54] Micaela Diamond: Um or were you always like a foodie?

[20:57] Micaela Diamond: I think it's subconsciously led to the food thing.

[20:59] Matt Rodin: Okay.

[21:00] Micaela Diamond: Um I you mean my culinary stuff.

[21:03] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[21:04] Micaela Diamond: I have always loved food.

[21:07] Micaela Diamond: Okay.

[21:07] Micaela Diamond: Um, I have not always loved cooking though.

[21:11] Micaela Diamond: And then when the pandemic hit, I started cooking like everyone else, but I was just like really in love with it and was frustrated that so much of my brain space was going to um regrets about food or feeling guilty about food or what I was making or can I eat the full thing?

[21:33] Micaela Diamond: Whatever, like constant, you know, the thoughts the noise.

[21:37] Micaela Diamond: And I didn't want the noise anymore.

[21:39] Micaela Diamond: And so I felt the only way to get rid of the noise was to um like actually eat and not have fear of food anymore.

[21:49] Micaela Diamond: And so I think I knew that going to culinary school, subconsciously I knew this, would put me in front of all of the food that I was afraid of.

[22:00] Micaela Diamond: Um and it worked.

[22:03] Micaela Diamond: I mean, uh it fucking worked.

[22:05] Micaela Diamond: Yeah, really.

[22:06] Micaela Diamond: And I am so thankful.

[22:08] Micaela Diamond: It was a really hard nine months.

[22:11] Micaela Diamond: I'm not gonna lie.

[22:12] Matt Rodin: Really?

[22:12] Micaela Diamond: Yeah.

[22:12] Micaela Diamond: It was like coming up against all this shit every day.

[22:15] Micaela Diamond: Right and having to work through it.

[22:17] Micaela Diamond: And then, you know, at a certain point for me was like a it was just it had to be a choice of like I um deserve to like love eating every single day.

[22:31] Micaela Diamond: And the the percent of like how much I think about food went from like probably 80% of my brain space to like 10.

[22:42] Matt Rodin: Whoa.

[22:43] Micaela Diamond: It was crazy.

[22:45] Matt Rodin: But that's interesting because I feel like you still think about food a lot.

[22:50] Micaela Diamond: I think, yeah, yeah.

[22:51] Micaela Diamond: How much I love it.

[22:52] Micaela Diamond: But it's not yeah, yeah, and and cooking and meals and like totally, totally, but it's just not fear-based or regret based or guilt based or what can I eat tomorrow if I ate today?

[23:03] Micaela Diamond: Like, none of that.

[23:04] Micaela Diamond: None of that.

[23:04] Micaela Diamond: No, or calorie can, like, none of it.

[23:06] Micaela Diamond: It's just such a fucking waste of the thing.

[23:08] Micaela Diamond: It's like a respect for food.

[23:09] Micaela Diamond: Yeah, yeah.

[23:10] Micaela Diamond: And I'm finally at the point now where um I don't need everyone to think about it the same way I do.

[23:17] Micaela Diamond: Which was a big part of the the journey.

[23:19] Micaela Diamond: There was interesting.

[23:20] Micaela Diamond: There was a while where I was like, everyone must go on this journey with like everyone needs to not feel the guilt.

[23:27] Micaela Diamond: Everyone needs it's like, God, everyone's just going through their own shit.

[23:30] Matt Rodin: Yeah, right.

[23:30] Micaela Diamond: And I can really only be in in charge of my own thoughts.

[23:34] Micaela Diamond: But I have to say I've I've lost some I've lost a friendship because I didn't want to be around someone who thought about it really differently from me.

[23:44] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[23:44] Micaela Diamond: And I don't know, you know, I I don't know who was right or who was wrong or what version of the story she's telling, whatever.

[23:52] Micaela Diamond: But I made the choice to just be like, God, I don't want to be around someone who disciplines their body that way.

[23:59] Matt Rodin: Right.

[24:00] Micaela Diamond: And whether I can do that, because we can be friends with people who are very different from ourselves.

[24:06] Micaela Diamond: But it's something I acknowledge that I'm like, God, I I really struggled with that for a second.

[24:12] Matt Rodin: That's really that's really powerful.

[24:14] Micaela Diamond: That's like really wild.

[24:15] Micaela Diamond: And what a crazy I was thinking like I feel like it's a lot like re like in relationships that happens too.

[24:22] Matt Rodin: Always where it's like totally Yes, because all of a sudden you're with somebody and all of I my experience was I ha I started I was dating Sam and I had this partner and all of a sudden all the like shit came up and it wasn't about him.

[24:44] Micaela Diamond: Even though in I feels like in my like the front of my brain, I have no idea if this is actually the science, but like felt like in the front of my brain it was all about him, but in the back of my brain, it was like, no, honey, like this is your shit that you need to face at some point.

[24:59] Micaela Diamond: And either you're gonna face it now and work through it with this person who actually, and I'm lucky enough that like wanted to work through it with me and was willing to like be patient and hold space.

[25:09] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[25:10] Micaela Diamond: Or I could say, peace out, I'm done.

[25:14] Micaela Diamond: And I'll like you said, at some point, you are gonna have to deal with this thing.

[25:21] Micaela Diamond: Well, to me, it was like this game-changing sentence that kind of changed the way I saw everything was I think like myself.

