This transcript was automatically generated and might contain errors.

[0:00] Susan Blackwell: Hey, this is part two of our interview with Phillipa Soo. You might want to go back and give part one a listen or not. However, you're doing it, you're doing it right. Enjoy the show.

[0:07] Susan Blackwell: The Spark File podcast may contain profanity and other adult content. Please use your discretion.

[0:18] Phillipa Soo: When I bumped into something that inspires me, I jump in my sparks. Spark has to be something that I wanna make or how I wanna be. I pump it in my sparks. I jump into my sparks. Let's open up the sparks.

[0:46] Susan Blackwell: One of the things, and there were many, obviously, that I found to be fascinating was how a show was written about a very imperfect man in regard to like this is a man who loved his wife but was also sleeping with her sister. And the show manages to be like, yeah, that was an element, but nonetheless, there's so many there's a bigger story to be told here. But I loved that this that it didn't try to deny that. But I just wondered in your research, in your learning about her life, what was that like? And was there more information there? Like, because that to me seems like another very difficult thing to live with or live through.

[1:40] Phillipa Soo: Yeah, well, I think, you know, the Reynolds pamphlet, The Adulterous Affair, that is like, I think definitely proven to be true. I think the Angelica potential relationship with Angelica is sort of like in question, although there are many letters between them that are sort of implying that there might have been something more there, or if there's not something there, like there's a wanting or a longing or something. And I think Lynn addresses it very well.

[2:10] Phillipa Soo: Yeah, um, because he's just so gosh darn wonderful. His writing is so great. He's wicked smart. And so the work was done for us in that way because the writing was so good, because you've got, I think satisfied is like the most wonderful sort of like reasoning. I mean, this is why Lynn is so genius, like because you take an idea like that, like how would someone be okay with that? How do we and you put it into a song? Like this woman who saw him from afar and realized that it would never work between them. And not only that, she saw that her sister was head over heels for him and decided to step aside. Yeah, even though she had unpacking a split second over the course of a song.

[3:00] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, yes, yes, yes, exactly. So the brilliance of Manuel.

[3:03] Phillipa Soo: Yeah, but I think for me, the work that I was doing, and this is like stuff in rehearsal we talk about, but like, so she's just gonna burn these letters. She's just gonna bring some letter race. She's not gonna like but that's that that said less about her and more about me, which is like, oh yeah, like people couldn't just leave their spouses. It was an arrangement. My understanding is in that time, if she would have left, he the children are his, the property is his, exactly you are left with nothing.

[3:34] Susan Blackwell: Exactly.

[3:35] Phillipa Soo: Yeah. So let alone whatever love and connection, even though he's an imperfect person. You know, yes, it became about understanding like her autonomy within the realm of the world that she was living in, which is not very friendly towards women.

[3:56] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[3:57] Phillipa Soo: Um for a contemporary mind to sort of work yourself, and this is true when you do things that are sometimes it's true of things that are set in different time periods, but it's true of things that are set now when somebody when a character has a different sort of lived experience than you.

[4:20] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[4:21] Phillipa Soo: Yeah, exactly. I understood that Eliza understood that her job in this world and her children and her family and the legacy was much more important than having justice for her feelings, you know what I mean? For having revenge or whatever.

[4:54] Phillipa Soo: And when the turn, when we take the turn, and she's like, we're beyond an affair. We have a bigger pain, and now we have a bigger story. Right. You know, we have bigger things to feel and to do with our lives. I don't know, it fascinates me. I was left fascinated with all of the women's stories, of course, because you just like my God, every single man that we learned about in history, there's a fascinating woman that we have not learned about or more.

[5:23] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[5:23] Phillipa Soo: And uh yeah, that just it left me with like, oh, there's so many stories to tell. So many stories. I'm gonna tell we're gonna step off of if you're just like a hardcore Hamilton fanatic, you can you can go ahead and pause now. But um, I want to share something that I've learned from from you, Pipsters in observing you is really about staying loose and having fun.

[5:47] Susan Blackwell: So it's so interesting for me to hear that that you're like this very studious good student, and you can live in that gear. And the magic trick for you is to really make sure that you like cut loose and fly free in your performances and have fun. I think you're succeeding in my observation of your ass.

[6:08] Phillipa Soo: We did this reading of a musical called Kiss Me Kate. Kiss Me Kate is a musicalization of Taming of the Shrew. And we it was so fun. It was crazy fun. We did it at the public theater. Lee Silverman directed it. There was a lot of, you know, I was playing one of the gangsters. There was a lot of like non-traditional casting going on in that.

[6:26] Susan Blackwell: I don't think that's non-traditional.

[6:28] Phillipa Soo: For me to play one of the gangs, I am a gangster.

[6:31] Susan Blackwell: You're a gangster.

