This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:07] Christine Toy Johnson: Welcome to season five of the Dramatists Guild Presents: Talkback.

[0:11] Christine Toy Johnson: I'm your host, Christine Toy Johnson.

[0:14] Christine Toy Johnson: This season is all about how we can challenge the status quo and not only expand the canon of what plays are taught, read, programmed, and used to define the idea of what classics are, but also to ignite it with new actionable strategies.

[0:31] Christine Toy Johnson: To me, this is not about canceling the existing canon.

[0:35] Christine Toy Johnson: It's about being intentional about how we make space for additional, diverse, and inclusive stories, as well as reimagining often produced ones, so that the American landscape of storytelling is truly reflective of the gorgeous tapestry of people that inhabit it.

[0:54] Christine Toy Johnson: In this episode, I talked to Harmon dot aut about their career as an artist on the autism spectrum and their thoughts on how all theaters can be more inclusive to neurodivergent audiences.

[1:07] Christine Toy Johnson: Welcome, Harmon.

[1:08] Christine Toy Johnson: I'm so excited to talk to you today.

[1:11] Christine Toy Johnson: Will you please start us off by introducing yourself to our listeners?

[1:15] Harmon dot aut: Yeah.

[1:16] Harmon dot aut: Hi, Christine.

[1:18] Harmon dot aut: I'm Harmon dot aut, and they she.

[1:22] Harmon dot aut: And I'm a playwright and a visual artist and a musician.

[1:29] Harmon dot aut: Lots of things, lots of lovely things.

[1:33] Christine Toy Johnson: Yes, indeed.

[1:34] Christine Toy Johnson: Thank you so much.

[1:35] Christine Toy Johnson: I really wanted to start actually by asking you about a little bit about your journey because you are such a multi-hyphenate.

[1:43] Christine Toy Johnson: Can you tell me a little bit about how you came to be such a multi-hyphenate artist?

[1:50] Harmon dot aut: I can try.

[1:51] Harmon dot aut: I could say some of it is, I think, natural, and some of it by necessity.

[1:59] Harmon dot aut: I was born in a very small town in Kansas, rural poor, and so not a lot of access.

[2:07] Harmon dot aut: Some of what I do, I think, just started from wanting to express myself in ways, and because I couldn't communicate as a child, undiagnosed with autism.

[2:19] Harmon dot aut: I just I actually pieced together so that I could understand how what other people were doing with their mouths, because and their voices I couldn't quite figure it out.

[2:32] Harmon dot aut: So I would take my little play school tape recorder and just get clips off the radio, like Casey Kasem, and record my own voice and then surreptitiously record my family's and then pull the tape out and splice it together in my own little stories so I could understand the world.

[2:52] Harmon dot aut: And that's how it started.

[2:54] Harmon dot aut: It's because I think visually, I don't always say language is not my first language.

[2:59] Harmon dot aut: I'm always translating to speak.

[3:02] Harmon dot aut: So it starts, I suppose, from that, but autistic people tend to hyperfocus on a couple things, and it was just my unnatural bent wanting to announce my inner self to the world and singing at the top of my lungs, even when it was just noises until I could learn how to use my voice box better.

[3:25] Harmon dot aut: And it started from that and just progressed through I think a lot of things that when you're isolated, you know, community theater, the only thing in town, and then just doing things myself independently.

[3:48] Christine Toy Johnson: That is so fascinating.

[3:49] Christine Toy Johnson: I wonder when you started doing all of those things to express yourself.

[3:56] Christine Toy Johnson: Were you influenced by other people in your life or other sources?

[4:03] Harmon dot aut: Um no, I just figured things out.

[4:07] Harmon dot aut: I just honestly tearing things apart really to try to figure out how to do things, tearing pages out of books and cutting the words out and putting the words, pasting them in different arrangements so I could just try to figure out what words were doing.

[4:23] Harmon dot aut: Because I started reading very early, but I couldn't speak very well until later.

[4:29] Harmon dot aut: The splicing, I don't know.

[4:32] Harmon dot aut: I think it just occurred to me one day, oh, if I pulled this out, maybe I could cut this up and use scotch tape and put it back together.