[25:29] Micaela Diamond: I am thinking like myself. Meaning, and this was, you know, the the it is the cause of many relationships endings, I think, is that all I wanted was for my ex to think like me.

[25:45] Micaela Diamond: Why wouldn't you do it the way I am doing it? Why do you have so much trouble doing this? Why can't I wanna change you to think like me?

[25:54] Micaela Diamond: Yeah, right. Because my way is the right way the right way.

[26:01] Micaela Diamond: Um, so that it's it was a good moment for me to be like, oh, you I guess you don't have you you will never think like me.

[26:12] Micaela Diamond: Like we literally are direct people.

[26:14] Micaela Diamond: Don't know everything.

[26:15] Matt Rodin: No, yeah, that's right.

[26:16] Micaela Diamond: You don't like your way isn't the right way, it's just your way.

[26:20] Micaela Diamond: It's just mine.

[26:21] Micaela Diamond: That's right.

[26:22] Micaela Diamond: That's right.

[26:22] Matt Rodin: But that was a really game-changing kind of sentence that came into my life after my breakup.

[26:30] Micaela Diamond: That you I think like myself.

[26:33] Micaela Diamond: Yeah.

[26:33] Micaela Diamond: And no one has to think like me, and no one ever will.

[26:37] Micaela Diamond: And um, you know, I gotta find a partner who it's easier um to love the way they think.

[26:46] Micaela Diamond: How can I love the way my partner thinks differently from me?

[26:50] Matt Rodin: Oh my god.

[26:51] Micaela Diamond: Thank God.

[26:51] Micaela Diamond: Like my sheets would never get washed.

[26:54] Micaela Diamond: Like I would never like and don't get me wrong, like it comes up where I'm like, it's fine.

[27:00] Micaela Diamond: Like, we don't need to change.

[27:01] Matt Rodin: But thank God.

[27:02] Micaela Diamond: But thank gods to wash.

[27:04] Micaela Diamond: Yeah, because then I get in the bed and I'm like, yeah, of course it's nice.

[27:04] Micaela Diamond: It's nice.

[27:07] Micaela Diamond: Like it's nice.

[27:08] Micaela Diamond: I love clean sheets.

[27:09] Micaela Diamond: You know, I love I didn't I didn't know that, you know.

[27:12] Micaela Diamond: But especially even with food, like I feel like, you know, and this is no no Tino shade to people that think this way.

[27:19] Micaela Diamond: I grew up in with an idea that food was sustenance.

[27:24] Micaela Diamond: It was just like you had to have your meals, yeah, and it was just for energy.

[27:31] Micaela Diamond: It wasn't to be savored, it wasn't, you know, food was good, but it was like it was just food.

[27:37] Micaela Diamond: It wasn't there was no there was nothing.

[27:39] Micaela Diamond: There was no respect for it.

[27:40] Micaela Diamond: No, yeah.

[27:41] Micaela Diamond: No respect for it.

[27:41] Micaela Diamond: That's exactly the right way to say it.

[27:43] Micaela Diamond: And I've I'm really thankful that I ended up in a partnership with somebody who like has a deep respect for food and a really a deep love for food that it's like I had never eaten asparagus.

[27:43] Micaela Diamond: Like I had never eaten olives, I had never really eaten broccoli, I had never really eaten garlic.

[28:02] Micaela Diamond: Like there's so many seasonings that I'd never even gone near.

[28:05] Micaela Diamond: I was afraid of mayo.

[28:07] Micaela Diamond: Like I wouldn't touch mustard.

[28:09] Micaela Diamond: Like the list is very long.

[28:11] Micaela Diamond: The whole podcast is just you listen to the biggest.

[28:13] Micaela Diamond: My all the foods I was yeah, but I mean the fact that I am not, I mean, literally, we talked about it this weekend.

[28:17] Micaela Diamond: Like, I'm not afraid of mayo anymore.

[28:19] Micaela Diamond: Crazy.

[28:20] Micaela Diamond: I was It's just oil and eggs.

[28:22] Matt Rodin: But thank you.

[28:23] Micaela Diamond: But if Mayo touched my plate, I would not eat the food on the plate.

[28:27] Micaela Diamond: Wow.

[28:28] Micaela Diamond: Like that's how crazy I was.

[28:30] Micaela Diamond: Even and I'm telling you, like, even like seven months ago, eight months ago, like I got a wrap from Jimmy John.

[28:36] Micaela Diamond: I got a sandwich from Jimmy John's.

[28:38] Micaela Diamond: Which I miss Jimmy John's.

[28:40] Micaela Diamond: Um that had mayo on it.

[28:42] Micaela Diamond: And I was like, well, I can't go in there and reorder.

[28:45] Micaela Diamond: Like, I have to force myself to like swallow and eat this thing.

[28:48] Micaela Diamond: And I sat in the car with Sam and I was just like shoveling it because I was like, I have to, out of spite.

[28:48] Micaela Diamond: I was like, I have to eat this.

[28:54] Micaela Diamond: I have to, and but there were that was like the start of a turning point where it was.

[28:58] Micaela Diamond: See what I mean? When you like eat, just eat the fucking pasta.

[29:02] Micaela Diamond: You know what I mean? Eat the pizza.

[29:03] Micaela Diamond: It's like worth every love.

[29:06] Micaela Diamond: Pasta.

[29:07] Micaela Diamond: So I knew isn't it delicious?