[6:32] Phillipa Soo: Um during this reading that we did in front of a big old invited audience, you're out in front. Do you remember this? You're out in front, you're singing something. It's a moment where all eyes are sort of focused squarely on you, and you kind of lost the melody.

[6:48] Susan Blackwell: We'd only spent a week rehearsing it.

[6:49] Phillipa Soo: You've kind of lost the melody. And you were just like in this very free, easy way. You were sort of in front of an audience. You were sort of like, what is it again? It was so light, it was so full of laughter. You were giving no fucks. And it's the kind of moment that I can say honestly, because of my sometimes performance anxiety historically, my uh adrenaline and cortisol issues, it might have burned a hole in my brain for days. But you were just so easy and so breezy about your imperfection in this moment. And you just kept on going it. Do you even remember it?

[7:25] Phillipa Soo: I don't. I think it's because there was I think it's because there was no adrenaline or cortisol.

[7:30] Susan Blackwell: You were just like who is it again? And the musical director, I think that was Vadim, was like, he was like, This is the melody, whatever it was, and you picked right back up and you kept going. And I was like, that's how you do it. That's how you are free and easy. And does that give you a feeling when I describe that to you?

[7:48] Phillipa Soo: It gives me yes, it gives me feeling lots of feelings. No, I I'm I'm charmed because here's the thing about that. I don't remember that, but the way that it happened sounds about right. But me 10 years ago.

[8:07] Phillipa Soo: Yes, would remember that moment. Have perseverated. Have yes, have had anxiety about it. Yep. We'll never forget it. And also in the moment, would have probably like had like a hot flash and gone beat red, and then like had like diarrhea after that. Adrenaline, cortisol, all of it.

[8:27] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[8:28] Phillipa Soo: Yeah. Not to say that that stuff didn't happen. Like there wasn't, there were things probably going on inside of me. But what I've learned is my habits, my tendencies. Like this was like something that just blew my mind open when I was in school. Is that there were things that I had come across that were preventing me from, you know, really expanding artistically, going further, becoming a better artist, becoming a better performer.

[9:01] Phillipa Soo: And one of my teachers said to me, Look, you're not some of these things that we're bringing up, you're always going to have to deal with. They're not gonna go away. You're not gonna check off a box and like finish it and it'll be done.

[9:15] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[9:16] Phillipa Soo: These are the things that are gonna happen for the rest of your life. Such as such as for me, a tendency to have anxiety and freak out about messing up and needing to be perfect.

[9:27] Susan Blackwell: Uh-huh.

[9:28] Phillipa Soo: Right. So the opposite of that would be let it hang loose, right? Find that. So that has to be a choice for me every time. Boy, you are making that choice. And maybe it'll come naturally one day or sometimes, but I can't expect it to just come naturally because I, you know, it's not a muffin recipe, you know.

[9:49] Susan Blackwell: I didn't like check off the box and like do my due diligence and then all of a sudden like I'm free and loose all the time. Like it has to be a conscious decision for me.

[9:58] Phillipa Soo: And even further, I realized being out of school and out in the world, like how that manifests for me is when I have those moments of anxiety or those oops moments, or those sort of like, you know, this is gonna like end my career and my life moments. The amount of time, if I can shorten the amount of time it takes for me to laugh about it later, then I've accomplished it.

[10:26] Susan Blackwell: It could take a couple days, it could take like a month, but if I'm sort of working towards like shortening how long it takes for me to just laugh at myself, yes, yeah, about those moments, then great.

[10:39] Susan Blackwell: So what I was observing, and the reason why you don't remember it is because it wasn't traumatizing to you.

[10:44] Phillipa Soo: I wouldn't know.

[10:46] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[10:46] Phillipa Soo: But what I was observing is you have in that moment, however you got there, whatever like grace you had granted yourself before we started that reading, you had really shortened the it was a millisecond.

[11:02] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[11:02] Phillipa Soo: Before you were like, I don't know what the melody is. Like you just like got right there really totally.

[11:09] Susan Blackwell: And it was so to use your word, it was super charming. And I actually carry it with me. I think about it more than I'd care to admit when I am like, okay, in a moment, in a millisecond, if I fuck up, if I trip over my words, if I don't know what the melody is, like if I can't access what the word is that I'm trying to use, how are you gonna play it, Susan?

[11:34] Phillipa Soo: Like, and it I really carried that watching you do that in my heart, and I was like, what would Pippa do?

[11:40] Phillipa Soo: Pippa would be like, what is it again? And then just the audience would laugh and you would just go on.

[11:47] Susan Blackwell: You just go on.

[11:49] Phillipa Soo: I love that.

[11:50] Phillipa Soo: I'm so glad that you like that. Like, I'm glad I could be observed. Listen, if if it can do something for someone at some point, my sort of like oops moments.

