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[0:18] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Hello and welcome to The Drama Book Show.

[0:20] David Rigano: My name's David Rigano.

[0:22] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And today we are talking about Isn't She Great, which is edited by Elizabeth Teets.

[0:28] David Rigano: And not just edited by, that's the in the publishing, that's the word. But it was conceived and compiled by her and based on an actual film series that she runs.

[0:42] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yes, exactly. It's women-led comedies from Nine to Five to Booksmart.

[0:47] David Rigano: And it's just funny women is like something I absolutely love. Like those are my favorite comedies. I love funny women.

[0:52] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Do you prefer funny girl or funny lady?

[0:56] David Rigano: Oh gosh. I'm gonna be a really bad gay and say I haven't seen either.

[1:00] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Either I haven't.

[1:07] David Rigano: Yes, I do. I know what people have been saying about me my entire life, but I have certainly seen both.

[1:12] Mark-Eugene Garcia: No, I haven't. But I have seen a lot of movies they talked about in this book, of which I don't believe that Funny Girl or Funny Lady was either of them.

[1:20] David Rigano: No, but they talk about True Beverly Hills.

[1:23] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yes.

[1:23] David Rigano: Yes. Which I was sad because they talked about that, which I love but didn't talk about Outrageous Fortune.

[1:29] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Which I've only recently seen True Beverly Hills for the first time.

[1:32] David Rigano: Oh really? And I loved it.

[1:34] Mark-Eugene Garcia: But Outrageous Fortune.

[1:36] David Rigano: You and I share.

[1:37] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Oh my god. Like I think everyone should see it. I have rewatched it so many times. That was one of my like comfort movies growing up. I had odd comfort movies, but that was one of them.

[1:44] David Rigano: Between Congo and Outrageous Fortune.

[1:50] Mark-Eugene Garcia: So you can count on me. So just remarkably clever and fun. And there is not one plot thread that doesn't come back.

[2:01] David Rigano: Yeah.

[2:01] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Like they all come back. Down to the earring that she puts on that is from a Christmas tree comes back. Like all every single thing of that movie. And it's so quotable.

[2:11] David Rigano: Yeah. I think that my whole family quotes so many different parts.

[2:16] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I often say, "You're an actor."

[2:20] David Rigano: Bullshit em.

[2:23] Mark-Eugene Garcia: That's all actors are bullshitters who get paid.

[2:27] David Rigano: Oh god. Yeah.

[2:28] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And I was even about to say, and most of the most quotable lines are Bette Midler's, but not Shelley Long.

[2:37] David Rigano: Yeah. I can't think of one.

[2:40] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah. They're all oh so good. I like just hers is more like actions, like the various ways of dying.

[2:47] David Rigano: Yes.

[2:48] Mark-Eugene Garcia: The thinking and you did that to me the other day.

[2:50] David Rigano: Yeah, I do that's how I die all the time.

[2:52] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yes. Every time I fake die, I always fake die Outrageous Fortune style. And if you don't know, and I'm doing it right now, but obviously you can't see. So if you don't know what we mean by this, and even if you do, go back and watch it again.

[3:04] David Rigano: It's funny because we're at that place where some people have never heard of this movie. I'm like, you don't understand. This is like comedy at its best. Two of the most incredible leading ladies who I heard had an argument over billing on that.

[3:18] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Really?

[3:19] David Rigano: Yeah, that it was they couldn't decide who was top billing of the city.

[3:24] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I mean, I figured that's yeah. And so I feel like I read that was it the like um the one of them comes first, but the other one's higher.

[3:34] David Rigano: No, it's from the Mississippi River to the west is Shelley Long is top billing, and from the river to the east is Bette Midler, like on the movie posters.

[3:45] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Which is just like what? That's not really equal.

[3:48] David Rigano: Although I guess fewer people.

[3:52] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I feel like I read that somewhere.

[3:53] David Rigano: In the middle of the incredible.

[3:57] Mark-Eugene Garcia: But it's funny we tangent it on a funny movie. I think that would be RP.

[4:01] David Rigano: That's not in the book, yes. They had their own amazing things. She brought such an incredible group of writers in to write essays about a bunch of the female-led comedies that had been featured in her movie series.

[4:17] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Absolutely.

[4:18] David Rigano: And they it was an array of them and of all different types of comedy because you have the Sandra Bullocks of Miss Congeniality, but then you also have the Molly Shannons of Superstar, and it's a very different comedy.

[4:30] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yep.

[4:30] David Rigano: But they're both so good. I could watch Molly Shannon do anything. Like truly.

[4:45] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And did you you are yes, of course you did, because we talked about it. White Lotus.

[4:49] David Rigano: Oh, yeah, definitely.

[4:51] Mark-Eugene Garcia: She was terrifying.

[4:54] David Rigano: I forgot that she was in that.

[4:56] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And it was it was all of her comedic timing, but it was just used in such a because her character was so awful, and she was legitimately scary.

[5:10] David Rigano: Oh, yeah. You were like, I'm not comfortable being in the room with this woman.

[5:13] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And it wasn't like an SNL character on like awkwardness. It was so she used all of that comedic timing and that way to cut right to the core of an issue, and she did it with a character who was like saying funny things, but it was not funny.

[5:32] David Rigano: No, not with the way she was doing it.

[5:33] Mark-Eugene Garcia: It was wonderful.

[5:34] David Rigano: Yeah, it was brilliant. She really is. And I remember when I was at FAO, I was a Toy Soldier, and I met this woman who looked like Molly Shannon.

[5:42] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Oh, yeah.

[5:42] David Rigano: Like we're having this whole conversation. And I'm like, So what are you? Are you visiting? Blah blah blah. And she's oh yeah, I'm like just in from LA. And like, oh, that's cool. The whole this whole like 20-minute conversation.

[5:52] Mark-Eugene Garcia: She leaves, and it dawns on me. That was actually Molly Shannon.

[5:57] David Rigano: I worked at a Trader Joe's, that I will not say which one. And one of our regulars was Rachel Dratch.

[6:06] Mark-Eugene Garcia: There you go. Nice.

[6:07] David Rigano: And it got to the point where we all just like knew her and said hi. And we'd all had conversations. But one of my favorite moments, there was a woman, just slightly older woman who worked there who was at the register in front of me one time.

[6:23] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And Rachel Dratch got to her register, and she was ringing up her groceries, and she goes, "You know who you look like?"

[6:34] David Rigano: And Rachel Dratch goes, "Yeah."

[6:38] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And she goes, "Is it you?"

[6:40] David Rigano: And she goes, "It's me."

[6:41] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And by the time they were finished ringing up the groceries and leaving, they were hugging.

[6:45] David Rigano: Oh, that's amazing.

[6:46] Mark-Eugene Garcia: It was it was the most adorable thing to witness. See, pardon me with the thought it was gonna be something like, and your total is 250 dollars.

[7:00] David Rigano: Well, we've had our fun talking about some funny ladies. Let's delve in to this podcast and let them talk about it too.

[7:07] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah. So do you want to start off reading a little excerpt?

[7:13] David Rigano: Yeah, I'd love to. I'm gonna skip around a little bit. But this is from the intro of my book, The Hole Enchilada.

[7:22] Elizabeth Teets: So this project came out of a film series I do at the historic Hollywood Theater in Portland, Oregon, and the film series has the same name. Isn't She Great? So for the last five years, pandemic permitting, I have programmed and co-hosted my film series, Isn't She Great, at Portland, Oregon's historic art house, the Hollywood Theater. I host this series with my best friend Anthony, who would not co-hosting with me, is better known as the celebrated drag clown Carla Rossi. Andy and I start and I started the show with one main goal to show the direct link between beloved women's center comedy films and the women's stand-up comedians working today. We lured the audience in by showing something that will tickle their nostalgia bone, Legally Blonde or Romy and Michelle, and introduce them to one of my favorite up-and-coming comedians who does a short set before the film.

