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[0:00] Mo Breda: You're listening to The Ensemblist, the only podcast that shows you Broadway from the inside out. Welcome, I'm Mo Breda.

[0:25] Mo Breda: Just this afternoon, the American Theatre Wing announced their 2020 Tony Award nominations. While it's been a challenging year for all, we here at The Ensemblist are excited to celebrate our community in any way we can at this point. So we sat down with our friend Mary Dina from the very good, very great Page to Stage podcast to talk about our co-signs, surprises, and snubs. Here's our conversation.

[1:00] Mo Breda: Hi Mary.

[1:01] Mary Dina: Hi Mo.

[1:03] Mary Dina: It is 12:23 on Thursday, October 15, and here we are to talk about the 2020 Tony Award nominees. How are you feeling?

[1:14] Mary Dina: I can't believe we're here. Like I, I'm nervous. I was nervous. I honestly was a little nervous this morning, too, and I don't know why. I just was like, I was like, getting excited about something, maybe like...

[1:27] Mo Breda: For sure, same. And even like, in that two minute countdown clock on YouTube, I was like, oh my god, what's gonna happen? What's it gonna look like? Because we've spent the last seven months or so, you know, all tuned into this virtual world, you know, to have to kind of be watching the Tony Awards after all this time on a virtual platform, which is kind of like, very surreal for me.

[1:50] Mary Dina: Yeah, it didn't quite feel real in the same way when you're watching James Monroe Heiglehart in this like, produced video package. Every name was pronounced correctly. We didn't have sort of the sort of like, live flubs that we're used to.

[2:07] Mo Breda: Right. I actually really wanted to talk about that for a second, if that's cool, because I was anticipating it to be partially live, if you also had that, or if I was alone in that assumption, but I kind of was expecting like a portion of it to be live, and it seemed like it was completely taped.

[2:23] Mary Dina: I, as a video producer, I am not surprised at all that it was pre-taped, just because there can be so many things that go wrong with a live taping, that if you have all the information, it makes sense for it to go public in a previously recorded. That was, I wasn't surprised.

[2:42] Mo Breda: No, no, no, it's fine. I mean, don't apologize. I just because because everything has been in the conversation of just like, it being live and keeping the live theater and obviously like the nominations in the past haven't worked in this way either. So I guess I was kind of shocked. But obviously, it was hysterical. James killed it, the opening segment. Well, he had me cracking up with the when he was spinning his Tony.

[3:05] Mary Dina: Oh my gosh. What were what are your first reactions about the nominations like high level?

[3:12] Mary Dina: Short, there weren't as many shows eligible this year. So I was curious to see like, what that breakdown was going to look like. And I was I don't know if you were following around with the chat. I was trying not to be so distracted with that live chat on YouTube, but I couldn't help it. And just watching people get so excited over like Jagged Little Pill with their several noms. The Moulin Rouge! the musical had several nominations as well. People were freaking out about Aaron, no surprise.

[3:39] Mary Dina: But the nominations by production for musical were Jagged Little Pill in the lead with 15, Moulin Rouge! with 14, Tina, the Tina Turner musical with 12. And those are the musicals that were nominated this season. I have to say, I was surprised to see nothing for The Lightning Thief. Like that's something I noticed in the chat as well. I didn't necessarily think it was going to be nominated many times. But the fact that all three of the other musicals were nominated for every award, and it was nominated for none, I just thought was intentional.

[4:12] Mo Breda: I don't know what I don't know. It was a surprise to me because there were things about that show that were worthy of a nomination, I think.

[4:20] Mary Dina: I think especially this year when there were only so many that were not not even so many, there were so few that were eligible in these categories, that The Lightning Thief didn't get a single nomination. And obviously people were and are going to be very upset and vocal about it. I guess intentional. I guess that's the word. I wasn't thinking intentional when we were going through it. But I guess you're right. I mean, because what else would be the reason, you know?

[4:45] Mary Dina: There were a few categories where I was just surprised. For example, the nominations for Best Score. There were five plays and no musicals nominated for Best Score, which is interesting, right?

[4:57] Mo Breda: Yes, I actually even I meant to look it up before we hopped on this call just because I was I wanted to like double check as to like, has that happened before? It was a TheatreWorks tour that then was brought to Broadway. But there were some things about it, the sound design by Ryan Remery, the lighting design by David Lander that could have been nominated. I think the biggest surprise, though, is that there is a best leading actor in a musical category. And yet only one of the two people who were eligible were nominated.

