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[0:10] Rob Russo: Welcome to DANCIN' Man, a Fabulous Invalid podcast featuring exclusive behind-the-scenes interviews with the cast and creative team of Bob Fosse's DANCIN' on Broadway.

[0:18] Jamie DuMont: I'm Jamie DuMont, and we're your hosts.

[0:21] Rob Russo: We're also excited to be co-producers of DANCIN' on Broadway and thrilled to be back in the Rosevale Cocktail Room at Civilian for another conversation with a member of the cast.

[0:30] Jamie DuMont: Yes. Joining us this week is cast member Karli Dinardo.

[0:33] Rob Russo: Coming to Broadway from the land down under.

[0:35] Jamie DuMont: Karli was born and raised in Australia.

[0:38] Rob Russo: She made her Broadway debut in the original company of Moulin Rouge! The Musical and was in national tours of Hamilton and Flashdance.

[0:44] Jamie DuMont: I cannot wait to talk to Karli.

[0:45] Rob Russo: Let's do it.

[0:57] Jamie DuMont: Karli, welcome to the show.

[0:58] Karli Dinardo: Thank you for joining us on this balmy summer day in spring.

[1:03] Jamie DuMont: Oh, dreams.

[1:04] Karli Dinardo: My favorite type of weather.

[1:05] Rob Russo: Yeah, well, you come from a warmer climate than the one you currently live in.

[1:10] Karli Dinardo: This is correct.

[1:11] Rob Russo: Yes. Um, we'll get there in a second. Dancing is in full swing.

[1:14] Jamie DuMont: Performances at the Music Box began what, now six weeks ago, seven weeks ago?

[1:19] Karli Dinardo: You opened two weeks ago.

[1:21] Rob Russo: Oh my gosh.

[1:22] Karli Dinardo: Something like that.

[1:23] Jamie DuMont: I guess.

[1:24] Karli Dinardo: Yeah. I haven't put that two and two together, but yeah, you're right.

[1:28] Rob Russo: Math was never my strong suit, but I think it's something like that. So I guess that begs the question, how are you feeling today?

[1:33] Karli Dinardo: I am cautiously optimistic about the week approaching. Um, I feel like always after a day off, it's that in between of have I rested enough? Am I ready for the week? Trying to pace myself as we start the week, because otherwise, you know, you have one show on Tuesday, two shows on Wednesday, and it's just trying to find that pace so that you can get through the whole week.

[1:56] Rob Russo: And then the weekend, which is also a bit killer too, right?

[1:59] Karli Dinardo: Correct.

[2:00] Karli Dinardo: Yeah, exactly. So it's just finding that groove, and then also, you know, I was a little bit more active on my day off yesterday than I have been in the past. So just being, you know, conscious of okay, well, did I do enough recovery as well as other things?

[2:13] Jamie DuMont: So well, I think this is something that many people probably don't know, is that tech is grueling, right? Your preview, your preview pro you go through tech, then you do previews, which also sometimes you're rehearsing during the day, or your days and previews are long.

[2:27] Karli Dinardo: Yeah.

[2:28] Karli Dinardo: Opening can be stressful, as wonderful as it is, there's a lot of pressure. And then it just kind of comes to a grinding halt and you go into the rhythm of the show, which is where you're at now.

[2:37] Jamie DuMont: Totally.

[2:38] Karli Dinardo: And I feel like we had opening and we opened on a Sunday, which I've never done before, which is kind of really cool to be able to have a day off after that entire experience. But then we did Good Morning America the week after, which was like a really early morning. So it's just again, like how do you find the routine, even if little things change here and there, and then just kind of go accordingly and keep figuring it out.

[3:02] Karli Dinardo: So no, it's been um it's been great and so fun and so crazy at the same time. But I think it's now I think this week moving forward is very much gonna be this is our routine. How do we feel? This is I need PT on this day and this day type thing.

[3:19] Jamie DuMont: What do you like to do on your day off?

[3:21] Karli Dinardo: If money was abundant and limitless, I would spend it at a spa every Monday.

[3:28] Karli Dinardo: 100% outside, inside, massage, acupuncture in any possible way. That would be the dream. Sometimes that's possible, sometimes it's not. But of course, that would be best case scenario.

[3:41] Jamie DuMont: Okay. Put that out into the world, you know, maybe.

[3:43] Karli Dinardo: Manifesting that.

[3:43] Rob Russo: We'll come back to you.

[3:44] Karli Dinardo: Right, right?

[3:44] Karli Dinardo: Exactly. Well, we read that you started dancing when you were three years old, which is a pretty common theme among cast members, right? Everybody started dancing as soon as they could walk, it seems like for the most part.

[3:55] Karli Dinardo: Yeah.

[3:56] Karli Dinardo: In your home country of Australia.

[3:57] Jamie DuMont: Yeah. What was your early training like? Like what got you into dance class?

[4:02] Karli Dinardo: So funnily enough, I wish I had this problem now. I never used to sleep as a kid, and I never needed sleep. It was something my parents could not understand and drove them absolutely crazy, which I feel terrible about now as an adult. Thinking about having a child one day, being like, oh my god, I would kill them. But I never slept. And so my parents put me into some activities all in one day just to try to get me tired enough that I would sleep. And dancing was one of them, swimming and gymnastics. Um, and so it started off as every Saturday, I would take a few classes and do all the things, and they would hope that I would get so tired that I would just sleep. I think it worked for like a hot second, and then it backfired because I got more and more energy and became more and more obsessed, and then kind of signed myself up for more and more classes, and eventually I had to make a decision of which one I wanted to pursue a little bit more seriously, because you literally can't do it all.