It has been the project I've been most proud of in my time as an artist, not only for the opportunity I have been able to give the performers. For many it is their first time that they have performed for a sold-out theater, but for the connections I have made with the audience. By showing my favorite films, I've been able to connect with them in a new way. And here's that audience how would a joke I've heard so many times I no longer recognize it and get to laugh again. I can see the struggles and challenges the women face in the film are the exact same struggles and challenges of the audience. By seeing Elle Woods or Andy Sachs overcome, it feels like we can carry on. Maybe I'll just need to dress a little better and hold our heads up a little higher. Or maybe like Bridget Jones, we are perfect exactly as we are.

[8:47] Elizabeth Teets: In 2008, prior to the start of my series, I went to the Hollywood Theater to watch a sold-out screening of Nine to Five, the 80s workplace comedy starring Lily Tomlin and Jane Fonda and Dolly Parton. In the iconic film, exhausted by their toxic work culture, the women form a plan to get back at their sexist and egotistical line hypocritical big boss. Naturally, the original plan goes horribly wrong, and a comedic adventure ensues throughout the wacky 80s hijinks. Together with their skills, cunningness, gingham blazers, and the power of female friendship, they're able to get back at their boss and make a more pleasant and equitable workplace and live in corporate capitalism happily ever after.

It's a movie they rarely let women make. Each actress plays a truly unique and fleshed out character. None of them have love or interests that are relevant to the main plot, and no one dies or goes to prison or falls in love with someone who they originally thought was an asshole. For once, women are allowed to go on a journey, and this time we can also bring our friends. The movie addresses sexual harassment, the unpaid extra roles when playing the workforce, and the glass ceiling in ways even movies today shy away from. While sitting in the theater, two years after the election of Donald Trump, a few minutes before the film started, the host who was showing the movie in relation to a charity came on stage.

She announced to the audience that the news had just broken that the Weinstein Company had filed for bankruptcy. The 389 women that filled the auditorium let out a final scream of joy and release. At first we applauded, and then together we cried. A lot had happened over the last few years, and despite who sat in the old office, we are finally making progress. Watching Nine to Five has always been a somewhat bittersweet experience for me. It's a hilarious movie with an all-star cast, the clothing they wear is iconic, and my queer awakening by Lily Tomlin when I saw her on screen that the movie is disheartening simply because it's too familiar. The workplace harassment and nagging is the same in the movie as it is for me today.

I have worked for several versions of the woman's evil boss, Mr. Hart, each one slightly different, some of them Democrats and some of them Republicans, but each one's views the same sexist shit at me. I believe there is equality in the workplace simply because I'm allowed to be there. From the boss who told me he didn't know how to talk to me since I didn't like the comments he made about my body, to the manager in another department who yells at women on board every time I step on his floor to stop his colleagues from making sexist jokes for five minutes. I might overhear to me, my daily cup of aggression is running empty. Watching the film continues to show us the same that as much as things change, things continue to stay the same, but hope is on the horizon.

[9:54] Elizabeth Teets: In 2020, I was showing the movie again at the Hollywood Theater as part of Isn't She Great? I played Nine to Five in the same auditorium three days after Harvey Weinstein was found guilty of one count of criminal sexual assault in the first degree and one count of rape in the third degree. I celebrated with the audience on stage before the film, but this kind of progress felt like more of a baby step. I'm gonna skip a little bit. In The First Wives Club, there's another movie I show for Isn't She Great? There's a famous line uttered by Bette Midler that was changed allegedly when she asked Goldie Hawn's character, at least Elliot, in regards to her plastic surgery, if she'd had a little bit or a full or the whole Ivana.

This is a reference to Ivana Trump, Donald Trump's first wife, who was famous for her mini cosmetic procedures. Later, the line was changed to the whole enchilada in order to not offend Ivana Trump. It is a line I say to myself often, am I going to settle or am I going to have the whole, or am I going to want the whole enchilada? Ivana Trump spaked a short cameo as herself in the last scene of The First Wives Club. It is particularly juicy to see Ivana in a movie that is so much about New York, considering her ex-husband negotiated similar roles in many other Manhattan-based movies of the era in exchange for shooting on properties he owned. Despite this, before we showed the film, Anthony and I felt her short appearance was something that we had to prep the audience for.

We were unsure how the audience would react to seeing any member of the Trump family on screen. What resulted was the best show for me personally of our entire run. We screened the film right before the 2018 midterm elections using Ivana Trump's iconic line, "Don't get mad, get everything." We prepped the audience before her presence and for the fight that was still to come. Now remember everyone, turn to your ballots because this midterm, we are not going to get mad, we are going to get everything. When Ivana appeared on screen, the audience screamed louder than they ever had before. Not for Ivana herself, but for what she represented in that moment, justice. I took the energy from the audience's screams and applause when Ivana appeared at the end of the movie with me as I cast my ballot.

[13:39] Elizabeth Teets: And we did everything, and we did get everything. That midterm, we elected more women in Congress than in the history of the nation. We elected a group of congresswomen later known as the Squad and the youngest woman ever elected to Congress, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. In 2020, before the midterm elections, and after the Supreme Court had struck down abortion rights, endangering women across the United States, I tried to recapture this moment of urgency. This time I chose the show of the film Election, a film I loved but had not yet felt was the right it was right to screen. Election is a dark comedy starring Reese Witherspoon as Tracy Flick, an ambitious high school student in Iowa running for class president.

Although the movie revolves around her campaign, she is technically the villain of this film. The protagonist instead is her teacher and student government advisor played by Matthew Broderick as Jim McAllister as he attempts to sabotage her campaign as he feels disgusted by Tracy's ambition and threatened by her already developed sexuality, even if the development of that sexuality came from inappropriate relations with one of Jim's fellow teachers. Although most of the viewers of the film sympathize with Tracy Flick more than her resentful teacher, I still wasn't ready to show a film with a female lead that was intentionally off-putting. But as I watched Women My Life prepare for our world post-Roe, I realized I didn't care anymore that the world needed to be exposed to more women who were unlikable, sexual, and ambitious to a fault if anything was ever going to change.

Election revolves around Tracy's student body presidential campaign. Jim, noting that Tracy is running unopposed, convinces Paul, a popular football player, to run simply so Tracy had opposition. At the election's climax, Jim tries to hide votes and steal the election from Tracy so he doesn't have to work with her as student body advisor. But mostly he cannot stand the look on her face when he thinks she has won. Jim tries to give the position to Paul, his candidate who's far less qualified for the job and also seems to have no interest in student government. Like many women my age, too many men have not wanted to work with me, and too many have robbed me of opportunities simply because they don't want me to suffer.

They don't want to suffer from me having any type of success. They would rather inconvenience themselves than allowing my whole enchilada. Something I've reflected on over and over again in our current political system. The best part about Election is that although we laughed at Tracy, she has a wonderful character full of many flaws and great lines. We mostly laugh at Jim, not with him, at him for being small, for being misogynistic, for being threatened by a teenage girl. Eventually, Jim McAllister's plan fails, and seeing Tracy on screen triumphant gives me a glimmer of hope for the future, despite this doom I still feel lingering. I've got the privilege to spend my Saturdays with hundreds of women watching my favorite movies, True Beverly Hills, Bridget Jones's Diary, and Working Girl to name a few.