[5:32] Mary Dina: So we got a nomination for Aaron Tveit for Will Embers the Musical, but no nomination for Chris McCarroll for The Lightning Thief, which is like, I don't know if Chris McCarroll's performance was Tony nomination worthy, but like, it's interesting that basically, there were four spots open and they were like, nah to any of them.

[5:54] Mo Breda: Oh my god, yes.

[5:56] Mary Dina: Another surprise for me about A Lightning Thief Miss is I really enjoyed the performance by Ryan Knowles, who played Chiron, the professor and a few many other characters in the show. I thought he was really fantastic. And that certainly would have been a place where a nomination could have been placed. And to see that instead we had nominations for Derek Lennon, Sean Alan Krill, who I thought were fine, but weren't necessarily incredible.

[6:27] Mary Dina: I didn't necessarily think those were Tony nominee performances in a show that was really grounded by so many strong female performances.

[6:37] Mo Breda: I'm trying to remember back to when I saw the show and I remember being like very impressed and blown away by like, a lot of the design features, specifically lighting and so even going kind of to support what you were just saying of, I mean, there were I'm looking at the list now and there are three shows nominated for Best Lighting for a musical.

[6:56] Mary Dina: So yeah, I just...

[6:57] Mo Breda: It's great to see these other three musicals nominated for in so many categories. I guess I'm also surprised in a high level that we have separate categories for Best Sound Design of a Play and Best Sound Design of a Musical. This totally felt like a year where you could have combined those two. And certainly there's precedent in Tony Award history to combine design categories. So the fact that they chose not to, I think was interesting. I mean, it speaks well to the plays.

[7:26] Mary Dina: I know the plays were very well represented across several categories, specifically all of the design ones I'm looking at right now. I mean...

[7:35] Mo Breda: I think that's really where the competition was for the design categories, right? There were more than four options. And so you did see some differences in which shows were nominated for each of those design categories versus the musicals where it was just the same thing over and over.

[7:53] Mary Dina: Yeah, I'm actually really excited because I mean, I definitely have seen more of the... I saw more of the plays in this season than I had for the musicals. And I'm really excited to see how this plays out just because that feels the closest... The play representation for the Tonys this year feels the closest to like a normal season for me. Maybe it's because there are just more options. There's more eligible shows this year. There were more shows open before everything happened.

[8:24] Mary Dina: I just, it just kind of felt like the plays feel like more comfort to me.

[8:30] Mary Dina: Right. There were 12 plays nominated for Tonys this year, Slave Play having the most nominations with 12, followed by The Inheritance at 11. But then there were 10 other plays that got nominations versus the only three that got nominated for musicals. I had no reason to believe this, but I wondered if they would combine best performing actor and best performing actress in a leading role in a musical. There's three nominees and then one nominee, you could have done a four actor category of both genders. I mean, especially in a time where we're starting to talk about, you know, the gender binary, that could have been a way to sort of an interesting contemporary conversation, and not have this strange category where Aaron Tveit will be a Tony Award winner, by default, not because he doesn't deserve a Tony Award, but because he's the only one nominated.

Yeah, it felt like this year, with this decision to move forward with the Tony Awards, with this past season, that there were so many opportunities to make updates to our previous, you know, quote unquote, rules and policies for these awards. Even just like looking at new types of categories. I mean, I've had conversations with people pre today of like, you know, what would they look at, you know, streamed shows in the future? Will they have, you know, looking at things that are virtual and digital and looking at those, but then also, like what you said, combining the awards. I'm wondering if they, if they haven't, if they did not make that decision for this year, for this season, if they would consider that in the future, because this seems like it would be the opportune time to make those changes.

Well, I think that often, the Tony Awards are sort of behind the social conversation that is happening in the theatre community. And so to see them go back to the traditions, and we're going to do the thing that is sort of a mainstay a tradition in our industry. Yeah. And they could have also I mean, to play devil's advocate to my own comment could be that they just want, you know, there's so much that has changed in our industry in the last, you know, year, seven months, whatever it's been, and maybe they're trying to, you know, keep some sort of tradition.

[10:58] Mary Dina: What was like the number? What was the number one thing that like, you were excited to see? I gotta say that I jumped up and down for Robin Hurter for Moulin Rouge!, the musical being nominated by being nominated for Best Performance by an actress in a featured role in the musical. I had a very, I had a conversation with Robin on March 12, where I said, I think you could be nominated for a Tony Award this season. And she was like, Nah, I don't believe it. I don't think it's gonna happen. And this is like, not only pre shutdown, but this is like, when we thought the shutdown would be two weeks or four weeks, right? So there were other musicals that were coming up six with six women, who could have put perhaps this nomination is happening, you know, in light of the sort of less, there's, there's fewer actors to nominate.

But I really love that mother, this talented woman who has grown up through the ensemble, and is really sort of a community favorite is being recognized in this way, because I think her performance is fantastic. Backstage romance at the top of Act Two of Moulin Rouge! stops the show. And it is great to see someone who is dancer, as well as a singer and an actor be nominated in this category. Because that's not something we often do. Something that happened in the Tony Awards past, you know, you think about Scott Wise winning a Tony Award for dancing and Jerome Robbins Broadway. But now, when you look at these featured categories, it's more like Diana Rigg in My Fair Lady. The fact that there are so many young women who are nominated in this category, I think is really exciting.

[12:43] Mary Dina: Yeah, it's killer. It's I'm looking at the list and it just like my I'm just smiling so hard. And the other nominee that I'm just super excited about is Daniel J. Watts. I didn't think he wasn't going to be nominated for Tina, the Tina Turner musical, but I thought he was so spectacular as Ike Turner. And he's another actor that's grown up through the ensemble and to watch him take on this role that doesn't really have anything to do with dance, which is how he made his Broadway debut. You know, he's a Broadway dancer in the same theater at the Lunt-Fontanne in The Little Mermaid. So to watch this trajectory of this performer go from like Broadway dancer to arguably leading man and Tony nominee for a Broadway show I thought was so fantastic.

So those are the two nominations that I am just really stoked about. I was I mean, expecting this, of course, but Adrianne Warren getting nominated for Best Performance by an Actress in a Leading Role in a Musical for Tina, the Tina Turner musical like that. I was anticipating but like it just made my heart like flutter when they announced her.

[13:54] Mary Dina: Now I want to ask you about the plays because like you said, you saw more plays than musicals this season. What was exciting to you about the nominees for plays? I mean, I think I mean, first and foremost, I think it was just how many eligible shows there were this year was very exciting to me. I am kicking myself to this day that I did not get to see Slave Play. I am kicking myself and just looking at all of the people and people who were nominated for various categories, whether it was design, whether it was for performances, like it's that's one thing that I am kicking myself for. But I'm very excited to see because the response of that show and I can't even speak to the plot because I know that there's so much like so many spoilers and such that I have to see it or read it to know but that was exciting to see.

One of the last shows, one of the last plays I should say that I saw before the shutdown was The Inheritance and obviously them being robbed of their final performance. I can't even imagine or them not even realizing truly that it was their final performance, I should say. It has a lot of emotions brought up but to see Andrew Burnap nominated for best performance by an actor in a leading role in a play, that was exciting. I thought his performance was stellar. He was captivating in both parts and I like just jaw to the floor for both parts. Honestly, Brian and I were kind of just looking at each other like dumbfounded by the storytelling but obviously by his character arc and the journey that he took for both all, what is that, seven hours. Oh, John Benjamin Hickey, yeah, he also was amazing.

[15:34] Mary Dina: Any final thoughts? Any sort of grand takeaways? I was kind of hoping that they were going to announce the actual date of the Tony Awards at the end of this.

[15:45] Host: Yeah, me too.

[15:47] Mary Dina: I waited to the very end to see if it was going to pop up and then when they showed their partners and sponsors, I was kind of like, oh, okay, this would have been an opportune time to release that information. I'm so curious as to what they're going to do for if and how they're going to handle performances and or some sort of content in between the awards or if it's just going to be just the awards just being kind of announced.

[16:14] Host: Special thanks to Mary Dina for joining us today. You can listen to the Page to Stage podcast as well as the Ensemblist on the Broadway Podcast Network.

[16:31] Host: Please follow the Ensemblist wherever you listen to podcasts, whether that be on BPN, on Spotify, or Apple Podcasts. You can also follow us on Instagram. Thanks for listening. Until next time.