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[0:19] David Rigano: Hello and welcome to The Drama Book Show.

[0:21] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I'm Mark-Eugene Garcia, and this is our 10th episode.

[0:22] David Rigano: 10th episode.

[0:27] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Look at that. We're not going to hit another digit till we do 100.

[0:30] David Rigano: That's boy.

[0:31] Mark-Eugene Garcia: That's math.

[0:32] David Rigano: Yes.

[0:34] Mark-Eugene Garcia: That is how that is how maths works.

[0:37] David Rigano: Exactly.

[0:38] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And we'll get there.

[0:39] David Rigano: We'll get there.

[0:39] Mark-Eugene Garcia: We have a lot of episodes together.

[0:40] David Rigano: Yeah, we've got a lot in the can, and we've been having amazing, amazing guests coming.

[0:46] Mark-Eugene Garcia: If you've been following our Eventbrite, you know that.

[0:50] David Rigano: So you should be following our Eventbrite to see.

[0:52] Mark-Eugene Garcia: So David, what cool things do we have going on on today's episode?

[0:56] David Rigano: Uh well, I got to sit down with a writer who I not only love his work, I just adore him as a person. He was just coming up when I was in college, and so I got to know him then, and we've gotten to know each other over the years, and he had a giant album come out called Album.

[1:15] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Alba.

[1:16] David Rigano: And it's Joe Iconis.

[1:18] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Oh, love.

[1:19] David Rigano: Uh, such such a great dude.

[1:22] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Uh he was actually good enough to send in a video tribute to us in our Ides of March extravaganza.

[1:30] David Rigano: I saw him make that appearance.

[1:31] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah.

[1:32] David Rigano: He's he's just a musical theater bad boy.

[1:34] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah.

[1:36] David Rigano: He really is.

[1:37] Mark-Eugene Garcia: He knows his stuff.

[1:38] David Rigano: He knows his musical theater inside and out.

[1:42] Mark-Eugene Garcia: He runs with it and he just kind of like breaks all the rules in the most beautiful ways.

[1:47] David Rigano: Yeah, it he acknowledges the rules before he breaks them.

[1:50] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yes.

[1:50] David Rigano: And that's something I love.

[1:51] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And so you're a Joe Iconis fan.

[1:53] David Rigano: Yes.

[1:53] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I'm a Joe Iconis fan.

[1:54] David Rigano: But we're not the only two in the room.

[1:56] Mark-Eugene Garcia: That is correct.

[1:57] David Rigano: Who do we have with us today?

[1:58] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Uh we have Aaron Clark Burstein, who works here at the Drama Bookshop with us and is also a huge Joe Iconis fan.

[2:05] Aaron Clark Burstein: Is that true?

[2:06] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Huge is a bit of an understatement, I think.

[2:09] Aaron Clark Burstein: Playing it cool because it's Joe.

[2:10] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, well.

[2:11] Aaron Clark Burstein: No, I am a lifelong Joe Iconis fan for sure.

[2:15] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah.

[2:15] Aaron Clark Burstein: And one thing that Aaron started here at the Drama Bookshop was a concert series called Drama at Mama.

[2:23] Mark-Eugene Garcia: That's right.

[2:24] Aaron Clark Burstein: Which we have performed at the legendary cabaret, Don't Tell Mama.

[2:28] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And you've performed a couple of Joe's songs.

[2:31] Aaron Clark Burstein: That's right, yeah. I got to sing my personal favorite of his songs, uh, Andy's song off of his album Two Player Game with George Salazar.

[2:41] Aaron Clark Burstein: It was a song that I first heard in college, like right when I was becoming experienced and like learning more about musical theater.

[2:50] Aaron Clark Burstein: And that song specifically really stuck out to me. And I remember at the time, uh like maybe 2018, 2019, emailing him and being like not both me and David looking at each other, knowing exactly how old we were.

[2:52] David Rigano: 2018, 2019.

[3:08] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Sorry, not to remind you.

[3:10] David Rigano: Not just that, but how long we had known each other and been working professionally as adults outside of college by that point.

[3:16] Mark-Eugene Garcia: But go on, Aaron.

[3:17] Aaron Clark Burstein: You were sharing.

[3:17] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, sorry.

[3:18] Aaron Clark Burstein: We were telling a little story about being a kid.