[4:42] Harmon dot aut: A lot of those things are just trial and error.

[4:44] Harmon dot aut: And I think some of that comes from just the neurodivergence, and but I think, and also just being out in the middle of a field in Kansas and just not having any kind of access to anything.

[5:00] Harmon dot aut: Because obviously I was born before the internet.

[5:04] Harmon dot aut: So you had to create your own access.

[5:06] Christine Toy Johnson: Absolutely.

[5:07] Christine Toy Johnson: I think a lot of us do.

[5:09] Christine Toy Johnson: I mean, human kids do in general, but I think particularly it's one of my sort of things I'm really interested in now, is the kind of experience one has in rural places, but still to this day I feel very isolated.

[5:25] Christine Toy Johnson: And you just by necessity you create your own world.

[5:29] Harmon dot aut: Yeah.

[5:30] Harmon dot aut: I also want to ask you about finding your community so that you don't have to be as isolated and how that happened for you.

[5:41] Harmon dot aut: Uh theater happened, honestly, because my mother threw a newspaper at me one day when school was out and said, I don't want to watch you sit on your butt all summer.

[5:52] Harmon dot aut: Here's an audition.

[5:55] Christine Toy Johnson: Really?

[5:55] Harmon dot aut: Yeah.

[5:56] Harmon dot aut: It was a community theater production of "Oh, wait, ma'am."

[6:02] Christine Toy Johnson: Okay.

[6:02] Harmon dot aut: I know.

[6:03] Harmon dot aut: And I'd never done theater, but I was always running around singing because I figured out early that singing, I saw sheet music, and because it was on a grid, because I put a grid over my vision right now, so the sensory information doesn't take away all my attention.

[6:22] Harmon dot aut: I can focus on little cells at a time.

[6:25] Harmon dot aut: So singing made complete sense to me.

[6:28] Harmon dot aut: And because it was a musical, I was like, oh, there'll be more grids.

[6:33] Harmon dot aut: Like that's how that started.

[6:36] Harmon dot aut: And I just went and auditioned when everybody gets in.

[6:39] Harmon dot aut: And then I was like, oh, there are people here who do things like this.

[6:45] Harmon dot aut: Oh.

[6:46] Harmon dot aut: They're not just farmers and you know, they were cows.

[6:51] Harmon dot aut: So um, that's how I found the artists.

[6:54] Harmon dot aut: It wasn't until much later, though, that I found a tribe of autistic, neurodivergent, disabled folks, because I wasn't diagnosed until much later.

[7:08] Christine Toy Johnson: I wanted to ask you about seeing grids, what you mean by that, and how that does or does not impact your playwriting process.

[7:17] Harmon dot aut: Yeah, I'm imagining a grid in front of me.

[7:21] Harmon dot aut: So partly because I also have synesthesia and when senses mix together.

[7:27] Harmon dot aut: So like some people will look at letters and see color, but in my case, all of my senses are affected.

[7:34] Harmon dot aut: So it's an onslaught kind of of I always say this, my friends will probably be like, oh god, you said this again.

[7:41] Harmon dot aut: But for example, if I look at roses, I will hear bells.

[7:46] Christine Toy Johnson: Wow.

[7:47] Harmon dot aut: Certain words I'll have a taste.

[7:50] Harmon dot aut: So everything's mixing.

[7:52] Harmon dot aut: In order to not become overwhelmed, a lot of times, if I place a grid in front of my vision and then focus on a cell so I can focus on smaller parts, then I can tolerate more.

[8:08] Harmon dot aut: And I think that informs playwriting in a way because it was an enormous world when you get down to the granular like that when the real minute detail, which uh, you know, I can spend, for example, an entire day just mesmerized by one strand of hair.

[8:28] Harmon dot aut: And to me, it's like there's so much going on there, and I think it informs my writing in that I'm always thinking about the world that we miss because of all of the just busyness.

[8:46] Christine Toy Johnson: Yeah.

[8:47] Christine Toy Johnson: I don't know if that's really what you were asking.