[29:24] Micaela Diamond: I had like a great night and went by myself to the restaurant I used to work at, Vicks down in Soho and had like the beautiful fried onions and the cacho and the gelato by myself.

[29:35] Micaela Diamond: And it was just like perfect night. I'm so fucking glad that you are at that. I'm just like me too. Me too. And again, it's like hard to be around people who don't love it as much as me now. You know what I mean? Like, that's the kind of battle. That's like where I'm at now. I'm like, but like, don't you want to love everything you put in?

[29:57] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[29:57] Micaela Diamond: I found that like I something that I always something that I always like liked or I always enjoyed doing was um how do I explain this? Like doing things that other people loved in the sense that if someone like loved rap music and really had like a deep love for it, I could enjoy it through them.

[30:25] Matt Rodin: I see, yeah, sure.

[30:26] Micaela Diamond: Where I was like, oh, this isn't for me. You get off on somebody else's joy.

[30:30] Matt Rodin: Yeah, but I'm like, oh, I see how this works for you. And when I and when someone can explain it, that's even better. When someone can like say, oh, this thing and this thing and this thing, like, because and similar, I think this is very similar. I I'm thinking about what was that restaurant we went to in DC?

[30:47] Matt Rodin: The um Oh, uh it was four laws of causa.

[30:50] Micaela Diamond: Uh-huh. Um, I'm I think about that all the time. We had the best time. I think about that all the time because, and I use this example so much, but I think it was so good. Like the fact that he came over, the chef came over and explained every ingredient, where the ingredient came from, how it was used, why it was used, like the context. What it was like gonna taste like the wines were like a mix of different things. It was so the context amplified the whole thing.

[31:21] Matt Rodin: And it would have been delicious, period, if they hadn't told us anything, would have been like, oh, this is really good.

[31:26] Micaela Diamond: But it's an experience. That's why I love eating with people. Yeah, it forms like a memory, and that is like a core memory of the money. That's a core memory for me for sure. That is a core memory, like so hard. But I I think the other piece about it is I mean, obviously you can enjoy food on your own, but and I know you do, you're a person that like you love cooking for yourself and making stuff for yourself that's delicious. But I also think you're right that like one of the pieces of the blue blue zone diet, you know, the Mediterranean thing that people have lived very long is community is like being with huge other people.

[32:00] Matt Rodin: That's why I started Supper Club.

[32:02] Micaela Diamond: I just love watching people gather deliberately.

[32:06] Matt Rodin: Intentionally.

[32:07] Micaela Diamond: Yeah, we both have talked about this a lot because you have your things too. But it's like there's something magical that happens like in the uncomfortable awkwardness of doing it for a reason.

[32:19] Matt Rodin: Wow.

[32:19] Micaela Diamond: You know what I mean?

[32:20] Matt Rodin: Yeah, the uncomfortable awkwardness of doing it for a reason and acknowledging it.

[32:24] Micaela Diamond: That's what I mean. Like, I don't hide the fact that there's a theme or that everyone is gonna make a toast, or that everyone, you know what I mean? Like there's always people are always like, I don't want to make a toast. And it's like but then something flips.

[32:39] Matt Rodin: Yeah, and then you kind of want to go, and like the quietest person always has the best fucking thing to say.

[32:44] Micaela Diamond: And I mean, I'm with someone right now who Sky is so thoughtful in terms of everything he says. He doesn't really say anything that he hasn't thought through or means, and I'm the opposite. I just could talk all fucking day. I could talk about a process, like figure out what I'm feeling, I don't know what I'm feeling, like But you can talk through it.

[33:05] Matt Rodin: I I talk through it, and he, you know, is both both of his parents are journalists and and really like write what they mean, I think. And he always has these amazing things to say, but it's hard to cut through noise when most people I think are like us who just can talk, talk, talk, talk, talk.

[33:23] Micaela Diamond: Yeah.

[33:24] Matt Rodin: And Sky's like, well, I have a gem.

[33:26] Micaela Diamond: I mean, he doesn't think this, but he'll he'll have like a gem of a sentence, but it's hard for him to like cut in because he he's not just like going on and on and on, he has like a thought that is formed. And that's kind of what why Supper Club's cool is because everyone at that table, no matter what, will be able to speak what they have thought about, whether they thought about it for two minutes or thought about it for 30 seconds or whatever. But it's like it's cool that um you see everybody get the chance because the it at dinner parties often there's someone who doesn't talk, yeah, and leaves being like, I kind of had a thing to say, but didn't. And you you create you force I force that, yeah.

[34:09] Matt Rodin: Right.

[34:09] Micaela Diamond: Everyone has the opportunity. I also the type of person, I don't know if you're like this or Sky's like this, like I'm the type of person, and you know this about me. When I'm having fun, I say, like I will call attention to the fact that I'm like this.

[34:24] Matt Rodin: You do that.

[34:25] Micaela Diamond: This is fun. I'm having so much fun right now. Because, and again, it's the same thing that we're talking about. Like, I like the acknowledg because I feel like when you acknowledge something like that, it's the same thing of like gathering with intention. When you just like say the thing, yeah, then there something something changes in the energy of the I love this moment, yeah.

[34:46] Matt Rodin: That's so beautiful.