[12:00] Susan Blackwell: You've done it.

[12:00] Phillipa Soo: This reminds me of a topic we're slightly obsessed with on this podcast, and that topic is failure and how we process our perceived failure. Do you have a particular thing that you felt you failed at?

[12:16] Phillipa Soo: Um, and could you talk us through how you processed it?

[12:19] Phillipa Soo: Yeah. There's the kind of failure that happens when you're working on something as an actor and you feel like oof, that didn't like quite happen. That didn't land at that moment, or like, you know, like, oh, I couldn't quite get there. Like the emotion wasn't there.

[12:33] Phillipa Soo: Uh and um that's just informative to me.

[12:39] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, that's interesting.

[12:41] Phillipa Soo: It's information.

[12:41] Phillipa Soo: Yeah. Like I try and take it as not um uh like you know, a measure of my worth, and more just information about what's happening. Either, you know, like if I'm doing a really emotional scene and for some reason it doesn't get there, I think, oh, I don't really actually know what my given circumstances are.

[13:03] Phillipa Soo: Or I'm really sick today and I have a cold, and like that's why I'm not really all here, or like I'm really nervous about um an audition that I have, and so I'm really not my head's not here or whatever. It's just information.

[13:17] Phillipa Soo: Then there's the type of failure that is sort of like the outward, the like what the world perceives as failure, and how I feel like I've maybe let other people down, not letting myself down, but like letting the world down in some way.

[13:32] Phillipa Soo: And that would be like being in a show that maybe closes much earlier than we think about them to. I did this beautiful play called Amelie the Musical, and it was the most wonderful experience, and we had a really good time making it.

[13:49] Phillipa Soo: And for one reason or another, or many reasons, it just didn't last. Like we ran for about five weeks on Broadway. And it's just so silly because, like, yes, like it's called uh is it technically a failure? Like, I don't know, like who came up with that term. Was it a success? I mean, if you told me I was doing a five-week run of Amelie on Broadway, I'd be like, yeah, yes, yes, like limited run, limited engagement. Like it was a great five weeks. Yes, but that's my perception of it.

[14:22] Phillipa Soo: Yeah. And so I think like with the sort of like critic outward world, what do people see me as success or failure stuff is like completely unhealthy? Yeah. That like it's a success to be able to go to Broadway in the first place. Yes, like the odds of to make it making it there are so small anyway. So, like you have to take into account like all the things that you do to get to a place, and then you'll come to see that like the sort of failure, whatever it is, is so much smaller than anything it did to take you to get there.

[14:58] Susan Blackwell: How was it for you like when I mean we've made Broadway shows that have received, shall we say, earlier than expected closing notices?

[15:09] Phillipa Soo: Yeah. How was it for you to uh receive that information? Something that you had poured so much of your heart and soul into, and something that you were literally at the center of that creative experience. You're you are the key art for that, all the these show posters, you are the center of it. Your name is above the title. Like, yeah, how was it for you to receive that information? And in those days, how did you process it?

[15:37] Phillipa Soo: I didn't process it necessarily like in that moment that you were mentioning in Well, you still are working, you still have a job to do.

[15:45] Susan Blackwell: Exactly.

[15:46] Phillipa Soo: Well, but I I think more that like, you know, that sort of what I was talking about, that moment it takes for you to laugh at yourself. Yes, yes. That took me a while to find.

[15:55] Phillipa Soo: Sure. That one took a little bit longer. But I did, but I did learn about letting yourself have those feelings. Like I was mourning it too. Like I wasn't just like disappointed in myself for being a failure. That was like the smallest part of it. Like I think the biggest part was that I just wasn't gonna be able to continue doing this thing that I planned on doing for a long time and put a lot of energy into and these people that I made it with.

[16:27] Phillipa Soo: I like wasn't gonna hang out with anymore. So like there was a lot at play there. So I actually like did not handle it well. I just was like very depressed, and I felt like I felt like, oh gosh, what am I gonna do? I made a mistake, like something went wrong. It was clearly all my fault. What am I gonna do next?

[16:48] Susan Blackwell: What shifted it for you?

[16:50] Phillipa Soo: Because you're not there now.

[16:52] Phillipa Soo: To be perfectly honest, and I hate saying this because I don't want this, I don't want this to be me. But here we go. But I got another job.

[17:00] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, yes, yeah.

[17:01] Phillipa Soo: And I felt better about myself, and yes, life went on.

[17:05] Susan Blackwell: And life went on.

[17:06] Phillipa Soo: But I was pissed at myself because I was like, look at me. Like, I just got another job. Someone handed me it like a thing, and all of a sudden I feel better about my life. Like, what a sap I am because I just spent two months, well, no, four months being like, Steve, I'm never gonna work again.

