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[0:00] Mike Abrams: There's a cat over here. There's a cat over there. And the wrong one died. And the wrong one died.

[0:15] Mike Abrams: Welcome to The Wrong Cat Died, the podcast breakdown of Catsastrophe. I'm your host, Mike Abrams. And welcome to an all-new episode of The Theatre Podcast. I'm your host, Alan Seales.

[0:24] Alan Seales: We are doing a Broadway Podcast Network crossover today. We had the pleasure of seeing Cats: The Jellicle Ball at the Perlman Performing Arts Center tonight. We saw the second preview, and this will be coming out after they have officially opened.

[0:42] Alan Seales: And what an incredible show. So I'm going to kick us off here. I want to ask you, is this what you expected?

[0:47] Mike Abrams: No, it was not what I expected in a very good way, because I did not know the extent of the ballroom dancing, how it was integrated into the show. Because when you say ballroom, that conjures up a couple different types of dancing styles. This was so far beyond my expectations. Unbelievable. So having talked to the directors, the musical director, and had the chance to kind of hear the thought behind it, I had a little bit of a better idea going in. But it still exceeded my expectations by so much. The energy in the crowd is unbelievable. It is so much fun of a crowd.

[1:31] Alan Seales: And they say that in the intro, too. And if we didn't imply this already, warning, spoilers. And so it starts out ultimately just getting the crowd involved. They're like, you're part of the dance. You're part of the party. Talk along with us. Shout it out. So they encourage you from the beginning to just express yourself and yell through the whole thing. And so the music never stops because this is Cats. So you're always able to add on to the noise.

[1:58] Mike Abrams: Yeah. So let's give a quick rundown of kind of what to expect. So you call out a spoiler alert, which is good because we're going to talk a little bit about this particular production, but also it's at its core Cats, which is, we can't spoil. It's been around for way too long for us to have an alert on that for at this point. But they do start that way and you are getting a very traditional storytelling of Cats. It runs through the music in order with the same kind of musical numbers, but with this other interpretation through it. Because they're not in Cats. It's not the traditional dance number you want, but from a poetry storytelling perspective, it's the same. It's maybe clear because the ballroom gives, I think, a little bit more of a clear picture into what the poems try to weave together with the competition aspect.

[2:51] Alan Seales: That's a really good point because that's something that I found was very, very helpful. And we've always joked about it for years on your podcast, The Wrong Cat Died, that it's, you know, American Idol meets X Factor meets some sort of thing where people actually die. And so it's this unspoken competition. And then tonight they actually made it a competition by having all of the characters, you know, when they're singing, they always end it with a dance-off. And the whole thing just goes and goes being judged by none other than Old Deuteronomy, who is Andre the Mother Flippin' Shields.

[3:26] Mike Abrams: And there were two special guests. I don't know if we have who they were, but there were guest judges too in the beginning because Old Deuteronomy doesn't come out, you know, in the regular story and the normal original Cats either until partway through Act One. So there were some other guest judges that were having a blast.

[3:44] Alan Seales: I thought they were just audience members.

[3:47] Mike Abrams: I think they are ballroom. I think they are, if you are a ballroom knowledgeable, which neither of us are, that I think it was people from the ballroom culture because there was, I wish I took a picture of it, there was an announcement outside that had two pictures and two names and some background on them. So I think they have different ballroom judges every night.

[4:10] Alan Seales: Oh, so every single night.

[4:11] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[4:12] Alan Seales: That's really cool. So I guess that's a celebrity aspect that they're pulling all that in.

[4:17] Mike Abrams: Yeah. No, they were having a blast. I actually thought they were cast members at first because one of the two of them was so animated and so excited that I thought she was like, she's got to be a character right now.

[4:28] Alan Seales: They were there. I think they were brought for this particular reason.

[4:31] Mike Abrams: That's funny. Okay. I want to talk about one thing in particular that I thought was, I was interested in really a lot because there was never a picture or never really an idea, which was the set because we got a runway. We had tables kind of cabaret style in the front. We had seats on the side, seats in the back. There was a balcony, but there was stuff going on around everywhere.