[8:50] Harmon dot aut: Yes, no, it I'm so fascinated by your process.

[8:53] Christine Toy Johnson: I understand that you use pictures in addition to dialogue when you are writing a play, and I'd love to know more about that.

[9:03] Harmon dot aut: Yeah, it hasn't always ended up in the play, obviously, because it's really only been until recently where I think people were open enough to have a conversation like this about autistic, neurodivergent folks.

[9:17] Harmon dot aut: But I am I say it like this is the best I can say.

[9:24] Harmon dot aut: In I never have words in my mind.

[9:27] Harmon dot aut: It's most it's all color and shape and like fractals repeating pattern, and it's very much like having to labor to pull pieces of the color and the frequency and then translate that into words before I speak.

[9:48] Harmon dot aut: And that process feels more me if I can include drawing with the words.

[9:57] Harmon dot aut: To me, it's all the same thing.

[9:59] Harmon dot aut: This is the story, almost like hieroglyphics or pictograms.

[10:04] Harmon dot aut: So in some ways, I'm more and more I'm hoping that that might filter into productions of my work.

[10:14] Harmon dot aut: How does that translate?

[10:16] Harmon dot aut: And how do you teach people to read it?

[10:20] Christine Toy Johnson: Yes, indeed.

[10:21] Christine Toy Johnson: Do you how have this season we're talking all about igniting the canon and including more voices and different voices that we haven't heard?

[10:31] Christine Toy Johnson: I'd love to know what your thoughts are on how we can not only include artists such as yourself, but also serve the audience, the neurodivergent audience, and bring in all people to experience your kind of vision.

[10:49] Harmon dot aut: It's a big question.

[10:51] Harmon dot aut: I know.

[10:53] Harmon dot aut: I specialize in those.

[10:56] Harmon dot aut: Yeah, that's a lot of parts.

[10:58] Harmon dot aut: But and obviously, I really honestly can only speak for me.

[11:04] Harmon dot aut: Yes, of course.

[11:05] Harmon dot aut: But I think that we're talking about really different communication styles, which a lot of people have different communication styles and needs.

[11:18] Harmon dot aut: I have friends who are non-speaking.

[11:21] Harmon dot aut: So their needs are different.

[11:23] Harmon dot aut: I sometimes am non-speaking.

[11:26] Harmon dot aut: The visuals for me sometimes also take up room for speech that I cannot get out.

[11:35] Harmon dot aut: In terms of producing, I think it's simply a matter of getting in a room with great designers and a team, and making sure the team includes neurodivergent artists who do understand, I think, different ways of processing.

[11:56] Harmon dot aut: And just figuring it out.

[11:58] Harmon dot aut: We have so many tools now, digital, video, VR.

[12:04] Harmon dot aut: There's so many ways we can open up theater to be a sort of immersive experience, I think is what we're talking about.

[12:12] Harmon dot aut: And I don't think people should be afraid of that.

[12:15] Harmon dot aut: I hope they're not.

[12:16] Harmon dot aut: Because I do think that you can do a lot with a play and words just as we've mostly experienced in the theater.

[12:26] Harmon dot aut: But there's something about also immersing people in an experience that comes from the inside out.

[12:34] Harmon dot aut: Um I'm interested in that a lot, is really what is the experience from my gaze.

[12:45] Harmon dot aut: I want to take my gaze back.

[12:48] Christine Toy Johnson: Yes, yes, absolutely.

[12:51] Christine Toy Johnson: We'll be right back.

[12:57] Christine Toy Johnson: Welcome back. Harmon and I discussed the Spectrum Theater Ensemble and their mission to empower writers that identify as neurodivergent.

[13:07] Christine Toy Johnson: I wanted to ask you about the Spectrum Theater Ensemble. I know that you're currently in residence with them. Can you tell us a little bit more about that company and the program and how you got involved with them?

[13:20] Harmon dot aut: So Spectrum Theater Ensemble is a theater in Providence, Rhode Island, and their mission is to uplift and empower writers who identify as neurodivergent.