[17:27] Susan Blackwell: Oh my god.

[17:28] Phillipa Soo: And then like all of a sudden I'm like, oh, I get to do this other thing.

[17:31] Phillipa Soo: We work in such a crazy business because it is a lot about external opportunities. Uh for many of us, it's about external opportunities and when they arrive and like being available and waiting for them to show up and blah blah blah.

[17:44] Susan Blackwell: But but here we are.

[17:46] Phillipa Soo: So that was your truth for that moment of that was the truth.

[17:46] Phillipa Soo: That was the truth then. And and it will never be this, it won't be like that ever again. Because eventually I found that moment of like, haha, like I'm laughing at myself because I I was in, I was like an insane person. I was like, I was like, oh my god, this is it for me.

[18:04] Phillipa Soo: Like nothing is gonna happen ever again.

[18:06] Susan Blackwell: Did you feel like in a way it was sort of cheating, like to feel better just because you got a job?

[18:11] Phillipa Soo: No, yeah.

[18:11] Phillipa Soo: Yeah, I think that's what I'm like what I was like.

[18:13] Susan Blackwell: You were shortcutting it.

[18:14] Phillipa Soo: Yeah, I was so pissed at myself for it. I was like, I'm better than I can be, I know myself worth. Why did it take somebody like giving me permission to like be okay with having you know a couple months of free time?

[18:28] Susan Blackwell: But to use your words earlier, that's information.

[18:31] Phillipa Soo: Totally.

[18:31] Phillipa Soo: That's information in this ongoing investigation that we're all doing about ourselves and creativity.

[18:37] Susan Blackwell: That's information.

[18:38] Phillipa Soo: And so if you if you do have a feeling that you want it to be different next time, there are ways you can influence that.

[18:45] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, well, to use your words again.

[18:47] Phillipa Soo: We're just throwing all your words back in your own.

[18:49] Susan Blackwell: Oh my god, I love it, I love it.

[18:50] Phillipa Soo: Hard hitting tell me everything I said.

[18:52] Susan Blackwell: This is hard-hitting journalism.

[18:55] Phillipa Soo: Um, you said it won't happen again because you did learn from that experience.

[19:00] Phillipa Soo: And you're determined that next time it's not gonna come from external forces, you feeling better can come.

[19:07] Phillipa Soo: Yeah, I think like before it happens, I can be conscious of it. Even if for some reason I go down that road again, like I think so many of us do in this industry where we're like, here we go again.

[19:21] Phillipa Soo: Like I'm unemployed, and I like can't just enjoy having it, like you know, two months off a little downtime, right? When you know, from the previous two months, like I literally had no time.

[19:32] Phillipa Soo: So, like, I I don't know. I just feel like um just getting better is taking as it comes, as opposed to feeling like I have to prescribe a way to be.

[19:40] Phillipa Soo: But like you said, like next time it happens won't be the first time that it happens.

[19:45] Phillipa Soo: No, I won't, even if it happens in the exact same way, my perception of it will be different.

[19:50] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, you know, I like that.

[19:52] Phillipa Soo: Even if I'm like bummed out and blue for four months because I don't know what's happening next, and then somebody gives me a job and all of a sudden I'm happy.

[20:02] Phillipa Soo: That experience will ultimately be different because I have this perspective in my mind of like it's not the end of the world. I'm blue about it, I want to be working, I grieve it, but also free time.

[20:15] Phillipa Soo: Yeah, the other variable that I know this is the drum that Aunt Auntie Susan and Laura always bang. But the other variable that I just want to add into this mix is I think this also can be shifted by making your own work.

[20:30] Susan Blackwell: Yes, that is another thing that can shift this.

[20:33] Phillipa Soo: Is if you are somebody who knows yourself to be a creative artist, in addition to being an interpretive artist. Um, there's something about knowing that yes, I can I in addition to seeing what external opportunities come my way, there's a short story that I'd be interested in having made into a play that I can direct.

[20:52] Phillipa Soo: That sort of thing also can really go a long way in shifting. It doesn't take away the pain and the grieving and the loss of having invested so much of yourself in a project that you love and having it feel like it got cut short.

[21:07] Phillipa Soo: But it does something, it totally finds a little more sense of personal agency.

[21:12] Susan Blackwell: I guess it goes with that, like what I was saying, space ritual and experiences, that sometimes space is just given to you without you asking for it.

[21:22] Phillipa Soo: Yeah.

[21:23] Susan Blackwell: That's right.

[21:24] Phillipa Soo: Like you don't have to create it for yourself.

[21:26] Susan Blackwell: I just meant a little space, not all this space.

[21:29] Phillipa Soo: Right.

