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[0:09] Rob Russo: Welcome to DANCIN’ Man, a Fabulous Invalid podcast featuring exclusive behind-the-scenes interviews with the cast and creative team of Bob Fosse's DANCIN’ on Broadway.

[0:17] Jamie DuMont: I'm Jamie DuMont.

[0:19] Rob Russo: And I'm Rob Russo.

[0:20] Jamie DuMont: And we're your hosts.

[0:21] Rob Russo: We're also so excited to be co-producers of DANCIN’ on Broadway and thrilled to be back in the Rosevale Cocktail Room at Civilian for another conversation with another extraordinary member of the cast.

[0:32] Jamie DuMont: Yes, and speaking of extraordinary, joining us this week is cast member Khori Michelle Petinaud, a veteran of the original companies of Aladdin and Moulin Rouge on Broadway, and national tours of Roman Holiday and The Color Purple, and just an all-around incredible person.

[0:46] Rob Russo: Oh my god, the minute that we talked about her bio and I realized that she was in the original company of Aladdin, I immediately flashed in my head, oh my god, she popped.

[0:56] Jamie DuMont: I remembered her. I mean, there were so many wonderful people making their Broadway debut in Aladdin, but I knew exactly who she was and her moments and particularly her moments in the opening.

[1:07] Rob Russo: Yes.

[1:08] Jamie DuMont: Well, once you've seen her on stage, she's hard to forget.

[1:10] Rob Russo: That's so true.

[1:11] Jamie DuMont: Yes. Well, let's get to our interview. Let's welcome to the show, Khori.

[1:25] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Thank you so much for joining us. We're talking to you just a few days before opening night. So thank you. We know how busy you are. So from 2021 to now, you've done a lab presentation, rehearsals, an out-of-town tryout in San Diego, which we saw, rehearsals, previews, tech. I just have to say tech because that's monumental. And now you're opening.

[1:47] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Yes.

[1:48] Rob Russo: So that's a long way of saying, how are you feeling today?

[1:50] Khori Michelle Petinaud: I am so excited to get to this next stage. I mean, when we were in San Diego, and actually, even before that, in 2021, I was a part of a very small workshop that happened before the auditions and the lab and everything. And that was actually when I was very newly postpartum, and it was the first job that I had really done. And I was like, this is my dream job, but I don't feel ready.

[2:15] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Um, and it was crazy because I was trying to juggle like being a working mom at the time. And so to be able to have taken the show from that point to now where we're getting ready to open on Broadway, it is so exciting.

[2:27] Rob Russo: And how did you get involved at the start?

[2:29] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Um, actually, a friend, um, the wife of one of our cast members, Peter Shurzen's wife, Brooke Wendell, um, she randomly reached out to me and she was like, "Hey, so I have a friend who's looking for some dancers for something. Would you be available for these dates?" And she didn't tell me anything about it. And I was like, "Yeah, I'm available. I'm just like hanging out with my kid." And then I get a text message from Corinne, and she was like, "Um, hey, we don't know each other, but Brooke recommended you, and we are doing a little small workshop of something for DANCIN’."

[2:45] Khori Michelle Petinaud: And I was like, oh, what? And literally I get chills thinking about it because I was like, I can't believe this is happening right now. Like it's literally my biggest dream come true, but also like I'm scared shitless. Can I curse?

[3:12] Rob Russo: Oh, fuck yeah.

[3:14] Khori Michelle Petinaud: I was like, I'm scared shitless because I don't feel ready. Like I just had a baby and I don't know like what I can do in the studio now. Like I haven't been back to dance classes and I was so nervous, but it just it was such an incredible opportunity, and I just feel so thankful that I was able to get in at the very beginning.

[3:31] Khori Michelle Petinaud: We went to a workshop at Foodie 42, New 42 or whatever around Christmas time. I remember West Side Story film opened up that week or that day.

[3:40] Rob Russo: Yes.

[3:41] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Because we then went, and then half of you all were at the end.

[3:43] Rob Russo: Yeah, so many of the people were there.

[3:45] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Yeah, and in the film. So but that's not the workshop you're talking about. You did a pre-workshop. So what was that? What was that? What did you guys do? What was that like?

[3:52] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Yeah, it was awesome. So it was basically, I don't remember exactly, I think it may have been eight or nine dancers in the room with Wayne, Corinne, Christine Colby, who was um one of the original dance captains in the show who helped kind of restage a lot of the original work. And then we had all the musicians who were literally deciphering the score from the original, which was like, you know, scribbles all over. It was so cool to see it because they were just trying to break down all the musicality and stuff that was happening.

[4:21] Khori Michelle Petinaud: And it was literally the bare bones part of it, like figuring out the counts, like what exactly is this step? Like we were literally just trying to comprise the work back together so that when the workshop did happen, everyone was prepared to sort of be like, this is the count, this is the step, this is exactly what the angle is, and all that kind of stuff. So it was very, very experimental at that point.

[4:42] Rob Russo: So you were all like dance captains in a way, or assistant choreographers, or reconstructors, or yeah, yeah, exactly.

