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[0:00] Mo Brady: You're listening to Way Down Hadestown, a miniseries from The Ensemblist, the only podcast that shows you Broadway from the inside out. Welcome, I'm Mo Brady.

[0:28] Mo Brady: Welcome to a new miniseries from The Ensemblist, where we speak to the entire ensemble of a Broadway musical. Well, there's only five of them, so it's not that big of a deal. Still, it's the first time we've sat down with an entire ensemble of a show, so it's pretty cool. Over the next five weeks, you'll hear one at a time from the complete ensemble of the newest Tony Award winner for Best Musical, Hadestown, about the characters they've created and the careers that got them there. Ahmad Simmons has performed in three original Broadway companies in the last four years, Cats, Carousel, and now Hadestown. In addition to performing choreography by Andy Blankenbuehler and Justin Peck, he was also featured this spring playing Ben Vereen on the FX miniseries Fosse/Verdon. In Hadestown, he plays Worker No. 4, as well as understudying the roles of Hermes and Orpheus. Here's our conversation.

[1:27] Mo Brady: Hi, will you introduce yourself and tell us what neighborhood of New York City you live in?

[1:37] Ahmad Simmons: Oh, great. I am Ahmad Simmons, and I currently live in Harlem.

[1:42] Mo Brady: And you're in the ensemble, the chorus of Hadestown. Do you have a name? Are you like Worker No. 4?

[1:50] Ahmad Simmons: I'm the infamous Worker No. 4.

[1:52] Mo Brady: You are Worker No. 4.

[1:53] Ahmad Simmons: Red pants is what I like to say.

[1:56] Mo Brady: How did you become Worker No. 4 compared to Worker No. 2? Do you know?

[2:01] Ahmad Simmons: No. I mean, all I know is that the guys are 3, 4, 5, and the girls are 1, 2. But I don't know how they... It's also sort of... It's the music. In all the music, they have the soprano on 1, alto on 2. It's categorized that way, too. So I guess you can say, I'm the baritone.

[2:20] Mo Brady: You are the baritone. You are the baritone chorus member.

[2:25] Mo Brady: How did you become involved with Hadestown?

[2:27] Ahmad Simmons: So I... Actually, they picked me up for Broadway. The first I heard about Hadestown, they were doing a two-week dance workshop staged reading type situation in June of last year because they were adding an ensemble to the show. They wanted to work on some of the numbers that they were going to implement the ensemble in. And David Newman, the choreographer, wanted a little bit of time to just sort of see what that might mean. So they hired, I think it was about, maybe about seven of us, seven or eight of us to come in for two weeks and literally just learn all of the new stuff they wanted to put in before London, workshop some of the dancing so they could see it on its feet and see what they need to change and what they want to work on.

So that was the first I ever heard of it. And then from there I was totally hooked. I was like, okay, well, I have to do this. And they were like, well, we can't bring anyone to London because of visas and yada yada. They could only bring the principals, but I was hounding it for sure. I was so... I was like, I told my managers like whenever you hear a peep about the audition process, like I have to be in. And so I went through the process in December, December.

[3:39] Mo Brady: Oh my gosh, that's really soon before the Broadway production started.

[3:43] Ahmad Simmons: Yeah. Cause we started in February.

[3:44] Mo Brady: Geez. What did you work on the entire show? Just the pieces that the chorus are in?

[3:49] Ahmad Simmons: No, it was just the pieces that David wanted to add some things in. So we worked on living it up a little bit. The chant material and the turn, getting used to the turntable idea and how he wanted to shape that.

[4:01] Mo Brady: Did you have a turntable in the room?

[4:03] Ahmad Simmons: We didn't. We didn't. It's just like putting movement in the circular path. I know. Yeah. But we worked on that. We worked on, there's a number called Come Home With Me where we go into this sort of very cinematic fantasy world using the tables and chairs. And that was one of the main things we worked on, sort of creating the, using the metaphor and the images of Anaïs's lyrics come to life through these inanimate objects. So it was really cool actually to do that. We did sing through the whole score eventually.

[4:34] Mo Brady: And were they teaching you vocal parts?

[4:36] Ahmad Simmons: Yeah.

[4:37] Mo Brady: Who from the present Broadway company was part of that workshop?

[4:40] Ahmad Simmons: Kim. Kim, Madame Marable. Kim, yeah. Kimberly.

[4:44] Mo Brady: Let's talk about Worker No. 4.

[4:46] Ahmad Simmons: Worker No. 4.