[4:56] Alan Seales: This was kind of a good combination of Here Lies Love meets cabaret.

[5:02] Mike Abrams: Yeah. So it was in, it's a thrust stage essentially because everyone's sat in a U around this runway. And then everyone, like we were sitting at one of one, two, three, six, eight cabaret tables. Maybe not even probably like five or six at most.

[5:19] Alan Seales: I think it was six at most. Yeah. So we were literally right there at the tip of the table in this cabaret table and all of the, the whole cast is coming down the steps next to us and they're looking right at us and dancing behind us, singing in our faces. And at the end we got a nice shot of Andre De Shields' butt.

[5:35] Mike Abrams: Yeah.

[5:36] Alan Seales: Right in our face.

[5:37] Mike Abrams: Right in our face for the very, very entire bows. That was such an aspect that like, I loved seeing Cats the musical was the junkyard feel. It's like you felt like you walked into that experience. And here I felt like I walked into a ballroom. There's a DJ up, there's the disco ball, which was a really cool interpretation of the Jellicle Moon. There's the, the whole thing is right in front of you, but also it's the, the performers are, are utilizing the whole space. So no matter where you are sitting, you are going to have a cat probably around you, someone dancing by you and just this like visceral experience with it.

[6:13] Alan Seales: So, so, so in front of you, the thing about this show is whether you love or hate Cats. And I do have a message, which I can read here from someone who hated Cats and went to the first preview and then sent me like, they don't like Cats. They're, they're very clear that they're not a Cats fan. And this was their message. Well, Cats was everything. I really was overwhelmed with how much I love theater and feel the theater magic. And I cried a ton. This is the first time in a long time that a show has got that out of me. I'm not even crying at anything sad. And this is again, someone who hates Cats. Like they, they say very clearly a few messages later and I don't like Cats. And this is still, I felt.

And I think that's something that's really cool about the show is because Cats is polarizing as a musical and this version, while as someone like me who knows Cats and very little about ballroom and too much about Cats, I got to like watch a version of Cats that was like, I, it's still, it's still held true. And there were some really cool parts, which we can get into about the relationships that they played and like all that stuff that if you are a Cats super fan, you're going to love some of the different things, the tweaks that they do that still really pays homage to the original. But if you're a Cats hater and it's because he didn't like it because there's no story or, you know, whatever it is, there's such energy in that room that there's no way you're not going to get chills from everyone around you just having the most fun time of their life.

[7:36] Mike Abrams: It is a very interactive show, energy-wise. You're right. You're absolutely right. And we'll tell you, your friend who sent the text, who I know is Dame Judi Dench, don't lie.

[7:44] Alan Seales: It's James Corden.

[7:46] Mike Abrams: James Corden, Taylor Swift. I know you're texting all these people. They're collectively sending you chills.

[7:50] Alan Seales: Yeah. So the energy in the room is, is infectious and it, and maybe it was where we're sitting or again, maybe it was the sound designer, just the way that everything was, but we were like right there in the damn center of the space. I felt like I was on stage and everything, the energy, the music and everything was pointing to the center at us. And, and you're right, if you don't like Cats, then this is just a show that stands alone with some good music because I, you know, the story, what story of Cats? There is no story of Cats, but the music itself, I'm not going to lie. I, that, that has a special place. I love the music.

[8:25] Mike Abrams: The music's great. And this adds a little story because you get the ballroom competitions within each segment of the show. And because of that, you get a little bit more to the story, maybe than you didn't get otherwise. It's a different interpretation because again, like most of my show is about the relationships and the backstories and you could see they played into a lot of those. There were certain things that Mungojerrie and Rumpelteazer were doing, and there were moments like, there is for the Tugger Mistoffelees. If you are, if you are in on that bandwagon, they, they lean into that relationship.

[9:00] Alan Seales: Tugstoffelees.

[9:00] Mike Abrams: Tugstoffelees is, is being amplified for, for that, which is great because that's something that they lean into. But there were also the way they use Cillabub throughout the show, the way they do a bunch of the characters, even Bustopher Jones, who is pretty, pretty universally panned by the Cats fandom. That, that particular number and the performer, they were so good.