[21:30] Phillipa Soo: And same thing with the other two aspects, like your experiences and the those sort of rituals that you have.

[21:35] Phillipa Soo: Like some of them find you more than you find it.

[21:38] Phillipa Soo: And so you just you work with what you're given in that in that way.

[21:43] Phillipa Soo: You know? So if you're given a lot of space, fill it. If you're given no space, fill it.

[21:49] Susan Blackwell: I appreciate your honesty about that.

[21:51] Phillipa Soo: I feel like um it's so easy. You when you were speaking earlier about um Eliza Hamilton's life, and you were saying, you know, life is challenging, life is full of challenges.

[22:02] Phillipa Soo: I know you were talking about Eliza Hamilton and other historical figures.

[22:07] Phillipa Soo: But I think it would be very easy for people to look at any of our lives, Pippa's life, Laura's life, Susan's life from the outside and say, well boy, Pippa's really gotten it all figured out.

[22:18] Phillipa Soo: And look at the amazing look in Hamilton's coming to movie theaters and and how wonderful and she's married to Steve Pasqual.

[22:24] Susan Blackwell: And he is a fucking dreamboat.

[22:27] Phillipa Soo: But he is that even there are challenges like this. There are heartbreaks, there are losses. These things befall all of our lives.

[22:36] Susan Blackwell: And it's helpful.

[22:37] Phillipa Soo: I'll just speak for myself.

[22:39] Phillipa Soo: It's helpful to hear you talk about that those challenges happen for you too, and that you're working on finding a way to shorten the lag time between the hit and or the perceived failure and the um and the laughter.

[22:56] Phillipa Soo: Yeah.

[22:57] Susan Blackwell: I thought you were gonna say the hit and the humor.

[22:59] Phillipa Soo: Exactly.

[23:00] Phillipa Soo: Can you go from there to there?

[23:02] Phillipa Soo: No, you're right about that.

[23:03] Phillipa Soo: That's exactly my my goal.

[23:04] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, I love that.

[23:05] Phillipa Soo: Yeah.

[23:06] Phillipa Soo: Um, here's a little story time for you.

[23:08] Phillipa Soo: Uh this is more about me than Pippa, but I want to hear Pippa's side of this because she was there.

[23:13] Susan Blackwell: Wait, what?

[23:13] Phillipa Soo: But trigger warning. If you're triggered by my self-involvement, there's your trigger warning.

[23:18] Phillipa Soo: So that warning should have been up top.

[23:21] Susan Blackwell: Um so Pippa and I did a pilot together a few years back.

[23:25] Phillipa Soo: Oh, yeah.

[23:26] Susan Blackwell: Uh it was called Dangerous Liaisons, and it was directed by Taylor Hackford, written by the great Richard Le Greveneth's.

[23:34] Phillipa Soo: We were I felt very fortunate to have that job.

[23:36] Susan Blackwell: And we were doing our first table read out at still Silver Cup Studios in Queens.

[23:42] Phillipa Soo: And I had been to Silver Cup Studios about I don't know, 10 million times in my life as an actor in New York.

[23:49] Susan Blackwell: And so I left with plenty of time for to get to the first table read.

[23:53] Phillipa Soo: I had time to spare, but I exited the subway at a at a different location than I typically had previously, and I became deeply deeply lost on my way to Silver Cup Studios in Queens.

[24:09] Susan Blackwell: And then I was late and lost and having a light asthma attack, and I was totally running.

[24:19] Phillipa Soo: It was like the actor's nightmare.

[24:22] Susan Blackwell: I was running through unfamiliar streets in Queens and asking every person that I came across can you tell me where Silver Cup Studio is? Do you know how to get to Silver Cup Studios?

[24:33] Phillipa Soo: And person after person, including people like traffic cops, were like, No, I don't know.

[24:38] Susan Blackwell: Traffic cops, they had no idea.

[24:39] Phillipa Soo: Nobody knew how to get there.

[24:41] Susan Blackwell: It was too truly, if you know what the actor's nightmare is, it was like I was running, literally running, not knowing if I was headed in the right direction.

[24:50] Phillipa Soo: The AD was calling me on the phone saying, Where are you? We're all waiting for you.

[24:54] Susan Blackwell: It was a fucking nightmare.

[24:58] Phillipa Soo: And by the time I find they were like, What do you see around you? What what landmarks are around you? What streets are near you? Cause they were trying to like guide me in.

[25:06] Susan Blackwell: It was a bad day.

[25:07] Phillipa Soo: It was a bad day.

[25:08] Phillipa Soo: And as I got closer, finally honing in on Silver Cup Studios, as I got closer to the building and the entrance, a team of PAs and assistant directors were flanking me like Secret Service trotting me in.

[25:22] Susan Blackwell: This is how late I was.

