This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:37] Laura Camien: Welcome to the Spark File, your one stop winter's ball for creative inspiration. I'm Laura Camien.

[0:42] Susan Blackwell: And I'm Susan Blackwell. Well, if you're joining us for the first time, ooh, welcome. You may be asking yourself, what exactly is a spark file? Where do I get one? What do I file in it? These are such good questions, and we do have answers. A spark file is the place where you consistently collect all your inspirations and fascinations.

[1:00] Laura Camien: And if you're anything like us and you're making stuff all the time, you know that sometimes the wellspring of inspiration can run a little dry. We're here to refill it.

[1:10] Susan Blackwell: Yes, we're on the lookout for fresh ideas, images, and inspiration that spark our creativity and pique our curiosity. Things that inspire us to get up off of our asses and make things like this podcast. Or a complex characterization that brings history and heartbreak to life in front of our very eyes. Or an educational program that helps students learn how to make their own art and tell their own stories. Or curriculum that others can continue to explore and learn from in the future. Or a musical performance that makes our booties bounce and turns our eyeballs into cryballs.

[1:43] Laura Camien: On today's MakerSode, we're gonna talk to someone who truly sparks us. And that special someone is Phillipa Soo.

[1:50] Susan Blackwell: Pippa! Welcome to the Spark File.

[1:56] Phillipa Soo: Oh, I love it. Thank you for having me.

[1:59] Susan Blackwell: Real quick the Spark File Price of Admission. You have to tell us a creative risk you've taken recently. It could be something that you did that was, it was not perfect, but it was progress, something that made you a little nervous. What you got for us?

[2:13] Phillipa Soo: Well, um, I was recently asked, this was maybe back in November to do a concert, a benefit concert. And um I was asked to do "I'm Just a Girl" by No Doubt.

[2:28] Laura Camien: Oh, wait, I'm just a... I was... I went Oklahoma.

[2:32] Phillipa Soo: This girl being by No Doubt, Stefani.

[2:35] Laura Camien: Yes.

[2:40] Phillipa Soo: And um Rachel Chafkin was directing this concert, and I was like, Yeah, whatever you want me to sing. Yeah, whatever.

[2:48] Laura Camien: And because you trust Rachel, you've worked with Rachel before.

[2:53] Phillipa Soo: Correct. That's right. Pippa, you're correct. Yes. My first show in New York. So she knows me very well, and I just assumed she'd be like, Yeah, I'll just pick something for you. And she's like, How about this? And I was like, I've never done anything like that. I'm never asked to sing like that or sing in that genre. And I took it by the reins and ran with it. I was so excited. I went, I skipped out onto the stage, and there was a part where like this the song sort of like peaks, and I just screamed. I just like screamed like I was like an actual rock child.

[3:36] Laura Camien: Wait, scream screlted?

[3:37] Phillipa Soo: Skrelted bell notes. Not even like screamed. Screamed like a person screaming.

[3:40] Laura Camien: Yeah, not like impressive like Broadway screlting. Like I was like, just screaming. It felt amazing. And uh yeah, I just thought like I was like terrified about it, and I just thought it was the most freeing thing because I just was like, this screw it. This actually touches, we'll get to it in a moment, but this actually touches to the center of one of the things I love about you. That person that was standing on that stage at that fancy benefit, and everybody's all dressed up with their pearl necklaces on and you're on that stage skipping and screaming. This is one of the things I love about you.

[4:20] Phillipa Soo: Skipping and screaming. There's your autobiography.

[4:23] Laura Camien: Skipping and screaming. Honestly, it's the metaphor for my life.

[4:27] Susan Blackwell: There you go. I think that you are officially admitted into the Spark File. I think that's a good one. We like to make sounds to signify your entry, but we haven't really worked it out.

[4:40] Laura Camien: We're gonna work it out one day. When people walk up to you at like at a party or a function and they don't know you, and they say, Oh, hi, I'm John, I'm an engineer. What would you say?

[4:49] Phillipa Soo: I'm Pippa, and I'm a what?

[4:52] Laura Camien: I'm an actor.

[4:53] Phillipa Soo: You're an actor. That's how you talk about that.

[4:54] Laura Camien: Yeah. Here's a two parter. One, how do you identify creatively?