[9:25] Alan Seales: Yeah. And played by Nora Schell, who I believe is, uses they, them pronouns. But what was very cool in the show was instead of seeing Bustopher Jones, he, he, he, they were seeing Bustopher Jones, they, they, they. And it, I just, I love, I love that they've made, you know, they've made that little tweak that maybe you don't even catch. I don't even think you caught it in the moment, but I-

[9:46] Alan Seales: I didn't, but then I caught it again with Skimbleshanks because-

[9:48] Mike Abrams: I don't think the same thing-

[9:49] Alan Seales: They said it was for she, because Skimbleshanks played by Emma Sophia, who, former guest, and is, oh, what, it's so much fun. I love Emma. Emma was one of my favorite stories I've ever heard about somebody who didn't put Cats. And so for her to get her moment to be able to do this, like I, I, when I saw her in the casting list, I immediately messaged her and I was so glad she had her full circle moment of getting cast in Cats now. And they did the same thing with Skimbleshanks and they said, they said she for her.

[10:17] Mike Abrams: Yeah. Skimble, Skimble was, she did a female Skimbleshanks as an MTA operator and it was just, it was so fun. Okay. Let's talk about the choreography for a second too, because this is just nonstop dancing. I mean, Cats is always nonstop dancing, but normally it's much more traditional and ballet and what you might think of traditional ballroom, maybe a little bit, but no, this is modern, as modern as it could be with so many callbacks and, and shout outs to the pop culture moments. It is, again, I just enjoyed every single thing because every number was so different and it was actually, I actually don't want to spoil it, but what happened when old dude got taken away, I thought was a little bit, was very, very good choice to call that out.

[11:06] Alan Seales: Yeah. I mean, I think if you haven't listened to On the Wrong Cat Died, we did an episode with the two directors and the musical director. So Jalen and Bill, the directors explained a lot about that and talked about how they, they hired two choreographers from the ballroom scene. So Arturo and Omri are, are really, really, really good at what they do. And you could see that what they infused into it, but also where they kind of paid some homage to what is Cats still, like there were moments where, you know, they're not in cat. I think it's important that they're not dressed up in, in cats with tails. They are dressed up as humans, um, in the ballrooms, in the ballroom scene, they have some cats motions. They kind of kept some pieces of it, but they did a really good job of blurring those two lines of, of mixing the worlds. And so I think if you are a Gillian Lynn, you know, truest, or even a

[11:58] Alan Seales: Andy Blankenbueher, like you like the modern new version. You're still going to see pieces of that, but you're going to get this ballroom part that's just so fun.

[12:05] Alan Seales: It really is fun. I mean, I just want to give shout outs to all of the cast. I mean, Antoine Hopper is Macavity. He most recently on Broadway in A Strange Loop. Shireen Pimentel is Jelly Lorem. I mean, yeah, this cast is so freaking good. Baby is Victoria. Oh, the other study for Skimbleshanks too. But yeah, the white cat, Victoria. And what else did she do? What was she representing as the black cat? She switched costumes. So she switched costumes because what they did, they did make some people around where, you know, like Emma played, I think, Cassandra and Skimbleshanks, right? So she was in the beginning in Act One, she was bouncing around with Jenny Anydots and really leaning into that and then came out as the MTA Skimbleshanks in Act Two.

But they also were doing, because they did in their competitions, this is going to be a really bad description of ballroom scenes because as someone who doesn't know it, but the way it was explained to me is that there are houses, which is the groups are together. It's like a tribe almost, which is why, again, it fits such a good Cats kind of theme. But they do these kind of one V one, like dance-offs essentially on the catwalk. And so there would be a, I think the very first one was, there was at one point, I'm not sure if it was exactly first, but one of them was like pretty boy versus like an American boy and something. And then there was like the duos and tag team. And then the one that you were talking about was the glamour, which was cool because we got the glamour cat into it, but they were dressed up in like Prada and it was like during the Macavity kind of number.