[25:24] Phillipa Soo: And I knew as I got closer, we were in that big room on the ground floor of Silver Cup.

[25:30] Phillipa Soo: I knew what I was about to face, and it is what I faced.

[25:33] Phillipa Soo: The door opened, and there was a giant rectangular table around which all the actors and all the creatives sat, and then on the perimeter of the room, there were more people involved in the production.

[25:45] Susan Blackwell: I'm gonna put it at like 50 to 75 people in that room.

[25:47] Phillipa Soo: It was a big room, big room full of people.

[25:50] Phillipa Soo: And I knew that they were all seated, everybody was like coats off, ready to go, waiting for me, waiting for me.

[25:56] Susan Blackwell: Ready any time.

[25:57] Phillipa Soo: It was my it was anytime as a person who does believe if you're 15 minutes early, you're on time. If you're on time, you're late. If you're late, go fuck yourself.

[26:07] Susan Blackwell: Like I was you were a mess.

[26:10] Phillipa Soo: Oh but I held this thing in my mind as the Secret Service was trotting me towards the door, which was god damn, this is hard to talk about.

[26:19] Susan Blackwell: Which was who do you want to be in this moment?

[26:23] Phillipa Soo: Who do you want to be? Susan, like pull yourself together. This is where meditation helps. Who do you want to be in this moment? So that when the door opened and all the eyes landed on me, I would have my shit even somewhere in the airspace of having my shit together.

[26:42] Phillipa Soo: From my perspective, I was like, first of all, I was just like, oh my god, this is so fun. A table read. I have no idea what I'm doing. Like, I've never done a TV pilot before. I'm like, oh, baby's first pilot.

[26:52] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, yeah.

[26:53] Phillipa Soo: And then I was like, I was like, oh, we haven't started yet. Great, I'll just get some chips.

[26:58] Susan Blackwell: And then you come through the doors and like flanked by like a posse of people.

[27:05] Phillipa Soo: So I look important.

[27:06] Susan Blackwell: So this is going good for me so far.

[27:09] Phillipa Soo: I'm pretty sure you were wearing your glasses that day.

[27:12] Susan Blackwell: Like uh eyeglasses.

[27:14] Phillipa Soo: Yes, eyeglasses.

[27:15] Phillipa Soo: That makes sense.

[27:16] Phillipa Soo: That checks out.

[27:17] Phillipa Soo: And you know, you were carrying this like juice.

[27:20] Susan Blackwell: Oh my god, I had a giant this if I couldn't look like more of a douchebag.

[27:24] Phillipa Soo: No, no, no, no. I had a giant smoothie. You you like came in, the doors opened, and like you came in and like you had your juice, and you just went like, I am so sorry for being so late. And I was like, this badass bitch, like she's late, and like she's totally with it. And like, yeah, we're waiting for her because obviously we'd wait for her because she's really important. Like, I was like, I was I was honestly, I was just like, Oh, that's how you do it. That's how you do it. Yeah, that's how you do it. I was like, I was like, Yeah, sure, sure, she's late or whatever. Like, but like you you came in, you were like, I'm so sorry, and then we just like got right to work. And like, I was like, gosh, she's so like fantastic.

I was trying to formulate that who do you want to be in this moment? And I remember like the door again. The only thing that could have made me look like more of a douche is if I had a smoothie in one hand and a tiny dog in the other hand. Like that would have been the only but because you didn't have a tiny dog in your hand that sent a different message. No, but no, literally, I'm saying to you, Susan, that like you walked in and I was like, Oh, like this is an important person. She's like so important to the fact that like we don't care that she's late. She's kind of like, we're just like waiting for her. And like she's very, she was very apologetic, but very graceful about it, and like just like went straight to work.

[28:52] Phillipa Soo: Fuck. It was one of the worst, worst professional days of my life. Total actor's nightmare. And I remember, but did I do remember having the presence of mind? Who do you want to be in this moment? To say something, something I'm gonna paraphrase, but something along the lines of, I'm so sorry I'm late. Yes, I'm not typically this person, but today it seems I am this person. Let's get to work. I think that's what I said to 100 people who were staring at me. Um, I just wanted to have had this moment to clean that up with you. Thanks. You've been great, Pippa Sue. That that was that was a that was one of those. It took a while to laugh at that. Yes. I think today might have like how many years ago was that? I finally arrived at it today.

[29:40] Phillipa Soo: Oh my God. Pippa, is there something creative that you know you need to do before you you know, pack it all and say, I'm good. Before I decide to retire to the side of the mouth, to a farm.

[29:56] Phillipa Soo: Yeah, yeah. Ecotopia. Ecotopia, I was gonna say. Um we're all moving into a biodome. Yeah, we're gonna grow our own off the grid. Yep. Um I feel like actually to to like give you like a non-answer answer. Okay, I I try try, and I know that this doesn't always happen for an artist because you have to make a living and you have and you want to make art too. But I try to do things with my life in a way that if someone who's like, you can't do this again tomorrow, I would feel good about what I've done so far. Like complete. Wow, that's a great outlook. So for such like a perfectionist post-it note kind of girl, I've learned that like setting goals for myself like that, like I gotta do this before I quit, actually like gives me so much anxiety.

[30:59] Phillipa Soo: Oh, because I am I'm also a Gemini and I have trouble finishing things. Like I I tend to like do like a lot of like I want to do this and I want to do this and I want to do this, and I have like five balls up in the air through, and I I have trouble following through, even though I have like great ideas and I love doing lots of things and I like lots of things at the same time.

[31:17] Susan Blackwell: Yeah, we can help you with that.

[31:19] Phillipa Soo: Yeah, yeah. So look, you know, the struggle is real, but but that being said, um, I think like in my life practice, I do like I try and create my art and do things so I feel like if it were ending tomorrow that I would feel really good about it.

[31:37] Susan Blackwell: Wow.

[31:38] Phillipa Soo: Fucking end. That's pretty good answer. Um, you've been in this creativity business for a minute. Give us some good creative advice.

[31:46] Phillipa Soo: Someone once told me, oftentimes when you've learned something, it feels like you've lost something.

[31:56] Susan Blackwell: What?

[31:57] Phillipa Soo: And vice versa. It's more. So maybe speaking to like the idea of failure, too, that like when you feel like you've like you've lost your way, or you've done something incorrectly, or you've, I don't know, shown a plate.

[32:16] Susan Blackwell: Throwing that back in my face.

[32:18] Phillipa Soo: I don't know. I'm just saying the that those moments where you're like, oh my gosh, I've just like lost some part of me because of this. It's also a moment for learning and reflection and information.

[32:32] Susan Blackwell: I've never say it again.

[32:33] Phillipa Soo: I've never heard it put that way before. So oftentimes when you've learned something, it feels like you've lost something.

[32:39] Susan Blackwell: Oh.

[32:40] Phillipa Soo: And I also I think that says something too like vulnerability as a performer. That, you know, when you're on stage and you feel the most uncomfortable is probably closer to a moment of genius than not.

[32:54] Susan Blackwell: I'll flip it a little bit and be like, if you feel like you have lost something, the moment of me standing there like a douche with that smoothie, having an asthma attack in front of a room full of hundred people, the closing early of a show that you love, when you have that feeling of like, oh no, that's I believe those are the moments when the greatest learning potential is in the air if you navigate it thoughtfully.

[33:22] Phillipa Soo: Yes.

[33:23] Susan Blackwell: Which is a hard thing to do.

[33:24] Phillipa Soo: It's true. It it is, but I do think there are strategies to I have to I have to employ strategies so that I don't have amnesia about it when you're in the pain of it. Uh so that I can be like, wait, no, you know what to do. First step, come straight into the present moment. Step two, breathe in the present moment.

[33:45] Susan Blackwell: Yes.

[33:46] Phillipa Soo: Step three to start asking yourself, why is this happening for me? Not why is this happening to me, but why is this happening for me? And what can I start learning from this?

[33:56] Susan Blackwell: But I love that.

[33:57] Phillipa Soo: I love say it one more time.

[33:59] Susan Blackwell: Well, I think you're right. I think it's actually interchangeable.

[34:03] Phillipa Soo: But maybe and maybe it was told to me the other way around. But oftentimes when you've learned something, it feels like you've lost something.

[34:11] Susan Blackwell: See, that to me makes me think of like, you know, when you've become enlightened about something, there are certain things now, like in my life. Now that I know this, I can no longer be doing these things or being this person in this way now that I have a new sense of awareness.

[34:31] Phillipa Soo: Yes.

[34:32] Susan Blackwell: Right.

[34:32] Phillipa Soo: Ah.

[34:33] Susan Blackwell: So, yes, in that sense, yeah.

[34:34] Phillipa Soo: Like I've learned this skill set, or I've learned something about myself, and now I have to let go of that other part of me.

[34:41] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[34:41] Phillipa Soo: That would sort of take over.

[34:43] Susan Blackwell: Yeah.

[34:43] Phillipa Soo: That is really interesting. You're deep as fuck, Philip.

[34:47] Susan Blackwell: Let's get deep again.

[34:50] Phillipa Soo: Oh good. I'm glad because then we're going to go deep right now. Cam hit it. Pippo, what's it all for?