[5:14] Phillipa Soo: To sort of get started creatively. I don't really have like aha moments, or like there's no, you know, um like special angel inside of me that's just giving me like wonderful ideas.

[5:29] Laura Camien: A muse that's feeding you sparks.

[5:31] Phillipa Soo: No. A healthy regular diet of sparks you get. My sparks come from other people and other things. Meaning pre-existing projects um sure like maybe things I've done before and I sort of like take my experiences on projects and I try and bring those with me. But I think ultimately like I think it's broken down into sort of like three different things. One is experiences whether that's um a museum exhibit that I went to go see about something that inspired me and I really wanted to incorporate that into a character or a book that I read.

[6:12] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[6:13] Phillipa Soo: I think this is you you're in good company. There are a lot of people that they pull so much creative inspiration. Or even experiences being like classes like taking shots like learning things.

[6:23] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[6:24] Phillipa Soo: Not even like creative classes like you know a mystery class or 100 language class. Something totally like different yeah. And then the other part that I find to be very important is um space and I mean that figuratively and literally that literally like having you know a nice wonderful space to work that I make work for me. Yeah I need I need that. I'm not just the type of person who can like kind of like work anywhere. I feel like I like appreciate like a nice space.

[6:49] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[6:59] Phillipa Soo: And then space meaning like taking space away from things in order to feel creative. Cause I feel like I have a tendency to get really excited about things and then try and do too much, and then it sort of gets muddled. And um, you know, I I was mentioning this to you earlier. I started getting into meditation. And what was amazing about that was that I was able to, I'm truly able to like step back and allow myself to have space from my life from my creative, my creative endeavors. Yes. Um, which allows more room for growth, I think. Um then the third part is something that I think is it's it goes without saying when you're a creative person, but ritual, creating ritual.

[7:48] Laura Camien: So, like, you know, everybody, I think most actors would say like they have a way of like how they read their script and how they do all their work. So some people are really into like the post-it notes and the highlighting, and some people are like, you know, they don't want to like touch their script, they want to leave it blank, you know, they all have a process, but like there's a way that you relate to the thing that you're working with, or like um, you know, a painter has a paintbrush and like they they use this very specific paintbrush, and they could buy one that looks exactly like it, but you have ultimately put your energy into it by using it.

[8:24] Phillipa Soo: Like there's a like a life force, yeah. There's a life force in that thing that you've used. So, like that or a script or you know, what a microphone or everything that you're using, like has like um an energy to it that you're putting forth part of yourself into it. And then I think ultimately, as a performer, being a creative person and as a performer, there's a ritual in how you rehearse, how you share it. The fact that there's people who come to sit in the dark to watch you feels very ritualistic to me.

[9:01] Laura Camien: Um, so I feel like I as a creative person enjoy taking in all the aspects of those three things the ritual, the space, and the experiences of my life, be it creative or not.

[9:14] Susan Blackwell: And do you see yourself primarily as a performer or interpretive artist, or also someone who originates work?

[9:24] Phillipa Soo: Yeah, I mean, I've um I've gotten to originate a couple roles, and um doing new work is very exciting for me. I also want to add too, you uh you have originated roles, but I also think of you as an originating artist. I was so excited actually when this when I had this realization with you, um, you knew this about yourself. It's just that I didn't know it. When you um created curriculum, we'll talk about this more, but when you created curriculum for the work that you were doing with Graham Wyndham, and I was like, oh, Pippa's a maker. You're not just an interpretive artist that steps into other people's um work that they have created and interprets it, you're also a whole kind of a whole cloth creative artist.

[10:15] Laura Camien: Yes, I would I would agree with that.

[10:16] Phillipa Soo: Yeah. I thought that was super exciting.

[10:18] Laura Camien: That's great. And part two of this question for our listeners, what are the things that you think you are most well known for?

[10:25] Phillipa Soo: Well, there's this really little not in well-known show at all called Hamilton. I think that's that's maybe probably the biggest.

[10:34] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[10:37] Phillipa Soo: Um, but I think um, I think in general, like not just like, you know, what what did I see you in terms, but um I think I have a reputation for being in rooms of new works, getting to um work on things that have never been spoken before. I've done countless readings and I think it lends itself to the fact that I just love those rooms. Like I love rehearsal. Some people hate rehearsal, but I love rehearsal.