And I chose dancing, of course, and then it became from one day a week to four days a week to solos, competitions, all the things. So there was very much driven by me. Um, even at four, five, six years old. I was very determined, and I just loved it.

[5:15] Karli Dinardo: So in Australia specifically, um, there's a heavy focus on kind of training in everything as much as possible, just because our industry is different and it's a little bit smaller, and there's the mentality of if you want to be employable, you kind of have to be able to do everything, which has been really amazing for me um in my life. So definitely expanded to hip hop and then tap and then contemporary and then you know, acrobatics and all the things that you just keep kind of adding on as you go.

[5:41] Jamie DuMont: So, what brought you to New York then?

[5:43] Karli Dinardo: I graduated high school and moved to New York to go to college pretty much like a month and a half afterwards. So I moved to um I found out I got in, I think it was like the first week of January, and by the first week of February, I was here starting classes.

[6:00] Rob Russo: Wow.

[6:01] Karli Dinardo: Um so yeah, quick turnaround. Had you been here before?

[6:04] Karli Dinardo: I had won a dance scholarship at a competition the year before. The prize was to a two-week scholarship in LA and one week in New York that was designed by this company to take a bunch of classes and kind of immerse yourself in the culture and the system here, which was phenomenal. And I landed in New York and was like, oh, this is it. This is it, I'm here. And then I checked out the college, both the LA campus and the New York campus while I was um over here, and then by chance they happened to be auditioning in Australia that well, summer for us, winter for here.

[6:37] Rob Russo: Right.

[6:37] Karli Dinardo: And I auditioned and then that was it. And I started a uh the conservatory course, and the rest is history.

[6:46] Jamie DuMont: Yeah. Been here since.

[6:47] Karli Dinardo: Yeah. Is there like sort of um idea in Australia that like performing in America or making it on Broadway is like is that like a goal? Is that something that people like look towards, or you have your own industry there and it's sort of like, you know, we don't need Broadway, like you know, we have our own amazing, you know, cultural scene?

[7:07] Karli Dinardo: I think it's a combination of lots of things. I think um because we're so far away, there is an element of um a lot of people look elsewhere to do things because what we have, though wonderful, is that um and so a lot of people do cruise ships or go to like Universal or Disney, or there's so many um amazing experiences that you can do outside of Australia as well. Specifically with America, it's complicated because visas are really complicated and um expensive, and the government don't make it easy deliberately because there's enough Americans that don't need more people. So I would say that the dream of America and Broadway is definitely present, especially if you love musical theater. It's like we mostly get shows from New York and London.

So there is that element of like the big apple, the place where everything happens, which was definitely something that I always loved, the idea of, but the logistics of it are really hard. So I think that there's a there's always that struggle.

[8:09] Rob Russo: Totally.

[8:10] Karli Dinardo: Yeah, I think a lot of American actors think of like performing in London as like, oh, that's like posh. That's the dream. You know, like that's like the other, you know, because it's the exotic thing, right? It's the other place.

[8:21] Jamie DuMont: Well, I think it's also you know, that that classic phrase of like if you can make it here, you can make it anywhere in New York. Like that very much rings true, I think, all over the world, yeah, which is why there's so many people who come here to train, to study, to watch shows from everywhere in the world, because it really is the melting pot of everything.

[8:37] Karli Dinardo: Welcome to the big city.

[8:39] Rob Russo: Literally.

[8:39] Karli Dinardo: I would make the argument that we could probably get rid of about half of the Americans in this country and start fresh.

[8:46] Rob Russo: However, I believe that might be a different podcast.

[8:49] Karli Dinardo: I was about to say, I think that's a different topic.

[8:51] Rob Russo: That I currently don't post, but well, may do some too big, you know.

[8:56] Jamie DuMont: Um that said, cutting a few years ahead now, you made your Broadway debut in Moulin Rouge, correct?

[9:02] Karli Dinardo: That is correct.

[9:03] Jamie DuMont: How did that come about?

[9:05] Karli Dinardo: So I had been on the road. Um, I got my green card at a very interesting time in this country, the election of 2016. I submitted right before that happened, and thankfully had listened to my lawyers and paid extra to have it expedited, which meant that I was guaranteed an answer at a certain time frame. Thankfully, it was approved. I was successful in that, which was a huge feat that you know you never expect. Um, and then everything in the country kind of changed. But I went on tour for two years with Hamilton right after that, which was amazing. And then got back to the city and auditioned for Moulin Rouge that January. Quite literally, my last show was like December 30th, I think. Got back to the city.

I was like, great, this audition's coming up, ready for it. Um, went from my final callback to Australia, literally to the airport with my suitcase. Did a show in Australia for a couple months. As soon as I landed, I found out that I was gonna be in the show, and then it was a I couldn't have written it actually to unfold the way that it did, but I finished that show and then came back and started rehearsals.

[10:14] Jamie DuMont: So it was pretty wild, but phenomenal.

[10:17] Rob Russo: And you didn't just dance in the show, you were also the dance captain, correct?

[10:21] Karli Dinardo: Yes.

[10:21] Jamie DuMont: And I read that on the tour you worked as the assistant choreographer.

[10:26] Karli Dinardo: Yes.

[10:27] Karli Dinardo: So I got to I got to be a part of um setting the company a few times uh over the pandemic in Australia as well as the tour.

[10:34] Jamie DuMont: So what's the difference between being the dance captain and being the assistant choreographer?

[10:39] Karli Dinardo: So oh, that's a great question. With Dance Captain, that's usually someone who is involved with the production on a day-to-day basis. I also was a swing. So I was a dance captain swing and I understudied.