[13:36] Harmon dot aut: Because our stories just are not on any stage, really, maybe here and there, but it's not as you're talking about in the canon.

[13:43] Harmon dot aut: And we would love them to be in the canon.

[13:47] Harmon dot aut: And we would love our stories to be programmed into the seasons and the stories by us.

[13:53] Harmon dot aut: Um, you know.

[13:54] Christine Toy Johnson: Harmon, can you please tell us about the NICE program that STE has implemented?

[14:01] Harmon dot aut: Uh so we have an accessibility arm called NICE, which is a program that codifies methods for accessibility in art institutions.

[14:12] Harmon dot aut: NICE stands for neurodiverse Inclusive Certified Entertainment.

[14:17] Harmon dot aut: And it's just a fancy way of saying that it's a program to standardize the institutional sensory-friendly performances.

[14:28] Harmon dot aut: And if you think about what we're talking about, many people are affected by sensory sensitivities of all kinds.

[14:36] Christine Toy Johnson: Do you have an example of this that you want to talk about?

[14:38] Harmon dot aut: I'm working with the contemporary American Theater Festival in West Virginia with STE, and so we're going to work with them on implementing this.

[14:49] Harmon dot aut: And the example is that since my play is so much about synesthesia and my experiences with that, coming into the theater to be able to create methods for helping not only an audience understand the synesthesia experience they're immersed in, but also folks who are coming to the theater who have sensory sensitivities.

[15:29] Harmon dot aut: In my play, there's a lot.

[15:31] Harmon dot aut: So that's the first thing we give is an annotated script like that.

[15:34] Harmon dot aut: That's what we provide the theater.

[15:36] Harmon dot aut: And then the implementing it from the first production meeting through the process is about working with the designers, not to change what they're doing, but to find ways like using one example is warning lights on the very sides of the stage.

[15:53] Harmon dot aut: We've done this, and if you ask people, they never notice them.

[15:56] Harmon dot aut: But the neurodivergent people notice them because they're aware they've been told.

[16:01] Harmon dot aut: It's subtle, but it's enough to let people know and prepare.

[16:06] Harmon dot aut: And sometimes it also means that it gives them time to put on sunglasses if they have a visual sensory challenge to put on headphones.

[16:18] Harmon dot aut: We had a pilot program with ART is still ongoing.

[16:23] Harmon dot aut: And when there's anything new you're working through teaching the methods to folks who aren't used to it and establishing them, especially in a larger institution, it's just a slow process of getting people on board and getting people used to it.

[16:43] Harmon dot aut: The goal really is to be able to be in there from the beginning of production at the in a production meeting, so it becomes a part of the whole process.

[16:53] Harmon dot aut: It's a kind of holistic way of treating the theater that includes everyone.

[16:59] Harmon dot aut: And also includes things that we don't often think about, which is not just the performance, but how are people welcomed into a space?

[17:07] Harmon dot aut: It's one of the most difficult challenging places is the minute you enter the door, the lobby can be really challenging.

[17:15] Harmon dot aut: So yeah, it's a big idea since it codifies definitions and everyone's talking the same language.

[17:23] Harmon dot aut: The hope is that we can get more and more theaters to implement it.

[17:28] Christine Toy Johnson: Yes.

[17:28] Christine Toy Johnson: Yeah.

[17:29] Christine Toy Johnson: Yeah, that's so important.

[17:30] Christine Toy Johnson: I think that so many of the challenges that we have run into as an industry have been about educating people and breaking open these perceived barriers that we put up by ourselves by not having the knowledge, right?

[17:48] Christine Toy Johnson: And not leaning into the idea of being curious enough to find out about a community you know nothing about and then let that grow.

[17:57] Christine Toy Johnson: Um I wanted to ask you more about Spectrum Theater Ensemble. Part of the mission is to empower the neurodiverse community to achieve equal opportunity in society.

[18:07] Christine Toy Johnson: Do you see that STE is accomplishing this part of their mission?

[18:12] Harmon dot aut: Since I'm here, we'll use me as an example for please.

[18:16] Harmon dot aut: I met them because I submitted a just a short play to a call, just a call for open submission process.

[18:26] Harmon dot aut: I've been obviously at this for a very long time.

[18:30] Harmon dot aut: But the opportunity to submit a work that was specifically about, in this case, autism, with a character who's autistic and non-binary, you know, someone a little more like me was too enticing to pass up.

[18:49] Harmon dot aut: And I was fortunate enough that they selected my play.

[18:54] Harmon dot aut: And that's how I began a relationship with them.

[18:56] Harmon dot aut: And that's one of the areas that we use to reach out.

[19:01] Harmon dot aut: It just gives you an example.

[19:03] Harmon dot aut: The first year it was like 70 people, 70 writers sent in scripts.

[19:10] Harmon dot aut: It doesn't sound a lot like maybe a lot to some theaters, but that's a lot if you think about these are writers who maybe never have never written anything before or didn't think they could tell these stories, or like me, maybe had been writing these stories and only sharing it with friends in their garage or on the back of a truck, which is one fabulous place.

[19:34] Harmon dot aut: We used to do shows in the back of a U-Haul.

[19:37] Harmon dot aut: But so that's what we yeah, it's about that.

[19:39] Harmon dot aut: And right now we're working on funding, which is always the big problem, right?

[19:43] Harmon dot aut: And that is to develop for the resident playwright program, which is what I now as a resident playwright, and to really do a full development process for a full-length work and be able to produce that ourselves.

[19:57] Harmon dot aut: That's our journey right now.

[19:59] Harmon dot aut: We have a large festival too in the end of summer of a year that where we produce the short plays that we select.

[20:06] Harmon dot aut: And Providence is a great place, and people are very supportive.

[20:10] Harmon dot aut: More and more I think people are opening up to the site, this notion that we have really important stories to tell.

[20:20] Harmon dot aut: And I think the other good part about is to be quite honest, is I think for a long time people had a feeling, I think particularly about autistic folks, that we were just grown-up children and didn't have anything to add or offer, but we do.

[20:40] Harmon dot aut: That's one of the best parts for me is the idea that look, we're adults telling adult stories.

[20:47] Christine Toy Johnson: So yeah.

[20:48] Harmon dot aut: Yes.

[20:50] Harmon dot aut: I think for so many of us it's a revelation when you get to see a character on stage that even remotely resembles your life experience.

[21:03] Christine Toy Johnson: And I wonder if you could talk about that, seeing plays that you can directly relate to, and how I imagine how rare that is.

[21:16] Harmon dot aut: Oh my gosh.

[21:19] Harmon dot aut: Oh yeah.

[21:20] Harmon dot aut: It's been lonely in a way up to recent really recent times.

[21:25] Harmon dot aut: As I say, I've been doing this a long time and I think I conformed for a long time and wrote plays that people told me I should write.

[21:33] Harmon dot aut: And it wasn't until recently when I saw these short plays and these characters like characters who processed like me.

[21:44] Harmon dot aut: Their logic was like mine.

[21:47] Harmon dot aut: And really thinking about oh even the structure of a play can be fiddled with so that our processing differences are actually reflected in the structure of the play itself which means we need more neurodivergent people reading scripts that come in so that people there are the people there who know how to read those stories seeing that on stage and seeing my own work the first time I saw it I can tell you I burst into tears really I'm going to do it now and I'm really sorry sorry.

[22:24] Christine Toy Johnson: No please I think it was like I don't know the first time I think as an artist I felt like a human being yeah and I think also just it was also after the tears it was celebration and up and going yeah wow this is amazing these stories ring so let's do more.

[22:48] Harmon dot aut: Yes.

[22:49] Harmon dot aut: Yeah.

[22:49] Harmon dot aut: And you know that.

[22:51] Harmon dot aut: And then if your identity or who you are intersects with any any other sort of what we call marginalized, which I don't love that word, but just then it's like it becomes doubly, triple quote.

[23:04] Christine Toy Johnson: Wow.

[23:05] Christine Toy Johnson: Where has this been?

[23:07] Harmon dot aut: Yes.

[23:08] Harmon dot aut: Let's have more.

[23:09] Christine Toy Johnson: Yes.

[23:10] Christine Toy Johnson: Thank you so much for sharing that.

[23:12] Christine Toy Johnson: I really appreciate your your candor and your generosity with that.

[23:17] Christine Toy Johnson: So that is the question.

[23:18] Christine Toy Johnson: Let's have more.

[23:20] Christine Toy Johnson: How do we do that?

[23:23] Christine Toy Johnson: And I know that a lot of your work is in involved in doing that.

[23:28] Christine Toy Johnson: Do you have any other thoughts?

[23:32] Christine Toy Johnson: How we can all help not only amplify and illuminate autistic and neurodivergent voices like yours, but also help the audiences who need to have access.

[23:46] Christine Toy Johnson: And then the third question, this is another large question, I know I'm asking you, Harvey.

[23:51] Christine Toy Johnson: But the third, and because I want you to solve all these problems in the next five minutes.

[23:55] Christine Toy Johnson: Not really.

[23:57] Christine Toy Johnson: I know you could do this.

[23:59] Christine Toy Johnson: But part three is to, and I think I I alluded to this in an earlier question, but part three bringing in people who don't know about your work and your vision and cracking open, as I said before, these barriers that that start to be built up, really, I think, based on not knowing how amazing the world could be if we welcomed in all of the voices that we don't know.

[24:31] Harmon dot aut: I would love to know any of your thoughts on that.

[24:34] Harmon dot aut: Wow.

[24:37] Harmon dot aut: Yeah.

[24:37] Harmon dot aut: You inspire me, Harman.

[24:38] Harmon dot aut: So I you inspire me to ask you these questions.

[24:41] Christine Toy Johnson: Oh my gosh.

[24:41] Christine Toy Johnson: Thank you for anything you want to say.

[24:43] Harmon dot aut: I just gosh.

[24:44] Harmon dot aut: And when I want to like continue this now for let's just talk for the next year about first.

[24:50] Harmon dot aut: You and I talking one-on-one.

[24:52] Harmon dot aut: Great.

[24:53] Harmon dot aut: I love it.

[24:54] Harmon dot aut: I want to keep doing this, but expanding, talking to more folks.

[25:00] Harmon dot aut: Because remember that the word spectrum is there for a reason.

[25:06] Harmon dot aut: We're not a monolith.

[25:08] Harmon dot aut: So that's an important thing.

[25:10] Harmon dot aut: It's just to invite as many folks into the conversation as possible.

[25:15] Harmon dot aut: And it's not about pushing people out to make space.

[25:20] Harmon dot aut: I think for me, perceiving first, I hope, first and foremost with kindness.

[25:28] Harmon dot aut: And I hope a motto come up, Grace.

[25:32] Harmon dot aut: Sometimes not though, I get angry.

[25:34] Harmon dot aut: But sure.

[25:35] Harmon dot aut: Yeah.

[25:36] Harmon dot aut: It's just we can expand the space to make more room.

[25:41] Harmon dot aut: We're better together.

[25:43] Harmon dot aut: Yes, I think.

[25:44] Harmon dot aut: Honestly.

[25:45] Harmon dot aut: We're stronger together.

[25:46] Harmon dot aut: And much more interesting.

[25:48] Harmon dot aut: Much more interesting.

[25:49] Harmon dot aut: Yeah, there's a human spectrum.

[25:51] Harmon dot aut: We're just fabulous, gorgeous, wonderful variety of human beings with all kinds of glorious, amazing, gooey, weird, messy experiences.

[26:05] Harmon dot aut: That's the glory of theater when you get in a room and you can express all that no matter who you are.

[26:09] Christine Toy Johnson: Yes.

[26:10] Christine Toy Johnson: You know that for all of our talk about how do we tell these stories, that everybody is going to find something they're like, oh yeah, I feel like that's the goal, right?

[26:18] Harmon dot aut: So if we start with participation, we just want to participate as many people as we can in the room.

[26:25] Harmon dot aut: And that means not just the writers, but directors, designers, everyone too involved in a production.

[26:32] Harmon dot aut: We more voices who are neurodivergent, autistic, disabled.