[34:58] Phillipa Soo: I think it's all for empathy. I think the arts give you a way to experience empathy in a way that can be destructive or productive. It can shake you. Art can shake you. It can make you uncomfortable. It can also make you feel at home. It can make you feel a part of a community. But it gives you a scope of feelings and experiences and feelings about your experiences that you would not have had otherwise because of the situations of your life, where you are able to put yourself into somebody else's shoes.

[35:41] Phillipa Soo: Um further deepen the fact that we are all humans and we're all living creatures and that life is precious. And the more that we can help people find empathy and expand their empathy, I think the better that we will all be. So for me as an artist, that means put literally like I played Eliza Schuyler Hamilton, like I put myself in her shoes. Go see something that like might scare you a little bit because I also think that when we lose the ability to practice finding empathy, we also lose the ability to navigate our way through uncomfortable situations.

[36:49] Susan Blackwell: I love that.

[36:51] Phillipa Soo: I love that. That's great. Finally, who or what is sparking you these days?

[36:57] Phillipa Soo: Ooh, that's a good question. Well, I'm working on this play called Tumacho, written by Ethan Lipton. And it's a wonderful, sort of crazy town in the middle of somewhere during the day of the gunfighters. And this town is like kind of a metaphor for society as a whole. But it's a bunch of grown-ups just acting like not grown-ups. And it's sparking, yeah. And it's sparking me because I feel like I haven't gotten to do a play in a while, and getting to do comedy is really fun for me.

[37:44] Phillipa Soo: And directed by Lee Silverman, directing my life. Who just alone, like Lee Silverman just is sparking my spark files. Yeah. Because I love and and this goes to like me like wanting to direct. Like I just love watching her pick through like all of the wonderful choices that actors bring and sort of carving out the thing that we want to see. Um and she does it with such humility and humor. Yes and grace and humor. We love you, Lee. God, we love her so much. Um, but that's that's like my spark most most sparky thing right now.

[38:25] Susan Blackwell: We love it. And the opportunity for uh, you know, our listeners and all of us to get in on that spark is exciting as well.

[38:33] Phillipa Soo: Yeah, totally. We'll come see you in your spark.

[38:35] Susan Blackwell: Yeah. Come see the spark.

[38:37] Phillipa Soo: It's very sparky.

[38:39] Susan Blackwell: Oh no, it's our least favorite time.

[38:43] Phillipa Soo: It's the that's it time. Thank you so much. Pipsters.

[38:49] Susan Blackwell: The B E S T. There I said it. Thank you guys.

[38:53] Phillipa Soo: Hey, we hope that this put another bunch of sparks in your file. Listen, if there's a spark you'd like us to explore, or if you've taken a spark and you fanned it into a creative flame and you'd like to share that, won't you email us at thesparkfile at gmail.com. We will celebrate you, or you can submit it through our website, thesparkfile.com.

[39:12] Susan Blackwell: We'll even take your feedback, but you know the price of admission. First, you have to share a creative risk that you have taken recently.

[39:19] Phillipa Soo: Yes, you do.

[39:20] Susan Blackwell: And be sure to subscribe to this podcast wherever you get your podcast.

[39:23] Phillipa Soo: Subscribe.

[39:24] Susan Blackwell: Rate, five star review it. If you like this podcast, you know it would be a big help. Share it with people you love. You know when people post on social media and they're like, I need a new podcast at the Spark File.

[39:36] Phillipa Soo: If you didn't like it, Pippo, what do you say to your critics?

[39:39] Phillipa Soo: I would say oftentimes when it feels like you've lost something.

[39:48] Phillipa Soo: You've learned something. And maybe you've learned that you want to listen to something else. But I'll tell you what, you're losing out.

[39:56] Susan Blackwell: Whoa.

[39:56] Phillipa Soo: Now you've really lost something.

[39:58] Susan Blackwell: Whoa.

[39:59] Phillipa Soo: Take it from Pippa Sue. If something tickles your fancy and gets your creative juices flowing, we are writing you a forever permission slip to make that thing that's been knocking at your door.

[40:11] Phillipa Soo: It's your turn to take a spark and fan it into a flame.

[40:15] Susan Blackwell: You gotta learn it.

[40:16] Phillipa Soo: You gotta set fire to a letter and turn it.

[40:19] Susan Blackwell: You gotta do like Pippa Hamilton Sue did and sing songs while you fucking burn it.

[40:24] Phillipa Soo: You gotta take it and make it.

[40:28] Susan Blackwell: Bang Bang.

[40:31] Phillipa Soo: When I bump into something that inspires me, I dump it in my spark fire.

[40:41] Phillipa Soo: Could be something that I wanna make or how I wanna be.

[40:46] Phillipa Soo: I pump it in the spark fires.

[40:51] Phillipa Soo: I jump into my spark five.

[40:54] Susan Blackwell: Spark fires.

[40:55] Phillipa Soo: Let's open up the spark fire.