[10:50] Rob Russo: Oh my god.

[10:53] Karli Dinardo: Yes.

[10:54] Karli Dinardo: You know every interval on the titles.

[10:57] Rob Russo: That's insane.

[10:58] Karli Dinardo: Yes, it is 100% insane and like wonderful. I don't think, yeah. I was very grateful because I just kind of stretched my muscles that way on tour with Hamilton because I also was co-dance captain swing and understudy. So I was familiar with the responsibility that it required of especially a show at that magnitude with such insane and intense dancing.

[11:30] Karli Dinardo: Newgies, that's a new word. Um I was one of the newbies because they'd already done the workshop and the out of town, and so it was very much just trying to jump in and learn as much as possible as quick as possible. Um and so the dance captain element really starts to kick in once you open, more specifically when the creative team leave. And my job was to maintain um Sonia's vision and her work in the show and make sure that everything was safe and all the partnering was going well, or doing lift calls and teaching um the swings or understudies, anything that you may need to do in the show. Um, weekly rehearsals with stage management, maintaining the integrity of the show uh as an umbrella, as well as having to perform in the show and jump in and do things um as well.

Noting the show as many times a week as necessary, just making sure everything's functioning. If we were thinking of a machine, there are no clogs and things like that. Whereas an assistant choreographer, when I was with the tour or when we were doing the show in Australia, it's uh more at the front of the room, insofar as teaching the vocabulary, and um, in many ways, there are a lot of similarities to the dance captain. It's just that I wasn't also in the show. It was very much here is the vocabulary, this is what the show is, you're gonna be here, you go to this place for this step, you're gonna be with this person, and kind of building up the show and creating it with that group of people, honoring obviously what Sonia's a doing in the room on the new bodies as well as what we had created for Broadway.

So it's a little bit more of a I would say front of house versus in the middle. The dance captain is very much the middle person between management and creatives and the cast, and the assistant choreographer is much more on the creative team side with the choreographer specifically.

[13:13] Jamie DuMont: That was such a great explanation. You could teach a class on this, Karli.

[13:17] Karli Dinardo: Listen, I've definitely thought about it. I've thought about it, but dance captaining and swinging, and it's it's a really cool world, and it's um very hard to do, and we don't really talk about it very often. So that's why we wanted to ask, because I think we're fascinated by that and the also the fact that I think it's a specific person that gets these jobs time and time again. Well, I guess fast forward a little bit. There was a little pandemic, which was you know, what what was your pandemic experience? Um I guess you were in you were in Australia working on Moulin Rouge.

[13:50] Karli Dinardo: I went back and forth a little bit. Honestly, it was truly wild. Um, traveling during that time was something I don't think I'll ever forget in my life.

[14:00] Jamie DuMont: Yeah.

[14:01] Karli Dinardo: The first time I went back, the images of JFK in my mind are very similar to those of the end of the world movies that you've seen and like pretended that never could happen. Um, it very much was um terrifying. And that's a long flight to be on.

[14:17] Jamie DuMont: It is in those circumstances.

[14:19] Karli Dinardo: It is a very long flight. And it was the I ended up being on the last flight out of America into Australia.

[14:24] Jamie DuMont: Wow.

[14:24] Karli Dinardo: At that time when everything truly truly shut down. And I was first flight into the mandatory hotel quarantine in Australia. It was just a really unique time. I spend more time in like solitary confinement than I ever wished to in my life again. Because every time I flew back to Australia, I'd have to do the two-week quarantine. I went back and forth, I think three times because obviously we could know nothing could be planned far enough in advance with the uncertainty that was happening. The first time I went back to be with my family, um, because I thought at that time we'd be, you know, have a few weeks off and be back at work. So I was like, oh, well, I might as well make use of this time.

Fast forward to being stuck there for three months, which honestly was like the most wonderful quality family time I could have dreamed of. Came back here for a few months, and then that's when they were like, oh, Moulin Rouge, Australia. So I went back, kind of extended it so I could be there for the holidays. We auditioned the whole country for that, which was incredible. Did a little um boot camp of such with the creatives, um the Aussie Creative team, um, which was also so cool to be dancing and working during that time. So it was a very there was lots of dualities present at the same time. Very grateful to have a job and to be able to focus on something that I loved as well as dealing with everything that we were all dealing with.

[15:40] Jamie DuMont: Did you come back to Moulin Rouge on Broadway when it reopened?

[15:43] Karli Dinardo: Yes. So auditions came back here for a few months, and then ended up going back there to help set the show.

[15:49] Jamie DuMont: Right.

[15:50] Karli Dinardo: Um, and then there was a lockdown in Sydney, which is where we were rehearsing, and I ended up kind of having that time cut short, and then came right back here to start remounting Broadway.

[16:01] Jamie DuMont: Yeah, so you kind of never stopped moving during the pandemic.

[16:03] Karli Dinardo: As I say that now, it kind of sounds that way. There definitely was lots of downtime in the middle of that. Like lots of, it did not feel well, also time moved differently.

[16:13] Jamie DuMont: Correct.

[16:13] Karli Dinardo: Right. I mean, the the month of March 2020 is the longest month in history.

[16:17] Jamie DuMont: Yes.

[16:18] Karli Dinardo: It it was like a year.

[16:19] Jamie DuMont: I yeah.

[16:20] Karli Dinardo: Yeah.

[16:21] Jamie DuMont: Right. We all sort of experienced that together, right?

[16:23] Karli Dinardo: Yeah.

[16:24] Jamie DuMont: Yeah. I always joke, time is a flat circle. And that was certainly true during during the pandemic.