[34:47] Micaela Diamond: I know I have clocked that you've done that, but I didn't realize it was like such an intentional. Remember that I love that fun. I'd be like we're fun. I'm like, remember I'll be like, This is that was like our thing all through DC. We're fun. This is fun. This is fun, but I really I do. I think there's like really there's gotta be some science to that that. That like there's something about it that the acknowledgement brings you present, and I also think it happens in the other direction too. Where like if something's uncomfortable, I know there's power in being like, I'm feeling uncomfortable right now.

[35:18] Matt Rodin: Oh, totally.

[35:20] Micaela Diamond: Totally. And how many times? I mean, not to get, I don't know if you know where I'm going with this, but how many times are you like having sex and you could either say here's what I'm feeling, or you just let it go.

[35:33] Matt Rodin: Right.

[35:33] Micaela Diamond: And it's a total fucking lose lose when you don't say anything.

[35:37] Matt Rodin: Yes.

[35:37] Micaela Diamond: But if you say something. There's always a lesson and like always a beautiful like coming together.

[35:42] Matt Rodin: Yes.

[35:43] Micaela Diamond: Of like, oh my God. But that's in sex. That's in relationships. Yes. That's in friendships. That's in a rehearsal process. Like to me, it across the board, like saying the thing, which is a thing we talk about in men's group all the time, saying the thing is invaluable. I remember I texted Micaela one night because he came up to me the day we were frozen and gave me like seven notes. He was like, here are some big idea notes. And I was like, holy fucking shit. And I I just like was kind of disassociating when he was telling me because I was like, oh my God. And then I texted him that night and I was like, I think I need some validation. I'm feeling so like, is it working? Because I am you just gave me like huge ideas.

[36:32] Matt Rodin: Right.

[36:33] Micaela Diamond: And then he did. You know what I mean? It was like all I needed to just, I just needed to like air it. Yeah. It wasn't even that he needed to really give me validation. I just needed to be like, I'm feeling insecure.

[36:44] Matt Rodin: Right.

[36:45] Micaela Diamond: You just need to say that. But listen, that's also a lesson in like asking for what you need.

[36:48] Matt Rodin: Yeah, totally.

[36:49] Micaela Diamond: And which is again another big relationship thing. You're pretty good at that. You are.

[36:53] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[36:54] Micaela Diamond: I have gotten a lot better at being like I don't, I don't have secrets.

[36:59] Matt Rodin: Yeah, you don't.

[37:00] Micaela Diamond: No.

[37:00] Matt Rodin: I don't like it.

[37:01] Micaela Diamond: Yeah, you can't hide shit.

[37:02] Matt Rodin: No.

[37:02] Micaela Diamond: You are like.

[37:03] Matt Rodin: Honestly, I yeah.

[37:06] Micaela Diamond: No, no, no, no, no. I mean, but listen, it's it that's it's powerful. Cause I I feel like, especially in my relationship, it's been the biggest lesson of being able to say, like, I need to vent, and I don't want your advice. I don't want your I just need you to most of the time, all I want is for someone to say, I hear you. That's it.

[37:25] Matt Rodin: Oh my god.

[37:26] Micaela Diamond: And I'm like, Sky, give me a solution. Which but but but but I'm like, but I always trust that I'm like, if you and a lot of times I'll even ask him, I'll be like, are you wanting feedback? Are you wanting a solution or you just want me to listen?

[37:28] Matt Rodin: So helpful.

[37:28] Micaela Diamond: And a lot of times it's like, I just need to just say it out loud. Yeah. I'm like, okay. And then if you need a solution or you want feedback, you can ask for that. Yeah. And I'm happy to give that. But I also grew up w in a world where like I was given feedback without asking for it. Like I was get people, people had given me their opinions without me asking for it.

[38:02] Matt Rodin: So interesting.

[38:03] Micaela Diamond: Do you know what I'm saying?

[38:04] Matt Rodin: Yeah, that was so not my childhood.

[38:06] Micaela Diamond: That was that was my full childhood. Where it was like, I'm gonna give you my opinion whether you like it or not.

[38:11] Matt Rodin: Which is I I don't know, but it's but it what it was not easy to swallow as a kid. And as an adult too, it's not easy to swallow. Like, yeah, I mean, that's like the op I, when I, you know, came out to my mom, I was like, you know, I've been hooking up with gap, you know, like all the things and she was like, she was like, uh her the only thing she said we were driving, and she said to me, if I was in your generation, I'd be queer too. That was it.

[38:37] Micaela Diamond: And I was like, best response award ever. You know what I mean? Like that it's just so brilliant. Because it's it didn't like negate anything. No, it didn't make it awkward. Like she thought about it in her shoe. You know, it was like brilliant. It was just, I loved that moment.

[38:53] Matt Rodin: Everyone.

[38:54] Micaela Diamond: Everyone. And I feel like if you're not, you're you're suffocating some part of yourself. Like you're not giving yourself the freedom. I do think there are people who really have no desire. But um yeah, like, of course, everyone. But I'm I guess what I'm talking about is like guys that are like, oh no way. Completely ever kiss a guy, like, no way. It's absolutely insane.

[39:20] Matt Rodin: Which is the very extreme of the end of the spectrum.

[39:22] Micaela Diamond: But I'm like, you can't even acknowledge that that guy's like a good looking guy. I assume all your listeners agree with us. Can you imagine if you had like a really straight white guy like that?

[39:30] Matt Rodin: Sometimes my brother sometimes my brother listens and he's a really straight white guy.