[13:46] Alan Seales: Right, right, right. Yeah. And let's go back to Jenny Anydots for a second, played by Xavier Reyes. I don't know what pronouns Xavier uses, but Xavier presents as a man, but is very much dressed completely in drag for Jenny Anydots. He just played it and sung it so well. And that was, I think, let's talk about that particular part, because Jenny Anydots is the first one that quote unquote wins their battle. Because they're using actual trophies.

[14:14] Alan Seales: Yes, they have actual trophies. And so Jenny Anydots won, or I guess Cassandra won for Jenny Anydots, but they go up and the judges, yeah, the judges go up and hand a trophy. And I said to Jaylen after the show, I said, this is the first time I got to watch another cat that's not Grisabella win. And it made me so happy because that's what I've been fighting for. So they gave me at least moments. There's still, you know, there's still Grisabella goes to the heavy side layer, spoiler alert, but I got some moments where Tugger got to win, Cassandra got to win, Bustopher Jones got to win, Macavity got to win. I love, I will clarify if you don't want to know, one of my favorite tweaks was Mungojerrie and Rumpleteazer did not win, but then they steal the trophy, which is the best on-brand thing that they could have done. Because I was like, oh, they lost? Why'd they lose? And then they tell you, I was like, oh, that's so good.

[15:12] Alan Seales: They still get the trophy.

[15:13] Alan Seales: Right. Right. Yeah. I'm looking through the rest here. I mean, Chastity Moore, who played Grisabella too, she's like, they played that in such a subtle take on Grisabella. And the fact that like, you know, she's looking back at the glory days of when she used to walk the runway and be able to compete and, you know, struggling to get up the steps. And she has like this old ratty trophy that's probably, you know, 50 years old or whatever it is. But yeah, just the way they tied it all together in the actual competition format is, it's just brilliant. I can't say enough nice things about this. I just love it. And Temptress is a very well-known ballroom icon. She's well-known. So that was kind of like a very smart use of like, let's blur these two worlds together.

And she can sing. I mean, she really sang. I mean, she got to be able to do memory. That's the iconic number everyone knows, and she really belted it out. One person we haven't talked about, which floored me, because it's also a very, this is a difference from, I think, what you expect, but Robert Silkmason as Mistoffelees. Robert Silkmason as Magical Mr. Mistoffelees deserves all the shout outs because, I mean, they can do 180 degree split and the pirouettes. And like, I think there's actual Juilliard ballet.

[16:40] Alan Seales: Yeah. Went to the Juilliard School of Dance. So they are Juilliard-trained ballet dancer. The thing that threw me off, and maybe part of it was heels, is Mistoffelees is usually this short, tiny cat.

[16:50] Alan Seales: Kind of nerdy magician.

[16:51] Alan Seales: Yeah. Silk is like 6'5".

[16:55] Alan Seales: At least.

[16:56] Alan Seales: I mean, so tall.

[16:57] Alan Seales: All legs.

[16:58] Alan Seales: All legs, but utilizes that and makes this like, has so much fun with the magic. The magic was hilarious. There was a little, some of it was like right in my face at one point. But it was like, their dancing was so strong. And being able to do a version of the turns, being able to do all the splits and all the different leg lifts and everything to kind of bring that together as the one of the main dancing numbers. And I thought it was really smart that they picked, I don't know if this was intentional, but a lot of the heavy dance numbers were the ballroom people. And so you got really, really strong of that ballroom aspect.

[17:39] Alan Seales: Yeah. There was so much of just hardcore ballroom dancing that they kept coming back to. And again, everything, the energy just pointed at us. It was an experience. I mean, I was blinded by stage lights.

[17:53] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[17:53] Alan Seales: Because we were on stage.

[17:54] Alan Seales: I thought at one point I was going to be the Jellicle Choice.

[17:58] Alan Seales: I thought I was going to have my dream come true. Because we were in the show. We felt so in the show, was so blinded. And there was one point, I was like, this is what they feel like when they're singing their big solos. Like, ah, I'm going to pretend just for a half a second.

[18:13] Alan Seales: I love it too, because if you didn't see on social media, which I believe will be posted at that point, I was wearing a shirt that has the 2019 Dame Judi Dench. Dame Judi Dench. That says, you'll never be my Jellicle Choice.