[16:28] Karli Dinardo: Definitely. Well, on the the back side, you know, we get you get to be back on Broadway, which is exciting. And then, of course, this amazing gift called dancing.

[16:36] Jamie DuMont: Yeah. So, how how did you get cast in the show? What was your audition process like?

[16:40] Karli Dinardo: I wish everyone could see the smile on your face when Rob mentioned the gift called dancing.

[16:45] Jamie DuMont: Yeah.

[16:47] Karli Dinardo: They can't, but they can't. I'm sure they semi-hear it through my voice. Um, it's quite a lovely smile. The journey of this show has been a parallel in my life in a very unique way. And honestly, shout out to my agent, Sophia. She was the reason that I went to the audition in the first place because we had just remounted Broadway. It was full on and I had no time. I was between rehearsals and the show and just trying to get everything up and running again, dealing with the new circumstances that we were working within. I didn't have time to do anything, let alone go to an audition. And I kind of got the email and said to her, Look, thank you, but like, no, I was going through some stuff in my life as well.

And so I was just like, I I just I can't find space for this this week specifically. She was like, That's great. I'm confirming you. And I was like, uh, okay. She's we don't usually like, that's not usually our correspondence. And she was like, I really think you need to go. And I was like, okay, fine, I'll I'll listen to you, let's go. And I remember going in and just being at a place where I was so inspired by what we were doing, and I'd never really had the opportunity to sink my teeth into Fosse's work before. Um, for various reasons, I think, and also my own, you know, projections onto it. Like, I'm not a traditional looking Fosse dancer that has worked in the past. So it's not something I ever truly believed that I would be doing in my career.

I love his work and I love his style. And I think that there is so many incredible people in in our industry that I admire who have come from his work, but it's just not something I connected with my journey. And so going into the audition and having Wayne and Corinne and Lauren and like everybody there and just taking in, we were dancing to like this new song that had nothing to do with the show, really. And I it was just such a surprise. I was completely taken aback by it. And then I think at the same time, because I had so much going on, there was also an element of I couldn't stress about it. I didn't have space to get nervous about it. I was just there and trying to be as present as I could.

And I think that was a really beautiful combination. Now in hindsight, looking back, it it worked out really well because I just was me as much as I could be at that moment. Um, which honestly, sometimes I'm like, could I just copy paste that for every other audition? But um, yeah, I was a really unique experience, and then the callbacks, and we were in a bunch of times to sing and then to read and dance again. And somehow I'm very grateful for everybody at Rouge as well, within management, like Nancy and Pissarro's stage management associates and stuff, because they made it work. And there were days where I was like, uh, I'll can I'll be at rehearsal by this time, but I have a callback. And they just were like, Yep, fine, totally all good, we'll make it work. We have other people here. So it would not have been possible if everybody hadn't have kind of made it happen. So it took a village.

[19:42] Jamie DuMont: It really did, especially because you know, it takes a village to make a Broadway show happen in the first place. So to be able to run away and play with that group of people many times. Cause honestly, I it's a little vague, but I I would say at least five or six times we went back in. It wasn't like a once or twice and then done.

[20:02] Karli Dinardo: Yeah. It was like the span over two weeks. It was so much fun, but I'm very grateful that they were so accommodating, or else I may have not even been able to. And that's unusual, right? For a dance audition to go in five times, five or six times.

[20:17] Jamie DuMont: I think because um Wayne had such a like specific vision of the show, and obviously he was in the original, and we or all principles, and he he wanted everybody to be themselves and uniquely different from each other. I think that fun again, and this is I have no idea what happened behind the table, so I can only imagine how difficult it was. But the d wow, the jigsaw puzzle of figuring out how it all went together, is I think why we were back a few more times, but also I think about other processes, and I went in six or seven times for other shows too. But I think because it was our first major audition since the pandemic as well, and seeing I feel like our whole industry at at the auditions, it I think it just felt like more because we were so not used to being in spaces together.

And Wayne told us that he had to do because of coming back after the pandemic, the audition rooms were much smaller than they normally would have been. So that probably I don't know. I I you know I've been thinking about him saying that to us a couple of weeks ago and thinking that like does that make it easier? Is a smaller group as a I don't know, but I just it was something I was thinking about. Is it harder or easier when you have smaller groups versus larger groups when you're seeing people?

[21:30] Karli Dinardo: And to maybe to you, was it was it how was it auditioning in a smaller group than in a larger group?

[21:37] I think given the time that it was at, I appreciated it because it still felt like a lot of people coming from being in rooms of one or two people at most.

[21:47] Karli Dinardo: Or zooms, more zooms, more quarantine.

[21:49] Jamie DuMont: Exactly, literally isolation.

[21:51] Karli Dinardo: So I think it didn't feel small by any means at that time. I don't think there was one um round of auditions where I was like, oh, this is a small group. Like it definitely didn't feel that way at all. But then I think about what I was doing before the pandemic, which was auditioning for the the tour of Moulin Rouge, and we were seeing 60 people per group sometimes. And so if I use that comparison, I'm like, well, yeah, they were definitely small groups, but it definitely didn't feel small.

[22:17] Jamie DuMont: As a lay person, I imagine all dance auditions are like they are in All That Jazz. And it's a hundred people on stage and Catherine Deneuve in those boots, and people are leaping, and on Broadway is every audition song. And you're on stage at the Palace Theater.

[22:30] Karli Dinardo: Yeah, you know, because it is of course auditions happen in the theater, you know.

[22:35] Jamie DuMont: So that's not how it is, is what I'm hearing.