[4:52] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Yeah, that's a good word. Kind of going through what I can imagine was not a fully fleshed out version of what the show was, right? You're pulling and trying to, and then you have Wayne's like encyclopedia memory of the He's trying to remember all the things and like Christine's piecing things together, and they also at the time weren't sure what material they were going to be using or not.

[5:15] Khori Michelle Petinaud: So it was kind of like, let's just try to figure out all of these numbers, and then we'll see what we end up with to use for the workshop.

[5:23] Rob Russo: What did you walk away from that first workshop feeling?

[5:27] Khori Michelle Petinaud: I felt so invigorated. I was like, I have to be a part of this. I don't know what I have to do, but I have to be a part of this. I had to figure it out. Um, I felt really proud of myself because I was still like full-time breastfeeding. My best friend was like walking around with my son every two to three hours, so I could like give him a quick sip before I went back to rehearsal.

[5:47] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Um, so I was like really juggling. It was my first experience juggling parenthood at the time, and I was like, okay, I can do this, like this is possible. And to feel like I'm was so right for something, but also feeling like so not ready. It was actually a really good push in the direction of like you are ready to do this, even though you don't feel like it, and just keep pushing through.

[6:09] Khori Michelle Petinaud: And thankfully, like Corinne and Wayne were so supportive because they both have kids. I mean, Wayne had kids when he was in the industry, and he knows what it's like to have littles while doing a Broadway show, and Corinne has two littles. So it was just like I felt so supported by both of them, and I felt like I can do this.

[6:24] Rob Russo: Well, it's such a blessing to hear about a room that is so supportive and understanding of, you know, dancers. And I think maybe perhaps because it is an all-dance show.

[6:33] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Yes, you all share that same bond. You know, it's not like there are people with vastly different experiences because at its core, you're all kind of doing the same thing, even though you might have different training and backgrounds.

[6:43] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Totally. And I'm wondering if you could share with us a little bit about when you started dancing, yeah. And what your training was.

[6:48] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Yeah, um, I started pretty late in comparison to I guess when most people start. Um, I started when I was 13. My dad, yeah, we've been hearing two, three.

[6:58] Rob Russo: Yeah.

[6:58] Khori Michelle Petinaud: I mean, I was doing it on my own, but I wasn't having like formal training. Um, my dad was like really wanting me to be the next Serena Williams, so he was like, "You're playing tennis." Um, and I was playing tennis and basketball, and then my mom took me to go see Dance Theatre of Harlem at the Kennedy Center, and my life was changed.

[7:15] Khori Michelle Petinaud: And I was like, oh my God, look at those beautiful brown ballet dancers. They look just like me. And I told my mom when we walked out, I was like, I want to go to Dance Theatre of Harlem and I want to be a ballerina. And she put me in ballet classes like that next week.

[7:26] Khori Michelle Petinaud: And that following summer, I went to Dance Theatre of Harlem and I was like training very hardcore to like be a ballerina, which like at 13 starting is crazy because most people are like going to companies at 16. But I just was like powering through going to summer programs and taking a bunch of classes.

[7:42] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Um, and then by the time I got to my senior year of college or high school, I realized like, okay, I don't know if I want to do ballet, but I definitely want to dedicate my life to dance. Um, and so I went to NYU and got my degree in dance.

[7:54] Khori Michelle Petinaud: And then I danced for a bunch of different contemporary companies when I graduated from school and was kind of like dabbling in musical theater, like kind of what all New York City dancers do. It's like, how can I make money? Like I need to, I need to try to audition for all the things.

[8:09] Khori Michelle Petinaud: And at the time I was only auditioning for The Lion King because it was like number one, I think at that time, the only Broadway show I'd ever seen. And number two, it was really the only show I thought I could be in at the time. I was like, okay, well, I am a black dancer, number one, and number two, my training is very formal, like Horton and ballet, and I felt like my training aligned with the show the most.

[8:31] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Um, so that was like the only audition I was going to for musical theater for like a really long time. I would go to every ECC, and I was like, here I am, like remember to it, yeah, I'm back.

[8:41] Rob Russo: Um, and then like as I was going for it and making it further in the process, I was like, oh, I actually feel like I like this. And that's when I started to, you know, dabble a little bit more, and I went on tour with The Color Purple. That was the first musical I left to go do.

[8:54] Khori Michelle Petinaud: And then when I got back, I got an agent and I got like very hardcore into the musical theater life.

[8:59] Rob Russo: Well, it's amazing to me to think after seeing you on stage at the Music Box Theatre that you didn't really come to musical theater, you know, training-wise until later in your life. Because you, you know, we look at you on stage and we're like, well, she's the real thing, right? She's a triple threat to use that term, right?

[9:18] Khori Michelle Petinaud: You also get, well, we're gonna talk about dancing in a second, yeah.

[9:21] Rob Russo: But you also get like a star entrance, right? Your first moment out the gate is like diva.

[9:28] Khori Michelle Petinaud: It's really great. It's like really the first thing I thought of when we saw it was I don't know if you've seen the footage of Eartha Kitt and Tim Buck 2.