[39:33] Micaela Diamond: Really? But but I will say.

[39:37] Matt Rodin: No, but you know what though, like, but I it's but I think also that's been like so uh powerful and helpful for me to have him in my life. Um, because I think that perspective's important. My big fear as a kid, um, this is my podcast now. Um, my big What's your biggest fear? My biggest fear as a kid when it came to relationships was like when I kept when I when I thought about having a boyfriend before I was out, even after I came out, like in college, my biggest fear was that my brother and my dad would not be able to hang out with my partner.

[40:18] Micaela Diamond: Like that was my truly like my biggest fear when it came to relationships. And when the time came for Sam to like meet my family, I was not worried at all. But I realized much later that I was like, why was I worried I should have worried about my mom? Like it was a it like this person needs to get along. Forget about my dad. This person needs to get along with my mom. And as long as they get along, it's all good. But all that to say, like, you know, watching we Sam and I spent 14 months living with my family in the pandemic, which is crazy. The greatest gift that we were ever given. It was horrible, but it and hard, but it was beautiful and wonderful. It was every adjective because I got to watch and be a part of my brother and my dad like fall in love with my partner who is also a man. Like, and love our love, like love that we love each other. Like it just became a normal thing.

[41:22] Matt Rodin: And I'm lucky that my parents were never my brother. When I came out to my brother, he was like, okay. Is there anything else you want to tell me? I was like, no, he's like, okay. Like that was that was the whole thing. I thought it was gonna be this big to-do, but to have now him and Sam have their own relationship. He's texting my dad, my brother on the side. He doesn't, you know what I mean? Like they call him before they call me.

[41:44] Micaela Diamond: Yeah. Those I I just yeah, I don't know. I I love, I love the fact that I I just, I don't know, I love being queer.

[41:53] Matt Rodin: I love me too.

[41:54] Micaela Diamond: Being queer so much. Isn't that nice?

[41:57] Matt Rodin: Oh my god.

[41:57] Micaela Diamond: And I feel, I don't know if that's how you identify. That's how I identify. I just love to me, it feels like so overarching. It feels like more than just my sexuality.

[42:07] Matt Rodin: I know.

[42:08] Micaela Diamond: I came out as bi, and then I think I don't know why it kind of changed, but I just felt like that encapsulated everything.

[42:16] Matt Rodin: Right.

[42:16] Micaela Diamond: Yeah, it's like more of an identity. Then right, then a sexuality. Yeah. Which again, and that's like especially because I'm in a straight presenting relationship, and it feels like if I was bi, it would be like, well, I'm on the the straight side of bi. It's like it feels weird, whereas queer feels like it encapsulates who I am, even if I'm in a relationship with a heterosexual relationship.

[42:41] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[42:42] Micaela Diamond: You know? Like I am still just as queer with Sky.

[42:49] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[42:49] Micaela Diamond: Yeah, you can talk about which is cool. The girls you think are hot.

[42:53] Matt Rodin: Oh, do we ever it's okay?

[42:58] Micaela Diamond: We do too. We talk about we talk about girls we think are hot, we talk about the guys that are hot. Girlies, the girlies who think you're hot. And we talk about Broadway. That's the other thing. We we we geek out. Like we we geek out so hard.

[43:07] Matt Rodin: You do too.

[43:11] Micaela Diamond: I you know what's so funny. I always thought I wanted to be with like a I don't know why. I just thought I had to be with like basically a straight guy.

[43:18] Matt Rodin: Yeah, totally.

[43:18] Micaela Diamond: I was like, I want to be with a straight guy, which I think is probably like some internalized homophobia. I love being with a little musical theater.

[43:26] Matt Rodin: Oh my god, I think old Red Hills more than me. He knows the entirety of the Kimberly Kimbo soundtrack, like and the dances. I'm like, what are you doing?

[43:35] Micaela Diamond: But isn't it fun to like geek out? Like I love it. I remember the first time we like geeked out about like wicked together, and I was like, oh, this is we can like sing rent in our apartment. Like we both can sing along. Like it's fun.

[43:45] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[43:46] Micaela Diamond: I mean, there's nothing like it. Everybody's like, I'm never dating an actor. I'm like, I'm only dating actors. I love it.

[43:50] Matt Rodin: I've like never said that in my life.

[43:53] Micaela Diamond: Really? No, I love it. And I broke up with my ex who was an actor and never said that. Like I never ever It wasn't that piece of it. No, I loved sharing music. I loved sharing our love for theater and going to see plays. Right. I loved that. Yeah. That was not at all. I think the difference for me is I think, I mean, this obviously wouldn't obviously be the case, but if I was dating an actor, there's a chance that we would be going in for the same things.

[44:23] Micaela Diamond: And like when I hear about that happening, when like couples are both going in for the same roles or they're going, I'm like, that is like a no for me.

[44:30] Matt Rodin: This is a fascinating conversation.

[44:32] Micaela Diamond: I've talked to Erica about this a lot too, but it's interesting. I don't know how people do it who are in direct competition either.

[44:38] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[44:39] Micaela Diamond: I'm sure that would be really hard. Um, what's lovely though is Skye gets off on my success and my happiness for theater. Like he cannot fathom my year. Like he is so excited every moment. Like, and I, it's like real. Like it's, I can see it.

[45:00] Matt Rodin: Right.