[22:38] Karli Dinardo: Some of it's the same. Minus the stage. I I don't think I haven't done one in in this country on stage.

[22:44] Karli Dinardo: But um, it's definitely in many ways, yes, it's like that. There are, I don't know, I find auditions some of the most inspiring rooms to be in because people can just think on the fly, they go on the fly, they trust themselves, and you just get to see people be and live in the moment without it being like a rehearsed performance. Um, and personally that I find that so inspiring to see how people can either step out of their own way or be so confident in a room, even if they've just learned the choreography or they've just been given sides or they've just been given sheet music to learn. And whether I've been in front of the table, which is a very unique perspective that Rouge gave me, um, versus being behind the I'm sorry, auditioning like I was doing for Fossey.

It's um I don't know, I feel like it's uh it's a classroom, it's a masterclass. You get to watch people who you admire and maybe have never worked with but have seen do 10 million shows or things and you get to be in the same space.

[23:37] Rob Russo: Well it's it's funny. I I've heard actors say this before that auditions are work, right? You know, and and it's a part of you you don't get paid to audition, but like in a way it's it's it's your job, right? Like when you're not employed, right?

[23:50] Karli Dinardo: I always say it's a free class.

[23:51] Rob Russo: Yeah, there you go. Yeah, exactly. Right. I mean it's it's all part and parcel of the whole job of being a performer, right? Is uh auditioning. The stakes are very high because you want the gig.

[24:02] Karli Dinardo: Absolutely.

[24:02] Rob Russo: Or you need to cast the show.

[24:04] Karli Dinardo: Yep. But then the stakes are also lower because you're learning everything for the first time, you're surrounded by other people, nobody has the job yet, right? It's an interesting dichotomy of of stress and tension and freedom.

[24:17] Karli Dinardo: Absolutely. And I think that's something specifically during dancing's audition process. For a few years leading up to that, I'd only ever been in front of the room or leading the room with Rouge. So it was a very specific perspective that I got to then walk into that room with, being like, Oh, well, I know how I feel when I'm the one doing that. So I'm not gonna add any extra pressure onto myself because they know what they're doing, they're making this room a beautiful environment to learn in. Also, there's obviously a time crunch, obviously, there are COVID protocols we have to deal with. Um, which again, I was really grateful for because I think it just meant that I didn't have to add any extra pressure. It was also like we're dancing in a room together for the first time in years. Like that in a that in itself is worth celebrating, no matter what happens afterwards. So yeah, there were so many things. It was such a unique moment in time for sure.

[25:08] Rob Russo: Well, fortunate for us, you got the job. Ah and you're now one of these incredible 22 principal dancers in Bob Fossey's dancing on Broadway. And one of the cool things about the show, which we've been talking about with everyone we've had on this podcast, is how everyone in the cast has a moment or moments where they pop, where they have a soloist moment or a certain song or a step or a mo, you know, whatever it is, right? And so of course, we can't sit with you and not talk about your show stopping act two number, uh, let it ride.

[25:40] Karli Dinardo: Yes.

[25:41] Rob Russo: So this is a Melissa Manchester song, which I finally listened. I I didn't know this song. I finally listened to her version yesterday. How cool in preparation, and I was like, whoa, okay, this is different.

[25:50] Karli Dinardo: Different vibe in Thailand.

[25:51] Rob Russo: Yes, I'll be saying to you for like a year and a half. I knew it was different. As an older person, I I actually I remember this song on the radio, and I'm a big we'll get to Melissa in a second, but I'm a big Melissa Manchester fan.

[26:03] Karli Dinardo: But you got there, yeah.

[26:04] Rob Russo: I got there. Well, I I I knew it was different because you know, the the the version is so like contemporary and alive, and and it certainly felt like oh, this is Fossey's, you know, this is dancing's version of this song.

[26:16] Karli Dinardo: Totally. Were you involved in the sort of shaping of this new take on the song?

[26:21] Karli Dinardo: Yeah, which is really crazy to think about, and I'm so grateful. So we did the workshop first, and I was doing double duty at the time with Rouge, which was an entirely crazy process, and also really cool to be doing two totally different things at the same time. And then when we started rehearsals for San Diego for our out of town, right before we started, Corinne called me and was like, Hey, we're changing some things up. So you won't be doing this part anymore, but we want you to sing a song. And I was like, Oh, okay, great. That sounds awesome. Like, yes, thank you. And then I got an email from Jim, which was incredible. It was just very um, it had a bunch of different attachments. He'd kind of played around with some orchestrations that he was thinking, and he was like, take a look at this, get familiar with it.

We'll play when we get into a room. Um, I just wanted you to have the material so that you could kind of start getting a vibe of what I'm going for. I responded back immediately, being like, Thank you so much. This sounds amazing. I can't wait. And I think I listened to Melissa's version like 19 times, like on repeat, and then listening to James to Jim's arrangement, and then he'd kind of recorded himself singing around on top of it, just like as a as a template. And so when we started rehearsals, we went into one of the rehearsal rooms and we just started playing. And I've never had that experience before with a song. Yeah. I think I've been fortunate to be a part of creation of choreography many times, but when it came to um the music part, that was very much always like handed to us on sheet music.

It was a very special process, and I feel very grateful that I got to, you know, we got to play around with notes and roofs, and I don't know, just have a bit of a oh, I love I love this. And he'd be like, okay, great, let's do that. And then he'd take that idea and run with it and then create this amazing thing. So it was really cool.