[18:29] Alan Seales: Nice pixelated Dame Judi Dench.

[18:31] Alan Seales: It was Dame Judi Dench. It was the only way you could sell it on the internet without getting in trouble, is my assumption. But because of that being my shirt and where I was sitting, every time the spotlight hit me, I'm like, we knew somebody sitting on the other side of us. I was like, she's going to have to see this, my shirt behind Andre De Shields.

[18:50] Alan Seales: Oh yeah. So Andre and the judges were behind us. We were between the judges and the runway. It was the perfect spot. It was so cool to hear everyone literally singing behind us. You could hear the individual voices behind us while hearing the mix and everybody else coming from the speakers above us. It was such a surreal experience.

[19:12] Alan Seales: So we got to talk about Gus.

[19:14] Alan Seales: Gus Junior LaBeija. This dude came out and commanded the respect of the audience. Let me just tell you, there was a guy about four or five seats down from us who was loving everything about the show. I mean, just in his element. And the minute Gus came out, he stood and he gave a standing ovation before he said a single word.

[19:39] Alan Seales: He was standing ovation for the whole song.

[19:42] Alan Seales: Yeah. And I mean, this is a legend in the ballroom scene, it seems like. And he has a presence, a stage presence like nobody you've ever seen.

[19:51] Alan Seales: Yeah. Yeah. He barely moved and commanded. It's one of those King George from Hamilton subtle performances that it steals the show by barely moving. But he's also, because of his history and his status as an icon, he is Gus. He's the epitome of it. And so it was just perfect. And the Jelly Lorem could sing.

[20:20] Alan Seales: Yeah. Jelly Lorem, played by Shireen Pimentel. She can just... I think she's the most, I would say, experienced Broadway person. She was Young Nala in Lion King on Broadway, Guinevere in Camelot at the Muni. I mean, she's been in the Encores! production of Into the Woods as Rapunzel. I think she's probably followed the most Broadway-focused career track out of everyone so far, except maybe, or in addition to Antoine Hopper from A Strange Loop, who was Macavity.

[20:49] Alan Seales: And Andre De Shields.

[20:50] Alan Seales: Well, okay. Andre De Shields.

[20:52] Alan Seales: Andre Mother Flippin' De Shields is in his own category.

[21:00] Alan Seales: Yeah, for sure. Like, when he got to the throne, and he's got this amazing outfit as old dude. Got to the throne before he even sat down, just took his moment and acknowledged everyone in the crowd. The amount of respect the community has for this guy is palpable. It was so cool to experience that, literally feeling like I was on stage with him.

[21:29] Alan Seales: And feeling like old Deuteronomy, like he's commanding the whole tribe.

[21:33] Alan Seales: Yeah. I love that they handed him these 10 commandments, and it had the Jellicle Moon in different stages, and they lit up, and he was just showing the crowd in slow motion. So there were a lot of little Easter eggs like that, that I feel like I need to go back 20 more times to just catch all the different people and sit in different seats to see the different angles, because there's stuff behind us happening all the time. There was a whole bar behind us. I don't know if you noticed that. Over your right shoulder, there was a bar.

[21:58] Alan Seales: Yeah.

[21:58] Alan Seales: And they were drinking in parts. They were handing out drinks to the people in the front row at parts. I think it was supposed to be one of Bustopher Jones' clubs.

[22:08] Alan Seales: Oh, yeah.

[22:08] Alan Seales: But there were just so many things happening, and everything was so thoughtful. Everything had a moment that, for the Cats superfans, tied into either that character, or that relationship, or that part of the Jellicle ball that you're supposed to know.

[22:22] Alan Seales: Yeah. We're going to take a quick break, and then we'll be back for more of The Wrong Cat Died. I do want to cover one thing that we haven't talked about, that is, I was very curious to see how they did, because I knew, having talked to Joe and Bill, that I was going to get a ballroom kind of competition, but I didn't know how they were going to do the Jellicle ball, because the Jellicle ball doesn't end Act One, but it's really close to ending Act One, because then Grizabella comes out. But this is a, for anybody who's ever done Cats, everyone who talks about it, it's a 11 or 12, 13-minute just cardio workout, just an absurdly difficult dance that has different little sections that each do.