[45:01] Micaela Diamond: You know? Um, I don't think everybody is like that.

[45:05] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[45:05] Micaela Diamond: I think that there is some. Can you imagine like having to explain to somebody you're like, so this is my opening night. Like it's a big fucking deal.

[45:12] Matt Rodin: No.

[45:12] Micaela Diamond: Or like frozen. You're like, we're frozen. Which means what is, yeah, no, boring. I don't want to fucking talk about that. Right. I just want somebody to know. Get it.

[45:20] Matt Rodin: Um, but I will say it is interesting being, it's the idea of us as artists. Uh and self-taping and giving notes and judging each other's art, not like the fun or the happiness we feel from doing it. That is easy. But that it's interesting because in any other relationship, you actually don't give a shit about how good they are at their job.

[45:53] Micaela Diamond: Huh.

[45:54] Matt Rodin: So, like, like my mom, like, I don't know if she's good at payroll at a preschool.

[46:01] Micaela Diamond: Right.

[46:01] Matt Rodin: Like, couldn't care less if she's good or bad or amazing at it. Like, it just has nothing to do with my life.

[46:08] Micaela Diamond: Right.

[46:09] Matt Rodin: And I think that the more I remember.

[46:12] Micaela Diamond: You're not gonna give her tips or advice or guidance or anything.

[46:14] Matt Rodin: No, I just have no stake in it.

[46:16] Micaela Diamond: Right.

[46:16] Matt Rodin: And for some reason, actors who date actors, we do have stake in the art that the other one is putting out, which is something I have not yet figured out how to articulate and have to kind of work through.

[46:31] Micaela Diamond: Because um, like luckily I'm in PARADE. So Skye is like, I love the art you're putting out. Right. Like this is beautiful. Right. But it is tricky if I'm doing like some shit.

[46:44] Matt Rodin: Well, what if you were bad?

[46:46] Micaela Diamond: Well, it's that's the thing. It's like it doesn't matter if I was bad. It wouldn't matter in a different relationship. Like, do you know what I'm saying?

[46:55] Matt Rodin: Yes, I do, yes.

[46:56] Micaela Diamond: To some level, like again, my mom is not singing at her job, but it's like I don't care about that. Whereas why do I care how good my partner's self-tape is? Why can't they just do the self-tape and I don't have to care about it? But I feel stake in their talent.

[47:15] Matt Rodin: Well, and also, I and I'm see, I let me wanna know if this is connected. You've seen Skye work before. You've seen him perform. Was there any, oh my ex. I mean, I'm not just talking about it.

[47:26] Micaela Diamond: But I know, but I'm just saying, like, was there fear in you the first time that you went to go see him on stage? Because you're like, oh my God, what if he's—

[47:30] Micaela Diamond: Of course in high school. My first, my first like, you know, crash in high school, we played Jean Valjean, I was Fantine. Like, this is classic. Like, and I was like, you are good tonight. Or like he would be pitchy, and I'd be like, oh, you know what I mean? Like, I mean, he was never pitchy. Uh, he's not listening to this, but whatever. You know what I mean? Like, uh, this is a dumb example. But like there, yes, I do feel like respect. I'm saying like you respect his art, and so there's like, oh, I care about what you think of what I'm doing, and I care about what you're doing.

[48:04] Matt Rodin: That's right.

[48:04] Micaela Diamond: And I don't know if that's codependent. I don't know if that's, I don't know. I'm just, that's definitely a thing I'm exploring in my own kind of psyche of like how much stake do I want to have in his performances and his talent and his stories he wants to tell, etc.

[48:25] Matt Rodin: And how much do you value what he gives, like the feedback he gives you?

[48:30] Micaela Diamond: That's what I'm navigating. Totally. Is like when I'm, when we're, I'm doing self-tapes or whatever, is like when Sam gives me a note or a thought, I have to decide within myself, like, do I agree?

[48:42] Matt Rodin: Totally, or do I want to take the note? Or am I like, actually, no, I like what I'm doing more than that.

[48:47] Micaela Diamond: I think it's just gonna be this ever, ever changing.

[48:49] Matt Rodin: Always, always, always, always, always, always.

[48:51] Micaela Diamond: But his perspective is he's an agent, so his perspective is incredibly unique. Like it, that's I have to always keep that in my mind that like that's his perspective. And I have said to him, I literally cannot tell you how many times I've been like, I need you to tell me if I'm insane and that like I shouldn't be doing this, and I'm terrible and I'm not talented, and if I need to just like pick a new career path, like I need you to just tell me. And he's like, I don't understand. Like you, you've booked, like it's not a, like you have all the evidence you could possibly need that like you're good enough to work. Like why do you need my validation? I'm like, I would just, I just respect you enough that I would hope that you would tell me if I fucking sucked.

[49:32] Matt Rodin: And it was like, would you? Like, would you want that? I don't know.

[49:35] Micaela Diamond: I don't know. Because I guess I'm, the reason I say that is because I see people.

[49:41] Matt Rodin: Yeah, yeah.

[49:42] Micaela Diamond: You see other people fucking struggle busing and being like, you should just get off the bus.

[49:47] Matt Rodin: That is exactly what, that's right.

[49:49] Micaela Diamond: And I, and I don't know, you don't want to be the one on the struggle bus.

[49:52] Matt Rodin: No.

[49:52] Micaela Diamond: Not knowing that everybody else is thinking about you like that.