[4:47] Mo Brady: Does he have a name?

[4:48] Ahmad Simmons: Red Pan.

[4:49] Mo Brady: Do you have a name? Do you have a name for Worker No. 4?

[4:52] Ahmad Simmons: Nobody knows this actually. So I'm saying this for the first time and it's going to sound weird probably saying this, but I call him Dwayne.

[4:59] Mo Brady: Dwayne. Okay.

[5:00] Ahmad Simmons: Dwayne. Yeah. I don't know what, there was something when I put those pants on and I sort of decided to keep my facial hair, the little I can grow down here. He's a Dwayne. Like there's something sweet about him. Even in the hard world, this sort of oppressed world, there's some optimism in a Dwayne to me. One of my great uncle's name who's passed on name is Dwayne and he has a lot of those characteristics. So yeah.

[5:24] Mo Brady: Are you a worker at the beginning? I guess that's the big question I have. You guys are, you know, you were in the overalls or the coveralls with the cloggles once we get to Hadestown. Right. Right. Is that a different character than who you play at the beginning?

[5:37] Ahmad Simmons: I guess it depends on who you ask.

[5:41] Mo Brady: I'm asking Ahmad Simmons.

[5:44] Ahmad Simmons: For me, I am the same.

[5:44] Mo Brady: You're the same person.

[5:44] Ahmad Simmons: Who has been through the process of, and the promise of Way Down Hadestown, the number, sort of seeing the way that ends and seeing Hadestown descend with his queen and feeling those riches like come off of his jacket. I'm intrigued by that too. In the same way that, Eurydice might be. So to me, I am, I have also been lured down.

[6:06] Mo Brady: So you're talking about the sort of secular nature of the show, right? You say, you guys say time and again, this is a story that gets told over and over again. So in your mind, this is not the first telling of the story.

[6:15] Ahmad Simmons: Not in my interpretation, not in my head.

[6:20] Mo Brady: Well, that's how we talk about ensembles a lot, is that being in an ensemble is sometimes the most creative cast member because you have so little on the page that you have to create so many circumstances for yourself.

[6:31] Ahmad Simmons: Absolutely. And it's so important for this show, especially, so that you see five completely different people when you should. Even when we're underground and we're all in the machinery, we are still of individual mind. At some point, we show that when we start to break out of that, when Orpheus starts to say, is it true? Is it true? When we crack that shell, you have to see a glimpse of who we are. I have to already sort of plot that out.

[6:58] Mo Brady: Right. We see that there's a big portion of act two, where the five workers are overstage left, kind of observing the action. You guys are very much in light.

[7:07] Ahmad Simmons: Yeah. It's funny. That wasn't like that. I had sort of mentioned that to Rachel because we were working on that whole section and I was like, we're still in the rehearsal hall and I was like, you know, I don't want to overstep. And Rachel, what's so beautiful about her is that she welcomes all collaboration. And for me, coming from a strict dance world, you do the step. I was raised in college, you do the step. Luckily, I had a creative mind. I choreographed as well, but concert dance is different. And so I'm learning in this. And as I collaborate with people, like with Justin and Peck and Andy Blankenbuehler, those kinds of people welcome your creative energy in a space. And so I asked Rachel, I said, hey, there's something that I feel like adding this workers' chorus is so beautiful, but I feel like we don't quite make it to the end.

There's a gap between seeing us say, you know what, this isn't right. And then us either coming out of hell or not. I was like, there's something there. And it is that chunk that she was like, you know what, you're right. Like there's something to be explored there. So we do get to stay there. And even if we're sort of still and frozen in times, we're there and you see us a part of the action. You can see through our lenses what's happening as well. So it's funny you mentioned that part because that's one of the parts that I was like, hey, we need more there. I need more food there.

[8:26] Mo Brady: That's incredible. You don't often get that experience as an ensemble member.

[8:31] Ahmad Simmons: No. Are there other specific parts of the show, maybe specifically in the dance vocabulary that came out of something that you helped create?

[8:35] Ahmad Simmons: Oh yeah. I mean, David is the same way. He definitely had a shape and a shell because he did it in London. They did such a beautiful job at hiring people that could offer him different flavors of things. And so for, I call it, living it up would be our heaviest dance, I'd say more conventional like dance part. Like that's us.

[8:48] Mo Brady: You guys are in your chorus costumes, the sort of like red pants, flannel situations. And that's like where we've seen the photos of like big dancing, jumping over each other.