[9:36] Rob Russo: Yes, when she's literally carried on to stage.

[9:39] Khori Michelle Petinaud: I don't know when that is in the show because I, you know, I've never seen it. It was before my time. But I was like, okay, yes, that is an entrance.

[9:46] Rob Russo: It's coming in right on the shoulders.

[9:48] Khori Michelle Petinaud: On the shoulders, exactly. It's like the peasants will carry you in, you know.

[9:52] Rob Russo: Yeah, no, there's a there's a real like royalty factor to that entrance, which I think.

[9:57] Khori Michelle Petinaud: I love it. I love it. I said diva, he says royalty, but they all work.

[10:00] Rob Russo: Yeah, yeah, one and the same.

[10:02] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Different sounds in the same point.

[10:03] Rob Russo: Well, it's interesting. You um give a shout out to a teacher of yours on a video that was just released, Albert Blackstone. I was wondering if you could say a little bit about him and how he figured into your training.

[10:13] Khori Michelle Petinaud: He's literally like he's the best. Um, he he quite literally just changed my entire approach to dance because I because I had had such formal training and it was really condensed, I was very focused on like technique and being as clean as I could and lines and all of those things.

[10:31] Khori Michelle Petinaud: And as I was transitioning into musical theater, I was like, oh, I'm realizing like this isn't really working. Like it doesn't, it's not enough to come into a musical theater audition room as a dancer and have like very clean lines and all that. That'll get you like one callback, but it's probably not gonna get you the job.

[10:48] Khori Michelle Petinaud: And the storytelling element of it, I just completely didn't have. And I was taking Al's class religiously, mainly because like a lot of dancers in New York City will call his class like church. Like it really is. It's just so therapeutic and beautiful, and he really just is so supportive and creates an environment of um curiosity that was really new to me as a dancer at the time.

[11:10] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Um, and so to be able to do these story-driven pieces in class and to sort of connect to who I was as a storyteller was where it all began in his classes. And I felt like it was the thing that sort of took my dancing to the next level because I started to understand, like from my perspective, what type of mover I am and what kind of stories I like to tell, and what my point of view is as a dancer.

[11:34] Khori Michelle Petinaud: So I can I literally thank him for that.

[11:37] Rob Russo: And of course, all of that is so essential to the Fosse style.

[11:39] Khori Michelle Petinaud: 100%.

[11:40] Rob Russo: Right. It's it's what you bring to it, it's the storytelling.

[11:43] Khori Michelle Petinaud: 100% totally.

[11:44] Rob Russo: Yeah, yeah. Well, speaking of precision, I believe you've also been a Rockette.

[11:48] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Yes.

[11:50] Rob Russo: I did. So what is it like to to you know that type of dancing versus musical theater dancing, which you know so different.

[11:58] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Yeah, yeah. So different. I mean, last season was my first season, and I talk about grueling. I mean, it was by far the hardest thing I've ever done.

[12:09] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Yeah. And I don't know if it was probably a mixture of a lot of things. It's like most people don't go into being Rockettes when they're my age and have a family and all that. They usually start when they're very young and they haven't done all these other things.

[12:21] Khori Michelle Petinaud: And so for me, it was like doing it in reverse. It felt like very difficult. And you know, the way that they do things there, it is so to a T specific that I was like, wow, I think my brain is actually really going to enjoy this, but it's gonna be a big challenge to try to like meld with other um dancers in that kind of way.

[12:42] Khori Michelle Petinaud: But I'm so thankful that I was able to do it because I mean I got I tore my hamstring during the season, so I did the whole season with a torn hamstring. I was really kind of pushing through a lot of obstacles, so I feel very proud of myself that I made it through.

[12:55] Khori Michelle Petinaud: But it was a really nice thing to sort of prep me to move into doing dance and really for stamina mainly because I mean the most sometimes we did 17 shows at Radio City a week. So, you know, like in comparison to eight shows a week, I was like, okay, I feel like I'm probably ready to do that.

[13:14] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Yeah, so longer.

[13:16] Rob Russo: Yeah, it's wild, it's really wild.

[13:18] Khori Michelle Petinaud: It's a grueling schedule.

[13:19] Rob Russo: Wow, very grueling, yeah, but so beautiful. And my son got to come and see me perform for the first time, and it was awesome to be a part of such a um iconic Christmas tradition. So that was cool.

[13:31] Jamie DuMont: Well, speaking of motherhood, you um host a podcast about motherhood, about specifically black motherhood.

[13:39] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Yes, and it's called Mother.

[13:41] Jamie DuMont: We spoke about it when you first walked in.

[13:43] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Yes. I have been listening to it, and um, it's fantastic. One of the things you talk about is juggling a busy schedule and and and how you how you can sort of balance all of those things.

[13:54] Khori Michelle Petinaud: So, talk to us just a little bit about the experience of actually doing the podcast, adding one more thing onto your already very busy life.

[14:01] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Well, season one was a lot easier to do for all three of us, I think, because I mean, obviously, we were new moms, so that was really difficult, but the world was in a different place, and so we weren't really juggling as much in terms of like trying to audition and like going back to doing eight shows a week and all that kind of stuff. We didn't really have that pressure. And so it felt like for season one, really a therapeutic safe space that I think all three of us were looking forward to coming to because we were all kind of struggling with the same thing of like, what's happening in the world? We're new moms, like we need to work, but also we're really grateful for this time that we have with our families.

And so season one was, I think, in comparison to season two, like not as much of the juggling, but then season two came, and that's when it was like, whoa, like we're really like we're doing a lot. Um, and thankfully we were able to bring on some producers, Snack Time Studios who were amazing to sort of help us navigate some of the extra things with social media and stuff. Um, but that's where we really got into the grit of the juggling of going back to the show, like coming back from the shutdown. Myself and Shanika had seven or eight month-old babies at the time, and we were still breastfeeding and like still trying to do that, but back in 10 to six rehearsals and being away from our kids all day.

Um, and so, and even just juggling, trying to record the episodes was really, really difficult because we wanted to all be together. Season one was all on Zoom. Um, and so season two was the first time that we were able to be in space together with each other, which created a whole nother incredible level, but then also a lot more difficulty in terms of scheduling. So we just finished season two. It was such a labor of love because dealing with not only the three of our schedules, but our production team schedules, which is another three people, um, was borderline impossible. So I'm so proud of us that we were able to accomplish that. And it was the biggest juggle of all to get it done, but we are so passionate about sharing that perspective because I think for the three of us, there are a lot of moms in the business that we knew of, but a lot of people didn't feel comfortable talking about being moms because it felt like maybe you were gonna be judged, or maybe someone would not think about you for an opportunity because they're like, oh, she's got too much going on.

And people I feel like before the pandemic were a little bit more hesitant to talk about motherhood in Broadway. But there are so many parents that are doing this thing, and it's important for us to be loud about the things that we're juggling and the things we're struggling with, the things that we need. Um, so we just felt like it was important enough to add it to our already busy schedule to make it happen.

[16:41] Rob Russo: What I love about your show is that you all have such a great outlook on life, but you also give each other and the listener permission to have a bad day, to have a bad reaction, and to carve out time for those feelings and those emotions, and that it's okay. And as someone who doesn't have children listening to it, I felt really empowered to deal with my bad feelings and my emotions about my own busy schedule. So it's really a terrific listen.

[17:11] Khori Michelle Petinaud: The other thing I have to say that I love is you all have a phrase, I feel like you say it more than anybody, but I've heard you all say it booked and blessed.

[17:11] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Booked and blessed.

[17:20] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Yes. Which we definitely end our last episode talking about that because we had to be on Zoom because we were all booked and blessed.

[17:27] Khori Michelle Petinaud: We're too busy, right?

[17:29] Rob Russo: Which is not a bad place to be.

[17:30] Khori Michelle Petinaud: No, not at all. Yeah, well, speaking of booking the job, this is your third Broadway show, I believe. And it's also your third time in the original cast of a Broadway show, which is a pretty cool experience to have now three times.

[17:41] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Yes. I'm wondering from Aladdin to Moulin Rouge to DANCIN', all very different shows.

[17:47] Khori Michelle Petinaud: So different. How do they compare to each other in terms of the experience?

[17:51] Khori Michelle Petinaud: I mean, they were all incredible for very different reasons, all are incredible. I mean, Aladdin was my first, and you never get your first again. So that was so special. And the people in that show, I mean, I have my son's godmother is um in that show, and like just people that I feel like really are staples in my life. I met doing Aladdin, and it just was such a special group of people, a special time. My journey to getting Moulin Rouge was kind of roundabout, but I've had worked with Sonia before um doing the show, and just to be able to share that moment with her as her debut as a Broadway choreography choreographer, and being able to sort of build those things from the ground up with a group of people that were just so hungry to do the thing and to share it with the world.

And it's the same with DANCIN', you know, like it's just iconic people. I feel like I have been so lucky to work with iconic people that are just so incredible at what they do and masters at their craft. And I feel like with each of those experiences, I've really carried so many different parts of the things I've learned from the different people I've worked with in those experiences. And DANCIN', I feel like is just such an overload of that. Um, because everyone is just so multifaceted as an artist. Um, and to be able to feel that energy on stage, it's it's unreal. It's absolutely unreal.

[19:17] Rob Russo: It's unreal from the audience, too.

[19:20] Khori Michelle Petinaud: So can we sell?

[19:21] Rob Russo: Yeah, can report.

[19:23] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Well, something Rob and I talk a lot about with DANCIN' is the fact that every company member, every principal, everyone is a principal, every principal in the show gets a moment to shine. We've spoken of your entrance where you're you're you're lifted and carried in by Colton. Um, which I think we explained quite well. And then in percussion, which is a few numbers later, you limbo under Jacob.

[19:53] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Thank you. His name went out of my head, which the audience goes crazy for. Um they love a limbo.

[20:00] Khori Michelle Petinaud: They love a limbo.

[20:01] Jamie DuMont: And then there's that tension of is she gonna do it?

[20:03] Rob Russo: Yeah, is she gonna pull it off?