[3:20] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, that's right.

[3:21] Aaron Clark Burstein: 2019.

[3:22] Mark-Eugene Garcia: A spry young buck.

[3:23] Aaron Clark Burstein: Um, like 2018-2019, I emailed him and was like, hey man, I uh love this song.

[3:29] Aaron Clark Burstein: I really want to perform it. Do you got the sheet music?

[3:32] Aaron Clark Burstein: Because I can't find it anywhere.

[3:33] Aaron Clark Burstein: And his assistant got back to me and was like, no, not like that.

[3:37] Aaron Clark Burstein: But he's like, it's not available anywhere. Sorry. Good luck. Here's links to all of his other stuff. Go buy it.

[3:42] Aaron Clark Burstein: And I was like, okay, fast forward to now. We're doing uh Drama at Mama, and our accompanist at the time, James Higgins.

[3:44] Mark-Eugene Garcia: James Higgins.

[3:50] Aaron Clark Burstein: Thank you. The lovely James Higgins, our accompanist at the time, offered to transpose it.

[3:55] Aaron Clark Burstein: Just the cuff.

[3:57] Aaron Clark Burstein: And uh it sounded really great.

[3:59] Aaron Clark Burstein: And that was my favorite performance out of anything I've done in 2023.

[4:03] Aaron Clark Burstein: And yeah, just had a blast. Fellow coworker Chelsea Carl and I sang Party Hat at another Drama at Mama.

[4:10] Aaron Clark Burstein: That was a really fun one.

[4:11] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I got to play a pissed-off cat who was so joked.

[4:16] Aaron Clark Burstein: Yeah, what other song do you know that's from the perspective of a pissed-off cat who's pissed off because his owner is putting a party hat on him?

[4:23] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Oh I was gonna say memory until the end.

[4:28] Aaron Clark Burstein: That's what Cats is about, right?

[4:31] Mark-Eugene Garcia: As far as I remember, I wasn't aware that Cats was about anymore.

[4:34] Aaron Clark Burstein: Well, Cats has a plot?

[4:35] Mark-Eugene Garcia: You're kidding.

[4:37] Aaron Clark Burstein: Where did you first discover Joe?

[4:41] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Uh that was in college.

[4:42] Aaron Clark Burstein: That was when um Be More Chill blew up.

[4:45] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Of course.

[4:46] Aaron Clark Burstein: I was uh such an annoying Be More Chill fan.

[4:50] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Um, and still am.

[4:51] Aaron Clark Burstein: But yeah, I remember just devouring that cast album, the original one to rubber.

[4:55] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah.

[4:56] Aaron Clark Burstein: Good.

[4:56] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I'm glad because my brother Paul Rigano gets like show to pull like 11 cents or something every time.

[5:03] Aaron Clark Burstein: Good.

[5:06] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Or a cent and a half or something.

[5:07] Aaron Clark Burstein: I don't know exactly, but I'm sure I contributed to at least a hundred dollars in royalty.

[5:10] Mark-Eugene Garcia: That's fun.

[5:11] Aaron Clark Burstein: That album is so good.

[5:12] Mark-Eugene Garcia: It's it's fantastic.

[5:14] Aaron Clark Burstein: Paul worked on that original production and then on that album.

[5:16] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Well, that's how I discovered him. It was right when Standby was in in the Chicago area.

[5:20] Aaron Clark Burstein: We had this Instagram site, and people started doing fan art for the show.

[5:24] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And I was like, How cool is this?

[5:26] Aaron Clark Burstein: And then so I started following some of these people.

[5:28] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Like, who are these people who are doing fan art for my musical?

[5:30] Aaron Clark Burstein: And then I saw that they were doing fan art for this other show.

[5:33] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And I'm like, Standby Mark's musical has a cast album.

[5:33] Aaron Clark Burstein: Has a cast album.

[5:37] Mark-Eugene Garcia: It's a rock show.

[5:38] Aaron Clark Burstein: That can be listened to on Bandcamp.

[5:41] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Great.

[5:41] Aaron Clark Burstein: Yeah, yeah. I'll put a link.

[5:43] Aaron Clark Burstein: Um but I noticed that there were people that were doing fan art for this other show.

[5:47] Aaron Clark Burstein: And I'm like, what is this Be More Chill?