[28:10] Rob Russo: What's so great as an audience member, and now that I've seen the show so many times, I get to watch other audience members experience what I experienced the first time I saw it, which is Manny at the top says, you know, dance and dance and some singing and a lot of dancing, right? And I think people aren't maybe necessarily thinking, oh yeah, we're gonna get some powerhouse vocals in this show, right? And then in act two, you kick it off with, you know, let it ride. And then, you know, Corey has life is just the ball. There's like a handful of moments that were like, oh shit, these people can sing, right? They can not not just like sing, like they can sing.

[28:44] Karli Dinardo: Yeah, and it's pretty thrilling as an audience member to realize, like, oh yeah, they're triple threats. One of the parts about being able to sing a song in the show, which I don't take for granted in any way, because you know, often dance is a box as dances, and that's really what you then get categorized as, and to be seen as anything else is really complicated. Though I think we're changing that, surely but surely to be able to use our voices specifically for myself. I think a lot of my career I've really tried to push past just the box. And so to be able to show that we are triple threats all in our own right and for very different reasons, I think is just really special because everyone really is.

[29:30] Rob Russo: Well, speaking of cool things that have happened recently, Melissa Manchester came to see.

[29:34] Karli Dinardo: She did the show.

[29:35] Rob Russo: And you got to meet her afterwards. What was that like?

[29:38] Karli Dinardo: I think I went a little bit quiet. I just was smiling the whole time and like, hi. It's like it's really nice to meet you. And she was like, the show was great. I loved the song. It was like a different version. I was like, thank you so much. You know, I'm just terrified. She's gonna be like, I hated it. Why did you sing it like that? But she didn't, she was a sweetheart and she seemed to really enjoy the show, and yeah, she was so lovely. So I was I was all smiles and still sweating from the show.

[30:04] Rob Russo: So we to put a very fine point on this, to just point out how much Rob Russo and myself as well, but how much Rob Russo loves this moment in the show. He just swore. And he never swears.

[30:15] Rob Russo: That is true. I don't swear.

[30:16] Karli Dinardo: Either two things, one of two things have happened. He either really does love this moment, or unfortunately, I have rubbed off on him and my terrible potty mouth. But I really think it's um it's it's actually the former.

[30:29] Rob Russo: That's great though. Melissa Manchester is pretty huge.

[30:31] Karli Dinardo: She's huge.

[30:32] Rob Russo: I would have gone quiet too. I don't I don't think I could have gotten anywhere with I would have just been a blubbering fool.

[30:41] Karli Dinardo: So I know it's it's always it's cool to have people come and watch the show, and in the past it's been like I've been on in this track or that track, and it's been a part of an experience, but to be able to be singing her song, yeah. It's uh I truly like have no idea. Yeah thing to have happen. And I love the fact that you pointed out you meet you meet these famous people or these VIPs or whoever after the show, and you are sweating, right?

[31:05] Karli Dinardo: Oh, yes, you because you're just you haven't had a second, right? Because you have to stay in costume most of the time, right? Because they've got to get in and out, or whatever it is. I love that you pointed that out because I don't think I've ever heard another actor talk about the fact that, like, you know, we're sweating. You like want to give them a hug and you're like, I'm so sorry, I'm really gross right now, but it's so nice to meet you.

[31:25] Karli Dinardo: That's amazing. She was a good sport, though. She's like, Oh my god, it's fine. Of course you are. It's like, okay, that's good. At least like she understands.

[31:32] Rob Russo: Yeah, yeah. Well, another favorite moment of mine in the show, and I know it's Jamie's too, is percussion one.

[31:38] Karli Dinardo: Which I believe you guys call ding.

[31:39] Rob Russo: We do, yeah.

[31:40] Karli Dinardo: Yeah, that's sort of the behind the scenes nomenclature.

[31:42] Rob Russo: Yes.

[31:43] Karli Dinardo: Which is one of the more abstract moments in the show, dance-wise. Probably like the most modern. The first time I saw it, I was like, Martha Graham.

[31:50] Rob Russo: Totally. You know?

[31:50] Karli Dinardo: Yeah, okay. We we see that influence. And the more I've thought about it though, you're at the tip of a trio. And the thing that dawned on me a couple weeks ago was you can't see them behind you as you're doing this necessarily, right?

[32:05] Karli Dinardo: Not necessarily, no.

[32:06] Rob Russo: Right. And the timing of that piece is so precise and not necessarily what you might expect, right?

[32:15] Karli Dinardo: Totally.

[32:15] Rob Russo: In terms of when you move.

[32:19] Karli Dinardo: Absolutely.

[32:19] Rob Russo: And if you've seen the show, you know what I'm talking about, those who are listening. Was that a tricky thing to learn? That that dance?

[32:24] Karli Dinardo: Absolutely. And I think that's what's really cool about it is now we've gotten to a point where it kind of feels meditative for us in many ways. It definitely did not start that way. Um in the workshop when we um were first learning the choreography, it's this fine line of counting to make sure that you're A, not making a mistake, and B not then screwing up the person who's next in the canon. Um, but also like spacing wise, where you continue movement for elongated moments of time, and then like for instance, there's one position where like I'll see Maddie behind me as I'm fully reaching the fullest extent of the movement, or um at the beginning I'll like turn to the diagonal and I'll see Ida in my peripheral vision.

And so it's like only little snippets of moments where I get to clock in with them. So it's just making sure that I'm honoring my spacing and making sure I'm where I need to be so that they have enough space so that we're not gonna all of a sudden clash in the middle of slow movement, because that's just really awkward and exposed. So um, yeah, there's like no hiding in ding. So there's very much like we're all found the groove, and once I think we did it, I think we did it like three times at the beginning, and all of us looked at each other and like, can we do it again? And they're like, Yeah, of course. And we're like, yeah, we need it again. Just being familiar with the music alone, I think made the biggest difference.