[20:06] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Is that in your mind too?

[20:07] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Oh totally, every night I'm like, Whoa, what's gonna happen? Here we go.

[20:11] Rob Russo: And this is the third, but certainly not the last or least of your moments, rich man's fruit, which also gets the audience wild.

[20:21] Jamie DuMont: The other thing, everybody loves sweet charity.

[20:24] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Oh, yeah.

[20:24] Rob Russo: I mean, they hear those chords, they're like, Yes.

[20:30] Khori Michelle Petinaud: I guess.

[20:30] Khori Michelle Petinaud: I guess my question is maybe let's take charity for a second. When you come in with the company and you're center and you're the audience is going crazy, what is going through your mind? What is your motivation? What's happening?

[20:41] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Honestly, I just the way that I feel like the frug embodies like all the things I love about Bob Fosse's work. Like I just love that moment. I love the frug in general. I think it's one of his most brilliant pieces of work in totality. So to be able to do even just a little snippet of it, it just feels like so incredible. And I literally just feel like the coolest person when I come out. I'm like, and we say, like, but when we're standing on the side before we go in, we like all pick a place that we're at for the day. We're like, what kind of club are we at today? What are we giving in the face today? And it's just so fun to be able to sort of step into that character.

[21:22] Rob Russo: Everyone's attitude in fruit is cool, but for me, when I look at you, I feel power.

[21:28] Khori Michelle Petinaud: That's what I'm feeling from you. It's just this enormous power and presence.

[21:32] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Thank you. I appreciate that. I'm definitely going for that.

[21:37] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Received. Received, let me tell you.

[21:40] Rob Russo: Well, another really stunning moment in the show is in act two, right at the top, sing sing, which is just this incredible explosion of just joy.

[21:49] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Yes.

[21:50] Khori Michelle Petinaud: And it goes on forever and you don't want it to end. And you're like, you think it's ended, and then it keeps going, you're like, yes, and then it does end. You're like, no. It's such a roller coaster of emotions. Um, but you have not only like the greatest entrance of the show at the beginning of the show, but also the best exit in the show during the trombone solo. Can you explain for our listeners what happens?

[22:12] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Yes. What is going on?

[22:17] Khori Michelle Petinaud: So basically, what happens is I have two lovely men, Ronnie and Yaman, who I'm dancing with, and they basically lift me up into like somewhat of a shoulder stand, and then I hook my legs over their arms, and then I dangle from their arms, basically, as I'm caressing their chests, yes, upside down. I'm dangling upside down. So, you know, I mean, it is it's not easy. I'm definitely squeezing my hamstrings for life to try to stay up. And I know they're, you know, fiddling with their arms and shoulders to make sure that they've got me in supporting me. But I think at this point we've we've workshopped it enough, but in the beginning, it was definitely like, oh gosh, like how are we gonna do this? And how do we get off stage? And you know, like you're just kind of like shimmying off and trying to figure it out.

[23:07] Rob Russo: So well, that's the most phenomenal thing to me. When I noticed quite early on, I think it might have been the invited dress or first preview. I noticed because we were off on the side, that when you guys get off stage, it seems like you're is dismount the right word.

[23:24] Khori Michelle Petinaud: We do a dismount.

[23:25] Rob Russo: Is choreographed.

[23:26] Khori Michelle Petinaud: It feels it, it is gorgeous to watch, and it's for like no one.

[23:31] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Yes, like me and the six other people on the side get to see it. And I love that you saw that.

[23:38] Khori Michelle Petinaud: And so I'm not mistaken. That is fully a like that is you are still in the moment.

[23:43] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Oh, 100%. Because we know, like, I mean, the way that our stage is set up, like we're it's very open in the wings, like we don't have traditional wings in that sense. So it was always like when we were in San Diego, it was always kind of a struggle figuring out that exit because it's such a kind of funky dismount. Like it isn't something that's necessarily super pretty. Um, and so we've always been trying to figure out how to make it work because we can't go all the way into the wing, and so it kind of just turned into this thing where we're like, okay, like we're now we're dismounting and we're going off to our next escapade, which is supposed to be part of the story anyway.

[24:15] Khori Michelle Petinaud: So it's like liquid, is what it is.

[24:18] Rob Russo: It's so smooth and slow, and it's I it I sometimes think it's my favorite moment in the show. Because I also love the fact that it's for it's it's not really for anyone.

[24:31] Khori Michelle Petinaud: It's for everyone, it's private.

[24:32] Rob Russo: That's a great way to put it.

[24:33] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Yeah, it's private. Yeah. And it, and you know, it's so interesting because Wayne always tells us, like, one of the things that Bob used to always say is let the audience come to you. Like, you don't have to work so hard to try to make them like you. And that a lot of Bob's work is kind of like you're peering into something that you're not necessarily supposed to see, because it is about the people who are doing it and that community and the world they're creating. And the audience is just getting a chance to kind of peek behind the curtain and see what it is, but it's not necessarily for them. Um, which is something that is such a different perspective in musical theater because it's all about like, look at me and like here we are. And Bob's work is so not that, which is so special because then as a company, we really get to create this world with each other that I think hopefully the audience then feels like they're invited to like a secret party.

[25:23] Rob Russo: Oh, a hundred percent. And there's always like anything, like that person to place hard to get.

[25:27] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Yeah.

[25:27] Rob Russo: Right?

[25:28] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Totally makes us say, well, wait, we we watched on this.

[25:31] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Yes, yes.

[25:32] Rob Russo: You want to know the joke, you want to know the secret.

[25:34] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Totally. It makes us lean in more.

[25:36] Rob Russo: Of course. Whereas if you guys were just, you know, people always say jazz hands, right? But if it was truly just presentational jazz hands, that's a little off-putting.

[25:43] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Totally.

[25:44] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Right? You can almost sit back. You're like, okay, now I'm just receiving this sort of passively. Whereas what you're describing is a more active it requires a more active audience participation in a way.

[25:53] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Yes.

[25:54] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Mentally, yeah, and also energy-wise.

[25:56] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Yes, and I and I live for that. I love it. I mean, even in Moulin Rouge, like our pre-show, that was like my favorite part of the show because I loved kind of connecting with people in the audience and sort of letting them know I see them, but like I'm not really gonna give you much else, you know.

[26:11] Rob Russo: And it was really fun to kind of have that little moment before we got into the more presentational part of the show.

[26:17] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Yeah. Well, there's another part um that I becoming fast one of my favorite parts of the show. Which of course they're all my favorite part of the show. Um but in America, you, Yanni, and Manny.

[26:27] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Yes.

[26:28] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Which I love, it's Corey, Yanni, Manny.

[26:30] Khori Michelle Petinaud: It's all the ease.

[26:32] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Do a trio. It's very quick.

[26:33] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Yes.

[26:34] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Gary Owen, I believe is the name of the piece.

[26:36] Khori Michelle Petinaud: That I believe has changed musically since since uh San Diego.

[26:41] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Yes.

[26:41] Khori Michelle Petinaud: And even the people that were doing it, I myself and Yanni were not originally doing it.

[26:45] Khori Michelle Petinaud: There you go. I was wondering if you could if you could explain a little bit about that moment within America, because America is a very complex, layered, multifaceted.

[26:53] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Yes, it is. Uh piece of the show.

[26:55] Khori Michelle Petinaud: It's, I think one of the more complex pieces of the show.

[26:57] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Totally, at least in terms of the subject matter and the themes, which you know, America talked about a complicated topic. There is not one more complicated thing, I think, than that.

[27:07] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Exactly. So Gary Owen is yet another layer in this very layered thing. So I'm wondering if you could explain, you know, what the motivation behind that dance is.

[27:17] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Well, I know musically that at the very top of it, they've kind of layered on a Native American um tune as homage to the original Americans of North America. And yet, like I said, originally myself and Yanni were not doing that that piece. And I think part of the reason why we are doing it now is because of the fact that the three of us are people of color and kind of representing that element of America, which I appreciate.

[27:46] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Um, but I will say that the number as a whole, like all of America, all of the pieces, it's you may have heard this from other people who've spoken with you. It was like kind of the labor child of this entire process because of how complicated of a subject matter it is. And you know, when Bob originally did it, it was like very satirical, and a lot of the things that he had in there, people would probably be like so pissed at right now. Like if they were to watch it in a show, they'd be like, what is happening? And I, you know, Wayne wasn't sure that it was something that people would really connect to at this particular point. So it was really complicated to try to figure out a version of this where it felt like we were paying homage to the original, but also sort of giving people a little bit more room to sort of make their own interpretations about how they felt about it.

And I think that's kind of where we've landed is that everyone has a different perspective on what Bob's trying to say, what we're trying to say, and I think that's on purpose. And so that's kind of for me and my perspective, I'm coming from my life experiences and my feelings about America in all of that, um, in that entire number. And it's complicated. It's very complicated for me. So I think every day I'm kind of approaching it from a different place. Some place sometimes it's from a place of pride, other times it's extreme disappointment. Um, it's so many different things, but I think that anyone can identify with that perspective on America because we've all had experiences where we've felt very indifferent about this country. As we, you know, we navigate through turbulent times, I would imagine that the tenor of America could change nightly based on what's going on in the country.

[29:30] Rob Russo: 100%. Not only what's going on in your day personally, but just in the country.

[29:35] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Absolutely. So it's a fascinating mirror up to so many things.

[29:40] Rob Russo: Yes, yes. And and because we were given so much freedom and room, because we now are coming from a perspective, whereas with Bob's, I think he was very much like, I'm saying this thing. And that's what it is. And so as an actor, you take that on. Um, I think this version of America is very much like I can be saying one thing, Jovan can be saying something else. We're all coming from different perspectives, which then leaves the audience with a place of like, let me think about what I feel about this number and what I think about America and what I think about its place in this, you know, entire entity of dances. Um, and so it allows for all of us to really feel fully wherever we're at in that moment.

[30:21] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Yeah, and it's it's it's very disarming, I think, as an audience member because it's the most um, for lack of a better word, sort of intellectual or introspective part of the show because of all the layers that we've talked about, right? And it does call upon the audience. I I've seen it several times now, again, redact uh a redacted number of times, uh, lest I be arrested.

[30:43] Rob Russo: Um for the music box theater.

[30:45] Khori Michelle Petinaud: I know the number you are actually banned from buying tickets from telecharge.

[30:49] Rob Russo: Well, yeah, I bought too many tickets.

[30:50] Khori Michelle Petinaud: That's what happens. That's actually true. Um, but uh for just a period of time. Um, but I have seen it several times, and it's interesting to feel the audience as a whole react to the piece because it's one of the moments in the show where there isn't a unified response from the audience.

[31:09] Rob Russo: Right.

[31:10] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Everyone loves Richman's fruit.

[31:11] Rob Russo: Yeah.

[31:11] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Not to diminish it. That's actually what's so great about it, right? Is that it is so universal and so beloved, and we all share that bond as an audience. But then you get to America and it's like, well, I don't know. And the different parts of America, you know, like I might be responding joyously to the whole thing with the person next to me sitting there like with their arms like annoying crossed, like, well, screw this. I didn't come for this patriotic thing. But it's not just that.

[31:31] Rob Russo: Yeah.

[31:32] Khori Michelle Petinaud: It's all there's moments of patriotism. There's moments, as you said, of disappointment, of frustration, of satire. It's all layered.

[31:39] Rob Russo: Yes, it really is. And it's, I mean, I think it's one of it's an another genius thing that was so far ahead of his time when he created it, and even all the other elements that we removed from our version. Um, and just to sort of see there's a performance of it that they did at the USSO of all of the numbers, and to watch the audience's reaction, they're like, yay, and like they don't even get like how incredibly genius it is that he's doing these things and getting people to respond to them when they really should probably be offended.

[32:09] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Yeah.

[32:10] Rob Russo: Um, but it's just goes to show like he's just so was so far ahead of his time and he was so smart, and he was we have constantly said that Bob was like a director first, and so he approached everything from an acting perspective, which is why as a dancer, it's so thrilling to be able to do his material because it's so layered, it isn't just a step, you know.

[32:30] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Yeah, well, speaking of genius and being ahead of its time, the one of the last great moments that you have is of course big deal, yeah, which was you know, in danger of being forgotten almost. I know had it not been incorporated into dancing. I'm wondering if you could share with us a little bit about how it feels to step into the shoes of all the great women who've sung this song before and sing Life is just a bowl of cherries.

[32:53] Khori Michelle Petinaud: It is insane. And I have to tell you, the first time that Wayne told me that I was gonna be singing that song, I went home and I cried because I was terrified. I was absolutely terrified. This is coming from the girl who in Aladdin, I had like one line to sing because I was one of the attendants, and I went home and I was so scared. It's like, why are they making me sing a song? Like, I just want to dance, I don't want to have to sing by myself, and I just like I literally all I want to do is dance. And I just was so terrified to have to even sing one line. And so the fact that I was being asked to sort of step into this extremely iconic moment, it's like I can't even really think of anyone who hasn't sung that song that's iconic.

And so I was just like, I can't believe this is happening. I'm terrified. Am I ready to step into a moment like this that feels like the 11 o'clock number of the show? And it was, it's was a constant journey of just feeling like I had to overcome my imposter syndrome about standing on stage and singing a song by myself to get to this point now of feeling like I understand her. I understand Lily for our version of this little snippet of the show. And to really kind of step into a moment of feeling like, no, I can do this, um, has been really exciting. And so many of my friends that have come and seen the show over the past couple of weeks that didn't get to see it in San Diego have been so emotional because they knew like I would call them constantly, be like, I can't believe that I feel like I'm failing at this and I'm I'm crying, and I'm like, this is so hard, and I don't know why they're asking me to do this. Um, for my friends to kind of see that journey of me now being able to do it and feel like really rooted and grounded now at this particular point is just been really awesome.

[34:39] Rob Russo: You must know how it's landing.

[34:42] Khori Michelle Petinaud: I mean, you have ears.

[34:45] Rob Russo: I do have ears. I don't mean to put you on the spot or embarrass you, but for anyone who hasn't seen dancing yet, and if you haven't, go buy tickets now. It's the audience goes insane. And it's it's it's also that song, right? It's the build on that song that is so brilliant. The way it's orchestrated, the way you're lit, you're high in a tower. Again, there's a lot of like height, a lot of height in your track.

[35:11] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Heightened my track. That's a separate episode that we will record when we're finished now. But so it is really like it's a perfect uh storm of wonderful ingredients and the way you sing it.

[35:23] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Thank you so much on top of that. I really appreciate it. And yes, I feel like I feel really lucky. I feel like the way that it was orchestrated and really designed just for me and my voice and what I can do. And it felt really um safe for me to kind of explore what that meant. And so to be able to get to this point and for people to be responding so well to it, it feels really great.

[35:45] Rob Russo: Do you have a favorite moment in the show?