[8:54] Ahmad Simmons: Right. The exuberance was there because spring has come, Persephone has come. So that, I mean, all of that flavor, he gave us, obviously you start with a base step, but then we kind of amplify and I say, hey, there's a moment here where Tim is six, seven, and why don't I roll under his legs? And he jumped, things like that sort of emerged throughout the process because it's like, you want to also give the best of yourself in this moment. And working with someone for the first time, they may not.

[9:54] Ahmad Simmons: Okay. And why? Hermes is a Gemini. I mean, come on, I'm a Gemini. Absolutely. What I love about Hermes is that he has two beautiful sides to him. He has the side that is cunning and the side that is plotted. It still lives within the compassion that he has, specifically for Orpheus, but just in general, you know, for life, that sort of love and compassion and mentorship and urging someone to be their best self and realize their potential. That duality for Hermes definitely, I believe, lives in me and then lives through Dwayne Redfans. And, you know, so that's my connection for sure. If I had to pick a principal, it would be Hermes.

[10:31] Mo Brady: Who do you understudy?

[10:36] Ahmad Simmons: I understudy Hermes and Orpheus.

[10:42] Mo Brady: Yeah. How far are you into that process right now?

[10:45] Ahmad Simmons: I just had my first stumble through the Orpheus track. Yeah. But they had to teach me guitar. I didn't know guitar at all.

[10:52] Mo Brady: Oh, my goodness. So if you go on, are you doing all the guitar? Are you going to do some of it?

[10:59] Ahmad Simmons: The goal is to do all of it. Yeah. Except for, I mean, there's definitely things because Reeve is a god of a musician that isn't actually scripted that he plays, that he plays because he's brilliant. Those things that are more optional aren't first priority, unnecessarily, but all of the epics, I mean, yeah, it's part of it. And it's a part of the fear, but also the courage, you know, to, like, take that on. It's an exciting challenge.

[11:18] Ahmad Simmons: Because Hermes, I think, Hermes is a little easier to access for me because I, having done the, like, Ben Vereen thing, they sort of live in the same world. They have a similar energy, for sure.

[11:29] Ahmad Simmons: Yeah. Orpheus is a huge, huge, huge challenge in every way. It's like, I got a dance degree, you know, and like. One of the things that Hermes says right at the top of the show is that this is the hardest working chorus in God's almighty world. Do you agree with that? Is this one of the hardest ensembles that you've been in?

[11:43] Mo Brady: I mean, you've done some hard ensemble work, man.

[11:47] Ahmad Simmons: Yeah. But dancing, yes. What's different about this show to me is I'm required to, as an ensemble member, one of five, to be more responsible for more of the piece as a whole. We're like a carousel. The dancing was hard. Thank you, Justin. And it was fulfilling and wonderful. But we only come in in, like, big parts of the show. You know what I mean? It's like four parts. And then you have 20 minutes off stage. This, we are on stage really almost the whole time. So we're responsible for steering more of the piece than I'm used to. And that is so beautiful to me. And it feels like such a stepping stone to the next part of my life and career.

[12:29] Mo Brady: Do you prefer to do a show where you take big breaks, like Carousel? Or do you want to be on stage the whole time? Which one is sort of...

[12:34] Ahmad Simmons: I like more responsibility. I like being on the stage more and having to stay present and guide more of what's happening than to just appear when things are heightened. You know?

[12:45] Ahmad Simmons: You don't have to ever sort of reboot your energy because you're...

[12:50] Ahmad Simmons: Exactly. That's what's great. I don't have to feel like I have to reset.

[12:54] Mo Brady: Let's talk a little bit about your Broadway career thus far. You mentioned Carousel. You mentioned Cats.

[13:03] Ahmad Simmons: No, but like, yes, but you've been very busy.

[13:04] Mo Brady: Yeah.

[13:09] Ahmad Simmons: And when I saw that Cats list, I was like, oh, I don't know. I don't know who this person is. Because I'm sort of in this Broadway world. But then recently you just posted a photo of like your first headshot. It was like baby's first headshot.

[13:16] Ahmad Simmons: Oh my gosh, that McNamara video, yeah.

[13:17] Mo Brady: So people can look for that on Instagram. But you've been around for a while.

[13:22] Ahmad Simmons: Yeah.

[13:23] Mo Brady: Where were you?

[13:24] Ahmad Simmons: Like I said, I got a dance degree from Point Park University. I was a concert dancer. That's what I left. I left wanting to do concert dance and tour with the concert dance company. And so I spent 10 months immediately after college in a suburb of Detroit dancing with a company called Eisenhower Dance, a small modern company. I've since choreographed for and will choreograph again for. So I did that. And then I spent four and a half years actually in Chicago, dancing with a company called River North Dance Chicago and toured the world and lived my concert dance dreams. And then I taught a lot, which is actually a big part of my life. And then I was like, you know what? I've always wanted to go to New York. The summers in college, my theater education was at a place called Pittsburgh CLO. You know, the theater.

[14:10] Mo Brady: Yeah. So I got my equity card actually doing Alonzo and Cats at CLO and made my debut doing the same role here. But so every summer I did 12 shows with them. I would get my education there in the summers for theater and then go to college. And so I was like, you know, it'd be nice to go to New York. It'd be so nice to go with them. But I was a concert dancer. I was like, I got to fill this. Eventually 2015, I moved here to dance with Parsons Dance Company, thinking that at least it's like the next step. I'll be in New York, I'll be doing concert dance and we'll see what happens. And partway through my first year with them, the only season I did, I went to the open call of Cats with all those hundreds of people, just to get in the room with Andy Blankenbuehler and he hired me and then things sort of popped off from there.

[15:49] Mo Brady: Yeah. What was that audition?

[15:49] Mo Brady: Actually. Yeah. I want to ask about Ben Vereen.

[15:54] Ahmad Simmons: Oh my gosh. Yeah. How did that opportunity come? Did it come from the dance side? Did it come from the acting audition side?

[15:56] Ahmad Simmons: Oh my gosh. Scary. It was my first cattle call. And I thought to myself, whoa, like I'd come from dancing with 10 people to all of a sudden there being 200 men auditioning for what, eight jobs. And I was like, well, okay, this, this is what they were talking about. This is the part I missed in my concert dance life. It also gave me a huge boost of adrenaline. Cause like, I can, like, I can do this. And at the very least I'll have the experience of being seen by these people and getting to dance amongst all the people that I've watched their careers. Like I'm in the room now. So that was like four different calls for that. I mean, it was pretty rigorous, but I danced as hard as I could throughout all of those calls. And Andy ended up hiring me for that and the Dirty Dancing TV show in the same time. So he sort of kickstarted my career here.

[15:59] Ahmad Simmons: It came from the dance side through again, Andy.

[16:06] Mo Brady: You went to that big giant appointment.

[16:12] Ahmad Simmons: Yeah. It was heavy hitters, and I was feeling so grateful to be there, but yeah, we danced so hard. He has the ability to bring the best dancers in the room and just say, okay, here it is. Go. And you're just like, you got to pull up, you know, it's great. So it came through dancing. And then once I knew Ben Vereen might be character, but it wasn't initially going to be a thing until a few calls in and they were like, yeah, well, we should bring you in to read for him. It was scary because I'm up against, you know, people that I respect, but yeah, initially dance and then had to sing.

[16:43] Mo Brady: And sure. This was episode four.

[16:48] Ahmad Simmons: Yeah. Was that the only episode you did? I can't remember. So yeah, I only appear in episode four and then you hear me sing bye-bye life with Lynn in the last episode.

[16:56] Mo Brady: Well, that's cool.

[16:56] Ahmad Simmons: Yeah. And yeah, it was really cool.

[17:03] Mo Brady: So the last question I want to ask you is about being in an original company of a new Broadway musical. You know, you've, you were in the original cast of the cast revival and the carousel revival. What's been the most special about being a part of a new show?

[17:13] Ahmad Simmons: These creatives, these phenomenal women, the producer, Anais, Rachel make history to be invited to collaborate in that process. And to know that a gem, a new gem of the Broadway community and something that I think will make way for a new way of telling stories, like to be a part of the first company of that is, is huge to me. And well, something I'll never forget. I mean, this has been the most spectacular part of my career so far. New work. It's everybody's dream to be in new work, really. So I would say watching them be bold and take a risk and feel the reward of it now is the best. It's the best part of it.

[18:07] Mo Brady: Special thanks to Ahmad Simmons for sharing his stories with us this week. You can learn more about him and how to connect with him online by visiting our website, TheEnsemblist.com. The Ensemblist was produced today by me, Mo Brady. You can help others find out about The Ensemblist by leaving us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And let us know what you think of this new series. This is the first time we've ever done one where we're talking about just one show over multiple episodes. We'd love to hear what you think. Also follow us on Instagram to see the latest posts from our website where we share the stories of talented artists working in Broadway ensembles every day. Thanks for listening. Until next time.