[26:37] Harmon dot aut: But yeah, that is, I think that's the place we need to start because we need all of our voices and our talents in the room to make these stories happen.

[26:48] Harmon dot aut: I think that theaters hiring more neurodivergent, as I said before, readers to know how to read the material.

[26:57] Harmon dot aut: And more, I think more gatekeepers who are actually willing to be open to these what will appear to be sometimes it's different narrative forms because of the deprocessing differences and to be willing to actually ask why is this that way, rather than maybe just looking at going, oh, that's not a play and setting it aside.

[27:27] Christine Toy Johnson: Yes.

[27:27] Harmon dot aut: More and more I think we're going to see writers putting their processing actually into the structures of the plays.

[27:37] Harmon dot aut: And we need people who can help to teach people how to read them.

[27:51] Harmon dot aut: I honestly, for just from watching the audiences that come to Spectrum, they get so excited just by, oh my goodness, I've never thought of things that way before.

[28:02] Harmon dot aut: I'm like, great.

[28:04] Harmon dot aut: Now we can start talking.

[28:07] Harmon dot aut: Change, as we know, is all about being uncomfortable.

[28:11] Harmon dot aut: Let's just get comfortable with being uncomfortable for a while.

[28:15] Christine Toy Johnson: Yes.

[28:16] Christine Toy Johnson: It's okay.

[28:17] Harmon dot aut: Because I'm uncomfortable every day just leaving the house.

[28:21] Harmon dot aut: So meet us halfway.

[28:25] Harmon dot aut: Maybe.

[28:27] Christine Toy Johnson: How's that?

[28:28] Christine Toy Johnson: I wanted to say thank you so much for sharing your stories with me.

[28:33] Christine Toy Johnson: You might feel like today it's one-on-one, but our goal is, of course, to share this very widely with our listeners and to really amplify what you've had to say today.

[28:44] Christine Toy Johnson: It's so incredibly vital to the lifeblood of the theater to really include all of the voices, and I'm so excited to hear about your work and the work in your immediate community, and how I hope that it will become a part of the canon where it needs to be and where it deserves to be.

[29:11] Harmon dot aut: Yeah, I hope that I can just quickly say to all the members out there, every writer, but in particular neurodivergent, autistic, disabled writers, it's to keep writing and send your work out and to theater makers and 80s, etc.

[29:36] Harmon dot aut: That be open.

[29:38] Harmon dot aut: It's not hard, I promise.

[29:40] Harmon dot aut: It's not hard, and that I think is part of the fun of art, right?

[29:46] Christine Toy Johnson: It's different points of view.

[29:48] Harmon dot aut: Absolutely.

[29:49] Harmon dot aut: Yeah.

[29:50] Harmon dot aut: Our world is better for it.

[29:51] Harmon dot aut: There's no question about it.

[29:53] Harmon dot aut: And our art's better for it.

[29:54] Christine Toy Johnson: Yeah.

[29:55] Harmon dot aut: Yes.

[29:56] Christine Toy Johnson: Yes.

[29:56] Harmon dot aut: Thank you so much.

[29:58] Christine Toy Johnson: Thank you.

[30:07] Christine Toy Johnson: My thanks to Harman.

[30:09] Christine Toy Johnson: For more information on the NICE program and Spectrum Theatre Ensemble, visit www.steonsemble.com.

[30:20] Christine Toy Johnson: This episode was produced by Amy Von Masick and me, Christine Toy Johnson.

[30:25] Christine Toy Johnson: Our music was composed by Andrea Daly.

[30:27] Christine Toy Johnson: Recorded at John Marshall Media in New York City.

[30:31] Christine Toy Johnson: Special thanks to Tanglewood Productions in Reno, Nevada.

[30:35] Christine Toy Johnson: The Dramatists Guild Presents Talkback is a production of the Dramatists Guild of America and distributed by the Broadway Podcast Network.

[30:42] Christine Toy Johnson: Let us know what you thought about the episode by using hashtag DG Talkback.

[30:47] Christine Toy Johnson: As always, to be continued.