Once you know what sounds you're listening for and where the markers are, the difference between like this type of a hit or that type of a hit, or the ding or the double ding, you know, it's just now it feels very familiar. And if something was to touch wood go awry, we I think know it well enough within our like bones that we could be fine.

[34:08] Karli Dinardo: But at the beginning it was terrifying. It's like if one act one musical accent wasn't there, it was like, I'm lost, I'm gone, I don't know where I am anymore. Like it was just, yeah, it's very exposed. So um, it was fun to learn because it is so different, yeah, and so modern, and um I was living like my contemporary dreams.

[34:27] Rob Russo: Yeah.

[34:28] Karli Dinardo: Um, I think we glossed over one thing, which is that you kind of start the show.

[34:33] Rob Russo: Yeah, right.

[34:34] Karli Dinardo: I mean, Manny gives his speech at the top.

[34:36] Rob Russo: Manny opens it, and then you come out and another sort of exposed solo moment.

[34:40] Karli Dinardo: You're just out there by yourself.

[34:42] Rob Russo: Yeah.

[34:42] Karli Dinardo: What does it feel like to strike that first pose, that first sort of bevel move, which is so iconic?

[34:49] Karli Dinardo: So iconic, truly so iconic. Honestly, it's one of my favorite moments in the show. Yeah, and not for reasons that you might assume. I think it's something about the ceremonial aspect of starting the show with breathing. Is just really special for me, and feeling the energy of the audience, and you get a good gauge of when Manny's talking, how it's gonna go and what type of audience if they're more like quiet and reserved, or if they're really loud, or and just walking out and stopping and taking them in, and then having the opportunity to walk all the way to like downstage, take a breath, and then start. Like there are so many moments in that where I get to really just process and be open to receiving all the energy from the from the house, which is I don't I don't think I've ever had that type of opportunity to do that in any other show when there's no music, there's no sound, there's no one speaking.

It's just like the unspoken synergy of live theater, and like I love that that I absolutely love it. And then just sometimes if people make sounds, it's like we're we're living in the same moment together. And so sometimes I'll crack a smile because I find it funny, and then I'll use that and go into my breath. And allowing the movement to then start from that place, I think it's just a really grounding way to start the show. And like then to do those movements is just yeah, it's really special.

[36:19] Rob Russo: I imagine you you must feel a lot of anticipation in the air.

[36:22] Karli Dinardo: Totally.

[36:22] Rob Russo: Like, what is she gonna do?

[36:23] Karli Dinardo: Totally, and sometimes, like, depending on when in the week it is, if my legs are more fatigued, like there are times I'll plie and like my legs are already shaking, and it's like, oh my god, no, not yet. We haven't, but you're just starting. You're not allowed to do that.

[36:35] Rob Russo: Yeah, right.

[36:36] Karli Dinardo: So it's always a good check-in as well to see where I'm do you signal to the musician, like just as your movement signal the musician, or do they start and that's how you take the breath, right?

[36:46] Karli Dinardo: Yes. So Justin can um there's this little monitor down um in the pit, and so when I stop, I try to not take a breath until the actual breath, and he can see that, and then we time together as I go down to the floor.

[37:00] Rob Russo: Yeah.

[37:01] Karli Dinardo: So it's uh I take the breath, he catches the breath, and then we start together.

[37:05] Rob Russo: Wow.

[37:05] Karli Dinardo: Yeah.

[37:05] Rob Russo: That's pretty cool.

[37:06] Karli Dinardo: It's really cool.

[37:08] Rob Russo: I did not expect there.

[37:11] Karli Dinardo: Well, that whole I think that whole that whole moment is not that one moment, but that that piece is deceptively hard. I I feel like as an audience member. I think two things. I think the audience, they don't quite know what to do at the beginning, right? They're they're they're a little like, where's the Rasmatazz? Where's the what why why is nothing happening? Right.

[37:32] Rob Russo: Right.

[37:32] Karli Dinardo: And then as they realize what is actually happening, I you as an audience member, and you may feel this on stage. You you go, oh, here we are.

[37:42] Karli Dinardo: Fully. And I love that I get to experience every single person's introduction. Yeah. As I'm facing stage right, but like I can very much see certain audience members as well, and I can see the cast in what they're doing. And so that yeah, that whole opening sequence is really cool because as they realize what's going on, then sometimes every single person gets like an entrance applause, you know, and some whatever they physically are doing when they finish, it's like, oh my god, yeah. Or they come in and like, woo, like they get it. And that's really cool to experience them understand what's happening, even when they're figuring it out, and it's like, oh, and then when we eventually get into crunchy proper, it's like, oh, I know exactly what's going on now, and they scream and it's amazing.

[38:24] Rob Russo: But um also the blackout at the end.

[38:27] Karli Dinardo: Oh, so good. I mean that talk about a butt, not a number. I love that. By that point, we're all just like panting really loudly. So the blackout's great.

[38:35] Rob Russo: It's a hard number.

[38:36] Karli Dinardo: It looks really tough.

[38:39] Karli Dinardo: It is, I mean, yeah, it is. It's like every style of dance in one number, is what it feels like as an audience member.

[38:46] Rob Russo: Yeah, it's definitely like one way to start the show. You shut out of a canon, it's just like go.

[38:50] Karli Dinardo: But I think that's why the beginning section is so cool as well, because we all use it as a breath of our own kind and like just to introduce ourselves to the audience in a really cool way before we then like hit it, you know?

[39:02] Rob Russo: So I have to ask, do you have a favorite moment in the show? Something you do or something someone else does?