[49:55] Matt Rodin: Yes.

[49:56] Micaela Diamond: They're not. I, and I'm thrilled that they're not. But that I think is my fear. There's a fear there that it's like, oh, I'm delusional and no one's telling. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm certainly delusional, but for sure.

[50:09] Matt Rodin: Oh, yeah, or I think, I think you have to be like a little bit delusional too.

[50:14] Micaela Diamond: Oh, yeah, of course.

[50:15] Matt Rodin: Right?

[50:16] Micaela Diamond: Of course. We're like banking on a break in our voice.

[50:22] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[50:23] Micaela Diamond: To bring that out.

[50:24] Matt Rodin: Exactly.

[50:25] Micaela Diamond: Yeah. You're like, it's crazy. I'm gonna lean into my brain.

[50:27] Matt Rodin: It's totally crazy.

[50:28] Micaela Diamond: It is, you know?

[50:30] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[50:31] Micaela Diamond: The other crazy thing is like our lives could change tomorrow. Um, and you would have all the validation you would need. It, it just makes no sense. It's like there's so much luck. Um, like I've gotten so lucky. Like, I think about that, I'm just like, God, I was like born the right month. Like, it's just crazy.

[50:50] Matt Rodin: Quite literally.

[50:51] Micaela Diamond: You know what I mean? Like, yes, and you just don't know because there was someone that was at our dinner party that I was at, which was Supper Club? Supper Club, which was uh also a core memory for me. Um, I should say that was before like, you know, 11:30 when we've had, when the bottles of wine, like we crossed a certain threshold. There was somebody there that night who I'm almost certain is not gonna listen to this, who thought they were gonna have the biggest year of their lives.

[51:21] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[51:22] Micaela Diamond: Movie, Broadway show. It was like all the, all of the on paper, it was like everything was lining up, and it was like, oh, this is my moment. And it wasn't.

[51:34] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[51:35] Micaela Diamond: And it's hard. And so it, it just reminds me of what you're saying that like you just, it's just, you just don't know. You just don't know. And you can see people at these pinnacles, and we are all just actually on the same road. Trying to figure it the fuck out.

[51:51] Matt Rodin: Yeah, yeah.

[51:52] Micaela Diamond: And at any moment, you know, I was trying to explain to my mom this at one point that I was like, sure, I could have this show come in and I can book a lead role and I can get nominated for a Tony, etc., etc. And then or nothing, or you can be in room.

[52:07] Matt Rodin: Oh my god.

[52:08] Micaela Diamond: And get canceled in, you close in rehearsal. And you're a Tony award winner. Like, like it's crazy. There's just no guarantees. Yeah. You know? So that's why I'm such a big fan of being like, I'm enjoying this.

[52:23] Matt Rodin: Yes.

[52:24] Micaela Diamond: Because I, if I can get present, if I can just get present and be like, oh, I'm grateful for whatever this is right now.

[52:29] Matt Rodin: That's kind of where I am too.

[52:31] Micaela Diamond: Like there's a lot of noise. And I know that was something you were, you said like a couple weeks ago.

[52:36] Matt Rodin: Nice.

[52:37] Micaela Diamond: Like I, it's overwhelming, you know. I all at once kind of want to disassociate from the noise and also hear it and take it in. Um, so I'm kind of trying to find that balance. But at the end of it, it's like the only way I can just find myself is like to just be present and like act, like do what I love. Like every night I get to like go to a little theater and like sit in my dressing room and love it. You know what I mean? It's like because it's not guaranteed that we will have a show tomorrow. You know what I mean? It's just not right.

[53:11] Matt Rodin: Um, I'm not that, you know, I don't say that every day, but it is, it is something I think about. Like I just need to live as big as I can right now in this moment because who knows?

[53:17] Micaela Diamond: Who knows?

[53:26] Matt Rodin: Because it, you were overwhelmed. It was, there was a lot coming into this.

[53:30] Micaela Diamond: I was over, yeah, I was, I, I also think 'cause you said City Center was like a flash in the pan, it was really fun. It was like we're doing this for two weeks, like yeah, and everyone loved it. Right. And I think I just felt the pressure. I, I, you know, was in a little bit of a delusional state of, of like, can I still sing it? Like, is it still good? Like now that the hype is there, are people still gonna like it? I mean, there's so many like things that happen when you like do something again that was loved. Um, and they did. They loved it. I don't know, I just like want to keep doing what I love, like just trying to both find the, um, like find the friends who kind of keep me grounded and who can celebrate me without it feeling like noise.

[54:21] Matt Rodin: Um and also just like find myself within that too.

[54:25] Micaela Diamond: Yeah, I think that's the most important.

[54:27] Matt Rodin: Yeah, is like having, uh I've talked to a lot of people about this about having a life that you like.

[54:33] Micaela Diamond: Yeah.

[54:33] Matt Rodin: Beyond outside of the job that like let's say because I mean I, correct me if I'm wrong though, like even before you were doing this, like you were enjoying your life.

[54:44] Micaela Diamond: I loved, yeah, I've, yeah, I love my life. You know, like I love cooking, not friendly and acting for a while, yeah.

[54:54] Matt Rodin: Yeah, yeah, and going to school and starting Supper Club and cooking at Harvest Moon.

[55:00] Micaela Diamond: Yeah.