During each show, I watch the movie in a new way, and the audience breathes life into the film, reflecting it back. I sit in the middle of the auditorium, wide awake, hearing how other women see themselves in each situation. I really just the laughter lines that I've heard hundreds of times before are funnier than I originally thought. Every single edition of Isn't She Great has been magical, even when the audience feels smaller than it should be, or the rest of the world feels impossible. There's specific power in a funny woman, a woman who dares to laugh at the world at herself, even when falling flat on her face. We love them and the movies that they made. These movies made us strong and smart and sexy and bend and snap a lot.

At the end of the day, we remind ourselves that the world only tries to let us have a little money, a little confidence, a little joy to go out and not get mad and look at the whole enchilada. Thank you.

[17:26] Mark-Eugene Garcia: So I love the idea of that series. Thank you. What prompted you to turn that series into a book, and how much of what was done in the series wound up in the book?

[17:42] Elizabeth Teets: So obviously, like I've been doing this series for five years, and there's I think 12 essays in the book, so yeah, not all this is just like a taste. So there's like a few different reasons. One, when I was a kid, I read a lot, like what got me to write because I read a lot of zines, which are very much like time and place. I read like a lot of comebus and other zines where people would just write about things that were in a city I'd never been to, and like part of an art scene I had no knowledge about, and so I really wanted to have something in that transition of like a record of something that had happened. Like I still love to read about like a drag show that happened in the 60s and what happened there.

So yeah, yeah. So it really was like my record of my show and how like special and important it made me feel and the audience feel. And I do hope that I host this film series for the rest of my life. It's like my dream because I live in LA now, but I fly back to Portland to do it. It's like my dream that like I'm hosting a show and I'm 80, and I like there's like multiple generations of women that I like that went and saw movies that I hosted.

[18:50] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Have you seen SUS yet while you've been here?

[18:52] Elizabeth Teets: No.

[18:53] Mark-Eugene Garcia: What you're describing feels, and I'm not gonna I don't want to give much away, but it is also history. It feels to me like the last scene in Seth's. Oh and Alice Paul is like in her 80s and still doing the thing, and the young up like the young feminist in comes in who has no idea what Alice Paul had been through to get the vote and all that. So go see SUS.

[19:17] Elizabeth Teets: Okay.

[19:18] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Written by past Drama Book Show guest Shayna Tao. But also, speaking of which, I flipped through these the titles for your essays, and between we've got Bring It On, First Wives Club, Legally Blonde, you mentioned Nine to Five, and all of those have been adapted into Broadway musicals.

[19:40] Elizabeth Teets: Yeah, yeah.

[19:41] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And I do think that musical theater has such a rich history of strong leading ladies.

[19:50] Elizabeth Teets: Oh, because they're the ones who can like really sing.

[19:52] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yes.

[19:52] Elizabeth Teets: Yeah. That these kind of comedies are the ones that feel like, of course, of course, our amazing three women in 9 to 5 must sing new Dolly Parton songs on a Broadway stage.

[20:07] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah.

[20:08] Elizabeth Teets: Of course, and Bring It On, of course, partly written by the owner of the house that we're in, Lin-Manuel Miranda. So when you were picking the specific movies that you wanted to include in this book, how much of it had to do with the impact that these movies had as part of the series, and how much of it had to do with who wanted to write what for their essays?

[20:36] Elizabeth Teets: Oh, okay. So it was so like when I was picking out like who was gonna be in the book and like what the essays were, I had a few friends who like I'm a big fan of their writing that I definitely wanted to include, and so I like asked them, I was like, I'm doing this project. Do you want to write, what do you want to write about? And so a few of them picked, and then I also to add diversity to the book, and then I felt like the book was an extension. I'm really into giving women their first opportunity, like their first foot in the door. It is really true that for a lot of the stand-up comedians that do my show, it's their first sold-out theater. And I make sure that they're prepared and they're talented enough to be able to handle a room, but a lot of times it's like they've been able to handle a room that size for years.

It's just no one gave it to them. And so, like, when I was picking people that were gonna write for the anthology, like I wanted to pick writers who I knew were good enough to be in a book and like strong enough essayists to be in an anthology, but just hadn't no one had said, like, come on, I'm a big John Waters like freak, and he's like a big obey, put your thumb out and wait for somebody to say, Come with me. And I really want to be, if I can be the person that says come with me.

[21:42] Mark-Eugene Garcia: You want to be John Waters for someone else?

[21:44] Elizabeth Teets: I do want to be John Waters for someone else. It's a wonderful thing to aspire to.

[21:49] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah, totally.

[21:50] Elizabeth Teets: So I did do an open call that I put on Twitter, and then I had like different or the house formerly known as Twitter. Uh yes, and like did definitely have some different. I think there's like black writers of Twitter picked it up in a few other places, so I could just have different diversity, and then that there's also that's why a few of the writers are actually like UK-based, so people that I would never have interacted with in like my daily life. And just in the Google form I created, it was like, What movie do you want to write about and what's your pitch? So I got a lot of pitches for movies that I was like, Oh okay.

[22:25] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Was it that movies that surprised you that people would want to write them, or were there movies that you were like, I don't actually know that one?

[22:31] Elizabeth Teets: There was a few that I like did not know, and then so I did it's not in this book, but like the most I just didn't find a pitch that like really spoke to me and felt right, and had I felt like it was enough of a story, other than I also did this. But I think the most pitched film was My Big Fat Greek Wedding.

[22:49] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Uh-huh.

[22:50] Elizabeth Teets: But it felt like every essay was like, I also had a big wedding, and I was like, so yeah, that's not what this book is about. And I get that it was probably like funny for them, but I just didn't feel there was if there would have been one that like I also had a big wedding and I like accidentally crushed a government. I would have been like, tell me more.

[23:10] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Sure.

[23:10] Elizabeth Teets: Yeah. But I like I also feel like Mia Vardalis's character and the fact that she wrote and starred in that movie. I feel like there's a lot. I hope that someone pitches you a really good.

[23:22] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Let's put this out into the podcast sphere. I hope that someone really pitches you a good pitch for that movie.

[23:27] Elizabeth Teets: I would love to make another iteration of this book. I would love to do another iteration of this book. There is, like I just said, I'm like a John Waters super fan. There is no, there was supposed to be some John Waters representation. Somebody was supposed to write about Serial Mom and then they ended up in a real-life custody battle, which is like hilarious, but they couldn't write the essay.

[23:46] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yes.

[23:47] Elizabeth Teets: So I definitely want them for the next iteration. And then I also bullied my way into making the drag legend Peaches Christ give a copy of this book to Elvira. And then was like, I made Peaches Christ give this book to Elvira and Elvira's not even in it, and now I feel so bad.

[24:03] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Uh-huh.

[24:04] Elizabeth Teets: So yeah, so there's some dolls for another book.

[24:07] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah.

[24:08] Elizabeth Teets: But speaking of the writers who are in this book, you brought some of them with you today.

[24:14] Elizabeth Teets: I did. I had to bring some of them with me. Do you want to bring our guests out?

[24:18] Mark-Eugene Garcia: I always love to bring our guests out. Everybody that's coming up is so talented. So I'm just gonna introduce them all at once. I'm gonna read everyone's bio that's in this book. If that's okay.

[24:29] Elizabeth Teets: Okay.

[24:31] Mark-Eugene Garcia: So Samantha Mann is a Brooklyn-based essayist. She is the author of Putting Out: Essays on Otherness. She edited the anthology, I Feel Love: Notes on Queer Joy. Please welcome Samantha Mann.

[24:49] Samantha Mann: Come take a seat wherever.

[24:54] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Yeah. And then Yael Krinsky is a writer and comedian based in Boston where she works in TV and film production. She holds a writing and performance degree from Bard College. She currently lives with her dog Midge.

