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[0:00] Mo Brady: You're listening to The Ensemblist, the only podcast that shows you Broadway from the inside out.

[0:18] Mo Brady: Welcome, I'm Mo Brady.

[0:29] Mo Brady: Earlier this year, I had the opportunity to bring five of the most experienced and storied ensemble actors working on Broadway today before a live audience at BroadwayCon. We talked about the shows they've originated and the characters they've created, but also the disappointments they've felt when a show closed. While actors Tracee Beazer, Afra Hines, Kelvin Moon Loh, Barrett Martin, and Bret Shuford have each influenced the legacy of musical theatre, they've also been part of shows that just didn't gain traction with Broadway audiences. I figured with their experience, they must have some perspective on how to handle the disappointment of being in a Broadway flop. Here's what they had to say.

[1:19] Mo Brady: Can we go down the line, or feel free to just jump in, and the shortest run that you've ever done?

[1:36] Tracee Beazer: My shortest run was Holler If You Hear Me, which was 17 previews, I think, and 38 performances. There is another run that was kind of short, but technically it wasn't a Broadway run. I was in that failed production of Nerds that was...

[1:53] Afra Hines: You did it!

[1:54] Tracee Beazer: I did!

[1:55] Kelvin Moon Loh: You did it!

[1:56] Tracee Beazer: Where we were literally about to go into the theatre, we were on our last day of rehearsals, it's our third week, we were going into previews, and then our producers come in and say, it's not happening, we don't have the money, and that was that.

[2:09] Barrett Martin: Mine is Urban Cowboy. It was my first Broadway show. We made it through a musician's strike during tech, and didn't close then. We made it through some previews. We had opening night. The next day, our producer said, we're closing the show tomorrow night. But we did get a reprieve that night, what we thought was our last closing show. They announced during the bows, they literally said, we're not closing the show, and the place erupted.

[2:35] Tracee Beazer: I was there!

[2:36] Afra Hines: I was there!

[2:37] Barrett Martin: It was so exciting! Thank you so much! I think we got six more weeks after that. That was my shortest.

[2:45] Afra Hines: Barrett, I have to tell you, I was in college, I second-acted the show that night because I loved it. I saw it in previews. I was there that night. I was like, this is Broadway! It'll never die! So I was there, and I ran. So at the end of the show, I ran out the door, and I was like, oh my god, they're staying open, this is an iconic night. I ran to the corner, I bought a disposable camera, I took photos with everyone at the stage door. I'm going to break them out.

[3:12] Kelvin Moon Loh: My shortest show was with this guy, Sideshow, The Revival. Woo-wee! Broadway debuts, I mean, dreams up, dreams down. But we had a long road with it. We were out of town with it, so it felt like a whole year and change, but then once we got to Broadway, people loved it. The reviews were great, everybody, you know, people loved it. We just couldn't sell a ticket the way that we wanted to, and it was one of those things where you go, I hope that this gets to go on. I think that actually, now that particular version of the show is what's being licensed. So that gets to live on, and I'm glad that we had that time, but it was not long for this world.

[3:54] Barrett Martin: I'm just going to tag on. I think that that was my most disappointing, because even though Urban Cowboy was my first, knowing what he was feeling, because I knew that feeling, I also kind of saw some of the writing on the wall, you know, having been in enough shows at that point. So it was so disappointing to have to watch people go through that experience.

[4:16] Afra Hines: I will say, since my first show, Sideshow Revival felt like my first show again. It was an unbelievable experience. Also it's like the sense of denial the entire time, as you're like, by that point I'd done enough to see and studying Playbill and studying the numbers, and I go, this is not long for this world. But the denial game that you play with yourself, you're like, no, no, no, they're going to figure out a way. It's going to stay. It's going to stay. And it just never got any better.

[4:45] Tracee Beazer: But people letting you go through your feelings is one thing. Mine was Amazing Grace, which it was kind of the opposite, where it was like, why aren't we closing? It was like, we would look at the numbers and be like, any day now. But they had this producer who believed in it so much, which was so beautiful. And he was just investing this money. But we would go out and see like 200 people in the audience and be like, and thank God I was employed much longer than I thought I was going to be. But every week it was like, maybe, maybe. And then I think we ran eight months, which is surprising for that show that no one remembers. I'm so close to so many people from that show, because we got through that experience together. And the subject matter brought us really close. So I'm really grateful for Amazing Grace.

[5:44] Kelvin Moon Loh: My version of that would be Soul Doctor, which I think was open for like three months-ish. I was a swing and dance captain on that show. So we were at Circle in the Square, which is already a very intimate space. When the cast would enter through the house, like down the aisles, it got so bad that myself and Richard, the other swing, would go sit in the house and try to like give energy to the cast. Because it was just like, they were trying to like bring in all this energy and there was so little people in the house. I was also surprised that we stayed open that long. And I was like, everybody, make sure you're saving your paychecks, because there was definitely some denial. Especially if it's your first show, you just don't want to believe that it's going to go down that way.

[6:29] Afra Hines: I feel like it's funny being at different stages when it's happening. I feel like I've been in that position so many times where I'm almost like, can we just let it die? Like, stop putting money into this thing. Nobody's coming to see it.

[6:43] Tracee Beazer: Sometimes you just want it to end, because you feel like-

[6:46] Kelvin Moon Loh: It's inevitable.

[6:47] Tracee Beazer: It's inevitable. And you feel so badly for these producers who are so passionate about it. But it's just like, we can't keep doing this like every Tuesday waiting for that sign to be up on the board. But it's just-

[6:58] Afra Hines: And also in that situation, you've signed a contract. And we all knew that the ship was sinking. And so I was auditioning for things and I actually got an offer for another show. And I went to the producers and said, can you let me out of this contract so I can go? And they wouldn't let me. And it's things like that. You're like, you feel stuck. You want the show to do well. But you also, if it's dying, you want it to die so you can move on with your life.