[11:12] Laura Camien: Rehearsal's the best.

[11:13] Phillipa Soo: And the best. I think rehearsal of a uh uh project that is an absolutely brand new project, that's the best of the best. Especially like when your voice is valued and can be, you know, heard and incorporated. Yeah, you know, then you feel like you're genuinely making a contribution to what that thing becomes.

[11:33] Laura Camien: Totally.

[11:34] Phillipa Soo: And to have, you know, to be working on I've worked on Shakespeare and I've worked on new plays where the playwright is there in the room, and really like nothing beats like having a writer right there with you. For so many years I've said I either want to be the person making the thing or I want to be sitting next to the person making the thing.

[11:50] Laura Camien: Yes.

[11:51] Phillipa Soo: I'll take either of those positions.

[11:53] Laura Camien: Totally. Yeah, yeah. I'm I'm with you on that.

[11:54] Susan Blackwell: So speaking of Hamilton, we recently learned that the original cast of Hamilton will be featured in the film of Hamilton that will be released at some point in the future. How fucking stoked are you to star in a movie that you've already completed principal filming on?

[12:05] Phillipa Soo: Pippa Soo. Done. Thank you, past Past Pippa. Um, I know I should really thank my past self. Should really give her a pat on the back. Um, it feels amazing. I mean, I actually was very surprised that it was coming out as soon as now.

[12:27] Laura Camien: I was too, actually.

[12:28] Phillipa Soo: I was thinking they would just like I was like imagining myself, like maybe I had like three children in my arms and a dog, and I don't live in New York anymore. I live somewhere else, and they're like, the movie's coming out. I'd be like, oh my god, my event. Yeah, my skin was so smooth. But you know, I'm like I'm really excited. I'm excited for people to see it. It's next year, right? Isn't it October 2021?

[12:54] Laura Camien: 2021, yeah.

[12:55] Phillipa Soo: What an amazing legacy to have those performances captured on film. I I don't know. We're super excited to get to see it again. It's gonna be beautiful. And I, you know, how we shot it was very unique to how they usually shoot.

[13:11] Laura Camien: Um how'd you shoot it?

[13:13] Phillipa Soo: Well, we just had a we had a like a bunch of different camera positions.

[13:16] Phillipa Soo: We did it over a couple of days in front of a live audience, and some days without an audience. They did special calls, called you in, some of you. Well, you did like were those like close-ups um or cameras on the stage with you? Like, did they did they study cams and stuff? Yeah, like a bunch of yeah, a bunch of stuff, a variety of things. Things you can't do when another. Things like sort of like, let's take advantage of the fact that we're all here. What do we want to do? Amazing. Yeah. And Tommy Kale was directing all of that. Um, I you know, I haven't seen anything. Um, but Tommy seems very pleased. And was there a jib? Was there like a sweeping camera shot across the theater? Well, you'll just have to read and see.

But for people who don't are are not are not in the entertainment industry, there's something called a steady cam where a camera operator has a rig attached to their body, and it's it they almost become you might see a steady cam operator sometimes if you will like to watch award shows every once in a while or if you like to watch live singing competitions you'll see a steady cam operator who just makes it out of the shot they're usually like running backwards with a giant piece of camera rigging attached to them. Did you have some of that action happening? Some of that action um but it was very like you know it was very organized. It was like oh they had a list of things that they wanted to share and a list of things that we had already gotten you know in the performances um but I'm I'm really excited because I like I feel like some of the film will feel very fresh to me because when I'm on stage and I'm watching everything like I have a great view but I'm like watching from behind.

And I've seen the show from the front as well and uh I think that there's just like little like what's the word like very specific textures that um like nuance nuance that but it just exists in the fabric of the show with that particular group of people that I mean it's like why theater is amazing like you can't see it anywhere else.

[15:26] Susan Blackwell: That's right. But I love that it's gonna be captured.

[15:28] Phillipa Soo: But they caught it and I love that because of the nature of close ups and things like that some of those things that that group of people that cast might only have been aware of unless you had seats in the front row others are going to get to experience that I just love the idea that that has been captured in perpetuity and that your performance and those other great performances are going to live on.

[15:54] Laura Camien: Yeah. That's I I wonder. I feel like I know the answer to this, but I wonder if then after this is released, will there be a day where a film version of Hamilton screenplay gets I put $20 on yes.

[16:11] Phillipa Soo: I think yes.

[16:11] Laura Camien: I think yes too, right?

[16:13] Phillipa Soo: Yeah. I'm sure that there's many people who I'll just say the word hairspray to you and then I'll say yes for Hamilton.

[16:20] Laura Camien: Or like in mind.

[16:21] Phillipa Soo: I mean, yeah, you know, it's it's gonna be great.

[16:23] Laura Camien: Yeah, yeah. But I love that this is happening first.

[16:27] Phillipa Soo: Yeah.

[16:27] Laura Camien: Oh, we're really excited. Hamilton talk.

[16:30] Phillipa Soo: This has been Hamilton talking about Hamilton talk.

[16:32] Laura Camien: That was a Hamilton. All right. In an interview with Playbill, you supposedly said allegedly, I want to know how people do their job so I can do my job better, and maybe one day do another job that's not being an actor, maybe produce, maybe write.

[16:49] Phillipa Soo: We're all storytellers here. Why not take a leap?

[16:53] Laura Camien: Oh, yeah. You remember saying that you're totally here for this. If you actually said it, we're so here for this.

[16:59] Phillipa Soo: I feel like I probably said that do you have anything specific in mind? Little makeup, little dreams, little buds of seeds. Any little dreams, little dreamer?

[17:09] Phillipa Soo: Yeah, I think I'm just gonna say it.

[17:12] Laura Camien: Oh my god, something good's about to pop out of your face.

[17:15] Phillipa Soo: I think I'd like to direct.

[17:17] Laura Camien: Oh yes.

[17:19] Phillipa Soo: Um I think what that quote was in reference to was like working on film versus like TV and film versus theater, and like do you prefer one?

[17:33] Laura Camien: I I just feel like I've gotten those questions a lot.

[17:37] Phillipa Soo: And to me, um, it's because you do so much in both you do film, you do TV and you do theater. I'm fortunate enough that I get to do all of those things. But most recently I've gotten to have more experience in film and TV, which I didn't have before. And what I learned was being on set, like seeing how everybody is doing their job and how it all works. It was just another reminder that we're all trying to, we're coming together with skill sets to achieve a very particular thing, which is to tell this story.

[18:13] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[18:14] Phillipa Soo: And the stakes are very high. And at the same time, like we're just telling a story. Like it's really not an accurate cancer. We're not doing surgery for just telling stories. We're just telling some stories.

[18:26] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[18:26] Phillipa Soo: But it there is a weight to it. And I think um, I think the way that I do my job better is by learning how other people are doing their jobs so that I can ultimately do my job better. So, like a small example would be when you're in a play, you have um a dresser or uh a uh someone who's on the costume team who helps you get into costume, who sets out your clean clothes every day, comes in early, and also stays late to take all the dirty clothes and then wash it and press and dry until they can dry until the next day.

[19:05] Laura Camien: And so um, you know, it's a very long hard schedule for everybody who's working backstage because the actors actually spend the least amount of time in the theater. We show up half an hour before the same.

[19:18] Phillipa Soo: Same on set.

[19:19] Laura Camien: Right, same on set.

[19:21] Phillipa Soo: So, like when I understand how other people's jobs work, I can know, you know, what can I ask for that I need that's within the realm of possibility that would be helpful to me and I can ask it in a way that would be helpful to them. Because we're all just trying to like figure this out. We're all just trying to make a thing.

[19:43] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[19:43] Phillipa Soo: And we're not doing brain surgery. So like let's just like let's ask questions. Let's let's ask for what we need. And if we can't get it, like let's understand why.

[19:52] Laura Camien: So to extend that example, would you would it be useful for you, Pippa Soo, to have a conversation with a dresser, to shadow a dresser, to understand what their job is so that you know what's in the realm of appropriateness and how you can work well together?

[20:08] Phillipa Soo: I would say so.

[20:09] Phillipa Soo: And I I mean, yeah, you could have a conversation. Um, but also I think it's just my observation, just from what I see.

[20:16] Laura Camien: Like smart observation.

[20:18] Phillipa Soo: Yeah, I think that a lot of people um you can get very much caught up in like, oh my gosh, what am I supposed to be doing? And uh sometimes that can sort of like cut you off from understanding like how hard this um, you know, the stage manager is working or this PA is working on set, you know, like they're running around like crazy, trying to make sure that like you can get where you need to go.

[20:43] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[20:44] Phillipa Soo: And the moment that you can sort of just like see that and realize that, you can like go from there. If you have a real question, like, you know, something is wrong with my costume and it hasn't gotten fixed, like, why hasn't it gotten fixed? Like, I understand maybe I didn't tell you, or maybe there's something that happened where like you couldn't fix it because something else happened, but like let's talk it out.

[21:06] Laura Camien: Like, let's figure it out.

[21:08] Phillipa Soo: I have talked to actors who like spoke about the revelation that they have when they realize, like, oh, I am actually not the center of the universe. And there are people in this room whose work will either make or break my work.

[21:22] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[21:23] Phillipa Soo: Because, you know, it's really I could get up and give a great performance, but if the lighting is bad or the sound is bad or the editing is bad, uh, I'm not gonna be looking so good. And so they had that revelation of like, oh yeah, this is a this is a real team effort.

[21:40] Laura Camien: Yeah, and there's a there's like a an art to being able to know when to be extremely confident and when to sort of like take charge and really ask for what you need.

[21:50] Phillipa Soo: And then there's the moment where you have to decide like when am I gonna hang back and just sort of observe and let this wash over me.

[21:58] Laura Camien: And that's a very hard thing to do because it's such a crazy business because you're asked to be very humble and just grateful to be there and at the same time like be very confident and find your ego.

[22:11] Phillipa Soo: That's a really good point.

[22:12] Laura Camien: Yeah, you know.

[22:13] Phillipa Soo: So I want to jump back to I might be interested in a bit of directing.

[22:18] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[22:18] Phillipa Soo: Can we talk about that?

[22:20] Laura Camien: Yeah, I just I I think film, television, what are we talking about here?

[22:25] Phillipa Soo: I think it could be either of any of those things.

[22:27] Laura Camien: All of it, all of it, maybe.

[22:29] Phillipa Soo: Um I'm just so uh I just love watching people work. I feel like there's a certain level of particular guidance strategies that I would be very good at because um I get people and I read people very well, and at the same time, I don't feel afraid to ask people for more in terms of not like give me more, but like asking people to raise their standards like a yeah, yeah, sh yeah, show me the goods.

[23:03] Laura Camien: And there's a way to inspire people.

[23:05] Phillipa Soo: You're gonna be great working with children.

[23:07] Laura Camien: Yeah, right.

[23:08] Phillipa Soo: Yeah, you know, but yes, you're right, to inspire people, um to ask questions and ultimately just to like take a step back from being in it and sort of getting to like look from the outside. I feel like I always kind of look at it from the outside anyway.

[23:23] Phillipa Soo: And my challenge as an artist is always to sort of like let go of the homework, yeah, quote unquote homework. That is the magic trick. Let go of the homework and just sort of like let it fly.

[23:35] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[23:35] Phillipa Soo: Um like I mentioned earlier, like some people like really like to put post-it notes in their script. I found that that's a terrible thing for me to do because then all I think about is like that post-it note and like how I'm supposed to do that and how it should be.

[23:47] Laura Camien: Like good student.

[23:48] Phillipa Soo: Yeah, what was that note on page four?

[23:50] Laura Camien: Yeah, yeah, like good student, good student.

[23:52] Phillipa Soo: Like my highlighter ran out of ink, and I couldn't, you know what I mean? Like, I just like I just feel like that does not help me because I that's where I go to very easily.

[23:59] Laura Camien: Yes.

[23:59] Phillipa Soo: And so where you need to like just gently turn your attention is to letting go and letting grip.

[24:05] Laura Camien: Yes, interesting.

[24:06] Phillipa Soo: So interesting.

[24:07] Laura Camien: Just like in I'm just a girl.

[24:09] Phillipa Soo: We're gonna get we're gonna get back to it because I feel like that's something I've learned from you. I'm curious to know like, are you actively thinking about it and and putting feelers out?

[24:20] Phillipa Soo: I have nothing gently. I'm just like, I know that that lives in me, and I know that some day and sometime that will happen. Um, but it's not there's no like particular thing that I'm focusing on or working on right now.

[24:34] Laura Camien: But it's so great to know that you are a maker and you're also a teacher. Can you tell us a little bit about the work that you did with Graham Wyndham?

[24:43] Phillipa Soo: Myself and my castmate Morgan Marcel, who um is one of the wonderful ensemble dancers in the show. She and I created this um program called the Eliza Project.

[24:59] Laura Camien: So this is when you all were when we were doing Hamilton.

[25:02] Phillipa Soo: Yeah.

[25:02] Laura Camien: Which was really just birthed from the idea came from going to Graham Wyndham because I, you know playing Eliza was very eye-opening into how much history exists about most women in general.

[25:20] Phillipa Soo: Because there was not a lot out there. And um, you know, I I read the Hamilton book, and of course, there's like letters, and that's very thorough. I like talked to Ron Chernow, but even he was like that's what's so mysterious about her is that she literally she burned those letters and we don't know very much of he she wanted herself to be removed enough so that she could really shine the light on Hamilton.

[25:47] Laura Camien: Like what we know about him today is mostly because of her efforts put towards creating his legacy.

[25:54] Phillipa Soo: Um and you know, going through his papers and the you know, making sure that everything that he did and worked toward was brought to light and given attention. And yet, are you saying like she also was very conscious of wanting to remove herself from that legacy as much as possible?

[26:13] Phillipa Soo: I mean, I think it's you can see it in her gravesite. Like you go if you go downtown.

[26:19] Laura Camien: Oh, oh there's an alarm going off.

[26:22] Phillipa Soo: Do you know what it means?

[26:24] Laura Camien: I think it just means it's a test.

[26:25] Phillipa Soo: It's a super cute alarm, whatever it is.

[26:28] Phillipa Soo: There's cute robots loose inside your house. Cute robots are attacking us. Um anyway, so you can see it when you go down to Trinity Church where Alexander Hamilton is buried. His marker is just extravagant. And hers just says Eliza. And she made sure that the world knew who he was, and for herself, like that's what she wanted, you know. Wow. Or that's what seems the most appropriate to give her. You know what I mean? Like that just told me everything. So I was like, okay, well, let's see what you know. Lynn was like, yeah, this orphanage, the orphanage still exists. It's called Graham Windham. It's like, well, I gotta go. I gotta go visit. So my husband Steve and I went and got to meet some of the young people.

Very bright, wonderful people who are up in Hastings on Hudson in this wonderful campus. And we were just so amazed at the community there and the leadership there. And I was like, I don't think this is it. Like I'm not just interested in coming and visiting and then being like, bye. So I just want to flag this moment. This is it may have come from an external spark source, but a little spark rose up inside of you, a little creative spark, and that was I don't think I just want to come for one visit. I think there's something more I want to make here.

[28:02] Phillipa Soo: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I had had experience in college working with students and working with young people who wouldn't necessarily have an artistic outlet to the extent of like what we were exposed to in an art school. And so I was like, let's like try and gather some of these young folks and see if we can come up with like some fun thing for us all to do, which would involve like maybe taking classes, like because, you know, I feel like when you're young and you're hungry and you just want to know things about the world, like you want somebody to like tell you. And at the same time, you want the autonomy to sort of like do it in your own way. So I was like, well, great, like let's like teach some classes, have a structure to it.

Like you'll do like someone will do like a singing class, someone might do like an improv class. And then I was like, then let's have like a creative hour where we just sort of like have them create their own work. Um and it was really fun. And I think like maybe the most rewarding part of anything in that experience was like honestly getting to make a connection with that community, with those young people, and to be able to like do something that I would have never done if I hadn't been in that show.

[29:27] Laura Camien: I love this is where when you were filling out your survey before this podcast recording, we were taking you through Maida Wagner's five creative types. What is the one that drives your creativity? And after some thought, you were like, I think I'm a little bit of a combo platter, but I'm feeling this activist piece. And I think that is what got that little spark lit and floating for you.

[29:48] Phillipa Soo: Yeah. Was that I think there's more work to be done here. And it's amazing to hear you say that out of a very rigorous, extraordinary life experience that you had with Hamilton, that's one of the major highlights for you. Was that where you made the thing?

[30:09] Phillipa Soo: Yeah. I made the thing. I made the thing, but I have to give due diligence to the things that brought it to me. You know, of course. Of course, you have that platform, and then you're like the activist part of you is like, what am I gonna do with all of this energy and attention and visibility that's coming along with this? I don't want to, you know, if you were a different kind of artist, you might just be like, I'm gonna just soak in all the applause. But you're the kind of artist who's like, I want to make something that's of service to other people. I want to make something that makes this world a better place. Like meaningful.

[30:45] Laura Camien: Yeah, that's meaningful. And honors the legacy.

[30:47] Phillipa Soo: Yeah. I just honestly, I was like, I just want to connect with this community because we have something in common.

[30:54] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[30:54] Phillipa Soo: Like, and not even just something, but like a huge thing in common. It's like not a small thing. I wonder how many of them were aware of Eliza's legacy, Hamilton's legacy. Like it seems like, you know, after a time, people forget like the origins of the building they're in.

[31:12] Laura Camien: How much awareness did they have of that connection?

[31:15] Phillipa Soo: I definitely feel like the show gave Graham Windham a rebirth in, you know, people's awareness of it. Um the students that are there, I think were very excited to see the show and hear the songs and hear the orphanage. And they were like, That's us.

[31:37] Laura Camien: Can we talk about that?

[31:41] Phillipa Soo: I mean, it's a campus crying. I know it's not a sparkfile podcast. I do have to just clarify that it's no longer an orphanage. It's a social service program that works with foster kids and foster families.

[31:52] Laura Camien: Okay.

[31:53] Phillipa Soo: So, but still, that being said, they were they could recognize that was their piece of the story.

[31:59] Laura Camien: Exactly.

[31:59] Phillipa Soo: Their piece of that just a piece of their piece of that legacy.

[32:03] Laura Camien: Yeah. I've asked you this before off mic, and you answered me, and I was so pleased to know it. And you can tell me to fuck off if you don't want to answer it on mic.

[32:12] Phillipa Soo: Okay.

[32:12] Laura Camien: But all the ladies are crying. I just want everybody to know, not me, because I'm tough. Um there's an amazing moment at the conclusion of Hamilton where the character of Eliza, which was played by you. I don't know if you know that. There’s this moment where it's almost like there's this aha moment or this like spark moment that Eliza has in this moment. Do you know what I'm talking about? Like around at the very end. What was going through your mind in that moment, or as a performer, or what was the direction you were given?

[32:51] Phillipa Soo: It was a combo platter, like it always is. Ultimately, it came from this idea that you know the telescope of the show at that moment is sort of like moving out and out and out and out. So we've got, you know, Hamilton's story, and then we sort of like push out, and we've got the actors in the play telling the story. So everybody's got their sort of white neutral costume on, and um, we're pushing out even further to say, yes, like we are telling this story. We're these actors telling the story, but then they reintroduce Eliza, and then time sort of pushes forward very fast in that moment. And so I was like, well, the shape around me is just expanding out. It's expanding outward, like energetically.

Like we're going from the story to the stage to these actors telling the story. And so, like this sort of um aha moment at the end, which is just an inhale. Just an inhale. Like technically speaking, all I did was I just look up to the very tippy top back of the audience, and I inhaled and then lights out before my exhale. So the last thing you see is Eliza taking this breath, but there's no exhale. Some nights, it was different every night. Like why I did that. Like technically it was the same, but like from an acting standpoint, the sort of um intention is changing every night. So some nights I would look up and I would imagine seeing Alexander like up there. And sometimes I would look up and I would see you know, everything that we've done, like like a like a like a life flashing before your eyes, if you will, moment.

[34:38] Laura Camien: Yes.

[34:38] Phillipa Soo: And some nights I literally just looked out into the audience, and this was what it was most times. I would literally just look out into the audience. I could see the light of the stage reflected on the faces of everybody out there. And I just like looked at people in the eye and made my way all the way up to the top. And my inhale was like an actual inhale of awe at the fact that we all made it here.

[35:03] Laura Camien: Now we're all crying.

[35:04] Phillipa Soo: Now, yeah.

[35:05] Phillipa Soo: I always found that to be an extra I've seen that show so many times. And I'm lucky to have seen it so many times. It is a privilege. I've seen it so many times. I mean it's a privilege that I've gotten to see and like sort of study it a little bit. And that moment was just always so extraordinary. And I just love that you're willing to talk about as an actor as an audience member. I just love that you're willing to talk about that. That is from the outside, what it felt like to me, just me, is I'm getting very emotional right now. Is um the character that you've been playing all night, all of a sudden, like it's almost like a magic wall goes up, and all of a sudden you're in the present and you're beholding the uh legacy in the faces of these, you know, 1,000 audience members or whatever.

[35:56] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[35:56] Phillipa Soo: And that you did it, that Eliza like mission accomplished is what it felt like. You did it.

[36:03] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[36:04] Phillipa Soo: It just felt like it was getting so emotional. We're all crying right now. God I think like maybe what gets me the most is that her life was so hard. I mean, everybody's lives back then, everybody's lives now. Like life life is hard.

[36:21] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[36:21] Phillipa Soo: Let me tell you life is hard. It's beautiful and wonderful, but but her journey was quite difficult.

[36:32] Laura Camien: Yeah.

[36:32] Phillipa Soo: Yeah. And sometimes, like just technically speaking, you have to find moments of release for yourself if you can, whether it's on stage or off stage, so that you can sort of like process the journey that you're going on because your body doesn't your brain knows that it's not real, but your body doesn't know the difference.

[36:55] Laura Camien: That's true.

[36:56] Phillipa Soo: Yeah. So, you know, like this horrifying tragedy of her losing her son every night is like it wears on you for the sheer fact that like you're just exerting your body and your adrenaline is like rushing in a way that um is not not natural.

[37:13] Laura Camien: Well, it's commensurate with somebody who's losing a son every night.

[37:16] Phillipa Soo: Yes, even though your brain knows that's not what's happening. Right. You're kind of put as an actor, you are using yourself as a vessel, you're putting yourself through these experiences willingly. You're putting yourself, subjecting yourself to these experiences eight shows a week.

[37:29] Laura Camien: Yes.

[37:29] Phillipa Soo: Yeah. And um, and the imagination is strong, like placebos work.

[37:34] Laura Camien: Yeah, that's so that's right.

[37:35] Phillipa Soo: The imagination is very strong. And so um I found that also that last moment was just a necessary for me for Eliza, like it just felt like it was needed, yeah, as well.

[37:50] Laura Camien: Can I tell you the dumbest fucking thing? Even though I have had the privilege of seeing Hamilton so many times in so many different iterations, and I was at home cleaning my bathroom, listening to the original cast recording of Hamilton as I was cleaning my bathroom. I'm miming like I'm scrubbing the bathroom floor. Never in all my viewings had I put together that he had been an orphan and you created an orphanage until that one millionth listening to the music, and I was like, Oh my god, and I burst into tears in my fucking bathroom because I am an idiot. Like this is why I can't be a dramaturg or a director. It took me so long to be like, oh, he was an orphan, and she completed a loop and created a legacy by creating an orphanage.

[38:40] Phillipa Soo: I'm proud of you.

[38:41] Laura Camien: Rubber gloves. That's what just breaking down on the Sunday afternoon.

[38:45] Phillipa Soo: That's what I mean. Eventually she gets there. Your most sparky spark file moments happen in your least sparky days.

[38:54] Laura Camien: Most times.

[38:54] Phillipa Soo: That's right. Yes. God damn. So what's the moral of the story?

[38:58] Laura Camien: I'm a ding dong.

[38:59] Phillipa Soo: Canyon, you were saying.

[39:01] Laura Camien: When I bump into something that inspires me, I dump it in the spark files.

[39:10] Phillipa Soo: Sparkle. Could be something that I wanna make or how I wanna be.

[39:16] Laura Camien: I pump it in the spark files.

[39:19] Phillipa Soo: Spark.

[39:21] Laura Camien: I jump into my sparkfiles.

[39:24] Phillipa Soo: Sparkflies.

[39:25] Laura Camien: Let's open up the sparkfire.

[39:30] Phillipa Soo: That was part one of our interview with Phillipa Soo. Part two will be available next week, unless it's the future. Then it's available now, robots. Go on, give it a listen. Find out what's sparking Pippa these days.