And it's all dance, and it's the Victoria Lift, and all that stuff with it. And I was really curious how you do that in the ballroom setting. And they were so smart, because they got through that number before, and then they started the music, and it's like, oh, they're about to get into it. And they infused the ballroom sections, but used the catwalk to have different parts do different parts of the ball. And you saw a little bit of that traditional Cats that you would expect, and then you saw the ballroom, and it fused in this whole thing. And being so close, I was like, they are also getting their Cats Jellicle ball experience, because they looked wiped at the end of it. They got to do that moment that everyone who does Cats knows about. Yeah, that was something else, too, that I loved about being so close, is some of the cats would come and just sit down at the steps next to us. It was like...

[23:55] Alan Seales: Welcome back to The Theatre Podcast. This is a bonus episode where we're recapping "CATS: The Jellicle Ball." I just saw the preview, and I have to say, it was an incredible experience.

[24:25] Alan Seales: The energy in the theater was electric. The production really captures the essence of the original while bringing something fresh and exciting to the table.

[24:55] Alan Seales: One of the standout elements for me was the choreography. It was so dynamic and engaging, making every moment on stage feel alive.

[25:25] Alan Seales: The performers were absolutely phenomenal. Their commitment to their characters and the overall story really drew me in.

[25:45] Alan Seales: I loved how the production spans across different audiences. Whether you're a die-hard theater fan or just someone looking for a fun night out, there's something for everyone.

[25:55] Alan Seales: The set design was also impressive. It created a whimsical atmosphere that perfectly complemented the story.

[26:05] Alan Seales: I found myself completely immersed in the world of the Jellicles. The music, the visuals, everything worked together beautifully.

[26:25] Alan Seales: And let's not forget about the costumes! They were vibrant and imaginative, really bringing the characters to life.

[26:45] Alan Seales: Overall, I think this production is a must-see. It’s a celebration of creativity and talent that you won't want to miss.

[27:05] Alan Seales: If you’re considering going, I highly recommend it. You’ll leave the theater with a smile on your face.

[27:15] Alan Seales: I can't wait to hear what others think after they see it. It's definitely going to spark some conversations.

[27:35] Alan Seales: So, if you’re in the area, make sure to grab your tickets. This show is only running for a limited time.

[27:45] Alan Seales: I’m really excited for everyone to experience this production. It’s truly a Jellicle masterpiece.

[28:15] Alan Seales: And remember, whether you're a fan of the original "CATS" or new to the story, there's something here for everyone.

[28:35] Alan Seales: I think the production team has done an outstanding job, and I can’t wait to see how audiences react.

[28:55] Alan Seales: So, be sure to check it out and let us know your thoughts!

[29:15] Alan Seales: You can find more information and get your tickets at pacnyc.org.

[29:35] Alan Seales: Thanks for tuning in to this bonus recap. I hope you enjoy "CATS: The Jellicle Ball" as much as I did!

[29:55] Alan Seales: Until next time, keep supporting live theater and all the incredible talent behind it.

[30:15] Alan Seales: This has been The Theatre Podcast.

[30:35] Alan Seales: I look forward to sharing more insights and conversations with you in future episodes.

[30:55] Alan Seales: Take care, everyone!

[31:15] Alan Seales: And remember, the magic of theater is always waiting for you.

[31:35] Alan Seales: See you next time!

[31:55] Alan Seales: Bye for now!

[32:05] Alan Seales: Enjoy the show!

[32:25] Alan Seales: And don’t forget to follow us on social media for updates.

[32:45] Alan Seales: We love hearing from our listeners!

[33:05] Alan Seales: Thanks again for listening!

[33:25] Alan Seales: Until next time, keep the theater spirit alive!

[33:45] Alan Seales: Bye!

[34:05] Alan Seales: See you soon!

[34:25] Alan Seales: And break a leg out there!

[34:45] Alan Seales: Cheers!

[35:05] Alan Seales: Goodbye!

[35:25] Alan Seales: Thanks for joining us!