[7:23] Barrett Martin: And sometimes the opposite happens. Sometimes your show is doing just fine.

[7:29] Afra Hines: Oh, maybe I'll just leave it there.

[7:38] Mo Brady: So we talked about short runs. Let's end with positivity. What's the longest run each of you has done?

[7:45] Tracee Beazer: I don't need dates. I was in this show for this long.

[7:49] Afra Hines: Frozen.

[7:50] Kelvin Moon Loh: I'm in it right now. We did an out-of-town tryout in Denver. So that was a three-month situation. And it's two years running right now.

[7:59] Barrett Martin: Yeah.

[8:01] Afra Hines: Little Mermaid with our out-of-town was two years. I think mine's maybe like a year and a half or two years, but I also took a leave of absence in the middle. Motown I was in for a year and in the Heights I was in for like a year and a half.

[8:17] Bret Shuford: Well, I want to say, with the nine shows, you get to nine shows when you've done a lot of flops. But I'm currently, this May will be my fourth year with Chicago. And I'm happy to not, to be fully employed in a long-running show. Oh, and the show's been running 23 years, in case you're wondering.

[8:42] Barrett Martin: My longest one that I did was The King and I in Lincoln Center. The show ran nearly two years. I did it for a year and a half. But I'm going to say, optimistically, that it still could be Beetlejuice.

[8:58] Afra Hines: It still could be.

[8:59] Mo Brady: Okay, so how do you stay motivated for a year and a half, two years, almost four years, going to the same place, saying the same things, in the same voice?

[9:11] Tracee Beazer: I'm going to be transparent. I am struggling. But, you know, I just recently took off a month just to reset and to think about what I want. Just to have time with friends and have dinners at eight o'clock. Sometimes you just have to do that. Sometimes motivation is making sure you are feeding your soul and your spirit. And sometimes that's just stepping away for a little bit and then you can come back refreshed and hopefully, you know, after creating that space, you are open for whatever is next. You can enjoy the people around you and the show again.

[9:42] Afra Hines: Yeah, I think it always ebbs and flows, like any job. But I always try to remember that there's somebody in that audience seeing their first Broadway show and I do it for them. Because I remember seeing my first Broadway show and what an impact that had on me. So I just always try to remember that, especially when I'm going through a day where I'm like, I don't want to do this right now. Do it for them.

[10:03] Kelvin Moon Loh: For me, I always love the first few months of a show. That's like the really exciting part. Because it's all new and then once the show gets into a longer run, for me, it's making sure that I'm doing creative things outside of work. Like at the end of the day, it's a job, especially at that point. I mean, I still love doing it and I get a lot of fulfillment from it, but it can't be my everything. You know, sometimes that just means taking some sort of class outside of work or doing another project. But like trying to, the things that you loved about it at the very beginning, trying to find that in other places, I think is really helpful.

[10:41] Barrett Martin: Yeah. I mean, every night's a different audience. That's always helpful. You know, we're not going and playing to the same audience. At Chicago, we recast our leads all the time. You know, we bring in a lot of fun people and different celebrities and that helps keep it fresh. So it never really feels like the same show. So I'm grateful for that. And then I have a family, I have a seven-year-old boy and my wife and I, and we, supporting them is also motivation to continue to show up to work every day.

[11:09] Tracee Beazer: I think that theater is such a gift that we get to do all the time. I remember when I was in high school, I was like, this is my favorite three months of the year, all the time. We start casting the musical, we do the musical, we rehearse the musical, and then it's up and down. That doesn't change on Broadway. The lifespan of musicals, it's so rare that something runs 23 years, runs 20 years. More often, 99% of the time, shows run a couple months, maybe a year if you're lucky, sometimes a couple weeks. And so you get that moment where you go, okay, this is why I do theater. Because when you're in the theater, it is about community. It is about going to dressing room to dressing room and terrorizing your castmates. It is about being able to connect with a community of people every single day.

[12:03] Afra Hines: The way you can keep it fresh is just remember that that time will expire. You will move on to something else, whether it's your choice or you're forced to, it doesn't really matter. That time will go away. You have to make a conscious effort to cherish those moments.

[12:15] Barrett Martin: Cherish those moments.

[12:16] Tracee Beazer: Yes, at some point, you have to go say, hey, I've gotten the experience I wanted from this, and I want to love it, and I think maybe it's time for me to move on. And you'll know. You'll get better at it. At some point, you're like, am I ready to move on from the paycheck? Maybe not. But am I ready to move on from the experience? Maybe. But it's the idea that we have a finite amount of time on the earth. We have a finite amount of time with every show that we do. And so it really is up to your personal willpower and your own heart to open up to that experience to share with the people that you get to share the stage with every night. And yes, the people that are seeing it brand new for the first time.

[13:00] Mo Brady: Special thanks to Tracee Beazer, Afra Hines, Kelvin Moon Loh, Barrett Martin, and Bret Shuford for sharing their stories with us this week. The Ensemblist was produced today by me, Mo Brady. The Ensemblist is proud to be a part of Broadway Podcast Network. If you can't get enough of theater conversations directed into your earbuds from us, there are more than 40 other great theater podcasts to listen to. Check us all out at bpn.fm. Also we've joined the world of Patreon, where you can support the work we do here at The Ensemblist for as little as $5 a month. Learn how at patreon.com slash The Ensemblist. And if you don't have the cash to donate $5 a month, you can still help us out by leaving us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. One more thing, make sure you're following us on Instagram to see the latest posts from our website where we share the stories of talented artists working in theater ensembles. Thanks for listening, guys. Until next time.