[25:15] Mark-Eugene Garcia: And then my famous member of my group chat. Her work has been published in The New Yorker, McSweeney's, Chandelain, Glamour, and Style in and More. Her book Build Your Own Romantic Comedy released by Ulysses Press in March 2020. For more about Lana as well as introductions on how to pronounce her name, visit LanaLakeBanana.com.

[25:42] Elizabeth Teets: Yes.

[26:01] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Sam will start with you.

[26:03] Samantha Mann: I chose Jawbreaker, and as my essay explores, Jawbreaker is actually a movie that helped me get my first French kiss of miss with tongue if you're not familiar of like sexual thoughts and impulses while my friends were like a little bit more demure. I liked dark stuff, like murder shows. My friends wanted to gossip, which was all fine. I just felt very different from my friends. And the women in Jawbreaker, the characters are very dark. They're very a murder does take place amongst the high school. They're very open with their sexuality, they're not shamed by their sexuality, gender, and sexual orientation is played with as like a closeted lesbian. That was like really fun for me to see in a not-threatening way, and not a serious way. It's not a coming out story. Everybody's sexuality is just there for fun. So it really instilled in me a lot of confidence about what society was telling me was like dark or bad parts of myself.

[27:06] Mark-Eugene Garcia: Awesome. Which movie did you?

[27:09] Elizabeth Teets: Yeah, I chose Superstar.

[27:18] Samantha Mann: Yeah, every single one of us was gonna help it. I wish I had a great answer to this, but I felt like I chose Superstar because there was no nothing else could have been my option. In that I watched that movie at age nine every weekend. I got to a point where I was inviting girls over for sleepovers, and we watched it every time to the point where like they would call and reject my offers of sleepovers because they knew that I would make them watch Superstar over and over again. Yeah, I think that Superstar is pretty unhinged. Mary Catherine Gallagher is unhinged, and I felt a bit unhinged at that age, and I felt also a little like hypersexual and like weird and awkward and not just typical. And then there's Mary Katherine Younger, who's like making out with a tree trunk and gets sweaty under her armpits and curses, and also falls in love with a weirdo, which is great, and she has a hairless dog. So all of those reasons felt like the only option.

[28:29] Lana Schwartz: Yeah, so I wrote about the First Wives Club, which has long been a favorite of mine, and I chose it because I think it's a really important depiction of friendship and kind of the importance of having people in your life who aren't exactly like you, who can push you to be better and help you realize like the best version of yourself, even if the process of getting there is a little messy, even if you have to hear things that you don't want to hear, and I think that's a really important part of sustaining lifelong friendships.

[29:06] Elizabeth Teets: And then Elizabeth, you also wrote an essay.

[29:09] I did, I wrote about Legally Blonde.

[29:13] Samantha Mann: So what drew you to Legally Blonde specifically as the one you were gonna tackle in your own duck?

[29:18] Elizabeth Teets: Because I wouldn't let anybody else write about it.

[29:21] Samantha Mann: Absolutely.

[29:30] Elizabeth Teets: She was like the only person I could like maybe get it to. She was like, I was like, Lana, what do you want to write about? She was like, I think First Wives Club. I was like, oh, thank God. Because anyone else I would have been like, what do you want to say?

[29:48] Samantha Mann: So for all for all assembled, and feel free to just shout out whenever something comes to your head. What is your personal standout comedic performance from a woman-led comedy? Be it the one that you wrote about or a different one.

[30:08] Elizabeth Teets: I've just re-watched Mistress of the Dark, speaking of all that. And like again, like I'm embarrassed she's not in the book. She's so good.

[30:18] Samantha Mann: That's one that I've seen like critical essays about, but I haven't actually seen.

[30:26] Elizabeth Teets: I feel like I know so much about it from watching other people talk about it, but I have to I have to actually see the movie.

[30:31] Samantha Mann: Give yourself that gift.

[30:32] Elizabeth Teets: Yes.

[30:34] Samantha Mann: I'm definitely thinking of the Melissa McCarthy and Rose Brynn duo. I don't have are we familiar with Spy?

[30:43] Elizabeth Teets: Yeah.

[30:45] Samantha Mann: Makes me happy to put on any time that it's on. And obviously, Melissa's comedy is so physical, which I can't even think of other women that have that much physical comedy in films still, which seems so silly that it's really just her, maybe Kristen Wiig. So that really stands out to me in that film. And also Rose Brynn is funny as hell, and I don't think she always gets credit for that. Like the quiet way she is in that film of being that rich oligarch, essentially, nothing is funnier. So that definitely sticks out for me.

[31:27] Elizabeth Teets: Oh yeah.

[31:27] Samantha Mann: Yeah, in When Harry Met Sally. Which is not like your typical, it's not as physical comedy driven as Molly Shannon, or yeah, I was also thinking Bridesmaids. I feel like that movie, the physical comedy is so heightened and brilliant, but Meg Ryan, just that scene, I it's etched.

[31:45] Elizabeth Teets: Yeah.

[31:46] Samantha Mann: But I also think every bit of that movie is so character comedy. You understand those characters so strongly. I think my favorite line from that movie is when she's crying and she goes, and I'm gonna be 40. And he says, when, and she goes, someday! And it's so in line with everything that you know about her character that it's funny because she 1000% believes that. Yes. And to make an orgasm funny and spot on is brilliant. Not everybody is up to that one.

[32:20] Elizabeth Teets: In like Captain's Deli, yes. Surrounded around quite special. And I was recently down there, you can't get in. There's a line down the block because of that movie. I wanted I've never been and I wanted to go, and then I found a sandwich with $30.

[32:35] Samantha Mann: Oh yeah.

[32:36] Elizabeth Teets: Oh yeah. Not the sandwich to get, I would say, better sandwiches, better go to Second Avenue Deli. My favorite part, one of my favorite parts of that. Is when he says about Helen, he's like, She looked weird, and he's just I've never seen her before. He says it in such a funny way. But my answer to the question is the I don't know if anyone's seen the movie Big Business.

[33:02] Samantha Mann: Yeah, yeah.

[33:10] Elizabeth Teets: Starring Bet Midler and Lily Tomlin, and it is the stupidest movie I've ever seen, and I know it's the highest complimentary. Also, I think we should specify starring Bet Midler and Beth Midler. Yes, and Lily Tomlin and Louis Townlin. And he hate this paper by Garling Happy. It's so dumb. And I love I'm I honestly have maybe never laughed harder because the concept, it's like they are two sets of twins switched at birth. Yeah. One of each of them switches. One of each of them switches at birth. Then many years later, hijinks ensue. And it's funny. And they're both perfect in this. So highly recommend it. And then there's press on nails.

[33:42] Samantha Mann: Yes. Also important.

[33:45] Elizabeth Teets: Yeah. I also think that like when we're talking about women-led comedies, going back to When Harry Met Sally really quickly, to leave Nora Ephron out of the conversation would be such a huge mistake because she was such a huge voice for comedies for New York-based comedies and for women-led comedies. And for someone to have permeated the zeitgeist as many times as she did, as well as she did, I think she's just one of the greatest out there.

[34:17] Samantha Mann: I was also trying to think about I'm like, oh, what are my and I saw people in the audience kind of going, oh, what would mine be? And the first thing that came to my mind when you were talking about which is like movies that make you so happy to watch them. And I think it's not a woman-led comedy, but Marisa Tomei steals it so much and makes it her own. And I think everyone's nodding. And of course, we're talking about My Cousin Vinny. So My Cousin Vinny has been like a point of contention between me and my series co-host Anthony because I'm like, but the man is the lead. And he was like, but no, who is the man? And I was like, I actually don't know. I'm an Italian American. I love Joe Pesci too.