[39:05] Karli Dinardo: Oh my god. Or maybe that's two separate questions.

[39:13] Karli Dinardo: The beginning, when I get to walk down and start the show, I think that's pretty consistently like a very special moment for me. Yeah. But for instance, dancing man, sing sing, even gotcha, there is just so many moments within the show that feel even beat me. Like there's just it's really like a rotating kick. I don't think I could just pick one, but for me, the interactions we have on stage with each other, they're what make the moment so special. Every number choreographically and you know iconically is so grand and enormous. And so for those reasons, like with dance and man, dance as prayer, like for all of the sentimental, beautiful reasons that it means so much to us all. There are some nights where we get into that last section and I just have like tears streaming down my face.

Because it's just you you can't put it into words because it just this feeling is just so insanely like bigger than us. And then sometimes it's sing sing sing, and we're doing something so small, but the the energy that's being shared with the cast, or we're all screaming for each other, or something so little or silly, it just makes it more special than I think I can say. You know, it's like those live theater moments where we're connecting with each other, telling the story that we're telling. Um they are what make it each night so different.

[40:45] Rob Russo: Yeah.

[40:45] Karli Dinardo: Yeah, of course. How about a favorite step? Maybe that's an easier question.

[40:48] Rob Russo: Or no, maybe it's just as hard.

[40:51] Karli Dinardo: I don't know. I'm terri honestly. Overall, I'm terrible at favorite questions.

[40:55] Rob Russo: Okay, well, so am I, actually, which is ironic that I'm the one asking it.

[40:58] Karli Dinardo: Then you probably won't be able to answer this. But is there a moment in the show you will go, oh, for fuck's sake, I can't do that again? Or he's insane. This this is this is too much. She being Bob Fossey.

[41:07] Karli Dinardo: Yes.

[41:07] Rob Russo: Like this is because we've heard from some people that there are moments where they're like, this counting is crazy.

[41:14] Karli Dinardo: Yeah.

[41:14] Rob Russo: Is you have a moment where you're just like, this is crazy.

[41:17] Karli Dinardo: Um in a good time. I mean, totally, but I think I would choose just where it comes in the show, the end of the brass band section of America, as we run off in those like really hyper-stylized, bold movements. Once we get off stage, it's that like, oh because you're you're literally running and your heels were in three-inch heels, like they're just like not slamming into the floor because obviously, you know, we have technique and we're gonna not slam our feet into the floor, but you're in such a um hinged shape, and your feet have to come so high in front of you that it just feels like the exertion is so high, and at that point in act two, you're just like, oh my god, and then you walk down the stairs to change, and it's just like a very slow crawl downstairs. That's definitely a moment that exit step is um, yeah, that you can't fake it. There's no way you just have to do it right. It's uh high energy, hypermobile moment that is hard in act two.

[42:16] Rob Russo: Well, you've been so generous with your time and your insight into the show and sharing your process and your story. We really appreciate it. One final question for you.

[42:24] Karli Dinardo: Yeah.

[42:25] Rob Russo: Now that you've gone through this process and you've gotten the chance to sink your teeth into the world of Bob Fosse, what does Bob Fossey mean to you?

[42:35] Karli Dinardo: That is a great question. I feel very lucky that I've been able to experience his work in the way that this experience has allowed me to. Taking the experiences from Wayne and the stories that he shares with us. It's something that I don't know if would have been the same if I had come, if I like my life was at a different time. And I think to me, Bob's work means individuality and that celebration of uniqueness that not one person looks the same as the other, but yet we're all doing the same step because we all but we all have a different internal monologue that's going on at all times. Um, and our whys are different. I I often talk about like why we do what we do, and everybody has their own reason, and I think all of those contributing factors is what I can connect to as Bob Fossey.

I think intended his work to be done, and and being and studying the iconic humans and artists that have brought his work to life, as well as himself, whether it's film, television, theater, each one of them are so unique in their nuance and their dynamics and the textures that they express their movement with, as well as watching them being like, what is going on in there? Like I'm so curious and fascinated by their artistry. That is really cool to me and something that I'm really grateful to be exploring through his movement. And I think that's what makes me feel the closest to him for sure.

[44:12] Rob Russo: Well, now you get to be one of those iconic humans.

[44:15] Karli Dinardo: Oh my god!

[44:16] Rob Russo: Interpreting this material for a new generation, which I imagine feels pretty cool.

[44:20] Karli Dinardo: Yeah, absolutely.

[44:22] Rob Russo: It's still surreal, to be honest.

[44:24] Karli Dinardo: Yeah.

[44:24] Rob Russo: Well, thank you so so much.

[44:26] Karli Dinardo: Thank you.

[44:26] Rob Russo: Thank you so much for having me.

[44:31] Karli Dinardo: A dancing man.

[44:34] Karli Dinardo: A dancing man with footsteps on the set.

[44:41] Rob Russo: Bob Fosse's dancing is now on Broadway at the Music Box Theater.

[44:44] Karli Dinardo: For tickets and more information, visit dancingBWay.com.

[44:48] Rob Russo: Dancing Man, a Fabulous Invalid podcast, is a production of OM etc. and the Fabulous Invalid LLC, and a proud member of the Broadway Podcast Network. Special thanks to Civilian for hosting us and to our audio engineer, Kyle Moore.

[45:01] Rob Russo: If you liked this episode, we've got over a hundred episodes of the Fabulous Invalid Podcast that you can check out, including a two-parter on the life, work, and legacy of Bob Fossey and Gwen Verden. You can find us online at the FabulousInvalid.com and on social media at Fabulous Invalid and on iTunes, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts.