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[0:00] ♪ Musical number: "Mamma Mia" — performed by ABBA ♪

[0:52] Jess McAnally: Hello and welcome back to another episode of Theatre in the D. I am joined by my partner in all things and everything, Miranda Moffat.

[1:00] Miranda Moffat: Hello everyone.

[1:01] Jess McAnally: And today, thanks to ATG in Detroit, we were able to see Mamma Mia! The National Tour. This is wonderful and you know what? I'm pretty sure they could have played "Dancing Queen" for two hours and it still would have been worth the money.

[1:16] Jess McAnally: So Mamma Mia! as of course we know, has music and lyrics by members of ABBA and the book is by Katherine Johnson. So Mamma Mia! for those that are uninitiated into the world of all things ABBA is based on ABBA songs. I believe it was a stage show first and then the movie Mamma Mia! came out starring Meryl Streep, Amanda Seyfried and that one actually got a sequel, I believe.

[1:41] Jess McAnally: So Mamma Mia! is basically using the songs of ABBA to tell a story about a young girl who's getting married and her mother and she doesn't know who her dad is and this is basically her trying to figure that out in some fun musical numbers. And those of you who have followed our channel for a while will remember the iconic drinking game where me and my co-host Amita Schools of Cheese and Brianna Jones got very drunk on alcohol that Miranda Moffat made for us to the point where Brianna Jones was in a crying stupor by the end of the night. One of the most all-time great nights of the pandemic.

[2:20] Jess McAnally: This is not our first time seeing the live version of Mamma Mia! We did see it about two years ago when the tour was, I think, just starting. That was a different experience. We had not the best audience experience there. Here tonight it was a total blast and Mamma Mia! is a crowd pleaser where really those songs, every ABBA song, they don't have a single bad one. It's bangers to bangers, wall to wall, start to finish. So no matter what, you're leaving with a smile on your face at the end of it.

[2:53] Jess McAnally: And I think over the years Mamma Mia! has kind of become an easy target for criticism, a little unfairly, in my opinion, in a way that I think Cats was the previous like, let's all just jump on this thing that's popular. I think this has craft and thought to it, especially the book writer was Katherine Johnson, correct?

[3:14] Miranda Moffat: Yes.

[3:15] Jess McAnally: I think she adds so much authenticity to this story. And in the way that she uses the songs, it takes songs that were, as written by Benny and Bjorn, songs about women being the powerless ones and gives the women the power. I think the most iconic one is "Does Your Mother Know That You're Out," which was sung by a man to a quote-unquote childish girl. And now it's sung by an older woman to a childish boy. And I think it just works so much more effectively.

[3:43] Jess McAnally: I think in that way, there are a lot of things in both the stage show and also in the movie itself that does that well, where the songs sort of removed from their original context are used more effectively in the musical. I think like almost opposite to what my usual complaint is where, like I think last time when we saw Lion King, my thing was a lot of it feels like a play interspersed with musical numbers. I think maybe this has a little bit too many. We were really trying to fit in the greatest hits of ABBA really hard.

[4:17] Jess McAnally: It's just like nonstop, like song after song after song. There's very little talking and context in between for most of it. A lot of the actual talking is in the first act. And then as soon as you get to the latter half of the first act, it's just like song after song after song, which is a little strange. It's also a little strange to suddenly, I mean, in any musical, it's always a little strange watching somebody randomly burst with a song, but especially when that song is ABBA. But no complaints here. There were a lot of ABBA songs, but like who doesn't love ABBA? It's hard to find all of that. It's a fun time either way.

[4:55] Jess McAnally: But I think there were a lot of fun little sort of tidbits that I picked up on this time. I don't know if you saw this, but the Tanya character, I think that's one of the friends, right? The Christine Baranski version of the character from the movie. In that scene where they're doing "Does Your Mother Know," her hat and her outfit matches the tiki bar umbrella that the young man she dances with is using. Do you notice that?

[5:22] Miranda Moffat: I did not, but...

[5:23] Jess McAnally: Her whole ensemble as well as her bag and the hat basically mimicked the umbrella that was used for the tiki bar. Also, I guess I don't know why it didn't stick into my head that for some reason it's all in threes. The three young friends, the three older friends, and then the three men that they sort of pair off in that way. That was something I had picked up on this time.

[5:45] Jess McAnally: One other thing, I think maybe the only song in this that I don't think was used the best is "The Name of the Game" because Sophie was singing that to, not to Harry, to Bill. And to me, "The Name of the Game" is like two romantic partners talking to each other. And so her singing that song to him felt really out of place. I understand what they were trying to do with that. I just don't think that that one fit particularly well. But other than that, I think most things are pretty well placed in my opinion.

[6:17] Jess McAnally: I want to say that there is a song that I forgot existed and when it started up I was in full joy mode. We don't get enough good nightmare sequences in musical theatre. We kind of dropped that after Oklahoma. So seeing a proper ABBA-themed nightmare at the start of Act II, I can't believe I don't remember that at all from our previous watch, but it was like, that was my highlight of the entire show was this surreal monstrosity of colors and garish lighting that starts Act II.

[6:52] Jess McAnally: I know that's a ridiculous thing to say when you have, you know, "Dancing Queen," but that was really just something that tickled me pink. And I agree with you about them just trying to cram in as many songs, so much that they had nowhere to put "Waterloo" that they just said, "You want one more, everyone?" Just so that you don't leave unsatisfied about not having one of the most famous ABBA songs ever played.

[7:15] Jess McAnally: The cast was great. Specifically, if you don't do the Dynamos right, it really is going to fall flat, and thankfully all three of those actresses really killed it. They play age-appropriate roles, mostly. If I had any critiques of this at all, it's... Oh, gosh. I think the set design is kind of trapped in the early 2000s, with respect, and I mean that... Usually I say that with a complimentary tone. Here it is just like, ooh, it's a little too simple, a little too... I don't know, it just didn't work for me.

[7:53] Jess McAnally: Except for in highlight moments, like when the boys come out with their flippers. Those are when the bare set design really works. And I know people are going to say this, maybe we needed a few more dance breaks to fill that space. No, no, we did not need any more dance breaks. That was enough. It was an appropriate amount for ABBA, I think.

[8:14] Miranda Moffat: I agree, the sets are pretty simplistic. But then again, I don't know that there's much else you could do to sort of capture what I think... Also, I think the movie does really well, obviously being able to see everything in the context of Greece itself really enhances the beauty of it. And you understand why Donna stays where she is, despite kind of struggling pretty hard to maintain herself, and to make money, running a hotel, and doing everything on her own. I think that's something that the movie really helps you capture. I think everybody wanted to go to Greece after that movie came out.

[8:48] Jess McAnally: But yeah, it is a little stuck in that time period. And I wonder too, as we were watching, what time it was set in. And it seems like it may be time locked based on the songs, because Donna has these sort of love affairs with these three men, and I think she said '79. And then there's a lot of references to them being young during the time of the flower power. So that would basically put Sophie, being 20 years old, that would put us at the early 2000s, basically.

[9:15] Miranda Moffat: So I wondered that myself, kind of like what the time period is. And it seems like it's kind of trapped there based on the songs.

[9:21] Jess McAnally: They don't know 9-11 happens.

[9:23] Miranda Moffat: Oh my god, we don't know this.

[9:25] Jess McAnally: I don't know what time specifically this is based on.

[9:27] Miranda Moffat: That's going to '99.

[9:29] Jess McAnally: Okay, yeah, that's true. This is true. That's irrelevant though. Anyway, one of the things, so I think Jesse mentioned that we had seen Mamma Mia in the previous tour. I want to say that the people playing Tanya and Sam are the same ones that we had that time. I vividly remember the Tanya character, her actress, being there last time. I could be wrong. But I think she was probably the most fun for me to watch.

[10:11] Jess McAnally: I usually don't like the "Does Your Mother Know" sequence, like in the movie itself, but I really enjoy watching her do it. She was really, really fun and really, really good. I was struggling because, like you said, there is a sense of age between, obviously, the younger group and the older group involved. I was like, I don't know who would be the understudy for these people because everybody kind of looks young to me, honestly. There's only a couple people that look closer to the age they're supposed to be. Everybody else is like, you all look too young. So I'm like, I don't know who plays who. Either way, I think with the costuming and just with the acting, you can suspend your disbelief. I think everything kind of makes sense. But yeah, I think overall, like a very.

[10:43] Jess McAnally: A very fun time. If you like the movie, if you like ABBA, if you just enjoy good pop music, you're going to like Mamma Mia!. I don't know, who doesn't? Who doesn't like ABBA? A lot of people, apparently. I think even people that really like ABBA tend to think that Mamma Mia! is some lesser than, and I bump against that because it's one of the few jukebox musicals that does it right, where it uses the songs to push a story forward, like truly push a story forward. I was kind of sitting there trying to think of how the songs are being used, and every one, we end at a different place than we started, whether it is a literal plot thing or an emotional story beat or something like that, especially in Act 1.

Act 2, we do kind of get into like, let's just sing a ballad, but every single one in Act 1 was getting us to a different place by the end of the song, and we've seen a lot of jukebox musicals that don't do that and don't really try to make the songs push the story forward, and we just kind of stop and enjoy a fun pop song. And here, we don't do that until they make a mix at the end, where they come out in their spandex and they're like, hey, let's sing. And the audience loved it. Man, the audience was into it tonight, and that's what it's all about. We go to a lot of theater, and we do not see this amount of engagement from people over 50. People over 50 are often just kind of like, sighing and not particularly interested.

They're seasoned ticket holders that are coming out because they paid for the ticket. So I always feel bad because I just feel someone not enjoying themselves next to me. Here, they were all locked in. They were all having a blast. They were humming along, joking along, especially during the megamix at the end. They were singing and dancing, and I just was looking around, just feeling warm inside from theater bringing people together. It made me so happy. I mean, that's the great thing about Mamma Mia is that typically, people who are going to see it have some sort of prior knowledge of the movie or ABBA generally. And so, yeah, you see people singing along. And it is, I mean, just based on the volume level in the room, it is more, it is akin to a concert, really, with the way that they are, with the way that they put it on.

[13:05] Jess McAnally: One of the things that I really appreciated this time around was specifically the harmonies. I mean, everybody knows ABBA songs, obviously, but the way that they sort of pull out different harmonies, singing them, and the way that you have sort of a lot of, a lot of it is like ensemble supported. I always, I wondered if that was like something that they pre-recorded, or if it's like literally all the cast just sort of like in the wings offstage doing the like background harmonies. I don't know how that works. But yeah, the sort of arrangement of the songs is cool and very interesting. I think the one thing that is like in the sort of transition from a pop song to a theater staging, the one thing that is a little funky is that ABBA songs, like there are definitely a lot of like ensemble pieces, and I think some that are duets.

But when you're singing a pop song, one of the things that is always a little awkward is like one person is singing and one person just has to like stand there and react to them. Like specifically, the winner takes it all. Janna is just literally singing her heart out at Sam, and he just has to like stand there for a two, three minutes and just like look at her reacting to her. Like I find that a little strange, because usually when you watch a musical, like the people are singing together in the scene. It's a song that's made to be a duet for them to like sing the ballad together, whereas like with a pop song, you don't necessarily. So that's the one thing that's maybe a little strange. That specific moment is so much worse in the movie than it is on stage, though, because Pierce Brosnan looks lost next to Meryl Streep in that scene.

It is truly... I get it, but that is a musical theater trope. Like even in Les Mis, when you have someone singing a ballad, you do just have someone staring at them while they sing a ballad. The Last Five Years movie really bumped on that, too, where it was a theatrical trick of having the other person not present for their songs, and then when you dramatize them being there, not being allowed to sing, it's really weird.

[15:12] Jess McAnally: The thing I feel with this musical is it does feel a little draggy in Act 2, until it doesn't, and then we speed up toward the end, which tends to be the way with a lot of jukebox musicals. We felt the same way about Moulin Rouge, and while this isn't a jukebox musical, it's of a very similar structure. Six. As far as anything else negative or positive, I just want to say that this cast really nailed it, and they had great chemistry, and I could tell that they've been hanging out for a while. I know that they made a stop at the Winter Garden to bring Mamma Mia home for a bit, and that must have been a really rejuvenating kind of bringing the cast together moment, because everyone brought energy, and they seemed to be having a blast on stage. And that's not always the case when you go see a piece of theater. I think they could have stayed out all night if they were allowed to.

[16:01] Miranda: I agree. It's definitely a very high energy, and also I think, not in a negative way, a little bit more loose than a normal theater production, which some of them, of course not all of them, but some do feel like pretty high art. And this felt like people more naturally playing off of each other, and allowing for a little bit of improvisation. I know that there was a couple times that folks accidentally slipped a little bit, and they played it off really well, and made it a piece of the character. I think the one character was trying to hand the conductor something. It was always a camera to quote unquote take a picture of the group, and almost fell down into the orchestra. I was like, oh no, that's live theater for you.

But yes, overall, very enjoyable. It is the basis of jukebox musicals. It feels like the jukebox musical. And like I said, if you like pop, if you like ABBA, if you like the movies, you will very much enjoy it. And I think the thing about enjoying Mamma Mia is don't overthink it. It's not exactly high art, but you're going to have a good time, and it's going to feel like a neat concert. So I think you'll like it. Give it a try.

[17:22] Jess McAnally: I agree, but no spoilers. When I first saw the movie, which I saw before the stage show, I was so frustrated that we never figured out who the dad was. It really pissed me off. I'm like, what did we just spend these hours doing? But seeing it in many other cases, I get it now. I get it. And I also kind of always want to know, but also I think it does feel somewhat like it makes more sense to just be like, oh, they all love her and they all will take a little piece of her. And I think that piece of it is particularly well portrayed in the show. And who do you think it is? I really want it to be Harry. I think it's probably Bill, is my opinion. And maybe that's just because in the movie version, Stellan Skarsgard looks like probably the best possibility for who could be Amanda Seyfried's dad.

And I just love Colin Firth. So that's my bet. I think it's probably Bill. I want it to be Harry. Sam is kind of give or take for me. I think that Bill is a sperm donor, but Sam is the dad that married my mom, the stepdad. But Harry is the dad that stepped out. So that is my three distinctions for the dads.

[18:40] Miranda: I like it a lot. It's a good time. If you're able to drink, have a cocktail, bring some girlies. It's playing at the Fisher Theatre right now, so go check it out. And I am going to give this some Athenian cheese, because you know what? I think that we all need a little Greek in our diet. Miranda, what about you? Overall thoughts on your cheese rating?

[19:06] Miranda: I think overall my summation is the same, is don't overthink it. It is a lot of ABBA songs. It's not going to be a traditional musical, but you will have a good time, and that's what matters. I am going to say feta cheese. That's Greek, isn't it? That's Greek. Or what's the cheese that you light on fire? What's that one? I have no clue. Whatever that cheese is that you set on fire is an appetizer at Greek restaurants. Maybe that one. Well, they're freaking delicious, which is basically what Mamma Mia is. That's my summary. It's delicious.

[19:42] Jess McAnally: It is delicious, and I hope you enjoyed our little discussion. Thank you to ATG in Detroit for making it possible. And next, I believe we will be seeing Anne Juliette, which is something that has been suggested to us for years on Musicals with Cheese. I have yet to see it. Do you know the premise of Anne Juliette, Miranda? She's shaking her head no. It is basically, I don't want to call it fanfic, because that sounds kind of diminutive, but it's like what if Juliette had a life after Romeo and Juliette? She had more of her story to tell, and that will be playing at the Fisher Theater from March 31st to April 12th. We will be covering it, and that is another jukebox musical that everyone says is done great.

And it's another one where it's all the music from one singer, or one pop composer, but it's all these songs you didn't know were by the same guy. I'm going to be so interested for you to be like, wait, this guy wrote all of these very famous pop numbers. But yeah, tune in for that. Thank you very much, and Miranda, anything else you'd love to say?

[20:47] Miranda: No, just have a good night and go see Mamma Mia.

[20:54] Jess McAnally: Yes, I've been brokenhearted blue since the day you started. Mama, how'd I ever let you go?

[21:12] ♪ Musical number: "Mamma Mia" — performed by Jess McAnally ♪