[55:01] Matt Rodin: I feel like I've lived a lot of lives.

[55:02] Micaela Diamond: I travel a lot.

[55:03] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[55:04] Micaela Diamond: It's like to me, I think that's like having that foundation is like the most necessary.

[55:12] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[55:13] Micaela Diamond: Yeah, and it makes me a better actor.

[55:15] Matt Rodin: Of course.

[55:16] Micaela Diamond: And your worth, your self-worth and your identity isn't tied up in this ephemeral thing.

[55:24] Matt Rodin: Right.

[55:25] Micaela Diamond: That's beautiful and we love with all of our hearts, but it's not. Yeah, that feels like pinnacles and valley, you know, it's just all confusing. But having the friends and the, and lucky, luckily we have partners and family.

[55:39] Matt Rodin: I know your mom.

[55:41] Micaela Diamond: Yeah, special.

[55:43] Matt Rodin: That is wild.

[55:44] Micaela Diamond: I know we were talking about this before we started recording. It's like I'm, I was, she, Matt was like, so are you getting your own place? And I was like, no, I love living with my mom. She does my laundry, like she, she goes about, she gets the gross, like she does some dishes. But like that's so like ideal.

[56:03] Matt Rodin: Lucky.

[56:03] Micaela Diamond: Yeah. You know? And I know, you know that. I'm not, I, I know like you're not, that doesn't, you won't take it for granted.

[56:10] Matt Rodin: No, not at all.

[56:12] Micaela Diamond: I know so many people don't have that.

[56:13] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[56:14] Micaela Diamond: Yeah.

[56:16] Matt Rodin: You're great.

[56:21] Micaela Diamond: In the show, sure, whatever. But you're, I, I like you. We're fun.

[56:27] Matt Rodin: I yeah, we're fun.

[56:28] Micaela Diamond: We're fun.

[56:29] Matt Rodin: Like I, I feel, I feel in the spirit of that, I feel very lucky to be your friend because I feel like no matter what happens in my life, you will, you'll, you support me.

[56:50] Micaela Diamond: Yeah.

[56:51] Matt Rodin: Like, you know what I mean? Like I feel like see-through around you in the best way.

[56:55] Micaela Diamond: That's such a good, have you ever said that before? That's such a good way of putting it.

[56:57] Matt Rodin: I feel see-through.

[57:01] Micaela Diamond: Yeah.

[57:01] Matt Rodin: Right.

[57:02] Micaela Diamond: But in the good way.

[57:03] Matt Rodin: Yeah, the best way. Like, you, you see all of it.

[57:06] Micaela Diamond: Yeah.

[57:07] Matt Rodin: And I just, I just, I feel very, I feel very, very blessed. And I think yesterday was my birthday.

[57:13] Micaela Diamond: And I, and I feel like that was my biggest takeaway from last year, was that I'm like, man, I fucking love my fucking friends.

[57:22] Matt Rodin: Like, I feel so lucky.

[57:25] Micaela Diamond: Yeah.

[57:26] Matt Rodin: About my community and my circles, because I know people don't have that.

[57:26] Micaela Diamond: I know.

[57:32] Matt Rodin: And I just feel so fucking blessed that I have friends like you who keep me grounded, love on me, and it doesn't matter what the work is that I'm doing. It's like so secondary.

[57:48] Micaela Diamond: Completely irrelevant.

[57:49] Matt Rodin: Right. I mean, it's fun. Like, it's fun to be like, ooh, you're so good. Like, it's fun.

[57:53] Micaela Diamond: Yeah, definitely.

[57:55] Matt Rodin: But it's not. It's not.

[57:56] Micaela Diamond: Yeah, it's not, that's not what the friendship is like built on.

[57:59] Matt Rodin: Yeah.

[57:59] Micaela Diamond: And that is like, oh, yeah. So nice. Cause I didn't have that for a long time. And I feel like now I like really, really do.

[58:06] Matt Rodin: So happy 31st.

[58:08] Micaela Diamond: Thanks.

[58:09] Matt Rodin: Happy run.

[58:12] Micaela Diamond: Yeah.

[58:13] Matt Rodin: Have a good, have a good run.

[58:15] Micaela Diamond: As if we're at 16 years old.

[58:17] Matt Rodin: Have a good run.

[58:18] Micaela Diamond: In your haze college.

[58:19] Matt Rodin: Have a good run.

[58:20] Micaela Diamond: Yeah, the one weekend that you're doing this show.

[58:22] Matt Rodin: How many shows do you have?

[58:23] Micaela Diamond: Four.

[58:24] Matt Rodin: Four. Oh my god. How many shows do you have?

[58:27] Micaela Diamond: 230.

[58:28] Matt Rodin: What are you at now?

[58:30] Micaela Diamond: I don't know. 50?

[58:32] Matt Rodin: You're not counting.

[58:32] Micaela Diamond: No, I really have no idea.

[58:35] Matt Rodin: You're not working here just to?

[58:39] Micaela Diamond: No.

[58:40] Matt Rodin: Someone else is counting.

[58:41] Micaela Diamond: You don't have to. There isn't there on the call sheet that they're like, it's performance number, blankety blank blank.

[58:46] Matt Rodin: Probably.

[58:47] Micaela Diamond: I don't read that letter.

[58:53] Matt Rodin: Thanks for listening.

[58:55] Micaela Diamond: See you next time.