[5:49] Aaron Clark Burstein: And I listened to it, I'm like, this is so good.

[5:52] Aaron Clark Burstein: To the point that even when I got to Chicago and was meeting with my collaborators, it's like, hi, how are you?

[5:58] Aaron Clark Burstein: I haven't seen you. Have you listened to this show?

[6:00] Aaron Clark Burstein: You need to listen right now.

[6:02] Aaron Clark Burstein: Like this is just oh, so good.

[6:04] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And it just it stuck with me because yes, it's it's weird and sci-fi and yeah, all the cool things, but it's also deep and about anxiety and about the things we've gone through or are going through now.

[6:16] Aaron Clark Burstein: And who wouldn't want a squip to feel better about themselves?

[6:20] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I texted Paul right after I saw that New Jersey production.

[6:24] Aaron Clark Burstein: And I was like, oh, it's Little Shop for the digital age.

[6:27] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yes, yeah, exactly.

[6:29] Aaron Clark Burstein: It's it is that like it's very tempting to give away your autonomy for the promise of yeah, yeah.

[6:39] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, I've been liked.

[6:40] Aaron Clark Burstein: I would have done that in a ha ha.

[6:42] Mark-Eugene Garcia: But I feel like for like my age and younger, especially, like that one just felt really formative.

[6:50] Aaron Clark Burstein: Like for me personally, in high school, when I was just getting into theater, Hamilton was like what brought me into it, and I'm sure thousands and millions of other theater kids.

[7:00] Mark-Eugene Garcia: But then college hit and Be More Chill just I don't know, kind of elevated theater for me in a way that I hadn't experienced it yet.

[7:08] Aaron Clark Burstein: And that really stuck with me.

[7:11] Mark-Eugene Garcia: See, when I was in college, I was at Marymount Manhattan College, and I think Joe was probably like just out of NYU.

[7:19] Aaron Clark Burstein: And so he was doing shows all over the place.

[7:22] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And he had his, you know, he had the black suits.

[7:24] Aaron Clark Burstein: And he had, but he was mainly, he was doing concerts.

[7:28] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And he was he was giving out homemade handwritten labels, CDs.

[7:35] Aaron Clark Burstein: You know, when I was in college, I had this Joe Iconis demo album that had been handed to me for free on my way into a show at the Laurie Beachman, after which, like I was there with people who knew people who knew Joe, so we all went for drinks afterwards.

[7:52] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And I had I had interned at a theater where there was a concert that they sang Blue Hair.

[7:58] Aaron Clark Burstein: Celia Keenan Bulger sang Blue Hair.

[8:00] Mark-Eugene Garcia: No way in that conversation.

[8:01] Aaron Clark Burstein: Oh my god.

[8:02] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And I was kind of like, what is that song?

[8:05] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And where did it come from and who wrote it?

[8:08] Aaron Clark Burstein: And then I got more into the world of the cabaret world of what Joe would do.

[8:15] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And that's how I started to see Jason Sweettooth Williams, the whole gang that he puts together.

[8:23] Aaron Clark Burstein: And we got to see that when he was here.

[8:25] Mark-Eugene Garcia: He brought the family with him.

[8:27] Aaron Clark Burstein: Yeah, that's dying.

[8:28] Mark-Eugene Garcia: If you, dear listener, have never heard the guy that we've been gushing over.

[8:32] Aaron Clark Burstein: Buckle up, baby.

[8:33] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Let's hear some Joe Iconis.

[8:34] David Rigano: Alright, let's do it.

[9:10] ♪ Musical number: "Halloween" — performed by Joe Iconis ♪

[10:47] ♪ Musical number: "Revenge" — performed by Joe Iconis ♪

[12:15] ♪ Musical number ♪

[14:41] Joe Iconis: Um, I mean, I guess because I have some albums that are out. But really it's just like when else would I have an opportunity to play a lot of songs in a bookshop and not have people kick me out. So I figured that most people who are here are people who know who I am and presumably like me. Last night, some of the gang and I did this gig in a place and it was, I thought you were clapping a little bit, and we said it was like a benefit for some organization. I didn't even know what they were gonna do for this. The person who runs the organization explained it to me ten times and I still don't understand. So we did this, the band and the audience wasn't beautiful at all. And I got the sense that they were expecting like a Billy Joel cover band.

And like so as I sat at the keyboard to start, I was kind of like, you know what? They were expecting a Billy Joel cover band, and that's exactly what they deserved. I didn't give that to them. I played for an hour, and they were like, I've never started into it. This is all just to say that it's really nice to be in a room like this.

[16:11] Joe Iconis: So this because I assume you guys know who I am, you know that I just had this musical called the Untitled Hunter S. Thompson musical. Hopefully it'll be at a theater near you soon. But this show, there is a song in the show that has been in the show for years and years and years, and it's a song called "Wave." Thank you. One kind of wave. That's a song called "Wave," and it's a song that I've done in concert before, and I like the song a lot. You know, I love this song a lot. And it's always been really successful in a concert setting, and it was never quite as successful in the context of the show. And so for La Jolla, for a few reasons, some of which were artistic and some of which were legal, I had to replace this song.

So I actually had a totally new song, which to me was really heartbreaking, and it was very, it was just, it was like I couldn't imagine how I was gonna replace this song that I loved. But I thought that it might be cool to do "Wave" as we know it, and then do the song that I have replaced it with in the show. You've seen like a group of people who would be interested in that, and the same song twice. Here, I haven't actually sung this song since it was replaced in the show, so first I didn't even practice it. So let's slightly do "Wave," and then I'll do what it's turned into. Um, here's "Wave."

[17:37] ♪ Musical number: "Wave" — performed by Joe Iconis ♪

[22:33] Joe Iconis: And so, um, it's a, there's the other stats in the show, right? That used to end the first act, and um, it felt like it was it. The whole first act of our show is about Hunter S. Thompson, you know, who's this writer who is, um, he's kind of, we're trying to find the place where he fits in, right? He's trying to find what he wants to write about, how he wants to write about it, and what he wants to, uh, to how he wants to occupy this space in the world as an artist, and what he decides is he wants to use his writing to take down a president. He wants to use his writing to take down President Richard Nixon, right? And so, um, and so it felt like the song needed to be something that was a little more active, something that was a little more like, um, Hunter really explaining what he literally wanted.

You know, in the whole first act, right? There's a lot of Hunter being like, I want a better world, and I want change, I want to burn down what we have, I want to burn it to the ground. And so, um, finally someone is like, that's great that you want to burn it to the ground, but then like what do you want after that? Like, what do you literally want to come from decimating everything that there is now? What now then? What does this new world look like to you? And, uh, this is what he responds with. And, um, there's some more whoosh crashes in this, and so if anybody wants to join me on the whoosh crashes, I appreciate it. Thank you. What does it look like? What is this America that he wants to look like?

And he says it looks like a nation of unemployment insurance, and contraceptives, literate children, and empathetic leaders, gratification, and funding for the arts, and we need a nation of cars that move fast, and justice that moves faster, kind-hearted landlords, and tolerant doctors, sex without shame, and love with alligate, and weep. They say the universe arcs toward justice. Why call bullshit on that? Know the universe moves in cycles, it will surge then curtail. You submerge or you sail, tide and it's high, and then it's night, angels fly, and then they're shout, and it gets better and worse, and better and worse, and better, it gets better and worse, and better and worse.

[25:48] Joe Iconis: Face the storm and be brave, and sail toward the next wave. The wave of civilized justice, and open borders, patches on jackets, and non-polluted water, boys who wear pearls, and girls who chug beer, and we need a nation of secular judges and equitable housing, chemical breakfasts, disorganized religion, radical mercy, and unrepentant weirdness, move free medication and multiple deadlines, growth without green, life without wars, without gun and sea, and army with door, no discrimination based upon sex, for race, for anything, for anything at all. The skies are clearer than veiled flowers rise, and then they're child, and it gets better and worse, and better and worse, and better, it gets better and worse, and better and worse together, worse, better, and carry with better and worse, and getting town better, face and so be brave and sail to the next wave.

[28:08] Joe Iconis: Stay like don't be hate and sail for the next wave.

[29:14] David Rigano: I do have to say I can't think of anyone else who would start a solo set with a full company production number.

[29:24] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah.

[29:26] Joe Iconis: So hi.

[29:28] David Rigano: Hey. Thanks for being here today. I wanted to talk a little bit about your work and the stuff that you've brought for us today. The first question, and I think like hearing you talk about Hunter S. Thompson there, it really solidifies this. I wanted to talk about like where you see stories for musicals, how you get your inspiration for what you feel should be a musical. Because I think that you've brought us some musicals with some very non-traditional sources, and it's provided us with some really fascinating shows.

[29:58] Joe Iconis: Well, thanks.

[29:59] David Rigano: Oh, sure. Anytime. You know, I think that whether I am writing a musical that is a totally original idea or working on a musical that is an adaptation of some kind, I think that the thing that I look for is I look for stories about human beings who don't typically get their stories told in general. And specifically who don't typically get their stories told in musicals. That's usually the thing that like catches my eye first. And then, you know, regardless of how wild the circumstances of the story are, or how much the characters may or may not be human, or you know, may or may not be of this earth, I have to see, I have to find my way in a really personal way. You know, I'm not a writer who gets excited about like, I don't usually get excited about a great story, I get excited about great characters.

[31:03] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah.

[31:05] Joe Iconis: And then the story comes after. It's so interesting to hear you say that because obviously right now there's there's so much, you know, Stephen Sondheim stuff going around, and he famously always said, no, these characters are not me.

[31:15] David Rigano: He's fine.

[31:20] Mark-Eugene Garcia: So would you say that in a way like all of the characters are you?

[31:27] Joe Iconis: Yeah, all of them. Uh-huh. I don't I've never written a character who is not me in some way. They're just like some of them are really thinly veiled, some of them are really heavily veiled, but they're all me. Even the characters of mine who I hate, like the characters of mine, like what an annoying person or what a pain-in-the-ass character, it's me in some way. Yeah, yeah. I don't I don't know how to write any other way. It's like it's literally the way that I write. Like I'm just like, oh, what was the time in my life when I was feeling this? No matter what the situation is, and that isn't a way in. You know, it's always from the inside out, it's never from the outside out.

[32:00] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah. Cool. I do want to open up, um, we're we're gonna talk about album a little bit as well, but I want to open it up to all assembled. If y'all have some questions about Joe's work as well.

[32:11] Aaron Clark Burstein: Oh, this young man right here in the front.

[32:13] Audience Member: I hey, I know this is gonna be a callback, but um, I recall that with Be More Chill, you were always upset because there was one rhyme that was not true.

[32:26] Joe Iconis: Yeah, and you love true rhymes.

[32:29] Audience Member: I do.

[32:31] Joe Iconis: Which wasn't.

[32:34] Audience Member: None of your goddamn business.

[32:37] Joe Iconis: No, I'll never say. It's right there. Okay, I'll never say. I can't think of it's there's you know, and there might there might even be an unintentional one in there that I but there's one that that was that was unintentional. Um, that I just every time you hear it, it makes me crazy. But I've you know, it's just it's so hard for me to not rhyme. Can I tell you, and I don't know if I I don't think I've ever told you this before. The very first time this was it because something that you do, and and when you're working with perfect rhymes, you can do this. You can set up and pull away expectations. And I lost my mind at Two River Theater watching Be More Chill for the first time during Guy I Could Kind of Be Into, because I heard what you were doing.

You you did early on, where you set up a rhyme and then you flipped it, and you're like, oh, she's kind of ADHD. So she does the wrong rhyme. She does the rhyme that we're not thinking of. And I saw it coming again. And I was like, oh, oh, he wants us to, he wants us to think it's gonna rhyme with it. He wants you to, she's gonna say you, but she's not gonna say it. She's gonna say I bet she's gonna say Jake. And then she, I'm spoiling this if you get my little chill. And I and I'm sitting in the theater, like literally like vibrating in my seat, losing my mind.

[33:57] Joe Iconis: Oh my goodness.

[33:57] Audience Member: And then I and then I thought, and but it like it really, like when you're when you are always dealing with perfect rhymes, you can do that. You can really set expectations and then pull the rug out. And then beautifully at the end, when she is kind of the robot and she sings the same thing again and it does rhyme, it's freaky.

[34:23] Joe Iconis: Yes, um, but yeah, I appreciate it.

[34:27] Audience Member: Thank you for certainly certainly it's all intentional, yeah.