[35:48] Khori Michelle Petinaud: I think my favorite moment is dancing man. Um, I just really love that number. I feel like the sentiment of it and to be able to say those words every night. It just means so much more to me now than it did when I was first introduced to the number because of all of the blood, sweat, and tears that has happened in my dance life up until this point, and to know how um many sacrifices I've had to make and to be able to know that it's worth it. And I feel like that number really just sort of represents everything that dancers feel about how temporary it is, and that it's such a gift to be able to do it in the moment. And we're obviously not trying to be millionaires, like we're just doing it because we love it, you know.

Um, and so I love that. And I also love because it's one of the only moments where everyone in the company is dancing together. We don't have very many of those in the show. So it's really awesome to be able to have that space with every single one of us, like all 16 of us being together and kind of making this rhythm on stage. And it's just it's so special.

[36:50] Rob Russo: How about a favorite step?

[36:51] Khori Michelle Petinaud: I feel like I've changed this like every time someone asks me because it's always different.

[36:55] Rob Russo: Yeah.

[36:56] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Um, the step that we come forward for in the fruit where we do like a little um wrist roll and pelvis bump. I love that. And I love um how powerful it makes me feel.

[37:06] Rob Russo: Okay. Well, we've learned that not only is the choreography, speaking of steps, uh incredibly hard and precise and you know, really fascinating to delve into, but so is the choreography backstage. So I wonder what is your trickiest quick change that you have to do.

[37:21] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Funnily enough, the trickiest one is probably from the coda into bows is probably the quickest one that I have. I believe. Which is so wild to say because there's so many quick changes in the midst of the show, but like that one is actually insane.

[37:37] Rob Russo: Well, you're in a you're in a full suit.

[37:39] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Yeah, full suit, and then I'm going to uh a hair change and then my frug costume. So like the heels and the different accessories and all the things, and it is so fast because I'm in the very last section of the coda.

[37:53] Rob Russo: Yeah.

[37:54] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Um, so I have the least amount of time to get back on stage, and it's crazy. Um, all the other changes, though, I feel like they are very fast. Don't get me wrong, but I think because we had San Diego, it was really helpful for us to sort of know what we needed, and most of our costumes are very similar. And then, you know, we have an incredible team at wardrobe at the music box who's just freaking killing. I don't actually really know how they're doing it because we outnumber them double, basically. I think we have eight dressers backstage, and there's 16 of us, and there are moments where we're all quick changing at the same time. So I just don't even really understand how they do it. But they do.

[38:30] Rob Russo: Well, I think I think we'll talk to a dresser or two, and then we'll find out how they do it. We'll get all their secrets.

[38:35] Khori Michelle Petinaud: I'll send you that episode.

[38:37] Rob Russo: Yeah, I guess to sort of bring us home, tell us what Bob Fossey means to you.

[38:43] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Um he just he means the world, honestly, because being introduced to his material really changed the game for me. I feel like the first time that I walked into the Verden Fosse legacy and I took class, I walked out and I felt like this is the thing I've been missing. Like this is the thing that I want to do. This is the way I want to move. This is and it influenced everything from that moment on, even in my own material, the way I approach other people's material. Um, it just sort of clicked for me. And so I will forever be grateful to um Bob Fossey for the creation of this moment to make me feel like I have fully stepped into who I am as a dancer. And so it just means everything to me to be able to not only just do his work, like even just in a dance class, but to be able to share and reintroduce his work to New York City and to young dancers who there's so many of them who never have gotten able to touch his material or don't even really know who he is, which I think is crazy.

But to be able to be a part of this company that gets to reintroduce or introduce him to a whole new generation of dancers, it means so much because it meant so much to me. And I just hope that it will be able to be that thing for these up and coming dancers that sort of changes the game for them as well.

[40:07] Rob Russo: Well, you used the word icon several times throughout this episode. And now the 16 of you get to be the new vanguard of icons for this the style and this legacy.

[40:18] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Yeah, it's really cool.

[40:19] Rob Russo: Well, thank you for for sharing so much of your time with us and your story and your insight. It's been a real pleasure.

[40:25] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Thank you. It's been a pleasure behind you.

[40:27] Rob Russo: Thank you.

[40:27] Khori Michelle Petinaud: Thank you so much.

[40:33] Rob Russo: A dancing man with footsteps on the set of Bob Fossey's dancing is now on Broadway at the Music Box Theater.

[40:44] Khori Michelle Petinaud: For tickets and more information, visit dancing Bway.com.

[40:48] Rob Russo: Dancing Man, a Fabulous Invalid Podcast, is a production of OM etc. and the Fabulous Invalid LLC, and a proud member of the Broadway Podcast Network. Special thanks to Civilian for hosting us and to our audio engineer, Kyle Moore.

[41:01] Khori Michelle Petinaud: If you liked this episode, we've got over a hundred episodes of the Fabulous Invalid Podcast that you can check out, including a two parter on the life, work, and legacy of Bob Fossey and Gwen Verdon. You can find us online at the Fabulous Invalid.com and on social media at Fabulous Invalid and on iTunes, Spotify, and wherever you get your podcasts.