Yeah, and he's the title character. But yeah, she won the Oscar. She absolutely steals that movie. She has the best lines. Yeah, we are showing our first ever like but the women are not top billed. Actually, this month we're gonna show Young Frankenstein. Terry Garr and Madeline Kahn, two of our great geniuses. Exactly, which is why we're like, oh, I like Anthony was like, can we do Young Frankenstein? I was like, Yeah, I can't say no. But yeah, no, I would agree with you on My Cousin Vinny that it absolutely isn't a woman-led comedy. But obviously, Marisa Tomei's performance is so spectacular in that.

[35:46] Elizabeth Teets: So I want to put this to Elizabeth first, since you have curated this whole series, but this is gonna be for all assembled. How do you feel that comedy has evolved as we see a larger feminine presence in women-led TV shows and films?

[36:02] Elizabeth Teets: There's so many more arguments about what a comedy is now. And then it's like far as evolving. I mean, I think we're evolving in really positive ways as far as queer representation. But then something I've like really been has been like in my face as I've been doing like the press for this book and talking on like podcasts and other things, or just talking to people about movies, is like how much more money they used to put towards in like movies like this that were like geared towards women or just like date night movies. I did a podcast on Miss Congeniality, and we were all like amazed about the makeover scene in the airport hangar that like a studio paid to have an airport hanger for a 10-minute makeover scene, which I don't think anyone would do anymore.

So I think that's like the biggest change is they're not like putting money towards this like silly stuff is just and that's like what's causing things to suffer, but it's not the actresses or the writers' fault, it's it's like a money thing.

[37:06] Samantha Mann: Yeah, yeah. Anything that others have noticed about how you in a positive or negative way, how you've seen women-led comedy on TV and film evolving over the years.

[37:18] Elizabeth Teets: I think women, I've written about this recently, like women, single women, childless women versus moms. But I do think there has been a positive evolution for childless single women's storylines, Fleabag, Hacks. Oh, Insecure, of course. Having the relationship is not the main point, and their sexuality is allowed to be much more out there, bigger, flexible, a part of their whole self in a way that isn't in the way or even a big conversation. So I think that's great.

[38:13] Samantha Mann: Yeah.

[38:14] Elizabeth Teets: With Amy Adams, of course, coming out with Night Bitch. I do feel like we're headed in the right direction.

[38:18] Samantha Mann: Yeah.

[38:20] Elizabeth Teets: I think that women in comedy are less self-deprecating to make a laugh, and from a position also of started improv at Upright Citizens Brigade in 2011, like the height of just like that being so popular in New York City. And I remember feeling like we all have to be hating on ourselves to make a laugh. I have to, and it can't be like too gross that men are gonna think I'm gross, it has to be like just hitting rights. Uh-huh. And I think we've moved away, like from the original, like Roseanne Barr and like talking about hating ourselves. Like, I think we've moved away from what that really looks like to someone like Hannah Gadsby or Issa Rae, like these really empowered women using what I think in the past we would see as like tremendous obstacles to be successful in this world as like really huge strong points.

And that's really incredible. I still think there's a huge way to go, a long way to go, and but I think to see different diversity in the world of comedy is a is great, and I'm gonna end it with it's still I think we have a really long way to go.

[39:32] Samantha Mann: Yeah.

[39:32] Elizabeth Teets: One thing I feel like is still I've noticed a huge backslide in is just the depiction of abortion. If you watch a lot of like 70s comedies or 80s comedies, like a woman gets an abortion, she just does it and she doesn't have to feel bad about it, like Girlfriends and Dirty Dancing. I watched this movie Sheila Levine is Dead and Living in New York, which is a perfect title, starting Jeannie Berlin and I just and Roy Scheider, isn't it too? And yeah, I just feel like now it's either a complete abortion story, or characters go right up to the edge of getting an abortion and don't do it, or they won't even say the word abortion. And that is something I find extremely frustrating, especially when you consider like when you watch movies from 30, 40 years ago, they're just depicting it, and it's not even necessarily the point, so that is something that I feel like we've lost a lot of ground on.

[40:24] Samantha Mann: In media and in real life, yeah.

[40:26] Elizabeth Teets: Yeah, yeah.

[40:28] Samantha Mann: Do any of you have any questions for any or all of our authors up here?

[40:38] Audience Member: Really nice. Yes. I have it's a silly question.

[40:41] Elizabeth Teets: No such thing.

[40:42] Audience Member: Great. Okay. Are you all four of you familiar with the good for her cinematic universe out of curiosity?

[40:51] Elizabeth Teets: As in like the I don't know, have you all seen Hereditary?

[40:55] Samantha Mann: Oh, really?

[40:56] Lana Schwartz: Or like the Wanda and One Division.

[40:59] Samantha Mann: Yeah.

[40:59] Lana Schwartz: Characters that are like do something probably really awful, but also good for them.

[41:03] Samantha Mann: Yeah.

[41:03] Lana Schwartz: Yeah.

[41:03] Samantha Mann: Do you have a favorite in the good for her cinematic person? Out of curiosity.

[41:07] Lana Schwartz: Oh my gosh. I'm sure I do. I just have to think about it. Hold on. Do you have one off the top of your head to get the ball?

[41:16] Samantha Mann: I love Sarah Michelle Gellar's character in "Cruel Intentions." Love her. Bad person, great performance, great character.

[41:28] Lana Schwartz: Yeah, absolutely. Something that this is making me think, and you made me think of it earlier when you mentioned Roseanne Barr and the getting the joke, especially from something to do with her appearance. But I only recently, because the title and the cover image can be so off-putting. But I only recently watched "She Devil" for the first time.

[41:51] Samantha Mann: Oh yeah.

[41:53] Lana Schwartz: And she's so good. This is so good. And it gets, if you don't know it, they derive a lot of comedy from her appearance, and they've overdone it with the makeup and the prosthetics, and from both her appearance and her behavior. And her husband leaves her for Meryl Streep, who then winds up being just the worst, and she's gorgeous and she's beautiful, but she hates his kids, and she winds up being a dreadful person to him. Meanwhile, Roseanne starts like a charity for women in need, and she cleans up her appearance without having to lose weight.

[42:40] Samantha Mann: Especially to call the character She Devil in the first place, falls under that category.

[42:45] Lana Schwartz: I do have one. It's Ann Bowman in "Psycho Beach Party."

[42:51] Samantha Mann: Yes.

[42:52] Lana Schwartz: Yes. I feel like this is not an obvious answer, but in the vein of "She Devil," it definitely comes to her, obviously.

[43:01] Samantha Mann: But a really like silly one is a good one.

[43:04] Lana Schwartz: Oh yeah.

[43:05] Samantha Mann: A silly one that I kind of love is "Something Borrowed," which like it's I don't know if anybody's familiar with that movie besides Elizabeth, but it's Jennifer Goodwin and Kate Hudson, and basically, like they're best friends, but they really shouldn't be. And then it's a question of who steals the guy from who, but it's just funny to watch these awful people, but with the rom-com sheen of 2011.

[43:31] Lana Schwartz: Is that big sound? Where the movie kind of wants you to think that they're like one or two people are good, but they're really not.

[43:39] Samantha Mann: So it's very funny. It's a stupid movie.

[43:41] Lana Schwartz: And that's always fun. I know that you bring it up in parts of the essays in here with "Devil Wears Prada," that like ways in which the movie wants you to feel certain ways about certain characters, and yet you can go, or there's a whole like Tumblr and Reddit conspiracy about how Andy's friends are the worst.

[44:06] Samantha Mann: I'm like, I agree with them.

[44:08] Lana Schwartz: Yeah.

[44:10] Samantha Mann: Do you agree with the Tumblr and Reddit people or you agree with Andy's friends?

[44:13] Lana Schwartz: No, I don't agree with it.

[44:14] Samantha Mann: Okay, yeah, yeah. Absolutely not.

[44:15] Lana Schwartz: And her boyfriend is the worst.

[44:19] Samantha Mann: But the movie tries really hard to make it seem like their criticism of Andy.

[44:25] Lana Schwartz: Yes, that's early 2000s, and we don't want women to be doing too much.

[44:30] Samantha Mann: She's working too much.

[44:32] Lana Schwartz: Yeah, she's working at both.

[44:34] Samantha Mann: She's working under Anna Wintour.

[44:36] Lana Schwartz: She's working a lot. Of course she is.

[44:38] Samantha Mann: But it is that early, we don't want girl bosses, step on them.

[44:41] Lana Schwartz: Now we do want girl bosses, but actually, girl bosses are bad. So it's just like we're never gonna win.

[44:45] Samantha Mann: Do what you want to do.

[44:47] Lana Schwartz: Also, Amy from "Gone Girl," not really a comedy.

[44:51] Samantha Mann: But the first one.

[44:53] Lana Schwartz: Yeah, absolutely.

[44:56] Samantha Mann: It's a comedy just to put kill self question mark on a calendar.

[45:00] Lana Schwartz: My favorite part of "Devil Wears Prada" is always when he walks in and he's man, they charge five dollars a strawberry. I don't know why it's so funny.

[45:14] Samantha Mann: About the cost of strawberries and Dina Kills.

[45:20] Lana Schwartz: Would you put, and we've discussed it here, although maybe the whole point of the movie is just good for them, like the "First Wives Club" in that category.

[45:29] Samantha Mann: I'm hoping I've never seen the first one.

[45:31] Lana Schwartz: Get your letterbox down.

[45:33] Samantha Mann: You know what I think then? I think it would be great if we heard a little bit about "First Wives Club" from the book.

[45:39] Lana Schwartz: Oh, okay. Let's see.

[45:40] Samantha Mann: How spontaneous was that?

[45:44] Lana Schwartz: I might need to flip to the page. Give me one second.

[45:50] Samantha Mann: Okay, thank you.

[45:52] Lana Schwartz: It's page 78 for everyone reading along at home.

[45:55] Lana Schwartz: And I will read a little bit. I might jump around a little just so you can get the gist of the movie, but hopefully I don't I'll try to not spoil any too much. But okay. So this is called "The First Wives Club" and the dynamics of girl groups. One of my favorite jokes to make is if you and your group of high school female friends didn't have a name for your clique, you weren't that close. As a young woman, particularly before you're old enough to drink or do drugs or have sex, there are a few highs, quite like finding yourself enmeshed in a new group of female friends. All we want is as teenage or tweenage girls is to be accepted, to have sleepovers to attend, or girls with whom we can wear matching outfits. Plus, there's strength in numbers.

[46:40] Lana Schwartz: Becoming part of a group, whether or not it's a popular one, although it certainly helps that it's the popular one, provides a buffer against potential bullies and other types of alienation. It's human instinct. We want to be accepted by the herd, and if the herd calls itself juicy girls because every member wears juicy couture, and therefore everyone knows and recognizes a juicy girl, all the better. How many times have you heard a girl or a woman coo to another? I'm obsessed with you, or we're exactly the same. Being female can be a lonely experience. The knowledge that someone sees us, truly sees us, can be intoxicating. At that age, all you want is validation that you're normal. Whatever sort of intrusive thoughts you've had about the second oldest brother from Malcolm in the Middle have to be normal if someone else is having them too.

[47:25] Lana Schwartz: Throughout my life, I've been part of a few different girl groups of varying levels of popularity within our social strata. My senior year of high school, I was a member of one such group. We referred to ourselves as the Bear Bees. You can guess why, but please know as I type this and as I read. We had numbers based on when we joined the group. I was number 13, but from what I recall, our count at one point was as high as 18. So I might not have been first, I was also decidedly not last. We even had matching sweatpants to cry in our affiliation. They said Bear Bee on the butt. I believe my pair is still at the bottom of a closet somewhere. We were so thrilled to be part of something that we were willing to forsake our names for numbers.

[48:09] Lana Schwartz: And I don't personally know of cisgender men or cisgender heterosexual boys or men, beyond the fictional men of entourage, and the real men of the pussy posse slash bulk pack organized themselves taxonomically, but I think this is why a lot of them start bands. Filled with that pent-up reckless and reckless energy teenage girls have, always in need of an outlet, we seek our thrills wherever we can find them. For this group of teenage Jewish girls, it was by way of the blade. While every girl in the group had to show their work, so to speak, I was officially made a member so late that by that point they took whatever I told them about the hair on my vagina in good faith. A lot of us look back on what we did in our adolescence and say, that was stupid. I knew the Bear Bees was stupid even back then.

[48:55] Lana Schwartz: I went to a New York City Public High School with a population that counted as high as 4,500. There were so many of us, we were on a split schedule, the hours of our school days shifting each year. I never once had a lunch period, and the hallways were so crowded, students regularly got pickpocketed. There were far too many of us for any real social strata. There was no football team and ergo, no pep rallies, and no homecoming. This was and is a good thing. Despite the lack of traditional high school social hierarchy, I was lucky enough to have a strong group of friends. And yes, we did give our social circle a name, but it was an acronym of our initials, so it was dignified. And for the purposes of this essay, I will call us MASH. Yet there was still part of me that longed for the normalcy of a standard suburban high school experience, the kind I'd seen growing up in my favorite TV shows like Dawson's Creek and One Tree Hill.

[49:45] Lana Schwartz: The Bear Bee girls were not my high school classmates, but rather girls that I met through my participation in a Jewish youth group beginning in ninth grade. Compared to my high school, the youth group had a social strata so strong and dense, it was practically a class system. And while I'd been friends with the Bear Bee girls, there was an invisible line between us. They were popular and I was not. Or perhaps I should put it this way, they were hot and I was not. So perhaps you can see why I'd be willing to cement myself as a member of some sort of concrete grouping. It was unspoken, but the higher the girl's number, the closer she was to the flames of the inner circle. At 13, I was just lucky to catch the members.

[50:20] Lana Schwartz: In some ways, this felt normal to me. So many movies and TV shows I love mirror this sort of relationship, wherein the peripheral characters live in service to the protagonists, lucky if they could pick up a C story each week. I believe the sort of energy my friends had is what today we refer to as main character syndrome. Growing up, I did have at least one positive example of female friendship wherein the women didn't marry each other or simply exist as a sounding board for the lead. The "First Wives Club." I can't remember the first time I saw the "First Wives Club," but I can't remember a time in my life before I loved the movie. So many of my favorite 90s movies, the movies for the girls, gays, and theys, "A League of Their Own," "While You Were Sleeping," "True Beverly Hills," "Beaches," and the Nora Ephron Big Three, it felt like it was constantly playing on loop in one of the three televisions in our two-bedroom apartment throughout my childhood.

[51:09] Lana Schwartz: The above films, notwithstanding, female characters were frequently indistinguishable. For me, the go-to example is the Ashley's from the cartoon "Recess," who were the girl equivalents of Lemmings. And of course, there's the modern classic "Mean Girls," wherein Regina George's henchwomen had barely discernible qualities beyond stupid and insecure. And this is not to disparage "Recess" or "Mean Girls," two texts for which I have great reverence. All too often I'd see actresses saddled with the best friend role, wherein she doesn't have much to do except crack jokes and act as a sounding board for the lead. It was also, for some reason, very important that she had brown hair. While this was disappointing, I did find it relatable. Dodging various love interests was not a personal pastime, but using humor as a defense mechanism, yes, a million times.

[51:52] Lana Schwartz: And I mentioned that I was Jewish. The "First Wives Club" finds Annie, Diane Keaton, Brenda, Bette Midler, and Elise Gold in reuniting after decades of estrangement following the loss of their best friend Cynthia. Each of the women married not self-made men, but men who were molded and shaped by them. And once their husbands zapped up everything they could from these women, they ditched them for younger models. It's absurd, it's obscene, and it's a tale as old as time. In search of revenge, the three women formed the titular "First Wives Club." Together they pulled the rug out from under each of their respective ex-husbands. I have long said as a child, I never really pictured myself married, yet I always aspired to be a well-kept divorcee with a wit as dry as the gin in my martini. The idea that you need to be married someday to be divorced didn't really cross my mind. I believe I have the "First Wives Club" and Nora Ephron's general existence to thank for these aspirations.

[52:42] Lana Schwartz: As of yet to be realized, but still today firmly held. I loved all the film set pieces. I love the way it portrayed the New York City I grew up in, unrecognizable today, and as a young Jewish girl, I even love that Deborah's son has a bar mitzvah. Of course, because I'm a human being with a pulse, I especially love the movie's closing numbers set to Leslie Gore's "You Don't Own Me," and the way the women sing without abandon, having finally at long last become fully realized versions of themselves. When I rewatched the movie, the one thing that strikes me is how early in the film, Brenda accurately assesses their situation. We are a group, she says, and just like any girl group actually worth its salt, each of the women have a different role they play.

[53:20] Lana Schwartz: These three women don't try to emulate each other because each of them has their own distinct personality and they're better off for it. And while we don't get to spend too much time in the ill-fated Cynthia, we do know that she was out of all of them the most likely to succeed, leaving the audience to believe that while the triangle is still a square, she had her own distinct corner. Because these women are so different, Elise a vain actress, Brenda a body housewife, Annie meek and shy, they bump up against each other. They don't always get along, and certainly none of them are telling each other how perfect they are, but it's because of this that they drive each other to be better. If Elise only hung out with Hollywood types or Annie with pushover Connecticut wives, they would stay that way forever.

[53:57] Lana Schwartz: No one would confront Elise about her out of control drinking or push Annie to pursue what she wants or encourage Brenda to be softer, more forgiving. When the women first realize they want to take revenge against their husbands, we help them rise, we can help them fall, but they're unsure at first. So many people have told them that their best days are behind them that they've started to believe it. Elise implores them to think about everything they could achieve if all the first wives in the world joined forces. Brenda says they'd still need one amazing attorney, but Elise stands firm. All we need is us, she says. Together, they bring something different to the table. Together, they are greater than the sum of their parts. As we grow older, sometimes we ask ourselves why we're still friends with people with whom we surround ourselves.

[54:37] Elizabeth Teets: If we met them now, would we still be close? Are we holding on to a vestige of a past or something else? When it comes to *First Wives Club*, it might seem as though it's the latter, given that the women have drifted over the last 30 years, but eventually they come to realize that they need each other. In fact, odds are good that the reunion might not have ever happened at all had their friend Cynthia not, A, made her last wish for them to take care of each other, and B, served as a cautionary tale, the toll loneliness can take on a person. The movie's central conflict hinges not around the men in their lives, but the fact that an insult from a friend you love, respect, and admire hurts more than it came than if it came from anyone else.

They have the power to lift each other up, but also by the same token to tear each other down. Suffice it to say, I have lost touch with the rest of the bear bees. I fell on I fell out with them during and after college, and in the great migration from Facebook to Instagram and other various social platforms, I lost my ability and interest to give anyone's social media profile a cursory glance. I'm skipping a little, but I'd argue that just as in the *First Wives Club*, it's these differences that make for stronger friendships, ones that aren't without their complications or their challenges, but are all the more rewarding. Friendship can take many forms. To everything there is a season and a time and purpose under heaven, etc. We all get different things from different people in our lives, but for me, the friendships that are the most significant are the ones that are put to the test and still pass every time.

We may need to go our separate ways sometimes, but we can always come back together and laugh like we have for years, over a meal or while we watch an old favorite like *She's the Man*. And ultimately, should the time come, there's no one I'd rather dance down a cobblestone street singing "You Don't Own Me," remixed by Cardi B and Megan Thee Stallion. Thank you.

[56:22] David Rigano: I know that the majority of our listenership is gonna be on the podcast, but I do think this is the first time that a guest has made me blush like that. But you also in your description of the importance of girlfriend groups, like you got me thinking about certainly the Plastics, the Pink Ladies, the Heathers.

[56:46] Samantha Mann: Yes.

[56:47] Elizabeth Teets: I would say that *Heathers* falls under a great good for her category.

[56:53] Samantha Mann: Absolutely.

[57:00] David Rigano: I want to open it again to anyone who has any questions about anything that they've heard.

[57:04] Audience Member: Yeah.

[57:04] Audience Member: I want to ask about because I'm also a screenwriter and comedian. I actually just came from Melvin Mike to this.

[57:10] Elizabeth Teets: Awesome.

[57:11] Audience Member: So I kind of sort of I'm interested in knowing how you found each other in the first place, and then how like maybe just share some stories of how you came to be where you are now.

[57:24] Elizabeth Teets: Oh, sure. Lannon and I were part of a we both wrote for a satire site called *The Hard Times*. And then the men that were in charge of that site are acting up as men tend to do. So then we formed our old group chat with the just the women writers called the Hard Times Bitch group. And then Lynn and I blossomed out of that one. And then Samantha and I met through our mutual friend, Chloe.

[57:51] Samantha Mann: Well, the email first, not when did I even meet you in person for the reading of this book?

[58:04] Elizabeth Teets: Yes, in LA.

[58:05] Samantha Mann: Yeah.

[58:06] Elizabeth Teets: Book launch.

[58:07] Samantha Mann: Yeah.

[58:07] Elizabeth Teets: We've been online friends.

[58:08] Samantha Mann: We've done some Sun Sash.

[58:10] Elizabeth Teets: Yeah.

[58:12] Samantha Mann: Texting.

[58:13] Elizabeth Teets: Yeah.

[58:13] Samantha Mann: This very modern.

[58:15] Elizabeth Teets: Yeah. And then Yael and I became friends the very similar way. Our friend Caroline connected us for the book.

[58:23] Samantha Mann: Caroline said you have to have this writer in your book. That's how it happened.

[58:26] Elizabeth Teets: I saw into action learning from this conversation.

[58:33] Samantha Mann: Or you're on your phone on your way to a second book.

[58:37] Elizabeth Teets: Yeah, I'm glad that I used my phone for like good and not evil.

[58:39] Samantha Mann: Yeah.

[58:40] Elizabeth Teets: Make friends.

[58:41] Samantha Mann: So true.

[58:41] Elizabeth Teets: I'm glad you used your phone for good and not evil also.

[58:44] Samantha Mann: Many people do use their phone for evil, I would say.

[58:47] Elizabeth Teets: Yeah, that's true. I do like your question. How did you get here? I'm not exactly sure what you mean by that, but I think I know what you mean by that, and I love talking about this. I'm a psychologist by trade with like what I do, but I'm also a professional writer. But I think if you're new at something, whether it's comedy, stand-up, writing, I love to tell people like if you see anything I've ever written online, 95% of the time I hustle to put it out there. I think people have this idea that if you have one byline or one standup set, people are coming to you. Nobody's ever coming to you. So you always need to be creating your own things, finding your own group so you can create your own things together and just continually.

I started cold pitching editors eight years ago. I have no MFA and I have bylines in *The Cut*, *Vogue*, *Elle*, all over the place. I did that by just bothering people, getting good at my thing, and not even really being that good at my thing, mostly just like bothering people and pushing myself and inviting myself to places. I invite if there's a reading in the city that I'm really interested in, I will reach out to them and say, hey, let me know if you need a reader. Which I think is a secret thing that people don't know they can do.

[1:00:05] Samantha Mann: Agreed.

[1:00:06] Elizabeth Teets: People think that you're if you see people on stage that everybody is invited, I always tell people to invite yourself to things.

[1:00:13] Samantha Mann: Absolutely.

[1:00:14] Elizabeth Teets: I'm a big fan of an unhinged email. I feel like everything I've ever gotten in life is via unhinged email, and then as far as the way you get the email addresses to send the unhinged email to. This book exists because Samantha connected me with our publisher. That's the other thing is you have to be a friend to have a friend. So it's all like community. I feel like everybody knows if you're just like really thirsty, but you're not like down to hang. So, like, definitely be a I feel like people like look and see oh, all of these artists like hang out, and it's yeah, and they help each other because they're together.

[1:00:58] Samantha Mann: I wish you could name the podcast episode that everyone knows when you're really thirsty and I don't think that's how it works.

[1:01:07] Elizabeth Teets: We might be able to make that the by one of those great the name of the podcast episode will be, isn't she great? But we'll work that in there.

[1:01:07] Samantha Mann: Isn't she great?

[1:01:19] Elizabeth Teets: Don't be really scared.

[1:01:23] Samantha Mann: I also think just what you said in the beginning, I think is so impactful that some of the people that come to your show in Portland are it's their first packed room, but they've been ready for a packed room for a long time, and no one's given them the opportunity. And I think that I really I still to this day call myself a positive writer. I've been writing for over 10 years, and I remember with Caroline, I was she was the first person that looked at my writing and said, Do you see that this is a collection of this is a book? And I think that what's important also is paving way for other women. I don't mean to be trite when I say that, but truly, like I have now been published, and she saw that and took a chance and knew that I had a lot to say and had been writing for a long time.

And of course, like I think there's obviously a spectrum of making sure that someone's ready to has done that work, but not relying on the stereotypical things that we expect to see in order to give someone an opportunity for it.

[1:02:28] Samantha Mann: Absolutely.

[1:02:29] Elizabeth Teets: It's interesting, just like to throw something cultural on the side piece of people who I've been listening to Chapel Roan since 2019. Do you want to be one of people that has been listening to Chapel Roan since 2019? Or do you want to be like one of the people that has to like wait for somebody else to tell you what's cool? So it's like the same thing when I'm like booking or like choosing writers or whatever. I would way rather be like a tastemaker than like oh okay, like this person already has some heat. That's not fun to me. I also think this goes back to what you were saying about like it's about being willing to hang, is that you're gonna you're gonna make and keep your squad if you're the one who gives them the chance and if you're the one who believes in them versus if you're someone who is going out and chasing a name that was made by someone else.

Again, John Waters superfan, it all leads back to John Waters. Like the Dreamlanders, like those are like John's friends. But talking about somebody who's not in the book, but should be like Mink Stoll is like maybe the greatest comedic actress of the last 1200 years, in my opinion. Whose movies is she another John Waters movies because they're besties.

[1:03:41] Samantha Mann: Yeah.

[1:03:41] Elizabeth Teets: And to add to what Samantha said, like one thing that I always tell people is and the thing I have to tell myself, because it's like it's always ongoing. It's like it never you don't really stop like being a writer unless you literally like put your pen down forever, like or throw out your computer. I don't know. But like you're gonna constantly wrestle with these things, and I always say don't tell yourself no before someone else has. Yeah. So let someone else say no to you. You don't have to be the one saying no to you. So yeah. Also never bully your way into a room. Just make your own rooms. If you feel like you have to fight or bully your way in, or prove yourself to a man, just find your own room.

[1:04:24] Samantha Mann: I think that's that's sums up so many of these movies.

[1:04:29] Elizabeth Teets: Yeah. And it sums up you making this book.

[1:04:32] David Rigano: And we are back.

[1:04:34] Elizabeth Teets: I love laughing with them.

[1:04:35] Samantha Mann: Yes.

[1:04:36] Elizabeth Teets: Yeah. It's just and just like hearing hearing so many different I'm gonna start that again.

[1:04:46] Elizabeth Teets: And just hearing so many different takes and perspectives, especially like the nostalgia factor of what certain movies mean to people in their lives.

[1:04:57] Samantha Mann: Yeah, because you think about that that movies are more than just entertainment.

[1:05:01] Elizabeth Teets: Yes, they are. We go to the movies, we see them. But like for some people, me included, movies are a comfort. Movies are a way not to be alone. You put on a movie when you're doing the laundry or doing house cleaning, or you had a bad day, so you put on a movie you liked, or you realize, which is my absolute favorite, that someone you know and love has not seen a movie that you care about, and you put on a movie and watch them watch it.

[1:05:25] Samantha Mann: Yes.

[1:05:26] Elizabeth Teets: Like it's there's something, it's a shared experience. Archer came over and we watched *To Wong Foo, Thanks for Everything*.

[1:05:33] Samantha Mann: Oh my gosh, yeah.

[1:05:36] Elizabeth Teets: And I remember saying to them, I was like, okay, so two trigger warnings. First one is that while this is a very funny movie, there are a couple of moments that get very real and treat this topic very seriously. And they went, Oh no, am I gonna cry? I went, and trigger warning number two, I am going to cry. I always cry at this movie, and I know which part parts of the movie, and we not to completely call them out, but we both did separate like different things triggered us differently, but we both did. But it's yeah, cry with Archer.

[1:06:14] Samantha Mann: There is a movie that we've talked about, and we've not gotten the chance to organize it. But you haven't seen *In and Out*.

[1:06:22] Elizabeth Teets: No, I haven't.

[1:06:23] Samantha Mann: And neither has Archer.

[1:06:24] Elizabeth Teets: So that's the that's one that I want. And that I do love me some 90s games.

[1:06:30] Samantha Mann: Yeah.

[1:06:31] Elizabeth Teets: And that's that's what we were doing with *To Wong Foo*.

[1:06:34] Samantha Mann: Yeah.

[1:06:34] Elizabeth Teets: And like that is a movie where there's a moment that I don't want to spoil for you, but there's a moment where I think you're feeling very emotional, and then the joke kicks in and you laugh through your tears.

[1:06:48] Samantha Mann: Oh, those are my favorite.

[1:06:49] Elizabeth Teets: Yeah. Those are my absolute favorite. I love that.

[1:06:51] Samantha Mann: That's so that *Steel Magnolias* that's that.

[1:06:53] Elizabeth Teets: Oh my god, yes.

[1:06:55] Samantha Mann: That's that movie.

[1:06:56] Elizabeth Teets: Hit this.

[1:06:57] Samantha Mann: Go ahead, Melan Slugger.

[1:07:00] Elizabeth Teets: I told you that was my MMA name.

[1:07:03] Samantha Mann: *Steel Magnolia*.

[1:07:04] Elizabeth Teets: It's like *Steel Magnolia*.

[1:07:10] David Rigano: All right. Jumping from movies back to theater. Our next episode is to Broadway. Our next episode is *Broadway Melody*.

[1:07:18] Samantha Mann: Yes, by Jack Viertel.

[1:07:20] David Rigano: So we're gonna delve into that next time. But until then, remember to follow us on Instagram at Drama Book Show Podcast. Please subscribe to the Drama Book Shop on Eventbrite so you can be alerted every time we drop so you can be alerted every time we have a new event on our calendar. Don't forget to rate and comment. Comments. Subscribe all of the things to make people realize that they like us.

[1:07:44] Elizabeth Teets: Yeah. And remember that everything we talk about here can be found at the Drama Bookshop. And so can we. And we will see you at the bookshop.