[34:32] Joe Iconis: Yeah, you know, I love I that's one of one of the major reasons that I love rhyme, like actual rhyme, is that you you can play with expectations. You know, I love playing with animals' expectation. I love playing with um the the sort of like the rules and the structure that we all of us in this room automatically bring to musicals when we watch them. Like we know what you know, musicals, you know how it works, you know, you know how the story's gonna go, pretty much. Sometimes there's like a sorted surprising thing, but even like the surprising things, it's like we know they're coming, you know. And so I love knowing that that is the you know, the audience is gonna be watching for that. I guess in that way I'm I'm really I'm really writing for people who know musicals.

[35:12] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Uh huh.

[35:13] Joe Iconis: I love writing for people who know musicals. You know, it's like we get the other knowledge.

[35:16] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, but I but I would also say that uh that you do bring a bit of a Billy Joel concert aspect to your next week, man.

[35:26] Joe Iconis: Yeah, yeah. Any other any other questions that we have uh yes, speaking of, yeah.

[35:32] Audience Member: Joe, you're a famous film book. What was your favorite movie this year and what?

[35:37] Joe Iconis: Um that's a great question. I uh a famous film book. I definitely who was my favorite movie. I really I really loved Asteroid City. Yeah, yeah. I'm a big Wes Anderson fan, and I really loved it. And I um I loved it uh because I thought it was I thought it was a look, a look at um processing grief through art in a way that I had not seen done. You know, there's a lot of I feel like there's a lot of movies and plays and songs that um are like about grief, and it's like it's kind of like it's kind of one of those things where I think sometimes when someone like makes something and they don't know what this to say it's about, they're like it's not grief. You know, it's one of those things, but this is actually uh and it's actually about being an artist and how we take things that happen in our lives and we create something out of them. And I thought that it did it in a in a genuinely surprising uh and very stylish way. So I really love that movie. And the screenplay is available in the film section here at the drama bookshop.

[36:41] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Where's the lie?

[36:45] David Rigano: We're gonna stop right there just for the time for timing. But we're excited for the next episode where we get the rest of the concert.

[36:55] Mark-Eugene Garcia: So, what do you have coming up?

[36:58] Joe Iconis: I have a show going up at 54 Below called Shining in Misery, a King-Size Parody. It is a parody of all things Stephen King, from Shining to On Writing to Shawshank Redemption. Every bit of Stephen King that you can get, we have tried to put into this show. If you if you into the woods, Stephen King, this is a little bit what you get, though a little bit more raunchy. We go up at 54 Below on May 8th at 9:30 p.m. Have a fantastic cast. The majority of them were in our original run in Madison, Wisconsin last year. And I remember when you were talking about the original run and and you were talking to me about you were in auditions and you were so excited for this person, and you and there were certain songs that were still had rewrites, and you're showing me new lyrics that we're putting.

And I was so I was so excited. And I can't, I I can't remember if I asked you like when I could get tickets, or if you just kind of said something about like, well, then I have to go to Wisconsin, or or or that Don, who's in Wisconsin, uh, who's the director who we both know? And and I said so, I was like, wait a minute, what what do you you didn't leave with that? Whatever it was, you did not lead with the fact that it was in Wisconsin. And I was getting really excited to see this show, only to then find out that it was not happening in New York. So I am super I get and now it I've got my tickets already to go see it at 54 below.

[38:16] Joe Iconis: Yeah, so I think you too. It's almost sold out. I'm really excited. It's gonna be a blast. It's it's raunchy, it's funny, it's oddly heartfelt, it's very feminist. The show really delves into Wendy's journey from the book, which is very different from the movie. So if you only know The Shining through the movie, as well as many of Stephen King's works through the movies, then you need to come and see what we got going on here.

[38:40] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Now, did you invite Stephen?

[38:42] Joe Iconis: Stephen King has a million ways to kill me. So I want to make sure that this is absolutely perfect before we let him know about it.

[38:52] Mark-Eugene Garcia: That's valid. I respect that. Thank you. Well, I hope to see you all there. Um, we have to cut this episode for time, but you're going to be joining us for the next episode with more Joe Iconis, right?

[39:01] Joe Iconis: Dang right.

[39:02] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Awesome. So don't forget to follow us on Instagram at drama book show podcast to see images from the show and see what's coming up next. Follow our event right by clicking events at dramabookshop.com to find out how to be part of our live audience. Remember, all the books we talk about can be found at the drama bookshop. And so can we. So we'll see you.

[39:23] Joe Iconis: See them at the bookshop.